User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2007 12 20

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Transcript of Andrew Linden's office hours:

[17:01] Draken Destiny: lol nice boots axl
[17:01] Axl Ronmark: thanks man
[17:01] Teravus Ousley: Greetings Andrew
[17:01] Kitto Flora: Hello Andrew
[17:01] Chair: Press Page Up to move chair up, or Page Down to move chair down
[17:01] Arawn Spitteler grovels before an actual instantiation.
[17:02] Andrew Linden: Hi everybody.
[17:02] Draken Destiny: Evening
[17:03] Andrew Linden: First thing, and I'll try to re-iterate this at the end of the meeting: I won't be holding office hours on the 25th (Chrismas). I'll be offline all day.
[17:03] Arawn Spitteler: If this gets boring for anyone, there's a party in Spirit City, with too many particles
[17:03] Teravus Ousley: hehe, and rightly so
[17:03] Kitto Flora: How can anyone be offline all day?
[17:03] Andrew Linden: However, I'm scheduled for office hours on New Years day, and I'm going to try to attend those.
[17:04] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
[17:04] Andrew Linden: From home. I won't be having a hangover.
[17:04] Teravus Ousley: hehe
[17:04] Arawn Spitteler: It'll be Christmas, so bring your kids to Wish Isle, and ride the train
[17:04] Andrew Linden: The update on the Havok4 project will be very brief... not much has changed there.
[17:05] Andrew Linden: I'm still working on some mass properties utilities, but I'm done with my unit tests
[17:05] Andrew Linden: and so I'll be trying to actually use it next.
[17:05] Andrew Linden: No major bug fixes announcements to make. Hopefully I'll spend what remains of next week on vehicles.
[17:06] Kitto Flora: I posted 2 new on Jira
[17:06] Kitto Flora: to add to Andrew's pile :)
[17:06] Teravus Ousley: heh
[17:06] Rex Cronon: adrew, did u say during last office hours that there are problems with computing the mass of a hallow sphere?
[17:06] Rex Cronon: hi sidewinder
[17:07] Sidewinder Linden: hi rex
[17:07] Rex Cronon: hi
[17:07] Teravus Ousley: well, I've got two questions :D.. what's the internal frame rate, havok is running at? (I know ODE only starts to collide reliably at 200fps or greater.) and What tells the client to stop flying when they collide with prim and have the down arrow pressed?
[17:07] Andrew Linden: Yes Rex. On Havok4 (and probably Havok1, I haven't investigated) the mass for a 95% hollow sphere is more than a 20% hollow sphere
[17:08] Andrew Linden: Both Havok1 and Haovk4 run at 45 fps
[17:08] Teravus Ousley: better collision solvers :D
[17:08] Andrew Linden: The avatar has a rigidbody -- a collision proxy in the physics engine
[17:08] Kitto Flora keeps an eye on the tagger.
[17:08] Rex Cronon: related to that, a sphere that is hollow at 1% acts like one that isn't hollow
[17:09] Andrew Linden: when you are holding the forward key down it is translated as a forward impulse on that body
[17:09] Andrew Linden: when you collide against an obstacle, then the forward impulse will balance out with the collision dynamics
[17:09] Andrew Linden: Rex, are you talking about 1% hollow on Haovk4?
[17:09] Rex Cronon: yes
[17:10] Rex Cronon: if is at 2% u can walk inside, but at 1% u r pushed out
[17:10] Teravus Ousley: :D One thing I noticed in OpenSim, is it doesn't cause the avatar to stop flying when they 'land' on prim... so there's something that I'm missing there. MeanObjectCollision packets? :P hehe
[17:10] Andrew Linden: Well... the 1% hollow is inside, and shouldn't affect the collision dynamics much. It turns out that we cheat on the shape generation for some objects in Havok4.
[17:10] Andrew Linden: Rex, are you playing with a 1% hollow megaprim?
[17:11] Rex Cronon: no, a normal 10m sphere
[17:11] Andrew Linden: You shouldn't be able to fit inside a 1% hollow 10^3 sphere, right?
[17:11] Rex Cronon: yes
[17:12] Andrew Linden: Right, so anyway... for very small hollow yes, we approximate the object as non-hollow.
[17:12] Andrew Linden: This will break some content, I suppose.
[17:12] Andrew Linden: Rex, were you just playing around? Or did you notice some really cool stuff breaking because of this?
[17:13] Rex Cronon: in havok1, as u can see i can walk inside it
[17:13] Brash Jump Kick: activated.
[17:13] Rex Cronon: on havok4 i can't if is 1% hollow
[17:14] Teravus Ousley: heh, other people can rez inside it too :P
[17:14] Arawn Spitteler: 1% or 99%?
[17:14] Rex Cronon: it says hollow 1, oh, i guess is 99% empty inside
[17:14] Andrew Linden: hang on just a min...
[17:15] Kitto Flora: pLEASE TINT THE INSIDE SURFACE
[17:15] Kitto Flora: Eeeek
[17:15] Arawn Spitteler wonders how he got 99%
[17:16] Rex Cronon: i thought it might be related to havok4 giving the incorrect mass for hollow spheres
[17:16] Andrew Linden: sorry, was bothered in RL
[17:16] Andrew Linden: Back now...
[17:16] Teravus Ousley: any tips on the avatar landing? I figured I'd ask you first.. since you're the avatar control guy :D
[17:17] Andrew Linden: Ok Rex, as to the 1% hollow sphere...
[17:17] Rex Cronon: i think is 99% empty
[17:17] Andrew Linden: In Havok1 (and Havok4 too) hollow spheres are made from "Mesh Shape" objects
[17:18] Andrew Linden: ... sorta like triangle soup, but wrapped in a MOPP (memory optimized partial polytrope) or something like that
[17:18] Andrew Linden: so... you only collide with the mesh surface... not the interior of the object
[17:19] Ryozu Yamamoto: Hmmm?
[17:19] Andrew Linden: in Havok4 we cheat sometimes and say... if it is only 1% hollow that couldn't possibly change the collision behavior... let's just approximate that with a non-hollow equivalent
[17:19] Andrew Linden: so a 1% hollow sphere in Havok4 is an implicit sphere, not a mesh
[17:19] Andrew Linden: which is why you get pushed out
[17:19] Rex Cronon: same thing applies to torus?
[17:20] Andrew Linden: No, torus is a mesh by default, because it is concave by default
[17:20] Andrew Linden: However... I still think that a 1% hollow torus is not set hollow at all
[17:20] Andrew Linden: but that just means there is no central mesh along the torus axis for 1%
[17:21] Rex Cronon: ok, i think i got it. i though it was a bug
[17:21] Andrew Linden: Axl, could you please play with your DragonBall-Z effects somewhere else?
[17:21] Andrew Linden: Thanks.
[17:22] Andrew Linden: I have plans in the distant future to eliminate all mesh shapes entirely
[17:22] Sidewinder Linden: axl... please stop or you will be removed...
[17:22] Andrew Linden: I'll be replacing a concave mesh with a collection of convex boxes, trapezoids, and spheres
[17:23] Rex Cronon: aren't sculpties also using meshes?(they r a torus, no?)
[17:23] Andrew Linden: Sculpties use a torus for their collision proxy, unfortunately
[17:23] Andrew Linden: it has nothing to do with their real shape
[17:24] Andrew Linden: I think Qarl Linden felt that a torus approximated the shape of a default apple sculptie the best so went with that.
[17:24] Andrew Linden: Sculpties won't be having any decent collidable approximations for a while
[17:25] Kitto Flora: Any comments or questions on SVC-1093?
[17:25] Andrew Linden: Lemme bring it up...
[17:27] Andrew Linden: Hrm...
[17:27] Andrew Linden: Kitto, SVC-1093 will have to be fixed.
[17:27] Kitto Flora: That would be nice
[17:28] Andrew Linden: I'll have to use some tight bounding box, or sphere to check the underground penetraion.
[17:28] Andrew Linden: I don't think it is a difficult bug to fix
[17:28] ameronkinsl Odriscoll: there having a meeting
[17:28] Andrew Linden: however... there is a getBoundingSphere() method in our internal code that I don't trust... it returns a radius too big by 2. The diameter instead of the radius, I guess.
[17:29] Andrew Linden: I need to track that down too.
[17:29] Kitto Flora: OK. I could work around 1093 by editing the ground
[17:29] Kitto Flora: so I can replace the missing track
[17:30] Kitto Flora: But its all a bit moot, because of SVC-1094
[17:30] Andrew Linden: Hrm... I might be able to use CenterOfMass to fix SVC-1093 pretty easily.
[17:30] Andrew Linden: Once I have my mass properties utils in place that should work fine.
[17:31] Andrew Linden: Well... maybe not...
[17:31] Andrew Linden: you could make a rather big object that wraps tightly around a central terrain spike
[17:31] Kitto Flora: One good thing I can say is that the Swan - which used to lean, does not lean in H4 Wish sim. Looks good!
[17:31] Andrew Linden: used to lean in old H4 builds, right?
[17:31] Kitto Flora: Yes
[17:32] Kitto Flora: x-axis rotation
[17:32] Andrew Linden: Good, glad to hear that is fixed. I was a little worried about reports about that after I had fixed the center-of-mass bug.
[17:32] Kitto Flora: Dunno what fixed it, but the one ride I did on the swan it looks just great
[17:33] Andrew Linden: Teravus, were you the one with the non-havok related questions at the end of last meeting?
[17:33] Teravus Ousley: I wasn't at the last meeting.. I was at a few meetings about a month ago
[17:34] Andrew Linden: oops, sorry. I mant Arawn. The avatar name bubbles had sorted wrong.
[17:34] Teravus Ousley: just before the time change :D
[17:34] Arawn Spitteler: I forget what questions I had at the time. Currently trying to make a physical object, but run-time-permissions isn't being called.
[17:34] Andrew Linden: Maybe I'm getting my office hour memories mixed up.
[17:35] Andrew Linden: Sidewinder, did you have some announcements to make?
[17:35] Arawn Spitteler: I was wondering if there's a sandbox for sim crossings
[17:35] Sidewinder Linden: sry - phone... will brb...
[17:35] Andrew Linden: Arawn, we have some H4-H1 borders in the preview I think.
[17:36] Andrew Linden: Don't think we have any here yet.
[17:36] Arawn Spitteler: I wanted to try building a road across.
[17:36] Ryozu Yamamoto: I have a question whenever there's time, Andrew
[17:36] Wind Key 2 ~ GAMBIT: BAM~!
[17:36] Rex Cronon: btw, going from havok4 to havok1, a few times seems to mess with attachments(i mean their scripts)
[17:36] Andrew Linden: Now is a good time Ryozu. I don't have anything else on my agenda.
[17:37] Kitto Flora: Theres Crash Me and Crash Me1 sims on main grid that are h4, buildable and adjacent
[17:37] Ryozu Yamamoto: Alright, over the last couple days, I've started hearing rumors of a bug capable of breaking all links of an object
[17:37] Teravus Ousley also wonders about the 'telling the client to stop flying'.. when you have time.
[17:37] Kitto Flora: In Beta, there the railroad track crossing H4/H4 - that works ok
[17:38] Ryozu Yamamoto: Dan may have mentioned it to you, as he was there at the time it was described... I can't repro it myself
[17:38] Ryozu Yamamoto: Wondering if you knew much/anything about it?
[17:38] Arawn Spitteler: We can rez on the tracks?
[17:38] Andrew Linden: Ryozu, yes I've also heard such rumors. Dan Linden is working on describing a repro for that one.
[17:38] Andrew Linden: He says it is H4 specific.
[17:38] Kitto Flora: Arawan: Yes
[17:38] Ryozu Yamamoto: Ah, alright. =)
[17:38] Ryozu Yamamoto: It's not entirely h4 specific
[17:39] Ryozu Yamamoto: It does very strange things to the heighfield in H1
[17:39] Andrew Linden: Oh really? Whew! Good.
[17:39] Ryozu Yamamoto: Well, what little bit of it I could get to work
[17:39] Ryozu Yamamoto: Warkirby has a weapon based on a similar concept
[17:39] Ryozu Yamamoto: When used on me, while sitting on an object, touching the ground
[17:39] Ryozu Yamamoto: Makes the ground go... strange
[17:40] Andrew Linden: Hopefully Dan will shift that bug over to #blacklight, the studio devoted to high priority issues.
[17:40] Ryozu Yamamoto: As if the ground becomes oddly phantom
[17:40] Ryozu Yamamoto: Keep falling into the ground, then pushed out, continuously
[17:40] Andrew Linden: Dunno what is going on there...
[17:40] Andrew Linden: When you're sitting on the ground?
[17:40] Ryozu Yamamoto: Nope
[17:41] Andrew Linden: Oh, sitting on an object touching the ground. A dynamic object?
[17:41] Ryozu Yamamoto: It seems as long as the exploit object in question touches the ground it has a chance to happen
[17:42] Sidewinder Linden: /i'm back - sorry for the wait
[17:42] Andrew Linden: It could be that the collisions are getting disabled between the seat and the ground. Not sure why but if I had the repro I could probably figure it ou.
[17:42] Ryozu Yamamoto: I'll see if Warkirby feels like playing with it some more and let you know the results
[17:42] Andrew Linden: Teravus, you were wondering how the avatar stops flying? Could you elaborate on the question a little?
[17:43] Arawn Spitteler: Oh, Sidewinder, are you responsible for the Beta? I'm getting a weird camera bug
[17:43] Teravus Ousley: sure, when an avatar hits the ground, the client knows to stop flying because it knows where the heightfield is
[17:43] Sidewinder Linden: /weird camera bug?
[17:43] Teravus Ousley: .. but when it collides with prim,
[17:43] Arawn Spitteler: in-out-in-out-in-out
[17:43] Andrew Linden: Sidewinder is in charge of scheduling updates and changes to the preview, but camera bugs would go to me.
[17:43] Teravus Ousley: .. it doesn't know about where the prim are.. so it doesn't stop flying.. when pressing page down, and colliding with prim automatically
[17:44] Andrew Linden: The camera oscillation bug. Yeah we know about that.
[17:44] PUNTANG Rutkowski: look at u !@#$%^&*
[17:44] Andrew Linden: Simon did some work on the camera oscillations and reduced it
[17:44] Ryozu Yamamoto: o_o
[17:44] Andrew Linden: But it still needs some work.
[17:44] Teravus Ousley: so, my question.. is what does the physics engine do to tell let the sim know to tell the client to stop flying?
[17:45] elike Aichi: excuse me for the inconveniance of capturingg him
[17:45] elike Aichi: he was just ubstructing the law
[17:45] Ryozu Yamamoto: elike, you realize you're breaking the TOS, right?
[17:45] Ryozu Yamamoto sighs.
[17:46] Arawn Spitteler wonders if they're playing cops and griefers
[17:46] Rex Cronon: like the one that was caged didn't?
[17:46] Teravus Ousley: does the physics engine report to the sim all of the collisions.. like.. as an event?
[17:46] Ryozu Yamamoto: Cops in SL, 9 times out of 10 are griefers.
[17:46] Arawn Spitteler: So, what makes sl any different?
[17:46] Andrew Linden: Teravus, I still don't understand the flying avatar question.
[17:47] Andrew Linden: If the avatar is flying then there are forces pushing the avatar's collision body around
[17:47] Andrew Linden: er... impulses really
[17:47] Redux Decosta: Ryozu: also, RL ;)
[17:47] Ryozu Yamamoto chuckles
[17:47] Andrew Linden: If the avatar runs into another object... then the impulses will be defeated by the collisions of the object
[17:47] Kitto Flora: Hes asking how the phys engine lelss the client to stop, when the Avatar is detected to have hit a prim
[17:47] Kitto Flora: (tells)
[17:48] Teravus Ousley: yep. when the avatar presses page down .. and colides with a prim.... he stops flying
[17:48] Teravus Ousley: .. if the prim is under it.
[17:48] Andrew Linden: Oh that.
[17:48] Ryozu Yamamoto: It's all server-side
[17:48] Andrew Linden: that is some code that James Linden added a long time ago.
[17:48] Ryozu Yamamoto: Even if it's the ground in question,
[17:48] Andrew Linden: The code detects if the collisions are at the feet
[17:48] Ryozu Yamamoto: Oh, speaking of
[17:48] Andrew Linden: so basically, if the avatar is flying down AND is colliding at the feet, then flying bit is turned off
[17:49] Ryozu Yamamoto: That code
[17:49] Ryozu Yamamoto: I think the code that handles hard landing mode for an avatar isn't using it x_x
[17:49] Teravus Ousley: ahh, and the client gets informed this via some message.. (so it doesn't decide in every case to flip the flying button)
[17:49] Rex Cronon: too bad u can't rotate the av like 180 degrees
[17:49] Andrew Linden: yes, probably it sends a message to the client
[17:49] Kitto Flora: (magic thing -> flying bit)
[17:50] Teravus Ousley: k, thanks. That answered my question
[17:50] Ryozu Yamamoto: Still having issues of hard landing mode triggered by hitting a wall perpendicular
[17:50] Andrew Linden: hard landings are not using it... Ryozu
[17:50] Ryozu Yamamoto: Or vertically
[17:51] Andrew Linden: Hitting the wall hard causes... what?
[17:51] Kitto Flora: What do you recon about the extra physics processing time in H4, Andrew? Fixable?
[17:51] Ryozu Yamamoto: Moving laterally into a wall at high speeds can cause hard landing
[17:51] Ryozu Yamamoto: At which point all control is lost (Scripts still cannot affect a hard landing AV)
[17:51] Andrew Linden: Oh right, and attachment forces are lost when landing hard.
[17:52] Andrew Linden: Yeah, I still need to fix that.
[17:52] Teravus Ousley: :D
[17:52] Ryozu Yamamoto: But yeah, I was just thinking, the hard landing mode being triggered could use some help of that feet code
[17:52] Ryozu Yamamoto: You can even trigger hard landing by hitting yoru head on the ceiling right now, I think
[17:53] Kitto Flora: Needs to get 13/3 time faster , greater than 4 times faster
[17:53] Andrew Linden: Ok Sidewinder, did you want to make any announcements or give some updates?
[17:53] Sidewinder Linden: sure...
[17:53] Andrew Linden: Kitto. Extra physics processing time.
[17:54] Sidewinder Linden: we've now reconfigured the beta grid to have core regions and about 14 resident regions at this point
[17:54] Andrew Linden: Kitto, are you saying that Havok4 physics timestep is too long?
[17:54] Andrew Linden: Er... too expensive on the CPU?
[17:54] Kitto Flora: Too expensive on CPU by greater than 4x, compared to h1
[17:55] Andrew Linden: I'll have to look into that Kitto. If that is the case then it will eat into LSL runtime resources.
[17:55] Andrew Linden: Go on Sidewinder.
[17:55] Kitto Flora: It does... and how.
[17:55] Sidewinder Linden: kitto, how did you determine that? just curious
[17:55] Kitto Flora: See all the figures in....
[17:55] Teravus Ousley: I was going to ask the same question :D
[17:55] Kitto Flora: SVC-1094
[17:56] Redux Decosta: oh the reason i came by: i noticed when physics in havok4 gets really bad, autoreturn stops working. has anyone mentioned that yet?
[17:56] Teravus Ousley: oh, neat
[17:56] Kitto Flora: I have two near identical sims on H1 and H4, with identcal stuff running. I get figures from stats bar
[17:57] Sidewinder Linden: so should i go back to updates?
[17:57] Kitto Flora: Redux, I never heard of that but could test it
[17:57] Redux Decosta: it was happening on crash-me. those sims get hosed with physics & it'll be hours before that 30 minutes autoreturn kicks in
[17:58] Rex Cronon: redux, click on them and see if they still have a name, if they don't , than is becaus a bug in the viewer
[17:58] Redux Decosta: they do
[17:58] Ryozu Yamamoto: It's not Rex, the other night right before you showed up
[17:58] Ryozu Yamamoto: Those spheres we were kicking off the si
[17:58] Ryozu Yamamoto: sim
[17:58] Redux Decosta: i think it may be possible that time dilation is affection autreturn, but thats just a stab in the dark
[17:58] Kitto Flora: I can certainly load Wish with physics, then check if it autoreturn works
[17:58] Ryozu Yamamoto: Had been there for at least a couple hours
[17:59] Redux Decosta: we finally resorted to pushing them all off world after about 3-4 hours
[17:59] Kitto Flora suspects MG asset delays.....
[17:59] Ryozu Yamamoto: Autoreturn did finally kick in and send half of them off
[17:59] Rex Cronon: i was just giving a suggestion to check the name, to be sure is not viewer related
[18:00] Andrew Linden: I don't see why autoreturn would do that. The parcel autoreturn accounting shouldn't be dependent on the physics engine.
[18:00] Ryozu Yamamoto nods.
[18:01] Andrew Linden: However... I wonder if physics statu changes by the Runtime Collision Control System (RCCS) is somehow dirtying the object's notion of time on the parcel.
[18:01] Andrew Linden: Shouldn't be too hard to fix.
[18:01] Ryozu Yamamoto: I think that's likely it
[18:01] Andrew Linden: I'm going to have to head out soon.
[18:01] Ryozu Yamamoto: It's the objects that get disabled that seem to stick around
[18:02] Andrew Linden: I wanted to mention again: I won't be having office hours next tuesday, Dec 25th
[18:02] Kitto Flora: More news from Sidewinder?
[18:02] Andrew Linden: however, I do plan on holding hours on the 1st of January. Probably from home.
[18:02] Sidewinder Linden: ok...
[18:02] Sidewinder Linden: so we've got the new beta grid configuration up and running, and have i think about 14 regions in test there
[18:03] Sidewinder Linden: the basic idea is that folks can check out their region on the beta preview, and decide if they are ready to convert their public region to the current havok4 build
[18:03] Sidewinder Linden: i'll be blogging about this hopefully later tonight (tomorrow at the outside)
[18:03] Sidewinder Linden: it seems likely from the folks i've talked to so far that we will have some public havok4 regions before the end of the year
[18:04] Redux Decosta: oh
[18:04] Redux Decosta: point of order
[18:04] Sidewinder Linden: the system is set up so that we can easily bring regions fromt he main sysetm in for testing - so if you (or anyone you know) would like to check their region with h4, have them let me know (sidewinder (at) lindenlab.com)
[18:04] Redux Decosta: we mentioned before having space for the meetings on a quieter area
[18:04] Sidewinder Linden: yes redux?
[18:04] Arawn Spitteler: Is GSLR actually running? I didn't see a train rez, when I was there.
[18:04] Arawn Spitteler doesn't think all newbies have flight feathers
[18:04] Andrew Linden: yeah Redux, I've been too busy to find a new location.
[18:04] Teravus Ousley: Take care Andrew, thanks for answering my questions.
[18:04] Redux Decosta: ryo has a low prim sim reserved & i'm sure we can move there
[18:05] Kitto Flora: GSLR in Beta likely not running
[18:05] Redux Decosta: the sim name is Content to Hover
[18:05] Kitto Flora: GSLR on MG may be running
[18:05] Sidewinder Linden: ahh thanks redux - no that is not a sim name we had talked about...
[18:05] Redux Decosta: it's essentially a private sandbox ryo & i have been using
[18:05] Ryozu Yamamoto: IT was also brought up the idea of holding things in an H4 sim
[18:05] Redux Decosta: right that too
[18:05] Ryozu Yamamoto: Now that there's some on the main grid
[18:05] Sidewinder Linden: so just to finish a couple of tidbits...
[18:05] Ryozu Yamamoto: That might be an option as well
[18:06] Sidewinder Linden: if there are folks who already know they want to run h4 on their main region, we can convert them starting likely tomorrow... i am just waiting for a few more hosts to be set up and then we're ready
[18:06] Redux Decosta: i will set a parcel up on Content to Hover for a little meeting area & send you a landmark if you like Andrew
[18:06] Sidewinder Linden: once deployed as havok4 regions, they can be reverted to havok1 if necessary, without loosing content (as far as we know...)
[18:06] Andrew Linden: Sidewinder, I thought you had your first dozen or so volunteer spots filled.
[18:07] Sidewinder Linden: we have those filled, but if they are done with their testing in the next couple of days, their spots will be released and we can bring more in
[18:07] Redux Decosta: how hard would it be to get Content to Hover switched to 4? that would kill 2 birds with 1 stone
[18:08] Sidewinder Linden: there are now many more hosts on the beta than before, so we have capacity to run a pretty significant number through in a week at a day or two of testing apiece
[18:08] Redux Decosta: theres no content on the sim so no concern about loss
[18:08] Sidewinder Linden: is content to hover private?
[18:08] Ryozu Yamamoto: Err, talking about Beta grid only right now, right?
[18:08] Redux Decosta: its a private void sim, i own the estate, ryo owns the land
[18:09] Teravus Ousley sees sidewinder's head moving.. so knows that the sim hasn't frozen :D
[18:09] Sidewinder Linden: so this is for testing? i can check and see
[18:10] Kitto Flora: Happy Holiday Andrew! :)
[18:10] Sidewinder Linden: heh yeah i was lagged as well
[18:10] Sidewinder Linden: sry
[18:10] Sidewinder Linden: thanks andrew
[18:10] Teravus Ousley: Tc Andrew :D
[18:10] Arawn Spitteler: CU next year
[18:10] Rex Cronon: take care andrew
[18:10] Teravus Ousley: Andrew = my hero :D
[18:10] Ryozu Yamamoto waves.
[18:11] Sidewinder Linden: sry - you mentioned two birds... content to hover... what would bringing that one in take care of?
[18:11] Andrew Linden: Happy Holidays.