User:Which Linden/Office Hours/2010 Jan 21

• [11:01] Youri Ashton: hey which and tech
• [11:01] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Here he is. hey Which.
• [11:01] Which Linden: hi there!
• [11:01] Questar Utu: .. Just got a group invite..
• [11:02] Techwolf Lupindo: hi all through the lag
• [11:02] Saijanai Kuhn: That was from me, to AW Groupies.
• [11:02] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Yeah, as did I. AW group - can accept if you want. :P
• [11:02] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: did.
• [11:02] Saijanai Kuhn: Any members here besides me?
• [11:02] Saijanai Kuhn:  ;-)
• [11:02] Youri Ashton: hey mojito :)
• [11:02] Mojito Sorbet: hey
• [11:02] Youri Ashton: yeah, tech, and me
• [11:02] Saijanai Kuhn: and which
• [11:02] Youri Ashton: tillie as well btw
• [11:02] Youri Ashton: lol
• [11:03] Tillie Ariantho: changes group. ^^
• [11:03] Youri Ashton: lol
• [11:04] Which Linden: So.... any topics we want to talk about? We could continue discussing the "future of sl" like we were the past two weeks
• [11:04] Ardy Lay: Something funky in my last SVN update for Snowglobe. It is crashing on "unexpected textures".
• [11:04] Mojito Sorbet: I think we have beat that one enough
• [11:04] Youri Ashton: future of SL sounds fun to talk about, wasnt here past weeks
• [11:04] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Ardy - I *think* that was being discussed about in #opensl earlier.
• [11:04] Tillie Ariantho: Future of SL sound nice, yes. ^^
• [11:04] Which Linden: Ha ha, two conflicting opinions!
• [11:04] Youri Ashton: to much... euhmm... work
• [11:04] Mojito Sorbet: Im ok with more on that topic
• [11:05] Which Linden: OK, MOAR!
• [11:05] Youri Ashton: my team pretty much left me doing all the work, so i got about 90% to do in a very short time o_0
• [11:05] Which Linden: How about, opening the walled garden?
• [11:05] Tillie Ariantho: For the future of SL, I vote on making more chairs out of living bamboo. :P
• [11:05] Which Linden: O_O
• [11:05] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Oh dear.
• [11:05] lonetorus Habilis: LOLWUT protocol for IM?
• [11:05] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: LOL
• [11:06] Saijanai Kuhn: its a sekret
• [11:06] Tillie Ariantho: Did you already talk about "custom sim surroundings"? :-)
• [11:06] lonetorus Habilis: tilli, sit on which?
• [11:06] Saijanai Kuhn: Inifinity could explain it sorta
• [11:06] Mojito Sorbet: I think solving sclability WITHIN the walled garden may also deal with the problems of linking outside it
• [11:06] Which Linden: I'd always envisioned the agent domain thing solving both at the same time
• [11:06] Saijanai Kuhn: and various opensim types have cracked it. I think Enus has got it working in pyogp
• [11:06] Youri Ashton: you dont sit on a plant, you enjoy their beauty
• [11:07] Youri Ashton: lol
• [11:07] Youri Ashton: hey squirrel, long time no see
• [11:07] Saijanai Kuhn: Hey Squirrel
• [11:07] Mojito Sorbet: I am not sure that AD's will solve how you get 100 avatars in one region
• [11:07] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: waves to Squirrel.
• [11:07] Squirrel Wood: Aloha!
• [11:07] Youri Ashton: IBM already did it
• [11:07] lonetorus Habilis: they ported the sim code for AS400 ?
• [11:07] Youri Ashton: on their own network
• [11:08] Mojito Sorbet: Oh? Using the same hardware LL does?
• [11:08] Youri Ashton: no lag with it either, although... thats their claim
• [11:08] Which Linden: That's cool
• [11:08] Youri Ashton: i was at a meeting end of last year where IBM told about that
• [11:08] Which Linden: Seems reasonable to me -- just count on Moore's law!
• [11:08] Mojito Sorbet: Another kind of scalability is handling more than 70k at once, regardless of density
• [11:08] Tillie Ariantho: Uh, who wants to have software on AS400? That sounds so 'host'. Isnt everyone moving to linux on standard pc architecture nowadays?
• [11:08] Ardy Lay: I would GUESS that IBM threw expensive hardware at it.
• [11:08] Saijanai Kuhn: Mojito the idea is that once you get AD's working, you get services that sims normally provide offloaded to other servers besides the sim
• [11:09] Mojito Sorbet: Tell that to Sun
• [11:09] Youri Ashton: their grafics looked a little improved as well, or atleast... it looked better then SL has
• [11:09] lonetorus Habilis: tilli, not unless you have loads of paralel processes
• [11:09] Tillie Ariantho: We just moved our internet portals from solaris/sun fires to linux/intels :)
• [11:09] Mojito Sorbet: Yes, offloading helps. ANyone actually measured what % of a sims time is spoent doing non-sim things?
• [11:09] Which Linden: Yeah, Mojito, actually when you talk about scalability, most Lindens will think of global scalability
• [11:09] Which Linden: Not avatars-per-region scalability
• [11:10] Tillie Ariantho: lone: we have 1 million customers with 28,000 sessions at the peak time... running on 2 linux machines only. :-)
• [11:10] Mojito Sorbet: Considering the average density of avatars in SL is nearly zero, the whole things is STILL unstable when more than 80K log in
• [11:10] Youri Ashton: think you should talk about that with IBM then Which, seems you really have to find out what they did to improve it :p
• [11:10] lonetorus Habilis: i have been afk 2 months, but i suppose its still ~40 av's per sim before it strats to lag?
• [11:10] Ardy Lay: Too many events are limited by the simulator crying when agent count gets above 35.
• [11:11] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: lonetorus - depends on each avatar's script times.
• [11:11] Tillie Ariantho: lone: we had a fashion show last week with 75 people in the sim. worked pretty well. sure a bit laggy, but I could take photos of almost all. :-)
• [11:11] Mojito Sorbet: I have seen 80 in ja sim, but they were all sitting down and not moving
• [11:11] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: An average of 0.5-1.0 per avatar will cause quite a bit of lag.
• [11:11] Which Linden: I think sim lagginess is still influenced by the other proceses on the hosst
• [11:11] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Which every time I look at the top scripts, it's always the avatars. :(
• [11:11] Youri Ashton: its not just avitars in a sim that cause the problems, dont forget about the things that needs to be rezzed like buildings, clothing, attachements and textures
• [11:11] Mojito Sorbet: Group IMs, texture proxies, etc
• [11:11] Which Linden: so if you've got a simhost with only one region it'll do a lot better
• [11:12] Tillie Ariantho: The 75 people event was on rezzable greenies sim, maybe they did optimize it for best performance. ^^
• [11:12] Squirrel Wood: sim lag.. have you ever tried testing this on sims which have more ram available to them than usual?
• [11:12] Which Linden: Maybe... I don't know
• [11:12] Youri Ashton: it all adds to how much lag you will end up with, specially if you have a slow connection or slow Pc to start out with
• [11:12] Ardy Lay: Which, I seem to be living with 8 full regions on a host.
• [11:12] Techwolf Lupindo: The trick is to seperate scripts from TD. Scripts is the biggest cause of lag. Seperate that out and can 100 plus into a sim
• [11:12] Squirrel Wood: only 8 ? ^^
• [11:12] Mojito Sorbet: Can the sim code take advantage of multiple cores, if they were available, even after the admin stuff gets offloaded? I am referring to the basic physics stuff.
• [11:13] Ardy Lay: I found 8. Surely there are not more.
• [11:13] lonetorus Habilis: i agree with tech
• [11:13] Youri Ashton: to many things of anything is a problem tech
• [11:13] Which Linden: Mojito: probably
• [11:13] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I'd bet there are some quad-core-quad-CPU servers running at LL.
• [11:13] Youri Ashton: not just scripts
• [11:13] Youri Ashton: everything where "too" for stands, is bad
• [11:13] Jonathan Yap: I thought scripts were limited to how much time they could use per frame
• [11:13] Tillie Ariantho: How much memory do those servers have and are they 64bit ones? Our java app servers are 64bit and have 128mb memory, that works pretty well. :)
• [11:14] Youri Ashton: they aint, tech does have a point, lots of people do not realise that scripts add to lag
• [11:14] Ardy Lay: I kinda think I am suffering from host throughput issues. Maybe it's virtual memory delays though. I don't know.
• [11:14] Which Linden: Our servers are 64-bit
• [11:14] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I remember hearing all the systems ran 64-bit Debian?
• [11:14] Tillie Ariantho: 128GB I meant. :P
• [11:14] Youri Ashton: specially in high numbers
• [11:14] Which Linden: But I believe that the sim is 32-bit, for memory reasons
• [11:14] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: That's understandable. 64-bit can use more memory just by switching from 32-bit.
• [11:14] Which Linden: And 2 GB of memory, so that's probably the biggest bottleneck
• [11:15] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Oh ow.
• [11:15] Mojito Sorbet: So the hardware and Linux are 64bit, but any single sim server process is 32 bits?
• [11:15] Youri Ashton: well thats a problem Which, the problem is not just on the user side, but also on server side
• [11:15] Which Linden: I'd like to see you install 10,000 ram sticks!
• [11:15] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I have 2GiB and KDE constantly goes 'BLARGH' because SL eats so much.
• [11:15] Techwolf Lupindo: But switching from 32 to 64 gives a lot more cpu registers
• [11:15] Mojito Sorbet: You dont have to do it all at once!
• [11:15] Jonathan Yap: Good job for some interns, switching ram sticks :)
• [11:15] Youri Ashton: you can not espect to send data and espect it will get over just good with just any material you use. money can not be saved on things like that
• [11:15] Mojito Sorbet: I run in 4GB with Gnome and it seems ok
• [11:16] Techwolf Lupindo: That's what IT students are for. :_)
• [11:16] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: That's my upgrade plan - 4GiB. KDE4 will fly then. :)
• [11:16] Which Linden: Probably we'll just buy new hardware and migrate to it
• [11:16] Mojito Sorbet: Actually, best to replace the memory as part of a general hardware upgrade. When you put in those new multicore processors.
• [11:16] Youri Ashton: for example, a PC is state of the art, latest there is with best internet connection available
• [11:16] Techwolf Lupindo: I've just upgraded my laptop here to 4G and it really improved
• [11:16] Mojito Sorbet: Having to take each box out of the ack, and open it, just to put in RAM, seems a waste of time
• [11:17] Mojito Sorbet: *rack
• [11:17] Youri Ashton: but the server is pretty slow by standard and connection on server side is not high at all
• [11:17] Youri Ashton: then you can espect that the home pc will run on the speed of the server, not the pc
• [11:17] Mojito Sorbet: Surely there are multi-connection gigabit ethernets in the racks...
• [11:17] Techwolf Lupindo: I've has a SL core dump of 4G plus size
• [11:17] Techwolf Lupindo: has=had
• [11:17] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: o_o
• [11:17] Which Linden: Incidentally, we're about to do a minor L$-related change as part of our migration to a different colo
• [11:17] Youri Ashton: since the server can not keep up with the pc, the pc will have to slow down so the server can keep up
• [11:18] lonetorus Habilis: which, not to derail the topic, but has it ever been considered to offer a monthly service of emailing transaction history to ppl ?
• [11:18] Which Linden: So I'll be a bit distracted
• [11:18] Youri Ashton: hi enkidu
• [11:18] Mojito Sorbet: A different colo where?
• [11:18] Mojito Sorbet: Is this part of the new Europe plan?
• [11:18] Techwolf Lupindo: lone, libiliy. Its sent in the clear
• [11:18] Enkidu Linden: hey everyone
• [11:18] Youri Ashton: europe plan will be most likely in euro's
• [11:18] Youri Ashton: instead of dollars for starters
• [11:18] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: waves to Enkidu.
• [11:19] Dahlia Trimble: hi :)
• [11:19] lonetorus Habilis: and supposedly ssl is trivial to open these days ;)
• [11:19] Which Linden: Ionetorus: not sure about that specifically, but lots of enhncements for transactions have been JIRA'd and put on roadmaps
• [11:19] Which Linden: The new colo's in dallas
• [11:19] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Sooo I'll have to use euros instead of s?
• [11:19] Mojito Sorbet: Replacing Austin?
• [11:19] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: $s*
• [11:19] Which Linden: We're cutting over L$ service now....shouldn't be a service interruption
• [11:19] Youri Ashton: think english pounds will not do
• [11:19] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Heh
• [11:19] Youri Ashton: the euro is the most used money in europe, not the UK pound
• [11:20] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I know.
• [11:20] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I did correct my mistake. :)
• [11:20] Youri Ashton:  :)
• [11:20] Mojito Sorbet: I hope there are ways to block currency speculators from using Lindex as a medium
• [11:20] Which Linden: OK waiting for dns to propagate
• [11:20] Youri Ashton: think both euro's as dollars will work
• [11:20] Youri Ashton: cant espect people outside Europe work with euro's
• [11:20] Which Linden: not sure we ever had an Austin colo
• [11:21] Which Linden: replacing SFO
• [11:22] Disconnected from: in-world Voice Chat
• [11:28] Which Linden: well, that was ironic
• [11:28] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Which Linden broke the sim? :P
• [11:28] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Haha
• [11:28] Mojito Sorbet: We talk about sclability, and this happens
• [11:28] Which Linden: near as I can tell, the hardware we were running on failed
• [11:28] JB Hancroft: the sims are sentient... they "hear" us :)
• [11:28] Which Linden: can't ping that host anymore (sim4768)
• [11:28] Mojito Sorbet: Need those AS400, s then
• [11:28] JB Hancroft: ugh
• [11:29] Mojito Sorbet: I am not sure when it dies
• [11:29] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Took me ages to log back in.
• [11:29] JB Hancroft: well, I thought it was me
• [11:29] Mojito Sorbet: Oh, I had thought there was a texas colo before
• [11:29] Questar Utu: Me too.
• [11:29] Mojito Sorbet: For some reason I had thought it was Austin
• [11:29] Which Linden: Mojito: it was in Dallas; we're just consolidating
• [11:29] Mojito Sorbet: Ohl, ok
• [11:29] Which Linden: I think maybe we considered Austing?
• [11:29] Which Linden: there's certainly a lot there
• [11:29] Techwolf Lupindo: how many data centers are there now?
• [11:30] Which Linden: I know Oracle has a huge datacenter there
• [11:30] Which Linden: Linden has I think 3
• [11:30] JB Hancroft: A lot north of Austin... Plano?
• [11:30] Tillie Ariantho: About SFO... is that just too expensive or do you fear that SF at some time vanishes in a big earthquake?
• [11:30] Mojito Sorbet: Yes, I saw a white paper on Oracles "green" modifications to that data center. Quite strange looking,
• [11:30] Youri Ashton: not sure what happened back there
• [11:30] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Any pans for datacenters in Europe?
• [11:30] Youri Ashton: hey open
• [11:30] Opensource Obscure: what benefits will get european users when the Amsterdam datacenter will start its operations?
• [11:30] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: plans*
• [11:30] Opensource Obscure: hey everybody btw
• [11:30] Mojito Sorbet: Didnt M or T mention a Europe Data center?
• [11:31] Youri Ashton: i do sah
• [11:31] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Ah, I didn't see that part then.
• [11:31] Youri Ashton: less likely to crash :p
• [11:31] Opensource Obscure: He did Mojito - Amsterdam
• [11:31] Mojito Sorbet: How would the regions to be hosted there be chosen?
• [11:31] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: So I can expect sub-100 pings eventually. :P
• [11:31] Youri Ashton: which, know what happened back there already?
• [11:31] Opensource Obscure: i'm not sure it will be about region servers
• [11:31] Saijanai Kuhn: Its all because I invited Enkidu to Groupies
• [11:31] Opensource Obscure: database servers, apparently
• [11:32] Which Linden: I think there are plans for a Euro datacenter, not sure what city
• [11:32] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Not London I hope.
• [11:32] Mojito Sorbet: Oh, just moving Assets and stuff closer would help
• [11:32] Which Linden: I have no idea how that's going to work, honestly
• [11:32] Youri Ashton: amsterdam most likely, is main office for europe
• [11:32] Youri Ashton: amsterdam is most likely to be used since its cheaper then the rest as well
• [11:32] Mojito Sorbet: Especially once the region sims get out of the way for asset loading
• [11:32] Which Linden: I'd guess that we'd do something similar to what amazon does; allow people to choose which colo they want their stuff in
• [11:32] Opensource Obscure: catherine told it will be amsterdam here
• [11:33] Youri Ashton: quality/price is best here, lets put it that way :p
• [11:33] Mojito Sorbet: I think Amsterdam has good connectivity too
• [11:33] Opensource Obscure: which, so you think european datacenter will hold both regions and databases
• [11:33] Youri Ashton: :p
• [11:33] JB Hancroft: A lot of banking there... Amstelveen area
• [11:33] Youri Ashton: think that Philip and M finally starting to listen to me about that tip :p
• [11:34] Youri Ashton: i told em to get their servers over her
• [11:34] Mojito Sorbet: On to Singapore!
• [11:34] Youri Ashton: less rules as well that spoil SL
• [11:34] JB Hancroft: exactly, Mojito... Bejing
• [11:34] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Would be nice if say, Europeans had their assets in a European datacenter then the US having theirs in the US - or generally just having everyone's as close to them as possible.
• [11:34] Mojito Sorbet: Or maybe Hong Kong. SOme big colo buildings there. Lots of rack space available
• [11:35] Youri Ashton: distance on the internet does not really matter sah
• [11:35] Techwolf Lupindo: amsterdam will allow LL more freedom content wise.
• [11:35] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: It does - I only pull 800k down.
• [11:35] Youri Ashton: distance on internet isnt really counting
• [11:35] Mojito Sorbet: But administrative boundaries matter
• [11:35] Mojito Sorbet: European privacy laws might get interesting
• [11:35] Youri Ashton: doesnt matter if you download a file from some place in the US or at a local station
• [11:35] JB Hancroft: Which - do we have the ability to distribute the assets around like that, and perhaps tag which ones should be "primary" in a specific datacenter?
• [11:36] Mojito Sorbet: Unless it is a crypto algorithm...
• [11:36] Jonathan Yap: You'd want a "primary" asset to be "close" to the majority of people accessing it (e.g. sim visitors)
• [11:36] Youri Ashton: the first your connection does is look for the regional hud, which broadcasts it to the national hubs, from there you go to the country you need to go and same way down
• [11:36] Mojito Sorbet: Not sure you could determine that in advance...
• [11:37] Youri Ashton: so doesnt matter what is placed where in that
• [11:37] Mojito Sorbet: A "smart" distributed data store could move things around depending on what it "learns" about access patterns
• [11:37] Which Linden: ok sorry I was ignoring you all; checking on latency
• [11:37] Mojito Sorbet: IN any case, since the asset store is write-once, you just replicate the whole works
• [11:37] Youri Ashton: problem now is just that the LL servers seem to have a bug that can not be taken out without takign the whole grid down for long period of time
• [11:37] Tillie Ariantho: European laws totally suck, google and flickr censor me and I have no way to proof that I am over 18 and can decide myself what I want to see and what not.
• [11:37] JB Hancroft: is that a self-referential joke ?
• [11:38] Which Linden: OO: yeah, I think it'll have regions, not sure about databases
• [11:38] Mojito Sorbet: Yeah, another big outage coming first week of February I see
• [11:38] Youri Ashton: wb open
• [11:38] Which Linden: The idae of making a whole mini-SL is good, but it's tricky because we don't have the architectural support for it
• [11:38] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Tillie - I've never had to prove I'm over 18 except to LL.
• [11:38] Youri Ashton: wasnt talking about that which :p
• [11:38] Youri Ashton: was talking about internet in general :p
• [11:39] Which Linden: mojito: that outage is for moving more servers to dallas, IIRC
• [11:39] Mojito Sorbet: If you move, say 20% of Regions to Amsterdam, it will improve European response time marginally, and not hurt anyone else much, except Asians.
• [11:40] Which Linden: It makes the most sense to move regions that Europeans ar on, not just random regions
• [11:40] Youri Ashton: from your home pc -> sub station (local). -> national station -> to country it needs to travel -> sub station -> server
• [11:40] Youri Ashton: same way back
• [11:40] Mojito Sorbet: But if you moved clearly Europe-themed places, like the Dubln pub (4 sims) and Paris and Moscow, that probably get a lot of local vitits.
• [11:40] Youri Ashton: or for proxies, it can take a longer route
• [11:40] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I think people should get the option to switch, so if most of their visitors are European, they can switch it to there and such.
• [11:40] Mojito Sorbet: There is a Tyrolean sim that seems pretty much filled with German-speakers.
• [11:40] Which Linden: And switching contiguous blocks of mainland would make sense
• [11:40] Tillie Ariantho: Sahkolihaa: Google just doesnt allow me anywhere to tell them... and flickr neither. I had to create a fresh account at yahoo.co.uk with England/London as my country/city to get rid of the flickr filters.
• [11:41] JB Hancroft: Follow the sun cpu cycle availability? :)
• [11:41] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Ah, I'm in the UK so that explains why I don't get filtered. :/
• [11:41] Mojito Sorbet: My home sim is decidedly japanese in content, but only a fraction of the regulars are Japanese or Australian.
• [11:41] Youri Ashton: UK has a different filter then the US has
• [11:41] Mojito Sorbet: Most are USA or Europe
• [11:41] Youri Ashton: each country has their own rules on that subject
• [11:42] Youri Ashton: the netherlands is pretty open on the subject, only block dangerous things. and not just anythign that could be offending to someone
• [11:42] Mojito Sorbet: Speaking of locality, here is a question...
• [11:42] Tillie Ariantho: German law forces companies to filter content if your are not 18+. But instead of checking age they just filter for EVERYONE. That's censorship. I should complain in Den Haag or whereever I have to ... :-/
• [11:42] Youri Ashton: think that might be a good reason for LL to place their servers here
• [11:42] Mojito Sorbet: Does the list of last-name choices you are presented with have something to do with where you connect from?
• [11:42] JB Hancroft: I worked for a company that had an worldwide internal network, and it was interesting to see the spikes in local vs. remote network traffic, as office hours opened, lunchtimes happened, etc. 24/7... we moved some processing to "closed for the night offices" to help distribute the load
• [11:43] Youri Ashton: just movet o the netherlands tillie :p
• [11:43] Youri Ashton: less dumb rules :p
• [11:43] JB Hancroft: And Youri, if we do... you'll complain about the lag 'cuz of all the foreigners ;)
• [11:43] Tillie Ariantho: haha
• [11:43] brash has: no penis uppercut: activated.
• [11:43] JB Hancroft: ouch
• [11:43] Opensource Obscure: yay.
• [11:44] Youri Ashton: the gouvernment tries to go to US style gouvernment tho, so that may cause serious problems if that continues
• [11:44] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: o.o
• [11:44] Jonathan Yap: Different regapi portals give different selections of last names: [1]
• [11:44] Youri Ashton: JB, in the netherlands we have far better internet capabilities then the US ever had :p
• [11:44] Mojito Sorbet: Ah, that explains it. I was trying to set up an Alt with a Japanese name, but I could not get any offered.
• [11:44] Youri Ashton: we are infact the best of the world at this time :p
• [11:44] Which Linden: huh that's interesting, never knew that about the names
• [11:45] JB Hancroft: Of course you are, Youri *grins*
• [11:45] Mojito Sorbet: Estonia has better internet than much of the US.
• [11:45] Jonathan Yap: Mojito, you can see all possible last names from that home page
• [11:45] Which Linden: slnamewatch is a great concept for a site
• [11:45] JB Hancroft: because of Skype :)
• [11:45] Opensource Obscure: also, you won't manage to register any name that includes ASS. like mASSimo or cASSandra, that are both 100% legit
• [11:45] Youri Ashton: there is a site that keeps track of ALL SL names
• [11:45] Youri Ashton: resident names, mole, linden, anything
• [11:46] JB Hancroft: Open - I wish they would expand the name filter a bit... some really lame and obvious griefer names get through :(
• [11:46] Youri Ashton: hmm... lemme see if i have a link
• [11:46] Mojito Sorbet: Oh I see, if I use a RegAPI site, I would get different offerings.
• [11:46] Jonathan Yap: yes Mojito. I think one site only offers GossipGirl
• [11:46] Which Linden: is amazed at how many regapi sites there are
• [11:46] Youri Ashton: [2]
• [11:46] Opensource Obscure: i agree but i guess it's not a simple task to solve with komputerrz
• [11:46] Which Linden: gossipgirl (1 names) <-- lol
• [11:47] JB Hancroft: looks a lot like the one that Jonathan posted
• [11:47] JB Hancroft: must be the Dutch "lag" ;)
• [11:47] Jonathan Yap: I posted the link to the regapis, not the home page
• [11:48] Tillie Ariantho: Hm, Loomslough is the least used name, why that? :P haha
• [11:48] Youri Ashton: i rather have the feeling that LL will keep the servers that are operational now, in the US and just buy new ones here
• [11:48] Mojito Sorbet: And no use of non-ASCII letters. Boo..
• [11:49] Jonathan Yap: Loomslough is a new name, for one thing
• [11:49] Youri Ashton: then install it right here and make sure its running before going to the new server
• [11:49] Youri Ashton: most likely the bugs will be dead then as well
• [11:49] Tillie Ariantho: and Huillermeyer ... I think that is misspelled and should be Hillermeyer. ^^
• [11:50] Which Linden: So, um, back to the topic of opening the walled garden
• [11:50] JB Hancroft: listens...
• [11:50] Mojito Sorbet: I saw they were going to allow non-ASDCII letters in internet node names..
• [11:50] Which Linden: http in / out hasn't done as much to open up SL as I thought it would have
• [11:50] Which Linden: what's needed to improve that situation?
• [11:51] Which Linden: wants to see sims export an xml catalog of objects so they can be crawled by the googlebot
• [11:51] Mojito Sorbet: Well, maybe running a web server inside a prim within SL is kinda, um, performance limited
• [11:51] Youri Ashton: what are you trying to get done then which?
• [11:51] Which Linden: wahtever man, my fingernails run web servers
• [11:51] Saijanai Kuhn: not sure, WHich. But, the html on a prim is almost never used, period
• [11:51] Youri Ashton: hey aimee :p
• [11:51] Tillie Ariantho: I think that the change of the http address on reboot is pretty bad. YOu cant use it as a server at all.
• [11:51] Saijanai Kuhn: wondering if that is related in some way
• [11:51] Youri Ashton: no longer a butter fly i see :p
• [11:51] Which Linden: hi aimee!
• [11:52] Mojito Sorbet: One less bug to deal with..
• [11:52] Aimee Linden: heh
• [11:52] Tillie Ariantho: You STILL need a fixed server elsewhere to find out how your http server is named now ...
• [11:52] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Hey Aimee and Poppy.
• [11:52] Jonathan Yap: How many people have access to servers?
• [11:52] Aimee Linden: hi :)
• [11:52] Youri Ashton: hey poppy
• [11:52] Enkidu Linden: hey guys
• [11:52] Which Linden: yeah, totally, tillie, but it's hard to imagine a solution that's not itself a scalability problem
• [11:52] Mojito Sorbet: Maybe have your http-prim has to register itself with dyndns.org...
• [11:52] Tillie Ariantho: the http server in a prim would be really nice if the address wouldnt change.
• [11:52] Which Linden: dudes it's Linden time
• [11:52] Which Linden: resists mc hammer joke
• [11:52] Tillie Ariantho: Which: so no one thought about it when implementing... its not really useful at least for ME as it is now.
• [11:53] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: :P
• [11:53] Tillie Ariantho: I just dont know what to use a server for thats not reachable after a sim reboot.
• [11:53] Which Linden: tillie: kelly definitely thought about that problem a lot, but concluded that scalability had to come first
• [11:54] Which Linden: maybe he planned for a global registry sometime, I don't know
• [11:54] Tillie Ariantho: Thats like dyndns in web... not pretty much usable for real stuff.
• [11:54] Which Linden: there's already third-party object registries
• [11:54] Which Linden: they are pretty rad
• [11:55] Tillie Ariantho: I dont want to rely on stuff that is outside my reach... you never know if they dont vanish at some time.
• [11:55] Youri Ashton: anyways, thank you Which for the meeting, but I really have to poof to next meeting. very important one for my team coming up
• [11:55] JB Hancroft: The comment I'd heard was ... "go build one, there's an opportunity!"
• [11:56] Which Linden: ok youri, take care
• [11:56] JB Hancroft: tc Youri
• [11:56] Which Linden: Yeah; we're weirdly schizophrenic about third-parties providing solution
• [11:56] Youri Ashton: bye bye everyone!
• [11:56] Youri Ashton: bye aimee :p
• [11:56] Which Linden: one the one hand, yeah, creating business opportunities for others is what we do
• [11:56] Which Linden: On the other, it's kind of a bad user experience
• [11:56] Aimee Linden: bye :)
• [11:56] Tillie Ariantho: If I have to build all stuff my self, why use the http in thingy then, I could just do ALL my stuff outside SL and request it from a prim. Much more control...
• [11:57] Which Linden: The real world has a bad user experience!
• [11:57] Mojito Sorbet: I agree with Tillie.
• [11:57] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: What's this 'real world' you speak of? ;)
• [11:57] Poppy Linden: i agree with Which.
• [11:57] Mojito Sorbet: Just have the inworld object feed data to a "real" web service elsewhere
• [11:57] Which Linden: What do you mean "all your stuff"?
• [11:57] Which Linden: I mean, the point of http-in isn't that the prim does anything substantial
• [11:57] Tillie Ariantho: I mean: why use an inworld server if I STILL need an external webserver anyway?
• [11:58] Tillie Ariantho: Just moving ALL of my code to outside SL gives me WAY more possibilities ...
• [11:58] Mojito Sorbet: Just to report local going-on in its vicinity. Which, come to think of it, is a TOS violation
• [11:58] Tillie Ariantho: python, perl, php, java, whatever I want to use...
• [11:58] Tillie Ariantho: and debuggers to improve my code ...
• [11:58] Mystical Demina: i see it kind of like an avatar but access to all the prims and everything in the sim
• [11:58] Mystical Demina: from a web service
• [11:59] Poppy Linden: Tillie, i think that's part of the point.
• [11:59] Tillie Ariantho: so give me an example of that an inworld webserver is really good for...
• [11:59] Which Linden: tillie: well Vendors are one major use case
• [11:59] Tillie Ariantho: that -> what
• [11:59] Poppy Linden: But you need bidirectional communications for that
• [11:59] Tillie Ariantho: Vendors?
• [11:59] Poppy Linden: that -> using other languages, paradigms, etc
• [11:59] Tillie Ariantho: The vendors I know dont need any http server functionality.
• [12:00] Poppy Linden: so long as i'm following you correctly, and you're talking about HTTP in and out
• [12:00] Tillie Ariantho: yes
• [12:00] Tillie Ariantho: with changing addresses thats not really useful.
• [12:00] Poppy Linden: Tillie, but why would you care, if the object has HTTP out and can report its new address?
• [12:00] Which Linden: keep in mind that http-in replaces email-to-object and xmlrpc
• [12:01] Tillie Ariantho: I would like to set up a chatserver or something or a central registry etc pp, but when you do a rolling restart those wont be reachable anymore, so what ...
• [12:01] Tillie Ariantho: email-to-object always works after reboot, the http thingy does not.
• [12:01] JB Hancroft: the vendors we're using for the Relay For Life this year are using http-in
• [12:01] Which Linden: It does if you set up the hooks properly
• [12:01] Tillie Ariantho: So?
• [12:02] Tillie Ariantho: Then maybe I missed a part.
• [12:02] Which Linden: So... so!
• [12:02] Which Linden:  :-)
• [12:02] Which Linden: I guess, I shouldn't be debating with you about this
• [12:02] Poppy Linden: I think i walked into a curious discussion.
• [12:02] Which Linden: you're right; usability problems are keeping it from being used for insteresting shit
• [12:02] Which Linden: so that's exactly what I wanted to know
• [12:02] JB Hancroft: nods
• [12:03] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: First time I've seen a Linden swear. xP
• [12:03] Tillie Ariantho: Which: maybe a nice FAQ or example somewhere... and a blog post about it... ^^
• [12:03] Which Linden: oh, uh, these are mature office hours
• [12:03] Poppy Linden: I guess I don't follow why you'd want a prim to be the center of your computation instead of an external server
• [12:03] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Haha.
• [12:03] Poppy Linden: definitely not the first time i've seen a linden swear ;)
• [12:04] Poppy Linden: Sahkolihaa, you clearly don't follow our twitter accounts ;)
• [12:04] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Nope. :P
• [12:04] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: rarely uses twitter.
• [12:04] Tillie Ariantho: Twitter sucks, I use Plurk. :P
• [12:05] Which Linden: I should probably wrap this up, it's cutting into important meeting time
• [12:05] Tillie Ariantho: looking for the http-in wiki page
• [12:05] Mystical Demina: i setup a twitter service using OAuth if anyone wants to post to their twitter account from SL
• [12:05] Which Linden: And we know how important meetings are
• [12:05] Ardy Lay: Twitter is usually overloaded when I have reason to look there. I get a picture of birds lifting a whale.
• [12:05] Tillie Ariantho: haha
• [12:05] Tillie Ariantho: Must be a sign!
• [12:05] JB Hancroft: I thought this was an important meeting... (reminds himself to read the memo more slowly, next time)
• [12:06] Opensource Obscure: i use a virtual world where interesting meetings are often overloaded.
• [12:06] Which Linden: Make sure you finish the TPS report before teleporting out!
• [12:06] Tillie Ariantho: TPS report?
• [12:06] Opensource Obscure: bye everybody!
• [12:06] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: See you OO.
• [12:06] Which Linden: Thanks for a great ofice hour, sorry I was so distracted
• [12:06] Poppy Linden: bye opensource!
• [12:06] JB Hancroft: ugh... another TPS report.
• [12:06] Opensource Obscure: bye poppy ^^
• [12:07] JB Hancroft: Would you like a bass or perch with that?
• [12:07] Which Linden: Will see you next week! I think -- I may have to cancel
• [12:07] Poppy Linden: sorry i showed up late :P
• [12:07] JB Hancroft: tc Which
• [12:07] Which Linden: I leave a signpost up here if I have to cancel
• [12:07] JB Hancroft: have a great weekend
• [12:07] Which Linden: you too!