User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2008 08 12

Transcript of Andrew Linden's office hours:

[11:02]	Andrew Linden:	Hello
[11:02]	Cummere Mayo:	so andrew to solve a bet. whcih did you do upon seeing me this time? groan or sigh?
[11:02]	Andrew Linden:	My heart leapt with gladness.
[11:02]	Andrew Linden:	(I have attendees!!!)
[11:03]	Rex Cronon:	ooops
[11:03]	Nock Forager:	ops you sitting on me.
[11:03]	Rex Cronon:	hello everybody
[11:03]	Waya Sion:	greetings Simon, Andrew, and the rest!
[11:03]	Andrew Linden:	hello
[11:03]	Cummere Mayo:	heh ... well you already know what im gonan ask lol
[11:03]	Simon Linden:	Hi everyone
[11:03]	Nock Forager:	greeting.
[11:03]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	Hello all
[11:03]	Rex Cronon:	hiii
[11:03]	Andrew Linden:	Go ahead and ask Cummere and jog my memory.
[11:04]	Cummere Mayo:	2511 and 2708
[11:05]	Andrew Linden:	SVC-2511 is fixed in the havok4-8 maintenance codebase, is currently in the QA pipeline (for reopened by two unrelated but bundled bugs, now refixed by me) and I hope to get it all into the 1.25-Server update
[11:05]	Andrew Linden:	lemme look up SVC-2708...
[11:05]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Wee! Progress! :)
[11:06]	Cummere Mayo:	yay!
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2708
[11:06]	Cummere Mayo:	can i c/p that bit abotu 2511 to soem intrested parties?
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	That is the bug related to performance problems on Lost Angles. Simon and Don Linden are working on that.
[11:07]	Simon Linden:	I have an announcement on the performance work for later...
[11:07]	Andrew Linden:	I overheard Don talking yesterday about some experimental simulator code that he wanted to deploy to a select few regions on the main grid
[11:07]	Simon Linden:	... but Andrew is beating me to it :)
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	I assume that it is to get some preliminary performance stats, or to test some experimental fixes, for the performance problem
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	ah ok Simon, go ahead with the announcement. What I know is just rumor
[11:08]	Simon Linden:	It's an accurate rumor
[11:09]	Simon Linden:	We're going to set up a few hosts (starting with 2) on the main grid to run development versions of the simulator
[11:09]	Simon Linden:	We have new code to get better measurements of performance across the whole machine, so we can see how regions and the back-end interact
[11:10]	Simon Linden:	There also are two minor improvements that are in the main code pipeline, but this will allow us to test them sooner
[11:10]	Simon Linden:	So ... Sidewinder Linden is coordinating this
[11:10]	Simon Linden:	And he's looking for some volunteer regions. He already has sent out invites to a few regions we've worked with before ... Lost Angels and Franks Place are on the list
[11:10]	Andrew Linden:	There is a possibility that if they can be tested earlier and show results, they could be accelerated through QA for the 1.25-Server update, I suppose
[11:11]	Simon Linden:	We're also going to set up a machine with 16 open space regions, as they are getting more and more popular
[11:11]	Cummere Mayo:	ack i forgot to ask cg when is projected release for 1.25?
[11:11]	Simon Linden:	Drop Sidewinder a note if anyone is interested
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	Well, 1.24-Server has been delayed to the week of the 19th I think
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	and 1.25 couldn't be any sooner than one week after that
[11:12]	Nock Forager:	interesting.
[11:12]	Simon Linden:	Yes, I'm guessing end-of-month at the earliest for 1.25, but that's a guess
[11:12]	Creem Pye:	is it a beefier server than usual for 16 regions? or is it using your new load-balancing code, Simon?
[11:12]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	is there any talk about 2.0 or is that a long way off
[11:13]	Simon Linden:	It does have the new sleep code that should help share the CPU more, but otherwise is the same
[11:13]	Andrew Linden:	An optimistic scenario would be that we would have 1.25 all ready to go AND MONO would have some emergency fixes that needed to go out pronto --> maybe it all could get bundled into an update 1 week after the MONO release
[11:13]	Simon Linden:	Oh, there was also some low-level diagnostic code we removed
[11:14]	Andrew Linden:	a pessimistic scenario would be that 1.24 gets some emegency fixes and they don't want to include any 1.25 changes... so we get 1.24.1, .2, etc until the MONO project settles down
[11:15]	Andrew Linden:	Simon, do you have any other announcements?
[11:15]	Simon Linden:	No, that's it
[11:15]	Andrew Linden:	I've got one little announcement: I won't be able to make it to this Thursday's office hour (I'll be out of the office)
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	I was hoping you would be attending on Thursday Smon
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	er... Simon
[11:16]	Simon Linden:	I should be able to make it
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	Ok that would be great.
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	Alright, I guess the table is open.
[11:17]	Andrew Linden:	Anybody have any questions or issues to talk about, feel free to mention them.
[11:17]	Waya Sion:	with the idea of having the private similator code, you could use that as another idea and do live testing of similators being developed in mid-trafic LL sims
[11:18]	Siobhan McCallen:	VWR-7957 is a pain in the drain. But I don't think that's your department. :)
[11:18]	Siobhan McCallen:	is it?
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	Waya, what do you mean by "private simulator code"?
[11:19]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	checking to see if I am still alive
[11:19]	Waya Sion:	let me find the line i probably said it wrong LOL
[11:19]	Andrew Linden:	No, VWR-7957 is a rendering bug. Not my field of expertise
[11:19]	Waya Sion:	your still alive xlr
[11:19]	Gaius Goodliffe takes Mr. Hudson's pulse.
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	but I see that it is assigned to WorkingOnIt Linden. I think that means someone has noticed it and has probably imported it into our internal jira list.
[11:20]	Siobhan McCallen:	But we're waiting with bated breath for SVC-2511.
[11:20]	Siobhan McCallen:	glad you've got that well in hand
[11:21]	Andrew Linden:	The LL developer pool, and list of active project is growing, and my ability to stay up to date and knowledgable about everything continues to decrease.
[11:21]	Andrew Linden:	So I'm not sure what work is going on in the viewer crashes and stability department.
[11:22]	Waya Sion:	nevermind, i missread something LOL
[11:22]	Siobhan McCallen:	I've been seeing some strange things with rotations lately.
[11:22]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	Stability has improved a lot
[11:22]	Cummere Mayo:	ok whoever asked abotu the rendering bug um probably want to go to pastrami for info on that one.
[11:22]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	Performance is up and down
[11:22]	Siobhan McCallen:	I'll check with pastrami on that, thanks
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	strange rotations lately? How sow?
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	s/sow/so
[11:23]	Waya Sion:	one thing that may help with crashes in the viewer is to automatically turn on the multi-threading if the system is able to support it
[11:23]	Creem Pye:	llSetRot() on objects not always being updated perhaps, Siobhan?
[11:23]	Cummere Mayo:	waya that would be a fetrue request to make for the jira. id vote for it if you make it
[11:23]	Siobhan McCallen:	A Novatech TARDIS has problems with doors rotating strangely following a move to a receiver pad that is at either 90 degrees Z or 270 degrees Z
[11:24]	Siobhan McCallen:	I reproduced it reliably and showed it to Cheshyr Pontchartrain
[11:24]	Siobhan McCallen:	He's the creator
[11:24]	Creem Pye:	are other rotations ok? like 91 degrees Z
[11:24]	Siobhan McCallen:	one degree off the cardinal and it works fine
[11:25]	Andrew Linden:	Reliable repro recipies should be easy to fix. Siobhan, have you created a JIRA for the bug yet?
[11:25]	Siobhan McCallen:	on the cardinal, and one door or the other will move incorrectly
[11:25]	Siobhan McCallen:	No, I haven't. I don't know that Cheshyr has had time. Perhaps I should.
[11:25]	Cummere Mayo:	hmm we also had an issue in traige the other day abotu toruses not able to proeperly align textures on the 90 degree and 270 and 180 axis
[11:25]	Rex Cronon:	how many prims has the door?
[11:25]	Siobhan McCallen:	one
[11:26]	Andrew Linden:	The reason a JIRA is useful is that I can write down the number on a note, and revisit it later, and comments can be added, and it can be assigned and searched for.
[11:26]	Siobhan McCallen:	if I could rez, I could repro it now
[11:26]	Siobhan McCallen:	I reproduced it in two different sims
[11:26]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	I am just getting Partly friendly with the WIKI the Jira is something else
[11:27]	Waya Sion:	that rotation thing would make me wonder if it has the same bug on both physical and non-physical object, considering non-physical, if my memory serves me correct, is client-side
[11:27]	Siobhan McCallen:	I've heard talk about other odd things with rotations
[11:27]	Siobhan McCallen:	but nothing I can point a finger at
[11:27]	Andrew Linden:	A nice format for a "repro recipe" is to paste a simple version of the script that breaks, and then comments of for form: expected behavior is such-and-such, actual behavior is so-and-so
[11:28]	Siobhan McCallen:	I'll see if I can find a simple recipe to paste.
[11:28]	Siobhan McCallen:	this is something a product is suffering
[11:28]	Waya Sion:	most I had for questions is why a rotation doesn't seem to hold on a non-phys but the answor for that was right in the wiki
[11:28]	Gaius Goodliffe:	oh was afk -- but I've been seeing that a lot latelyl, especially with child prims -- not only rotations but even position changes don't update frequently on the client side
[11:28]	Siobhan McCallen:	which is why I showed it to the creator...in hopes he could cobble up a simple thing to paste up
[11:28]	Creem Pye:	just the llSetRot() part should be enough (maybe in a touch event?)
[11:29]	Waya Sion:	brb
[11:29]	Rex Cronon:	related to this: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2608
[11:29]	Gaius Goodliffe:	llSetPrimitiveParams([position & rotation])
[11:29]	Rex Cronon:	?
[11:29]	Andrew Linden:	If the script is too complicated, or too proprietary, to paste then you can give a copy of the object to a relevant linden, however it is best if the object is named "SVC-RelevantNubmer -- broken script rotations" or something like that
[11:30]	Waya Sion:	back
[11:31]	Siobhan McCallen:	I think that's it
[11:31]	Andrew Linden:	Yes, SVC-2608 has a nice repro recipe. Lex Neva claims it is a duplicate of SVC-93
[11:32]	Rex Cronon:	is not
[11:32]	Siobhan McCallen:	at first glance, it looks like 2608 is what's going on...but I agree with Rex. I don't think it's a duplicate
[11:32]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	what about the Camera zooming in and out when you stand close to something behind you
[11:33]	Ehdward Spengler:	that is annoying
[11:33]	Ehdward Spengler:	extremely annoying
[11:33]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	I leave places for that
[11:33]	Cummere Mayo:	differant bug already being worked on
[11:33]	Siobhan McCallen:	Oooh, yes..."Breathing Camera Syndrome".. please find it with a pack of wild hounds and kill it.
[11:33]	Cummere Mayo:	easy fix take one step forward
[11:33]	Rex Cronon:	yes annoying
[11:33]	Andrew Linden:	Sigh... that one is hard to fix. I've tried several times.
[11:34]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	yes but it is not getting fixed
[11:34]	Andrew Linden:	At this point, I suspect it is easier to fix by rewriting it into the client than to fix the server-side
[11:34]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	I tried changing Camera angle and distance
[11:34]	Andrew Linden:	I was hoping to get a free weekend where I could try to fix it in the client
[11:35]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	Lindens get weekends off dont they
[11:35]	Siobhan McCallen:	I'll play with 2608 and see if it's relevant to my issue, and if it is, I'll comment on it with my own issue. If not, I'll make a new JIRA entry.
[11:35]	Cummere Mayo chuckeles at the mythical idea of "free weekends"
[11:35]	Rex Cronon:	sometimes is like playinf lara croft, verssion o:)
[11:35]	Andrew Linden:	Some LL developers claimed that to rewrite it on the client side would take two developer-months. But it seems to me that a motivated dev could do it over a weekend.
[11:35]	Andrew Linden:	Unfortunately, in order to prove that I need to get a free weekend (I usually don't work on weekends)
[11:36]	Siobhan McCallen:	what's a weekend?
[11:36]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	lol
[11:36]	Creem Pye:	but what about LSL hooks to see where an avatar's camera position is?
[11:36]	Creem Pye:	that would require some extra code, I think
[11:36]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	camera position doesnt seem to help at all
[11:36]	Creem Pye:	(or just return some default camera position)
[11:36]	Andrew Linden:	How would LSL camera position queries be helpful/
[11:37]	Creem Pye:	er, since the camera is controlled ont he server side now, I would expect the scripting engine to have easy access to camera positions. but if camera control moves to the client, the client would have to report that information to the server
[11:37]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	at least its in the back think if that happens in the front
[11:38]	Andrew Linden:	Actually the way it works is that the simulator provides some hints as to where the client-side camera should be. The client then decides to obey the hints or not
[11:39]	Andrew Linden:	the oscillation you're noticing is an oscillation in the server-side hints
[11:39]	Andrew Linden:	however in theory the client could ignore them
[11:39]	Andrew Linden:	a hacked client, for example
[11:39]	Creem Pye:	ah I see. does the client report the camera's focal point too (like if I alt-cam onto some prim)
[11:39]	Andrew Linden:	there is no way for the simulator to enforce where the client camera is
[11:39]	Cummere Mayo:	why are the hints occilating?
[11:39]	Andrew Linden:	Yes, the client reports back where the camera is actually located
[11:40]	Ehdward Spengler:	is there any timeline on the possibility of having more sophisticated shaders, like normal mapping so we can do things like have realistic water on a prim - or do i have the wrong linden/office?
[11:40]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	could you not detect the changing view
[11:40]	Siobhan McCallen:	perhaps the hints are in the wrong direction, resulting in a positive feedback loop?
[11:40]	Andrew Linden:	I'm not 100% certain why the hints are oscillating. I tried to put some hysteresis into the camera hints to prevent them from oscillating from stuff like floating point error, and slight motion of avatar camera
[11:41]	Andrew Linden:	however in some cases they still oscillate
[11:41]	Creem Pye:	it's probably just underdamped
[11:41]	Creem Pye:	under certain conditions
[11:41]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	well you guys are aware and doing the best you can
[11:42]	Cummere Mayo:	ok dumb question... could the code that pushes an avi out of a prim also be a cause or contributer?
[11:42]	Andrew Linden:	The camera location hints are in the form of a plane-equation and the client tries to keep the camera on one side of the plane
[11:42]	Andrew Linden:	The plane is computed using ray-traces back from the avatar's head until they hit something
[11:42]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	I see
[11:42]	Andrew Linden:	however, we do multiple ray traces ( up to six I think) making a sort of column
[11:43]	Cummere Mayo:	and if the avi is AGAINST a prim hmm feedback loop
[11:43]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	maybe a delay loop in there
[11:43]	Andrew Linden:	I'm sure it can be fixed server side, but it is starting to get complicated. No, if the avatar is too close to the wall they we just ignore the wall... the raytrace starts some distance behind the avatar
[11:43]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	or sample rate
[11:44]	Siobhan McCallen:	the worst feedback occurs when inside a space where the camera bounces between two prims. It doesn't know which one to obey
[11:44]	Andrew Linden:	There is already a sample rate.
[11:45]	Andrew Linden:	There is also hysteresis on the start/end locations of the ray trace, so if the avatar moves just a little bit (less then about 0.5 meters I think) the points of the raytrace don't change
[11:45]	Siobhan McCallen:	also zooming in closer takes you inside the threshold, and cuts the feedback
[11:45]	Arawn Spitteler:	Camera Oscillation happens routinely, by my sandbox wall, cut down from the megaprim of the floor. Nothing is there, but something is therish.
[11:46]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	Arawn if you adjust the Cut Path of the Mega Prim you will see the other patrs of it
[11:46]	Arawn Spitteler:	Might nust be having my head shoved into my face.
[11:47]	Cummere Mayo:	depending on the type of megaprim soem make part of a 50x50x50 prim pphantom and invisible and leave only part visible and physical
[11:47]	Arawn Spitteler:	PAth Cut? I only use Profile cut.
[11:47]	Cummere Mayo:	that might confuse the camera
[11:47]	Andrew Linden:	What's the jira for the camera oscillation, anyone know?
[11:47]	Waya Sion:	i've got to run to HIP1: there's too many questions than they can handle there atm
[11:47]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	C U Waya
[11:47]	Cummere Mayo:	which jira for it? theres allot of them
[11:47]	Cummere Mayo:	i dont have any on my watch list though
[11:47]	Gaius Goodliffe:	I get the same thing inside a castle without a single megaprim anywhere nearby... I don't think it's related. Might have something to do with rotated/tortured prims, though.
[11:48]	Andrew Linden:	ah, here it is: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-6714
[11:48]	Gaius Goodliffe:	I've noticed SL frequently has issues relating to prim surfaces on cut prims and such...
[11:49]	Andrew Linden:	perhaps that is a dupe? Zero votes and only one watcher.
[11:49]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	I know that a 20x20x0.01 Mega Prim will go Phantom in one corner after a Sim Restart
[11:50]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	changing it to a 20x20x0.8 fixes it
[11:50]	Andrew Linden:	XLR8RRICK that 20x20x0.01 megaprim goes phantom sounds like a reproducible bug. Have you created a JIRA item for it?
[11:51]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	I would like to but I still dont know how to use the Jira
[11:51]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	only been here for 1.5 years
[11:51]	Andrew Linden:	Alright, well if you do create one send me an IM with the number.
[11:51]	Arawn Spitteler:	Start badly,
[11:52]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	ok
[11:52]	Cummere Mayo:	xlr go into the jira, log in with user name and pass for sl, then click create new issue
[11:52]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	ah but you are to check to see if it has already been reported
[11:52]	Cummere Mayo:	set the issue type and then fill out all the fields with as much info as you can
[11:52]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	and thats where I loose it
[11:53]	Andrew Linden:	BTW, if anyone knows of a particular place where the camera oscillation is easy to reproduce, perhaps you could comment on VWR-6714?
[11:53]	Arawn Spitteler:	Let the more experienced do the searchingh for you
[11:54]	Siobhan McCallen:	just go ahead and post it XLR...if it's a duplicate, others will find it and flag it such
[11:54]	Cummere Mayo:	xlr if you make the jira, someone like me can find the dupelicate if there is one.
[11:55]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	ok I will report just want to do things right
[11:55]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	and searching for a problem is tough
[11:55]	Siobhan McCallen:	rare fellow
[11:55]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	I am a Mentor
[11:55]	Andrew Linden:	I mentioned at the beginning of this hour, but I should reiterate: I won'd be able to attend this week's Thursday hour, but Simon Linden is planning on attending.
[11:55]	Cummere Mayo:	i may hold a class on jiraing. I want to get with sue, torley and alexa first though
[11:56]	Arawn Spitteler:	You could hold it in my sandbox, if you like.
[11:56]	Cummere Mayo:	dont worry andrew ill wait till tuesday to bug you again *cackles evilly*
[11:56]	Arawn Spitteler:	First, teach, then, learn
[11:56]	Andrew Linden:	That is an interesting idea Cummere. Also wiki documentation might be a good reference.
[11:57]	Cummere Mayo:	the wiki documentation on using jira is worse then useless.
[11:57]	Siobhan McCallen:	Jira for Dummehs
[11:57]	Cummere Mayo:	torelys video was good though
[11:57]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	well We all know different things and thats why We are All Better Together
[11:57]	Andrew Linden:	Well, it is a wiki, right?
[11:57]	Arawn Spitteler:	Jira for those who know htey're dummies
[11:57]	Arawn Spitteler:	Oh, we also need a class for fixing the wikis.
[11:57]	Siobhan McCallen:	one for all, and all for one, and I want a beer
[11:58]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	style="white-space:normal;"	|
[11:58]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	style="white-space:normal;"		";, ____.
[11:58]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	style="white-space:normal;"	=	_|..., ] -
[11:58]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	(@)'(@)""""**(@)(@)**(@)
[11:58]	Andrew Linden:	Yay, ascii art, in non-uniform font no less
[11:58]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	lol
[11:58]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	\ | /
[11:58]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	\ | /
[11:58]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	`. \ ' / .' /
[11:58]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	`. .-*""*-. .'
[11:58]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	"*-._ /.@" "@.\ _.-*"
[11:58]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	-----\  ; .  ; /------
[11:58]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	_.-*" \ `._.' / "*-._
[11:58]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	.' `-.__.-' `.
[11:58]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	/ .' / . \ `. \
[11:58]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	' | `
[11:58]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	R E L A X  !
[11:59]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	someone stop me
[11:59]	Nock Forager:	lol
[11:59]	Andrew Linden:	Do you have those hooked up to gestures?
[11:59]	Siobhan McCallen throws a big wet blanket over XLR
[11:59]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	yes and hot keys
[11:59]	Andrew Linden:	You can stop now ;-)
[11:59]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	having fun is a rule
[11:59]	Andrew Linden:	Any last minute issues or questions before the end of the hour?
[12:00]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Mute is your friend. :)
[12:00]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	Thank you for sharing your time with us
[12:00]	Siobhan McCallen:	any idea when the beta grid refreshes next?
[12:00]	Arawn Spitteler:	Hot Link No Hot-Button might be a good idea
[12:00]	Simon Linden:	I'll be at the Thursday office hours, but drop me an IM if I'm late :)
[12:00]	Rex Cronon:	why does not the texture cache work so good?
[12:01]	Andrew Linden:	Siobhan, there are several beta grids now, but the main one is 'aditi', and currently holds the pending MONO release, I think.
[12:01]	Siobhan McCallen:	the mono grid in particular
[12:01]	Cummere Mayo:	amung other things yes
[12:01]	Arawn Spitteler:	We can log on to secredt others?
[12:01]	Simon Linden:	gotta run - thanks everyone for coming
[12:02]	Rex Cronon:	bye simon
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	Although, I think there are two grids with MONO... can't remember the other one
[12:02]	Nock Forager:	seeya Simon
[12:02]	Cummere Mayo:	ok well all im gonan go take care of a couple things fast ttyl
[12:02]	Siobhan McCallen:	oh yes. SVC-22! don't forget! :)
[12:02]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	I am interseted
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	I think the easiest way to search for test grids is as follows:
[12:02]	Niaht Nakamichi:	Cummere, Sylvana says hello =)
[12:02]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	in learning to use the Jira
[12:02]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	and Wiki better
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	Before you press the [Connect] button press CTRL+SHIFT+G
[12:03]	Andrew Linden:	or maybe it is CTRL+ALT+G... can't remember
[12:03]	Rex Cronon:	alt
[12:03]	Andrew Linden:	that should open a little combo-box widget on the login bar
[12:03]	Siobhan McCallen:	one lists grids, the other launches missiles
[12:03]	Andrew Linden:	from there you can select the grid you want to try to log into
[12:03]	Andrew Linden:	however, many of the grids will probably be closed to public
[12:03]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	I dont have that one on my CheatSheet
[12:04]	Andrew Linden:	I don't know of an easy way to query which ones are open
[12:04]	Andrew Linden:	or what versions they are running
[12:04]	Andrew Linden:	also... the test grids may go down without notice
[12:04]	Siobhan McCallen:	I was just hoping to test some of my latest stuff on Mono, and it's not there yet.
[12:04]	Andrew Linden:	The other MONO grid is "damballa' or something like that I think
[12:05]	Arawn Spitteler still doesn't knjow who Aditi was, let alone Damballa
[12:05]	Andrew Linden:	Babbage, Periapse, and Scouse Linden know more I think
[12:05]	Siobhan McCallen:	Aditi is the Hindu goddess of the sky
[12:05]	Siobhan McCallen:	meaning "the infinite"
[12:06]	Andrew Linden:	Arawn, your combo-box doesn't get any entries?
[12:06]	Gaius Goodliffe:	(I see LL outsources its grid naming to India. ;)
[12:06]	Siobhan McCallen:	Damballa is the father of all the Loa in Voudou
[12:06]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	like this all SL mainland and Islands are agni
[12:06]	Arawn Spitteler:	<ctrl><alt>g is a request for special powers, of which the request has been logged.
[12:06]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	sim2175.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.16.180:13013)
[12:07]	Andrew Linden:	Arawn you have to press those keys *before* you press the [Connect] button
[12:07]	Andrew Linden:	doesn't work once you've logged in
[12:07]	Siobhan McCallen:	this has been your Moment of Zen
[12:07]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	CTRL SHIFT G
[12:07]	Gaius Goodliffe:	heh
[12:07]	Andrew Linden:	After login that keycode sequence is a request for admin status
[12:08]	Arawn Spitteler:	Agni should properly be pronounced, as burning your finger, being the name of the Hindu God of Fire, the first of gods, having invetned worship, inthe 80th century
[12:08]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	right
[12:08]	Andrew Linden:	(but only if you have the "Advanced" debug menu enabled)
[12:08]	Andrew Linden:	alright thanks for coming. I'm going to run now
[12:08]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	Be Well Andrew
[12:08]	Rex Cronon:	bye andrew
[12:09]	Rex Cronon:	bye everybody
[12:09]	Siobhan McCallen:	thank you , Andrew
[12:09]	Arawn Spitteler is going to see what happens at his wall.
[12:09]	Nock Forager:	Thank you for meeting.
[12:09]	Rex Cronon:	have fun
[12:09]	Gaius Goodliffe:	later
[12:09]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	right Arawn
[12:09]	Siobhan McCallen:	later, all
[12:09]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	mbye bye
[12:11]	Lillie Yifu:	hihi andrew
[12:12]	Andrew Linden:	hello Lillie
[12:12]	Andrew Linden:	you aren't here for the office hours are you?
[12:12]	Andrew Linden:	they just ended (11:00 - 12:00)
[12:12]	Lillie Yifu nods
[12:13]	Lillie Yifu:	had a quick question for post office hours and thought you might still be here.
[12:13]	Andrew Linden:	What is it?
[12:14]	Lillie Yifu:	We are seeing a new bug with prims in the new server. prims that are dimpled and reshaped below .01 M are starting to have people fall through or not get placed on top of if they reze in the middle
[12:14]	Lillie Yifu:	it applies to hps and regular prims
[12:14]	Andrew Linden:	hps?
[12:14]	Lillie Yifu:	huge prims
[12:14]	Andrew Linden:	ah
[12:14]	Andrew Linden:	is there a jira item for it yet?
[12:14]	Arawn Spitteler:	That sucked, but I ghot a reproduction
[12:15]	Lillie Yifu:	I'm going to file I just wanted to know if you want me to send you an example object
[12:15]	Lillie Yifu:	easiest to reproduce something if you ahve one
[12:16]	Andrew Linden:	An example object would be helpful. If so, name it "SVC-JIRA_NUMBER -- bad collisions on dimpled/reshaped prims" or something like that
[12:16]	Andrew Linden:	also, instructions on how to build the prim in the first place should go into the jira
[12:16]	Andrew Linden:	If you do all that, it is likely that the bug will be fixed sooner will be higher
[12:16]	Lillie Yifu:	kk I will do that. dimple and transform is most common with hps, but it get's done with ordianry prims too.
[12:17]	Andrew Linden:	well, however it is reproduced. instructions will be very helpful
[12:17]	Lillie Yifu:	Yes, we've had very good luck with our bugs getting fixed. But then, we try and track things donw, and give screenshots or samples. Not to mention test a bit to make sure it isn't user error or UI strangeness.
[12:18]	Andrew Linden:	ok thanks
[12:18]	Arawn Spitteler:	A good source of fixible bugs will also get quicker attention.
[12:18]	Lillie Yifu:	There are many people who complain about the JIRA responsiveness, but I am not one of them. It's just hmmm a difficult tool to use and many people don't invest in going through the proces, inclduing triage and so n. Being at triage and explaining thigns clearly helps a great deal too
[12:19]	Arawn Spitteler:	Also, that earlier search issue, was stopping me for a while.
[12:19]	Lillie Yifu:	What was the bug you were seeing?
[12:19]	Glitch Braess:	See you all later :) Gotta head to RL work. Heh.
[12:19]	Lillie Yifu:	I am at rl work. :P
[12:19]	Andrew Linden:	Yup, I'm outta here.
[12:19]	Lillie Yifu:	beijos Andrew. Thanks