User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-05

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Topic & Summary

User Experience Interest Group Discussion for February 5, 2009.

Topic: Walk Animations & Animation Overrides. Malbers Linden attended.

We discussed the default walk animations (affectionately known as the "duckwalk"), and asked if there were any plans to replace them with better ones. Jesse Linden had posted on the Linden blog in July 2008 about plans to replace them, but there had been no news since then. Malbers said that he was sure Jesse was not working on avatar-related issues anymore, but that there might be some work done on it as part of the New User Experience efforts.

After some more checking, Malbers found out that there had been some work on replacing the animations, but that it hadn't been released, and there was no note about why not. Morgaine asked if Malbers could follow up on that, and Malbers agreed.

We also discussed the possibility of having an animation override built in to the viewer, instead of relying on scripted attachments. There was consensus from the Residents that this would be a very good thing, but Malbers was silent on the issue.

One new idea that came up was that of avatar "attitudes" or moods, which could be used by an AO to switch animation sets. E.g. the user could indicate that she was in a happy mood, and the AO would switch to an upbeat animation set to reflect that.

Links

Transcript

[15:11] Jacek Antonelli: Alright, well. It's 10 after, so I guess we should start
[15:11] Charlette Proto: nice and cozy and no need for AO or any other animations - you can still float
[15:11] Jacek Antonelli: McCabe dug up a nice link from a while back -- http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/07/11/attention-second-life-animators-help-kill-the-duckwalk/
[15:11] Charlette Proto: so can the chicken walk be made gender sensative
[15:11] Zapper Spizel: Sorry guys
[15:11] Jacek Antonelli: Hi Zapper
[15:12] Charlette Proto: boys are chicken, girls ducks I suppose
[15:12] Jacek Antonelli: The male walk isn't as bad. Pretty stiff looking, but at least it's not embarrassing
[15:13] Charlette Proto: agree, girls look like you could throw rocks at them
[15:13] Morgaine Dinova: That's an interesting link. Nothing happen since last July?
[15:13] McCabe Maxsted: haha
[15:14] Jacek Antonelli: I haven't heard any news of it. Any idea, Malbers?
[15:14] McCabe Maxsted: "I'm a virtual receptacle. I store stuffz."
[15:14] Charlette Proto: did anyone donate and animations or are the freebies CopyBoted
[15:14] McCabe Maxsted: bucket linden's profile rocks
[15:14] Malbers Linden: I'm sure that Jesse Linden isn't working on avatar-related stuff anymore.
[15:14] Malbers Linden: The most related thing happening is the New User Experience work
[15:14] Malbers Linden: that might incorporate "walk" issues
[15:15] Charlette Proto: ah you mean the people who raised the issue may be gone
[15:15] Malbers Linden: I'm not sure I can either confirm or deny that statement
[15:15] McCabe Maxsted: is there anything on the internal issue tracker about it?
[15:15] Charlette Proto: perhaps an AO HUD should be developed as a model for future HUD API we have discussed in the past
[15:16] Morgaine Dinova: Well this is clearly a HUGE issue for residents --- is it on the LL radar at all. Is was in July, but now?
[15:16] McCabe Maxsted wonders if it wasn't going to be part of the avatar redesign project
[15:17] Malbers Linden: There are some issues for "duckwalk"
[15:17] Morgaine Dinova: AOs don't really make up for it, because it can take many seconds for the AO walk to kick in, and meanwhile one is duckwalking
[15:17] Malbers Linden: but I'm not sure how actively they are being worked on
[15:17] Charlette Proto: very true one of the first thing I get asked in korea is 'why do I walk so bad when you look so sexy'
[15:17] McCabe Maxsted: ahoy star :)
[15:17] Jacek Antonelli: Hey Star! :)
[15:17] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Star!
[15:18] Malbers Linden: Hey StarSong
[15:18] Charlette Proto: the animation files need to load and that takes time but if everyone had decent ones to strt we would all look better at thos times
[15:18] StarSong Bright: hihi, sorry i am late
[15:18] StarSong Bright: still blind
[15:18] Charlette Proto: hi star, a siesta I suppose
[15:18] McCabe Maxsted imagines there really isn't a Polishing Linden for taking care of the small-but-important stuff like this
[15:18] StarSong Bright: lol its midnight for me
[15:19] Charlette Proto: hehe McCabe
[15:19] Morgaine Dinova: Malbers, is there some issue, beyond simply replacing the old anim files by new ones?
[15:19] Malbers Linden: yeah, I wish we could have a horde of Polishing Lindens for all these things
[15:19] StarSong Bright: so we are talking that stick up your butt defauilt walk today?
[15:19] Charlette Proto: poor thing Star, 10 am and I haven't been to bed
[15:19] McCabe Maxsted: yeah
[15:20] McCabe Maxsted: and I think built in AOs were on the agenda? Or was that just me imagining
[15:20] StarSong Bright: well thats certainly a burning question for me, seems like such a "duh" really
[15:20] Jacek Antonelli: Yep, that's one of the topics for today
[15:20] Charlette Proto: replacing the default walk is one thing, but the sit etc. overrides are a mess on so many AOs, especially on prims making the floor
[15:21] StarSong Bright: so, malbers, is there any reason this hasnt been done yet? has it been consdiered in house?
[15:21] Malbers Linden: Oh, it looks like something has been done in terms of making a new walk.
[15:21] Jacek Antonelli: Oh?
[15:21] Malbers Linden: but it hasn't been pushed into a release
[15:21] Charlette Proto: we really need to do something about the legs getting burried up to the knee
[15:21] Malbers Linden: no real note on why
[15:21] Morgaine Dinova: Malbers: how about this for an action point? Find out if anyone got back to you with replacement default anims, and if not, reissue the blog request?
[15:21] Malbers Linden: I can do that.
[15:21] Jacek Antonelli: \o/
[15:22] McCabe Maxsted: woo!
[15:22] Malbers Linden: we're posting the transcripts of this meeting, right?
[15:22] Jacek Antonelli: Yep ;D
[15:22] Malbers Linden is looking for something to point at
[15:22] Malbers Linden: awesome
[15:22] Charlette Proto: that is the AO needs to be able to sense the floor surface and use a different (sit anywhere) instead of the prim edge sit position
[15:22] Jacek Antonelli: Today's will be at https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User_Experience_Interest_Group/Transcripts/2009-02-05
[15:22] McCabe Maxsted thinks malbers deserves a raise
[15:22] Malbers Linden: yeah! so do I!
[15:23] Jacek Antonelli: hehehe
[15:23] Morgaine Dinova: Would be great. Or if there is some internal work on it instead, then at least make it known that there is, so that we can keep pestering you. :P (Poor Lindens ;-)
[15:23] Malbers Linden: I do get free peanut M&Ms
[15:23] Morgaine Dinova: Woohoo! :-)
[15:23] Jacek Antonelli files JIRA MISC-2602: Give Malbers lots of money and squid pellets plz
[15:23] Morgaine Dinova: lol
[15:23] Malbers Linden: is scared to look
[15:23] Jacek Antonelli: hehehe
[15:23] Charlette Proto: wouldn't plancton be more to your taste
[15:23] McCabe Maxsted is curious, per star's question, if there's been any inhouse work on a clientside ao, or even discussion
[15:24] Malbers Linden: not that I know of
[15:24] Charlette Proto: what do you think of floor surface detection for sits
[15:24] Morgaine Dinova: Jellyfish might eat only plankton, but they'd definitely like to see squid in pellet form, just to reduce the squid population :-)
[15:24] Charlette Proto: that looks even worse than the chicken walk
[15:24] McCabe Maxsted: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-386 is the relevant JIRA btw, but the feature request is as old as, well, the first AO
[15:25] McCabe Maxsted has seen pre-feature voting tool stuff mentioning it
[15:25] Malbers Linden: for "floor detection", there is a general issue with not having enough meta data about Objects in world
[15:25] Malbers Linden: it's be nice to know a number of different things to decrese rendering time and provide better interactions
[15:25] Jacek Antonelli: Yeah
[15:26] StarSong Bright: ooh i am so voting for that jira
[15:26] Charlette Proto: I know, but for sits it is very important so it should be noted in that regard
[15:27] Morgaine Dinova: That's a great Jira. The override system is inappropriate for basic walks --- direct replacement would be terrific, even if it's manual replacement by downloading a different animation to the client.
[15:27] Charlette Proto: I looked up info on a prim furry avie the other day and he was all 'objects' with no creator etc
[15:28] Charlette Proto: couldn't the viewer have an inbuilt AO that you stuff with new anims as needed
[15:28] StarSong Bright: i had an idea about that malbers.. I was thinking that the same way we have gestures (which i hate btw hehe) we could have "attitude" where you could simply do this replacement of the basic walk. and have X number of stands that could be applied/switched randomly
[15:28] StarSong Bright: thats aboug 90% of what people use AOs for. most people i know dont even bother with the sits since htey are such a pita
[15:29] Charlette Proto: I love the sits with attitude myself and at times use the 'next sit' button as well
[15:29] StarSong Bright: hmm /me amends there is also the other basics of which just one would probalby be enough, fly, hover, swim, etc.. just NOT sit
[15:30] Malbers Linden: Having more ways to express the overall emotions for yourself is an interesting idea
[15:30] Morgaine Dinova: Well if you want better sits, then get onboard the "hierarchical objects" bandwagon --- it's getting a lot of support, from Lindens included. (And even Philip and Cory said it was needed, way back)
[15:30] Charlette Proto: besides most AOs use one of the ZHAOs so having it in a viewer would not be huge difference
[15:30] StarSong Bright: all my favorite sits are too dependant on teh furntirue you are on, i would jsut as soon sit on a properly sitted prim
[15:30] McCabe Maxsted: /thinks that should be especiallky possible in 1.25, with the ability to run 30 anims at once; could have multiple variations of animations running in a randomized loop
[15:30] Charlette Proto: back to the metadata Star
[15:31] StarSong Bright nods to mccabe
[15:31] Charlette Proto: 30 anims per avie sounds like a lot of lag for korea
[15:31] StarSong Bright: yes charlette?
[15:31] Malbers Linden: there are so many kinds of optimizations we could try given more metadata on Objects
[15:31] Malbers Linden: just hard to know how to do it without breaking everything that already exists
[15:32] McCabe Maxsted suspects he now knows what malbers has been up to this past mont
[15:32] Charlette Proto: the floor (legs not sinking) is probably the most important and same for may furnies
[15:32] Malbers Linden: I know there have been small attempts but there have been so many problems
[15:32] Morgaine Dinova: You'll have the metadata once objects can be hierarchical --- you'll have multiple sit points for starters, quite independent of the object construction.
[15:32] McCabe Maxsted: what ends up breaking?
[15:32] StarSong Bright: i am al for going for the low hanging fruit.. i dont think that having sits, more than the default sit, in this disucssion is helpful. there are too many other issues involved that take major major infrastructure changes... but.. thats me
[15:33] StarSong Bright: the other anims are not really dependant on object or heirarchies or metadata... am i off base here?
[15:34] Charlette Proto: but the requirements of sits are a great start to getting somewhere towards avatar interactions with objects eg hold etc
[15:34] StarSong Bright: but that is a whole other subject
[15:34] StarSong Bright: for stands and walks we are talking attitude, you are disucssing interaction. whole other kettle of fish
[15:35] Morgaine Dinova: Well you have to keep looking ahead. If all you're interested in is low hanging fruit, pretty soon you'll run out and starve ;-)
[15:35] Morgaine Dinova: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Prim_and_Object_Hierarchy
[15:35] Charlette Proto: interaction via sit depends on object type the same as hold - all one class of befaviours
[15:36] Charlette Proto: I don't think we would need any more than a mask based on an 8 bit number, but I could be wrong
[15:37] Charlette Proto: did I say I could be wrong hehe
[15:37] McCabe Maxsted loves the idea of attitude
[15:37] Morgaine Dinova: Hehe
[15:38] Malbers Linden: I like it too as an input into AOs of all kinds
[15:38] Charlette Proto: eg the physical binary is a number that could be extended to accommodate the rest of behaviours
[15:38] Charlette Proto: I have an up myself attitude most of the time, but not everyone is like me
[15:38] McCabe Maxsted: it brings a lot to avatars, as well ao makers; a lot of people sell multiple versions of similar aos for different moods
[15:39] McCabe Maxsted: malbers have you played with the emoter hud?
[15:39] Malbers Linden: i haven't.
[15:39] Charlette Proto: what do you think of the 'physical' variable in the object as a place to store the interaction behaviours
[15:40] McCabe Maxsted: try it with a human av and see how much fun it is
[15:40] Malbers Linden: a Human what?!?!
[15:40] Malbers Linden: ok, i do have a few of those
[15:40] Jacek Antonelli: hehehe
[15:40] Charlette Proto: or is that just a part of an attribute holding many other binary properties
[15:41] McCabe Maxsted: keep one or two in your trunk eh ;)
[15:41] Malbers Linden: they are delicious when seasoned correctly
[15:41] Morgaine Dinova: Instead of extending prims with behaviour data (which isn't appropriate for a construction material), add a separate object that is intended to carry properties.
[15:41] Jacek Antonelli: You could let one out of its cage and experiment on it
[15:41] Charlette Proto: ah don't forget the tinies and furries and their odd animation requirementa
[15:41] Charlette Proto: requirements*
[15:41] Morgaine Dinova: And huge ones, like ancient dragons
[15:42] Malbers Linden: well, there are specific AOs for non-normalish-human avs already, right
[15:42] StarSong Bright: well my idea of attitude would still allow for AOs, becsue we are talking about switching the defulats.. an ao would still override those
[15:42] Charlette Proto: does anyone know how the physical is stored and if it could be extended like flexi is now
[15:43] Malbers Linden: sorry Charelette, i don't know
[15:43] McCabe Maxsted: personally, I store my physical in a condo by the tracks, but that's just me
[15:43] Charlette Proto: yes dragons are my pet hate, I overlooked them
[15:43] Malbers Linden: i do like the idea of "attitude" being another input/variable for all AOs
[15:44] Morgaine Dinova: Star: there's a problem with that, because there is no event system to trigger change of anims so much polling is required, which is both slow and a drain. In contrast, replacing default anims gets you instant start.
[15:44] Malbers Linden: AO creators would use it or ignore it
[15:44] Charlette Proto: my physical I suppose is the subject for everyone l meet so my storage is distributed
[15:44] Camber Front Door: VeX Lionheart is at the door.
[15:44] Security Panel: VeX Lionheart, you are not authorized to use this console.
[15:44] StarSong Bright: but IF it was built in to the client, the trigger would be whatever the trigger is NOW for the defauilt sl anims
[15:45] StarSong Bright: nothign to trigger, just happesn
[15:45] Charlette Proto: I agree with Malbers about attitude, since current AOs are so borring and always the same
[15:45] Lower Deck Doors: VeX Lionheart is at the door.
[15:45] Malbers Linden: would keep from have to distribute multiple AOs
[15:45] Lower Deck Doors: VeX Lionheart is at the door.
[15:45] Morgaine Dinova: Nothing "just happens" ... although we like to give users the illusion that it does :-)
[15:45] Charlette Proto: VeX sounds like a griefer name
[15:46] Charlette Proto: sorry Vex for outing you
[15:46] StarSong Bright: well, i would make the assumption that such an inbuilt attitude system to replace the defaults would use the exact same mechanisms that are in place now
[15:46] McCabe Maxsted: how would people switch between their inworld ao/no ao/different built in aos?
[15:47] Malbers Linden: not sure I understand the question, McCabe
[15:47] StarSong Bright: i woould hope it would be transparent, and that your ao woudl override your attitude, just as they overrule the sl default anims now
[15:47] Morgaine Dinova: The mechanisms in place now are inadequate though, because of the lag before the anim in an AO kicks in.
[15:47] Charlette Proto: I could have a company sensitive AO which adapts according to who I'm with eg eliminate the sexy poses when I'm here hehe
[15:47] McCabe Maxsted: well, for example, you change an anim in the client, then wear an object that has a competing anim; who wins
[15:48] StarSong Bright: perhaps i did not explain what i had in mind well enough?
[15:48] Charlette Proto: anims have the priority attribute for that
[15:49] Charlette Proto: I know priority is currently often stuffed up but it could be used for that
[15:49] McCabe Maxsted: the anims have the same priority
[15:49] StarSong Bright: This is what i picture, a tab in the appearance mode - Attitude, with one choice each for walk, swim, fly, etc and you can choose an anim for that spot
[15:49] Morgaine Dinova: Pity that the priority attribute doesn't have an auto-cycle for those at the same priority, so that AOs have to cycle them.
[15:49] Jacek Antonelli: If two anims have the same priority, whichever is played last wins (currently)
[15:49] StarSong Bright: the system would have to force them to low priority, and bascially just switch them in in place of the defauilt ones. if the user chooses nothing then the defulats are there
[15:49] StarSong Bright: and there is a button there to "just go back to the duck walk" if they get messed u
[15:49] StarSong Bright: p
[15:50] McCabe Maxsted nods. Okay. hehe, star, I like all of that except the appearance editor part :)
[15:50] Charlette Proto: but arent we replacing the dickwalk with something more paletable
[15:50] StarSong Bright: well it needs to go somewhere
[15:50] StarSong Bright: for me attitude and appearance are not that far apart
[15:50] StarSong Bright: also, geez we do NOT need one more screen in preferences lol
[15:51] McCabe Maxsted: I'd rather have it as a collapsable hud; the appearance editor is large and unwieldy
[15:51] Charlette Proto: what that is mixing permanent and momentary interactions
[15:51] Charlette Proto: appearance is the last place I'd put attitude
[15:51] Morgaine Dinova: I don't even mind how it's controlled at the UI, I'll leave that to good UI designers. I'm concerned with how it's implemented internally, to be both efficient, fast (which is different), and flexible.
[15:52] Charlette Proto: we need an AO hud in the viewer I thionk
[15:52] Charlette Proto: think*
[15:52] Malbers Linden: was thinking about it more like IM status which would broadcast itself to interested AOs
[15:52] StarSong Bright: nods, that is a possiblilty too. i was thinking of ways to do it where it would not break existing aos
[15:53] McCabe Maxsted: kinda like plurk?
[15:53] Charlette Proto: existing AOs are crap for the most part
[15:53] Malbers Linden: haven't used plurk but i think so
[15:53] Charlette Proto: especially when it come to attitude
[15:53] Morgaine Dinova: I think existing AOs are trying to work around the limitations. We should instead remove those limitations.
[15:53] Charlette Proto: yes I agree
[15:54] StarSong Bright: yes charlette but do YOU wanna be the av they burn in effegy for doing away with their zhaos?
[15:54] Jacek Antonelli: On a theoretical (and perhaps soon practical) level, a built-in AO in the viewer is feasible with the current infrastructure, just by stopping and playing the different animations. One thing that I think could be improved is the priority system.
[15:54] McCabe Maxsted: heh, I wouldn't really mind
[15:54] Morgaine Dinova: Star: never let Luddites rule your future :-)
[15:54] McCabe Maxsted: how so jacek?
[15:54] Charlette Proto: well I could CopyBot myself and give it away for everyone to burn OK
[15:55] StarSong Bright: laughs
[15:55] StarSong Bright: so long as you do it with attitude, grins
[15:55] McCabe Maxsted: charlette: if you ever figure out how to dl copybot, send me a copy of your av
[15:55] Jacek Antonelli: For one thing, there are only 4 or 5 priority levels allowed, and they have to be the same on every body part. So you can't have a pose which has high priority motion in the arms, and low priority in the legs.
[15:55] McCabe Maxsted: ahh
[15:55] Charlette Proto: sure McCabe, a dude copied my friend the other day
[15:55] McCabe Maxsted: wow didn't realize it was that low few
[15:56] Charlette Proto: but it didn't copy attitude
[15:56] StarSong Bright: ah then we go off on the tangent of the werid things sl does to the animtion files on upload
[15:56] McCabe Maxsted: is that serverside enforced, or can we add more levels into the client?
[15:56] Jacek Antonelli: Though the animation format might support per-joint priorities already. I saw something that might be that in the code.
[15:57] Charlette Proto: Jacek is right we need to think of the AO as part of the viewer and it could be a good start to thinking of HUDs at large
[15:57] Jacek Antonelli: I'll have to experiment. We can increase the slider, but the question is whether the server will accept them.
[15:57] Charlette Proto: some animations can be mixed so I think you are right Jacek
[15:58] StarSong Bright turns and smiles at malbers, any official word on the new avatars yet mal?
[15:58] Malbers Linden: New avatars?
[15:58] McCabe Maxsted: hm, if we could add that in, I can almost see a market for non-inworld ao packages; have an ao package system defined that people could sell and easily install
[15:58] Charlette Proto: that is an important point
[15:58] Morgaine Dinova: Jacek, if the viewer selects an anim to play, how does that get communicated to the server?
[15:58] Jacek Antonelli: There is one case where you can have different priority levels on different body parts -- body parts that don't move at all are discarded.
[15:58] Malbers Linden: we got some last year, right?
[15:58] Malbers Linden: do you mean More?
[15:58] Malbers Linden: There is soem work on streamlining Av creation/modification
[15:58] Malbers Linden: for newbies
[15:59] McCabe Maxsted: please tell me it's a flash online av creation tool
[15:59] Jacek Antonelli: Morgaine: I'm not sure the exact mechanics of it, but pretty much there are start and stop requests. Viewer says "Start anim [UUID]" to the server.
[15:59] Morgaine Dinova: I vote we ignore newbies and focus on fixing things for old timers ;-)))
[15:59] McCabe Maxsted: create your av while the client dls--sign in--bam, it's already there
[15:59] Charlette Proto: Raloc are you here for the meeting or just lost in Second Life™
[15:59] Jacek Antonelli: That would be the best thing since sliced prims, McCabe
[16:00] Malbers Linden: I haven't kept track of where they are in that design process
[16:00] McCabe Maxsted: hehe
[16:00] McCabe Maxsted: *grin*
[16:00] Malbers Linden: the original ideas was for it to be on the web before signing in
[16:00] Raloc Dorado: I'm just listening in, I never came to an office hour before
[16:00] Morgaine Dinova: After all, SL can't cope with more newbies anywhere until it becomes scalable, so focussing on them doesn't make much sense, unless you want SL to collaopse more :-)
[16:00] McCabe Maxsted: all they need to do is put the pieces together, can already define an av in xml
[16:00] Charlette Proto: ah welcome to your first open hour
[16:00] Jacek Antonelli: Hi Raloc :) Feel free to listen or participate, whatever you feel like :)
[16:00] Raloc Dorado: Thanks!
[16:00] Malbers Linden: Yes, welcome Raloc
[16:00] McCabe Maxsted waves
[16:01] Raloc Dorado: I'm interested but I don't have anything to add at the moment
[16:01] Jacek Antonelli: And hi Kei
[16:01] kei Kling: 여기 그룹 모임인가여?
[16:01] kei's translator: This group is meeting over?
[16:01] Malbers Linden: that's cool
[16:01] kei Kling: 네
[16:01] kei's translator: Yes
[16:01] Charlette Proto: well the hour is over but we usually go overtime
[16:01] McCabe Maxsted: kei: not until we sacrafice another human to malbers, and since you're the newcomer....
[16:01] Malbers Linden: as I've always said, I eat very few residents
[16:02] Charlette Proto: but we don't really cope well with translator spam kei
[16:02] Raloc Dorado: hmm :)
[16:02] Jacek Antonelli: Right, because the ones you *do* eat, you digest slowly over the course of 10,000 years
[16:02] Jacek Antonelli: And they never get a chance to cancel their premium subscription. Muahaha!
[16:02] kei Kling: 통역기 써도 못알아 듣겠네 여
[16:02] kei's translator: I use deutgetne recognize tongyeokgi F
[16:02] Charlette Proto: you mean beyond the limits of UNIX time variable Jacek
[16:02] Malbers Linden is trying to remain a svelte jellyfish
[16:03] Morgaine Dinova: Is that a Swedish jellyfish? ;-)
[16:03] McCabe Maxsted: it's all in your attitude, right?
[16:03] Jacek Antonelli: *ba-dum ching!*
[16:03] Morgaine Dinova: lol @ lag :-)
[16:03] Charlette Proto: do jellyfish have attitude, I thought it was all water currents
[16:04] StarSong Bright: ok so.. where are we with the disucssion of ao?
[16:04] Jacek Antonelli: I think I'm going to go prepare the transcript, then experiment with animation priorities
[16:04] Charlette Proto: switches to attentive to the subject attitude
[16:04] McCabe Maxsted: I wonder if people would want to tie anims to particular keywords. Like gestures, but more subtle
[16:04] Malbers Linden: yeah, I think we had some ideas that Jacek (et. al.) can experiment with
[16:05] Morgaine Dinova: How many here are using the new Imprudence RC1, other than J+M?
[16:05] Raloc Dorado: Not me, but I might give it a try sometime
[16:05] Charlette Proto: I agree, the viewer based AO HUD has some relevant stuff in our HUD discussion too
[16:06] McCabe Maxsted nods. I really want to go play with building client-side huds now. But then I want to play with fixing bulk uploads... and fixing cmake... and fixing urls *sigh* the endless list
[16:06] Jacek Antonelli: Alright, let's wrap up the official meeting. Feel free to stay and chat as long as you want :)
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