Open Source Meeting/2009-03-26

Agenda

64bit

Follow up from IRC discussion with soft and others last week. There is increasing demand for 64 bit viewers, but probably not enough to warrent an offical release that would over-stretch QA even further. Its quite common to see people trying to compile the viewer in non-standalone mode and fail and ask on IRC. So can we get to some middle ground? We already have many libs listed as linux64 in install.xml, can we at least complete this so non-standalone builds work on 64bit. (Robin Cornelius)

VWR-12587 Fix cmake install target (Robin Cornelius)

Dale Glass' gstreamer patch to show current song playing in chat (sent to sldev) (Robin Cornelius)

Minutes

[14:01] Soft Linden: This would be lie after lie >:/
[14:01] Aimee Trescothick: really virtual?
[14:01] Sasuke Dragovar: bho
[14:01] Sasuke's translator: bho
[14:01] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Merov
[14:01] Sasuke Dragovar: silenzio
[14:01] Sasuke's translator: silence
[14:01] Aimee Trescothick: no, soft is the squidgiest linden
[14:01] Dale Glass: Soft does very cool things :-) That's more important than the furriness or lack of it
[14:01] Merov Linden: hi guys
[14:01] Q Linden: is virtuous
[14:01] Belshazaroth Fargis: what is squidgiest?
[14:01] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Rob
[14:01] Aimee Trescothick: hrm, ah, err
[14:01] Sasuke Dragovar: rob linden
[14:01] Sasuke's translator: rob linden
[14:01] Dale Glass: hi Rob
[14:01] Rob Linden: hi y'all
[14:02] Q Linden: it's kind of like furry, only underwater. with caching.
[14:02] Sasuke Dragovar: strano come puporro
[14:02] Sasuke's translator: strange how puporro
[14:02] Morgaine Dinova: lol Q
[14:02] Aimee Trescothick: squidy kinda means soft lol
[14:02] Sasuke Dragovar: you are born in 2006
[14:02] Sasuke's translator: you are born in 2006
[14:02] Sasuke Dragovar: ?
[14:02] Sasuke's translator: ?
[14:02] Sasuke Dragovar: wow
[14:02] Sasuke's translator: wow
[14:02] Sasuke Dragovar: you are very old
[14:02] Sasuke's translator: you are very old
[14:02] Aimee Trescothick: LOL, only in second life
[14:02] Belshazaroth Fargis: Well, I can't say I've ever seen more than 1 linden at a time. This sets a record...4 so far >.>
[14:02] Morgaine Dinova: That's not old
[14:03] Sasuke Dragovar: ahaahha
[14:03] Sasuke's translator: ahaahha
[14:03] Sasuke Dragovar: yes in second life he are
[14:03] Sasuke's translator: yes in second life are he
[14:03] Aimee Trescothick: only in SL is a 5 year old classed as a pensioner
[14:03] Robin Cornelius: we keep hitting peak linden concurancy records on #opensl
[14:03] Morgaine Dinova: Agenda?
[14:03] Rob Linden: and look at that...we've got an agenda
[14:03] Morgaine Dinova: Woohoo!
[14:03] Soft Linden: There ya go, Bels. That's about 40 in one place.
[14:03] Belshazaroth Fargis: whatisit?
[14:03] Soft Linden: Earlier today
[14:03] Merov Linden: we do?
[14:04] Sasuke Dragovar: silence
[14:04] Belshazaroth Fargis: oh...
[14:04] Sasuke Dragovar: parla
[14:04] Sasuke's translator: speaks
[14:04] Belshazaroth Fargis: I see, muchos lindenos
[14:04] Rob Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Meeting/Agenda
[14:04] Belshazaroth Fargis: spends the 40L
[14:04] Rob Linden: first up: 64-bit
[14:04] Rob Linden: (assuming Linux here)
[14:05] Robin Cornelius: think thats a fair assumption considering who added that ;-p
[14:05] Sasuke Dragovar: -.-
[14:05] Sasuke's translator: -.-
[14:05] Rob Linden: not much to say on this topic right now, other than it's on our radar and we're plunking through the process
[14:05] Khyota Wulluf: noticed a bug with the wrapper script on trunk builds now, it will disable gstreamer if it dectects a 64bit machine, even if the build is 64
[14:06] Belshazaroth Fargis: when does SL need more than 4 gigs of ram, or am I missing the point?
[14:06] Robin Cornelius: whats the current target? to get to a point where the libs are avaiable? but no QA etc and no offical release?
[14:06] Sasuke Dragovar: what the f***?
[14:06] Sasuke's translator: what the f ***?
[14:06] Robin Cornelius: Belshaz, some of us have 64bit systems and running 32bit compat libs is a royal pain
[14:06] Robin Cornelius: we want to be able to take trunk and *just* build
[14:07] Rob Linden: we'll get there sooner or later (obviously). we've got some other fish we're frying right now, but enough of us (/me raises hand) are experiencing personal pain from this that it won't just get backburnered entirely
[14:07] Belshazaroth Fargis: it adds overhead to run 32 bit apps in 64 bit OS because you need to emulate 32 bit mode?
[14:07] Asterion Coen: /hello folks
[14:07] Sasuke Dragovar: whaaaaaaaaaaaat?
[14:07] Sasuke's translator: whaaaaaaaaaaaat?
[14:07] Robin Cornelius: you can't compile non-standalone on a 64bit linux host
[14:07] Morgaine Dinova: Aye, we dealt with the details last week. But yes, 32-bit emulation can't really be fixed for 64-bit machines, since there are no emul libs for it. 64-bit native releases overcome that.
[14:08] Morgaine Dinova: gstreamer that ios
[14:08] Asterion Coen: morgaine :)
[14:08] Sasuke Dragovar: cosa il bit
[14:08] Sasuke's translator: What is the bit
[14:08] Sasuke Dragovar: and 64 and 32
[14:08] Sasuke's translator: and 64 and 32
[14:08] Sasuke Dragovar: what's is it this s****?
[14:08] Sasuke's translator: what's is it this ****? s
[14:09] Khyota Wulluf: i think sasuke is at the wrong meeting
[14:09] Sasuke Dragovar: yes
[14:09] Sasuke's translator: yes
[14:09] Belshazaroth Fargis: I think he's angry
[14:09] Sasuke Dragovar: pensare pure io
[14:09] Sasuke's translator: well I think
[14:09] Robin Cornelius: ok cool so in summary it looks like something will happen WRT 64bit
[14:10] Sasuke's translator: -.- '
[14:10] Morgaine Dinova: Would be great. Any luck with Vivox?
[14:10] Rob Linden: Robin: yes, I think so.
[14:10] Sasuke Dragovar: -.-'
[14:10] Robin Cornelius: nothing to report from vivox yet, pinging time i thing
[14:10] Robin Cornelius: *think
[14:11] Belshazaroth Fargis: oh hai sai
[14:11] Rob Linden: next up: cmake issue: VWR-12587
[14:11] Saijanai Kuhn: hey all
[14:11] Rob Linden: looks like Soft is taking this on
[14:11] Asterion Coen: hey saij ;)
[14:11] Robin Cornelius: yea pretty simple and self-explanitory
[14:11] Sasuke Dragovar: quindi
[14:11] Sasuke's translator: hence
[14:11] Robin Cornelius: just got left out somewhere when things got changed
[14:11] Soft Linden: I did talk to the voice team, and they said they'd pass a request for the 64-bit build on to vivox if I spec it out
[14:12] Sasuke Dragovar: vorrei sapere perch sono stato bandito da una parte di hippotropolis
[14:12] Sasuke's translator: I would like to know why I was banned from the party hippotropolis
[14:12] Robin Cornelius: cool soft!
[14:12] Khyota Wulluf: yay
[14:12] Soft Linden: There's no commitment for them to do it, but I'll try to convince them it's a good idea. If y'all are nicely asking it may help too.
[14:12] Sasuke Dragovar: answer my questions
[14:12] Sasuke's translator: answer my questions
[14:13] Belshazaroth Fargis: No drama please, Sasuke.
[14:13] Saijanai Kuhn: Sasuke you annoyed the guy who owns Second LIfe. Nuff said?
[14:13] Morgaine Dinova: This is a technical meeting, Sasuke. Last week Philip had to deal with your griefing. You're in the wrong place.
[14:13] Khyota Wulluf: theres really no excuse
[14:13] Sasuke Dragovar: what=
[14:13] Sasuke's translator: what =
[14:14] Sasuke Dragovar: what?
[14:14] Belshazaroth Fargis: I'll comment that his translator works pretty well
[14:14] Asterion Coen: /(hmm, better is to get a sit)
[14:14] Sasuke Dragovar: il mio aereo a disturbato?
[14:14] Sasuke's translator: my air disturbed?
[14:14] Sasuke Dragovar: and my car?
[14:14] Sasuke's translator: and my car?
[14:14] Sasuke Dragovar: ahahahahaahhahaa
[14:14] Sasuke's translator: ahahahahaahhahaa
[14:14] Asterion Coen: /hop
[14:15] Rob Linden: anyway...where were we
[14:15] Asterion Coen: 32/64
[14:15] Morgaine Dinova: Good, sounds like progress on the 64-bit front, very cool.
[14:15] Belshazaroth Fargis: \o/
[14:15] Belshazaroth Fargis: is this 64 bit stuff going to let windows users compile to 64 bit too?
[14:15] Rob Linden: yup. cmake fix that Robin put in the agenda doesn't look complicated
[14:16] Khyota Wulluf: yay
[14:16] Rob Linden: Belshzaroth: it'll help at a dev level some, but that's a whole different matter
[14:17] Liandra Ceawlin: Just out of curiosity, and I apologize for interrupting... What happens to the memory footprint when all the pointers and stuff in the compiled CIL get twice as large? >_>
[14:17] Robin Cornelius: 64 bit for windows is more complex becuase you don't have any 64 bit libs to hand to link with
[14:17] Rob Linden: Liandra: it goes up
[14:17] Rob Linden: we hit that problem on the simulator
[14:17] Robin Cornelius: on linux we've had 64bit distros with all the secondlife dependencies for a while
[14:17] Liandra Ceawlin: Not unmanagably though? -- Nods, I was just gonna mention that. :P
[14:17] Rob Linden: it's one of the tradeoffs
[14:18] Asterion Coen: /(that's maybe why we should directly go to 128, b4 the began to do 64b stuffs) :)
[14:18] Asterion Coen: begin*
[14:18] Khyota Wulluf: i hope its not x86
[14:18] Belshazaroth Fargis: there's gonna be a 128 bit? lol?
[14:18] Dale Glass: Heh, 64 bit should last for a good while
[14:18] Rob Linden: there needs to be a very deliberate effort to use the right size of ints for the problem at hand in order for memory size not to go up substantially
[14:19] Aimee Trescothick: would be happy with 33 1/3, I'm not greedy
[14:19] Asterion Coen: that's about what told some guy, some years ago about 128k ram :)
[14:19] Asterion Coen: (or it was 64k.. hmm)
[14:19] Dale Glass: that must have been quite many years ago, it certainly wasn't a lot in 1995 or so
[14:20] Khyota Wulluf: 128-bit processors could become prevalent when 16 exbibytes of addressable memory is no longer enough (128-bit processors would allow for 274,877,906,944 yottabytes of memory). However, physical limits make such large amounts of memory currently impossible.
[14:20] Morgaine Dinova: Ints are default 32 bit on gcc for 64-bit machines anyway, so not really an issue there. It's just the pointers and the longs that grow.
[14:20] Khyota Wulluf: (lOL0
[14:20] Robin Cornelius: and watch the size_t's
[14:20] Liandra Ceawlin: Cool. Thankies. I wasn't sure what compiled CIL did on 64bit, lol.
[14:21] Rob Linden: anyway, next up: Dale's patch
[14:21] Rob Linden: Dale: want to talk a little more about it?
[14:21] Belshazaroth Fargis: I haz want!
[14:21] Dale Glass: Well it's a proof of concept thing
[14:21] Dale Glass: I was wondering if maybe it has to be done differently
[14:21] Asterion Coen: /(when it will be fun, it's when they will commerialize biotech CPU and other chips) :)
[14:22] Seven Devin: timidly waves her hand in greetings and sits to listen
[14:22] Dale Glass: like adding a scrolling title to the panel, or something of the sort, instead of dumping it into the chat log?
[14:22] Morgaine Dinova: Dale, does that just show ICY Info metadata, or somethign else?
[14:22] Soft Linden: It would sure be nice to be able to copy/paste it
[14:22] Dale Glass: shows the stream title
[14:22] Soft Linden: Can you copy out of the new notifications history?
[14:22] Morgaine Dinova: kk
[14:22] Dale Glass: example from my window:
[14:22] Dale Glass: [11:33
[14:23] Belshazaroth Fargis: it would be nice is LSL scripts could get at it instead of using php to get the stream info
[14:23] Belshazaroth Fargis: per se, the parcel chats the info, but it'd be server code then
[14:23] Dale Glass: also would be nice if somebody could look at the patch and tell me if I'm doing it right
[14:24] Belshazaroth Fargis: >.>
[14:24] Belshazaroth Fargis: doin' it rong?
[14:24] Dale Glass: Currently I patched the media controls, to get a reference to the media implementation out of gAudiop
[14:24] Morgaine Dinova: Dale, I'll talk to the Imprudence folks and see if your patch can be checked out for feedback.
[14:24] Robin Cornelius: sai, thats a snapshot right there
[14:25] Dale Glass: Just wondering if that's the right way to do it
[14:25] Thickbrick Sleaford: the current imprudence has a patch that dumps the info to the console
[14:25] Morgaine Dinova: waves at Philip
[14:25] Soft Linden: Dumps stream info?
[14:25] Thickbrick Sleaford: IIRC, yes
[14:25] Philip Linden: hiya morgaine
[14:26] Asterion Coen: /(morgaine, and what about my spouuur about the milk!?)
[14:26] Rob Linden: agenda for the latecomers : http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Meeting/Agenda
[14:26] Dale Glass: So that's pretty much it really. And it'd be nice if somebody could make a Windows/OSX implementation, because I can't test those atm
[14:27] Morgaine Dinova: Yep, lots of useful data is output to the console. The SL live music community uses that extensively at concerts, but it would be nicer to have it available at the UI too.
[14:27] Rob Linden: I'm not in a good spot to give feedback on the patch myself. I'm judging from Soft's reply ont he mailing list that it looks interesting
[14:27] Soft Linden: Sure. I haven't looked at the code yet - I was responding to the idea
[14:27] Rob Linden: the patch looks like it might be backwards....
[14:27] Robin Cornelius: clearly would need import from the UI team as well as i guess they would want to poke and prod where it outputs data to etc
[14:28] Rob Linden: (just in that there's a lot of lines removed, and not much added
[14:28] Morgaine Dinova: It's not too bad on Linux/Mac, but cut'n'paste from Windows consoles is pretty scary for a lot of users :P
[14:28] Dale Glass: ...gah
[14:28] Robin Cornelius: heh thats what -R is for on patch ;-p
[14:28] Liandra Ceawlin: I do that all the time. ;_; Lol.
[14:29] Rob Linden: so you added an event handler, and then used it. seems reasonable to me
[14:29] Rob Linden: (er....I guess an event hook)
[14:30] Dale Glass: sighs. Ok, making patches at 5 AM is bad.
[14:30] Soft Linden: The code and approach look okay. I'm anxious about whether fmod has the matching call for the title...
[14:31] Morgaine Dinova: That would be gstreamer in the case of OpenAL-based Linux I assume, rather than FMOD
[14:31] Rob Linden: Dale: if you decide to submit it, I'd suggest breaking it up into a couple of patches
[14:31] Soft Linden: Nah, I think this is okay as one patch...
[14:31] Soft Linden: But it would need something stubbed in for fmod too, even if it's just explicitly deactivating there until we can get the matching impl
[14:32] Q Linden: if this flowed through the new notifications framework, you could have other listeners or redirect the channel for how it displays
[14:32] Rob Linden: Soft: you don't think it's better to treat the onMediaTitleChange as a separate thing?
[14:32] Morgaine Dinova: Q: that's interesting
[14:32] Q Linden: you could retrieve the message, send a notification
[14:32] Dale Glass: sorry, what new notifications framework?
[14:32] Q Linden: it's part of 1.23
[14:32] Soft Linden: In trunk/ right now
[14:33] Q Linden: replaces all the different methods for sending popups
[14:33] Morgaine Dinova: \o/
[14:33] Q Linden: and implements a message/event system plus stacked queues for managing them
[14:33] Q Linden: you could create a new notification type for this and other types of messages
[14:34] Robin Cornelius: Soft FMOD 3.75 appears to have functions for stream info
[14:34] Dale Glass: interesting, I'll have to take a look at that
[14:34] Q Linden: so it could become a blue corner popup, etc. We don't have a mechanism for sending something to chat right now, but it could.
[14:34] Morgaine Dinova: Hopefully the days of immoveable blue client-side handlers are numbered :-)
[14:35] Q Linden: Morgaine, they may not be sequentially numbered, but they're numbered.
[14:35] Soft Linden: Robin - sounds like a win then!
[14:35] Morgaine Dinova: Haha
[14:35] Robin Cornelius: F_API FSOUND_Stream_Net_SetMetadataCallback(FSOUND_STREAM *stream, FSOUND_METADATACALLBACK callback, void *userdata);
[14:35] Aimee Trescothick: I'd like my notifications via the 7-segment display on my microwave please
[14:35] Soft Linden: The approach looks okay - maybe a notification as Q says - and we can surely find someone else who'd pitch in the fmod equivalent call
[14:35] Belshazaroth Fargis: Ooooh ooooh! Meee!
[14:36] Belshazaroth Fargis: could be like....my first project >:3
[14:36] Dale Glass: well one thing I was thinking is that startInternetStream is called from other places, like the parcel manager
[14:36] Morgaine Dinova: purrs at Open
[14:36] Q Linden: Aimee, I tried that, but it kept saying 3507
[14:37] Dale Glass: so maybe having this in lloverlaybar isn't optimal (or maybe it fails sometimes, got to do more testing still)
[14:37] Rob Linden: on the subject of separate patches....the under the hood changes will be easier to take, I think, than the UI changes, hence my suggestion.
[14:37] Aimee Trescothick: lol, cool
[14:37] Rob Linden: (plus the under the hood changes could really use unit tests)
[14:37] Aimee Trescothick: mine has been stuck on 13:37 since I was 18
[14:37] Soft Linden: A few seconds' delay before notifying could help to deal with rapid parcel crossings
[14:37] Morgaine Dinova: LOL AImee
[14:38] Dale Glass: hmm will have to test that
[14:38] Thickbrick Sleaford: Dale here is one of the patches for metadata in imprudence: http://imprudence.lighthouseapp.com/projects/17526/tickets/99-patch-show-music-title-as-notifybox#ticket-99-1
[14:38] Thickbrick Sleaford: (no idea if it's the latest)
[14:39] Morgaine Dinova: Don't think that's in Imprudence RC2 Think. Not seen it, anyway
[14:39] Thickbrick Sleaford: RC2 only outputs it to the console
[14:39] Morgaine Dinova: Ah RC3 feature!
[14:40] Rob Linden: Dale: was that what you were looking for?
[14:40] Soft Linden: Looking for?
[14:40] Rob Linden: (feedback-wise)
[14:41] Dale Glass: yeah, thanks :-)
[14:41] Soft Linden: Would someone mind capturing this much on list?
[14:41] Rob Linden: well, I think that's the end of the posted agenda
[14:42] Soft Linden: I'll snip this much out of the chat log and put it in a reply.
[14:42] Rob Linden: Soft: I'll post the transcript to the wiki
[14:42] Soft Linden: Or that.
[14:43] Belshazaroth Fargis: This place is cozy, but who built it has poor alignment skills
[14:43] Rob Linden: Belshazaroth: that may just be a maintenance issue....it's been here a while
[14:44] Aimee Trescothick: it's been shuffled around a bit at times
[14:44] Philip Linden: seems workable. :)
[14:45] Aimee Trescothick: textures are showing signs of wear and tear
[14:45] Liandra Ceawlin: Well, thank y'all for putting up with my ignorant questions, lol. Off to Aditi for me. Have a good day, everyone! ^_^
[14:45] Morgaine Dinova: Requirements list: 1) Does it have seats? End of requirements. :-)
[14:45] Aimee Trescothick: ;)
[14:46] Asterion Coen: (and milk for kitties)
[14:46] Rob Linden: anyone have anything else they want to bring up/ask about?
[14:46] Belshazaroth Fargis: The misalignment turns my world upside down and makes it hard for me to sleep at night
[14:46] Morgaine Dinova: Bye Liandra :-)
[14:46] Saijanai Kuhn: just another shameless plug for pyogp
[14:47] Asterion Coen: /(i think next time i will rezz a spinar bowl instead milk)
[14:47] Asterion Coen: bad kittie
[14:47] Saijanai Kuhn: 20 bots running from one pythong script
[14:47] Belshazaroth Fargis: lawl pythong
[14:47] Rob Linden: nice Saijanai
[14:47] Robin Cornelius: Sai, this has excited you *a lot* today?
[14:48] Saijanai Kuhn: for mature simns
[14:48] Robin Cornelius: so enus is getting it going well then?
[14:48] Saijanai Kuhn: well its been something I've been working on for over a year in one way or another
[14:48] Saijanai Kuhn: well enus has done most of hte work lately. Mostly been cheerleading
[14:48] Q Linden: enus has been rocking, yes
[14:48] Saijanai Kuhn: working on a GUI to let him click on a list of bots and log them in
[14:48] Morgaine Dinova: That's going to be very useful. Enus is certainly having a lot of fun making bots :-)
[14:48] Q Linden: sai, which gui tool?
[14:49] Saijanai Kuhn: ah, wxpython interface
[14:49] Q Linden: cool
[14:49] Morgaine Dinova: Serious side of it: great tool for testing SL.
[14:49] Thickbrick Sleaford: how functional is it compared to libomv by now?
[14:49] Philip Linden: we need to test more for sure.
[14:50] Saijanai Kuhn: that's enus' primary interest in it. He's got about 25 samp[le tests for QA already set up, and we're hoping the GUI can let him create them on-the-fly and save them
[14:50] Rob Linden: Thickbrick: good question....I'd like to know too
[14:50] Morgaine Dinova: Scripted regression testing should help enormously. QA is a bottleneck by all accounts, so the more tool automation the better.
[14:51] Saijanai Kuhn: It handles all incoming/outgoing packets (we think) but doesn't do anything with them at this point
[14:51] Rob Linden: That's great!
[14:51] Saijanai Kuhn: so it can log in, sit in a sim, say "hello" rez a box, send a group IM, etc, but only one at a time
[14:51] Q Linden: it does login, tp, presence, chat, etc
[14:51] Q Linden: but yes, it's nowhere close to a viewer
[14:51] Q Linden: but it does exercise protocols
[14:52] Saijanai Kuhn: and we've already run into bugs while testing how it handles the simplest things so its already shown its useful
[14:52] Soft Linden: Excellent
[14:52] Merov Linden: could be interesting for an automatic smoke test system
[14:53] Saijanai Kuhn: stray missing "0" on the end of some packets so we get intermittent rrors
[14:53] Morgaine Dinova: Note that it's meant to track OGP as well, not just legacy SL. As OGP evolves towards an interop standard, the hope is that PyOGP (or subuteyo as it's now called apparently) will be one reference implementation.
[14:53] Saijanai Kuhn: subeteyo was YOUR idea :-/
[14:53] Morgaine Dinova: It seems quite easy to work with as well.
[14:53] Robin Cornelius: if i understand its written from/ as you create the docs for the protocol? where as libomv was reversed from the viewer protocol so would not detected deivations from the protocol(s)?
[14:53] Morgaine Dinova: No it wasn't my idea. I asked you for a word in japanese that means "All worlds" :-)
[14:54] Saijanai Kuhn: true
[14:54] Saijanai Kuhn: yo no subete just doesn't sound as nice though
[14:54] Rob Linden: it's great having several implementations in several languages. that really broadens the community who will be likely to work with this stuff
[14:54] Morgaine Dinova: Aye
[14:54] Asterion Coen: (why in japanese?)
[14:54] Belshazaroth Fargis: >.>
[14:55] Belshazaroth Fargis: You know how you got things like Ruby
[14:55] Saijanai Kuhn: cause my avi name is faux japanese
[14:55] Morgaine Dinova: Only because Sai is a big Japanese fan :-)
[14:55] Belshazaroth Fargis: or python
[14:55] Saijanai Kuhn: Sai janai (I'm not sai)
[14:55] Asterion Coen: u should call it PyOmanga
[14:55] Morgaine Dinova: Haha
[14:56] Rob Linden: anything else to cover, or should we call it good for this week?
[14:56] Belshazaroth Fargis: I'd like to talk about...
[14:56] Saijanai Kuhn: so anyway, 95% of this is available via the pyogp distro on the wiki (this last part enus did today)
[14:56] Belshazaroth Fargis: scripting languages
[14:56] Dale Glass: Hmm, I was wondering, have any limits for bots been established?
[14:57] Rob Linden: Belshazaroth: you ahve something quick on that topic?
[14:57] Rob Linden: Dale: I'm not aware of any big changes in that area recently
[14:57] Belshazaroth Fargis: yeah, I'm making this LSL script which is supposed to take in variables and equations and let you solve them in main chat
[14:57] Belshazaroth Fargis: kinda like a programmable calculator
[14:57] Dale Glass: Rob: I mean regarding what they can do with the protocol
[14:58] Morgaine Dinova: Didn't Aimee make one of those?
[14:58] Belshazaroth Fargis: What are the odds of getting something as that put into SL client >.>
[14:58] Saijanai Kuhn: Dale we've chatted a lot with Zero about fine-tuning the protocols so a bot can requiest only a specific set of packets from the server
[14:58] Aimee Trescothick: heh, yeah, mine works in the build window fields
[14:58] Morgaine Dinova: Aye, very flexible Aimee
[14:59] Q Linden: Belshazaroth, you mean just a calculator in the UI? or a scripting language in the client?
[14:59] Belshazaroth Fargis: Q, an advanced calculator that works from chat
[14:59] Saijanai Kuhn: so an NPC greeter in a sim wouldn't use up nearly the resrouces as an avatar or the current generation of bots
[14:59] Robin Cornelius: There are some c libs that do math parsing/caluclation if you linked in one of them you could do it anywhere, via chat, via build, via prim dims entry... hmm that could be useful
[14:59] Dale Glass: Mainly, I've got a bot in development that may at times make a large amount of ObjectPropertiesFamily requests, and I wouldn't like to get anybody at LL annoyed with me for that :-)
[14:59] Seven Devin: sorry for my question, a direct command to set a texture from url is still not implemented?
[15:00] Aimee Trescothick: yeah, my one could easily be made to work in chat too
[15:00] Belshazaroth Fargis: I know. I have some scripter friends I know who'd wanna buy the parsing calculator for main chat from me
[15:00] Belshazaroth Fargis: as an LSL script, that is
[15:00] Robin Cornelius: being able to enter in the build window could be very useful, i've got analysis programs that i construct models for that way
[15:01] Philip Linden: gotta run. cya guys.
[15:01] Belshazaroth Fargis: I dunno this build window, you mean for editing prims?
[15:01] Saijanai Kuhn: take care Philip
[15:01] Morgaine Dinova: Cya Philip
[15:01] Rob Linden: Belshazaroth: it doesn't seem likely we'd put a lot of effort there, since that's not an area we're focused on
[15:01] Belshazaroth Fargis: bye Phillip
[15:01] Robin Cornelius: yes
[15:01] Asterion Coen: have fun phil
[15:01] Aimee Trescothick: VWR-675
[15:01] Seven Devin: well wishes Phillip
[15:01] Aimee Trescothick: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-675
[15:01] Q Linden: Well, if there were a patch that created a subclass of a gui <text> control that did math, it would be interesting...but probably not on our priority list.
[15:01] Robin Cornelius: if you were building real scale stuff, you might have a radius and be just want a diamater etc... as a simple example
[15:01] Aimee Trescothick: mine does that
[15:02] Robin Cornelius: i might steal Aimee's then
[15:02] Aimee Trescothick: :)
[15:02] Morgaine Dinova: Hehe
[15:02] Belshazaroth Fargis: This one I'm coding in LSL handles floats, vectors, and rotations.
[15:02] Aimee Trescothick: it's in Imprudence too I think
[15:02] Rob Linden: it can't hurt to experiement in that area
[15:02] Q Linden: aimee ... this is cool
[15:02] Belshazaroth Fargis: having to rebuild alot of it because I lot it from lsl-editor being gay
[15:02] Morgaine Dinova: goes outside and steals some air
[15:02] Aimee Trescothick: we discussed it here a while back
[15:02] Belshazaroth Fargis: *I lost it
[15:03] Soft Linden: LSL editor problems?
[15:03] Belshazaroth Fargis: LSL editor, the 3rd party LSL editing IDE
[15:03] Q Linden: funny, yes -- soft's comments are right on. tis shoud be a new editor type so you can set it up using xui
[15:03] Belshazaroth Fargis: it didn't save my file right, and I had 12kb of null chars
[15:03] Rob Linden: adding to what Q says, something implemented right with a good set of unit tests stands some chance of getting incorporated
[15:03] Soft Linden: Ugh.
[15:03] Aimee Trescothick: it has all the build window params in there as variables
[15:04] Belshazaroth Fargis: but LSL-plus for eclipse is the shiznit
[15:04] Q Linden: grins at seeing boost::spirit in there.
[15:04] Aimee Trescothick: XUI would definitely be the way to go with it, but I've not had time to rework it
[15:04] Rob Linden: k...well, I should probably get running myself
[15:04] Merov Linden: needs to go
[15:04] Belshazaroth Fargis: oh, as for IN-sl, the lsl editor here could use the ability to do unit tests among other things.
[15:04] Aimee Trescothick: RL work has gone kind bonkers the last few months
[15:04] Asterion Coen: need to go too
[15:04] Morgaine Dinova: Thanks all :-)
[15:04] Saijanai Kuhn: contemplates porting pyogp to java and merging it with LSL-plus
[15:05] Rob Linden: thanks everyone...great discussion!
[15:05] Q Linden: thanks, all
[15:05] Q Linden: bye
[15:05] Merov Linden: waves good bye, aufwiedersehn, adieu...
[15:05] Belshazaroth Fargis: Sai, what'd that let me do again?
[15:05] Rob Linden: bye all
[15:05] Home: Going: to home
[15:05] Asterion Coen: have fun folks :)

Open Source Meeting/2009-03-26

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