Open Source Meeting/2009-10-01

Open source meeting - Thursday, 2pm PT.

Agenda

• SNOW-93 Translation update - testing results? Like the additional checkbox location?
• SNOW-222 Media Plugin merge update - build issues? - Grey World investigation by Merov and AimeeT
• SNOW-9 Gesture Recognition - any update from the Lindens? Is this being developed? (Wiki page: Gesture Recognition)
• VWR-15310 Advanced->XUI->Save to XML doesn't set proper XML tags

Various Texture Issues:

• SNOW-48(has patch) Textures Not Resolving On Megaprims - Breaking Holodecks and Off Sim Landscaping Creations
• SNOW-59 Texture Cache miss doesn't retry transfer, prim remains grey
• SNOW-94 Textures keep reloading
• SNOW-112 (has patch) http map textures are corrupted
• SNOW-168 Texture console shows "download progress" > 1.00 on small textures loaded from cache.
• SNOW-203 (has patch - fixed) Uncached textures (old from inventory or new just given by others) are marked as missing (do not load in preview)
• SNOW-230 Non Recognized Texture after Upload on Mac OSX 10.6 Snow Leopard.
• SNOW-249 Some prim faces are remaining grey. Texture console indicates Area 0.

When discussing Snowglobe with residents, I found that many stopped using it due to some textures not loading at all. Many said they would be happy to do more testing if the textures would load to the level of detail needed to render the scene. Some noticed higher framerates on older hardware presumably due to less texture data being handled and indicated they would put up with some things being a little fuzzy on their old machine as their alternative is to use a text client so they could actually type. If a balance can be struck that eliminates the grey Snowglobe would probably see more useage. (Ardy Lay)

Transcript

[14:01]	Morgaine Dinova waves
[14:01]	Fred Rookstown:	Hey Rob.
[14:01]	Ardy Lay:	Hello
[14:01]	Carjay McGinnis:	hi Rob, Merov
[14:01]	Rob Linden:	hi folks
[14:01]	Merov Linden:	hi there
[14:01]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hi Rob, Merov, + usual suspects :P
[14:01]	Mojito Sorbet:	Hello
[14:01]	Rob Linden:	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Meeting/Agenda (https: / / wiki.secondlife.com / wiki / Open_Source_Meeting / Agenda)
[14:02]	Psi Merlin:	Hi all
[14:02]	Ardy Lay:	Lookslike Merov had quite an adventure.
[14:03]	Merov Linden:	it doesn't end there Ardy
[14:03]	Rob Linden:	many thanks to everyone who chipped in on the agenda this week (Ardy, Thickbrick, OO)
[14:03]	Merov Linden:	:) ()
[14:03]	Rob Linden:	first up, on SNOW-93
	[#SNOW-93] Automatic language translation of chat messages
[14:04]	Ardy Lay:	IT was interesting to see that lead into texture loading issues and troubleshooting.
[14:04]	Ardy Lay:	On translation, I can say I like the additional checkbox location a lot.
[14:05]	Techwolf Lupindo:	The texture loading problem is the main reason sloglobe is not being used much by resedents.
[14:05]	Ardy Lay:	I was working on adding that when I saw Rob's contribution show ip on JIRA.
[14:05]	Rob Linden:	I *think* we've got all of the translation bugfixes that have patches sitting in jira in there
[14:05]	Mojito Sorbet:	Speaking of textures tho
[14:05]	Rob Linden:	there's one more tweak that I need to make to the preferences box based on an internal conversation
[14:06]	Mojito Sorbet:	Earlier this week I filed VWR-15680 about stalled texture loading.
	[#VWR-15680] Texture downloading stalls
[14:06]	Rob Linden:	(btw...let's stick to the agenda)
[14:06]	Mojito Sorbet:	In 1.23
[14:06]	Mojito Sorbet:	But Snowglobe seems not to have that bug
[14:06]	Mojito Sorbet:	(somebody mentioned textures)
[14:06]	Rob Linden:	I'll get something filed about the pref dialog tweak I plan to make
[14:07]	Rob Linden:	...and then, barring any showstopper bugs, we can declare victory there
[14:07]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	Rob, in the comments on SNOW-93, there's something about ' being replaced with \ (but that never happens anyway),
[14:07]	Rob Linden:	Thickbrick, oh that's right....
[14:08]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	i think google always replaces that by ' anyway.
[14:08]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	but still...
[14:08]	Rob Linden:	that would explain why I could repro
[14:08]	Rob Linden:	yeah, it's pretty obviously wrong code, isn't it?
[14:08]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	looks like a typo
[14:09]	Rob Linden:	for those following along: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-93?focusedCommentId=135469&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel#action_135469
[14:09]	JIRA-helper: [#SNOW-93] Automatic language translation of chat messages
[14:10]	Rob Linden:	if someone wants to file a bug against that, that may make sure we fix it. it's pretty low priority since it's not actually exhibiting symptoms
[14:11]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	oops, I was wrong: google doesn't send an ', it sends a numerical html entity.
[14:11]	Rob Linden:	(but we should fix it because it's wrong)
[14:11]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	(I think it does, does, anyway)
[14:11]	Rob Linden:	anyway, enough on that. anyone running the latest buidl?
[14:11]	Merov Linden not right this minute
[14:12]	Rob Linden:	(and....if so, what do you think of the translation pref in "Local Chat"?)
[14:12]	Aimee Trescothick just compiled and ran about 20 minutes ago
[14:12]	Ardy Lay:	I feel that is where is belongs. :-)
[14:12]	Twisted Laws:	i think it is real good place for it
[14:12]	Rob Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/attachment/29737/verticalpref.png
[14:12]	Aimee Trescothick:	yep, agreed
[14:13]	Rob Linden:	cool
[14:13]	Rob Linden:	let's move on....
[14:13]	Rob Linden:	SNOW-222[c] Media Plugin merge update - build issues? - Grey World investigation by Merov and AimeeT
	[#SNOW-222] Merge LLMedia Plugin API in SnowGlobe
[14:14]	Merov Linden:	sooo... (sooo ...)
[14:14]	Merov Linden:	on that one
[14:14]	Merov Linden:	Aimee signaled to me that the "About Land..." floater crash
[14:14]	Merov Linden:	with is bad
[14:15]	Aimee Trescothick:	yeah, doesn't actually crash for me on OSX, it's just a mess
[14:15]	Merov Linden:	I've been backtracking my steps and can confirm that it crashes also in the pluginapi internal branch I've been using as a source for the merge
[14:15]	Merov Linden:	so there... no wonder it crashes in Snow...
[14:16]	Techwolf Lupindo reads SNOW-222 comments...
[14:16]	Merov Linden:	I identified a rev on that branch that doesn't crash and I'm looking at the diff now
[14:16]	Merov Linden:	divide and conquere style
[14:16]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	how do you get it to crash?
[14:16]	Rob Linden:	bisect with svn....fun!
[14:16]	Aimee Trescothick:	I've been doing clean up on it, and sorting out the missing/wrong controls was hoping to have a patch up by now
[14:17]	Carjay McGinnis:	use git-svn for that
[14:17]	Aimee Trescothick:	but been a bit of a hectic week, so may be the weekend before I can finish it off
[14:17]	Merov Linden:	Thickbrick: just click about land... in the pie menu
[14:17]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Merrov, and others, sorry for not keeping up. Right now its very buzy for us werewolves. It the only time of the year where we can interact with humans and not get shot at by the rednecks. So I will not have much time to contrubte.
[14:17]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	oh. it worked fine when getting there from th title bar
[14:17]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	heh
[14:17]	Merov Linden:	interesting
[14:17]	Fred Rookstown:	Tachwolf: As a redneck, I take offense. :[
[14:18]	Aimee Trescothick:	ah, that may be why it didn't crash me
[14:18]	Aimee Trescothick:	that's how I always get to it
[14:18]	Arawn Spitteler:	Just leave the fence and shoot the puppy
[14:18]	Merov Linden:	anyway, that's the one thing that prevents me to do a first commi
[14:19]	Merov Linden:	*commit*
[14:19]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	anybody got mp3 streams working on Linux with the media plugin patch?
[14:19]	Aimee Trescothick:	I'll try and get the UI cleanup finished up tomorrow
[14:19]	Merov Linden:	after that, there's an issue Pixel mentioned but she's been unclear as to what exactly fails and she's out right now
[14:20]	Rob Linden:	I wonder if we can do some temporary workaround to get the issue checked in, since I imagine it's pretty inefficient for people to help out on this with it still hanging in limbo
[14:20]	Merov Linden:	(traveling across the US from North to South)
[14:20]	Rob Linden:	(e.g. either live with "About Land.." crashing until we fix it, or temporarily blocking that codepath)
[14:21]	Merov Linden:	I really don't know why it crashes so it's hard to work around it
[14:21]	Aimee Trescothick:	hmm, did we get a fix for the debug spam: "�[0m�[1m2009-10-01T21:20:54Z INFO: getSize: Variable Language not in message ChatFromSimulator block ChatData"
[14:21]	Aimee Trescothick:	(that's back to the previous thing, sorry)
[14:21]	Aimee Trescothick:	just noticed my console is getting filled with them right now
[14:22]	Rob Linden:	Aimee: yeah, pretty sure I checked that in
[14:22]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	that happens once on each chat line, once on typing-start and once on -typing-stop
[14:22]	Aimee Trescothick:	hmm, odd then, this is a fresh build right before the meeting
[14:23]	Aimee Trescothick:	hopefully the UI cleanup should fix the crash, as it's most likely to do with the missing controls
[14:23]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	I'm seeing this too, built from trunk yesterday
[14:23]	Rob Linden:	SNOW-250
	[#SNOW-250] Region without Voice Caps Spams the SecondLife.log endlessly
[14:23]	Aimee Trescothick:	I'll do my best to get it done for tomorrow
[14:23]	Aimee Trescothick:	nope, that's a different issue
[14:24]	Rob Linden:	ah...that would explain it then
[14:24]	Merov Linden:	Aimee: you're talking about the "About Land..." issue?
[14:24]	Merov Linden lost
[14:24]	Aimee Trescothick:	yes,sorry, talking about two issues at once lol
[14:24]	Rob Linden:	so...on "About Land..."
[14:24]	Aimee Trescothick:	hopefully the UI cleanup of About Land will fix the crash
[14:25]	Merov Linden:	k
[14:25]	Aimee Trescothick:	as the XUI and code for the media and audio panels are completely out of sync as they are
[14:25]	Twisted Laws wonders if server 1.32 is going to provide that language in the chat from simulator message
[14:25]	Rob Linden:	ohhhhhh.....that issue
[14:26]	Rob Linden:	we'll go back to it in a sec. let's figure out what we want to do about SNOW-222
[14:26]	Merov Linden:	ok, SNOW-222, we want a quick fix for About Land... and commit tomorrow
[14:27]	Aimee Trescothick:	yep
[14:27]	Merov Linden:	that's not the last issue with that code I bet but that will be a good milestone
[14:28]	Rob Linden:	where "quick fix" may mean "temporarily disable the dialog"?
[14:28]	Merov Linden:	if needs be but I don't think we'll get to that
[14:28]	Rob Linden:	sounds like a good plan to me
[14:29]	Merov Linden:	I have a rev that works, a rev that doesn't and few changes in between
[14:29]	Merov Linden:	I should be able to find the culprit with that :)
[14:29]	Aimee Trescothick:	good
[14:29]	Rob Linden:	ok....back on the translation log spam
[14:29]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	something this big is bound to have bugs, so the earlier we can all start fixing them the better
[14:30]	Fred Rookstown:	Annoying as heck and drops my framerate by 5 FPS on OpenSim-based grids.
[14:30]	Merov Linden:	+1 Thickbrick :)
[14:30]	Fred Rookstown:	(Note, avg framerate is usually 10 on SL_
[14:30]	Rob Linden:	on the log spam, I think the best thing to do is to make the feature conditional on a debug setting
[14:30]	Fred Rookstown:	DebugVoiceCaps?
[14:31]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	Fred, I tihnk you're thinking aobut a different issue
[14:31]	Fred Rookstown:	o
[14:31]	Rob Linden:	no, some shorter version of ServerSendsLanguageInChatMessages
[14:31]	Rob Linden is not good at pithy names on the spot
[14:31]	Aimee Trescothick:	SSLICM
[14:32]	Fred Rookstown:	ChatLanguageFromServer
[14:32]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	ChatFromSimulatorHasLanguage ?
[14:32]	Fred Rookstown:	Or use Locale instead of Language
[14:32]	Rob Linden:	something like that. at any rate, if someone wanted to code that up, I'd be very grateful
[14:33]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	a question: am I right to assume that what's going on there is that it complains that the message template doesn't have that block?
[14:34]	Rob Linden:	Thickbrick, that's exactly right
[14:34]	Twisted Laws:	line 2349 or so in llviewermessage.cpp ... int languageSize = msg->getSize(_PREHASH_ChatData, _PREHASH_Language);
[14:35]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	so why not add the block to the message template?
[14:36]	Rob Linden:	Thickbrick: message template additions take a fair amount of wrangling from a process perspective. just haven't had the time to do it
[14:36]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	ok
[14:36]	Rob Linden:	...and probably won't get it soon
[14:37]	Rob Linden:	anyway, let's move on
[14:37]	Rob Linden:	SNOW-9[c] Gesture Recognition - any update from the Lindens? Is this being developed? (Wiki page: Gesture Recognition)
	[#SNOW-9] Gesture Recognition
[14:37]	Merov Linden:	woops!
[14:38]	Rob Linden:	this one is stalled right now. we've put a lot on Merov's plate
[14:38]	Merov Linden:	this one is not forgotten (that's my baby) but took a back seat compared to more pressing issue
[14:39]	Rob Linden:	the plugin arch in SNOW-222 provides some foundational tech for SNOW-9
[14:39]	Merov Linden:	plus, I really thing that developing something like that through a plugin api is the way to go
[14:39]	Merov Linden:	jinx
[14:39]	Rob Linden:	:)
[14:39]	Ardy Lay:	Hehe
[14:39]	Merov Linden:	not that pluginapi as is will do
[14:39]	Merov Linden:	but that's a base
[14:39]	Aimee Trescothick:	though the API will need some expansion
[14:39]	Aimee Trescothick:	doube jinx lol
[14:39]	Merov Linden:	from which we can expand
[14:39]	Merov Linden:	indeed :)
[14:40]	Melinda Latynina:	violent agreement
[14:40]	Merov Linden:	I think that's because the trail of thoughts is somewhat shared here
[14:40]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	LL has been working on secret mind reading plugins
[14:40]	Merov Linden:	we already sort of talked about it several times
[14:40]	Aimee Trescothick:	LOL
[14:40]	Merov Linden got his spine implant last week...
[14:41]	Rob Linden:	moving along....
[14:41]	Ardy Lay:	So, something for some to look forward to.
[14:41]	Rob Linden:	VWR-15310[c] Advanced->XUI->Save to XML doesn't set proper XML tags
	[#VWR-15310] Advanced->XUI->Save to XML doesn't set proper XML tags
[14:41]	Rob Linden:	you might have seen....I just checked that in late last night
[14:41]	Rob Linden:	(er...not that late)
[14:41]	Mm Alder:	Yay!
[14:41]	Merov Linden:	there's SNOW-259 to track this now
	[#SNOW-259] Fix Advanced->XUI load and save to XML
[14:41]	Rob Linden:	late yesterday
[14:42]	Merov Linden:	it points to the 2 required patches
[14:42]	Mm Alder:	Thank y'all.
[14:42]	Rob Linden:	no prob! thanks Mm and Admiral for submitting that
[14:43]	Rob Linden:	should we move on to talk texture issues?
[14:43]	Ardy Lay:	Sure
[14:44]	Rob Linden:	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Meeting/Agenda has a big list
[14:45]	Rob Linden:	it might be good to create a meta issue for texture problems and link them all to that one issue
[14:45]	Ardy Lay:	Seems like there are a lot of little symptoms that add up to the appearence of big problems to many that I asked to try out Snowglobe.
[14:45]	Rob Linden:	SNOW-203 was recently checked in. SNOW-112 may be on its way
	[#SNOW-112] http map textures are corrupted
	[#SNOW-203] Uncached textures (old from inventory or new just given by others) are marked as missing (do not load in preview)
[14:45]	Merov Linden:	I think we need to focus on the ones reported, fix them and see if it helps the general feeling
[14:46]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	waiting for merov to review...
[14:46]	Merov Linden:	Thickbrick: the patch is short and seems fine but I wanted to compare with the internal branch solution (or absence of...) for this
[14:47]	Merov Linden:	I'm also always cautious with mutex locking
[14:47]	Merov Linden:	can be costly if done too liberaly..
[14:47]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	I want to get it in before 1.2, since I think it might also cause other problems
[14:47]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	agreed
[14:47]	Merov Linden:	agree!
[14:48]	Rob Linden:	has anyone tried Bao's patch in SNOW-48
	[#SNOW-48] Textures Not Resolving On Megaprims - Breaking Holodecks and Off Sim Landscaping Creations
[14:48]	Melinda Latynina:	snowglobe would be the perfect place to acid test such sensitive changes
[14:48]	Ardy Lay:	I could not find the Holodeck mentioned in that one.
[14:49]	Rob Linden:	seems like we should go ahead and apply SNOW-48
[14:49]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	and the sim mentioned in the dupe issue is gone now
[14:49]	Ardy Lay:	I made my own textured megaprim and the patch seemed to help.
[14:49]	Melinda Latynina:	by "holodeck" i assume that means regions or other areas enclosed in textured environment boxes
[14:50]	Ardy Lay:	That's what I took it to mean.
[14:50]	Melinda Latynina:	i call those "primpostors"
[14:50]	Techwolf Lupindo:	For my testing on this bug, I got to RCFM sim and look at the off sim island.s
[14:50]	Rob Linden:	Ardy: cool....so you've tested it. wonderful, that's another good reason to commit
[14:50]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	it's very visible on "out of sim landscaping" megapims, and I'm not sure Bao's fix will work for all cases there
[14:51]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	(but haven't tested yet)
[14:52]	Rob Linden:	any other texture issues that have patches waiting?
[14:53]	Rob Linden:	doesn't look like it based on my scan
[14:53]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	uneducated guess: SNOW-168 might be related to the cause of SNOW-112
	[#SNOW-168] Texture console shows "download progress" as exceeding 1.00 (100%?) on small textures loaded from cache.
[14:54]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	(i.e. initating the fetch with wrong size)
[14:54]	Rob Linden:	my hope is that we can take care of the list of issues with patches, then see where we are with the others
[14:55]	Merov Linden:	+1 on Rob's tactical view
[14:55]	Merov Linden:	I'll add: once we're done with the commits, would be great to have lots of people jumping on the other texture bugs and try to repro them
[14:55]	Merov Linden:	each take a lot of time to investigate
[14:56]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	SNOW-48 is assigned to Bao - if he's going to commit it, I think now is the time.
[14:56]	Ardy Lay:	I'd like to know what's causing SNOW-249. It's very repeatable on the objects I discovered but I haven't been able to create new objects with the same problem.
[14:56]	Rob Linden:	I should probably commit it on his behalf
	[#SNOW-249] Some prim faces are remaining grey. Texture console indicates Area 0.
[14:57]	Ardy Lay:	I suspect if it got cleared up some of the grey sculpted prims I am seeing would load too.
[14:58]	Ardy Lay:	Then I have one more I am working on which is a sculpt map not completely loading. It is an oblong map of three segments of chain.
[14:58]	Ardy Lay:	If I use it as a face texture on a default cube it loads right up.
[14:59]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	(woever just left the sim has a lot scripts on them... 3.6 seconds freeze)
[14:59]	Rob Linden:	Ardy, I'm thinking it might be worth stirring up some interest on IRC and the mailng list on SNOW-249
[15:00]	Rob Linden:	we're just about out of time here today
[15:00]	Ardy Lay:	I can try that.
[15:00]	Rob Linden:	anything else we need to talk about?
[15:00]	Ardy Lay:	Thanks again Rob and Merov.
[15:00]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	well, the freeze plan is still in motion?
[15:01]	Merov Linden:	249 is well written with a good handle on how to attck the prob
[15:01]	Merov Linden:	thanks Ardy
[15:01]	Rob Linden:	Thickbrick, only sorta. we've still got October 12 as the target date, but I'm guessing that's going to slip
[15:02]	Rob Linden:	we still need to dig through a bunch of issues in JIRA
[15:02]	Rob Linden:	...and of course, give a little time for the dust to settle on SNOW-222
	[#SNOW-222] Merge LLMedia Plugin API in SnowGlobe
[15:02]	Merov Linden thinks he better narrow those revs if he wants to nail 222
[15:02]	Thickbrick Sleaford nods
[15:03]	Rob Linden:	anyway, we should get going now. thanks everyone!
[15:03]	Twisted Laws:	btw, way back on SNOW-93 ... that patch could have been done with NO cpp or h file changes by use of the control_name="TranslateChat" feature of xui
	[#SNOW-93] Automatic language translation of chat messages
[15:03]	Twisted Laws:	the history checkbox, that is
[15:04]	Merov Linden waves...
[15:04]	Aimee Trescothick:	good point Twisted
[15:04]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	see you
[15:04]	Rob Linden:	Twisted....oh, silly me
[15:04]	Aimee Trescothick:	:D
[15:04]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	Twisted: that allows for more than 1 control for the same setting?
[15:05]	Twisted Laws:	not sure what you mean there Thick
[15:05]	Techwolf Lupindo:	see you later...going to aditi
[15:05]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	the same setting has a checkboxc in preferences, and the history window
[15:05]	Aimee Trescothick waves
[15:05]	Ardy Lay:	Yes, controls can be duplicated. The change I was playing with was just in the XML file
[15:05]	Ardy Lay:	I wasn't sure if it was the right way to do it or not.
[15:06]	Ardy Lay:	But Rob beat me to the punch.
[15:06]	Twisted Laws:	you can add checkboxes to any dialog with the use of control_name that work with no code changes
[15:06]	Melinda Latynina believes the control_name tag is powerful and terribly underused
[15:06]	Rob Linden:	heh...shows you how much I know about XUI
[15:06]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	good to know!
[15:06]	Melinda Latynina:	check out my implementation of the beacons floater which was implemented almost entirely on this little-known feature
[15:06]	Twisted Laws:	it automatically sets the equivelent debug setting
[15:07]	Rob Linden:	it wasn't that much code, but it may still be worth doing it just to clean things up.
[15:07]	Melinda Latynina:	it keeps the saved settings always in sync with the controls
[15:08]	Rob Linden:	I'm not sure if I'd get around to it, but if someone wants to submit that, I could probably commit it no problem
[15:08]	Rob Linden:	Melinda, yeah my patch keeps it in sync too, but does it via boost signal. I think I looked at one of the voice controls for an example
[15:09]	Tegg Bode:	Anyone got a link to find the latest Snowglobe RC?
[15:09]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	no rc yet, https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Snowglobe
[15:09]	Rob Linden:	k...got folks waiting on me now. gotta run
[15:09]	Melinda Latynina:	rob: the xml version is much simpler to use, and as noted, requires no code. works for sliders too btw
[15:10]	Tegg Bode:	Thanks, well I call it a RC/beta, anyway ㋡
[15:10]	Carjay McGinnis:	bye. Rob
[15:10]	Rob Linden:	Melinda, yup...I probably should have used it. just explaining how I ended up where I did
[15:10]	Rob Linden:	anyway...bye all
[15:10]	Melinda Latynina:	thx rob, merov, all