User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2009 10 08

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  • [16:50] Morgaine Dinova: A much better label, Refresh Appearance :-) Unfortunately one looks for rebake, hehe
  • [16:50] Charlette Proto: basically i don't think we need more outside code integration now - we need to refactor and clean up the codebase first
  • [16:51] Charlette Proto: hehe the 'rebake' term is so stupid
  • [16:51] Charlette Proto: like rez
  • [16:51] Jacek Antonelli: Maybe we should add a "Rebake Cake" menu item
  • [16:51] Geneko Nemeth: Well, it makes sense from a technical perspective and isn't something you need to do by design.
  • [16:51] Melinda Latynina: u install *everything*?? well I have a firefox plugin for u that automates all your online banking. would u like it?
  • [16:52] Geneko Nemeth: Believe it or not, people do give out bank passwords to third parties.
  • [16:52] Melinda Latynina: not me!!
  • [16:52] Charlette Proto: sure I like your attitude melinda - you are Linden or a griefer?
  • [16:52] Melinda Latynina: i'm an ex linden
  • [16:53] Charlette Proto: kind of smell like one Melinda
  • [16:53] Jacek Antonelli rolls her eyes at Charlette
  • [16:53] Geneko Nemeth: So that's why you never upper case the lines and have double exclaimation marks!
  • [16:53] Melinda Latynina: i know. i've been drinking the coolaid
  • [16:53] Charlette Proto: so you a troll as well melinda
  • [16:53] Geneko Nemeth: Hi Nakomis.
  • [16:53] Melinda Latynina: a troll? hm, i resent that
  • [16:53] Jacek Antonelli: Cut the attitude, Charlette, it's not appropriate.
  • [16:54] Fury Rosewood: very nice look nako
  • [16:54] Charlette Proto: don't be concerned about my observations - this is the way I am
  • [16:54] Nakomis Lycia: Woof.. or.. rawr.. whatever sound fluffdragons back X3
  • [16:54] Fury Rosewood: hehe
  • [16:54] Jacek Antonelli: Almost 5PM, I suppose we should adjourn so people can get to Andrew's OH
  • [16:54] Jacek Antonelli: Thanks for coming everyone, hope to see you again next week
  • [16:54] Charlette Proto: anyway it is nice to see you join our crowd melinda, hope I don't make you feel like you are not welcome
  • [16:54] GG Office Hours HUD v1.5: 5:00 PM: Andrew Linden: Technical issues, SL architecture, physics engine
 http://slurl.com/secondlife/Denby/213/45/34  (Starts in 5 minutes)
  • [16:55] Morgaine Dinova: Yup, time to annoy Andrew :P
  • [16:55] Geneko Nemeth: Yeah, two hours, you guys must be tired.
  • [16:55] Melinda Latynina: thx charlette.
  • [16:58] Twisted Laws: Greetings
  • [16:58] Charlette Proto: hellos again everyone
  • [16:58] Phantom Ninetails: Greetings
  • [16:59] Fury Rosewood: hiya
  • [16:59] Charlette Proto: so how many references to NDA on new viewer are we going to hear today?
  • [16:59] Morgaine Dinova: Hi folks :-)
  • [17:00] GG Office Hours HUD v1.5: 5:00 PM: Andrew Linden: Technical issues, SL architecture, physics engine
 http://slurl.com/secondlife/Denby/213/45/34  (Starts now)
  • [17:00] Welcome to Linden office hours
  • [17:00] Phantom Ninetails: NDA?
  • [17:00] Charlette Proto: hi again Morg
  • [17:00] Morgaine Dinova: Hi Charlette :-)
  • [17:00] Charlette Proto: Non Disclosure Agreement
  • [17:00] Charlette Proto: the SL09 silence
  • [17:00] lonetorus Habilis: frankly i would rather hear of the sim side of stuff ;)
  • [17:00] Twisted Laws: Oskar was talking about them a little
  • [17:00] Phantom Ninetails: Hm I haven't heard that mentioned much here
  • [17:00] Charlette Proto: sure but sims only serve the viewer
  • [17:01] Moon Metty: hello everyone :)
  • [17:01] Morgaine Dinova: Hi Moon :-)
  • [17:01] Charlette Proto: sims are invisible otherwise so the changes are always related
  • [17:01] Gooden Uggla: hiya moon :)
  • [17:01] Moon Metty: :)
  • [17:01] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
  • [17:01] Morgaine Dinova: Hi Rex
  • [17:01] Rex Cronon: hi morgaine
  • [17:02] Moon Metty: hmmm, it all loads pretty slow
  • [17:02] Charlette Proto: like media plugins need to receive some data from the grid as you would expect
  • [17:02] Second Life: Your object 'Teapot' has been returned to your inventory lost and found folder by Liana Linden from parcel 'Hippotropolis Theater' at Hippotropolis 245, 16 due to parcel auto return.
  • [17:02] Rex Cronon: i see lots of empy space
  • [17:02] Charlette Proto: agree Moon this was the slowest load I've seen in ages
  • [17:03] Charlette Proto: empty space?
  • [17:03] Gooden Uggla: after what lil said on the forum yesterday, what do you think the odds are andrew will show today?
  • [17:03] Rex Cronon: and my draw distance is set to 4m
  • [17:03] lonetorus Habilis: hey andrew
  • [17:03] Ardy Lay: Hi Andrew
  • [17:03] Fury Rosewood: hey andrew
  • [17:03] Charlette Proto: I see no Lindens
  • [17:03] lonetorus Habilis: and fisher
  • [17:03] Fury Rosewood: thanks for dropping in
  • [17:03] Gooden Uggla: yay! i lose!
  • [17:03] Andrew Linden: hello everyone
  • [17:03] Charlette Proto: ah hi Andrew
  • [17:03] Gooden Uggla: hiya ansrew
  • [17:03] Ardy Lay: Hi Simon
  • [17:03] Fisher Linden: hey
  • [17:03] Gooden Uggla: hiya simon
  • [17:03] Rex Cronon: i mean i see only 2 or 3 people and the ground and a few prims
  • [17:03] Moon Metty: hi Andrew :)
  • [17:03] Rex Cronon: hello andrew, simon
  • [17:03] Moon Metty: hey Simon :)
  • [17:03] Gooden Uggla: hiya fisher
  • [17:03] Simon Linden: Hello
  • [17:03] Phantom Ninetails: Greetings Simon, Andrew
  • [17:03] Charlette Proto: rex you are having a bad hair day
  • [17:03] Ardy Lay: Oh, I see Fisher now. Hi there.
  • [17:04] Charlette Proto: hi Simon
  • [17:04] Morgaine Dinova: Hi Andrew, Simon, Fisher :-)
  • [17:04] Fisher Linden: hey all
  • [17:04] Fury Rosewood: hihi simon and fisher
  • [17:04] Simon Linden: This roof is always one of the last objects to rez
  • [17:04] Rex Cronon: that is nothing. u seem to be missing your skirt:)
  • [17:04] Psi Merlin: Hi Andrew, Simon and Fisher
  • [17:04] Morgaine Dinova: We ... need ... moar ... Lindens! :-)
  • [17:04] Charlette Proto: rex you need a faster connection and a new PC hehe
  • [17:04] Gooden Uggla: megaprims behaving badly? nah...
  • [17:04] Charlette Proto: and LL need i7 server machines
  • [17:04] GG Office Hours HUD v1.5: 5:00 PM: Andrew Linden: Technical issues, SL architecture, physics engine
 http://slurl.com/secondlife/Denby/213/45/34  (Started 5 minutes ago)
  • [17:05] Rex Cronon: sometimes i even see naked people. lol
  • [17:05] s virtually naked under his textures and attachments: Hi, Andrew, Simon and the host of unrezzed.
  • [17:05] Charlette Proto: wow don't look at me rex
  • [17:05] Simon Linden: There was some talk of new hardware with 8 cores and lots of RAM, not sure what's going on there :)
  • [17:05] Morgaine Dinova: I'm totally naked, live with it.
  • [17:05] Charlette Proto: that would be nice Simon
  • [17:05] Gooden Uggla: must be another grid
  • [17:05] Rex Cronon: your skirt finally loaded:)
  • [17:05] Simon Linden: Is today naked day?
  • [17:05] s got to see if he can look up his boat under http://jira.secondlife.com
  • [17:05] Phantom Ninetails: I bet it'll be just 4 cores with hyperthreading
  • [17:06] Ardy Lay: I see everybody fine.
  • [17:06] Rex Cronon: sometimes for me closthes load last:)
  • [17:06] Simon Linden: I think it was 2 quad cores
  • [17:06] Gooden Uggla: morgaine4, nudity helps lag, thanks for being a good neighbor :)
  • [17:06] Nakomis Lycia: Ardy : we got he early, before there was a crowd
  • [17:06] Andrew Linden: ok, the empty chair finally rezzed for me
  • [17:06] Fury Rosewood: everyone is loaded here
  • [17:06] Morgaine Dinova: lol
  • [17:06] Charlette Proto: BTW is any of the server 64bit?
  • [17:06] Phantom Ninetails: That'd be neat, Simon
  • [17:06] Nakomis Lycia: So everyone loads in fine for us.. those just joining are goign to be slower :p
  • [17:06] Fury Rosewood: yea
  • [17:06] Fury Rosewood: they get to gorge on all the prims D:
  • [17:06] Ardy Lay: So, everybody should try to be early? :-)
  • [17:06] Charlette Proto: I always thought 64bit made CAD data more efficient
  • [17:07] Rex Cronon: i think there is even a viewers that allows to see othes bare:)
  • [17:07] Andrew Linden: ugh. I'm in a terrible mood today. I got nothing done and this one project I was helping with just exploded with new requirements at the last minute.
  • [17:07] Moon Metty: uh oh
  • [17:08] Charlette Proto: haha Andrew - bad hair day don't worry it happens
  • [17:08] Rex Cronon: that is not a problem andrew
  • [17:08] Arawn Spitteler imagines a 64 bit RISC machine: 4Gig of Storage, 32 k of R->S commands, 32k of S->R, and 64k of Registers
  • [17:08] Andrew Linden: That's a standing joke about software projects, but I'd never had it happen to me to this extreme before.
  • [17:08] Andrew Linden: Meh, I have no news.
  • [17:08] Charlette Proto: one good thing about getting nothing done is how easy it is to up the performance the next day
  • [17:08] Simon Linden: Neither do I
  • [17:08] Rex Cronon: that is if u make it clear from begining that additional reqirements delay delivery time:)
  • [17:08] Twisted Laws: any comment on 1.30.2 ?
  • [17:08] Andrew Linden: Except that a server-1.30.2 is in the works.
  • [17:09] Simon Linden: Have gone to a lot of meetings lately
  • [17:09] Arawn Spitteler: Where did the requirements come from?
  • [17:09] Ovaltine Constantine: Teehee
  • [17:09] Gooden Uggla: sorry about your day andrew
  • [17:09] Andrew Linden: I just found out about 1.30.2 today. I know little else about it except that it exists.
  • [17:10] Gooden Uggla: sadly, meetings are taking a hit from the performance degradation, you can barely get 35-40 on a sim now and maintain chat speed
  • [17:10] Gooden Uggla: yes, neither do we :)
  • [17:11] Gooden Uggla: oskar said he would tell us something useful next week
  • [17:11] Charlette Proto: OK first announcement: server rollout with unknown new code
  • [17:11] Andrew Linden: Oskar said that re 1.30.2? or something useful about something else?
  • [17:11] Gooden Uggla: 1.30.2
  • [17:12] Gooden Uggla: but that was it, just "wait until next week"
  • [17:12] Moon Metty: he said that 1.30.2 contains security fixes, and maybe next week he can tell more
  • [17:12] Andrew Linden: Ah. It is for some exploit. I didn't work on any of that stuff.
  • [17:12] Moon Metty: that's all
  • [17:12] Rex Cronon: oskar linden? he has OH?
  • [17:12] Morgaine Dinova: Andrew: Actually, "new requirements" in an infrastructure team sounds excellent. :-))) [I'm thinking back to Zero's OH on Tuesday, in which he said he's working on totally new infrastructure for next 3-5 years]
  • [17:12] Andrew Linden: What is "OH"?
  • [17:13] Morgaine Dinova: Office Hours
  • [17:13] Rex Cronon: office hours:)
  • [17:13] Andrew Linden: Oh, office hours. ok
  • [17:13] Gooden Uggla: there's been a lot of exploits opening up lately
  • [17:13] Gooden Uggla: rex he's on the beta grid
  • [17:13] Charlette Proto: Zero is a good name for someone talking in terms of next 5 years in a grid that is 6yo
  • [17:13] Phantom Ninetails: Wouldn't mind seeing huge prims open up again, heh.
  • [17:13] Gooden Uggla: morris at 3pm
  • [17:13] Andrew Linden: I don't think there have been many new exploits, but there have been some that have come to light and been fixeed.
  • [17:13] Rex Cronon: thanks:)
  • [17:14] Arawn Spitteler: Sim Cossing seem orse, n 1.30.1, so I expect a 1.30.3, when all the security fixes pass QA
  • [17:14] Morgaine Dinova: Arawn: you mispelled arse ;-)
  • [17:14] Arawn Spitteler: Worse, as opposed to a little horse
  • [17:14] Ovaltine Constantine: Sim crossings are a lot better for me, but that's because I recompiled all my scripts to LSL
  • [17:14] Gooden Uggla: morgaine... he'll have to, mono is a abject failure, they'll need a new scripting VM
  • [17:15] Charlette Proto: must say lonetorus you are the ugliest av I've seen in the last 3 years (includes noobs and trolls)
  • [17:15] Phantom Ninetails: It's not Because of Mono.
  • [17:15] Morgaine Dinova: Gooden: nah, you're mixing teams --- that's Babbage for the scipting VM
  • [17:15] s been compiling to LSL, just to be on the safe side
  • [17:15] Andrew Linden: hrm.... MONO is a failure. A sad state of affairs.
  • [17:15] Rex Cronon: i can't blame arawn for typos. if he suffers from the same lag as i do. which makes it almost impossible o type without typos:(
  • [17:15] lonetorus Habilis: o_O
  • [17:15] Gooden Uggla: arawn compile your vehicles and attachments back to LSL, sim crossing will be fine
  • [17:16] Fisher Linden: Really, Andrew?
  • [17:16] Psi Merlin: Link for Oskar's new beta OH page http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta_Server_Office_Hours
  • [17:16] Phantom Ninetails: This bug happening with Mono started several server versions after Mono came out. It did not happen when Mono first came out. Sim crossing was comparable with LSL at that time.
  • [17:16] Charlette Proto: yvw, I'm just worried I'll not be able to sleep lone
  • [17:16] Andrew Linden: no, I'm just echoing what I heard. I don't think it has failed.
  • [17:16] Andrew Linden: Babbage just needs to fix some stuff.
  • [17:16] Gooden Uggla: "some"?
  • [17:16] Arawn Spitteler: It's not impossible, you just have to remember not to hit return before all the letters appear, and to go slowly back, lag by lag, and correct them.
  • [17:16] Andrew Linden: We certainly are not going to be doing much maintenance on LSL, but we'll work on MONO.
  • [17:17] Fisher Linden: I was hearing the exact opposite just yesterday that's why I asked!
  • [17:17] lonetorus Habilis: charlette, *grins* im hiding from ppl trying to distract me from my work
  • [17:17] Morgaine Dinova: Mono isn't a failure at all, it's just got some scheduling issues, and it's being loaded inline instead of in a separate thread so the sim is screwing itself. But it's vastly more efficient than LSO. Don't mistake a handful of problems for failure.
  • [17:17] Andrew Linden: I don't think the problems with MONO are very many, are they? What are the major problems we know about?
  • [17:17] Phantom Ninetails: Did anybody read what I said.
  • [17:18] Moon Metty: yes Morgaine
  • [17:18] Gooden Uggla: i see... so the performance degradations aren't caused by MONO's GC, then what's caused it?
  • [17:18] Andrew Linden: (1) Darling Brody says there is a memory leak in MONO.
  • [17:18] Charlette Proto: what Fisher? is LSL (still used a lot even on new stuff) comming back into dev
  • [17:18] Phantom Ninetails: It's not a fault of Mono, this problem was not here as long as mono was here.
  • [17:18] Andrew Linden: (2) Some lag creating new MONO scripts.
  • [17:18] Andrew Linden: (3) ?
  • [17:18] Liisa Runo: yes phantom, this is something LL should look at before hiding the MONO lag to another thread
  • [17:18] Gooden Uggla: no charlette
  • [17:18] Fury Rosewood: problems with deleting mono scripted objects
  • [17:18] Moon Metty: 3) the scheduler
  • [17:18] Phantom Ninetails: The Lindens changed something with mono several server versions after it was added that started creating this lag.
  • [17:19] Nakomis Lycia: Agree with ninetails. when mono first came out i really did'nt notice any difference. now, there is.
  • [17:19] Fury Rosewood: i guess that parallels with creation
  • [17:19] Phantom Ninetails: Indeed Liisa.
  • [17:20] Gooden Uggla: i never said it was introduced with MONO, just that MONO has become bad juju
  • [17:20] Twisted Laws: thats a hard statement to be sure is right (altho i agree to it partly) ... mono was fast when your script was the only mono script in a sim
  • [17:20] Charlette Proto: but wouldn't it be expected; at first the JIT compiler wasn't doing anything but new scripts and now it does tons of all those useless ones
  • [17:21] Morgaine Dinova: It's very hard to tell from our end what's happened in recent times with Mono. Babbage is very open indeed, but even his team doesn't seem to have pinned the trouble down yet.
  • [17:22] Gooden Uggla: morgaine, no oone is talking to us about it, just talking around it
  • [17:22] Phantom Ninetails: It could be related to the code added to gather data on script resource usage.
  • [17:23] Rex Cronon: don't vehicles that use mono have a harder time on sim crossings?
  • [17:23] Gooden Uggla: we were told 2 days ago, however, that it's due to be fixed in 2Q of next year
  • [17:23] Gooden Uggla: or at least, that's it's priority
  • [17:23] Arawn Spitteler: SL is due for release in 2002
  • [17:23] Ovaltine Constantine: Anything that uses mono has a harder time on sim crossings, in my experience
  • [17:24] Morgaine Dinova: Babbage fully accepts that there's an issue, and speaks openly about it. It's not brished under the carpet ... although who knows if that means that time will be assigned to redesign that part of the VM. Design problems aren't as easy to fix as bugs.
  • [17:24] Morgaine Dinova: s/brished/brushed/
  • [17:24] Gooden Uggla: yup
  • [17:25] Gooden Uggla: i'm not bagging on babbage, dude does amazing things with what little he's given
  • [17:25] Andrew Linden: Ok good to know Babbage is still available at office hours or some other channel.
  • [17:25] Arawn Spitteler: 3AM SLT
  • [17:25] Morgaine Dinova: Andrew: 3am PDT, haha ... hard time for americans (I'm in UK, it's fine)
  • [17:26] Andrew Linden: Ah yeah
  • [17:26] Moon Metty: :)
  • [17:26] Arawn Spitteler: I'm in Connecticut, where 6AM is lost in the morning mytht
  • [17:26] Nakomis Lycia: I'm usualy up till 6am o,,o
  • [17:26] Fury Rosewood: c.c
  • [17:26] Fury Rosewood: weirdo
  • [17:26] Fury Rosewood pokes nako
  • [17:26] Ardy Lay: Yeah, that was 5AM for me, after being up almost all night working on some stuff with friends in AU.
  • [17:26] Fisher Linden: 3am. yummy.
  • [17:26] Psi Merlin: Hard for me in the UK - RL work get's in the way :(
  • [17:26] Nakomis Lycia: Old work schedule :p
  • [17:27] Moon Metty: SVC-93 oops sorry Arawn, that slipped out
  • [17:27] ROTATION and llSetRot incorrectly implemented for child prims
  • [17:27] Kaluura Boa: ROFL
  • [17:28] Moon Metty: :D
  • [17:28] Arawn Spitteler: Is there yet a sim crossing jira linked to SVC-22
  • [17:28] Vehicles crossing region borders aren't always treated as vehicles and can get incorrectly returned if the destination parcel is no-entry or parcel-full
  • [17:28] Moon Metty: oooooo
  • [17:28] Gooden Uggla: i suppose that's a question we'd all like someone to go to the policy makers with... "why does the dev roadmap show such a serious problem with performance being delayed till the middle of next year?"
  • [17:28] Morgaine Dinova: There's a dev roadmap?
  • [17:29] Arawn Spitteler: The Dev Roadmap allows time for those making promises to find new jobs
  • [17:29] Morgaine Dinova: lol
  • [17:29] Gooden Uggla: yes, LL has internal planning, even if it doesn't look like it
  • [17:29] Gooden Uggla: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895
  • [17:29] Avatar entering sim or rezzing object causes sim to freeze for up to 30 seconds - everything stops for everybody there
  • [17:29] Rezzing Mono scripted object cripples sim FPS
  • [17:29] Andrew Linden: Yeah, some people at LL are trying to create a roadmap
  • [17:30] office hours is half over
  • [17:30] Ovaltine Constantine things 4196 should be marked as a showstopper because it literally stops the show for up to 30 seconds at a time
  • [17:30] Andrew Linden: dunno what all projects they are balancing
  • [17:30] Ovaltine Constantine: thinks*
  • [17:30] Morgaine Dinova: I saw one a year ago, but thought it was old and unmaintained
  • [17:30] Arawn Spitteler: So, 1.30.2 will be fixing security issues; when can we hope for 1.30.3?
  • [17:30] Gooden Uggla: it's beyond comprehension that M wants to push SL as a conferencing and EDU tool when we can barely get half the avs in a sim than we could a year ago
  • [17:31] Rex Cronon: if u go to zindra u can get sex ed:)
  • [17:31] Gooden Uggla: yup, but ya can't have an orgy...
  • [17:31] Nakomis Lycia: I think part of that comes from an increase in avatar desgin and attachement detail/scripted functions.
  • [17:31] Gooden Uggla: go figure...
  • [17:31] Charlette Proto: haha education and business without service guarantee, glad I went to Real Life™ university
  • [17:31] Simon Linden: you need more than 40 for that?
  • [17:32] Ovaltine Constantine: Maybe
  • [17:32] Fury Rosewood: i agree nako
  • [17:32] Rex Cronon: lol
  • [17:32] Gooden Uggla: you can't move with more than 30 anyways
  • [17:32] Fury Rosewood: things have gotten more complex the past years
  • [17:32] Gooden Uggla: not with prims and scripts out
  • [17:32] Morgaine Dinova: I wonder if Zero is going to work on sim scalability too as part of "infrastructure". Some 18 months ago, he said in an OH point blank that No, SL's sims would not be scaled in any big way. Could be a change of plan now!
  • [17:32] Twisted Laws: we had 42 people in sandbox cordova yesterday :p
  • [17:32] Gooden Uggla: how was performance?
  • [17:32] Twisted Laws: ok
  • [17:32] Gooden Uggla: i remeber that sim ran pretty well
  • [17:33] Moon Metty: was that right after the restart , Twisted?
  • [17:33] Twisted Laws: maybe goguen tho
  • [17:33] Simon Linden: well, we have 24 here and are still running at 45 fps
  • [17:33] Twisted Laws: no, it was a pilot region
  • [17:33] Phantom Ninetails: I think it was Sandbox Goguen
  • [17:33] Liisa Runo always likes to remind ppl that 80% of our scripts are to get around silly limits that serve no purpose
  • [17:33] Simon Linden: I know a lot depends on what's going on
  • [17:33] Gooden Uggla: this sim was restarted in the last 24 hours
  • [17:33] Rex Cronon: if everybody here got out a gun and started shooting things might go down the hill:(
  • [17:33] Gooden Uggla: and isn't terribly scripted beyond what we're wearing
  • [17:33] Simon Linden: yeah Rex, that tends to ruin the party
  • [17:34] Twisted Laws: they were in goguen, lol
  • [17:34] Gooden Uggla: and people that attend these tend to be responsible about attactments
  • [17:34] Morgaine Dinova: He was really strong about it on that day, something like "If you want regions to scale to many avs, a third party will have to do it." I was quite shocked. :-) Hope the plan has changed now.
  • [17:34] Andrew Linden: Yeah, I was wondering what the uptime of that region was.
  • [17:34] Charlette Proto: nothing on me is scritpted besides the AO and Mysti running with only a movelock on
  • [17:34] Ovaltine Constantine: That reminds me, when are we getting those tools to see what our own script times are? (Or did I dream that?)
  • [17:34] Andrew Linden: Huh? Zero said that scaling the number of avs would require 3rd party?! That doesn't make sense to me.
  • [17:35] Kaluura Boa: You didn't dream.. I heard it too
  • [17:35] Charlette Proto: BTW will we ever see avatar/object script cost for all residents not just admins
  • [17:35] URLmap service said:OK (status 200)
  • [17:35] You can now control this object via the central command module, please write down this unique name for the central command module configuration notecard:

Unique name: SpireTEKKON05

  • [17:35] Andrew Linden: Charlette, that is a question for Babbage I think. I thought that was one of the projects he was working on.
  • [17:35] Gooden Uggla: estate owners have those tools, as a cumulative measurement
  • [17:35] Charlette Proto: script time here is 14.5 out of 22 so it clearly is a problem
  • [17:35] Gooden Uggla: on their land, anyways
  • [17:36] Morgaine Dinova: Andrew: if you were in AWG you'd see how that works --- Region Domains are separate, and can be owned, administered and even designed/implemented by a third party, and then added to SL. It was in that context.
  • [17:36] Charlette Proto: I may start doing the babage OH too
  • [17:37] Moon Metty: scripts are running good on this region
  • [17:37] Gooden Uggla: morgaine, i'd pay big to have my estate separated from the grid architecture like that
  • [17:37] Charlette Proto: spare time here now is 0 all the time, even Korea is never so bad except for troll attacks
  • [17:37] Andrew Linden: I see we've moved to server-1.30.1 in this region
  • [17:37] Gooden Uggla: yes andrew
  • [17:37] Morgaine Dinova: Andrew: And of course there hasn't been any increase in sim scalability over the two years of AWG, so it's as Zero said --- that has not been part of the plan. Actual scalability has decreased, as the avs are now more demanding.
  • [17:38] Charlette Proto: Moon look at the Time Details in Statistics; nothing left for other tasks
  • [17:38] Liisa Runo: scripts are what makes SL tick, im not at all suprized that they take most of the time in most places
  • [17:38] Simon Linden: By scalability, do you mean hosting more AVs?
  • [17:38] Charlette Proto: frame time is 23ms and 15 of this is script
  • [17:38] Gooden Uggla: morgaine wwhen was that?
  • [17:38] Moon Metty: yeah, it's not full speed, it's about 85%
  • [17:38] Andrew Linden: That's what I thought. scalability = more avs and more objects, not larger regions/simulator
  • [17:39] Morgaine Dinova: Gooden: the estimated time for OGP to give us that is about 3 years from now. But we picked that number out of thin air, in the VWRAP workgroup at the IETF
  • [17:39] Ardy Lay: You should see what happens when I rez my brickpile. :-(
  • [17:39] Gooden Uggla: ok, thanks
  • [17:39] Charlette Proto: what I'm refering to Moon is that some of us are script whor*s and prolly don't even realise
  • [17:39] Gooden Uggla: they assume we won't be on stanford's grid by then...
  • [17:40] Morgaine Dinova: Scalability has MANY dimensions. The particular one we're talking about just now is avs per region against user population growth. It's an important dimension of scalability, but there are many others too.
  • [17:40] Simon Linden: FWIW the top 4 or 5 scripts here are on AVs, so it seems to be attachments. THat's not surprising since the region runs fine when empty, so the difference is having more people (or whatever you are) here
  • [17:41] Twisted Laws: can you say who?
  • [17:41] Simon Linden: ... and nobody is rezzing new stuff
  • [17:41] Ardy Lay: Simon, am I near the top?
  • [17:41] Torry Baar: Torry Baar
  • [17:41] Rex Cronon: i don't think u should strive to have a region fine only when empty;)
  • [17:41] You decline Club Zero Gravity from A group member named Lsai Aeon.
  • [17:41] Liisa Runo: remove pointless script limits and im good with ~scripts in my AV, now i prolly have about 80
  • [17:41] Phantom Ninetails: I wonder if I'm high on that list
  • [17:41] Nakomis Lycia: That kind goes back to what was mentioned earlier; individuals having the tools and awareness to understand what scripts they are wearing and what harm/resources they are using and/or causing.
  • [17:41] Liisa Runo: with 5*
  • [17:41] Gooden Uggla: previously, scalability seems to have been planned on the grid as a whole, more av's and regions to be added to the grid, not performance factors in individual regions
  • [17:42] Simon Linden: Yeah, having tools to show this and other info (such as physics cost) would be a big step
  • [17:42] Ardy Lay: It would be fun to have a place to go that would tell you what your script load is.
  • [17:42] Liisa Runo: empty sim
  • [17:42] Simon Linden: There's some work going on for scripts that will have more info
  • [17:43] Ardy Lay: I currently find an empty region for sale and use it.
  • [17:43] Gooden Uggla: only estate owners standing on their sim have those tools
  • [17:43] Moon Metty: nice, Simon
  • [17:43] Arawn Spitteler: It sounds like a problem, of taking a gallon of water from a lake.
  • [17:43] Arawn Spitteler: The last gallon is much slower than the first
  • [17:43] Charlette Proto: seriously 15 out of 22ms frame time with 0.2 to spare is a huge proportion dedicated to script
  • [17:43] Gooden Uggla: ardy, if you ever need to test abnything, IM me and i'll give you a sandbox and make you a temp estate manager - you'll have the tools
  • [17:43] Nakomis Lycia: I use myself as an example. I was wearing a set of gauntlets that had a resize script in every prim. There was some 1200 scripts total amount both left and right arms. I had no idea about this as there was no readme included with the package. Only figured it out after I found i couldn't TP anymore and Ardy helped me locate the issue.
  • [17:43] Rex Cronon: even if such tools existed, there are some scripts that start working only if some specific requirments are met. therefore such tools would be useless
  • [17:44] Morgaine Dinova: Gooden: yes, that was the view Philip had about 4 years ago, when I used to discuss it with him on his blog. But he agreed at that time that SL was only scalable if everyone stayed at home, not if they travelled to popular events. :-)))) Unfortunate;y, while he agreed and said (publicly in blog) that his devs were working on it, nothing ever happened to solve it :-(
  • [17:44] Simon Linden: True, there are a lot of things that aren't much of a load until some event, then they rez, move or do something and eat up a lot of CPU
  • [17:45] Gooden Uggla: morgaine... phillip says a lotta things that aren't true...
  • [17:45] Gooden Uggla: he has wishes, not truths
  • [17:45] Morgaine Dinova: We used to discuss scalability in depth, until Zero said "not happening". That kind of killed the topic :-)))))
  • [17:45] Charlette Proto: these days it is always script that eats the CPU time physics are usually about a fifth of the script time
  • [17:46] Simon Linden: These chairs are script hogs because they grab control events for that page up/down feature. That's a good example of scripts not designed well or a feature that's not worth the lag
  • [17:46] Simon Linden: err, not worth the cost
  • [17:46] Twisted Laws: maybe if they only took that control for the first 30 seconds :p
  • [17:46] Charlette Proto: agree simon but there are very few chairs so it must be the stuff people wear
  • [17:46] Arawn Spitteler: We never invoke those events, how can they lag?
  • [17:47] Gooden Uggla: lately, color and size scripts in each prim of complex objects, like boots and hair, are bringing sims to their knees, there needs to be a way to address that
  • [17:47] Andrew Linden: the chairs must poll for the triggers of the events
  • [17:47] Moon Metty: i think avatar script time is still added to the seat
  • [17:47] Arawn Spitteler: Pole? I thought they'd just wait
  • [17:47] Charlette Proto: lots of people don't delete colour and resize scripts, but it is usually the HUD scanners that cause more lag
  • [17:48] Morgaine Dinova: I'm so waiting for Zero to come out of stealth mode. He said on Tuesday that it'll be some months before he can say anything.
  • [17:48] Gooden Uggla: chairs are constantly listening for the jira prefix sets, of course they're laggy
  • [17:48] Arawn Spitteler: Isn't that the Meeter?
  • [17:48] Rex Cronon: the chairs don't listen to that
  • [17:48] Simon Linden: Ah, that may be right. I'm thinking of llTakeControls() - if you do that, the events on your system get sent to the sim, where it runs the scripts. If it's rarely used, it's a waste of network and script usage
  • [17:49] Gooden Uggla: whatever they listen for, it's constant
  • [17:49] Twisted Laws: sitting on an object used ot be the only way to figure what an avatars script cost was
  • [17:49] Charlette Proto: what the chairs just go up and down and make extra ones
  • [17:49] Twisted Laws: so it must add the avatar to the chair
  • [17:49] Moon Metty: i once rezzed 8000 listeners and spammed the channel ...
  • [17:49] Fury Rosewood: o.x
  • [17:49] Moon Metty: it didn't use much resources
  • [17:49] Nakomis Lycia: *crash*
  • [17:49] Morgaine Dinova: Do we really have to guess? Can't the chair scripts be released?
  • [17:50] Gooden Uggla: 8000 outta a billion channels?
  • [17:50] Andrew Linden: hehe, yeah I once challenged the people at the office hour to crash a Havok4 region... back before it was fully released.
  • [17:50] Moon Metty: they were all listening to the same channel
  • [17:50] Andrew Linden: someone crashed one in about 4 minutes, using a recursive shout+listen army
  • [17:50] Gooden Uggla: sadly, i know how to do that in an instant simon...
  • [17:50] Arawn Spitteler: Was it a L$10,000 Prze for each of the first 30?
  • [17:50] Liisa Runo: still takes 1 prim to insta-crash H4 :P
  • [17:50] Andrew Linden: Yeah, that one Arawn.
  • [17:50] Simon Linden: The chairs run from 0.002 ms up to 0.4 ... but they add up. They aren't a serious problem, but not a great use of the limited resources
  • [17:50] Gooden Uggla: yup liisa
  • [17:51] Andrew Linden: But you had to provide the recipe in 24 hours or something. I think I handed out 3 or 4 prizes.
  • [17:51] Tegg Bode: I've got a 16m plot in my sim with a scanning script running continually, probably some sort of Landbot type thing, owner hasn't logged into SL™ sins 2007 as far as I can tell
  • [17:51] Gooden Uggla: 0.4 ms is a significant chunk o' script time
  • [17:51] Tegg Bode: since*
  • [17:51] Charlette Proto: good one tegg
  • [17:52] Arawn Spitteler: I cleverly sent griefers to bore the sims to death, but never got credit
  • [17:52] Moon Metty: avatar script time is still added to the seat
  • [17:52] Moon Metty: did you knopw that Simon?
  • [17:52] Gooden Uggla: prolly took too long arawn, everything runs slow :)
  • [17:52] Simon Linden: Really? I didn't know that
  • [17:52] Gooden Uggla: tegg, if it's mainland, AR the object
  • [17:53] Moon Metty: it's old behaviour
  • [17:53] Moon Metty: i assumed it was removed after the avatar time was listed in topscripts
  • [17:53] Moon Metty: but apparently not
  • [17:53] Simon Linden: I can guess why, it's a side-effect of how we link things together when an AV sits on an object
  • [17:53] Gooden Uggla: no moon, still 2 objects, and the chair is higher than the av
  • [17:53] Moon Metty: yeah
  • [17:54] Moon Metty: and there's of course svc-3819
  • [17:54] in estate tools is inaccurate
  • [17:54] Arawn Spitteler: Hi, Xe, a seat should eventually rez in the southeast
  • [17:55] office hours is almost over
  • [17:55] Gooden Uggla: i used to wondewr about that too,m but figured it's a different metric form, not averaged
  • [17:55] Charlette Proto: well we are back to being able to see one's own and other's script time before anything improves, for now we seem to be guessing too much
  • [17:55] Moon Metty: yes, and guessing our own scripts too
  • [17:55] Gooden Uggla: however, an estate owner can still compare within the measurement system, you learn what a high script time is in each
  • [17:56] Torry Baar: mocha
  • [17:56] Moon Metty: the best way is go to aditi, find a clean region, and rez many of your scripts, then look in the statistics window
  • [17:56] Simon Linden: If anyone knows of a nicer table/chair system, let me know. Maybe it's time for a remodel
  • [17:56] Moon Metty: ,
  • [17:56] Charlette Proto: we could sit on the floor Simon
  • [17:56] Ardy Lay: I see a streaker.
  • [17:56] Gooden Uggla: i like that it looks like a greedy table :)
  • [17:57] Charlette Proto: this would be the most efficient
  • [17:57] Fury Rosewood: D:
  • [17:57] Simon Linden: Or BYOC
  • [17:57] Arawn Spitteler: I've tried for a one prim bench, but can't tell where to assign the Avatar Target
  • [17:57] Andrew Linden: true... static chairs
  • [17:57] Torry Baar: Mocha
  • [17:57] Kaluura Boa: Laundry day...
  • [17:57] Simon Linden: Torry - you have to go back to the platform for the next step
  • [17:57] Skee jetpack (X-Flight): All Go
  • [17:57] Rex Cronon: i heard that prims r good for sitting. even though u tend to use only half of the sit:)
  • [17:58] Charlette Proto: sitting on the grass would be best since not everyone can sit on a chosen point of the floor here
  • [17:58] Arawn Spitteler: Hi, Christo
  • [17:58] Moon Metty: what a funny cloud
  • [17:58] Morgaine Dinova brings out a sketchpad and practices drawing nudes
  • [17:58] Christo Panache: Hello
  • [17:58] Arawn Spitteler: Welcome to Second Life
  • [17:58] Christo Panache: Thank you.
  • [17:59] Rex Cronon: lol. u must be getting good at it mrgaine:)
  • [17:59] Rex Cronon: morgaine*
  • [17:59] Morgaine Dinova: LOL, aye, no shortage of models in SL :-)
  • [17:59] Charlette Proto: smells trouble - born today and attending OH
  • [17:59] Andrew Linden: for a minute I thought you were talking to me. I can feel a headache coming on...
  • [17:59] Arawn Spitteler: Worse, he's able to sit, but not dress
  • [18:00] Thank you for coming to Linden office hours
  • [18:00] Nakomis Lycia: Least he's got shoes.. yes?
  • [18:00] Gooden Uggla: christo, i'm going to send you a folder of swimsuits, just open your inventory with the button on the bottom of the screen and open it and look for the word "absentia"
  • [18:00] Gooden Uggla: then drag one on you
  • [18:00] Gooden Uggla: one*
  • [18:00] Christo Panache: thank you! I don't know how to put clothes on.
  • [18:00] Rex Cronon: u click on folder with lcothing and choose to wera them:)
  • [18:01] Gooden Uggla: click your inventory button on the bottom right of your screen
  • [18:01] Rex Cronon: wear*
  • [18:01] Arawn Spitteler wonders if there's a folder of lcothing.
  • [18:01] Charlette Proto: so you knew how to take them off Christo, but don't know how to wear them, we really need those intro to Second Life™ videos
  • [18:01] Gooden Uggla: then click the little triangle next to the folder
  • [18:02] Arawn Spitteler: I should tell you of the time I shut down Bloomingdales?
  • [18:02] Andrew Linden: yeah, well there is still a "remove all clothes" option in the UI, isn't there?
  • [18:02] Moon Metty: i hope you have a productive day tomorrow Andrew
  • [18:02] Simon Linden: I have to run ... one more meeting before the end of the day
  • [18:02] Andrew Linden: Wow, a meeting that starts this late?
  • [18:02] Rex Cronon: at least he doesn't have any xcite attachments on:)
  • [18:02] Simon Linden: Thanks everyone for coming
  • [18:02] Rex Cronon: tc simon
  • [18:02] Gooden Uggla: then drag a pair of shorts onto your avatar by holding your left mouse button down on the shorts and pulling it on your body
  • [18:02] Twisted Laws: bye, thanks
  • [18:02] Tegg Bode: Yeah better put something on or someone you don't like might slap a chastity belt, chains & collar on you locking you in ther sim dungeon
  • [18:02] Moon Metty: thank you Simon :)
  • [18:02] Andrew Linden: I have to go for burnout.
  • [18:02] Morgaine Dinova: Gotta get Torley to make two videos: "How to take your clothes off", and "How to put clothes on".

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