Open Development User Group/Archive/2011-04-13

13:04	Yuzuru	Hello Oz
	Office Orb	mail_to set to oz@lindenlab.com
		Start transcription to oz@lindenlab.com
		Transcript will be sent to: oz@lindenlab.com
	Oz Linden	hi everyone
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	Hi Oz, AnnMarie, Yuzuru
13:05	Oz Linden	Let's get started ... OPEN issue triage first
		OPEN-64
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-64 OPEN-64 SandboxViolation error installing 0.8.5 autobuild on Mac with 0.6.14 distribute
13:06	Oz Linden	hmmm....
		MacOS 10.5...
		accepted, but since there's a workaround...
13:07		OPEN-63
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-63 OPEN-63 3p-qt: Fails to build on windows
13:08	Oz Linden	looks like it's got a fix... I'll get that reviewed and try it on our farm
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	Is the fix complete?
	Oz Linden	don't know...
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	Looks like it only adds the missing dir
13:09	Oz Linden	anyone want to volunteer to repro it?
13:10		storm-1098
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1098 STORM-1098 Debug setting ShowNetStats has wrong description
	draconis.neurocam	that was just merged
	Oz Linden	yes, it was
		frankly, I don't think this is worth much more time
		anyone who understands it is not going to be confused,
13:11		and no one else will really understand it no matter what you label it
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	by "who understands it", do you mean "who already knows what the setting is supposed to do"?
		Then we can as well have no description.
13:12	Oz Linden	Who understands what network latency, packet loss, and bandwidth really are
	AnnMarie Otoole	Sure understand the symptoms.
13:13	Oz Linden	The symptoms of what?
	AnnMarie Otoole	latency, packet loss and bandwith :)
13:16	Oz Linden	I just think this is an example of Inside Baseball.... worrying about minutia that very very few people know about and even fewer actually understand, and so not spending time on things that affect users
13:17	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	Dunno ... misleading descriptions might lead to even fewer users understanding it.
	draconis.neurocam	its still something useful to point people to that may be having issues, or for people who want data, it should be more well known that it is, but yes the description is fine now
13:18		its not entirely misleading anymore, even though the name is more obvious anyway
	Oz Linden	Look at this list:
		https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&jqlQuery=project+%%3D+STORM+AND+fixVersion+%%3D+open-developer+AND+status+%%3D+Open+ORDER+BY+priority+DESC
13:19		lots of those are things that lots of SL users would appreciate and use every day
13:20	draconis.neurocam	i am not saying they arnt
13:21	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	Some of them are already assigned :-)
	Oz Linden	If there's to be a healty open source program (and you should not take for granted that there will be _any_ open source program), then we need to spend more time on things people notice
13:23	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	Oh, you mean like STORM-1147 ? :-P
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1147 STORM-1147 Other avatar's loose clothing\ flared cuffs look like they are tight\got no flare in v.2.4.0 and higher
	Oz Linden	yes, that's one is a real success story
		I'm not saying it's not happening at all
		it is, and the impact is good
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	I don't think so. Took much too long.
	Oz Linden	it could be even better, though
13:24		it did take too long
13:26		I don't mean to sound too grumpy....
		it's been a tough couple of weeks
	draconis.neurocam	its ok oz
13:27	Oz Linden	So... since we've got some free time on the agenda....
		what are the top 2 features you'd pick from some other TPV to put in the SL viewer? Boroondas first : 2 features
13:28	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	uh, dunno. I don't use TPVs much.
	Oz Linden	draconis?
	draconis.neurocam	extra and improved build features, more support for uploading content
	Oz Linden	that's pretty vague - what upload support?
13:29	draconis.neurocam	the ability to test an animation in world pre upload to see if it works, support for .anim files which allows for creation of deformed avatars, stretched limbs etc
13:30		more support for content creators
		basically
		that already exist elsewhere
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	I guess something like local texture support would fall into the same category?
	draconis.neurocam	yes
	Oz Linden	ok... AnnMarie ... 2 features
13:31	AnnMarie Otoole	I'll work on it. My human has to run to the RL Post office.
	Oz Linden	can't bring himself to tell her there are no fish her
		ok
		Yuzuru: 2 features
13:32	Yuzuru	Flexible function of sculpted prim.
	AnnMarie Otoole	Ooo deleted scripts go to trash!!
	Oz Linden	we've actually got an issue on that AnnMarie.... just saw it yesterday....
	AnnMarie Otoole	:) Cool
13:33	Oz Linden	I've heard conflicting folklore on flex/sculpt
		but that's not a TPV feature....
13:34		I want stuff I can go get :-)
	draconis.neurocam	flexis already are terrible, the limitations on them lead them into a life if little use, the patch has existed on jira for a while though
		the flexi sculpt one
	Yuzuru	I must learn more..
	Oz Linden	oobscrure : 2 tpv features
13:35	oobscure	1) one-click access to sky presets menu
		2) one-click access to draw distance
		1 is in imprudence, 2 in kirstens. and maybe others
	Oz Linden	I rather like the draw distance idea myself....
		by sky presets, you mean the Windlight sky presets?
13:36	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	looks through the Imprudence feature list. Hmm ... "Spell Checking" sounds good.
	draconis.neurocam	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-9203 is the flexible sculpt one just for reference
	Office Orb	VWR-9203 Flexible Sculpted Prims
	Oz Linden	Imprudence has spell checking?
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	Apparently.
	Oz Linden	hmmm.....
13:37		is a terrible speller
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	http://wiki.kokuaviewer.org/wiki/Imprudence:Features#Preferences_.2F_Settings
	Ima Mechanique	sorry I'm late, no IRC warning again :-(
	Oz Linden	Ima... I'm quizzing
13:38		people - name 2 features from TPVs that you'd most like to see in the SL viewer
	draconis.neurocam	chuckles to himself "oz i could give you a never ending list"
13:39	oobscure	back. sorry. Yes Oz, I meant that. the dropdown menu in Advanced Sky editor.
	Oz Linden	don't want a never ending list
		that's not useful
	draconis.neurocam	i know
		it was a side remark
13:40	Oz Linden	we're working on Windlight....
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	Good :-)
	oobscure	yeah, saw a lot of new issues filed by torley
	Ima Mechanique	eeeeek
	Oz Linden	We're rethinking some of the ui... I'd be surprised if they included a one-touch change
	oobscure	tracked in https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1126
	Office Orb	STORM-1126 Windlight Region Settings
13:41	Oz Linden	we're much more interested in making region settings work
	oobscure	another TPV feature .. IIRC, Firestorm has more buttons available in bottom toolbar. I find them useful
	Oz Linden	they display now in our test viewer, and you can sort of edit them, but the ui needs work
		well, they allow the sidebar tabs to be bottom bar buttons
13:42		and make room by turning them into icons
	oobscure	I didn't use it much yet but I think I liked that, better than current viewer
13:44		ah, MediaFilter
		not using it myself yet but i think it should get into SL viewer
13:45	Oz Linden	I'm testing a version of that....
	Ima Mechanique	Oz do you want specific features from specific TPV's or would general be okay?
	Oz Linden	don't know what will happen when I propose it
	oobscure	:s
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	what can happen?
	Oz Linden	I want something specific enough to actually do
		not "fix the ui"
13:46	Ima Mechanique	ahh, well I was going to say a colour scheme I can work with.
	Oz Linden	I don't get to just check in anything I feel like....
		Ah... colors
	Ima Mechanique	but I can make that Firestorms skins if you preefer ;-)
	Oz Linden	That's definitly on my list... configurable colors
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	SNOW-614
	Oz Linden	no, full blown skins will never happen
13:47		they are too big a support problem
	Ima Mechanique	I also love what they've done to the bottom bar and side tray
	Oz Linden	color schemes, though, are possible
	oobscure	I don't know if this is in any TPV, but should be easy : click on time label -> the Events floater opens and shows current events
	Ima Mechanique	those are the biggest steps to making v2 useful/useable for me
	oobscure	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-17022
13:48	Office Orb	VWR-17022 Clicking on the current time in the Viewer should bring up events happening right now.
	oobscure	85 votes
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	Um ... Oz .... your virtual dog might be drowning ... :-/
	Dɐuʇıɐ Goʇɥןʎ	how about return object to last position from inventory. should be simple and a lot of people would appretiate it
	Oz Linden	That sounds like a neat idea, but it's an issue that another team would handle if it was done
	oobscure	oh ok
13:49	Ima Mechanique	hehe how about a fantasy feature. I'd love dual times UTC/P[DS]T
	Oz Linden	For right now, I really want TPV features that exist, not good ideas in general
	Dɐuʇıɐ Goʇɥןʎ	search by creator in inv.
13:50	oobscure	oh right that one
	draconis.neurocam	return to last position is in most tvps
	Oz Linden	explain that one... I don't know what it is
	draconis.neurocam	basically, if someone gets something returned to them, like a giant build or something
		right click in inventory, and it puts it in the same place
13:51		saves headaches
	Kraptacular Kat	that makes sense
		who does that?
		what TPV?
	Oz Linden	I still don't get it
	draconis.neurocam	phoenix, and imprudence
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	http://wiki.kokuaviewer.org/wiki/Imprudence:Restore_to_Last_Position
	Kraptacular Kat	I need to check that out
	Oz Linden	what do I click on and when ... and I'm going to invoke my favorite Clarity Rule: No Pronouns allowed
13:52	Kraptacular Kat	I just got here and I understood it :/
	draconis.neurocam	you right click the object you want replaced to the last in world position when you want to put it back
	Oz Linden	ah...
13:53		see, all this time I thought you were talking about the position of the object in the inventory
	draconis.neurocam	ah sorry
	Oz Linden	you're not following the No Pronoun rule ("it" is a pronoun)
13:54		You'd be amazed at how much the ambiguity of English is reduced by not using pronouns
	draconis.neurocam	the object = it
	Oz Linden	The list of Caveats on that web page is pretty scary
13:55	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	http://xkcd.com/174/
	Oz Linden	I suspect that if we shipped that, we'd get beaten up for shipping a flakey half-baked almost-feature
	oobscure	which had previously been removed for the same reason
13:56		no?
	draconis.neurocam	most tpvs dont have the qa ll does
	oobscure	another TPV feature that seems very useful is Area Object Search - Imprudence > Advanced menu
	Ima Mechanique	AnneMarie, does the shoe-bling help the fishing?
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	Is there a way to fully bake it so we don't have to ship it half baked?
	Kraptacular Kat	snhiney flashy things attract fish
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	I guess the problem is that the region isn't recorded server-side, just the in-region position.
13:57	Oz Linden	well, for example, it sounds to me as though what gets saved is the location within the region
	oobscure	Area Object Search (not a pronoun) looks for objects in local area. by name, description, owner and group.
	Oz Linden	100,15,24 kind of thing
		but not the region
	oobscure	I should have waited. sorry.
	Oz Linden	if I restore an object to a location that's inaccessible, I've lost it
13:58		features that lose inventory are not very popular :-(
	draconis.neurocam	fair enough
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	SL needs an "undo" button.
	Oz Linden	What is Area Object Search
		?
	draconis.neurocam	ctrl z
	Yuzuru	it is good to restore only rotation.
13:59	oobscure	Area Object Search (not a pronoun) looks for objects in local area .. by name, description, owner and group.
	draconis.neurocam	it basically lets you search object names in scene by the client
	Oz Linden	A general Undo is impossible in SL
	oobscure	it has a separate floater
	draconis.neurocam	the feature*
	Oz Linden	the intereactions are far too complex
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	yeah, I know
14:00	Office Orb	Your timer has expired!
	Oz Linden	what's the range?
	oobscure	http://wiki.kokuaviewer.org/wiki/Area_Object_Search
		not sure
	Oz Linden	sounds like it could be handy when shopping.....
14:01	draconis.neurocam	last i looked at the code when object area search was in emerald it was anything in draw/ the client could see
	Kraptacular Kat	yes it would
	Oz Linden	if the store actually gave objects names and descriptoins
	Ima Mechanique	for me it would be handy when building, lose prims all the time
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	Probably the object has to be within view distance, so that the viewer knows about it?
	Kraptacular Kat	also good trying to find a griefer object
	Oz Linden	I've bought more than one "Object"
14:02		Interesting....
		Listen ... this has been great, but I've got to go ....
	Office Orb	End transcription
	oobscure	boroondas : you can teleport to
		thanks Oz
	Yuzuru	Thank you Oz.
	draconis.neurocam	take care oz