User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-05-14

List of Attendees

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[[User: * Estate - Adult: 1

| * Estate - Adult: 1 ]]

[[User: * Estate - Mature: 17955

| * Estate - Mature: 17955 ]]

[[User: * Estate - Offline: 8

| * Estate - Offline: 8 ]]

[[User: * Estate - PG: 3441

| * Estate - PG: 3441 ]]

[[User: * Linden - Adult: 7

| * Linden - Adult: 7 ]]

[[User: * Linden - Mature: 3982

| * Linden - Mature: 3982 ]]

[[User: * Linden - PG: 1421

| * Linden - PG: 1421 ]]

Transcript

[10:51 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: "At ease, pets" ;-)
[10:51 SLT] Erinyse Planer: be itnresting to see if the idiot actually shows up this week....
[10:51 SLT] xstorm Radek: hi Talarus
[10:51 SLT] Talarus Luan: Pets? O.o
[10:51 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Ah man, drama last week and I missed it?
[10:51 SLT] Moon Corrigible: I'm right here! .. hehehehe
[10:51 SLT] Talarus Luan: Greetings, xstorm :)
[10:51 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: Hmm, a viuctim of SL violence Diamond?
[10:51 SLT] Dytska Vieria: Drama is guarantted every week
[10:51 SLT] xstorm Radek: please do not call hard working people idiots
[10:51 SLT] Erinyse Planer: i dont. i call jack one
[10:52 SLT] Erinyse Planer: trust me hes not hard working...
[10:52 SLT] xstorm Radek: do not call jack one please
[10:52 SLT] Erinyse Planer: now bridie
[10:52 SLT] Erinyse Planer: twilight
[10:52 SLT] Erinyse Planer: q
[10:52 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Yikes, little aggressive Erinyse
[10:52 SLT] Erinyse Planer: their hard working
[10:52 SLT] Erinyse Planer: and smart
[10:52 SLT] Dytska Vieria: I think the sim is going to fill up - looks like another meeting
[10:52 SLT] Moon Corrigible: I think its protesters getting ready to come on over here actually
[10:53 SLT] Moon Corrigible: Though of course I could be wrong
[10:53 SLT] Erinyse Planer: their camped up by his office
[10:53 SLT] Uni Ninetails: Hi folks
[10:53 SLT] Moon Corrigible was playing with my cam
[10:53 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Oh a protest? How droll. What are they protesting? Bot thing?
[10:53 SLT] Mosley Sperber: Hi again
[10:53 SLT] Erinyse Planer: uni!
[10:53 SLT] Uni Ninetails: theres a sign up there btw
[10:53 SLT] xstorm Radek: hi Uni :-)
[10:53 SLT] Mosley Sperber: so yeah, the sign up there where the picketers are says he's out this week
[10:53 SLT] Erinyse Planer: elanthius their protesting the ghetto
[10:53 SLT] Moon Corrigible: Adult content filtering
[10:53 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Came to the wrong place then, it has hardly anything to do with Jack
[10:53 SLT] Uni Ninetails: christ there a bit late picketing
[10:53 SLT] Erinyse Planer: haha
[10:54 SLT] Erinyse Planer: you kidding me elanthius?
[10:54 SLT] Erinyse Planer: it has aLLOT to do with jack
[10:54 SLT] xstorm Radek: the Adult content is inplace and working fine
[10:54 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: He just works for customer service or something, nothing to do with policy like this
[10:54 SLT] xstorm Radek: did you miss its openting ?
[10:54 SLT] Erinyse Planer: um hes one of the policy makers at LL
[10:54 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: Didnt he try to say that last week?
[10:54 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: OK, believe what you like
[10:54 SLT] Talarus Luan: I don't generally call people "idiots"; I call their words and actions "idiotic" at times, but unless it is the normal, expected situation, even smart people can act idiotic without actually being idiots. ;)
[10:55 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: He tried to say that the U project wasnt a land issue or something
[10:55 SLT] Erinyse Planer: elanthius... Jack is one fo the peopel on the team that does ALL the policy making
[10:55 SLT] Uni Ninetails: Havent they figured out picketing didnt have any effect with the openspace debackle it sure as hell aint gonna work this time
[10:55 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: I guess I just assumed he wasn't involved since he has been almost completely uninvolved and most of the time doesn't even really know anything about it.
[10:55 SLT] Hank Sicling checks to make shure his cock is hidden....
[10:55 SLT] Moon Corrigible: Well it gives them something to do
[10:55 SLT] Mosley Sperber: Not sure if they have figured out anything, they kept calling me a dog
[10:55 SLT] xstorm Radek: nope *GIGGLES* :)Elanthius Flagstaff 20:23, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
[10:55 SLT] Talarus Luan: Actually, it had a major effect with openspaces
[10:55 SLT] Rysan Fall: I was saying the same thing not too long ago
[10:55 SLT] xstorm Radek: hi Tegg
[10:55 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen grumbles, Tal, where's the other dragon?"
[10:56 SLT] Rysan Fall: the open source protests were a farce
[10:56 SLT] Tegg Bode: Hi All
[10:56 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Maybe Jack is playing mind games with us by just pretending not to know anything about it
[10:56 SLT] Talarus Luan: Instead of Homesteads being $125 out of the gate, they got to be $95 for 6 months (at least)
[10:56 SLT] Erinyse Planer: dessie
[10:56 SLT] Erinyse Planer: uni it got them to do the price hike in steps and to add an entire new class of servers
[10:56 SLT] Erinyse Planer: and theres talk at LL of keeping the homesteads at 95
[10:56 SLT] Moon Corrigible: That is a good point
[10:56 SLT] Erinyse Planer: instead of hiking them
[10:56 SLT] xstorm Radek: you look good to day Uni
[10:56 SLT] Talarus Luan: Dunno, Tumble. He'll be here shortly I think
[10:56 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Erinyse : talk within LL or just random nobodies begging for it?
[10:56 SLT] Uni Ninetails: thanksies
[10:57 SLT] Uni Ninetails: Just finished making a writing animation for my typing AO
[10:57 SLT] Erinyse Planer: within ll
[10:57 SLT] xstorm Radek: great work
[10:57 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: So you have secret inside information then Erinyse?
[10:57 SLT] Uni Ninetails: tyty :)
[10:57 SLT] Erinyse Planer: i have allot of lindens i talk to regularly
[10:57 SLT] Erinyse Planer: one of the benifits of being a volunteer
[10:57 SLT] Uni Ninetails: So whats this about land image i got?
[10:58 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: How comes you didn't know Jack wasn't involved in AO then?
[10:58 SLT] xstorm Radek: do you now
[10:58 SLT] Erinyse Planer: I knwo jack is in ao
[10:58 SLT] xstorm Radek: you talk to lots Linden ?
[10:58 SLT] Erinyse Planer: xstorm look at my groups.
[10:58 SLT] xstorm Radek: so ?
[10:58 SLT] Erinyse Planer: two of them are linden owned volunteer groups
[10:59 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Right, CLUB CLEOPATRA, well known Linden hangout
[10:59 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen nods in the direction of CouldBe, "Greetings"
[10:59 SLT] Erinyse Planer: i interact with those lindens almsot daily
[10:59 SLT] xstorm Radek: thats nice
[10:59 SLT] Erinyse Planer: bsi
[10:59 SLT] Erinyse Planer: battery street irregulars
[10:59 SLT] Erinyse Planer: linden owned
[10:59 SLT] xstorm Radek: i have never seen one linden
[10:59 SLT] Couldbe Yue smiles at TumbleWeed and waves
[10:59 SLT] Erinyse Planer: i am part of triage...
[10:59 SLT] xstorm Radek: *GIGGLES* :)Elanthius Flagstaff 20:23, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
[10:59 SLT] Talarus Luan: You've seen Jack! :p
[11:00 SLT] Talarus Luan: That's one
[11:00 SLT] xstorm Radek: are you now
[11:00 SLT] Erinyse Planer: yes i am
[11:00 SLT] xstorm Radek: yes but jack is not one
[11:00 SLT] Talarus Luan: He's not a Linden? O.o
[11:00 SLT] Erinyse Planer: jack is a linden
[11:00 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: This is why LL shouldn't encourage this nonsense, gives people delusions of grandeur
[11:00 SLT] Qie Niangao: greetings, Jack
[11:00 SLT] Dytska Vieria: They should give out prizes and ribbons instead ;)
[11:00 SLT] xstorm Radek: no jack is not one he is more then one *GIGGLES* :)Elanthius Flagstaff 20:23, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
[11:01 SLT] xstorm Radek: hi hi Jack
[11:01 SLT] Erinyse Planer rolles eyes
[11:01 SLT] Mosley Sperber: Hi Jack
[11:01 SLT] Jack Linden: hi hi!
[11:01 SLT] Erinyse Planer: hey qie
[11:01 SLT] Uni Ninetails: heya Jack
[11:01 SLT] Equinox Pinion: hi jack
[11:01 SLT] Uni Ninetails: Might wanna not go upstairs...
[11:01 SLT] Jack Linden: hmm lots of people up in my office today!
[11:01 SLT] Cuddlebug Clowes: hi jack
[11:01 SLT] Erinyse Planer: lynch mobs waiting upstairs jack
[11:01 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: "And there he is, the lovely and talented, Jaaaaaack Linden!
[11:01 SLT] Mosley Sperber: It's safer down here. They called me a dog up there!
[11:01 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: I'm annoyed I'm gonna miss the excitement. Can't see anything but text on my crappy laptop
[11:01 SLT] Talarus Luan: Yeah.. there are a bunch of folks at your "office" :P
[11:01 SLT] xstorm Radek: Jack some of them have there claws out
[11:02 SLT] Jack Linden: there we go
[11:02 SLT] Jack Linden shouts: Jack's office hour is held in the Lobby (for those up in his office)!
[11:02 SLT] Uni Ninetails: god help you jack
[11:02 SLT] Mosley Sperber: heh
[11:02 SLT] Ciaran Laval: noobs
[11:02 SLT] Jack Linden: crude but effective!
[11:02 SLT] Moon Corrigible: You're a brave, brave man Jack
[11:02 SLT] Talarus Luan: Aww... now you've done it! :P
[11:02 SLT] Dytska Vieria: THis is going to be good!
[11:02 SLT] Lindin Lindman shouts: Thanks Jack! *Laughs*
[11:02 SLT] Yohan Pintens: just godlike teleport them here Jack
[11:02 SLT] Tegg Bode: Lol, they may have been up there for half the meeting if you hadn't said anything ?
[11:02 SLT] Erinyse Planer shrugs and waits
[11:03 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Better sit down for when the pushing starts
[11:03 SLT] Talarus Luan: Anyone pushes me, they get et
[11:03 SLT] Uni Ninetails: zomg dont takes away the prim wangs... XD
[11:03 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: Where's the other bookend, Tal?
[11:03 SLT] Moon Corrigible: Tempt not the dragon! ... for you are crunchy and good with ketchup!
[11:03 SLT] Jack Linden: if i sit on anyone, please accept my apologies
[11:03 SLT] xstorm Radek: *GIGGLES* :)Elanthius Flagstaff 20:23, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
[11:03 SLT] Wildefire Walcott: ao off
[11:03 SLT] Erinyse Planer: jack ild like to im you about something that i dont want public if i may?
[11:03 SLT] Ciaran Laval: That old excuse
[11:04 SLT] Lindin Lindman: Thanks Jack, we saw your sign and thought you were away
[11:04 SLT] xstorm Radek: Xantarius Cain your way to late put it away your side lost
[11:04 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: Wildefire! Hi, is Jill Winger!
[11:04 SLT] Yohan Pintens: he just wanted to sit on Timos lap
[11:04 SLT] Erinyse Planer: xstorm please stop being dsiruptive
[11:04 SLT] Wildefire Walcott: oh hey jill!
[11:04 SLT] Jack Linden: i need to get that glass sign fixed up there, never seem to get around to it hehe
[11:04 SLT] Dytska Vieria: Dementor Neiro, please get off me!
[11:04 SLT] Ciaran Laval: Oh good grief it's a protest
[11:05 SLT] Talarus Luan: So? That's what we do here every week, Pinky. :P
[11:05 SLT] Couldbe Yue: you probably also need to fix the "corsica, coming soon" sign too
[11:05 SLT] Dementor Neiro: sorry
[11:05 SLT] xstorm Radek: and a bunch of people holding up silly prims is not ?
[11:05 SLT] Tegg Bode: lol
[11:05 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen grins and bounces a little
[11:05 SLT] Uni Ninetails: adult ghetto... its 300 sims :)
[11:05 SLT] Jack Linden: okay, so thanks to everyone for coming along.. great to see some new faces here. who has someone they'd like to discuss?
[11:05 SLT] xstorm Radek: they look like a bunch of noobs
[11:05 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Oh a protest?1?! Wellthat changes everything! AO is cancelled!
[11:05 SLT] Qie Niangao holds up silly prims every time he puts on his hair
[11:06 SLT] Yohan Pintens: hahaha
[11:06 SLT] Jack Linden: welcome back Tal
[11:06 SLT] Talarus Luan: You'll cancel my AO when you detach it from my cold, dead attachment point. :D
[11:06 SLT] Mosley Sperber: I'd like to hear an update on how the microparcel extortion and hte traffic bot situations are progressing :)
[11:06 SLT] Mosley Sperber: (To ask something not related to adult content for a start :))
[11:06 SLT] Jack Linden: hey mosley
[11:06 SLT] Wildefire Walcott: I have 2 related questions. 1) Why does LL allow the transfer of $195 tier of grandfathered class 5 sims? And 2) When is LL going to raise the prices of grandfathered class 5s so all class 5 owners are for once on a level playing field?
[11:06 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Agreed Msley, very slow progess, especialy on the bot front.
[11:06 SLT] Erinyse Planer: xstorm and elan please stp heckling the protestors.
[11:07 SLT] Tegg Bode: Have you got anything to say Jack before the torches get lit? ?
[11:07 SLT] Talarus Luan: Good choice, Mosley. :D
[11:07 SLT] Ciaran Laval: I agree with Wildefire's number 1 question for sure
[11:07 SLT] Jack Linden: the micro-parcel count is still in decline. actually, if you give me a sec i can upload a graph..
[11:07 SLT] xstorm Radek: oh by the way Adult is AC for short you missed the last 3 meetings
[11:08 SLT] Wildefire Walcott: (well question one is having a big impact on question 2, ciaran)
[11:08 SLT] Qie Niangao: ooo. business graphics!
[11:08 SLT] Xantarius Cain: Hello, Jack. We've come here today to express our concern over the proposed adult content changes, specifically, filtering of adult content and the forced move from the mainland to a new continent of all adult content.
[11:08 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Why not hand everyone a PDF in world? Oh, right.
[11:08 SLT] Ciaran Laval: lol
[11:09 SLT] xstorm Radek: thats great new
[11:09 SLT] Jack Linden: okay, there we go. so as you can see things are speeding up as the number of 16s for sale drops off
[11:09 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Uh, where?
[11:09 SLT] xstorm Radek: thats great news that 16m is now down
[11:09 SLT] Yohan Pintens: for sale or total count of 16m2s?
[11:09 SLT] Mosley Sperber: up there, Elan :)
[11:09 SLT] Timo Daehlie: i see the same people still cutting ..
[11:09 SLT] Dytska Vieria wants one
[11:09 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Uh, I'll look later
[11:09 SLT] Ciaran Laval: Not by me they ain't
[11:10 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: It's jut for ale 16s, right?
[11:10 SLT] Erinyse Planer: total count of those for sale...
[11:10 SLT] Moon Corrigible: Yup just for sale
[11:10 SLT] Jack Linden: this chart is just 16s yes, but the same is true for 32s
[11:10 SLT] Mari Moonbeam: on the gray cube?
[11:10 SLT] Couldbe Yue: so you've only managed to get rid og 1/4 of them in 3 months? what's the holdup?
[11:10 SLT] Jack Linden: Mari, is should rez for you soon
[11:10 SLT] Mosley Sperber: yeah, it shows a decline from 2/15 at over 16k, to 5/3 at below 11k
[11:10 SLT] Mosley Sperber: (for the "count of 16m mainland parcels for sale")
[11:11 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: It was 12k last wek though, right?
[11:11 SLT] Talarus Luan: It's a decline, but at this rate, it will be 2 years before it gets down under 2000
[11:11 SLT] Mavromichali Szondi waits for rez
[11:11 SLT] Mosley Sperber: Right, Elanthius, according to the graph
[11:12 SLT] Jack Linden: As for the traffic bot issue, the worst case ones are being dealt with now as we started enforcement last week
[11:12 SLT] Couldbe Yue: it would take less than a morning to create a job that looks for parcels 16m and priced over say 5L per metre.. (10 even if you want to be generous) run then and reclaim them
[11:12 SLT] Dytska Vieria: This is the best lag I have seen in a while!
[11:12 SLT] Yohan Pintens: hey baby whats your sign?
[11:12 SLT] Erinyse Planer: dytskja and yhan please put the batiing signs away. please do not bait those you disagree with
[11:12 SLT] Uni Ninetails: LMAO
[11:12 SLT] Jack Linden: We're going to post to the blog again to clarify about camping chairs
[11:12 SLT] Jack Linden: As there's a lot of confusion around those
[11:12 SLT] Talarus Luan: Clarify?
[11:12 SLT] Talarus Luan: What's the word?
[11:12 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Can you give us a preview?
[11:12 SLT] Xantarius Cain: Jack, will someone be assigned to the JIRA ticket regarding the adult content changes? http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-2727
[11:13 SLT] Jack Linden: Tal, it will never get down to 2k because many 16m parcel sales are completely reasonable. We're tackling the huge micro-parcel dealers not the selling of small parcels
[11:13 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Do you have a target then?
[11:13 SLT] Talarus Luan: Really? I've yet to see a "reasonable" microparcel sale.
[11:13 SLT] Mosley Sperber: At least Primlands is still out and about at IIRC 1495 per parcel ... they're certainly huge and certainly not reasonable ..
[11:13 SLT] Jack Linden: Xantarius, the Adult content project is being run by a separate team, I'm only involved in the migration part
[11:13 SLT] Jack Linden: So I don't know
[11:13 SLT] Ciaran Laval: So is that why a pacel for sale by me that went on the market for L$9900 after the new policy is allowed? They're not a big group?
[11:14 SLT] Uni Ninetails mumbles "could have textured the back of yer protest signs...
[11:14 SLT] Talarus Luan: If any of the ones near me are any measure, anyway... $995, $2995, $3000, $9900, etc
[11:14 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: How are you quantifying success?
[11:14 SLT] Couldbe Yue: cyn tells us you're the man though
[11:14 SLT] Xantarius Cain: In that case...Regarding the migration, Jack... what will happen to those who refuse to move?
[11:14 SLT] Couldbe Yue: so who is right?
[11:14 SLT] Dytska Vieria: Well, at least the graph shows a desired tendancy
[11:14 SLT] Xantarius Cain: I know this question has been asked before...but no answer was given.
[11:15 SLT] Yohan Pintens: Trust no one
[11:15 SLT] Jack Linden: Elanthius, the data looks to show that at around 6k we'd have removed the top 10 micro parcel dealers
[11:15 SLT] Jack Linden: I believe
[11:15 SLT] Thopel Grigorovich: Mister Linden, for the benefit of people you have moved to other land because there sim was changing rating in a near futur
[11:15 SLT] Tegg Bode: I think they look more realistic with the pywood backs ?
[11:15 SLT] Jack Linden: The ones below those hold far less
[11:15 SLT] Thopel Grigorovich: will the Linden compansate the cost on the moving
[11:15 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Sorry, I can't see the graph. It takes me ten minutes just to move my camera and even then it ends up in some random direction
[11:15 SLT] Thopel Grigorovich: cost me 300L a week because i moved to another land
[11:16 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: LOLOL 300L a week? Everyone who is oced to move gets double their land for free.
[11:16 SLT] Talarus Luan: Well, that you can figure, anyway. What about the ones that use disposable alts to buy and cut the basic 512sqm? It is highly suspected that they are all the same person.
[11:16 SLT] Jack Linden: Couldbe, I'm involved with the Land part as I said, but not the policy discussions in Jira and the forums. But I'm happy to talk about the Land aspects
[11:16 SLT] Xantarius Cain: Also, Jack...who is our contact for the project, overall. In other words, who can we contact, or whose office hour can we attend, who will be abe to address the adult content changes fully?
[11:16 SLT] Erinyse Planer shrugs. "Im not moving, none of the businesses on the sim im on are moving. if LL wants to move the sim... we're ok with that..
[11:16 SLT] Ciaran Laval: Grandfather private land in for a fair bit longer than mainland then Jack :)
[11:17 SLT] Jack Linden: Tal, we have good data there. It all adds up to the size of the market so we're not missing anyone
[11:17 SLT] Thopel Grigorovich: MisterLinden to who should i address my complaint then.
[11:17 SLT] Couldbe Yue: ok. then 1. have you set a window for the move 2. have you a date to open the move list 3. will we be able to increase land holdings as part of the move by buying directly from you as part of the changeover
[11:17 SLT] Talarus Luan: Well, just sayin' they aren't going to be in your "top ten", but they are likely as big as many of them who are in it.
[11:17 SLT] Couldbe Yue: and of course if yes 4. how much will the land be per sq m
[11:17 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Can we g back to Wildefire's question. I'm extremely interested in when you'll finally stop grandfathering $195 estates
[11:18 SLT] samatha Congrejo: Jack i tihnk the point everyone is getting at is no one is answering the questions, they all say i an not involved, i don't handle that, i don't know, we will get bakc to you, no one will answer the serious ladn issue questions
[11:18 SLT] Erinyse Planer: hopefully never.
[11:18 SLT] Crickett Booker: anyone else get knocked out?
[11:18 SLT] Reparata Nightfire: Yes Mr. Linden, to whom should we address our complaint about the Adult Contenet Filtering?
[11:18 SLT] Jack Linden: I believe Blondin is doing most of the communications directly
[11:18 SLT] Crickett Booker: i got kicked so hard my butt hurts
[11:18 SLT] Talarus Luan: not
[11:18 SLT] Ciaran Laval: Well the reason for grandfathered status on transfer has surely long passed its sell by date
[11:18 SLT] Jack Linden: He has regular office hours too i think
[11:18 SLT] samatha Congrejo: He is not communicationg, he ignores most serious questions
[11:18 SLT] Xantarius Cain: So then you'd suggest that we deal directly with Blondin?
[11:19 SLT] Talarus Luan: Well, try to, anyway.
[11:19 SLT] samatha Congrejo: we just spent an hour last night with him telling us nothing and ignoring most questions
[11:19 SLT] Kara Spengler: Blondin is giving us the same old PR spin, not communicating
[11:19 SLT] Mavromichali Szondi: yah, hyu ken all perheps attend other meetink see how dot goes eh.
[11:19 SLT] Talarus Luan: Yep, that's Blondin
[11:19 SLT] Jack Linden: Elanthius, we've no plans to change the grandfathering on 195 regions
[11:19 SLT] Kira Welty: How about the Physical address for Blondin's RL office in Boston?
[11:19 SLT] Couldbe Yue: and I also need a swap to some pg land as part of the move. how are you going to accomplish this?
[11:19 SLT] Xantarius Cain: We've been hearing the same thing, Kara.
[11:19 SLT] Danielle Eber: Answering once per 500 forum posts is not communicating very well
[11:19 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Gah, you're killing me Jack
[11:19 SLT] samatha Congrejo: everyone points to Blondie and Blondie ignores the questions
[11:19 SLT] Wildefire Walcott: But why do you allow the transfer of grandfathered tier to other players? There is ZERO technical reason to allow that.
[11:20 SLT] Xantarius Cain: and closing a forum thread doesn't help either
[11:20 SLT] Jack Linden: :) sorry Elanthius.
[11:20 SLT] Talarus Luan: About as useful as mammaries on a male mammal, he is.
[11:20 SLT] samatha Congrejo: even if he said no or we don't care or we are going to do nothing that is better than ignoring us
[11:20 SLT] Wildefire Walcott: Transferring a class 4 i can understand, but the class 5s?
[11:20 SLT] Moon Corrigible: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Hanley/205/218/25/?
[11:20 SLT] Equinox Pinion: and why dont you change the 195usd tier...i am they get teh same as the ones who pay 295
[11:20 SLT] Moon Corrigible: Sorry that was Blondin's office for all the good it does: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Hanley/205/218/25/?
[11:20 SLT] Moon Corrigible: OH RL - doh! So sorry Kira!
[11:21 SLT] Erinyse Planer: jack i have a question about exectution of land movements. for mainland sims almsot totally owned by adult businesses such as cicero... why not move the entire sim?
[11:21 SLT] Jack Linden: The grandfathering was done as a recognition of those early adopters, and as it stands we are not changing that any time soon
[11:21 SLT] Storyof Oh: when wil you let the entire population know about land changes and land impact of AO? also those countries where English isnt mother tongue?
[11:21 SLT] Jack Linden: Erinyse, that's a possibility definitely
[11:21 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: AC! Or the U-boat?
[11:22 SLT] Uni Ninetails: Thought you said that was a landscaping nightmare last time that was asked jack
[11:22 SLT] Ciaran Laval: Jack the point we're making is that the early adopters have a deal fine, buy do people who get islands transferred to them get that same deal? The reason for grandfathering disappears on transfer
[11:22 SLT] Xantarius Cain: I think the real issue, Jack, above all else, is that (1) Linden Lab doesn't communicate with the resident community well on some topics. The adult content changes is such a topic. (2) We are referred to this one or that one, but again, communication is poor. (3) No Linden employee has been assigned to the JIRA ticket, causing us to believe that you have no intention of addressing our concerns.
[11:22 SLT] Wildefire Walcott: They are not early adopters; most of them are younger than I am.
[11:22 SLT] Erinyse Planer: could you look into that? i own a 2048 and a 1024 and two clubs there make up most of the rest of that sim
[11:22 SLT] samatha Congrejo: POint is Jack your Lindens are all passing the buck or ignoring us and people are starting to leave now, sales are donw.. Dari left, a major maker, others are leaving, many have stopped creating and still no linden will stpe forward and actually answer questions, negative answers are better than being ignored
[11:22 SLT] Xantarius Cain: Talarus is correct.
[11:23 SLT] Moon Corrigible: I dont know if you care but I got an invite to a new adult content mall this week that was on the mainland - the owner had never heard of Urusula or Adult filtering and English seemed to be his first language
[11:23 SLT] Jack Linden: Uni, it's a nightmare if the region is mixed use or if we try to squash it into the adult continent. But if it's about spinning someone who owns all or almost all of a region into an island, we can do that
[11:23 SLT] Ciaran Laval: I mean they've saved what now, over two and half grand in tier fees and then they get a premium on selling their island because grandfathered status remains on transfer
[11:23 SLT] Xantarius Cain: These changes are a train wreck, but not just because we disagree with them. They are a mess because LL hasn't communicated properly (or much at all) about massive changes. They seem to not know what they are doing themselves...are they making it up as they go along?
[11:23 SLT] Jack Linden: Putting a differently terraformed mainland region into the middle of the adult continent wouldn't work
[11:23 SLT] Crickett Booker: Sir, i have a question i would llike clarified please?
[11:23 SLT] Wildefire Walcott: I could literally buy a nice RL car for the extra amount of money I've paid for my full tier class 5s that my competitors, who bought their grandfathered class 5s from the original purchasers now get to pocket.
[11:23 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Ciaran: Yeah, it's making business very difficult for those of us not lucky enough to have dozens of super cheap sims. How can we compete with these guys?
[11:24 SLT] Reparata Nightfire: If thie issue of Adult Content Filtering isn't properly addressed by the Lindens, then I will be leaving Second Life and taking my virtual business elsewhere.
[11:24 SLT] Talarus Luan: That's Blondin's job. To be to focus of resident questions, concerns, and ire over the Adult Content train wreck, and to continue to ignore the residents.
[11:24 SLT] Erinyse Planer: what if you bounces such sims to the edge of it or into their own cluster jack? Im not trying to be a pain, but i think doing so would save both LL and reidents $$
[11:24 SLT] Thopel Grigorovich: Mr Linden many people i know are french and never heard of your project do you intend to translate for those people not to mantion other people of other foreigne languages
[11:24 SLT] Talarus Luan: You and a LOT of other people, Reparata. :-/
[11:24 SLT] Crickett Booker: For those businesses that are adult and communities which arent necessarily adult will all of the persons holdings be moved or just the adult portions?
[11:25 SLT] Reparata Nightfire: I've already opened an account on the 3rd Rock Grid
[11:25 SLT] Tegg Bode: Can I have al your stuff? ?
[11:25 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: I'll buy your land for L$2/sm
[11:25 SLT] Timo Daehlie: 2.1
[11:25 SLT] Wildefire Walcott: =)
[11:25 SLT] Jack Linden: Erinyse, it would look pretty awful if we did that. repairing that terrain when it is covered in builds would be almost impossible
[11:25 SLT] Couldbe Yue: and can you confirm that each parcel you hold doesn't have to contain adult content, just that you meet the criteria and can move up to your current holdings
[11:26 SLT] Chaley May: 2.2
[11:26 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Fine, how about a rac to see who can buy it fastest?
[11:26 SLT] Talarus Luan: Bid war! :P
[11:26 SLT] Couldbe Yue: well, mainland is only +- 20m isn't it? so it's not going to be that much of a sore thumb
[11:26 SLT] xstorm Radek: ok for all you people going to drop out me and the rest of us sim owners will take all your stuff for free
[11:26 SLT] Jack Linden: I believe there is much more communication planned for when the definitions are finalized, including Message Of The Day etc
[11:26 SLT] Erinyse Planer: honestly we dont care what it looks like we jsut arent going to move unless the sim is. we have way too much invested
[11:26 SLT] Talarus Luan: Most mainland is +-4m
[11:26 SLT] Mavromichali Szondi heff to run to a meetink in RL dot iz ectually important. Goot day to hyu all.
[11:26 SLT] Qie Niangao: careful, barons: it's probably Mature land... can't even advertise PG stuff there after this.
[11:26 SLT] Tegg Bode: 1.5 and it's my final offer ! ?
[11:26 SLT] Couldbe Yue: then where's the problem
[11:26 SLT] samatha Congrejo: wonderful, we complain about getting ignored and get ignored, i am out of here
[11:27 SLT] Xantarius Cain: Jack: The number of man hours involved in a move... will there be any compensation for the time you are requiring of those you will be moving?
[11:27 SLT] Ciaran Laval: Oh yes you can Qie, in the classifieds tab
[11:27 SLT] Dytska Vieria: I will give you a special price for sim-in-a-box
[11:27 SLT] Kira Welty: Jack can you give any reason to be optimistic about these changes at all, that LL actually cares about its current residents?
[11:27 SLT] Crickett Booker: Sir, May i have an answer to my question please?
[11:27 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: +/-4 on mainland mostly
[11:27 SLT] Jack Linden: Couldbe, the idea here is to move the adult content, not move the land as such. If you own 20 parcels and one of them has an established business that is Adult in nature, then I don't think we would move all 20
[11:27 SLT] Jack Linden: But we'll be as fair and reasonable as we can, and be working with people to help them relocate
[11:27 SLT] Couldbe Yue: that's not what was said previously
[11:27 SLT] Qie Niangao: oh, thanks Ciaran... I haven't got my head around classified in Classified vs classified in All, yet.
[11:27 SLT] Thopel Grigorovich: well the change are coming fast you better move quickly on this mister Linden cause what you see here is not even close that what will happen when those people will realised how they have been treated
[11:27 SLT] Couldbe Yue: it was up to your current holdings
[11:27 SLT] Crickett Booker: what of the smaller business owner
[11:27 SLT] Chaley May: LindenLabs are terrible for getting detailed information out there. They always bury it where noone can find it
[11:28 SLT] Thopel Grigorovich: 2 class citizen
[11:28 SLT] Chaley May: with wording noone can make sense of
[11:28 SLT] Couldbe Yue: doesn't bother me, I can put my shops on everything I own
[11:28 SLT] Couldbe Yue: but it seems pointless
[11:28 SLT] Crickett Booker: say they own 1/2 a sim and a couple of them arent attached since they bought it piece by piece?
[11:28 SLT] Jack Linden: Samatha, no-one is ignoring you, I have IMs, notecards and open chat to answer. .and that means I do miss people
[11:28 SLT] Storyof Oh: MrLinden what is the other 19 parcels are contributing their prims to the one adult parcel?
[11:28 SLT] Firehorse Rearwin: the proposed regulations are so subjective it's frightening when one considers the implications
[11:28 SLT] Erinyse Planer: jack what about the feeral court case that ruled ghettoization was discrimination? i believe it was in 6th circut?
[11:28 SLT] Talarus Luan: Still wondering how we're going to be compensated for the loss of our ability to use our land for adult content, when it was part of the value and intention of buying the land in the first place.
[11:28 SLT] Erinyse Planer: *federal
[11:29 SLT] Xantarius Cain: Jack, forgive me for saying this, but it seems to me that Linden Lab has decided to make massive changes to people's businesses... but you don't have all the answers yet. Why announce these changes and do what feels like a rushed implementation when you don't have the answers to what seem like obvious questions?
[11:29 SLT] Mari Moonbeam: Seems to me that a comphrensive series of answers to a myriad of questions and concerns is needed and should be done by, no offense Jack , the final yea/nay sayer of LL. This drawn out process is hurting folks-land sales, and store sales--limbo isn't good, Peopel don't have to be here in SL-they want to be-but they just need the Rules of the Rad to make adjsutements and build and sell and live here. Assuming the "little guy/gal" is still wanted
[11:29 SLT] Mari Moonbeam: Road*
[11:29 SLT] Erinyse Planer: xantarius... to be fair... LL is getting pressure from the FCC and a few ultra conservative congressional leaders
[11:29 SLT] Jack Linden: Crickett, as I've said before we would have to look at each situation. This is going to be a discussion but we are committed to being fair with all those affacted
[11:29 SLT] Jack Linden: *affected
[11:30 SLT] Xantarius Cain: Jack, this feels like there is no one managing the project at a high level. Do you have a project manager on this, or is each group handling parts independently of the other groups?
[11:30 SLT] Talarus Luan: Honestly, folks, if you really want to hit the people who are in control, talk to Cyn, then to M.
[11:30 SLT] Couldbe Yue: cyn doesn't have office hours - well not that I know of
[11:30 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Xantarius/Mari: I always wonder about that. Wold you rather not hear about it until a week befre it is implemented or hear a few months early when the plans aren't complete?
[11:30 SLT] Erinyse Planer: also call your congress man and tell them fcc has no business regulating the internet
[11:30 SLT] Ethereal Clarity: i wouldnt call Congress 'a few'
[11:30 SLT] Dytska Vieria: Or write an open letter...
[11:30 SLT] Ciaran Laval: Yeah Jack isn't on the policy making process for this, although I stiull think he should be making more of a case for mixed use islands
[11:30 SLT] McCall Ryder: Jack, It would sure help your users if you had a good writer talking plain language instead of programmese. "Pathcut" isn't English, "Cut outward from center" is.
[11:30 SLT] Talarus Luan: M is where the buck stops, unless you want to send mail (regular snail mail) protests to Mitch Kapor himself.
[11:30 SLT] Kara Spengler: Erinyse: well, according to Blondin yesterday this is just LL being inept internally and nothing is coming from outside pressure :)
[11:30 SLT] Mosley Sperber: Yeah, Cyn doesn't seem to have office hours. I'd have a word to say there about the darn word filter :(
[11:30 SLT] Phideaux Mayo: The Congressional Bill is buried
[11:30 SLT] Storyof Oh: i suspect LL had no real idea of 80% of the difficulties and scenarios coming their way n this issue...but they know now
[11:30 SLT] Jack Linden: Xantarius. that's a common question and all i can say is that given the two options of being told early and included in the discussion, or being told late and not being consulted.. every single time people have asked us to talk early
[11:30 SLT] Thopel Grigorovich: Mister Linden is what way that will affect the work of the mentor no having acces to adult rated sim
[11:30 SLT] Talarus Luan: Cyn doesn't have office hours on purpose.
[11:31 SLT] Jack Linden: But that obviously means that not everything is finalized yet
[11:31 SLT] Talarus Luan: Talk "early"? O.o
[11:31 SLT] Crickett Booker: and is it true sir that the property will cost up to 5x's what the current mainland is selling for?
[11:31 SLT] Talarus Luan: A year into the process is hardly "early", Jack.
[11:31 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: How long now and NOTHING is finalized?
[11:31 SLT] Mari Moonbeam: Thanks for teh 16m update Jack-is there more news -info you can share today?
[11:31 SLT] Erinyse Planer: jack you have allot of influence in LL. can you maybe try and get m and cyn to hold some actual meetings with residents?
[11:32 SLT] Jack Linden: McCall, I agree that language is really important.
[11:32 SLT] Xantarius Cain: Jack, no one is saying tell us late... What we're saying is that before you open the discussion, have most common questions/situations thought through. That way, you can give three months or more notice of these massive changes and half the work (for you and us) is done already before notice is even given.
[11:32 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Hey, you skipped talking about the traffic bot policy. How many bots have you banned? Got a graph for us?
[11:32 SLT] Couldbe Yue: neither do the Gteam Talarus - says it all really
[11:32 SLT] Kara Spengler: Jack: well, being told early but not being allowed to give input seems pretty pointless ..... beside, this has been in the works for 18 months according to Blondin
[11:32 SLT] Jack Linden: Erinyse, there have been a number of those brown bag ones etc, but i'll certainly pass that on
[11:33 SLT] Ciaran Laval: Two years ago they first blogged about extreme content and account verification
[11:33 SLT] Baba Yamamoto: [11:32] Erinyse Planer: child avi and disruptive bating in a mature sim. filing an ar
[11:32] Baba Yamamoto: go fuck yourself
[11:33 SLT] Xantarius Cain: The problem is that you said, "We're moving all the adult stuff. no...we don't have details."
[11:33 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: All with "Nothing final" as the answer
[11:33 SLT] Crickett Booker: the brown bags dont feel as though anything gets answered Sir
[11:33 SLT] Tegg Bode: This may be quite early, no dates have ben mentioned, pity if people are quiting and going off the handle 6 months too early
[11:33 SLT] Dytska Vieria: Hey! I got AR'ed by Erinyse Planer too!!
[11:33 SLT] Xantarius Cain: then, when we ask questions, it's not a discussion...it's you and Blondin telling everyone asking that you dont know.
[11:33 SLT] Jack Linden: Kara, how have you tried to give input? We've read all the forum posts and emails and notecards
[11:33 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: The brown bgs are nonsense. A complete insult to everyone's intelligence.
[11:33 SLT] DarkStar Gothly: i simply do not like the term "adult" i thin it is totally subjective. Further, i resent not being trusted to uncheck a mature box, read a sim description and being able to make my own descions.
[11:33 SLT] Couldbe Yue: lol Jack, you really didn't just ask that did you???
[11:33 SLT] Firehorse Rearwin: 18 months to come up with solution least aceptable solution to the most residents
[11:33 SLT] Mosley Sperber: The brown bag meeting transcripts mostly showed me that Lindens don't know how their own search works, sadly :/
[11:34 SLT] Crickett Booker: ive spent hours listening to them and walked away feeling totally at a loss as to explain what i may have learned
[11:34 SLT] DarkStar Gothly: Further, what happens to all of this land that becomes worthless when everone is forced onto LAGG island?
[11:34 SLT] Xantarius Cain: Jack, you know about the JIRA ticket.
[11:34 SLT] Jack Linden: Darkstar, we've said that those terms are not ideal and we are looking for better alternatives. If you have thoughts on that do let us know
[11:34 SLT] Talarus Luan: Jack, people have asked questions repeatedly in the forums and office hours to which LL has never answered
[11:34 SLT] DarkStar Gothly: yes.. PG & Mature..
[11:34 SLT] Xantarius Cain: Jack, we are letting you know. Go read the JIRA ticket.
[11:34 SLT] Moon Corrigible: Jack I gotta call bullshit on that one - both you and Blondin have said you hadnt had time to read all the forum posts
[11:34 SLT] Driftwood Miles: I think people might appreciate a clarification update on the blog Jack and how things stand at the moment :)
[11:34 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: WE HAVE GIVEN THOUHTS FOR WEEKS NOW JACK!
[11:34 SLT] Couldbe Yue: jack, I didn't see you answer my questions on the logistics of the move - there were 4 questions
[11:35 SLT] Xantarius Cain: maybe assign someone to the JIRA ticket
[11:35 SLT] DarkStar Gothly: i think everyone agrees what mature means.. but.. is a Degas considerd Adult?
[11:35 SLT] Xantarius Cain: are you actually telling us that we are not participating i a discussion?
[11:35 SLT] Uni Ninetails: Jack if you catch this: Ursula; Is it old server hardware or all brand new?
[11:35 SLT] Ciaran Laval: An alternative would be to change the mature content checkbox to a PG content checkbox and put the onus of saying a parcel is PG safe on the parcel owner, that would rid PG search of loads of adult terms
[11:35 SLT] Jack Linden: Moon, by (we) I am not meaning just myself or Blondin. We as a company have read al the feedback
[11:35 SLT] Qie Niangao: Jack: any interest in LL for opening some of Ursula early as a site for an SL6B "Fringe Festival"? I'll rent it from you guys for L$1, if that makes it easier, and find some way to organize it.
[11:35 SLT] xstorm Radek: AC Jira was voted to be closed
[11:35 SLT] Jack Linden: There is no way, sadly, that I could have read it all. I would have liked to but you guys write too fast. :)
[11:35 SLT] Chaley May: Ultimately the decision is made by LindenLabs to do whatever they please.. any listening to you is so they can find ways to ease you into it but the plan goes ahead regardless :)
[11:36 SLT] Jack Linden: Uni.. brand new
[11:36 SLT] Kara Spengler: Jack: we have tried through notecards, email, office hours, direct IM conversations, blog and forum posts on secondlife.com and elsewhere .... should we do registered mail instead maybe for communications?
[11:36 SLT] Xantarius Cain: Jack: Have you (or anyone at LL) read the JIRA ticket on the adult content changes?
[11:36 SLT] Talarus Luan: I read it all in less than an hour a day.
[11:36 SLT] Couldbe Yue: it's down to about 4 pages a day now jack
[11:36 SLT] Xantarius Cain: This ticket: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-2727
[11:36 SLT] Jack Linden: Qie.. haha that's an interesting idea!
[11:36 SLT] Xantarius Cain: has anyone at LL read it?
[11:36 SLT] DarkStar Gothly: and all the feedback is this is insane. I would like to know if LL plans to buy my sim for the same $1,000 US dollars we paid for it, because we may have "adult" content?
[11:36 SLT] Uni Ninetails: Jack: Thanks.. so perhaps i could go out on a limb and say "class 6"? Cause your gonna need to make that hardware fairly meaty for all the scripting....
[11:36 SLT] Xantarius Cain: and if so, why has no one been assigned to it?
[11:36 SLT] Erinyse Planer: ok seriously
[11:36 SLT] Qie Niangao: Jack, it could be good marketing, seriously.
[11:36 SLT] Kira Welty: How will you avoid breach of contract if everyone who owns mature land isn't giving the option to swap, regardless of conditions of current land use?
[11:36 SLT] Jack Linden: Xantarius, I know the project team will have. I read most of the longest Jira thread
[11:37 SLT] Xantarius Cain: ok...
[11:37 SLT] Xantarius Cain: so why hasnt anyone been assigned?
[11:37 SLT] Talarus Luan: Kara: I would
[11:37 SLT] Talarus Luan: Certified, RR requeted.
[11:37 SLT] Talarus Luan: *requested
[11:37 SLT] Couldbe Yue: Thanks Kira, you just reminded me of something..
[11:37 SLT] DarkStar Gothly: i think LL should have to buy back the land for the same price we have paid for it.. in REAL US dollars
[11:37 SLT] Talarus Luan: One to Mark Kingdon, one to Mitch Kapor.
[11:38 SLT] Jack Linden: Darkstar are you talking about an Island or Mainland?
[11:38 SLT] Couldbe Yue: Jack, would it be better if we organised a meeting in your office in brighton. a one on one may just clear a lot of this up
[11:38 SLT] Couldbe Yue: I mean rl here of course
[11:38 SLT] DarkStar Gothly: this hasn't even been considered
[11:38 SLT] DarkStar Gothly: the dmage this will do to the SL economy is evastating
[11:38 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: CouldBe: Agreed! I can be there in an hour. You bring the pitchforks
[11:38 SLT] Crickett Booker: Jack, Sir, is it true that you all still believe only 3-5% of SL is adult in nature and that is why you made ursualla too small to accomodate us all or is it that you know we are going to pay what we have to in order to preserve our way of life?
[11:38 SLT] Jack Linden: Couldbe, I'm not based in Brighton
[11:38 SLT] Yohan Pintens: if someone farts it does devastating damage to the SL economy
[11:38 SLT] Jack Linden: Though I could be there potentially.
[11:38 SLT] Couldbe Yue: I thought you were in the UK
[11:38 SLT] Ciaran Laval: I don't think they'd let me carry my pitchfork on the train
[11:39 SLT] Jack Linden: I am in the UK, but not in Brighton
[11:39 SLT] Couldbe Yue: lol Ciaran, I'll carry mine too and we'll see if we can get a porter
[11:39 SLT] Couldbe Yue: well where are you jack? do you remote work or do you have an office somewhere else
[11:39 SLT] DarkStar Gothly: i would revise your econimic predictions downward for the coming year by at least half.. land owners, shop owners.. this is a travesty, and it truy is counter to the spirit of SL in being able to create your own vision, at the end of the day this is cencorship of the highest order.
[11:39 SLT] Couldbe Yue: I'm pretty prepared to travel. England is a small place
[11:39 SLT] Storyof Oh: thanks for working overtime Jack....
[11:39 SLT] Firehorse Rearwin: It'll take me a bit longer to get to Newcastle, but come to Nottingham Jack and it's nice and central - most UK residents could be there in a couple of hours
[11:39 SLT] Jack Linden: Crickett, not quite. We surveyed the Mainland (not Islands, they are different) and found that the number of parcels with clearly adult material was relatively low.
[11:39 SLT] Ethereal Clarity: I have a Popeils pocket Pitchfork
[11:40 SLT] DarkStar Gothly: Further, when i DO encounter someting i find truly ofensive, what i would REALLY like
[11:40 SLT] Jack Linden: I think around 4% or so
[11:40 SLT] DarkStar Gothly: is to not have to try 15 times to tp away
[11:40 SLT] Ciaran Laval: That was fine Jack until keyword search became an issue
[11:40 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Hey Jack, someone who knows many Lindens, an insider, very influential, said at the beginning of this meeting tha LL are considering leaving Homesteads at US$95 a month. Confirm or deny!
[11:40 SLT] Firehorse Rearwin: Clearly adult? As the proposed rules stand, a poster of Bob Marley smoking a spliff is adult!
[11:40 SLT] Ciaran Laval: That's when it all went Pete Tong
[11:40 SLT] Jack Linden: The Ursula continent is not too small, it can expand as far as we want to expand it. But the terrain as prepared is 200-240 regions or so I think. Last time i looked
[11:40 SLT] Talarus Luan: Probably works from his home office. :D
[11:41 SLT] Equinox Pinion: he will not confirm that here elan lol
[11:41 SLT] DarkStar Gothly: it's actually a mainland sim
[11:41 SLT] Couldbe Yue: lol but Darkstar, that's the predicatble user experience.. doesn't work as planned, but supposedly it's what the users want
[11:41 SLT] Jack Linden: But we'l only be putting 50-70 up at first, as we see how it goes
[11:41 SLT] Uni Ninetails: Jack ive seen a number 320 ir so appear :)
[11:41 SLT] Marianne McCann: I saw some offline Ursulas numbered in the 300s yesterday
[11:41 SLT] Storyof Oh: CLEARLY ADULT amybe but then the definition changed from ~EXTREME to all sexual activity.......that s way more than 2-4%
[11:41 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: I need a full one, me, one person
[11:41 SLT] Couldbe Yue: last time you looked??? ***YOU** are supposedly in charge of the land for this mess
[11:41 SLT] Wynochee LeShelle: 399
[11:41 SLT] Jack Linden: Guys, all of you that are IMing me and dropping notecards - I'm just not able to reply to all those while talking to the group, apologies
[11:41 SLT] Couldbe Yue: so Jack, when do you go to brighton or is there an office closer to you where we can meet?
[11:41 SLT] Ciaran Laval: I mean saying this policy isn't about preventing people selling sex beds on mature land and then filtering the word sex to adult only moves the goalposts on extreme content somewhat
[11:41 SLT] Phideaux Mayo: Please give jack a chance to respond
[11:42 SLT] Xantarius Cain: I apologize Jack if you answered this question already (I probably missed your reponse)... What happens to those who do not move? Will you come knocking at their doors? Will you shut them down if they still refuse after you ask them to move? if they refuse to move, and you ask them to move, how long will they have?
[11:42 SLT] DarkStar Gothly: pesonally i find violence far more offensive than sexual content. But, i am curious.. i work in the fashion indistry in sl.. we had a show of a very big, very wel know designer, a lingerie designer.. is that show now considered "adult?"
[11:42 SLT] Jack Linden: Sorry elanthius, didn't see that comment about homesteads fly by, must have missed it
[11:42 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: They claim they will offer a friendly warning
[11:43 SLT] Xantarius Cain: and then what?
[11:43 SLT] Ciaran Laval: It's odds on that homesteads won't go up in price, if gambling were allowed it would be too short priced for me to bother to bet on it
[11:43 SLT] Xantarius Cain: how long will people have to move?
[11:43 SLT] Reparata Nightfire: This whole Adult Content Filtering issue is nothing more than internet censorship, which I absolutely oppose!
[11:43 SLT] Jack Linden: Couldbe... we have a large team that handles this stuff, and they are working on it all the time
[11:43 SLT] Uni Ninetails: Can i hazard a guess theyll kick your ass out and put the parcel on the auction site?
[11:43 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: Oh, let me guess theanswer...THEY DONT KNOW
[11:43 SLT] Tegg Bode: No the people who did move will dob them in of course like gambling clubs did to each other ?
[11:44 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Agreed Reparata, that's why no-one uses facebook or Craigslist anymore
[11:44 SLT] Xantarius Cain: Well... I wish we could say that this has been informative. I'll call a vote and ask if those here protesting think it has been. Anyone?
[11:44 SLT] Phideaux Mayo: Nay
[11:44 SLT] Couldbe Yue: nothing has happened on ursula for a couple of weeks
[11:44 SLT] Firehorse Rearwin: No
[11:44 SLT] Medusa Torok: confused.com
[11:44 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: Hmm, well, Ill throw my question out. What are my assurances I wont be stuck in a sim with an equally popular club that drives us both out of business?
[11:44 SLT] Ciaran Laval: Xantarius you're posing questions to the wrong guy, give him a break
[11:44 SLT] Couldbe Yue: except the trial load of another 150 sims
[11:44 SLT] Reparata Nightfire: It has been nothing but a bunch of doubletalk, Xan
[11:44 SLT] Ethereal Clarity: Very!
[11:45 SLT] ATechwolf Foxclaw: I doubt it. I've allready seen a case of one SINGLE linden tping to a PRIVATE sim, banning about 12 or so accounts, including the sim owner, shutting the sim down with no recourse. The big deal is there was no TOS volaction and no recourse to appieal it. A Lindon cleanly abusing there power for som moral goal..
[11:45 SLT] Jack Linden: Xantarius, I presume that if someone doesn't move their adult business and continues operating it outside of the adult continent, then it'll eventually be dealt with like any other violation
[11:45 SLT] Chaley May: They cant raise the price on Homesteads, they havent advertised that they will increase the price so people have bought them unaware.. they cant lie to people
[11:45 SLT] Ciaran Laval: Chaley they advertised the price rise in November
[11:45 SLT] Walter McAndrews: I remain concerned about a) Lindens ability to contain information even the u.s. government and banks like citcorp can't keep private and
[11:45 SLT] Xantarius Cain: Right, Jack, but how long will they have to move after a warning?
[11:45 SLT] Xantarius Cain: It takes time to move a business, you know?
[11:45 SLT] Erinyse Planer: jack them move the sims with the most adult content. but again... when 6th circut ruled another game couldnt ghetto their adult content do you think sl can?
[11:45 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: Oh, ah, yes *thinks hard about Scarlet Linden's abuse of power
[11:45 SLT] Reparata Nightfire: LL is getting to be just as bad as the US government when it comes to taking away people's rights!
[11:45 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Hmm, I didn't realise everyone was so certain the price wouldn't rise. I've been pretty much banking on it.
[11:46 SLT] Chaley May: Ciaran new people wasnt here in november.. it would have to be advertised with the prices when people buy the island
[11:46 SLT] Equinox Pinion: they can chaley...they can lol
[11:46 SLT] Walter McAndrews: b) what guarantees do the lindens give of this information never being stolen
[11:46 SLT] Jack Linden: remember, that we're not focussing this policy change on every single piece of adult content, it's about the more commercialised, businesses or services that are adult
[11:46 SLT] Ciaran Laval: Well yeah Chaley I asked them to do that through December too, agree with you there
[11:46 SLT] Yohan Pintens: the only guarantee you have is if you sign off now and never come back, the entire problem will then be resolved for you
[11:46 SLT] Firehorse Rearwin: Age verification doesn't work - at least not reliably out of the USA
[11:46 SLT] Walter McAndrews: reparata, that's the third point here too.....
[11:46 SLT] Jack Linden: those are the ones that if they wish to keep advertising and trading in adult goods will need to move
[11:46 SLT] Firehorse Rearwin: Jack *should* know this, being a brit
[11:46 SLT] Kira Welty: [11:36] Kira Welty: How will you avoid breach of contract if everyone who owns mature land isn't giving the option to swap, regardless of conditions of current land use?
[11:46 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: Yes but a hell of a lot of people will be sending in tickets, how can you deny them a swap?
[11:47 SLT] Jack Linden: if as a private individual you have a sex bed in the attic, then this policy won't impact you
[11:47 SLT] Xantarius Cain: age verification doesn't work in the US either. lol
[11:47 SLT] Talarus Luan: There is no such thing as online "age verification".
[11:47 SLT] Tegg Bode: Makes sense to me unsless some one can explain why non-adult businesses need the word sex in their advertising?
[11:47 SLT] Chaley May: LindenLabs seem to have policys which deceive their own customers.. Noone has confidence in them nomore
[11:47 SLT] Storyof Oh: If they ask to move they should get to move?
[11:47 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Do you feel even a little nervous that there might be more swaps than you can comfortably do? More tha 300 sims say.
[11:47 SLT] Storyof Oh: free
[11:47 SLT] Mosley Sperber: Well I can explain to you why PG businesses need the word "tits" in their advertising, Tegg
[11:47 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: A lot of those attic sex people will WANT to move
[11:47 SLT] Crickett Booker: and how can you deny then a swap of all their holdings when you are focing them to move businesses that have been in place for many years?
[11:47 SLT] Marianne McCann: And yet, were all here using the service, Chaley
[11:47 SLT] Uni Ninetails Laughs 2Jack id keep my sex bed in er the BEDROOM not the bloomin attic XD
[11:47 SLT] Walter McAndrews: c) They are requiring the provising of information where not everyone is paying, this means not everyone is subject to a 3rd party obligation for using the service here irrespective of the TOS itself. As long as there is a free player base, SL is imposing a requirement upon the public to have access in the same manner as a government.
[11:47 SLT] Erinyse Planer: jack what about the 6th circut ruling that said online games can't ghetoize adutl content becuase its discrimination?
[11:47 SLT] Walter McAndrews: they haven't such a right
[11:48 SLT] Firehorse Rearwin: it isn't *just* about sex, it's also about art and a host of other things, the sex just get the "moral majority" hot and bothered
[11:48 SLT] Talarus Luan: Link, Erinyse?
[11:48 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: WTFm citation needed Erinyse
[11:48 SLT] Yohan Pintens: Elan they will just fire up the printing presses again and poof out comes another 5 continents for the perverts
[11:48 SLT] Chaley May: Marianne there is no service comparable to it and is maybe why they know they can get away with it
[11:48 SLT] Walter McAndrews: Only if this were a private access such as rotary or odd fellows club, free masons, etc. can they make such impositions on users
[11:48 SLT] Tegg Bode: Ah is the word art banned in advertising too then?
[11:48 SLT] Danielle Eber: Legal questions should be addressed to Marty Linden, general counsel
[11:48 SLT] Uni Ninetails: what about the combat sim? i was having a long discussion with a friend whom own a RP sim havent really thought about it since last night
[11:48 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Yohan: I suppose ,whe land is nearly free to buy and the main income is from tier it's safe to give away as much as you like
[11:48 SLT] Talarus Luan: Wow, they have a server printing machine? I gotta get me one of those! :D
[11:49 SLT] Jack Linden: Elanthius, it's possible that there are way more adult businesses than either the land surveys or the detailed Search data shows but i'm not sure how we'd have missed them if that is true. But if that were the case we would have to extend the timeperiod and add mor bodies to help move people
[11:49 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: Does hehold office hours?
[11:49 SLT] Walter McAndrews: but wehre the users aren't subject to any sort of consideration to constitute an agreement, they are merely tresspassing on privacy rights
[11:49 SLT] Firehorse Rearwin: from the way the proposed rules read, the statue of david would be banned from a pg sim
[11:49 SLT] Danielle Eber: The current KB6010 would prohibit showing a disney cartoon on PG land
[11:49 SLT] Walter McAndrews: Jack do the lindens really want the corporate risk exposure of lawsuits for invasion of privacy?
[11:49 SLT] Chaley May: so nude artworks arent allowed in PG?
[11:49 SLT] Jack Linden: Firehorse, no it wouldn't
[11:50 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Oh Jack, so you're prepared to promise you'll give land t every legitimately adult business? Before there were hints it would be limited to 50 sims or so and then everyone who was too late was just screwed. Or not screwed since it's PG now
[11:50 SLT] Crickett Booker: hahahhaha
[11:50 SLT] Jack Linden: the statue of david isn't an adult oriented service or business operating on the Mainland.
[11:50 SLT] Jack Linden: :)
[11:50 SLT] Reparata Nightfire: LL has opened up a whole pandora's box of issues concerning art, freedom, etc. by pursuing this Adult Content Filtering plan
[11:50 SLT] Ciaran Laval: Erotic art is covered though Jack
[11:50 SLT] Xantarius Cain: what about other nude art, Jack? is this where photorealism comes into play?
[11:50 SLT] Ciaran Laval: Not that I'm saying I find the statue of David erotic
[11:50 SLT] Crickett Booker: as is nudity
[11:50 SLT] Talarus Luan: It is if it is in a pay-to-access museum, or one that advertises something for money
[11:50 SLT] Storyof Oh: sex bed businesses werent part o the original planned move but thy have to goif they want otherwise they can become free sex rooms
[11:50 SLT] Thopel Grigorovich: well if they sell it. It becoe one i think mister Linden
[11:51 SLT] Firehorse Rearwin: having seen the real thing, it's a pretty "photorealistic" portrail of nudity
[11:51 SLT] Jack Linden: Elanthius, we're not limiting it in that way, that wouldn't be fair at all. If someone has a legitimate claim to being in that business then they wil get a free move
[11:51 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Ciaran: It's those enormous hands and feet that do it for me.
[11:51 SLT] Crickett Booker: and how do you not know that photorealisitc is used to describe a certain type of skin?
[11:51 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Jack: Awesome news!
[11:51 SLT] Walter McAndrews: Jack I repeat, why are the lindens taking on this responsibility instead of leaving it to the sim owners themselves, who pay consideration to SL for a sim, where requriments of an adequate means of determining the age and thereby access to their matieral is their responsibility?
[11:51 SLT] Erinyse Planer: how long will the get to set up jack?
[11:51 SLT] Thopel Grigorovich: That meen no more art exibite for the poor little Thopel cause most of them seel there art too
[11:51 SLT] Talarus Luan: Define "legitimate claim".
[11:51 SLT] Couldbe Yue: If David isn't an issue, why did Carl Metropolitan get ARd over something similar?
[11:51 SLT] Erinyse Planer: keep in mind the average business takes between 2 weeks and a month to build
[11:51 SLT] Jack Linden: my understanding is that erotic art, that is clearly art, is not going to have to move
[11:51 SLT] Talarus Luan: See, that is where it gets sticky.
[11:51 SLT] Talarus Luan: Pardon the pun.
[11:52 SLT] Chaley May: Maybe one day they will have rules to ban avatars from wearing a skirt and no underwear :)
[11:52 SLT] DarkStar Gothly: "that is clealr art!!!???""
[11:52 SLT] Mosley Sperber: I think the question was whether erotic art is PG or Mature, Jack, not whether it's adult
[11:52 SLT] Tegg Bode: Is the statue David PG or G or C then?
[11:52 SLT] Echo Underwood: Depends... it "has" been deepmed naughty in the past. Who get's to decide what is "clearly art"?
[11:52 SLT] DarkStar Gothly: and who in the name of GOD makes THAT detrmination
[11:52 SLT] DarkStar Gothly: this is an impossible definition
[11:52 SLT] Jack Linden: Walter, not sure i understand the question
[11:52 SLT] Walter McAndrews: SL should nto be pursuing this against the mass of users but instead solely as an imposition on the sim owners, thus assuring the legitimacy of the sim owners, a smaller group and less likely to bring a class action against the lindens for violations of privacy
[11:52 SLT] Crickett Booker: if so ill be in big trouble chaley
[11:52 SLT] DarkStar Gothly: is mapelthore "Real" aret?
[11:52 SLT] Xantarius Cain: Darkstar asked the question I was typing. lol
[11:52 SLT] Couldbe Yue: Mosley, go bite Jack for me.. he still hasn't answered the questions about the logistics..
[11:52 SLT] Reparata Nightfire: LL is trying to play God, and it's going to v=backfire bigtime on them!
[11:52 SLT] Uni Ninetails: Siighs and so it begins.... that statue is pervy.... AR AR AR
[11:52 SLT] Ciaran Laval: Why can't we all apply for a move? Seriously, plenty of folks would rather be on adult land than mature now even private residence as the goalposts are being moved they're not convinced their private activities won't be denied at a later date and would rather be on account verified land. They thought mature was the adult place
[11:52 SLT] Jack Linden: Couldbe, I have no idea, I'm not familiar with that case
[11:52 SLT] Walter McAndrews: the question is jack
[11:52 SLT] Firehorse Rearwin: and what happens if LL is bought by a fundamentalist religious group?
[11:53 SLT] Storyof Oh: and doesnt clean up SL or make it PREDICTABLE
[11:53 SLT] Walter McAndrews: why do you want the liability exposure?
[11:53 SLT] Walter McAndrews: if you offload taht liability exposure to the sim owners
[11:53 SLT] Couldbe Yue: not that question.. the ones about the move
[11:53 SLT] Marianne McCann: Firehorse - and what if I build a man out of straw?
[11:53 SLT] Walter McAndrews: and thus assure you have fine sim owners
[11:53 SLT] Walter McAndrews: you mitigate any sort of liability issues for sl
[11:53 SLT] Walter McAndrews: and are able to market that as a positive aobut sl
[11:53 SLT] Walter McAndrews: instead of be hit with this negtive of imposition on the entier citizenry
[11:53 SLT] Jack Linden: Firehorse, that is the best question of the day hehe
[11:53 SLT] Walter McAndrews: as though hugo chavez
[11:54 SLT] Talarus Luan: I think they have been already.
[11:54 SLT] Firehorse Rearwin: 60% of residents are not in the USA - jet this *seems* to be about apeasing an american morality which I am assured is a minority, if loud
[11:54 SLT] Erinyse Planer: jack whats to proect business that get looked at by one gteam member and told "youre fine" from having another gteam member come through a month later and deem the same content a violation?
[11:54 SLT] Uni Ninetails: SCientology?
[11:54 SLT] Talarus Luan: Or may be grooming to be bought by one, or IPO. :D
[11:54 SLT] Jack Linden: Walter, in terms of islands that is up to the estate owners. for Mainland the estate owner is us
[11:54 SLT] Walter McAndrews: right jack and
[11:54 SLT] Magnet Homewood: in the last few minutes of this meeting I would like to say I think Jack has really earnt the right to have a cold beer tonight, and I really hope he enjoys it, whatever the outcome of the changes are :)
[11:54 SLT] Erinyse Planer: firehorse. im american, im moderately conservative, and this policy offends me for what its worth.
[11:55 SLT] Walter McAndrews: jack that means you take ont he liability for privacy intrusion if any of these records get lost
[11:55 SLT] Jack Linden: So within our estate, we are putting some separation between commercial adult content and everything else
[11:55 SLT] Tegg Bode: But the US Gov is in the USA with the servers and LL's business offices
[11:55 SLT] DarkStar Gothly: Jack, with all due respect.. the us supreme court has taken on this challenge, what makes LL belive it has the skill, the right, quite frankly to make a dtermination of what constitues "real" a see no real need to change. We are all supposedly 18+ on the main grid. Sims are classified mature and PG, there is a sim description and a mature checkbox.. for the love of God! Trust us as adults to make up our own minds
[11:55 SLT] Talarus Luan: What does being conservative have to do with it? :P
[11:55 SLT] Ciaran Laval: If he'd answer the question on why it's fair to still keep grandfathered status on class 5 sims when they are transferred I'd buy him a beer myself!
[11:55 SLT] Mosley Sperber: Can't really trust them, DarkStar ... but the question remains, why didn't they just enforce those old /current rules
[11:55 SLT] Ethereal Clarity: what does God have to do with it
[11:55 SLT] Walter McAndrews: jack if citibank can lose 35,000,000 records, if the u.s. army and social security can do the same, how can you guarantee there is no privacy infringement by your requests for information from non paying customers?
[11:55 SLT] Jack Linden: Just as on the high street the adult stors have blackened windows, so that only those specifically wanting that content enter.. we are just providing that separation
[11:56 SLT] DarkStar Gothly: if someone wants to avaiod "adult" content leave the mature box unchecked and see 1/10th of what Sl has to offer
[11:56 SLT] Echo Underwood: Might I suggest one point however, LL *is* a US company,and sbject tot the laws of the US and California. One writ from a judgecould shut SL down in ten minutes. The real question is, how far does Linden Labs feel it needs to go to stay on the right side of teh law?
[11:56 SLT] Driftwood Miles: I'll second that Ciaran
[11:56 SLT] Walter McAndrews: jack what guarantee can you give that there will be no 3rd party theft of inforamtion?
[11:56 SLT] Erinyse Planer: uh jack
[11:56 SLT] Xantarius Cain: Jack: What prompted Linden Lab to make these changes? What's the official answer on that?
[11:56 SLT] Erinyse Planer: theres nooo way you can make that analagoy work
[11:56 SLT] Erinyse Planer: sorry
[11:56 SLT] Talarus Luan: The local adult video store here doesn't have "blackened windows".
[11:56 SLT] Erinyse Planer: and agian i ask
[11:56 SLT] Crickett Booker: then why not allow us to monitor ourselves the same way?
[11:56 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Walter: what information? You age verify using payment info, same info you've been giving for years
[11:56 SLT] Walter McAndrews: Jack, no guarantee, you own the liability and if any record whatsoever is stolen I'll see ya in court
[11:56 SLT] Reparata Nightfire: The US law is corrupt anyway. Why would ANYONE want to stay on the "right" side of it?
[11:56 SLT] DarkStar Gothly: What percentage of sims are now classified "mature" and what percentage PG?
[11:56 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: Oh dear oh dear, Jack, if you think this is bad, just wait until its officially announced
[11:56 SLT] Ciaran Laval: That would be parcel level controls and public decency on outside advertising, something I'm very much in favour of
[11:56 SLT] Storyof Oh: omg define whats commercial and what isnt now...
[11:57 SLT] Jack Linden: Darkstar, that age issue isn't the point here. many 18 year olds and older do not want to see that material and if they do, they would prefer to see it when they choose to, not when their neighbour wants them to
[11:57 SLT] Tegg Bode: Any idea if they will fix the verification system so I can't verify disposable alts with random numbers and addresses?
[11:57 SLT] Erinyse Planer: whats to protect us from having one gteam member say our business is fine and another from banning us for a violation?
[11:57 SLT] Wynochee LeShelle: no black windows where i live, Jack:-)
[11:57 SLT] Talarus Luan: Doesn't have many windows to begin with (too many people want to break in and steal stuff rather than pay for it), but what windows it has aren't blackened.
[11:57 SLT] Erinyse Planer: jack... not many
[11:57 SLT] Erinyse Planer: a FEW
[11:57 SLT] DarkStar Gothly: you are focsued on sexually oriented issues.. violence, gore.. fine
[11:57 SLT] Jack Linden: Darkstar, traditionally I think around 15% of regions were set to PG on the Mainland
[11:57 SLT] Erinyse Planer: and those are the same ones that go tping to adult businesses and whining
[11:57 SLT] Walter McAndrews: so if it's not an age issue then why require identifying information that can be stolen and use to compare against other databases? Do you really believe linden labs operates in a vacuum?
[11:57 SLT] Danielle Eber: Mainland is about 70% Mature
[11:57 SLT] Mosley Sperber: I, for example. Which is why I bought PG land. Why would I expect anyone on mature land not to show adult content?
[11:57 SLT] Chaley May: Lindens have all the bases covered.. They dont care if some of you leave or abandon lands.. This just means another quick profit when they resell it
[11:57 SLT] Firehorse Rearwin: LL have said this move is to please a minority of residents, so WHY?
[11:58 SLT] Opensource Obscure: windows are blackened here. we're doing daily riots about this here.
[11:58 SLT] Firehorse Rearwin: Why ignore the majority
[11:58 SLT] Xantarius Cain: Jack, if they don't want to see this sort of material...can't they just go PG? Why have mature land if you don't want to see mature things? you guys are inventing problems that don't exist. Move the small minority of people who don't want to see mature/adult content, not the rest of us.
[11:58 SLT] Jack Linden: :) Wynochee
[11:58 SLT] DarkStar Gothly: OK.. if 70% mature.. what does that tell you?
[11:58 SLT] Mosley Sperber: (Of course being on PG land never protected me either, since it was rarely enforced.)
[11:58 SLT] Jack Linden: Walter, it cannot be stolen, that isn't true. We don't keep that data
[11:58 SLT] Jack Linden: We check, then we discard it
[11:58 SLT] Erinyse Planer: jack
[11:58 SLT] Erinyse Planer: it WAS stolen
[11:58 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: I cant frigging wait until LL announces this! *she shouts quietly
[11:58 SLT] Erinyse Planer: from yoru verifyer
[11:58 SLT] Erinyse Planer: and it was SOLD
[11:58 SLT] Erinyse Planer: by your verifyer
[11:58 SLT] Couldbe Yue: [11:17] Couldbe Yue: ok. then 1. have you set a window for the move 2. have you a date to open the move list 3. will we be able to increase land holdings as part of the move by buying directly from you as part of the changeover
[11:17] Couldbe Yue: and of course if yes 4. how much will the land be per sq m
[11:19] Couldbe Yue: and I also need a swap to some pg land as part of the move. how are you going to accomplish this?
[11:59 SLT] Thopel Grigorovich: Yeah on many time in survey i complain about the lack of inforcement in PG land
[11:59 SLT] ATechwolf Foxclaw: I can say fuck here due to sim setting is mature, but I can expose a breast? (If i was female)
[11:59 SLT] Jack Linden: Xantarius, because PG land is totallyintermingled with Mature land on the Mainland
[11:59 SLT] Timo Daehlie: just move ...
[11:59 SLT] ATechwolf Foxclaw: can'=can't
[11:59 SLT] Walter McAndrews: jack, just do not require identifying information of public users, free users, you'll be violating our privacy because it is an unnecessary gathering of private information, meaning, I derive no benefit from you taking my information, nothing of mine is protected.
[11:59 SLT] Erinyse Planer: so jack why not make a pg contentinet instead?
[11:59 SLT] Erinyse Planer: cheaper
[11:59 SLT] Erinyse Planer: easier
[11:59 SLT] Jack Linden: Atechwolf, yes you could, this is a mature region
[11:59 SLT] Xantarius Cain: Right, Jack...so why don't you create a 'G' continent?
[12:00 SLT] Storyof Oh: much easier
[12:00 SLT] Jack Linden: though might not be ideal for an office hour
[12:00 SLT] Jack Linden: :)
[12:00 SLT] Yohan Pintens: because disney is not the problem
[12:00 SLT] Walter McAndrews: aside from the fact jack that many people feel the ss number is the "mark of the beast" the same people you say dont' want to see adult material, and they will not use any portion of that number
[12:00 SLT] Kira Welty: Why do you insist on keeping unverified access to Mature regions?
[12:00 SLT] Danielle Eber: Breakdown of current regions by Ownership and Classification:
* Estate - Adult: 1
* Estate - Mature: 17955
* Estate - Offline: 8
* Estate - PG: 3441
* Linden - Adult: 7
* Linden - Mature: 3982
* Linden - PG: 1421
[12:00 SLT] Ethereal Clarity: that would be like segregating a city & letting a smutty red light district take over.... not going to happen
[12:00 SLT] DarkStar Gothly: i mean if 0% of mainland it mature, private sims must be even higher, therefore it stands to reason that a majority, a fra greater majority of residents "tolerate" mature content
[12:00 SLT] Opensource Obscure: <insert epic facepalm here>
[12:00 SLT] Storyof Oh: PG continent easier than hiding adult on mainland
[12:00 SLT] Walter McAndrews: see jack it's their right to their sincerely held religious beliefs, and you'd be requireing them to violat them by providing such identifying information to you
[12:01 SLT] Walter McAndrews: sorry you are
[12:01 SLT] Erinyse Planer: jack
[12:01 SLT] Tegg Bode: The benefit of verifying is supposed to be knowing that real people are respossible for an accounts actions, tht they are not disposible alts
[12:01 SLT] Walter McAndrews: you cannot guarantee every cache is empty in between
[12:01 SLT] Walter McAndrews: every router
[12:01 SLT] Jack Linden: Walter, we are not gathering information, no part of it is kept. we're asking only for that check *if* you choose to view that adult content
[12:01 SLT] Walter McAndrews: every access
[12:01 SLT] Erinyse Planer: a police officer was kileld becuase your verifying company SOLD her information
[12:01 SLT] Driftwood Miles: age verification is being forced into law in the uk.
[12:01 SLT] Walter McAndrews: so please don't tell me you aren't gathering information
[12:01 SLT] Ciaran Laval: Whoa
[12:01 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen bounces gellfully, "oh oh oh and the MOVE team gets to hear all of this over and over and over and over !
[12:01 SLT] Erinyse Planer: you cannot at all guarantee they wont sell anyone elses
[12:01 SLT] Xantarius Cain: Jack, you are saying that a small minority of people wanted this. Fine. Create a new continent for them. Why do this to businesses that are already established? This is massive. It's a lot of work you don't need to be doing, and a lot of headache the business owners don't need. The reason question is this: are you doing this because you are merging the TEEN GRID into the adult grid????
[12:01 SLT] Mosley Sperber: The adult verification also still won'T work for everyone (it still won't verify me with my correct and truthful info)
[12:01 SLT] Ciaran Laval: behave yourselves here
[12:01 SLT] Ethereal Clarity: *epic eye roll*
[12:02 SLT] Timo Daehlie: lol
[12:02 SLT] Talarus Luan wonders what an "epic" facepalm would look like, and wonders if it will be repeatable enough for the coming months. :P
[12:02 SLT] Walter McAndrews: listen to erinyse jack?
[12:02 SLT] Jack Linden: Walter, if they don't wish to verify then they can enjoy the many thousands of regions that are not adult, as much as they wish
[12:02 SLT] Walter McAndrews: do you hear tht one?
[12:02 SLT] Yohan Pintens: these folks are way louder than those pesky tree huggers who used to come harass you eh jack
[12:02 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: JUst wait until they anounce it! *she hollers in a whisper
[12:02 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Jack, if it's not about age verifying then why do we need to be PIOF to see adult material? Surely you should just allow people to choose to be Adul regardless of whether they are paying or not.
[12:02 SLT] Walter McAndrews: you can't guarnatee it isn't being taken in between
[12:02 SLT] Talarus Luan: bah.. we were lots more vocal. :D
[12:02 SLT] Mosley Sperber: Good point, Elanthius
[12:02 SLT] Marianne McCann: Yohan - this has nothing on the S.O.S. folks who papered the front of the building
[12:02 SLT] Jack Linden: Xantarius, this has nothing to do with the TG which we've stated many times. The TG has no bearing on this at all
[12:02 SLT] Uni Ninetails: looks what good that did...
[12:03 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: The SOS thing was so short lived though.
[12:03 SLT] Jack Linden: We have no plans to merge grids
[12:03 SLT] Chaley May: the last time people was protesting against age verification people was setting themselves on fire :)
[12:03 SLT] Ethereal Clarity: Save our Sex?
[12:03 SLT] Walter McAndrews: jack the point is that they enjoy that now and appreciate the freedom, what you propose is to take that away and expect them to stay, they haven't any need to verify with you, your imposing a unilateral demand on them even when they are a free public player, you are exceeding the demands of government
[12:03 SLT] Couldbe Yue: I wish you guys would crowd in a little more. It's hard to get decent mob scenes when you're so spread out.. /me grins :)
[12:03 SLT] Ciaran Laval: Merging the grids is evens money, give it 12 months
[12:03 SLT] Uni Ninetails: You have no plans Jack but ill bet you 20 quid your thinking it....
[12:03 SLT] Lindin Lindman: Thank you Jack, that is reassuring to hear
[12:03 SLT] Xantarius Cain: Then, Jack... We just don't understand (maybe cause all LL has told us is that a small minory wants this).
[12:03 SLT] Xantarius Cain: Where is this minority? Are they here now?
[12:03 SLT] DarkStar Gothly: The real issue here is censorship and the term adult is totally subjective.. TOTALLY.. what i find offensive will be dfferant from everyone else here. "offensive content" is IMPOSSIBLE to define because every individual defines it differantly..
[12:04 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: and tell that minority to go to the teen grid
[12:04 SLT] Xantarius Cain: Are they attending several office hours per week, as we intend on doing?
[12:04 SLT] Firehorse Rearwin: and I am an adult, so if I find something offence I leave...
[12:04 SLT] Driftwood Miles: this is about choice not discrimination
[12:04 SLT] Erinyse Planer: jack why wotn LL handel its own age verification? many people would feel more comfortable to get it out fromt he sleezy company you ahve handeling it now
[12:04 SLT] Jack Linden: we want our customers to have the choice over what their second lives are. and whether they view adult material is a choice every resident should be able to make for themselve
[12:04 SLT] Talarus Luan: Saying "there are no plans or a part of this plan to merge the TG with the AG" is nigh upon meaningless, since the timeframe "at the moment" is not qualified, and can simply be hand-waved away as a separate policy later.
[12:04 SLT] Jack Linden: *s
[12:04 SLT] Marianne McCann: Yes, because sending adults into a teen-only space is such a good idea, Tumble
[12:04 SLT] Marianne McCann winks
[12:04 SLT] Xantarius Cain: Catering to some small minority of small-minded Puritans is a waste of time. The adult businesses are bringing in more cash monthly to you than some guy with a small parcel and his home on it.
[12:04 SLT] Ciaran Laval: Erinyse payment info on file with Linden Lab gives you account verification
[12:05 SLT] Couldbe Yue: [11:17] Couldbe Yue: ok. then 1. have you set a window for the move 2. have you a date to open the move list 3. will we be able to increase land holdings as part of the move by buying directly from you as part of the changeover
[11:17] Couldbe Yue: and of course if yes 4. how much will the land be per sq m
[11:19] Couldbe Yue: and I also need a swap to some pg land as part of the move. how are you going to accomplish this?
[12:05 SLT] Couldbe Yue: why don't you have a lawyer in attendance like they do at the BBs and at that press conference
[12:05 SLT] Walter McAndrews: that's a side issue because they are claiming not to gather information when in fact a verifying company aliready misused it by selling it, meaning someone is collecting information and the lindens either didnt' know, or assumed no liability because it's another party
[12:05 SLT] Ethereal Clarity: Snuff Out Smut?
[12:05 SLT] Tegg Bode: Yes I would feel more comfortable giving my RL details to LL as I already have anyway being premium
[12:05 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: Just ajoke, ort of*she mumbles
[12:05 SLT] DarkStar Gothly: personllt naked bodies aren't really all that offensive.. i look at oe every day in the morror and another one when he wakes up.. they are all kinda the same.. nipple har.. big freakin deal
[12:05 SLT] Walter McAndrews: right but many of us haven't and
[12:05 SLT] Walter McAndrews: appreciate the privacy
[12:05 SLT] Ciaran Laval: Premium members are will all be verified
[12:05 SLT] Jack Linden: Okay folks, I have to run to my next meeting. And I have no fingers left. :)
[12:05 SLT] Walter McAndrews: and now it's going to be violated for no good reason but
[12:05 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: If you're premium you don't need to give anyone any more info
[12:05 SLT] DarkStar Gothly: i woud remind you that we all have one of those.. in rl
[12:05 SLT] Erinyse Planer: that deadline is passing ciaran
[12:05 SLT] Chaley May: Jack, do you think Age Verification and Payment Info on file is enough to keep a determined teen from accessing adult content? Its almost giving a license to those teens who get verified to enter the adult zones freely
[12:05 SLT] Walter McAndrews: a bunch of assumptions and claims of groups asking for soemthing
[12:05 SLT] Driftwood Miles: lol I am not a puritan but I would be totally pissed off if a Sex Shop opened up next to me in rl

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User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-05-14

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