Mesh/Archive/2012-07-30

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Agenda

  1. When will mesh deformer be released and added to the official viewer? Beanster Potato 06:41, 30 July 2012 (PDT)
  2. Are arbitrary rigs still something that are being looked into for mesh implementation Jalynne Ohmai 11:41, 30 July 2012 (PDT)
  3. Can Linden comment on the status of various uploader improvements as discussed last week? Relevant JIRAs include: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-12214 , https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-29339 , https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-27954 Aki Shichiroji 11:58, 30 July 2012 (PDT)
  4. Can I have a better way to hide water, please please? Motor Loon
  5. Could be nice to be able to get avatars leg-length or hip-offset from ground, for scripting auto-adjusting poses Motor Loon
  6. I'd like ability to play an ATTACHED sound via another prim in the linkset? any problem with that? Motor Loon
  7. I'd like to be able to change the ALPHA level of a face/prim in my linkset, using llSetPrimitiveParams(fast) without having to specify the face's color too. This would be very useful for "animating mesh using faces" and such. Motor Loon
  8. Can I have a another cookie please? Motor Loon
  9. Can we implement a system that allows us to have pictures of our Outfits like the Avatar Selection? NiranV Dean
  10. Will anyone ever fix the shrunken convex hull bug? https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-28416 Drongle McMahon

Meeting Notes



Transcript for Monday July 30, 2012

[12:03] Nyx Linden agenda is here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation/Mesh_Import_User_Group
[12:03] Al Blindside I'm eating my supper on my lap - so no mic as I eat like a pig
[12:03] Tia Aquila (tia.biscuit) Hey Tiberious :-)
[12:03] Tiberious Neruda hi
[12:03] Amethyst (niranv.dean) :O
[12:03] Kennylex Luckless Border Ambleside is full of hys balls. For later work.
[12:03] Rusalka Writer We never do the meetings in voice.
[12:03] Amethyst (niranv.dean) wheres my pictured outfit!
[12:03] Rusalka Writer Voice can't be recorded.
[12:03] Amethyst (niranv.dean) i feel betrayed
[12:04] Rusalka Writer Aloha, Vir.
[12:04] Nyx Linden agenda is editable by anyone, feel free to add it
[12:04] Amethyst (niranv.dean) uhm
[12:04] Bazz Fazz (vir.linden) Hi all.
[12:04] Amethyst (niranv.dean) "prior to 11:50 AM"
[12:04] Al Blindside kk - one finger typing as I spray my keyboard with balsamic vinegar....
[12:05] Al Blindside What's the mesh deformer?
[12:05] Nyx Linden its fine, go ahead and add it. We'll get started in a second
[12:05] Amethyst (niranv.dean) it deforms your meshes
[12:05] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) hi Vir
[12:05] Amethyst (niranv.dean) ok
[12:05] Leviathan Flux shapes rigged mesh to fit an av automaticallyt
[12:05] Al Blindside That means I type duh
[12:12] Second Life Teleport completed from http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/LindenWorld%20B/153/77/47
[12:12] Amethyst (niranv.dean) last info i got was mesh deformer will have an off switch
[12:12] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) Nyx, I wonder what the deformer will do to full rigged Mesh avatars? It will need an off switch, no?
[12:12] Kennylex Luckless Hi Nyx x 2
[12:12] Rusalka Writer Aha, Nyx returns.
[12:12] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) SL Aviation is complaining a lot because mesh aircrafts can`t cross from some sims to others, including in teh blake sea area
[12:12] Jalynne Ohmai As far as I know, it's an opt in that you have to turn on
[12:12] Aki Shichiroji wb Nyx
[12:12] Tiberious Neruda I mean, I kinda like what RedPoly showed us that one meeting, much more than the deformer work I'd seen
[12:13] Al Blindside A while back - sorry to dump on ya Nyx - there was talk of a meeting about 'MAV_BLOCK_MISSING' error -- any joy?
[12:13] Pamela Galli The agenda always rejects my password but I wanted to repeat that we would like the last LOD to be able to be set to 0 triangles
[12:13] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) Nal: so the problem should be in theory fixed for teh end of the next week?
[12:13] Motor Loon I get MAV_BLOCK when I try to upload physical models with errors in them
[12:13] Nal (nalates.urriah) jy: that problem will last until Pathfinding rolls out.
[12:13] Motor Loon fix error... fix problem
[12:14] Al Blindside Need info...... not cryptic messages?
[12:14] Amethyst (niranv.dean) i smell a disconnect
[12:14] Nal (nalates.urriah) jr: it should be. At least them all regions will run the same Havok version.
[12:14] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) TY Nal
[12:14] Nyx Linden alright sorry for the late start all, having issues with my machine today
[12:14] κεɴɖરλ (kendra.zaurak) welcome back Nyx
[12:14] Motor Loon but PF will not be rolled out next week... I dont belive that atleast
[12:15] Nyx Linden topic 1: "When will mesh deformer be released and added to the official viewer? Beanster Potato 06:41, 30 July 2012 (PDT)"
[12:15] Motor Loon Lorca said "within a month" ... and thats only if all goes well
[12:15] Nyx Linden I don't have any update on the project myself, Oz is coordinating with Qarl on the deformer project, so he is more likely to have an updated status
[12:16] Motor Loon yeah, I think they're still playing ping-pong with emails back and forth
[12:16] Tiberious Neruda Nyx, will the solution RedPoly showed us a few weeks ago still be an option?
[12:16] Al Blindside Is it like a 'shrink wrap to fit' module for clothes??
[12:16] Leviathan Flux what about on the process redpoly was using, any updates on how to upload with that process?
[12:16] Nal (nalates.urriah) Beanster: Listen to Metareality podcasts. Karl often dicusses the deformer there.
[12:16] Motor Loon indeed what Nal said
[12:17] Motor Loon also my fav part of friday... the podcast °͜°
[12:17] beanster Potato will keep an eye on that as well, thanks nalates :-)
[12:17] Nyx Linden RedPoly had two different options: one that works now but is *very* limited, and one that was a project proposal
[12:17] Leviathan Flux did she ever detail her workflow for it?
[12:17] Motor Loon white: Karl was there this friday
[12:18] Tiberious Neruda Nyx, define "very limited"?
[12:18] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) Nyx, I wonder what the deformer will do to full rigged Mesh avatars? It will need an off switch, no?
[12:18] Nyx Linden binding to the current physics bones is indeed possible, but is unlikely to be a comprehensive solution, as it does not respond well to many types of avatar shape changes.
[12:18] Tiberious Neruda ah
[12:19] Leviathan Flux so it's about binding to the bones rather than the joints?
[12:19] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) You also might want to use that the make a customisable avatar. Then poof, you can't use it to fit clothes anymore.
[12:19] Tiberious Neruda what about being able to actually edit the size of those collision bones?
[12:20] Nyx Linden the suggestion was to create a new set of collision bones that actually do respond to avatar shape changes. That would be an entirely separate project.
[12:20] Amethyst (niranv.dean) but sounds like the easiest way
[12:21] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) in the upload process of somethings like rigged clothes or others we could have some options that then we could run different things like different bones
[12:21] Motor Loon easy way is not always the best way
[12:21] Leviathan Flux yes but whatever she is doing now seems to work pretty well, I was hoping to know what software she was doing it with and how, I dont see why not use something that is already working better than anything else now
[12:21] Nyx Linden it sounds simple, but its not :)
[12:21] Tiberious Neruda I mean, if you turn on "Show Collision Skeleton" and look at, for example, my av... it's ugly, and causes the camera to go a bit nuts when trying to zoom on me
[12:22] Amethyst (niranv.dean) mh
[12:22] Amethyst (niranv.dean) where does it go nuts?
[12:22] Blueberryxx I'm going to have to agree with Leviathan.
[12:22] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) i think the old standard SL skirts still work better than the new mesh ones, lol
[12:22] Motor Loon Forget it Tib... mesh deformer won't make that pretty little pink dress you want look good on you anyway...
[12:23] Amethyst (niranv.dean) hahaha
[12:23] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) so later on i will still ask to an option of rezz teh jackets bottom part over the skirts too
[12:23] Al Blindside Personally I'd like to see some mesh tools appearing in the drop down menus up top......
[12:23] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) as for teh pants
[12:23] Amethyst (niranv.dean) pants?
[12:23] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) yes
[12:23] Amethyst (niranv.dean) who needs pants?
[12:23] Amethyst (niranv.dean) ^^
[12:23] Leviathan Flux I feel like we are getting off topic
[12:23] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) teh bottoms of teh jackets rezz over the pants layers
[12:23] Tiberious Neruda what I'm trying to say is... making a smaller-than-'normal' av using mesh causes camera focus issues
[12:24] Motor Loon Ey Prep
[12:24] Nyx Linden so are we ready to move to the second topic?
[12:24] Leviathan Flux no
[12:24] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) and i would like to have that option too for teh jackets over the skirts
[12:24] Prep Linden yo motor and all!
[12:24] Aki Shichiroji hi Prep
[12:24] Rusalka Writer Aloha!
[12:24] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) hi Prep
[12:24] Amethyst (niranv.dean) Hi Prep
[12:24] Leviathan Flux I would really appreciate some more insight into the redpoly method as there is no end date in sight forqarl's deformer
[12:24] Tiberious Neruda and I've seen larger avs cause the camera to 'miss' because the 'collision bones' float out away from each other
[12:25] Leviathan Flux for qarls*
[12:25] Motor Loon there's no end date in sight for the redpoly method either Levithan °͜°
[12:25] Leviathan Flux it already works
[12:25] Nyx Linden RedPoly was adding weighting information that bound the mesh to the collision skeleton as opposed to the avatar's skeleton. A small number of parameter changes will affect those bones. I don't have a guide as to the tools involved.
[12:26] Leviathan Flux ok thank you nyx I will look into that
[12:26] Motor Loon "works" is often a matter of personal opinion.
[12:26] Leviathan Flux it works
[12:26] Leviathan Flux works better than anything else
[12:26] Motor Loon I'm sure LL will look at either and select what THEY belive to be the best method when it comes to it
[12:26] Nyx Linden I am skeptical that the results will be worth the effort as a general-purpose solution, though very specifically crafted pieces may appear to work for certain shapes.
[12:27] Aki Shichiroji in that one specific case. Even Redpoly admits it's not suitable in some use cases.
[12:27] Blueberryxx It does work, I purchased her jacket and tried adjusting my shape with the jacket on me and the jacket would adjust to my shape.
[12:27] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) Gaia Clary is working on an interface for easy rigging with this for Avastar.
[12:27] beanster Potato qarls mesh deformer work as well, for the most part
[12:28] Leviathan Flux I don't need a perfect solution that works for everyone's extreme shape sizes, just something that will deform clothing well at least, better than nothing
[12:28] Blueberryxx I think Qarl's mesh deformer is already implemented on Cool VL Viewer. I haven't tested it yet.
[12:28] Nyx Linden more that redpoly's method will work for certain types of avatar shape adjustments (height, etc), but not others
[12:28] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) Can you stack it, in layers, with the deformer?
[12:28] Geenz Spad both mostly function, it just really depends on what you need and what workflow compromises you're willing to take
[12:28] Gramma Fiddlesticks /me wants some kind of option for clothign where alpha stuff is NOT required.!
[12:29] Al Blindside If I may-- there's more to building than clothes and avis ---- any chance of temp uploads or bringing back the copy of position size and rotation params for V3 for those of us who still like to build in world?
[12:29] Tiberious Neruda the other thing I like more about the RedPoly mthod is that it appears to work base don weight paints
[12:29] Geenz Spad Qarl's: model around ruth, and hope that some things don't come out looking squished or what have you
[12:29] Motor Loon Probably utopia Gramma
[12:29] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) Gramma: i think that depends a lot of the number of polys used
[12:29] Tiberious Neruda and you can customize things to be as you want them
[12:29] Geenz Spad RedPoly's: see Nyx's comments, also that's a lot of bones to rig D:
[12:30] Tiberious Neruda Geenz... you wouldn't complain if we got finger bones, would you?
[12:30] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) if the rigged mesh clothes have teh right edge loops compared to teh the ones of the Avatar than they will deform much closer
[12:30] Tiberious Neruda and that's another 30 bones
[12:30] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) with teh animations, i mean
[12:30] Gramma Fiddlesticks it's taken me 5 years to get Gramma like she is. I sure don't wanna have to change her shape to wear clothing. =)
[12:30] beanster Potato rught and default sl avatar are'nt the same? i thought we were suppose to use the default avatar with deformer
[12:30] beanster Potato *ruth
[12:30] Nyx Linden so currently the only project in this space under way is the deformer project and I do not have an update for it, I would ask Oz for the current status.
[12:30] Amethyst (niranv.dean) instead of finger bones we need tail bones
[12:30] Amethyst (niranv.dean) now.
[12:31] Tiberious Neruda I agree
[12:31] Geenz Spad Tiberious: I wouldn't complain much, but that's 30 bones vs. I think last count was 70-something?
[12:31] Leviathan Flux the next topic is arbitrary rigs?
[12:31] Nyx Linden mind if I move on to the next topic so we can get through the agenda?
[12:31] Motor Loon I dont want a tail...
[12:31] Jalynne Ohmai the last I heard on that project there would be options for extreme shapes to work with the standard sizing initiative as well as with the default av
[12:31] Tiberious Neruda I'd LOVE a chain of 'flexibones' we can use
[12:31] Leviathan Flux please to nyx
[12:31] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) Loon, you can use it to rig your penis.
[12:31] Leviathan Flux do*
[12:31] Nal (nalates.urriah) yeah, move along Nyx
[12:31] Motor Loon hehe go on already Nyx, they wont stop °͜°
[12:31] Nyx Linden next topic: "Are arbitrary rigs still something that are being looked into for mesh implementation Jalynne Ohmai 11:41, 30 July 2012 (PDT)"
[12:31] Leviathan Flux im guessing that will be LONG time
[12:32] Nyx Linden it is a feature we would like to have but are not actively working on.
[12:32] Leviathan Flux but in the plans nonetheless
[12:32] Motor Loon in "the box of ideas we like"
[12:32] Rusalka Writer We need a Wiki where the frequently asked questions can have updated answers.
[12:32] Nyx Linden it is a rather big box :)
[12:32] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) I think that might come about sooner than later, you know, since the competitors have it.
[12:32] Jalynne Ohmai So it's definitely still in the we want to do this box LOL
[12:32] Lysandra (lysander.ashbourne) someone should update the sl wiki
[12:32] Aki Shichiroji well... we have a Wiki, with archived transcripts. people don't read it :P
[12:33] Motor Loon Good thing we'll be in Second Life‚Ñ¢ in 10 years too eh
[12:33] Rusalka Writer I promise to ask for a Pony there if we do.
[12:33] Leviathan Flux ok so next topic haha
[12:33] Nyx Linden next topic: "Can Linden comment on the status of various uploader improvements as discussed last week? Relevant JIRAs include: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-12214 , https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-29339 , https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-27954 Aki Shichiroji 11:58, 30 July 2012 (PDT)"
[12:34] JIRA-helper [#VWR-12214] change background colot in upload preview tool - Second Life Bug Tracker
[12:34] JIRA-helper [#VWR-29339] Add floor to all upload previews to allow users to offset heights more accurately and efficiently - Second Life Bug Tracker
[12:34] JIRA-helper [#VWR-27954] Mesh Upload Window is not resizable - Second Life Bug Tracker
[12:34] Leviathan Flux I like some of those ideas
[12:34] Motor Loon way to overload the poor jira helper
[12:34] Leviathan Flux like being able ot change the size of the upload window
[12:34] Rusalka Writer I like all of those ideas.
[12:34] Prep Linden I have the code finished for VWR-29339...just some more testing. I've also fixed the issue where
[12:34] Drongle McMahon What's a colot?
[12:34] Leviathan Flux would also be nice to be able to rotate the model in other directions in the preview
[12:34] Aki Shichiroji oooh sweet - thanks Prep!
[12:34] Motor Loon Bravo Prep!
[12:34] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) oh! JIRA, my 5 years long Landlord is still banned from JIRA, the poor creature
[12:35] Leviathan Flux cool
[12:35] Rusalka Writer Loves me some floor.
[12:35] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) congrats, Prep
[12:35] Motor Loon floors are nice and comfy
[12:35] Nyx Linden I'm also working with Oz to identify other issues in this space that might be useful to work on in the future, so please do keep gathering these together.
[12:35] Rusalka Writer Nice for an avatar standing on pointe.
[12:36] Drongle McMahon What space is that Nyx?
[12:36] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) The Mesh upload space?
[12:36] Tiberious Neruda uploader improvements, I think
[12:37] Drongle McMahon Offset pivots then.
[12:37] Motor Loon I'd love real offset pivots
[12:37] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) Oh yes. We need those.
[12:37] Nyx Linden uploader improvments is what I'm referring to specifically
[12:37] Motor Loon instead of the invisible-triangle-hack crap we have to do now
[12:37] Jalynne Ohmai mmm real offset pivots
[12:37] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) If nothing else so that LODs and collision shapes align correctly.
[12:37] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) could my 5 years long Landlord Prokofy Neva be unbanned by JIRA without Soft Linden block that? teh poor guy is constantely harrassed by griefers and needs to access JIRA, atm because of teh group tags bug, he is being banned from his land even
[12:37] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) lol
[12:38] Lysandra (lysander.ashbourne) poor guy
[12:38] Aki Shichiroji ‚óï‚Äø‚óï
[12:38] Drongle McMahon Bring back nice pastel coloured hulls in physics preview.
[12:38] Al Blindside I'd love to see a WIKI explaining the cryptic messages and obscure settings of the mesh upload screen...... call me old fashioned
[12:38] Rusalka Writer Not so much a problem for the mesh group, though.
[12:38] Gramma Fiddlesticks /me would love to see a wiki explaing the whole upload window!
[12:38] Al Blindside ^^^^^
[12:38] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) yeah! that Soft Linden blocking him from JIRA will give him som apoplexy or worse
[12:38] Leviathan Flux which part?
[12:39] Nyx Linden please do forward these suggestions on to me - best format is with a filed jira and email me the number
[12:39] Drongle McMahon Ah yes ... informative error messages!
[12:39] Rusalka Writer See your console!
[12:39] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) besides we own a lot to Prokofy because of his fights against copybotters, grieffers and so
[12:39] Gramma Fiddlesticks it's tough to teach a class on uploading mesh when you don't know for 100$ certain what some of the things on the upload model window do.
[12:40] Nyx Linden If you can send in crash reports, that always helps - also if you can reproduce a crash please do file a JIRA
[12:40] Prep Linden white rabbit: you got a repro case?
[12:40] Gramma Fiddlesticks 100%
[12:40] Tiberious Neruda I wouldn't mind seeing a change in how mesh objects are highlighted when selected
[12:40] Leviathan Flux I would like to see some sort of limitations for uploading like max number of faces
[12:40] Motor Loon I was gonna say thats some mightly expensive mesh you upload Gramma
[12:40] Rusalka Writer I crashed the development viewer a lot at the RFL, but never got a crash report window.
[12:40] Nyx Linden next topic: "Can I have a better way to hide water, please please? Motor Loon"
[12:40] Tiberious Neruda for some reason, the highlight tries to go along every triangle
[12:40] Gramma Fiddlesticks *grins Loon
[12:40] Leviathan Flux hide water?
[12:41] Amethyst (niranv.dean) Invisprims
[12:41] Motor Loon yes please
[12:41] Qie Niangao yes
[12:41] beanster Potato raise land
[12:41] Aki Shichiroji invisiprims are broken with deferred rendering.
[12:41] Rusalka Writer Water is an expensive render.
[12:41] Motor Loon something that WORKS with deferred rendering
[12:41] Amethyst (niranv.dean) not broken
[12:41] Rusalka Writer Kills FPS.
[12:41] Amethyst (niranv.dean) they are not supported on purpose
[12:41] Motor Loon anything that works with deferred rendering will do
[12:41] Leviathan Flux you mean like cntrl+alt+shift+7?
[12:41] Amethyst (niranv.dean) because they occlude alot of effects
[12:41] Aki Shichiroji well the fact remains there is a difference in experience betwen people running deferred rendering and those not.
[12:41] Qie Niangao fine, but we still need a way to make a hole in water... preferably better than invisiprims ever worked.
[12:42] Tiberious Neruda if you break invisiprims, can we have transparent and shiny at the same time?
[12:42] Nyx Linden Is there a jira issue for this request?
[12:42] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) Motor`s problem is for people inside boats which have a cabin under the water line, without what he is asking we can`t bring to SL boats models with realistic proportions, so it can`t hide avatars too
[12:42] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) Would be nice for subs and tunnels.
[12:42] Motor Loon I need to be able to hide water inside a hull of a sailboat (for example) ... dont care how... aslong as it works °͜°
[12:42] Leviathan Flux ohhh
[12:42] Leviathan Flux ok yeah that would be cool
[12:42] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) +1
[12:43] Aki Shichiroji drydocks also benefit... but also if sim designers want to create a difference in water height, they can't do that below the actual set water line.
[12:43] Tiberious Neruda this is really the only effect those are needed for now, so if we could make transparent items shiny, invisiprims can be 'safely' broken for good
[12:43] Motor Loon I could even live with the crappy invisi prims... but they have zero effect under deferred rendering
[12:43] Amethyst (niranv.dean) because they are disabled
[12:43] Amethyst (niranv.dean) they were fixed by runatai long ago
[12:43] Geenz Spad isn't there some mask that gets sent from the server that used to be (still is?) used to mask water around shorelines?
[12:43] Amethyst (niranv.dean) but later on disabled again
[12:43] Aki Shichiroji hell. i would live with an animated gif via html on a prim if i could garantee the experience was the same across viewers. but i can't.
[12:43] Nyx Linden If there is a feature request filed I can get it into the hands of the right people to consider for prioritization
[12:44] Aki Shichiroji (to create different heights for water)
[12:44] Tiberious Neruda (I say safely because while there might be old content that uses it, there's ways to achieve the same results with actual features)
[12:44] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) Invisiprims have, other uses, that I don't want to get into.
[12:45] Gramma Fiddlesticks /me has old shoes that still use them. =x
[12:45] Qie Niangao https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-16671 is *relevant*, but not quite what we need most urgently
[12:45] JIRA-helper [#VWR-16671] SL Water prim and Anti-water prim. - Second Life Bug Tracker
[12:45] Amethyst (niranv.dean) occluding mesh , alpha , water , sky , glow , reflections , body , ssao , they receive and throw shadows
[12:45] Nyx Linden Motor - please file a jira if one does not exist and pass me the link
[12:45] Nyx Linden next topic: "Could be nice to be able to get avatars leg-length or hip-offset from ground, for scripting auto-adjusting poses Motor Loon"
[12:45] Aki Shichiroji i think that JIRA is very relevant and would work within the scope of what Motor's asking for.
[12:46] Nyx Linden so you'd like an LSL function to get those values?
[12:46] Motor Loon will do Nyx
[12:46] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) Would revolutionize the sex bed business too.
[12:46] Amethyst (niranv.dean) xD
[12:46] Gramma Fiddlesticks =x
[12:46] Rusalka Writer Never could get Z-offset to work and they closed my jira. : (
[12:46] Aki Shichiroji adjusting poses for height would be awesome for those who make odd-sized avs.
[12:46] Rusalka Writer Had to re-work this avatar.
[12:47] Prep Linden rusalka: jira #?
[12:47] Motor Loon ok, this next requests may need an example... currently I can get the boundingbox size of an avatar... if I divide by around half, I get the approx. place of the hip... and I can use that to align poses to fit all sizes... but it's pretty inaccurate
[12:47] Rusalka Writer Heaven only knows. It was probably eighteen months ago.
[12:47] Rusalka Writer I'll hunt.
[12:47] Motor Loon ..so I'd like to be able to get THE REAL hip position, or rather the offset from the ground to the hip... in my scripts for this usage
[12:47] Nyx Linden I'd bring this up at the scripting usergroup: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server/Sim/Scripting_User_Group
[12:47] Lysandra (lysander.ashbourne) permission to paste a few lines that may or may not have some to do with this?
[12:48] Rusalka Writer https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SH-2258
[12:48] Lysandra (lysander.ashbourne) code i mean
[12:48] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) The scripting group is dead.
[12:48] Qie Niangao no such user group anymore, btw. but the server dev group still works.
[12:48] Rusalka Writer Ah, only a year ago.
[12:48] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) Simulator has taken over the scripting part I believe.
[12:48] Motor Loon yes
[12:49] Motor Loon but ok, Ill bring it up at one of the other UG's
[12:49] Nal (nalates.urriah) Kelly is at Andrew & SImon's meetings. No more Kelly group.
[12:49] Nyx Linden It will be more likely to happen once we are generating avatar appearances on the servers, so it might take a little while.
[12:50] Motor Loon guess my next # is the same then... and next mabye....
[12:50] Motor Loon or?
[12:50] Nyx Linden 6 and 7 sound like scripting/simulator topics ideally
[12:50] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) /me gives motor a tracking cookie.
[12:51] Motor Loon mmmm cookies...
[12:52] Nyx Linden topic 8: cookies!
[12:52] κεɴɖરλ (kendra.zaurak) Nyx, when we will be able to upload a mesh with the textures?
[12:52] Lysandra (lysander.ashbourne) Mmmm!
[12:52] Motor Loon thank you Nyx °͜°
[12:52] Motor Loon Ill save it for after dinner... like mom always told me
[12:52] Gramma Fiddlesticks chocolate chip or peanut butter cookies Nyx?
[12:52] Motor Loon I'm a good boy... yes i am...
[12:52] Rusalka Writer We used to have tx upload.
[12:53] Leviathan Flux moving on...
[12:53] Nyx Linden next topic: "Can we implement a system that allows us to have pictures of our Outfits like the Avatar Selection? NiranV Dean" (also for reference, chocolate chip)
[12:53] dahlia1337 resident (dahlia.trimble) Bear shaped cookies!!!
[12:53] Gramma Fiddlesticks *grins
[12:53] Motor Loon That woulds be very coolness Niran
[12:54] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) That would be neat.
[12:54] Gramma Fiddlesticks /me digs out bag of choclate chips and prepares to bake!
[12:54] Nyx Linden its a good suggestion and one we've considered in the past - the main challenges are 1) generation of the images and 2) storage of the images
[12:54] Motor Loon but how would they be generated?
[12:54] Amethyst (niranv.dean) 1) you can do them on your own
[12:54] Aki Shichiroji /me would settle for an image slot.
[12:54] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) Wait, that would mean thered be pictures of my naked outfits. I might be against this. XD
[12:54] Amethyst (niranv.dean) you can put a snapshot of your outfit into your outfit folder
[12:54] Lysandra (lysander.ashbourne) /me would settle for screenshot or image shot too
[12:54] Amethyst (niranv.dean) the viewer will search for a texture in each folder and display it if avaikable
[12:54] Motor Loon an image slot using an self uploaded texture should be easy to put in eh?
[12:54] Lysandra (lysander.ashbourne) hmm, to much effort!
[12:54] Amethyst (niranv.dean) available
[12:55] Amethyst (niranv.dean) no
[12:55] Amethyst (niranv.dean) should be really easy and quick to implement
[12:55] Aki Shichiroji a lot of people do this already to keep their inventory sorted
[12:55] Aki Shichiroji but it's not integrated with the outfit system :(
[12:55] Motor Loon /me hides his inventory
[12:55] Amethyst (niranv.dean) yea but it doesnt display in the outfit menu
[12:55] Gramma Fiddlesticks /me wants free texture uploads! =x
[12:55] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) Isn'
[12:55] Nyx Linden sounds feasible though
[12:55] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) t
[12:55] Lysandra (lysander.ashbourne) i can get behind free texture uploads!
[12:56] Motor Loon Could be all local
[12:56] Amethyst (niranv.dean) well
[12:56] Tiberious Neruda oh...!
[12:56] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) Isn't this one of those viewr features we could ask third party viewer developers for?
[12:56] Amethyst (niranv.dean) yea
[12:56] Motor Loon nobody else needs to see your outfit picture
[12:56] Tiberious Neruda I'd LOVE to see some way we can preview, even if locally, mesh uploads
[12:56] κεɴɖરλ (kendra.zaurak) [12:52] Kendra Zaurak: Nyx, when we will be able to upload a mesh with the textures?
[12:56] Aki Shichiroji yes, but what happens if you need to pop over to another comp?
[12:56] Gramma Fiddlesticks make them free for premium accoutns then.
[12:56] Amethyst (niranv.dean) i think putting them into the outfit folder would be the best
[12:56] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) lol
[12:56] Motor Loon Any reason why you cant just put it in the Niran viewer now Niran?
[12:56] Amethyst (niranv.dean) do a texture selector like in build panel
[12:56] Nyx Linden yep! third party developers could potentially implement this. I'd want to sync up with anyone who wants to implement it, but it shouldn't require a linden project
[12:57] Aki Shichiroji Kendra: there's an agenda for questions; if you log in to the Wiki, you can edit this page to add your question: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation/Mesh_Import_User_Group
[12:57] Braydon Randt hey you get your 300 a week for free premium accounts :P
[12:57] Amethyst (niranv.dean) and then let the user select a texture out of his inventory
[12:57] Tiberious Neruda I use beta grid, but what happens when it's down for an extended period of time?
[12:57] Geenz Spad if only I didn't have enough to do already :P
[12:57] Gramma Fiddlesticks /me has been premium all her life here!
[12:57] Amethyst (niranv.dean) the UI part is easy , the coding behind it , reading the outfit folder is something i think i wont get to run
[12:57] Nyx Linden if the beta grid is down for an extended period of time, we scramble to fix it :)
[12:58] Leviathan Flux is there no room in this meeting to answer new questions or just ones previously submitted
[12:58] Motor Loon arrh Geenz... you watch too much TV from the couch now anyway... get on it °͜°
[12:58] Nyx Linden I can stay a couple extra minutes since we got started late, though the other lindens may have to take off - so add more topics if you have them
[12:58] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) After the agenda is done, maybe? If there is time?
[12:58] Nal (nalates.urriah) Flux: Agenda questions get first priority.
[12:58] dahlia1337 resident (dahlia.trimble) I can never log in to the beta grid if the region I was in is down and I have "last location" selected
[12:59] dahlia1337 resident (dahlia.trimble) it acts like the whole grid is down
[12:59] Leviathan Flux I normally cant make it to this time for the meetings and was able to finally today so this is pretty disapptointing just going over stuff that mostly dont have answers
[12:59] Motor Loon so dont select Last locatioin ?
[12:59] Aki Shichiroji i usually just try logging in from one of the known regions, like Ahern or Dore
[12:59] Nyx Linden Amethyst - please create a jira for the feature request
[12:59] Aki Shichiroji (for beta grid)
[12:59] Amethyst (niranv.dean) ok
[12:59] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) no info hubs for beta grid?
[12:59] Nal (nalates.urriah) Daliha: try logging into MOrris or PathTest1 if your last location is down.
[12:59] Motor Loon err not PathTest1
[12:59] dahlia1337 resident (dahlia.trimble) pathtest1 is usually always down
[12:59] Motor Loon thats like always down
[12:59] Motor Loon yeah
[13:00] Nyx Linden next topic: "Will anyone ever fix the shrunken convex hull bug? https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-28416 Drongle McMahon"
[13:00] JIRA-helper [#VWR-28416] Mesh: Default convex hull is smaller than it should be. - Second Life Bug Tracker
[13:00] Aki Shichiroji is that like the default hull the uploader comes up with if you don't set a specific file or LOD?
[13:01] Drongle McMahon Yes
[13:01] Aki Shichiroji ah ok.
[13:01] Motor Loon this is not put in on purpose to fix the 10cm gap thing is it?
[13:01] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) lol
[13:01] Nyx Linden that is with going through the decomposition process with default parameters, or doing no decomp?
[13:02] Drongle McMahon Neither - it's the default hull you get when you select Convex hull physics shape type, whether you make a physics shape or not.
[13:02] Lysandra (lysander.ashbourne) prep linden... you look so... ergonomic
[13:02] Motor Loon lol
[13:02] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) i like Prep`s look
[13:03] Al Blindside If the preview window wasn't so small we might evem see the gap......
[13:03] Lysandra (lysander.ashbourne) i was wondering where i could buy that outfit...
[13:03] Nyx Linden Drongle - ok. currently the bug is sitting on the backlog, I don't think its a high priority - is there a piece of content that is particularly broken by this bug?
[13:03] Drongle McMahon You can see the shrinkage in physics shape view, and you can walk into the edges of a large mesh.
[13:04] Tiberious Neruda Yuzuru's roads?
[13:04] Nyx Linden right, I can see the bug, I'm wondering if you have an example piece of content that shows why its a big issue.
[13:04] Drongle McMahon Yes ... it was the roads that made me think of it. Any content using Convex hull shape type is affected.
[13:05] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) I think it was changed when mesh object was moved.
[13:05] Drongle McMahon Well, I work around it by making a physics shape. It's people w
[13:05] Drongle McMahon ho don't know thyat who get caught.
[13:05] Motor Loon so, when they fix it now - your workaround-objects will break then °͜°
[13:05] Aki Shichiroji i experience that a bit with some of my terrain pieces, but mostly because I'm being lazy and not uploading a physics LOD. Once i'm done with getting the placement right, i usually go back to add one though.
[13:06] Nyx Linden ok, I'll mention it internally.
[13:06] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) or coped from rezzed prim.
[13:06] Aki Shichiroji making a physics shape is really relatively easy if you already know how to model and cut down on faces...
[13:06] Drongle McMahon No - they will be fine. Suppliedc shapes are not affected.
[13:06] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) Why use Convex Hull on a road? Feels like it makes more sense to make a simplified physics mash for the collision shape instead.
[13:06] Motor Loon I'd sure use a PRIM setting for a road too
[13:06] Al Blindside I have a suggestion : Given that sculpties wer a 'bespoke' part of SL then why not get a third party to make a plug in like Gaia Clary's 'SL Collada' which filters out all non-sl stuff (like exceeded face counts etc) for the likes of Blender?
[13:06] Leviathan Flux that's one of the great benefits of mesh
[13:06] Leviathan Flux being able to customize the physcis
[13:06] Leviathan Flux physics*
[13:07] Drongle McMahon It's the sort of bug that would annoy me intensely if I were responsible for the code! Each to his own.
[13:07] dahlia1337 resident (dahlia.trimble) is there a way to define our own convex hulls instead of using the decomposition?
[13:07] Leviathan Flux why
[13:07] dahlia1337 resident (dahlia.trimble) why not?
[13:08] Nyx Linden you can define your own physics mesh, but that is generally more expensive than convex hulls
[13:08] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) You should be able to make an even more efficient collision shape than convex hull if you make it yourself.
[13:08] Drongle McMahon Dahlia ... you can force thyem by supplying a physics mesh already consisting of them.
[13:08] Leviathan Flux because you can already define the physics shape
[13:08] dahlia1337 resident (dahlia.trimble) I dont mean a physics mesh, I mean a hull
[13:08] Aki Shichiroji yeah, i find it cuts down on costs if i make my own rather than relying on the decomp.
[13:08] Drongle McMahon So do I
[13:08] dahlia1337 resident (dahlia.trimble) bypassing the decomposition stage
[13:09] Geenz Spad in this case, "physics shape" and "physics hull" are effectively the same thing
[13:09] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) Nyx, Does Convex hull do anything more than fill in holes and lower the face count to 256 triangles max?
[13:09] Drongle McMahon Just give it the hulls as meshes and the decomposer will copy them.
[13:10] Nyx Linden convex hull tries to reduce the physical representation to a single convex hull, so it will also eliminate any concavities
[13:10] Al Blindside Also - given that beautiful in world tools like Mesh Studio and Celzium now exist - why not ask the guys - The BlackBox and Cel Edman to write a plug in module for the main menu so we can create in world without having the hassles of translating stuff from out of world tools that were never designed for puspose?
[13:11] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) Al, go to his office hour. Join sweet Sculpties to get a notice.
[13:11] Al Blindside I'm in that group
[13:11] Leviathan Flux in-world mesh creator?
[13:11] Al Blindside Yes - there are great tools now
[13:11] Nyx Linden any other topics for today?
[13:11] √ÑlveKatt (davido.chrome) If you want to talk to the Black box, that's your best bet. :)
[13:12] Rusalka Writer We feel done.
[13:12] Motor Loon we almost done, I wanna have dinner so I can eat this cookie that Nyx gave me...
[13:12] Rusalka Writer I'm certainly confused enough.
[13:12] Leviathan Flux woudl LL consider putting some sort of limits or guidelines on face count of uploads?
[13:12] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) i want have diner too
[13:12] Al Blindside Is the cookie on your hard drive?
[13:12] Drongle McMahon Al ... because you have to pay them?
[13:12] Leviathan Flux and I think Kendra had a question about uploading textures i was curious about too
[13:12] Al Blindside It's chump change compared to licences
[13:12] Leviathan Flux oh she left
[13:12] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) I gave him a tracking cookie, so soon I will know all his secrets!
[13:13] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) so by the end of the next week we will have the HAVOK issues resolved like crossing sims with mesh vehicules without problems?
[13:13] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) MUAHAHAHA!
[13:13] Motor Loon °͜°
[13:13] Motor Loon chocolate chip tracking cookie
[13:13] Rusalka Writer Yep, we're done.
[13:13] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) lol, a tracking cookie
[13:13] Nyx Linden oh a quick announcement - no usergroup next week
[13:13] Tiberious Neruda o.o
[13:13] Leviathan Flux ?
[13:13] Motor Loon awwww
[13:13] Rusalka Writer Dang.
[13:13] Drongle McMahon Aarrgghhh!
[13:13] Leviathan Flux we're done?
[13:13] dahlia1337 resident (dahlia.trimble) bear shaped chocolate chip cookies :D
[13:13] Nyx Linden we will pick back up on the 13th
[13:13] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) uh!?!
[13:13] Drongle McMahon Why not?
[13:13] Tia Aquila (tia.biscuit) [12:52:08] κεɴɖરλ (kendra.zaurak): Nyx, when we will be able to upload a mesh with the textures?
[13:13] Gramma Fiddlesticks well shoot. What will we do at noon on Moday?
[13:13] Aki Shichiroji your regularly scheduled user group is being coopted due to Olympics :P
[13:13] Motor Loon nooo... the sky is falling... you cant leave us a whole week nyyyyx
[13:13] dahlia1337 resident (dahlia.trimble) with red M&Ms for eyes
[13:13] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) Oh, if internet cookies were the kind you could eat... I guess I would be fat...
[13:13] Leviathan Flux [13:12] Leviathan Flux: woudl LL consider putting some sort of limits or guidelines on face count of uploads?
[13:14] Prep Linden gonna jet folks - see you all on the 13th! have a good one.
[13:14] Aki Shichiroji that's what is being done to the vast number of shows i follow right now
[13:14] Lysandra (lysander.ashbourne) booo olympics! *doesn't watch that stuff*
[13:14] Rusalka Writer Aloha!
[13:14] Motor Loon tc Prep
[13:14] Gramma Fiddlesticks bye prep.
[13:14] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) k, 13th then
[13:14] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) see ya Prep
[13:14] Adamburp Adamczyk happy birthday prep, only just relaised
[13:14] Aki Shichiroji Thanks for the meeting, Nyx, Prep, Vir :)
[13:14] Leviathan Flux I am feeling ignored
[13:14] Nyx Linden as for textured meshes - there are still some bugs behind that, but it is intended to work
[13:14] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) see ya Nyx and Vir
[13:14] Rusalka Writer Groovy.
[13:14] Rusalka Writer Used to work.
[13:14] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) until 13th
[13:14] Al Blindside TY the Linden guys - and all else who took part
[13:15] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) Thank you for your time Lindens!
[13:15] Rusalka Writer Cheers, all!
[13:15] Aki Shichiroji isn't there already a face limit?
[13:15] Leviathan Flux this was very disappoiting
[13:15] Nyx Linden and there are limits on the number of faces allowed in an upload
[13:15] Motor Loon luv' ya all... tc
[13:15] Leviathan Flux disappointing*
[13:15] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) 64 k limit
[13:15] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) right?
[13:15] Bazz Fazz (vir.linden) Bye!
[13:15] Aki Shichiroji Leviathan: in the future, add your question to the agenda
[13:15] Gramma Fiddlesticks see yah Nyx, Vir and everyone. Gotta head off to kitchen to bake!
[13:15] Leviathan Flux yeah but I mean more practical
[13:15] Drongle McMahon 64k per material?
[13:15] Rusalka Writer Aloha!
[13:15] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) Wow, that's a lot...
[13:15] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) see ya all guys at 13th
[13:15] Leviathan Flux for the people that are uploading 80 prim table cloths
[13:15] Aki Shichiroji Leviathan: think of it this way:
[13:15] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) 64 k per mesh object, not sure
[13:15] jr (jr4201.kruyschek) TC all
[13:15] Aki Shichiroji the market for lower prim objects will push those people out :P
[13:15] Nyx Linden Leviathan - its hard to tell programatically what a "table cloth" is
[13:16] Geenz Spad yay 16-bit vertex indexes :>
[13:16] Leviathan Flux I understand
[13:16] Leviathan Flux but
[13:16] Nyx Linden an 80 prim house, however, is perfectly acceptable
[13:16] Leviathan Flux if they designate a category
[13:16] Leviathan Flux like
[13:16] Tia Aquila (tia.biscuit) perhaps by size of the object?
[13:16] Leviathan Flux hey im uploading a 500 prim 1 room shack
[13:16] Leviathan Flux the number could be in red to show that's high
[13:16] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) Can make houses a lot prim cheaper if you are good with texture illusions!
[13:16] Aki Shichiroji i think it needs to be regulated on a personal, one on one basis.
[13:17] Rusalka Writer You can't save everybody.
[13:17] Leviathan Flux i know
[13:17] Leviathan Flux that's my point
[13:17] Aki Shichiroji i keep an eye out for script heavy items in my sims, for instance.
[13:17] Jalynne Ohmai I'm obsessed with half prim meshes personally.
[13:17] Tiberious Neruda problem is...
[13:17] Leviathan Flux so people arent uploading models that hog resources and lag people out
[13:17] Tiberious Neruda ....if polycounts get too high, I'll CRASH if I try to select them
[13:17] Jalynne Ohmai it's so much fun to copy and link them.
[13:18] Leviathan Flux if there is some sort of system like you pick clothing, then jacket, then if it's like 40k faces could show that's high for a piece of clothing
[13:18] Kennylex Luckless Can any Linden, please take trip to Ambleside and clean up after griefer
[13:18] Leviathan Flux i feel like this should be a crucial issue
[13:18] Geenz Spad best thing to do is educate people on efficient modeling practices from the sounds of it
[13:18] Rusalka Writer People uploading stupid stuff is a good source of L$ for LL. Once they check the prim count it's their problem.
[13:18] Aki Shichiroji people have been doing that with prim and sculpt for a while. there's not a lot you can do except ask that they cut down
[13:18] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) Ah yeah, maybe face count should be displayed in Marketplace?
[13:18] Rusalka Writer Nobody buys it, it's their problem.
[13:18] Rusalka Writer Somebody does, it's their problem.
[13:18] Qie Niangao (arguably, *attached* mesh can be unhelpfully complex without much effective limiting... but there's always avatar imposters, I guess)
[13:18] Aki Shichiroji consider the shoe and hair-makers who routinely use 100+ prims to create individual objects.
[13:18] Nyx Linden I'm open to suggestions, but it is "very difficult" to specifically set and enforce such limits - it should be a factor of education and informed building/purchasing
[13:19] Rusalka Writer And the zillion-prim jewelry.
[13:19] Tiberious Neruda 255... sculpted... spikes...
[13:19] Leviathan Flux yeah that's why i suggested guidelines as well
[13:19] Geenz Spad sounds like a nice little wiki project!
[13:19] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) Oh my, yeah, my hair is 105 prims...
[13:19] Rusalka Writer But that's communism.
[13:19] Tiberious Neruda 500,000 triangles... JUST FOR HAIR!
[13:19] Leviathan Flux there are a lot of people that still see attached mesh as 0 land impact and think that means it's 0 prims
[13:19] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) Geenz, it has started one.
[13:20] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) Let me find the link.
[13:20] Geenz Spad wasn't aware that someone had put that up by now
[13:20] Geenz Spad I know it's been mentioned a few times that someone should get on that
[13:20] ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Good_Building_Practices
[13:20] Tia Aquila (tia.biscuit) Aye, perhaps by size or like Lev says category and even penalty if your stuff is found to be stupidly over?
[13:21] Aki Shichiroji the sad thing is... you could paste that link to any number of the content creator community and have people ignore it because they want THEIR product to be the star of the show.
[13:21] Geenz Spad /me notices "Mesh and LOD" hasn't been created yet
[13:21] Rusalka Writer Well, kids, plowing old fields here. I'm off.
[13:21] Aki Shichiroji the problem is, when EVERYONE does that, EVERYONE suffers.
[13:21] Nyx Linden I need to head out - feel free to add topics for next time. See everyone on the 13th!


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