User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2010 03 12

Transcript

[16:00]	Ashiri Sands:	hihi
[16:00]	Rex Cronon:	hello everybody
[16:00]	Alexia Leborski:	Hello
[16:00]	Arawn Spitteler	thinks Alexia should now give PAthfinder a call.
[16:00]	Quarterback Orcenhall:	quarterback orcenhall
[16:01]	Rex Cronon:	hiii...
[16:01]	Alexia Leborski:	Hi...ardy...we are in our usual chairs...LOL
[16:01]	Kaluura Boa:	Happy new year, Morgaine... =^_^=
[16:01]	Alexia Leborski:	there was an earthquake at my SL home...must have been a 4.5
[16:01]	Ardy Lay:	Yes, I have been sitting here since sometime in July 2009 I think.
[16:01]	Eddi Decosta:	hi Andrew ㋡
[16:01]	Morgaine Dinova:	Thanks Kalura. I really need a new tag :P
[16:01]	Andrew Linden:	hello
[16:01]	Ashiri Sands:	hiya Andrew
[16:01]	Arawn Spitteler:	I was just watching a package on Hoarders, a condition of imminant importance, with so many people moving from their homes: I think my Stirring Cauldron might be in season, more broadly than I thought.
[16:01]	Alexia Leborski:	yeah? why?
[16:02]	Eddi Decosta:	how are you before the weekend? ㋡
[16:02]	Rex Cronon:	hello andrew
[16:02]	Ardy Lay:	Hi Andrew
[16:02]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hi Andrew :-)
[16:02]	Alexia Leborski:	hahahaha
[16:02]	Rex Cronon:	.
[16:02]	Alexia Leborski:	hmmmmmmmm
[16:02]	Alexia Leborski:	Hi Andrew
[16:03]	Andrew Linden:	Simon Linden won't be able to make it today.
[16:03]	Morgaine Dinova:	Awww
[16:03]	Andrew Linden:	He's going to be attending some Friday evening performance of something, I think.
[16:03]	Arawn Spitteler:	Hi, Andrew, I was just looking to append something to our sacred list of SVC-22 SVC-03 and SVC-2931, but I forget its number. About the Save Object to My Inventory.
[16:03]
[16:03]	llSetLinkPrimitiveParams content	breakage, only moves agents 54 meters now
[16:03]	Vehicles crossing	region borders aren't always treated as vehicles and can get incorrectly returned if the destination parcel is no-entry or parcel-full
[16:04]	Eddi Decosta:	svc-3 ? LOL
[16:04]	Andrew Linden:	Ok Arawn, what is the new item?
[16:04]	Andrew Linden:	Oh I see, you forgot the number.
[16:04]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I live!
[16:04]	Kaluura Boa:	svc-93
[16:04]	ROTATION and	llSetRot incorrectly implemented for child prims
[16:05]	Liisa Runo:	i wonder if there is some reason that SVC-2931 happened, why it got limited?
[16:05]	Andrew Linden:	SVC-3 is resolved.
[16:05]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	SVC-3?
[16:05]	Arawn Spitteler:	svc-3947
[16:05]	Save Object	Back to My Inventory
[16:05]	Eddi Decosta:	grrrr, i hate taht on 2.0 always write for nothing when i dont click on the type bar .....
[16:06]	Arawn Spitteler:	It's reopened, because Soft tried to close a similar sounding issue.
[16:07]	Andrew Linden:	Ok, I'll keep that bug in mind when looking for stuff to fix.
[16:07]	Andrew Linden:	I was trying to get to region crossing bugs this week
[16:07]	Andrew Linden:	but didn't succeed
[16:08]	Andrew Linden:	instread I got sidetracked by a crash bug emergency and then a permissions bug (non emergency)
[16:08]	Arawn Spitteler:	There was an SEC issue, that the option was closed to handle, but there must be a more elegant handling.
[16:08]	Arawn Spitteler:	Perms are important, and also a demand for Elegance.
[16:08]	Andrew Linden:	Oh, that rings a bell... the SEC issue
[16:09]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Which is why they don't work in v2.0 ;)
[16:09]	Andrew Linden:	I recall stepping through the problem with another LL dev and concluding that it could probably be reimplemented
[16:09]	s on	SL2, and a bit slow user side.
[16:09]	Andrew Linden:	however I forget the details now, and another thing...
[16:09]	Morgaine Dinova:	Not sure what your sim-side debugging environment is like, but do you have a scripting system of the PyOGP type but interfacing to your intra-region handover protocol instead, for testing?
[16:09]	Andrew Linden:	Phoenix concluded that it couldn't be fixed
[16:10]	Andrew Linden:	but maybe he meant it couldn't be fixed *easily*
[16:10]	Andrew Linden:	Morgaine, some people here at LL are playing with PyOGP
[16:11]	Andrew Linden:	I once downloaded PyOGP codebase to see if it would work for something I needed, but decided not.
[16:11]	Andrew Linden:	Specifically, I think Enus Linden is looking to use PyOGP for automatic testing purposes.
[16:11]	Morgaine Dinova:	Oh, I know, lots of you. :-) The latest is Joshua, who has just produced a Jabber and IRC gateway for the forcoming IETF VWRAP meetting --- he did it in a stunningly short amount of time!
[16:12]	Morgaine Dinova:	Using PyOGP
[16:13]	Morgaine Dinova:	I was following up your point about handover bug though, so it's couldn't be PyOGP, different purpose entirely. But a scripting system that interfaces to your intra-region protocol could be very powerful for you.
[16:14]	Andrew Linden:	Yes, it would be useful for automated testing. And maybe as a harness for shorter-term testing on experimental code.
[16:14]	Morgaine Dinova	nods
[16:15]	Andrew Linden:	I expect when I get to region crossing bugs I'll be doing only a few region crossings
[16:15]	Morgaine Dinova	chuckles
[16:15]	Andrew Linden:	and spending most of my time examining the details of those crossings
[16:15]	Eddi Decosta:	Morgaine, can you find me the french docs on PyOGP , if you have time? ㋡
[16:16]	Morgaine Dinova:	It's a concurrency problem. Having done my research in concurrency, I appreciate your pain there :-)
[16:16]	Xugu Madison:	Andrew, this might be so obvious that it's not worth saying, but tried simulating packet loss while doing sim crosssings?
[16:17]	Andrew Linden:	Xugu, no I haven't tried that yet. I think most of the bugs I'll be looking at have to do with new data that needs to be included
[16:17]	Andrew Linden:	either during region crossings, or just between region neighbors
[16:17]	Morgaine Dinova:	Eddi: I wasn't even aware that anything had been internationalized for PyOGP docs. (Anyway, what docs? There's a few wiki pages :P)
[16:18]	Andrew Linden:	such as SVC-22 which requires some parcel data to be shared between neighbors
[16:20]	Rex Cronon:	hearing the crickets here...
[16:20]	Andrew Linden:	Oh, I should mention before I forget... I'll be on vacation for the week of March 22
[16:20]	Xugu Madison:	Have fun Andrew!
[16:20]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Yes yes :)
[16:20]	Rex Cronon:	right. enjoy it:)
[16:20]	Andrew Linden:	so Simon will probably be the only Linden attending for March 23 and 26th
[16:20]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	One wonders what lindens do for vacation.
[16:20]	Morgaine Dinova:	Aye, have a good one --- preferably without your laptop :-)
[16:21]	Liisa Runo:	Have fun vacation, and if you go to some exotic place, bring me a stone and a stick
[16:21]	Andrew Linden:	unless he recruits someone to come with him
[16:21]	misty Putzo:	http://tinychat.com/jjccc
[16:21]	misty Putzo:	ooooo soz
[16:21]	Andrew Linden:	I'll bring my laptop, but it probably won't be very useful in the wilderness.
[16:22]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	HEhe, there's always solitaire.
[16:22]	Morgaine Dinova:	Heh
[16:22]	Ashiri Sands:	ah, truely escaping !
[16:22]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	It will be nice for you to not have to worry about anything.
[16:22]	Eddi Decosta:	ojh sorry nice for you Andrew ㋡
[16:23]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I love the fact that RL has megaprims enabled X)
[16:23]	Morgaine Dinova:	HAHAHA Seb
[16:24]	Liisa Runo:	RL megaprims are enabled, but 0.5meter wooden cube cost you like 100$ or something... i prefer SL
[16:24]	Rex Cronon:	rl already had a mega-prim revolution. here the revolution died:(
[16:25]	Andrew Linden:	so another LL dev was telling me...
[16:25]	Andrew Linden:	Squid Linden has been working on instrumenting the simulator with some better profiling tools
[16:25]	Xugu Madison	's with Liisa on this. Mostly because his RL living space is "limited"
[16:25]	Andrew Linden:	and had a test region up with a bunch of other Lindens using it
[16:25]	Xugu Madison:	you have a Squid Linden? I mean, instrumenting, excellent!
[16:26]	Andrew Linden:	and the region was running slow
[16:26]	Andrew Linden:	so he profiled it and found lots of fertile ground for making improvements
[16:26]	Andrew Linden:	naturally one of the largest hotspots was our interestlist code
[16:26]	Andrew Linden:	which many of us have been complaining about internally for a long time
[16:27]	Andrew Linden:	wondering why people higher up weren't putting its overhaul on the schedule
[16:27]	Andrew Linden:	it has been on the schedule now for a while... somewhere later this year I think
[16:27]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I've like the client to get ALL object data. Let the client handle culling.
[16:28]	Andrew Linden:	anyway with the prfiling tools that are going out it will be easier for the resource allocators here at LL to make better decisions on where to focus
[16:28]	Andrew Linden	hopes.
[16:28]	Xugu Madison:	TEchwolf, wouldn't that be an insane amount of bandwidth though?
[16:28]	Xugu Madison	nods to Andrew "Excellent!"
[16:29]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, we need to be able to do culling at the server side
[16:29]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Not if probperlly done. Right now, the sim handles culling. The order to recived object can be the same, only imporove, but drop the active culling.
[16:29]	Andrew Linden:	however, what would be nice would be to make the data streams subscribable
[16:29]	Andrew Linden:	so a client with lots of bandwidth could just subscribe to more data streams
[16:30]
[16:30]	Andrew Linden:	and if we can group multiple subscribers to one data stream then we should be able to make the interestlist stuff more efficient
[16:30]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I have 6M, most of the one i've talked to eaither got 1Meg or less or have geater then 5M, like 10 to 50Meg of some cable modems and FOIS
[16:30]	Xugu Madison	has 2mb
[16:30]	Alexia Leborski:	when you are using the term subsribable...are you speaking in terms of paid subscriptions or are you merely referring to provisioning?
[16:31]	Xugu Madison:	Although it's outbound from the server I was mostly thinking of...
[16:31]	Andrew Linden:	no, not paid subscriptions -- I mean the simulator would provide a list of all streams available to the client
[16:31]	Alexia Leborski:	...just curious
[16:31]	Andrew Linden:	and then the client could tell the simulator which streams it was interested in
[16:32]	Andrew Linden:	which would make it easier for a low-end client (handheld computer, for example) to subscribe to a minimal set of streams (nearby streams)
[16:32]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Hmm...have a fix number of streams, each one corrisponding to a block of area on the sim....each cleint would then figure out what stream to connect too just by location and the sim just keeps a fixed list of objects to send out on taht stream....that can work very well if implemted correctory.
[16:33]	Ardy Lay:	I'd love to be able to exclude gesture noises from downloading at times.
[16:33]	Techwolf Lupindo:	And a text only client would subscript to zero streams.
[16:34]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Ardy, that would totally exclude you from communicating with those of whom gestures are the primary means of communication!
[16:34]	Liisa Runo:	^^
[16:34]	Ardy Lay:	Sabastean, exactly!
[16:34]	Ashiri Sands	giggles.
[16:34]	Xugu Madison	was about to say, he fails to see the issue :)
[16:34]	Andrew Linden:	the subscription model for interestlist would probably start with location based streams, but perhaps the actual data types would be differentiated too
[16:34]	Alexia Leborski:	...such as provisioning for additional bandwidth ...on demand...as opposed to paying a premium service charge for additional bandwidth and connection speed
[16:34]	Sebastean Steamweaver	winks at Xugu.
[16:34]	Ashiri Sands:	It is true that some people only seem to communicate with gestures.
[16:35]	Andrew Linden:	so a client might not be interested in all audio... maybe
[16:35]	Xugu Madison	does wonder if making subscriptions normally match the parcel you're on, would make sense...
[16:36]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I hope when the http texture switch is turned on, rezzing performance improves.
[16:36]	Ardy Lay:	While you are at it, make a Windlight Parameter stream. :-)
[16:36]	Andrew Linden:	"rezzing" has become an ambiguous term
[16:36]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Not rezzing prims, rezzing the sence on the computer. right now its slow due to very slow texture downloads.
[16:37]	Andrew Linden:	it is used for the act of creating objects (it's original use) and also for objects showing up in view
[16:37]	Eddi Decosta:	loll, Ardy the windlight affect the moap when i try to read some website ㋡
[16:37]	Xugu Madison:	Must run, need to be awake again in 6 hours. Night all!
[16:37]	Andrew Linden:	I assume you're using it in the second sense
[16:37]	Ashiri Sands:	bye Xugu
[16:37]	Rex Cronon:	tc xugu
[16:37]	Eddi Decosta:	bye bye Xugu ㋡
[16:37]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Ever sence the last rollout and viewer 2.0, getting data from the sim has been very slow. Takes over 5 mintes to rez the are you TP into. Most of that time is grey prims.
[16:38]	Ashiri Sands:	Using Emerald?
[16:38]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I've been noticing that as well, actually.
[16:38]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Across all client.s
[16:38]	Ashiri Sands:	Oh, I've only really noticed it on one client
[16:38]	Eddi Decosta:	i use emerald and 1.23.5 some time
[16:39]	Ardy Lay:	I haven't really noticed texture downloading being slow consistently. It's just at moments when you all jump in here at the same time. :-)
[16:39]	Andrew Linden:	I think the HTTP texture download will indeed improve the flow of textures and will probably also improve the simulator performance
[16:40]	Andrew Linden:	however, it will take a while for all clients to move over to the HTTP texture download pipeline
[16:40]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I like to see the switch turn on sim side so folks can start debuggin it.
[16:40]	Andrew Linden:	so it will be a while before we can rip out the old pipeline from the simulator code
[16:40]	Eddi Decosta:	Ardy yeah, i notice that to, and each time i see a sculpty load, i notice a clothing texture rebake on my human avi
[16:40]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I'm using HTTP texture now, but it's tucked away in the "Develop" menu. I don't know why it's back in there if Linden prefers people use it.
[16:41]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Seb, that only affects teh map
[16:41]	Andrew Linden:	I dunno, I haven't been able to keep track of when HTTP texture will be turned on server-side
[16:41]	Andrew Linden:	I've asked around and the reply I get is: it is currently in testing now
[16:42]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Hmm
[16:42]	Jonathan Yap:	Andrew, I have http turned on in Snowglobe 1.3 and textures seem to load twice as fast
[16:42]	Ardy Lay:	Placeebo effect
[16:43]	Kaluura Boa:	=^_^=
[16:43]	Ardy Lay:	Simulator CAP is off
[16:43]	Ardy Lay:	I'd love to catch it on again some day. That was fun.
[16:43]	Eddi Decosta:	on viewer 2.0 develop menu, what i supposed to observ when i check http textures?
[16:44]	Kaluura Boa:	A much faster map... At least that what you get with SnowGlobe
[16:44]	Arawn Spitteler:	Back to the subject of Subscription Lists, the use of Paid Membership, to limit who can implement MoaP, might be a good Premium Benni.
[16:44]	Arawn Spitteler:	Back Burner thought, really
[16:44]	Morgaine Dinova:	"It's slow", "It's fast" isn't engineering. We need the viewer to gather numbers.
[16:44]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, there are a bunch of people pondering what should be premium only and what should not
[16:45]	Andrew Linden:	when I consider the list I usually decide that most features should be free for all
[16:45]	Kaluura Boa:	Yeah... We pay. We should a little more than 300 L$ a week
[16:45]	Eddi Decosta:	Arwan, honestly im againts this .. cause i think all users have right to the moap ..
[16:45]	Kaluura Boa:	+have
[16:46]	Andrew Linden:	the only ones that should be premium-only are ones that are expensive to run
[16:46]	Arawn Spitteler:	All should see the MOAP, but should all produce?
[16:46]	Andrew Linden:	or that have more grief potential...
[16:46]	Saijanai Kuhn:	seeing how there are no simulator rsources used by moap, I think its a VERY bad idea
[16:46]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I still think LL needs to get away from the "premium" account idea, and I know I've said this a dozen times before, but they need to move to a modular charge system where people can purchase services they want.
[16:47]	Andrew Linden:	that is probably the right direction Sebastean
[16:47]	Arawn Spitteler:	I'd be leary of the Nickel and Dime nature of Modular, although it's otherwise sensible.
[16:47]	Morgaine Dinova:	There's no protection in MoaP currently. It's a Beta release, don't use it for MoaP except for short tests in a controlled parcel. Samuel is looking at the security issues.
[16:47]	Ardy Lay:	I think I would not subscribe to the random griefer service module. Don't have much use for that.
[16:47]	Andrew Linden:	however the only modularity there is in land ownership and a few other services (classifieds for example)
[16:48]	Andrew Linden:	er... the only current modularity
[16:48]	Eddi Decosta:	the Moap are implated for all resident in first time and honestly you need the premium account to have right at that or this .. and seriously i dont need to activ the moap only for premium member its a total disrimination.
[16:48]	Andrew Linden:	if there were premium and non-premium then it would be a step toward more modularity
[16:48]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Arawn, I don't think it needs to be nickle-and-dime. I think it can be reasonable, but it also allows LL to be more lucrative. A lot of people don't get premium accounts because of what they don't need, even if there are some things they would be willing to pay for.
[16:48]	Arawn Spitteler:	MoaP could be modular, and has griefing potential. Whether it should be free for all, can also be debated.
[16:49]	Morgaine Dinova:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-17772
[16:49]	powerful facility	totally without user protection
[16:49]	Eddi Decosta:	WHY YOU NEED TO PAID FOR HAVE MORE AND MORE SERVICES YOU CANT BE PRODUCTIV WITHOUT EXPENSIV CUST?
[16:49]	Rex Cronon:	there is a rumour going on that neil life could rip scripts, and that ll might have fixed it recently. how true it is?
[16:49]	Eddi Decosta:	geez
[16:49]	Alexia Leborski:	so far...I have seen absolutely no value proposition in the Premium Membership
[16:49]	Rex Cronon:	rumor*
[16:50]	Alexia Leborski:	I have tried the bennies and don't see any value...quite honestly
[16:50]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Eddi, the idea isn't to make everything a service, the idea is just to allow LL to break up the things they currently charge for, and perhaps a few future services, so that more people have access to them without having to pay the "big sum" for a premium account and getting a lot of what they don't need.
[16:50]	Arawn Spitteler:	That's a problem, where you might sell Jack your consulting services.
[16:51]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	If you don't need any of the services and are fine with what you have now, you don't have to pay for them.
[16:51]	Arawn Spitteler:	Non-Premies could go Mod, on their MoaP, but that's really for a late night thinking
[16:51]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	One thing i've mentioned that a lto of people would be willing to pay for, is being able to get homesteads from LL without having to own a full sim.
[16:52]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I think LL did that to avoid everyone getting homsteads instead of full sims, but people who needed and could afford them, still would.
[16:52]	Arawn Spitteler:	I think Homesteads could still be rented, or borrowed, from those with Full Sims.
[16:53]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Arawn, that's what I do currently with a few friends of mine.
[16:53]	Morgaine Dinova:	It won't happen, but if MoaP were to become Premium-only, and no protection is put into MoaP, then Premium members will be paying to get hacked :P
[16:53]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	And since it's on an at-cost basis, it isn't really an issue.
[16:53]	Eddi Decosta:	welcome at the new expensiv virtual world ..
[16:53]	Eddi Decosta:	your business, your world
[16:54]	Ashiri Sands:	I find that MoaP hasn't worked for me... I think "noScript" blocks it
[16:54]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Eddi, we're not talking about things that are currently free. We're talking about things that people already pay for.
[16:54]	Arawn Spitteler:	Do you expect your electricity fro Free? I could help you track down Nicolai, whereever he is today.
[16:54]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	If LL started offering homsteads, it would actually be cheaper in most cases because people wouldn't have to pay the markup of whoever they rent from.
[16:55]	Arawn Spitteler:	LL shouldn't undercut the middleman, as far as that goes.
[16:55]	Morgaine Dinova:	Ashiri: MoaP doesn't go through Firefox.
[16:55]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	You might have a point there Arawn, estate is a large part of SL's economy.
[16:55]	Eddi Decosta:	sorry Andrew, but im little furstrating and againts this idia ..
[16:56]	Arawn Spitteler:	Againstedness is welcome, in Brain Storming.
[16:56]	Andrew Linden:	Eddi, could you elaborate on exactly what you're against?
[16:57]	Eddi Decosta:	that proposition to have a premium member for active the moap plugings, honestly its riddiculouls ..
[16:58]	Andrew Linden:	Oh. I don't think that will be limited to premium accounts -- but I'm not positive.
[16:58]	Andrew Linden:	Personally I think there is value in just improving the funtionality and feature set of SL
[16:59]	Andrew Linden:	MOAP doesn't cost LL anything as a feature to support, beyond its implementation
[16:59]	Arawn Spitteler:	I thought I was being original; is it already posited? Pay to present, what's freee to view, is what funds our Penny Press.
[17:00]	Andrew Linden:	compared to other stuff like bottomless inventories which translate to hardware that must support the load and backups and all that
[17:00]	Eddi Decosta:	honlestly i love moap since the first time i have tested
[17:00]	Arawn Spitteler:	I haven't yet discovered how to place MoaP
[17:00]	Eddi Decosta:	and if some people abuse of moap its not mine trouble and i dont need to paid for this abuser ..
[17:01]	Morgaine Dinova:	MoaP is being marketted as "Shared Experience", so it would be bizarre if it were to be for some residents only. Seems highly unlikely, assuming that "Shared Experience" means something.
[17:01]	Arawn Spitteler:	I think there's a small griefing potential, where a tax would also filter, but I'm really just offering a comparative profit op
[17:02]	Eddi Decosta:	Arwan what griefing? lol
[17:02]	Techwolf Lupindo:	How about a prim litter tax?
[17:02]	Techwolf Lupindo:	That bi-plane been stuck on that ship for three weeks.
[17:02]	Andrew Linden:	What if posting MOAP links cost onlyi 1L$ per unique and required some level of account verification
[17:02]	Arawn Spitteler:	MoaP, doesn't that allow some to get the IPA?
[17:02]	Eddi Decosta:	Awndrew i think ll need to add a Tos sections about Moap ㋡
[17:03]	Eddi Decosta:	like guide line to use
[17:03]	Andrew Linden:	that might be enough to limit some grief potential
[17:03]	Liisa Runo:	ill vote for taxing no-autoreturn. way too many parcels are getting full of vehicles and pyramid schemes
[17:03]	Arawn Spitteler:	Payment Info might be the Verification needed.
[17:03]	Eddi Decosta:	moment andrew i past you a jira in im
[17:03]	Eddi Decosta:	let me fin that
[17:03]	Morgaine Dinova:	There isn't a small griefing potential. There is a massive griefing potential, and worse, a massive viewer exploit potential that will lead to compromized PCs and emptied L$ accounts, not to mention your credit cards. This isn't a joke. It's happening hundreds of thousands of times every day, as Javascript and Flash exploits compromize PCs.
[17:04]	Andrew Linden:	hehe, that's a new idea I hadn't heard of -- taxation on no-autoreturn
[17:04]	Rex Cronon:	if u have to pay for these moap links, that could mean a newbie will have a very restricted view of sl
[17:04]	Ashiri Sands:	maybe autoreturn should be the default on parcels
[17:04]	Arawn Spitteler:	Better not to send distracting IMs.
[17:04]	Arawn Spitteler:	There uysed to be a linden's per prim rezed.
[17:04]	Andrew Linden:	yeah, that per-rez cost would be recovered when you deleted prims -- what an accounting mess
[17:04]	Arawn Spitteler:	Aren't those parcels the old Beta ones, that have Free-Premium grandfathered in?
[17:05]	Andrew Linden:	Office hours are up. I've got an interesting permissions problem I'm working on.
[17:05]	Alexia Leborski:	...sorry, folks but I have to go somewhere and have to leave early
[17:05]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I have to leave soon, but taxation on no-auto return should be for mainland only if it's done.
[17:05]	Alexia Leborski:	Catch you later
[17:05]	Andrew Linden:	Mabye I can complete it before I go home.
[17:05]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Wow, three people at once.
[17:05]	Alexia Leborski:	Bye
[17:06]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Take care Andrew, and all
[17:06]	Andrew Linden:	Thanks for coming, everyone.
[17:06]	Morgaine Dinova:	Cyu Andrew, have a good weekend :-)
[17:06]	Rex Cronon:	tc andrew
[17:06]	Ashiri Sands:	bye Andrew. thanks.

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