Doc Team/2009-01-07

List of Attendees

Transcript

[13:01 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: Hi! Glad I made it! Wasn't sure of the timing!
[13:02 SLT] Kate Linden: Thanks for coming PazDinero
[13:02 SLT] Gregorii Robbiani: maybe retro 2004 is cutting edge now
[13:02 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Whoa, what a crowd!
[13:02 SLT] Zai Lynch: oh ellow marianne ^_^
[13:02 SLT] Torley Linden: JEREMY OF THE GLOWING EYES
[13:02 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Torley Linden has pinged you.
[13:02 SLT] Marianne McCann: Hiya
[13:02 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: This is the spot to be!
[13:02 SLT] Torley Linden: Gregorii, yeah, that's the funny thing with fashion, it keeps... coming around in circles.
[13:02 SLT] Kate Linden: Hi Miarianne, nice to see you :)
[13:02 SLT] Panda Kling: nice couches
[13:02 SLT] Jeremy Linden: And... Torley Sr.?
[13:02 SLT] Torley Linden: yes!
[13:02 SLT] Marianne McCann: Hi Kate, Torley Jeremy, everybuggy
[13:02 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Marianne McCann has pinged you.
[13:02 SLT] Kate Linden: Hi Panda
[13:02 SLT] Torley Linden: hai hai welcome to our Documentation Team office hours. =^_^=
[13:02 SLT] Marianne McCann: Ah did you get the textures to work on the Torley Sr.? Cool
[13:03 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: Torley! In your characteristic style!
[13:03 SLT] Torley Linden: Mari, yes, it was that nvidia graphics bug... and i'm on my Mac right now.
[13:03 SLT] Marianne McCann: Ah, cool.
[13:03 SLT] Torley Linden: if any of you have curiosities about our Knowledge Base (like SL's manual, only awesomer), you're most welcome to ask :) http://secondlife.com/kb is the easy to remember address
[13:04 SLT] Kate Linden: We started chatter in twitter this morning about the name "coalesced object". I'd be interested in your feedback about that name or if you think grouped objects should have a different name.
[13:04 SLT] Marianne McCann: I responded on that briefly in a tweet to wither you or Torley
[13:04 SLT] Jeremy Linden can be found on Twitter as Jeremy_Linden
[13:04 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Jeremy Linden has pinged you.
[13:04 SLT] Marianne McCann: I think it's a fine enough name, all things considered.
[13:04 SLT] Kate Linden: https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=4581
[13:04 SLT] Zai Lynch: it's been referred to as "coalesced" in 3 video tuts so far, so i think it would cause confusion to alter it now
[13:05 SLT] Torley Linden: Zai, you're sharp... context tho: only reason why i used that term was because it was what had already been established (for awhile), not because it was a great term. you'll also remember that's what i mentioned in some of them too, about it being confusing.
[13:05 SLT] Marianne McCann: What sort of feedback did you get from other tweets? Did people understand the term?
[13:05 SLT] Kate Linden: When you first started using Second Life, was it a confusing term and how long did it take before you were comfortable knowing how to find a coalesced object in inventory?
[13:05 SLT] Torley Linden: i think understanding the concept is more important regardless of what it is called, but we'd appreciate feedback
[13:05 SLT] Gregorii Robbiani: Torley, I took saved the snapshot to disk, and it came out with the correct proportions on my hard drive. But when I Upload Image to bring it into SL, it comes out square again. I wonder what I am doing wrong?
[13:05 SLT] Torley Linden: heya Ayda! Ghosty!
[13:05 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: Any difference from calling them "linked objects"?
[13:05 SLT] Marianne McCann: Hey Ghosty!
[13:05 SLT] Torley Linden: oh Ghosty my heeeeaad
[13:05 SLT] Ghosty Kips: Hallo :D
[13:06 SLT] Kate Linden: Hi Ghosty
[13:06 SLT] Torley Linden: Gregorii, that is normal, if unintuitive behavior. you are doing *nothing* wrong.
[13:06 SLT] Zai Lynch: linked would be easy to mix up with actual linked items
[13:06 SLT] Marianne McCann: Paz - they're not necessarily linked, though
[13:06 SLT] Torley Linden: Gregorii, every single Second Life texture *must* be powers of 2. so you can crop it in Photoshop to dimensions which match,
[13:06 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Heh. In fact, they're necessarily not linked, or else they'd just be one item :-)
[13:06 SLT] Kate Linden: Hi Squirrel
[13:06 SLT] Squirrel Wood: Friendly Greetings!
[13:06 SLT] Torley Linden: FRIENDLY GREETINGS
[13:06 SLT] Marianne McCann: They're objects taken in a group into inventory.
[13:07 SLT] Kate Linden: Some of the suggestions we received were
[13:07 SLT] Ayda Aldrin: greetings all
[13:07 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Or returned in a group, which is also common.
[13:07 SLT] Kate Linden: temporary unit
[13:07 SLT] Kate Linden: grouped objects
[13:07 SLT] Torley Linden: my own bias in this: i like the term "combined objects" because like "use vs. utilized", it doesn't get too fancy but illustrates the basic point. "grouped" or "bundled" i'm also cool with.
[13:07 SLT] Marianne McCann: An ya, jes cuz it's been called that in the past, doesn't mean it's the best. Tryst me, that's an argument I've had for... years... with GTeam
[13:07 SLT] Marianne McCann winks
[13:07 SLT] Kate Linden: Multiple objects
[13:07 SLT] Ghosty Kips: hehe ok now that im ressed, I see I think im a linden :p
[13:07 SLT] Marianne McCann: Perhaps even "multiple objects"
[13:07 SLT] Torley Linden: trivia: the term isn't used in the user interface. you just see the icon.
[13:08 SLT] Torley Linden: Mari, that is a good point in that when you select multiple objects in world, that's the actual text!
[13:08 SLT] Gregorii Robbiani: Thanks Torley
[13:08 SLT] Torley Linden: oh feel free to sit near me, i have absolutely no problem with that :)
[13:08 SLT] Marianne McCann: "Multiple" is th word I use when explaining concated objects to those who are not familiar with th' term
[13:08 SLT] Squirrel Wood: /ao off
[13:08 SLT] Ghosty Kips: :)
[13:08 SLT] Torley Linden: you're welcome Gregorii. i know it's somewhat odd and puzzling but that is how it works.
[13:08 SLT] Zai Lynch: hm... i think the viewer never refers to this kind of object. so it would only be a change in the documentation (KB/Wiki/VidTut). and there, you can use explanations. and redirect "grouped object" to the current term. or vice versa
[13:09 SLT] Torley Linden: Kourosh! glad you could join us!
[13:09 SLT] Squirrel Wood: Do not be scared of Torley :p
[13:09 SLT] Gregorii Robbiani: I love taking snapshots, just starting but I am getting compulsive already
[13:09 SLT] Kate Linden: Right Zai. It would just be a Documentation change.
[13:09 SLT] Torley Linden: Zai, one of my feelings is whatever term is used, it may or may not be the term that propagates with Residents... so in some ways, it's a self-solving problem, even if the term itself isn't 100% accurate, if it's understood widely, then that serves the purpose of communication.
[13:09 SLT] Torley Linden: Gregorii: it's a wonderful compulsion to have! :D
[13:09 SLT] Marianne McCann: Gregoii - welcome to the photo addicted. Almost up to 5000 on Snapzilla, here
[13:09 SLT] Torley Linden: haha Mari knows all about that.
[13:10 SLT] Ghosty Kips: My beef with this particular type of object is that I cannot give it a name ... I end up renaming one of it's prims, the root prim I imagine aside from what to call that sort of object in the first place that is
[13:10 SLT] Zai Lynch: ^^
[13:10 SLT] Torley Linden: a similar example is how use of "sim" isn't always correct, but most people use "sim" instead of "region".
[13:10 SLT] Marianne McCann: Thanks for the tip on tiltshift maker, BTW, Torley. Makes that easy
[13:10 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: Yeah -- that's a good distinction -- and one I only recently became aware of.
[13:10 SLT] Torley Linden: Ghosty, i agree that the usability could be better -- that it'd be nice to expand/collapse and even preview them in your inventory. but that may not be for awhile.
[13:10 SLT] Squirrel Wood: The Sim is basically the "hardware" upon which the "region" runs ?
[13:10 SLT] Kate Linden: Ghosty true, the coalesced object takes the name of the last selected item
[13:10 SLT] Torley Linden: you're welcome Mari. :) i like seeing when things get trendy and then easy to use.
[13:11 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Actually, there are three parts that support a Region.
[13:11 SLT] Marianne McCann: I don't know if the term is the issue, but I know many do not understand conalesced objects. Both how to take them and the old "where di my object go?" issue when groups of items are returned
[13:11 SLT] Ghosty Kips: Well, for me, it makes it difficult to name my sculpures as objets, as they are typically sets of unlined prims rezzed as a group - no way to name the "object"
[13:11 SLT] Jeremy Linden: The server, which is the hardware it runs on, the simulator, which is the underlying server process the Region runs on, and the Region itself, which is the part we interact with here inworld.
[13:11 SLT] Zai Lynch: rand linden recently updated the article on the 'Sim' definition with a lil more technical explanation: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Sim
[13:11 SLT] Marianne McCann: Ghosty - even thought of naming a base prim or some such?
[13:12 SLT] Torley Linden: great explanation Jeremy :)
[13:12 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Torley Linden has pinged you.
[13:12 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: Recently I've had difficulty interacting with objects in the next region over -- ie, if i'm not in the same region, I can't pick up an object i've created or sit on an object.
[13:12 SLT] Zai Lynch: ah yuss. what jeremy said ^^
[13:12 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Zai Lynch has pinged you.
[13:12 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Could have been worded better, but it's a fun fact :-)
[13:12 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: I don't recall this being an issue.
[13:12 SLT] Marianne McCann: I know when I coalesce a store, I'll usually name a prim "Mari's Luna Store" and select it last
[13:12 SLT] Squirrel Wood: true. you cannot sit on an object that is not in the same region
[13:12 SLT] Marianne McCann: or whatever name, of course
[13:12 SLT] Torley Linden: hiya Beacon!
[13:12 SLT] Ghosty Kips: Mari - yes, but then I end up with that prim with that name, and that may not be what that prim in particular is at all. I use an invisible prim, last selected, as a workaround. Still :/
[13:12 SLT] Beacon Wirefly: hello!
[13:12 SLT] Marianne McCann: Hiya
[13:13 SLT] Squirrel Wood: For documentation purposes I insist that you bookmark http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRlUD0tb9z4 for later viewing ;) And yes, this is a blatant ad for my terraformer :p
[13:13 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: Mind if i join you over here? Torley?
[13:13 SLT] Marianne McCann: Zai? Are all your fish named Eric?
[13:13 SLT] Torley Linden: Squirrel, how is this for documentation purposes? to learn from? :) (great music choice with Ott, by the way)
[13:13 SLT] Kate Linden: When creating coalesced objects, the option to select the last prim with the name of the object is present. When objects are returned, the coalesced object takes on the name of the last returned object, which is not something you can rename.
[13:13 SLT] Torley Linden: not at all PazDinero! please come have a seat!
[13:14 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: Wow! Popular over here!
[13:14 SLT] Marianne McCann: I had wondered how it selected the name on a returned object
[13:14 SLT] Zai Lynch: hehe. just this single one ^^ but i take him out quite often ^^
[13:14 SLT] Torley Linden: it sure is a hot spot :)
[13:14 SLT] Marianne McCann: Sorry, Monty Python reference, Zai
[13:14 SLT] Marianne McCann grins
[13:14 SLT] Zai Lynch: whoops ^^
[13:15 SLT] Torley Linden: Mari, yeah, that's not apparent unless you experiment or learn firsthand. i find sometimes i shift-click and deliberately make one object the last one i select, so it can have a sensible name if it's part of a big collection.
[13:15 SLT] Jeremy Linden attempts to mute the windchimes.
[13:15 SLT] Squirrel Wood: for documentation purposes insofar as there is now another tool that can be used ;)
[13:15 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: so, shift-click to select groups does not automatically link them?
[13:15 SLT] Ghosty Kips: right, thats how I figured it out, trial and error
[13:15 SLT] Veronica Piers: Is the coalesced object(s) in a box that you open?
[13:15 SLT] Kate Linden: There is an experiment at the beginning of the KB article, which is helpful to teach other Residents about how objects are named and returned or taken to inventory.
[13:15 SLT] Torley Linden: that's right, PazDinero. you need to go to Tools menu > Link and manually link.
[13:15 SLT] Marianne McCann: Ya. As I often build in a workshop before taking a lage build to its site, I've grown used to that - but it was Robin Sojourner who taught me the "Last prim in" trick
[13:16 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: gotcha
[13:16 SLT] Squirrel Wood: as with linking, the last prim becomes the root prim.
[13:16 SLT] Kate Linden: https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=4581 <link again
[13:16 SLT] Gregorii Robbiani: Torley! I just did what you said, and it works - thanks!!
[13:16 SLT] Torley Linden: Veronica, no, it rezzes as-is. so if you take a bunch of scattered cubes (unlinked) at once and rez them, they'll appear in the same relative, messy positions inworld.
[13:16 SLT] Torley Linden: you're welcome Gregorii, yayzerama
[13:17 SLT] Torley Linden: it was nice to see Robin Sojourner on the Filter Forge forum, i've already known she does great things with textures.
[13:17 SLT] Kate Linden: Jurin! Hi nice to see you
[13:17 SLT] Marianne McCann: Oh yes. Expect to see me there as well, as I play with the beta
[13:17 SLT] Zai Lynch: but don't rez 'em next to 'no build' land :p
[13:17 SLT] Marianne McCann: And her next series of in world classes start in Feb (on alphas)
[13:17 SLT] Ghosty Kips: and its not always desireable to have all the prims in an object linked, or to rename a prim just to make the coalesced object properly named in inventory
[13:17 SLT] Torley Linden: yes, DO NOT REZ THEM NEXT TO NO BUILD LAND! even had to make a video public service announcement
[13:17 SLT] Kate Linden: Zai , torley has created a new video tutorial that helps explain rezzing near no-build parcel dangers.
[13:18 SLT] Marianne McCann: (and there's my shameless plug of the hour)
[13:18 SLT] Kate Linden: It is included in that article now.
[13:18 SLT] Torley Linden: as Grandmaster Flash might say, "don't rez your objects too close to the edge... you're trying not to lose your... CONTENT!"
[13:18 SLT] Ghosty Kips: lol mari
[13:18 SLT] Zai Lynch: yuss. i just added it to the wiki today. that's why i referred to it ^^
[13:18 SLT] Kate Linden: Awesome
[13:18 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: Right. But sometimes it will be lost forever -- without being returned!
[13:18 SLT] Kate Linden: Hi Jurin :)
[13:18 SLT] Torley Linden: Zai you are so on top of these things, have you talked to Daniel Voyager? i have a great feeling your meticulous compilation skillz would rock on
[13:18 SLT] Jurin Juran: hello :)
[13:19 SLT] Zai Lynch: oh i've not met im inworld so far but got him on my list. we've been chatting via the wiki talkpages sometimes
[13:19 SLT] Torley Linden: ah ahh good to know =) would be a fine meeting of minds i feel
[13:19 SLT] Zai Lynch: :-)
[13:20 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: I've been watching some of your video (tech) tutorials, Torley. Great stuff! I just finished the one on the mini-map.
[13:20 SLT] Zai Lynch: that leads me to one issue i'm carrying with me since about march 2008 or so... and finally filed a jira for it... http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-910 - Change license of KB to allow the use of KB content in the SL™ Wiki
[13:20 SLT] Kate Linden: Paz, its definately good to ensure there is enough sqm when rezzing a coalesced object, especially when near a no-build area. If the coalesced object contains no copy objects, they should not be rezzed across that type of parcel boundary.
[13:20 SLT] Zai Lynch: do you think that would be possible? o.O
[13:20 SLT] Torley Linden: oh why thank you kindly PazDinero. there are more changes to the mini-map coming we plan to explain!
[13:20 SLT] Torley Linden: *looks at that issue... thx Zai*
[13:20 SLT] Marianne McCann: Passed a couple of them (on gesture creation) onto some folks on the forums yesterday.
[13:20 SLT] Zai Lynch: welcome
[13:20 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: I notice your ability to change layers (ie what is displayed) on the world map is independent from what is displayed on the mini-map.
[13:21 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: Reall? Any hints you can give us as to new functionality?
[13:21 SLT] Marianne McCann: An ya, I like the yellow dot on the mini in the RC
[13:21 SLT] Torley Linden: PazDinero, for example, in 1.22, friends on mini-map will be YELLOW like Mari sez
[13:21 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: That's neat.
[13:21 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: Greetings to all, apologies for lateness.
[13:21 SLT] Squirrel Wood: For some reason the client thinks the couch here is for sale as it shows the L$ icon on the mouse cursor
[13:21 SLT] Zai Lynch: hey there =)
[13:22 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: Will we be able to do custom colors? Like for different groups we're in?
[13:22 SLT] Kate Linden: Hi Soap :)
[13:22 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: I started watchin Hitchock and realised I'd forgotten something...this ^^
[13:22 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: Kate ^^
[13:22 SLT] Marianne McCann: Same here, Squirrel
[13:22 SLT] Torley Linden: Zai we've had discussions about the opposite too. i don't know about legal restrictions, it'd be something we need to "look into further" as they say.
[13:22 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: How about being able to hide dots from malicious avs?
[13:22 SLT] Zai Lynch: yuss. just wanted to check if it's still on the radar...
[13:22 SLT] Torley Linden: i <3 Creative Commons... and i am going to relog.
[13:22 SLT] Squirrel Wood: Also if you want to do video documentation or showcasing, at least on windows systems you can use the free http://camstudio.org/ capturing program for that ^^
[13:22 SLT] Zai Lynch: ^_^
[13:23 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: oops
[13:23 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: SL is being horrible to me
[13:23 SLT] Zai Lynch: ^^ ouch
[13:23 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: Sorry
[13:23 SLT] Zai Lynch: np ^^
[13:23 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: Things decide to rezz only after i've walked all over them
[13:23 SLT] Torley Linden: back back on the set and covering all bets, what'd i miss my fellow avatars?
[13:23 SLT] Squirrel Wood tosses http://camstudio.org/ at Torley :p
[13:23 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: you can have my seat, Torley!
[13:23 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: You missed me crushing zai's head, Torley
[13:23 SLT] Marianne McCann: We solved all known problems, Torley
[13:23 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: that was all lol.
[13:24 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Ooh, camstudio. I played with that a little bit, about a year ago.
[13:24 SLT] Athene Kirax: sorry Torley didn't mean to steal your seat
[13:24 SLT] Torley Linden: i tried this before Squirrel but didn't find it as suited to my workflow as Camtasia. thanks tho!
[13:24 SLT] Zai Lynch: the solution was 42...
[13:24 SLT] Squirrel Wood: yep. It can be a bit painful to use
[13:24 SLT] Torley Linden: it's nice it's free. i'm still looking for the best optimized path (with enhanced audio) from screen to YouTube HD.
[13:24 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Hmm...
[13:24 SLT] Squirrel Wood: ^^
[13:24 SLT] Torley Linden: no problem, you can rob my seat like Jack Sparrow on a Saturday Night something
[13:24 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: Will the new map build have any functionality -- like hiding malicious avs from the mini-map? or changing group colors?
[13:24 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Jing Pro allows direct uploads to YouTube, but I haven't figured out if you can record sound with it yet.
[13:24 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: Wow!
[13:25 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: Saavy!
[13:25 SLT] Ghosty Kips: what's a "malicious av"?
[13:25 SLT] Squirrel Wood: I just used winbugs movie slayer
[13:25 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: someone stalking you or something.
[13:25 SLT] Torley Linden: PazDinero, these were discussed before -- those features aren't planned yet that i know of. hiding malicious avs was deemed to not be worthwhile because there are better ways to deal with harassment like muting inworld, which reduces them to a gray generic shape.
[13:25 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: My friend and I were trying on new swimwear -- and we had some issues with a user not respecting our privacy.
[13:25 SLT] Torley Linden: and you should always file an abuse report so they don't bother you. period!
[13:26 SLT] Torley Linden: Jeremy, yeah, thanks a lot for your earlier test videos!
[13:26 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Torley Linden has pinged you.
[13:26 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: Note: the 'basic grey shape' only works if you have avatar imposters turned on.
[13:26 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: Makes sense. Any word on the various colors for groups?
[13:26 SLT] Ghosty Kips: besieds, privacy is much like everything else in SL ... artificial and often for decoration only :)
[13:26 SLT] Torley Linden: PazDinero: specifically what did you have in mind?
[13:27 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: I guess -- if all of your friends will be Yellow -- but you have different friends in different groups. I thought it would be neat to differentiate them using different colors.
[13:27 SLT] Zai Lynch: i _think_ the map dot color discussion was something discussed in the SLUX mailing list. i'm not sure if lindens were involved though.
[13:27 SLT] Torley Linden: PazDinero: ah, i haven't heard anything about that.
[13:28 SLT] Marianne McCann: The only issue I've seen with the yellow dot is it looks abotu like my gold dot on the mini. But that's not documentation
[13:28 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: One thing I would like to know. Is now that the new homepage is up and running, how LL plans to bring the Knowledgebase to the forefront of the website so that new people can find it easier by themselves?
[13:28 SLT] Marianne McCann winks
[13:28 SLT] Torley Linden: i am very used to color-coding some things and see where that could come in handy. for anyone here who's used Ableton Live, they have a very nice color coded track system for making music. :)
[13:28 SLT] Ghosty Kips: that would be a neat feature, being able to pick out friends from other dots on the minimap?
[13:28 SLT] Torley Linden: Soap, great question!
[13:28 SLT] Marianne McCann: Ghosty - it's in the RC. very handy
[13:28 SLT] Ghosty Kips: lol sweet, ive been out of touch lol
[13:29 SLT] Torley Linden: as you already know, the Knowledge Base is linked to via http://secondlife.com/support/
[13:29 SLT] Torley Linden: which is one click away on the front page
[13:29 SLT] Squirrel Wood: I would suggest surrounding the dots with different colored rings that represent your groups ?
[13:29 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: Torley, speaking of music. Are you going to lay down any juicy riffs with that keyboard!?
[13:29 SLT] Torley Linden: we are very driven about making the intro experience easier... and i know Jeremy and Kate have lovely thoughts and ideas on this =o)
[13:29 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Torley Linden has pinged you.
[13:29 SLT] Zai Lynch: that's support portal. knowledge base is either http://secondlife.com/kb or support.secondlife.com
[13:30 SLT] Torley Linden: PazDinero, TRIVIA TIME: this keyboard was the very first thing i ever built inworld. learned to do basic textures. it isn't scripted... yet. but i'm all for a juicy riff.
[13:30 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: I think there should be a link directly to the Knowledgebase ON the homepage, rather than through support. Not all NR's associate support with the word 'help' when it comes to wanting to know, say, how to wear hair.
[13:30 SLT] Zai Lynch: btw: i found it unintuitive that support.secondlife.com and secondlife.com/support/ linked to different pages

[13:30 SLT] Ghosty Kips: colored rings for diff groups might be a bit difficult - 25 different colors? :) but maybe a ring for those in your currently active group?
[13:30 SLT] Torley Linden: we are also going to be promoting the Knowledge Base through other means. you can never go wrong heightening awareness. ;)
[13:30 SLT] Torley Linden: stay tuned for more on that. *mysterious voice*
[13:31 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: lol.
[13:31 SLT] Ghosty Kips: hehheh
[13:31 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Zai, that wasn't always the case. We're trying to push "secondlife.com/kb" more, instead.
[13:31 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: Hey Kate, I notice you're TNT group -- but don't see it listed in your profile. What's the group about?
[13:31 SLT] Torley Linden: oh, and for any of you who are WindLight fans, in 1.22 going forward, WindLight settings are stored in a more sensible place where they won't get accidentally overwritten by future versions (especially true on Mac). they're in your user settings now.
[13:31 SLT] Zai Lynch: ah... i see
[13:31 SLT] Torley Linden: *nods in agreement with Jeremy* it's just plain easier to remember http://secondlife.com/kb
[13:31 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Torley Linden has pinged you.
[13:32 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: Mac users rejoice!
[13:32 SLT] Ghosty Kips: nice, ive had to make backups of mine ot this point
[13:32 SLT] Kate Linden: Paz, Tips & Tricks is the name of our new blog page comging soon to the newly designed web site.
[13:32 SLT] Soap Clawtooth rejoices.
[13:32 SLT] Marianne McCann: Excellent, Torley. Was tired of going into "Package contents"
[13:32 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: Kate -- great! look forward to it!
[13:32 SLT] Marianne McCann: Sounds like fodder for a Vidtut, too, Torley
[13:32 SLT] Torley Linden: yeah Mari :) i need to update the WindLight page
[13:32 SLT] Torley Linden: i already put a note there
[13:33 SLT] Torley Linden: so you'll find the usual "skies" and "water" sub-folders in your "user_settings" folders. oh let me stop being vague and get exact paths.
[13:33 SLT] Kate Linden: Me too Paz! I'm looking forward to putting out KB Articles of the Week again, and getting comments/feedback, and much more.
[13:33 SLT] Torley Linden: Windows XP (Vista is somewhat different i think): C:\Documents and Settings\[USERNAME]\Application Data\SecondLife\user_settings\windlight
[13:34 SLT] Soap Clawtooth mumbles something about vista always being different.
[13:34 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: Hey -- did you see the watermelon up on top of the J&J&K sign?
[13:34 SLT] Squirrel Wood: hmm
[13:34 SLT] Squirrel Wood: I did not have problems with overwritten wl settings so far
[13:34 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Yeah, we need to make a new sign!
[13:34 SLT] Torley Linden: Mac: [USERNAME] > Library > Application Support > SecondLife > user_settings > windlight
[13:34 SLT] Squirrel Wood: at least my labyrinth one has stayed where I put it
[13:34 SLT] Marianne McCann: yups Paz. Looks like someone hasta repaint that wall
[13:35 SLT] Torley Linden: Squirel, you won't usually on Windows. unless you delete the SecondLife folder.
[13:35 SLT] Torley Linden: on Mac, however, the package gets overwritten.
[13:35 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: I just had a brainwave, you know....
[13:35 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: Make 'Knowledgebase' a tab in the search window, much like Showcase, and funnel the KB website into it....?
[13:35 SLT] Marianne McCann: How curisou, I don't seem to have that path for some reason
[13:36 SLT] Squirrel Wood: and LSL Wiki ?
[13:36 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Heh. Soap, we've been wanting to do something like that for quite awhile. It's been slow going, but I think we'll eventually get it in there.
[13:36 SLT] Torley Linden: hmmm Mari does Spotlight bring it up?
[13:36 SLT] Ghosty Kips: agreed, the kb should absolutle be accessable within the client
[13:36 SLT] Marianne McCann: Soap, I like that. I personally tend to prefer inworld documentation. "Use the world," after all
[13:36 SLT] Squirrel Wood: the LSL kb too!
[13:36 SLT] Torley Linden: and Mari, you may only see that if you've saved WindLight settings in 1.22 RC.
[13:36 SLT] Torley Linden: they end up in there. :)
[13:36 SLT] Kate Linden: Soap, you can do that on your web tab for now.
[13:37 SLT] Torley Linden: yes, i'd love to search KB in Search > All like we can search the Wiki.
[13:37 SLT] Zai Lynch: hm... we got an inworld browser. so is accessable via the client(?)
[13:37 SLT] Marianne McCann: Ah, that might be it. I know I have custos in the package. Lemme try a save
[13:37 SLT] Zai Lynch: ah i see
[13:37 SLT] Marianne McCann: customs*
[13:37 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Well, there *is* the inworld browser. You can enable it by choosing "Use built-in web browser" on the Web tab of Edit > Preferences.
[13:37 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: Good idea, Soap -- inworld searching would be a lot more convenient!
[13:37 SLT] Torley Linden: but otherwise Mari, in "user_settings" try creating a "windlight" folder, a "skies" folder inside that, and putting some of those .xml in there.
[13:37 SLT] Ghosty Kips: yes, but let's put the kb right out there for newbies. give it its own button on the inworld browser or something
[13:37 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: OF course that would mean thet the search window had to be resizeable to avoid the monotony of constant scrolling from left to right
[13:37 SLT] Torley Linden: aye! you can also use Help menu > Official Linden Blog and change the addy.
[13:37 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: Or a restructuring of the KB to fit into it neatly
[13:38 SLT] Marianne McCann: Curious. No such animal, Torley, even after saving a setting. I'll tinker with that some time later.
[13:39 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: Kind of off-topic... but has anyone found a way to play hide-and-seek?
[13:39 SLT] Torley Linden: hmm ok hope you see it soon Mari :)
[13:39 SLT] Torley Linden: PazDinero, not convincingly. i used to play some games where we abided by the honor system and hid the mini-map. but you can't really tell if someone is being tricky and has it open.
[13:39 SLT] Squirrel Wood: Suggestion: Get ahold of all freebie stuff that is out there in the world and add it to the common library in your inventory. then get rid of all identical copies in all inventories. I'm sure the asset servers would throw a party! ^^
[13:39 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: Right. I guess it comes down to trust among yer friends, eh?
[13:40 SLT] Marianne McCann: What Torley said. Gotta accept that mini map and av scanning isn't in play
[13:40 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Paz, I imagine someone could script an SL-specific version of hide and seek, that used the entire map as a playing field.
[13:40 SLT] Jeremy Linden: In fact, I think there was a movie tie-in game here that was kind of like hide and seek with guns. "Smokin' Aces" was the name.
[13:41 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: That's interesting, Jeremy. How'd that work? (basically, speaking, of course)
[13:41 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): PazDinero Galaxy has pinged you.
[13:41 SLT] Marianne McCann: Jeremy - yes! Wasn't it within a multi level hotel?
[13:41 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Marianne McCann has pinged you.
[13:41 SLT] Torley Linden: i didn't watch the movie but i visited the hotel, that was very cool.
[13:41 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: Cool. Is it still avail?
[13:41 SLT] Torley Linden: not that i know of.
[13:41 SLT] Jeremy Linden: I don't remember where, but it reminded me of that old game, "Assassin" that some of you may have played in school.
[13:42 SLT] Torley Linden: Smoking Aces had an awesome penthouse. http://www.flickr.com/photos/torley/367776210/
[13:42 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: kind of a seek and destroy!
[13:42 SLT] Torley Linden: but you really had to be in there, guns blazing, to appreciate it...
[13:42 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: Pretty swank penthouse!
[13:42 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: sunken l room
[13:43 SLT] Torley Linden: the local lighting touches (i admit i added some to that scene) were very nice. they add to the stealth and ambience, even tho they don't actually affect gameplay mechanics.
[13:43 SLT] Torley Linden: that penthouse kind of reminded me of the game Hitman.
[13:44 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: So, were you able to seek out your mark w/o being detected?
[13:44 SLT] Jeremy Linden: I never played the inworld version, but I was pretty good at the RL version in college: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassin_(game)
[13:46 SLT] Ghosty Kips: Id like to check out the inworld version just to see how it was handled. ive played the rl game years ago --
[13:46 SLT] Jeremy Linden: http://www.smokinaces.net/secondlife/
[13:47 SLT] Ghosty Kips: hahah ok thanks :)
[13:47 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: some Japanese folks made a game called "Dead Shot" -- sculpties come out and try and get you!
[13:47 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: Jeremy, TY
[13:47 SLT] Torley Linden: do you have a SLURL to that? sounds fun.
[13:47 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): PazDinero Galaxy has pinged you.
[13:47 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: "Dead Shot" The Zombie shooting , Nipponbashi (225, 181, 26)
[13:48 SLT] Torley Linden: thanks! *saves addy for future visitation*
[13:48 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: Yeah -- and there's a pipe organ on the second floor!
[13:48 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: You can play "phantom of the opera"
[13:48 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: Send the LM to teagan linden too! She loves exploring ^^
[13:48 SLT] Torley Linden: oh that sounds awesome. i used to play that on pipe organs as a kid. yeah, it's been heartening seeing more Linden explorations on Flickr as well.
[13:49 SLT] Marianne McCann: Seriously, Soap. Seems like I run into her about once a week while I'm out flitting around the grid
[13:49 SLT] Kate Linden: Yes and to Blue. He collects LMs to explore for Eureka.
[13:49 SLT] Torley Linden: if you haven't seen Blue's Eureka!... http://www.flickr.com/photos/bluelinden/
[13:49 SLT] Kate Linden: haha Torley
[13:49 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: Lol, marianne!
[13:49 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Ooh. I could use some landmarks as well. The Boston Lab goes exploring every Monday morning, and we're always looking for new places to check out
[13:49 SLT] Marianne McCann: I recently saw a keyboard that plays "Scarborough Fair" inworld using physical sphere prims and chutes. Fascinating
[13:49 SLT] Torley Linden: i <3 synchronosity or whatever the cool kids are calling it these days.
[13:49 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: Speaking of Japanese, tho, I haven't had luck with SL accepting input from my IME. All the text displays correctly, but I can't type with my IME.
[13:50 SLT] Torley Linden: hahah Mari was that at TokyoPeninsula?
[13:50 SLT] Marianne McCann: Ya, Torley. They very one
[13:50 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: Torley, did you check out the Micropolis at IBM6's sandbox?
[13:50 SLT] Squirrel Wood gave you Noosphere Prime - Spire Forest.
[13:50 SLT] Zai Lynch: yuss... we are notizing blues breaks when the asset servers are struggling http://www.flickr.com/photos/bluelinden/3151623338/
[13:50 SLT] Kate Linden: Same here Torley, and you sync'd with a link.
[13:50 SLT] Torley Linden: yes Soap :) took some pictures and talked to the creator! that was a rush
[13:50 SLT] Squirrel Wood: Noosphere is definitely a nice place to visit ^^
[13:50 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: One of the best uses of microprims i've seen to date.
[13:51 SLT] Torley Linden: if you haven't been to INSILICO yet... http://www.flickr.com/photos/torley/3176782307/ OMG cyberpunk tavern goodness
[13:51 SLT] Torley Linden: i like it too because people are often hanging around in costume, or roleplaying...
[13:51 SLT] Ghosty Kips: thres 3 words you dont see together often
[13:51 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Yeah, that was a very glowy place.
[13:51 SLT] Torley Linden: i'm sorry, a part of me is unabashedly stuck in 1995.
[13:51 SLT] Torley Linden: it will never escape.
[13:51 SLT] Marianne McCann: The last week I was off at camp, then did the stamp rally. Also did some following of the SL railroads (all of them). There is so so much to see.
[13:51 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: Rodney Linden = Insilicotard, lol. He's always glowy!
[13:52 SLT] Torley Linden: i haven't ridden the trains in awhile, Mari... i like long distance travel in Second Life
[13:52 SLT] Torley Linden: Koinup also has a cool places discovery system now
[13:52 SLT] Squirrel Wood: particle invasion!
[13:52 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: Heya vista :)
[13:52 SLT] Torley Linden: http://www.koinup.com/places/
[13:53 SLT] Marianne McCann: Torley - they had the first big "shake down" run on the mainline last week. Still more to come, but it's looking like another good Mole job.
[13:53 SLT] Vista Questi: Whee! Hi Soap!
[13:53 SLT] Torley Linden: heh heh, "these are the kinds of moles you WANT".
[13:53 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Heheh.
[13:53 SLT] Jeremy Linden: I heard Michael crashed his train a couple times.
[13:53 SLT] Marianne McCann: No doubt!
[13:53 SLT] Kate Linden: brb one moment
[13:53 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: hb kate
[13:53 SLT] Ghosty Kips: afk a sec
[13:54 SLT] Marianne McCann: Ya, he did. Railway Mole and Tofu Linden (I was on this one) also rammed him once
[13:54 SLT] Marianne McCann: Ramming another train at 51 kph was... quite a ride
[13:54 SLT] Torley Linden: hahahah was Tofu a bunny?
[13:54 SLT] Marianne McCann: Yup. Chocolate bunny time f'r Tofu
[13:54 SLT] Jeremy Linden: He's a chocolate bunny!
[13:55 SLT] Torley Linden: i saw those Loco Poco snowmen and was so taken aback
[13:55 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: A Hollow Chocolate Bunny of the Apocolypse?
[13:55 SLT] Torley Linden: btw if any of you want to share winter pics, it's not too late... http://www.flickr.com/groups/winterfaire/ :)
[13:55 SLT] Torley Linden: Chocopalypse
[13:55 SLT] Marianne McCann: Tofu gave me the avvie, too, as it was a freebie
[13:55 SLT] Jeremy Linden threw some mean snowballs during the Lindens vs Residents snowball fight.
[13:55 SLT] Marianne McCann: I may have a coupel from camp yet to add there.
[13:55 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: 'The hollow chocolate bunnies of the apocolypse' is also a book, torley - you should read it - its extremely funny.
[13:55 SLT] PazDinero Galaxy: Great office hour session! Thank you Torley, thank you Jeremy, thank you Kate!
[13:55 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): PazDinero Galaxy has pinged you.
[13:56 SLT] Torley Linden: thanks for being with us, PazDinero! =)
[13:56 SLT] Marianne McCann: heh... I scored some good hits in that
[13:56 SLT] Torley Linden: Soap, is it sci-fi about food... like DOON? hehehe
[13:56 SLT] Torley Linden: i got hit with all manner of snowball-y things
[13:56 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: It's a Science Fantasy about a murder mystery in Toy Town, lol.
[13:56 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Thanks for coming! I think this is the best turnout we've ever seen... and it's the first office hour at a new time!
[13:56 SLT] Dorie Bernstein: heh...so Torley's update on Facebook was late ... figures ;-)
[13:56 SLT] Zai Lynch: was fun =)
[13:56 SLT] Ghosty Kips: yes, a much better hour for it, for me anyway
[13:57 SLT] Squirrel Wood: ^^
[13:57 SLT] Torley Linden: w00t w00t. our next office hour will be here at the same time, next week. :)
[13:57 SLT] Zai Lynch: friday night was the big RL collision before
[13:57 SLT] Marianne McCann: Cool
[13:57 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: No, dorie, twitter had a lag and updated its apps late.
[13:57 SLT] Torley Linden: Dorie, yeah, it was midway through!
[13:57 SLT] Squirrel Wood: Wonderful
[13:57 SLT] Vista Questi: which i forgot to remember. ;) I'll schedule my bike rides for earlier or later in the day from now on. ^_^
[13:57 SLT] Dorie Bernstein: it updated like 5 minutes ago
[13:57 SLT] Kate Linden: back
[13:57 SLT] Torley Linden: i kept tweeting about it... various times.
[13:57 SLT] Dorie Bernstein: ah well
[13:57 SLT] Torley Linden: oh, that explains it then, Soap
[13:57 SLT] Torley Linden: thx
[13:57 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: My RSS on twitter only updated 20 mins into the office hour.
[13:57 SLT] Marianne McCann: The Linden Talley from the snowball fight: http://www.sluniverse.com/pics/pic.aspx?id=332785
[13:57 SLT] Torley Linden: yeah there'll be another!
[13:57 SLT] Jeremy Linden doesn't have enough followers yet. Follow Jeremy_Linden!
[13:57 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Jeremy Linden has pinged you.
[13:57 SLT] Ghosty Kips: :)
[13:57 SLT] Jeremy Linden: ;-D
[13:58 SLT] Torley Linden: http://twitter.com/jeremy_linden
[13:58 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Torley Linden has pinged you.
[13:58 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: llfollowjeremy_linden?
[13:58 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Soap Clawtooth has pinged you.
[13:58 SLT] Ghosty Kips: I just started following you today Jeremy :)
[13:58 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Ghosty Kips has pinged you.
[13:58 SLT] Torley Linden: http://twitter.com/kate_linden
[13:58 SLT] Kate Linden: My office hour starts in three min in Grasmere. Your all welcome to come over. :)
[13:58 SLT] Torley Linden: http://twitter.com/torley
[13:58 SLT] Gregorii Robbiani: Thanks for this interesting hour and thanks again Torley for the help with snapshots
[13:58 SLT] Torley Linden: wheeee
[13:58 SLT] Marianne McCann: Gotcha on my follows, Jeremy. But under my RL avatar's name
[13:58 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Marianne McCann has pinged you.
[13:58 SLT] Soap Clawtooth: ^^
[13:58 SLT] Ghosty Kips: and Kate as well
[13:58 SLT] Torley Linden: you are most welcome Gregorii!
[13:58 SLT] Torley Linden: feel free to ping us on Twitter should you have future curiosities and questions and cool stuff to show us :-)
[13:58 SLT] Kate Linden: http://twitter.com/Kate_Linden
[13:58 SLT] Zai Lynch: jeremy, are you posting the transcript of the office hour?
[13:58 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Zai Lynch has pinged you.
[13:59 SLT] Torley Linden: i can also be reached via the Web tab of my profile or http://torley.com/contactsl
[13:59 SLT] Jeremy Linden: I think so, Zai.
[13:59 SLT] Soap Clawtooth still needs to find out how to get values such as tag text colour changes and XUI edits to save after single session!
[13:59 SLT] Dorie Bernstein: O.O I'm just getting in the groove of Facebook...now hafta add twitter
[13:59 SLT] Marianne McCann: Have fun, everybuggy!
[13:59 SLT] Marianne McCann: Bye Bye!!
[13:59 SLT] Ghosty Kips: bye Mari :)
[13:59 SLT] Zai Lynch: would you mind using http://kuraiko.zeitenwerk.de/wikify.php to wikify the chatlog? i think it's a big boost to increase the readability of it
[13:59 SLT] Jeremy Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:Documentation_Office_Hours
[13:59 SLT] Torley Linden: Dorie, ahhh the joy of social networking. heh heh. well, take it day by day. :-)
[13:59 SLT] Vista Questi: nooooo dont say buggy here! :P
[13:59 SLT] Torley Linden: thanks for archiving Jeremy!
[13:59 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Torley Linden has pinged you.
[13:59 SLT] Dorie Bernstein: Just had one question, though...is there an ETA on getting Windlight settings in estate tools?
[13:59 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Heh. It may be. I'll try it!
[13:59 SLT] Kate Linden: Bye Marianne
[13:59 SLT] Zai Lynch: kewl =) thx!
[13:59 SLT] Torley Linden: t'care each and everyone and bai bai 4 nao

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Doc Team/2009-01-07

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