Mesh/Archive/2012-07-30

Agenda

1. When will mesh deformer be released and added to the official viewer? Beanster Potato 06:41, 30 July 2012 (PDT)
2. Are arbitrary rigs still something that are being looked into for mesh implementation Jalynne Ohmai 11:41, 30 July 2012 (PDT)
3. Can Linden comment on the status of various uploader improvements as discussed last week? Relevant JIRAs include: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-12214 , https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-29339 , https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-27954 Aki Shichiroji 11:58, 30 July 2012 (PDT)
4. Can I have a better way to hide water, please please? Motor Loon
5. Could be nice to be able to get avatars leg-length or hip-offset from ground, for scripting auto-adjusting poses Motor Loon
6. I'd like ability to play an ATTACHED sound via another prim in the linkset? any problem with that? Motor Loon
7. I'd like to be able to change the ALPHA level of a face/prim in my linkset, using llSetPrimitiveParams(fast) without having to specify the face's color too. This would be very useful for "animating mesh using faces" and such. Motor Loon
8. Can I have a another cookie please? Motor Loon
9. Can we implement a system that allows us to have pictures of our Outfits like the Avatar Selection? NiranV Dean
10. Will anyone ever fix the shrunken convex hull bug? https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-28416 Drongle McMahon

Meeting Notes

Attendees List

• Adamburp Adamczyk (adamburp.adamczyk)

• Aki Shichiroji (aki.shichiroji)

• Al Blindside (al.blindside)

• beanster Potato (beanster.potato) (User's Wiki Page)

• Blueberryxx (blueberryxx)

• Braydon Randt (braydon.randt)

• dahlia1337 resident (dahlia.trimble)

• √ÑlveKatt (davido.chrome)

• Drongle McMahon (drongle.mcmahon)

• Geenz Spad (geenz.spad)

• Gramma Fiddlesticks (gramma.fiddlesticks)

• Jalynne Ohmai (jalynne.ohmai)

• JIRA-helper (jira-helper)

• jr (jr4201.kruyschek)

• Œ∫Œµ…¥…ñ‡™∞Œª (kendra.zaurak)

• Kennylex Luckless (kennylex.luckless)

• Leviathan Flux (leviathan.flux) (User's Wiki Page)

• Lysandra (lysander.ashbourne)

• Motor Loon (motor.loon) (User's Wiki Page)

• Nal (nalates.urriah)

• Amethyst (niranv.dean)

• Nyx Linden (nyx.linden) (User's Wiki Page)

• Pamela Galli (pamela.galli)

• Prep Linden (prep.linden)

• Qie Niangao (qie.niangao) (User's Wiki Page)

• Rusalka Writer (rusalka.writer)

• Second Life (second.life)

• Tia Aquila (tia.biscuit)

• Tiberious Neruda (tiberious.neruda)

• Bazz Fazz (vir.linden)

• Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell)

Transcript for Monday July 30, 2012

[12:03]	Nyx Linden	agenda is here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation/Mesh_Import_User_Group
[12:03]	Al Blindside	I'm eating my supper on my lap - so no mic as I eat like a pig
[12:03]	Tia Aquila (tia.biscuit)	Hey Tiberious :-)
[12:03]	Tiberious Neruda	hi
[12:03]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	:O
[12:03]	Kennylex Luckless	Border Ambleside is full of hys balls. For later work.
[12:03]	Rusalka Writer	We never do the meetings in voice.
[12:03]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	wheres my pictured outfit!
[12:03]	Rusalka Writer	Voice can't be recorded.
[12:03]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	i feel betrayed
[12:04]	Rusalka Writer	Aloha, Vir.
[12:04]	Nyx Linden	agenda is editable by anyone, feel free to add it
[12:04]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	uhm
[12:04]	Bazz Fazz (vir.linden)	Hi all.
[12:04]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	"prior to 11:50 AM"
[12:04]	Al Blindside	kk - one finger typing as I spray my keyboard with balsamic vinegar....
[12:05]	Al Blindside	What's the mesh deformer?
[12:05]	Nyx Linden	its fine, go ahead and add it. We'll get started in a second
[12:05]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	it deforms your meshes
[12:05]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	hi Vir
[12:05]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	ok
[12:05]	Leviathan Flux	shapes rigged mesh to fit an av automaticallyt
[12:05]	Al Blindside	That means I type duh
[12:12]	Second Life	Teleport completed from http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/LindenWorld%20B/153/77/47
[12:12]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	last info i got was mesh deformer will have an off switch
[12:12]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Nyx, I wonder what the deformer will do to full rigged Mesh avatars? It will need an off switch, no?
[12:12]	Kennylex Luckless	Hi Nyx x 2
[12:12]	Rusalka Writer	Aha, Nyx returns.
[12:12]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	SL Aviation is complaining a lot because mesh aircrafts can`t cross from some sims to others, including in teh blake sea area
[12:12]	Jalynne Ohmai	As far as I know, it's an opt in that you have to turn on
[12:12]	Aki Shichiroji	wb Nyx
[12:12]	Tiberious Neruda	I mean, I kinda like what RedPoly showed us that one meeting, much more than the deformer work I'd seen
[12:13]	Al Blindside	A while back - sorry to dump on ya Nyx - there was talk of a meeting about 'MAV_BLOCK_MISSING' error -- any joy?
[12:13]	Pamela Galli	The agenda always rejects my password but I wanted to repeat that we would like the last LOD to be able to be set to 0 triangles
[12:13]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	Nal: so the problem should be in theory fixed for teh end of the next week?
[12:13]	Motor Loon	I get MAV_BLOCK when I try to upload physical models with errors in them
[12:13]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	jy: that problem will last until Pathfinding rolls out.
[12:13]	Motor Loon	fix error... fix problem
[12:14]	Al Blindside	Need info...... not cryptic messages?
[12:14]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	i smell a disconnect
[12:14]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	jr: it should be. At least them all regions will run the same Havok version.
[12:14]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	TY Nal
[12:14]	Nyx Linden	alright sorry for the late start all, having issues with my machine today
[12:14]	κεɴɖરλ (kendra.zaurak)	welcome back Nyx
[12:14]	Motor Loon	but PF will not be rolled out next week... I dont belive that atleast
[12:15]	Nyx Linden	topic 1: "When will mesh deformer be released and added to the official viewer? Beanster Potato 06:41, 30 July 2012 (PDT)"
[12:15]	Motor Loon	Lorca said "within a month" ... and thats only if all goes well
[12:15]	Nyx Linden	I don't have any update on the project myself, Oz is coordinating with Qarl on the deformer project, so he is more likely to have an updated status
[12:16]	Motor Loon	yeah, I think they're still playing ping-pong with emails back and forth
[12:16]	Tiberious Neruda	Nyx, will the solution RedPoly showed us a few weeks ago still be an option?
[12:16]	Al Blindside	Is it like a 'shrink wrap to fit' module for clothes??
[12:16]	Leviathan Flux	what about on the process redpoly was using, any updates on how to upload with that process?
[12:16]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	Beanster: Listen to Metareality podcasts. Karl often dicusses the deformer there.
[12:16]	Motor Loon	indeed what Nal said
[12:17]	Motor Loon	also my fav part of friday... the podcast °͜°
[12:17]	beanster Potato	will keep an eye on that as well, thanks nalates :-)
[12:17]	Nyx Linden	RedPoly had two different options: one that works now but is *very* limited, and one that was a project proposal
[12:17]	Leviathan Flux	did she ever detail her workflow for it?
[12:17]	Motor Loon	white: Karl was there this friday
[12:18]	Tiberious Neruda	Nyx, define "very limited"?
[12:18]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Nyx, I wonder what the deformer will do to full rigged Mesh avatars? It will need an off switch, no?
[12:18]	Nyx Linden	binding to the current physics bones is indeed possible, but is unlikely to be a comprehensive solution, as it does not respond well to many types of avatar shape changes.
[12:18]	Tiberious Neruda	ah
[12:19]	Leviathan Flux	so it's about binding to the bones rather than the joints?
[12:19]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	You also might want to use that the make a customisable avatar. Then poof, you can't use it to fit clothes anymore.
[12:19]	Tiberious Neruda	what about being able to actually edit the size of those collision bones?
[12:20]	Nyx Linden	the suggestion was to create a new set of collision bones that actually do respond to avatar shape changes. That would be an entirely separate project.
[12:20]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	but sounds like the easiest way
[12:21]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	in the upload process of somethings like rigged clothes or others we could have some options that then we could run different things like different bones
[12:21]	Motor Loon	easy way is not always the best way
[12:21]	Leviathan Flux	yes but whatever she is doing now seems to work pretty well, I was hoping to know what software she was doing it with and how, I dont see why not use something that is already working better than anything else now
[12:21]	Nyx Linden	it sounds simple, but its not :)
[12:21]	Tiberious Neruda	I mean, if you turn on "Show Collision Skeleton" and look at, for example, my av... it's ugly, and causes the camera to go a bit nuts when trying to zoom on me
[12:22]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	mh
[12:22]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	where does it go nuts?
[12:22]	Blueberryxx	I'm going to have to agree with Leviathan.
[12:22]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	i think the old standard SL skirts still work better than the new mesh ones, lol
[12:22]	Motor Loon	Forget it Tib... mesh deformer won't make that pretty little pink dress you want look good on you anyway...
[12:23]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	hahaha
[12:23]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	so later on i will still ask to an option of rezz teh jackets bottom part over the skirts too
[12:23]	Al Blindside	Personally I'd like to see some mesh tools appearing in the drop down menus up top......
[12:23]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	as for teh pants
[12:23]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	pants?
[12:23]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	yes
[12:23]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	who needs pants?
[12:23]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	^^
[12:23]	Leviathan Flux	I feel like we are getting off topic
[12:23]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	teh bottoms of teh jackets rezz over the pants layers
[12:23]	Tiberious Neruda	what I'm trying to say is... making a smaller-than-'normal' av using mesh causes camera focus issues
[12:24]	Motor Loon	Ey Prep
[12:24]	Nyx Linden	so are we ready to move to the second topic?
[12:24]	Leviathan Flux	no
[12:24]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	and i would like to have that option too for teh jackets over the skirts
[12:24]	Prep Linden	yo motor and all!
[12:24]	Aki Shichiroji	hi Prep
[12:24]	Rusalka Writer	Aloha!
[12:24]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	hi Prep
[12:24]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	Hi Prep
[12:24]	Leviathan Flux	I would really appreciate some more insight into the redpoly method as there is no end date in sight forqarl's deformer
[12:24]	Tiberious Neruda	and I've seen larger avs cause the camera to 'miss' because the 'collision bones' float out away from each other
[12:25]	Leviathan Flux	for qarls*
[12:25]	Motor Loon	there's no end date in sight for the redpoly method either Levithan °͜°
[12:25]	Leviathan Flux	it already works
[12:25]	Nyx Linden	RedPoly was adding weighting information that bound the mesh to the collision skeleton as opposed to the avatar's skeleton. A small number of parameter changes will affect those bones. I don't have a guide as to the tools involved.
[12:26]	Leviathan Flux	ok thank you nyx I will look into that
[12:26]	Motor Loon	"works" is often a matter of personal opinion.
[12:26]	Leviathan Flux	it works
[12:26]	Leviathan Flux	works better than anything else
[12:26]	Motor Loon	I'm sure LL will look at either and select what THEY belive to be the best method when it comes to it
[12:26]	Nyx Linden	I am skeptical that the results will be worth the effort as a general-purpose solution, though very specifically crafted pieces may appear to work for certain shapes.
[12:27]	Aki Shichiroji	in that one specific case. Even Redpoly admits it's not suitable in some use cases.
[12:27]	Blueberryxx	It does work, I purchased her jacket and tried adjusting my shape with the jacket on me and the jacket would adjust to my shape.
[12:27]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Gaia Clary is working on an interface for easy rigging with this for Avastar.
[12:27]	beanster Potato	qarls mesh deformer work as well, for the most part
[12:28]	Leviathan Flux	I don't need a perfect solution that works for everyone's extreme shape sizes, just something that will deform clothing well at least, better than nothing
[12:28]	Blueberryxx	I think Qarl's mesh deformer is already implemented on Cool VL Viewer. I haven't tested it yet.
[12:28]	Nyx Linden	more that redpoly's method will work for certain types of avatar shape adjustments (height, etc), but not others
[12:28]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Can you stack it, in layers, with the deformer?
[12:28]	Geenz Spad	both mostly function, it just really depends on what you need and what workflow compromises you're willing to take
[12:28]	Gramma Fiddlesticks	/me wants some kind of option for clothign where alpha stuff is NOT required.!
[12:29]	Al Blindside	If I may-- there's more to building than clothes and avis ---- any chance of temp uploads or bringing back the copy of position size and rotation params for V3 for those of us who still like to build in world?
[12:29]	Tiberious Neruda	the other thing I like more about the RedPoly mthod is that it appears to work base don weight paints
[12:29]	Geenz Spad	Qarl's: model around ruth, and hope that some things don't come out looking squished or what have you
[12:29]	Motor Loon	Probably utopia Gramma
[12:29]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	Gramma: i think that depends a lot of the number of polys used
[12:29]	Tiberious Neruda	and you can customize things to be as you want them
[12:29]	Geenz Spad	RedPoly's: see Nyx's comments, also that's a lot of bones to rig D:
[12:30]	Tiberious Neruda	Geenz... you wouldn't complain if we got finger bones, would you?
[12:30]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	if the rigged mesh clothes have teh right edge loops compared to teh the ones of the Avatar than they will deform much closer
[12:30]	Tiberious Neruda	and that's another 30 bones
[12:30]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	with teh animations, i mean
[12:30]	Gramma Fiddlesticks	it's taken me 5 years to get Gramma like she is. I sure don't wanna have to change her shape to wear clothing. =)
[12:30]	beanster Potato	rught and default sl avatar are'nt the same? i thought we were suppose to use the default avatar with deformer
[12:30]	beanster Potato	*ruth
[12:30]	Nyx Linden	so currently the only project in this space under way is the deformer project and I do not have an update for it, I would ask Oz for the current status.
[12:30]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	instead of finger bones we need tail bones
[12:30]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	now.
[12:31]	Tiberious Neruda	I agree
[12:31]	Geenz Spad	Tiberious: I wouldn't complain much, but that's 30 bones vs. I think last count was 70-something?
[12:31]	Leviathan Flux	the next topic is arbitrary rigs?
[12:31]	Nyx Linden	mind if I move on to the next topic so we can get through the agenda?
[12:31]	Motor Loon	I dont want a tail...
[12:31]	Jalynne Ohmai	the last I heard on that project there would be options for extreme shapes to work with the standard sizing initiative as well as with the default av
[12:31]	Tiberious Neruda	I'd LOVE a chain of 'flexibones' we can use
[12:31]	Leviathan Flux	please to nyx
[12:31]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Loon, you can use it to rig your penis.
[12:31]	Leviathan Flux	do*
[12:31]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	yeah, move along Nyx
[12:31]	Motor Loon	hehe go on already Nyx, they wont stop °͜°
[12:31]	Nyx Linden	next topic: "Are arbitrary rigs still something that are being looked into for mesh implementation Jalynne Ohmai 11:41, 30 July 2012 (PDT)"
[12:31]	Leviathan Flux	im guessing that will be LONG time
[12:32]	Nyx Linden	it is a feature we would like to have but are not actively working on.
[12:32]	Leviathan Flux	but in the plans nonetheless
[12:32]	Motor Loon	in "the box of ideas we like"
[12:32]	Rusalka Writer	We need a Wiki where the frequently asked questions can have updated answers.
[12:32]	Nyx Linden	it is a rather big box :)
[12:32]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	I think that might come about sooner than later, you know, since the competitors have it.
[12:32]	Jalynne Ohmai	So it's definitely still in the we want to do this box LOL
[12:32]	Lysandra (lysander.ashbourne)	someone should update the sl wiki
[12:32]	Aki Shichiroji	well... we have a Wiki, with archived transcripts. people don't read it :P
[12:33]	Motor Loon	Good thing we'll be in Second Life‚Ñ¢ in 10 years too eh
[12:33]	Rusalka Writer	I promise to ask for a Pony there if we do.
[12:33]	Leviathan Flux	ok so next topic haha
[12:33]	Nyx Linden	next topic: "Can Linden comment on the status of various uploader improvements as discussed last week? Relevant JIRAs include: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-12214 , https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-29339 , https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-27954 Aki Shichiroji 11:58, 30 July 2012 (PDT)"
[12:34]	JIRA-helper	[#VWR-12214] change background colot in upload preview tool - Second Life Bug Tracker
[12:34]	JIRA-helper	[#VWR-29339] Add floor to all upload previews to allow users to offset heights more accurately and efficiently - Second Life Bug Tracker
[12:34]	JIRA-helper	[#VWR-27954] Mesh Upload Window is not resizable - Second Life Bug Tracker
[12:34]	Leviathan Flux	I like some of those ideas
[12:34]	Motor Loon	way to overload the poor jira helper
[12:34]	Leviathan Flux	like being able ot change the size of the upload window
[12:34]	Rusalka Writer	I like all of those ideas.
[12:34]	Prep Linden	I have the code finished for VWR-29339...just some more testing. I've also fixed the issue where
[12:34]	Drongle McMahon	What's a colot?
[12:34]	Leviathan Flux	would also be nice to be able to rotate the model in other directions in the preview
[12:34]	Aki Shichiroji	oooh sweet - thanks Prep!
[12:34]	Motor Loon	Bravo Prep!
[12:34]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	oh! JIRA, my 5 years long Landlord is still banned from JIRA, the poor creature
[12:35]	Leviathan Flux	cool
[12:35]	Rusalka Writer	Loves me some floor.
[12:35]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	congrats, Prep
[12:35]	Motor Loon	floors are nice and comfy
[12:35]	Nyx Linden	I'm also working with Oz to identify other issues in this space that might be useful to work on in the future, so please do keep gathering these together.
[12:35]	Rusalka Writer	Nice for an avatar standing on pointe.
[12:36]	Drongle McMahon	What space is that Nyx?
[12:36]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	The Mesh upload space?
[12:36]	Tiberious Neruda	uploader improvements, I think
[12:37]	Drongle McMahon	Offset pivots then.
[12:37]	Motor Loon	I'd love real offset pivots
[12:37]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Oh yes. We need those.
[12:37]	Nyx Linden	uploader improvments is what I'm referring to specifically
[12:37]	Motor Loon	instead of the invisible-triangle-hack crap we have to do now
[12:37]	Jalynne Ohmai	mmm real offset pivots
[12:37]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	If nothing else so that LODs and collision shapes align correctly.
[12:37]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	could my 5 years long Landlord Prokofy Neva be unbanned by JIRA without Soft Linden block that? teh poor guy is constantely harrassed by griefers and needs to access JIRA, atm because of teh group tags bug, he is being banned from his land even
[12:37]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	lol
[12:38]	Lysandra (lysander.ashbourne)	poor guy
[12:38]	Aki Shichiroji	‚óï‚Äø‚óï
[12:38]	Drongle McMahon	Bring back nice pastel coloured hulls in physics preview.
[12:38]	Al Blindside	I'd love to see a WIKI explaining the cryptic messages and obscure settings of the mesh upload screen...... call me old fashioned
[12:38]	Rusalka Writer	Not so much a problem for the mesh group, though.
[12:38]	Gramma Fiddlesticks	/me would love to see a wiki explaing the whole upload window!
[12:38]	Al Blindside	^^^^^
[12:38]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	yeah! that Soft Linden blocking him from JIRA will give him som apoplexy or worse
[12:38]	Leviathan Flux	which part?
[12:39]	Nyx Linden	please do forward these suggestions on to me - best format is with a filed jira and email me the number
[12:39]	Drongle McMahon	Ah yes ... informative error messages!
[12:39]	Rusalka Writer	See your console!
[12:39]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	besides we own a lot to Prokofy because of his fights against copybotters, grieffers and so
[12:39]	Gramma Fiddlesticks	it's tough to teach a class on uploading mesh when you don't know for 100$ certain what some of the things on the upload model window do.
[12:40]	Nyx Linden	If you can send in crash reports, that always helps - also if you can reproduce a crash please do file a JIRA
[12:40]	Prep Linden	white rabbit: you got a repro case?
[12:40]	Gramma Fiddlesticks	100%
[12:40]	Tiberious Neruda	I wouldn't mind seeing a change in how mesh objects are highlighted when selected
[12:40]	Leviathan Flux	I would like to see some sort of limitations for uploading like max number of faces
[12:40]	Motor Loon	I was gonna say thats some mightly expensive mesh you upload Gramma
[12:40]	Rusalka Writer	I crashed the development viewer a lot at the RFL, but never got a crash report window.
[12:40]	Nyx Linden	next topic: "Can I have a better way to hide water, please please? Motor Loon"
[12:40]	Tiberious Neruda	for some reason, the highlight tries to go along every triangle
[12:40]	Gramma Fiddlesticks	*grins Loon
[12:40]	Leviathan Flux	hide water?
[12:41]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	Invisprims
[12:41]	Motor Loon	yes please
[12:41]	Qie Niangao	yes
[12:41]	beanster Potato	raise land
[12:41]	Aki Shichiroji	invisiprims are broken with deferred rendering.
[12:41]	Rusalka Writer	Water is an expensive render.
[12:41]	Motor Loon	something that WORKS with deferred rendering
[12:41]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	not broken
[12:41]	Rusalka Writer	Kills FPS.
[12:41]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	they are not supported on purpose
[12:41]	Motor Loon	anything that works with deferred rendering will do
[12:41]	Leviathan Flux	you mean like cntrl+alt+shift+7?
[12:41]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	because they occlude alot of effects
[12:41]	Aki Shichiroji	well the fact remains there is a difference in experience betwen people running deferred rendering and those not.
[12:41]	Qie Niangao	fine, but we still need a way to make a hole in water... preferably better than invisiprims ever worked.
[12:42]	Tiberious Neruda	if you break invisiprims, can we have transparent and shiny at the same time?
[12:42]	Nyx Linden	Is there a jira issue for this request?
[12:42]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	Motor`s problem is for people inside boats which have a cabin under the water line, without what he is asking we can`t bring to SL boats models with realistic proportions, so it can`t hide avatars too
[12:42]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Would be nice for subs and tunnels.
[12:42]	Motor Loon	I need to be able to hide water inside a hull of a sailboat (for example) ... dont care how... aslong as it works °͜°
[12:42]	Leviathan Flux	ohhh
[12:42]	Leviathan Flux	ok yeah that would be cool
[12:42]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	+1
[12:43]	Aki Shichiroji	drydocks also benefit... but also if sim designers want to create a difference in water height, they can't do that below the actual set water line.
[12:43]	Tiberious Neruda	this is really the only effect those are needed for now, so if we could make transparent items shiny, invisiprims can be 'safely' broken for good
[12:43]	Motor Loon	I could even live with the crappy invisi prims... but they have zero effect under deferred rendering
[12:43]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	because they are disabled
[12:43]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	they were fixed by runatai long ago
[12:43]	Geenz Spad	isn't there some mask that gets sent from the server that used to be (still is?) used to mask water around shorelines?
[12:43]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	but later on disabled again
[12:43]	Aki Shichiroji	hell. i would live with an animated gif via html on a prim if i could garantee the experience was the same across viewers. but i can't.
[12:43]	Nyx Linden	If there is a feature request filed I can get it into the hands of the right people to consider for prioritization
[12:44]	Aki Shichiroji	(to create different heights for water)
[12:44]	Tiberious Neruda	(I say safely because while there might be old content that uses it, there's ways to achieve the same results with actual features)
[12:44]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Invisiprims have, other uses, that I don't want to get into.
[12:45]	Gramma Fiddlesticks	/me has old shoes that still use them. =x
[12:45]	Qie Niangao	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-16671 is *relevant*, but not quite what we need most urgently
[12:45]	JIRA-helper	[#VWR-16671] SL Water prim and Anti-water prim. - Second Life Bug Tracker
[12:45]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	occluding mesh , alpha , water , sky , glow , reflections , body , ssao , they receive and throw shadows
[12:45]	Nyx Linden	Motor - please file a jira if one does not exist and pass me the link
[12:45]	Nyx Linden	next topic: "Could be nice to be able to get avatars leg-length or hip-offset from ground, for scripting auto-adjusting poses Motor Loon"
[12:45]	Aki Shichiroji	i think that JIRA is very relevant and would work within the scope of what Motor's asking for.
[12:46]	Nyx Linden	so you'd like an LSL function to get those values?
[12:46]	Motor Loon	will do Nyx
[12:46]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Would revolutionize the sex bed business too.
[12:46]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	xD
[12:46]	Gramma Fiddlesticks	=x
[12:46]	Rusalka Writer	Never could get Z-offset to work and they closed my jira. : (
[12:46]	Aki Shichiroji	adjusting poses for height would be awesome for those who make odd-sized avs.
[12:46]	Rusalka Writer	Had to re-work this avatar.
[12:47]	Prep Linden	rusalka: jira #?
[12:47]	Motor Loon	ok, this next requests may need an example... currently I can get the boundingbox size of an avatar... if I divide by around half, I get the approx. place of the hip... and I can use that to align poses to fit all sizes... but it's pretty inaccurate
[12:47]	Rusalka Writer	Heaven only knows. It was probably eighteen months ago.
[12:47]	Rusalka Writer	I'll hunt.
[12:47]	Motor Loon	..so I'd like to be able to get THE REAL hip position, or rather the offset from the ground to the hip... in my scripts for this usage
[12:47]	Nyx Linden	I'd bring this up at the scripting usergroup: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server/Sim/Scripting_User_Group
[12:47]	Lysandra (lysander.ashbourne)	permission to paste a few lines that may or may not have some to do with this?
[12:48]	Rusalka Writer	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SH-2258
[12:48]	Lysandra (lysander.ashbourne)	code i mean
[12:48]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	The scripting group is dead.
[12:48]	Qie Niangao	no such user group anymore, btw. but the server dev group still works.
[12:48]	Rusalka Writer	Ah, only a year ago.
[12:48]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Simulator has taken over the scripting part I believe.
[12:48]	Motor Loon	yes
[12:49]	Motor Loon	but ok, Ill bring it up at one of the other UG's
[12:49]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	Kelly is at Andrew & SImon's meetings. No more Kelly group.
[12:49]	Nyx Linden	It will be more likely to happen once we are generating avatar appearances on the servers, so it might take a little while.
[12:50]	Motor Loon	guess my next # is the same then... and next mabye....
[12:50]	Motor Loon	or?
[12:50]	Nyx Linden	6 and 7 sound like scripting/simulator topics ideally
[12:50]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	/me gives motor a tracking cookie.
[12:51]	Motor Loon	mmmm cookies...
[12:52]	Nyx Linden	topic 8: cookies!
[12:52]	κεɴɖરλ (kendra.zaurak)	Nyx, when we will be able to upload a mesh with the textures?
[12:52]	Lysandra (lysander.ashbourne)	Mmmm!
[12:52]	Motor Loon	thank you Nyx °͜°
[12:52]	Motor Loon	Ill save it for after dinner... like mom always told me
[12:52]	Gramma Fiddlesticks	chocolate chip or peanut butter cookies Nyx?
[12:52]	Motor Loon	I'm a good boy... yes i am...
[12:52]	Rusalka Writer	We used to have tx upload.
[12:53]	Leviathan Flux	moving on...
[12:53]	Nyx Linden	next topic: "Can we implement a system that allows us to have pictures of our Outfits like the Avatar Selection? NiranV Dean" (also for reference, chocolate chip)
[12:53]	dahlia1337 resident (dahlia.trimble)	Bear shaped cookies!!!
[12:53]	Gramma Fiddlesticks	*grins
[12:53]	Motor Loon	That woulds be very coolness Niran
[12:54]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	That would be neat.
[12:54]	Gramma Fiddlesticks	/me digs out bag of choclate chips and prepares to bake!
[12:54]	Nyx Linden	its a good suggestion and one we've considered in the past - the main challenges are 1) generation of the images and 2) storage of the images
[12:54]	Motor Loon	but how would they be generated?
[12:54]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	1) you can do them on your own
[12:54]	Aki Shichiroji	/me would settle for an image slot.
[12:54]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Wait, that would mean thered be pictures of my naked outfits. I might be against this. XD
[12:54]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	you can put a snapshot of your outfit into your outfit folder
[12:54]	Lysandra (lysander.ashbourne)	/me would settle for screenshot or image shot too
[12:54]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	the viewer will search for a texture in each folder and display it if avaikable
[12:54]	Motor Loon	an image slot using an self uploaded texture should be easy to put in eh?
[12:54]	Lysandra (lysander.ashbourne)	hmm, to much effort!
[12:54]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	available
[12:55]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	no
[12:55]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	should be really easy and quick to implement
[12:55]	Aki Shichiroji	a lot of people do this already to keep their inventory sorted
[12:55]	Aki Shichiroji	but it's not integrated with the outfit system :(
[12:55]	Motor Loon	/me hides his inventory
[12:55]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	yea but it doesnt display in the outfit menu
[12:55]	Gramma Fiddlesticks	/me wants free texture uploads! =x
[12:55]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Isn'
[12:55]	Nyx Linden	sounds feasible though
[12:55]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	t
[12:55]	Lysandra (lysander.ashbourne)	i can get behind free texture uploads!
[12:56]	Motor Loon	Could be all local
[12:56]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	well
[12:56]	Tiberious Neruda	oh...!
[12:56]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Isn't this one of those viewr features we could ask third party viewer developers for?
[12:56]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	yea
[12:56]	Motor Loon	nobody else needs to see your outfit picture
[12:56]	Tiberious Neruda	I'd LOVE to see some way we can preview, even if locally, mesh uploads
[12:56]	κεɴɖરλ (kendra.zaurak)	[12:52] Kendra Zaurak: Nyx, when we will be able to upload a mesh with the textures?
[12:56]	Aki Shichiroji	yes, but what happens if you need to pop over to another comp?
[12:56]	Gramma Fiddlesticks	make them free for premium accoutns then.
[12:56]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	i think putting them into the outfit folder would be the best
[12:56]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	lol
[12:56]	Motor Loon	Any reason why you cant just put it in the Niran viewer now Niran?
[12:56]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	do a texture selector like in build panel
[12:56]	Nyx Linden	yep! third party developers could potentially implement this. I'd want to sync up with anyone who wants to implement it, but it shouldn't require a linden project
[12:57]	Aki Shichiroji	Kendra: there's an agenda for questions; if you log in to the Wiki, you can edit this page to add your question: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation/Mesh_Import_User_Group
[12:57]	Braydon Randt	hey you get your 300 a week for free premium accounts :P
[12:57]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	and then let the user select a texture out of his inventory
[12:57]	Tiberious Neruda	I use beta grid, but what happens when it's down for an extended period of time?
[12:57]	Geenz Spad	if only I didn't have enough to do already :P
[12:57]	Gramma Fiddlesticks	/me has been premium all her life here!
[12:57]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	the UI part is easy , the coding behind it , reading the outfit folder is something i think i wont get to run
[12:57]	Nyx Linden	if the beta grid is down for an extended period of time, we scramble to fix it :)
[12:58]	Leviathan Flux	is there no room in this meeting to answer new questions or just ones previously submitted
[12:58]	Motor Loon	arrh Geenz... you watch too much TV from the couch now anyway... get on it °͜°
[12:58]	Nyx Linden	I can stay a couple extra minutes since we got started late, though the other lindens may have to take off - so add more topics if you have them
[12:58]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	After the agenda is done, maybe? If there is time?
[12:58]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	Flux: Agenda questions get first priority.
[12:58]	dahlia1337 resident (dahlia.trimble)	I can never log in to the beta grid if the region I was in is down and I have "last location" selected
[12:59]	dahlia1337 resident (dahlia.trimble)	it acts like the whole grid is down
[12:59]	Leviathan Flux	I normally cant make it to this time for the meetings and was able to finally today so this is pretty disapptointing just going over stuff that mostly dont have answers
[12:59]	Motor Loon	so dont select Last locatioin ?
[12:59]	Aki Shichiroji	i usually just try logging in from one of the known regions, like Ahern or Dore
[12:59]	Nyx Linden	Amethyst - please create a jira for the feature request
[12:59]	Aki Shichiroji	(for beta grid)
[12:59]	Amethyst (niranv.dean)	ok
[12:59]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	no info hubs for beta grid?
[12:59]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	Daliha: try logging into MOrris or PathTest1 if your last location is down.
[12:59]	Motor Loon	err not PathTest1
[12:59]	dahlia1337 resident (dahlia.trimble)	pathtest1 is usually always down
[12:59]	Motor Loon	thats like always down
[12:59]	Motor Loon	yeah
[13:00]	Nyx Linden	next topic: "Will anyone ever fix the shrunken convex hull bug? https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-28416 Drongle McMahon"
[13:00]	JIRA-helper	[#VWR-28416] Mesh: Default convex hull is smaller than it should be. - Second Life Bug Tracker
[13:00]	Aki Shichiroji	is that like the default hull the uploader comes up with if you don't set a specific file or LOD?
[13:01]	Drongle McMahon	Yes
[13:01]	Aki Shichiroji	ah ok.
[13:01]	Motor Loon	this is not put in on purpose to fix the 10cm gap thing is it?
[13:01]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	lol
[13:01]	Nyx Linden	that is with going through the decomposition process with default parameters, or doing no decomp?
[13:02]	Drongle McMahon	Neither - it's the default hull you get when you select Convex hull physics shape type, whether you make a physics shape or not.
[13:02]	Lysandra (lysander.ashbourne)	prep linden... you look so... ergonomic
[13:02]	Motor Loon	lol
[13:02]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	i like Prep`s look
[13:03]	Al Blindside	If the preview window wasn't so small we might evem see the gap......
[13:03]	Lysandra (lysander.ashbourne)	i was wondering where i could buy that outfit...
[13:03]	Nyx Linden	Drongle - ok. currently the bug is sitting on the backlog, I don't think its a high priority - is there a piece of content that is particularly broken by this bug?
[13:03]	Drongle McMahon	You can see the shrinkage in physics shape view, and you can walk into the edges of a large mesh.
[13:04]	Tiberious Neruda	Yuzuru's roads?
[13:04]	Nyx Linden	right, I can see the bug, I'm wondering if you have an example piece of content that shows why its a big issue.
[13:04]	Drongle McMahon	Yes ... it was the roads that made me think of it. Any content using Convex hull shape type is affected.
[13:05]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell)	I think it was changed when mesh object was moved.
[13:05]	Drongle McMahon	Well, I work around it by making a physics shape. It's people w
[13:05]	Drongle McMahon	ho don't know thyat who get caught.
[13:05]	Motor Loon	so, when they fix it now - your workaround-objects will break then °͜°
[13:05]	Aki Shichiroji	i experience that a bit with some of my terrain pieces, but mostly because I'm being lazy and not uploading a physics LOD. Once i'm done with getting the placement right, i usually go back to add one though.
[13:06]	Nyx Linden	ok, I'll mention it internally.
[13:06]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell)	or coped from rezzed prim.
[13:06]	Aki Shichiroji	making a physics shape is really relatively easy if you already know how to model and cut down on faces...
[13:06]	Drongle McMahon	No - they will be fine. Suppliedc shapes are not affected.
[13:06]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Why use Convex Hull on a road? Feels like it makes more sense to make a simplified physics mash for the collision shape instead.
[13:06]	Motor Loon	I'd sure use a PRIM setting for a road too
[13:06]	Al Blindside	I have a suggestion : Given that sculpties wer a 'bespoke' part of SL then why not get a third party to make a plug in like Gaia Clary's 'SL Collada' which filters out all non-sl stuff (like exceeded face counts etc) for the likes of Blender?
[13:06]	Leviathan Flux	that's one of the great benefits of mesh
[13:06]	Leviathan Flux	being able to customize the physcis
[13:06]	Leviathan Flux	physics*
[13:07]	Drongle McMahon	It's the sort of bug that would annoy me intensely if I were responsible for the code! Each to his own.
[13:07]	dahlia1337 resident (dahlia.trimble)	is there a way to define our own convex hulls instead of using the decomposition?
[13:07]	Leviathan Flux	why
[13:07]	dahlia1337 resident (dahlia.trimble)	why not?
[13:08]	Nyx Linden	you can define your own physics mesh, but that is generally more expensive than convex hulls
[13:08]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	You should be able to make an even more efficient collision shape than convex hull if you make it yourself.
[13:08]	Drongle McMahon	Dahlia ... you can force thyem by supplying a physics mesh already consisting of them.
[13:08]	Leviathan Flux	because you can already define the physics shape
[13:08]	dahlia1337 resident (dahlia.trimble)	I dont mean a physics mesh, I mean a hull
[13:08]	Aki Shichiroji	yeah, i find it cuts down on costs if i make my own rather than relying on the decomp.
[13:08]	Drongle McMahon	So do I
[13:08]	dahlia1337 resident (dahlia.trimble)	bypassing the decomposition stage
[13:09]	Geenz Spad	in this case, "physics shape" and "physics hull" are effectively the same thing
[13:09]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Nyx, Does Convex hull do anything more than fill in holes and lower the face count to 256 triangles max?
[13:09]	Drongle McMahon	Just give it the hulls as meshes and the decomposer will copy them.
[13:10]	Nyx Linden	convex hull tries to reduce the physical representation to a single convex hull, so it will also eliminate any concavities
[13:10]	Al Blindside	Also - given that beautiful in world tools like Mesh Studio and Celzium now exist - why not ask the guys - The BlackBox and Cel Edman to write a plug in module for the main menu so we can create in world without having the hassles of translating stuff from out of world tools that were never designed for puspose?
[13:11]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Al, go to his office hour. Join sweet Sculpties to get a notice.
[13:11]	Al Blindside	I'm in that group
[13:11]	Leviathan Flux	in-world mesh creator?
[13:11]	Al Blindside	Yes - there are great tools now
[13:11]	Nyx Linden	any other topics for today?
[13:11]	√ÑlveKatt (davido.chrome)	If you want to talk to the Black box, that's your best bet. :)
[13:12]	Rusalka Writer	We feel done.
[13:12]	Motor Loon	we almost done, I wanna have dinner so I can eat this cookie that Nyx gave me...
[13:12]	Rusalka Writer	I'm certainly confused enough.
[13:12]	Leviathan Flux	woudl LL consider putting some sort of limits or guidelines on face count of uploads?
[13:12]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	i want have diner too
[13:12]	Al Blindside	Is the cookie on your hard drive?
[13:12]	Drongle McMahon	Al ... because you have to pay them?
[13:12]	Leviathan Flux	and I think Kendra had a question about uploading textures i was curious about too
[13:12]	Al Blindside	It's chump change compared to licences
[13:12]	Leviathan Flux	oh she left
[13:12]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	I gave him a tracking cookie, so soon I will know all his secrets!
[13:13]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	so by the end of the next week we will have the HAVOK issues resolved like crossing sims with mesh vehicules without problems?
[13:13]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	MUAHAHAHA!
[13:13]	Motor Loon	°͜°
[13:13]	Motor Loon	chocolate chip tracking cookie
[13:13]	Rusalka Writer	Yep, we're done.
[13:13]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	lol, a tracking cookie
[13:13]	Nyx Linden	oh a quick announcement - no usergroup next week
[13:13]	Tiberious Neruda	o.o
[13:13]	Leviathan Flux	?
[13:13]	Motor Loon	awwww
[13:13]	Rusalka Writer	Dang.
[13:13]	Drongle McMahon	Aarrgghhh!
[13:13]	Leviathan Flux	we're done?
[13:13]	dahlia1337 resident (dahlia.trimble)	bear shaped chocolate chip cookies :D
[13:13]	Nyx Linden	we will pick back up on the 13th
[13:13]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	uh!?!
[13:13]	Drongle McMahon	Why not?
[13:13]	Tia Aquila (tia.biscuit)	[12:52:08] κεɴɖરλ (kendra.zaurak): Nyx, when we will be able to upload a mesh with the textures?
[13:13]	Gramma Fiddlesticks	well shoot. What will we do at noon on Moday?
[13:13]	Aki Shichiroji	your regularly scheduled user group is being coopted due to Olympics :P
[13:13]	Motor Loon	nooo... the sky is falling... you cant leave us a whole week nyyyyx
[13:13]	dahlia1337 resident (dahlia.trimble)	with red M&Ms for eyes
[13:13]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Oh, if internet cookies were the kind you could eat... I guess I would be fat...
[13:13]	Leviathan Flux	[13:12] Leviathan Flux: woudl LL consider putting some sort of limits or guidelines on face count of uploads?
[13:14]	Prep Linden	gonna jet folks - see you all on the 13th! have a good one.
[13:14]	Aki Shichiroji	that's what is being done to the vast number of shows i follow right now
[13:14]	Lysandra (lysander.ashbourne)	booo olympics! *doesn't watch that stuff*
[13:14]	Rusalka Writer	Aloha!
[13:14]	Motor Loon	tc Prep
[13:14]	Gramma Fiddlesticks	bye prep.
[13:14]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	k, 13th then
[13:14]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	see ya Prep
[13:14]	Adamburp Adamczyk	happy birthday prep, only just relaised
[13:14]	Aki Shichiroji	Thanks for the meeting, Nyx, Prep, Vir :)
[13:14]	Leviathan Flux	I am feeling ignored
[13:14]	Nyx Linden	as for textured meshes - there are still some bugs behind that, but it is intended to work
[13:14]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	see ya Nyx and Vir
[13:14]	Rusalka Writer	Groovy.
[13:14]	Rusalka Writer	Used to work.
[13:14]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	until 13th
[13:14]	Al Blindside	TY the Linden guys - and all else who took part
[13:15]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Thank you for your time Lindens!
[13:15]	Rusalka Writer	Cheers, all!
[13:15]	Aki Shichiroji	isn't there already a face limit?
[13:15]	Leviathan Flux	this was very disappoiting
[13:15]	Nyx Linden	and there are limits on the number of faces allowed in an upload
[13:15]	Motor Loon	luv' ya all... tc
[13:15]	Leviathan Flux	disappointing*
[13:15]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	64 k limit
[13:15]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	right?
[13:15]	Bazz Fazz (vir.linden)	Bye!
[13:15]	Aki Shichiroji	Leviathan: in the future, add your question to the agenda
[13:15]	Gramma Fiddlesticks	see yah Nyx, Vir and everyone. Gotta head off to kitchen to bake!
[13:15]	Leviathan Flux	yeah but I mean more practical
[13:15]	Drongle McMahon	64k per material?
[13:15]	Rusalka Writer	Aloha!
[13:15]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Wow, that's a lot...
[13:15]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	see ya all guys at 13th
[13:15]	Leviathan Flux	for the people that are uploading 80 prim table cloths
[13:15]	Aki Shichiroji	Leviathan: think of it this way:
[13:15]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	64 k per mesh object, not sure
[13:15]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek)	TC all
[13:15]	Aki Shichiroji	the market for lower prim objects will push those people out :P
[13:15]	Nyx Linden	Leviathan - its hard to tell programatically what a "table cloth" is
[13:16]	Geenz Spad	yay 16-bit vertex indexes :>
[13:16]	Leviathan Flux	I understand
[13:16]	Leviathan Flux	but
[13:16]	Nyx Linden	an 80 prim house, however, is perfectly acceptable
[13:16]	Leviathan Flux	if they designate a category
[13:16]	Leviathan Flux	like
[13:16]	Tia Aquila (tia.biscuit)	perhaps by size of the object?
[13:16]	Leviathan Flux	hey im uploading a 500 prim 1 room shack
[13:16]	Leviathan Flux	the number could be in red to show that's high
[13:16]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Can make houses a lot prim cheaper if you are good with texture illusions!
[13:16]	Aki Shichiroji	i think it needs to be regulated on a personal, one on one basis.
[13:17]	Rusalka Writer	You can't save everybody.
[13:17]	Leviathan Flux	i know
[13:17]	Leviathan Flux	that's my point
[13:17]	Aki Shichiroji	i keep an eye out for script heavy items in my sims, for instance.
[13:17]	Jalynne Ohmai	I'm obsessed with half prim meshes personally.
[13:17]	Tiberious Neruda	problem is...
[13:17]	Leviathan Flux	so people arent uploading models that hog resources and lag people out
[13:17]	Tiberious Neruda	....if polycounts get too high, I'll CRASH if I try to select them
[13:17]	Jalynne Ohmai	it's so much fun to copy and link them.
[13:18]	Leviathan Flux	if there is some sort of system like you pick clothing, then jacket, then if it's like 40k faces could show that's high for a piece of clothing
[13:18]	Kennylex Luckless	Can any Linden, please take trip to Ambleside and clean up after griefer
[13:18]	Leviathan Flux	i feel like this should be a crucial issue
[13:18]	Geenz Spad	best thing to do is educate people on efficient modeling practices from the sounds of it
[13:18]	Rusalka Writer	People uploading stupid stuff is a good source of L$ for LL. Once they check the prim count it's their problem.
[13:18]	Aki Shichiroji	people have been doing that with prim and sculpt for a while. there's not a lot you can do except ask that they cut down
[13:18]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Ah yeah, maybe face count should be displayed in Marketplace?
[13:18]	Rusalka Writer	Nobody buys it, it's their problem.
[13:18]	Rusalka Writer	Somebody does, it's their problem.
[13:18]	Qie Niangao	(arguably, *attached* mesh can be unhelpfully complex without much effective limiting... but there's always avatar imposters, I guess)
[13:18]	Aki Shichiroji	consider the shoe and hair-makers who routinely use 100+ prims to create individual objects.
[13:18]	Nyx Linden	I'm open to suggestions, but it is "very difficult" to specifically set and enforce such limits - it should be a factor of education and informed building/purchasing
[13:19]	Rusalka Writer	And the zillion-prim jewelry.
[13:19]	Tiberious Neruda	255... sculpted... spikes...
[13:19]	Leviathan Flux	yeah that's why i suggested guidelines as well
[13:19]	Geenz Spad	sounds like a nice little wiki project!
[13:19]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Oh my, yeah, my hair is 105 prims...
[13:19]	Rusalka Writer	But that's communism.
[13:19]	Tiberious Neruda	500,000 triangles... JUST FOR HAIR!
[13:19]	Leviathan Flux	there are a lot of people that still see attached mesh as 0 land impact and think that means it's 0 prims
[13:19]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Geenz, it has started one.
[13:20]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Let me find the link.
[13:20]	Geenz Spad	wasn't aware that someone had put that up by now
[13:20]	Geenz Spad	I know it's been mentioned a few times that someone should get on that
[13:20]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Good_Building_Practices
[13:20]	Tia Aquila (tia.biscuit)	Aye, perhaps by size or like Lev says category and even penalty if your stuff is found to be stupidly over?
[13:21]	Aki Shichiroji	the sad thing is... you could paste that link to any number of the content creator community and have people ignore it because they want THEIR product to be the star of the show.
[13:21]	Geenz Spad	/me notices "Mesh and LOD" hasn't been created yet
[13:21]	Rusalka Writer	Well, kids, plowing old fields here. I'm off.
[13:21]	Aki Shichiroji	the problem is, when EVERYONE does that, EVERYONE suffers.
[13:21]	Nyx Linden	I need to head out - feel free to add topics for next time. See everyone on the 13th!

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