Difference between revisions of "Viewer Evolution User Group/Archive/2011-05-06"
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Latest revision as of 10:26, 16 May 2011
08:02 | TriloByte Zanzibar | good morning |
Oz Linden | Hi everyone | |
draconis.neurocam | hello oz | |
Liisa Runo | whispers: hi all | |
08:03 | Wolfpup | hey Oz |
Oz Linden | Before we get started.... Thank you to TriloByte for alerting us to the Mac issues on the mesh merge before we put it into viewer-development | |
Doubtless saved all us Mac users much grief | ||
or at the very least, those who have newer Macs | ||
08:04 | TriloByte Zanzibar | no prob... sorry that it's holding things up, but thanks for putting the brakes on |
well, anything made in the last 3 years :) | ||
08:05 | I'll keep an eye out for any new PO builds, and will jump on testing them as soon as I can. So if Dave, Seraph, etc get something together they want to test blind, that's fine | |
08:06 | Oz Linden | I'll pass that on |
TriloByte Zanzibar | I guess part of the problem is they don't actually have anything to test with | |
Oz Linden | STORM-1100 is proceeding sporadically as my time allows.... | |
JIRA-helper | http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1100
STORM-1100 Add new and changes to GPU_Table.txt | |
Oz Linden | yes, it is a part of the problemm | |
08:07 | Windlight .... | |
08:08 | We've got a new design in hand for how to configure windlight settings | |
TriloByte Zanzibar | excellent | |
Oz Linden | it is, I think, much easier to understand | |
TriloByte Zanzibar | you mean a different type of advanced sky dialog? | |
08:09 | Oz Linden | We did decide to leave the existing World->Sun menu choices for the 4 fixed settings just because too many people probably expect to use themmm |
TriloByte Zanzibar | yeah, I'd miss them too :) | |
08:10 | Oz Linden | We've changed the paradigm a bit.... you first set up named settings for water and sky |
then you can create named day cycles using those settings | ||
TriloByte Zanzibar | makes sense | |
08:11 | Oz Linden | then you either use those settings as personal settings, or you assign them to a region (assuming you have the Estate Manager permission) |
TriloByte Zanzibar | does it change the format of the windlight settings files at all? I know Torley and a few others have been circulating presets | |
Oz Linden | I don't know if we'll change the formats .... tbd | |
08:12 | TriloByte Zanzibar | So in effect, you could have different specific presets for different times of the day? |
Oz Linden | I don't think that's a high priority goal, though. | |
yes, you can set up to 20 key frames in a day cycle, each with its own sky | ||
TriloByte Zanzibar | nice | |
Oz Linden | (water is fixed throughout the day) | |
08:13 | it transitions from one to the next continuously between them | |
it also does a very nice transition when you cross region boundaries if the settings are different | ||
08:14 | TriloByte Zanzibar | I've seen how the transitions work in a couple videos, it really looks nice |
Oz Linden | takes a couple of seconds... it's kind of fun | |
TriloByte Zanzibar | very smooth, I was a little worried it was going to be too abrupt | |
Oz Linden | We've got a Project viewer that displays them but does not allow editing... I'm reviewing it to see if it seems safe to post publicly | |
08:15 | but there are not too many regions that have anything set | |
Thickbrick Sleaford | is there viewer code for this (server-side windlight) publicly available already? | |
Oz Linden | and I'm not sure I want lots of tourists jumping in and out here to see them | |
08:16 | TriloByte Zanzibar | I may be able to get a couple multi-region estates that are interested in partiicpating in tests |
Oz Linden | No, we have not posted the code yet because we are not sure that the server protocol will not change, and don't want any backwards compatibility issues | |
Jonathan | Will there be testing on Aditi first? | |
Oz Linden | Tell any region owners who would like to do testing to drop me a notecard to that effect | |
08:17 | TriloByte Zanzibar | will do |
Oz Linden | We'll only do the testing on aditi if it turns out that we do need to change the protocol | |
so far we have not, and the server side is already on agni | ||
08:18 | excuse me... need to step away for a moment.... | |
08:19 | I'm back... sorry about that | |
Attica Bekkers | wb | |
draconis.neurocam | sok, welcome back | |
08:20 | Oz Linden | anyway... much fun.... |
In the version that supports region settings, the default for all users will be to use them | ||
08:21 | with a check item to turn it off under World->Sun | |
draconis.neurocam | i think its good to get people exposed to them like that, will enhance new users view of sl | |
08:22 | Oz Linden | Our current plan is to disable the classic clouds at the same time, probably removing them completely and instead providing an equivalent that you can get free from Marketplace |
Classic clouds are really lag-inducing | ||
08:23 | WL clouds are much cheaper | |
draconis.neurocam | do you have any idea what will happen to the scripting function that lets you get classic cloud data, llCloud | |
Oz Linden | it will just return that there are no clouds | |
Thickbrick Sleaford | Oh, that would be sad. | |
draconis.neurocam | ah | |
oobscure | wtf is wrong with this chair. it keeps asking me for a pose. | |
Wolfpup | OZ the clasic clouds are not even in the current viewer | |
Thickbrick Sleaford | so the scripted replacment will not reflect the sim's cellular automaton weather? | |
08:24 | Oz Linden | I've been trying to figure out a way to detect whether or not that lsl function is actually used much, but have not found a way |
They are, they're just hard to find | ||
oobscure | hard to find and hard to disable. they suck so hard. | |
Thickbrick Sleaford | loves setting draw distance to very far, zooming out and looking straight up at the coulds. | |
08:25 | Oz Linden | Right... the cell weather essentially will only be doing wind as far as the viewer can tell |
Wolfpup | Oz open-52 removes the 'dead' code and the clasic clouds are part of that | |
JIRA-helper | http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-52
OPEN-52 Superfluous source files | |
oobscure | Wolf: Clouds tab in Adv Sky Editor | |
08:26 | Oz Linden | WL still has clouds... they just are painted on the sky rather than being 3d particles |
08:27 | you can even change the apparent height... you just can't get above them | |
Attica Bekkers | how sad | |
oobscure | kittens die | |
Attica Bekkers | true | |
08:28 | Oz Linden | but as I said, they are essentially just a particle effect, and our thought is to package that effect as a generator you can pick up and place as needed |
Attica Bekkers | sees abright future fro someone marketing authentic old sl cloud emitters | |
Wolfpup | there are going to be a lot of skyboxs that use the clasic clouds that will end up broken now | |
Oz Linden | they'll just have to pick up a generator and install it | |
Attica Bekkers | omg did my ab just scratch? lol | |
08:29 | Oz Linden | I've got a cloud-shrouded mountaintop on a private region I'm fond of, so I'll make sure that works :-) |
Attica Bekkers | great | |
if yuhave an alt it could sell em | ||
08:30 | or put it on the script library | |
Oz Linden | Next item.... media filters.... | |
we've got a contribution for that.... I'm going to get it reviewed next week | ||
08:31 | it's got a problem with breaking a unit test, and I'm having to learn the mocking system to fix that | |
but I'm making progress | ||
oobscure | mocking system ? | |
08:32 | Thickbrick Sleaford | every time a test fails, it mocks you |
Oz Linden | it's a system for replacing things in a test that you don't want to test | |
Wolfpup | oobscure it is part of the urlentry testing | |
Oz Linden | in this case, the preference for whether or not the filter is on | |
08:33 | you don't want the test to need a settings file and have to change that file and reload, etc | |
oobscure | thanks | |
Oz Linden | you just want a 'mock' setting that provides the value, but uses the same interface the normal code expects | |
there's a framework for doing that in a test | ||
08:34 | I'm digging up the docs on the framework... if they're any good, I'll put up something on the wiki | |
(and if not, I'll try to get some created, but that may take a while) | ||
Thickbrick Sleaford | I haven't looked at the code that was contributed, but I think there are some usability problems with what's in Sione Lomu's bitbucket repo. | |
08:35 | Oz Linden | Tonya has made a number of changes to that based on my early reviews |
for the contribution, that is. | ||
08:36 | I'm going to show it to our UI lead next week... he may want more... we'll see | |
Thickbrick Sleaford | In Imprudence we added an option to only ask when the stream being played was initiated by a scripted command. This reduces the spam greatly, and kinda-almost works. | |
Also, modal popups. | ||
Oz Linden | I don't expect many people to use this much.... it's rather a pain | |
08:37 | one of the changes we made was that the popup times out and disappears if you ignore it | |
(and that is equivalent to denying the media) | ||
Thickbrick Sleaford | Oh, cool. | |
08:38 | Oz Linden | let's see... VWR-25506 |
JIRA-helper | http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-25506
VWR-25506 Investigate restrictions on storing and exchanging inventory items within prims and notecards | |
Thickbrick Sleaford | Oh, not so cool. You will not be able to play that media again in that session without manually editing the filter (I think.) | |
Oz Linden | We've got a lot of interesting data now... thank you oobscure | |
oobscure | hoo. | |
08:39 | need more testing about that? | |
Oz Linden | That is also on my list of things to go over with our UX lead next week | |
I'll let you know after I've had that discusssion | ||
oobscure | ok. | |
who is UX lead if I may ask? | ||
Oz Linden | Rhett Linden | |
08:40 | He's visiting the Boston office next week.... I'll be passing on lots of what I've heard at these meetings :-) | |
08:41 | so.... under New Topics... | |
I don't think I understand this first one.... | ||
08:42 | TriloByte Zanzibar | I've been noticing the same thing Havarikk put on the agenda... display names often don't appear for several seconds |
Oz Linden | Well, they do have to be loaded remotely, so they are subject to service delays | |
08:43 | I put in a bunch of logging when I touched that code last, so if you bump up the logging for that system to debug level you get quite a lot of data now | |
TriloByte Zanzibar | right... I think Havarikk is getting at the idea that once a name's been fetched, it should shouldn't need to be re-fetched? | |
Oz Linden | if anyone wants to investigate it, I can dig up the log configuration | |
oobscure | i was thinking cache as well | |
08:44 | Oz Linden | it should be re-fetched |
the viewer is now pretty aggressive about keeping them | ||
TriloByte Zanzibar | I'm not sure how it works, but my guess based upon behavior is that each group keeps its own list of the DN's being used in it | |
Oz Linden | older versions timed out the cache pretty quickly, but now they are kept for a long time | |
08:45 | TriloByte Zanzibar | is it possible that fetching that list could be contributing to an increase in failures to open group chats lately? |
Attica Bekkers | thats driving me nuts | |
Oz Linden | there may be issues with out some other parts of the viewer are reading the name cache... I don't know | |
08:46 | I don't know, TriloByte ... I doubt that it's DNs | |
TriloByte Zanzibar | for the last few months, certain groups (for me, one specific larger one) fail when trying to open a lot more than before | |
Attica Bekkers | and cant openif in a simwith lots of people | |
TriloByte Zanzibar | other residents (and mostly folks on TPV's) report that nearly any group fails on them | |
Oz Linden | There is a lot of work going into various parts of chat these days.... I'm only following it at a pretty high level though | |
08:47 | Attica Bekkers | if yuf rogtot to try before arriving at populated sim, luck is out cos it keeps not opening even if got somewhere quiet |
Oz Linden | let's move on so we touch more of these.... | |
TriloByte Zanzibar | understood... if you hear of any need for testing/feedback on chat issues, let me know. I'm sure I could rustle up some volunteers | |
oobscure | well Oz that's encouraging news, after the huge xmpp disappointment :) | |
08:48 | Oz Linden | #2 .... we've got a fix for... will be in the next beta ... I forget the issue # |
oobscure | (( that = work going on chat. sorry for pronouns ;-) )) | |
Oz Linden | vwr-23121 | |
JIRA-helper | http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23121
VWR-23121 Minimising interface clutter for Viewer 2.0/Snowstorm | |
Thickbrick Sleaford | Capabilities seem to fail often for a some people (flood of http 499 errors in logs.) There's reprotedly a service that dies on the sim, but I also suspect there are other problems. I get those failures *very* more often with one ISP, and almost never with another ISP. That makes display names pretty useless for me. | |
08:49 | oobscure | I like VWR 23121. will add some ideas there. one is ... think "ctrl alt D" or "windows key + D" --- to hide all floaters and make em reappear |
08:50 | Thickbrick Sleaford | The ISP that has the often HTTP failures (which seems SL specific. Other sites keep working) also drops a lot less UDP packets, so I stay with it... |
Oz Linden | Yes ... the caps issue is a live one, and is being looked at hard | |
on this vwr from Haravikk.... after we're done with Windlight, I think that the next couple of Snowstorm team sprints will be looking at things related to this | ||
TriloByte Zanzibar | woohoo for mini icons and the ability to completely hide/remove the sidebar | |
08:51 | Attica Bekkers | no sidebars |
Oz Linden | I'll pass this on to our UI designer | |
Attica Bekkers | did theynto ask any legally blind peopel to test v2 | |
Oz Linden | I don't know, Attica | |
08:52 | TriloByte Zanzibar | next up was SVC-6898 |
JIRA-helper | http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-6898
SVC-6898 Switching language in preferences creates new calling cards folders for each language | |
TriloByte Zanzibar | wait, did I get that right? | |
oobscure | re: 6898 trilo? | |
08:53 | Oz Linden | yes... I believe that we've fixed the problem that caused those to be created in the first place |
oobscure | 6898 itself has been fixed. but folders cant be deleted by users anymore | |
TriloByte Zanzibar | yeah, that was the JIRA you listed on the agenda, but the description seems different than what you'd posted | |
ah ok | ||
oobscure | thats correct | |
Oz Linden | and we've got someone looking at fixing the folders from the database side. | |
08:54 | oobscure | that 'd be surely better than my idea |
Oz Linden | if all goes well, some time soon those folders will just disappear and all the contents will be in the one that should exist | |
oobscure | should 6898 be closed then? | |
08:55 | Attica Bekkers | fix pending? |
Oz Linden | I'll wait to close 6898 until we're sure we've got it all sorted out | |
STORM-312 | ||
JIRA-helper | http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-312
STORM-312 spacenavigator on linux didn't work | |
08:56 | Oz Linden | this is party my fault.... |
I kept putting it off because the old way that we built the libs was such a pain to deal with | ||
now that we've got autobuild packaging working, this should be pretty easy | ||
08:57 | in fact, if an open dev is interested, it should be straightforward | |
I can't take it up again myself until at least our next sprint, or I'll never get the gpu fixes done | ||
08:58 | what I'd _really_ like is for someone to port the driver from the SpaceNavigator folks instead of this one | |
in fact, we've got a SpaceNavigator for the dev that does that | ||
08:59 | (I love it... I think it's the best way to move around most of the time) | |
oobscure | it is | |
:) | ||
TriloByte Zanzibar | they have a linux driver on their site, v 1.5.2 released last august | |
09:00 | Oz Linden | yup... probably would not take much to package for autobuild and integrate |
but I want all three platforms, not just linux | ||
09:01 | oobscure | what does that driver add to current implementation? |
TriloByte Zanzibar | oh nvm, that's just their 3dxware, may not be just the driver | |
Oz Linden | We've beaten VWR-25525 enough for now, and already talked about clouds... | |
JIRA-helper | http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-25525
VWR-25525 Improvements to handling of user group permissions on parcels | |
09:02 | Oz Linden | so... we've gotten through our agenda, and I need to return that call from my wife that I had to stop for earlier.... |
see you all next week | ||
draconis.neurocam | take care oz | |
Wolfpup | tc Oz | |
TriloByte Zanzibar | see you later | |
oobscure | thank you Oz |