Open Development User Group/Archive/2011-04-04

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07:03  Wolfpup  hey Oz
  Tonya Souther  Morning, Oz./
  Office Orb  mail_to set to
    Start transcription to
    Transcript will be sent to:
  Oz Linden  Hi all
  Wolfpup  dang only two of us besides you oz?
  Oz Linden  Gee... quiet morning
07:04  Wolfpup  hey craconis
  draconis.neurocam  hello
07:05  Tonya Souther  Have to dig out much snow, Oz?
  Oz Linden  No, the Apr 1 snowstorm has pretty much melted now
  oobscure  heh
  Oz Linden  didn't even bother to clear it... got about 5 inches
07:06  Wolfpup  hey open
  oobscure  hey everybody
  Oz Linden  but it was 50 the next day
  oobscure  wow
  Wolfpup  Oz dose the new physics work on the old AV's
07:07  Oz Linden  what's an old av?
    you can add a physics wearable to any av
  Wolfpup  oh ok
07:08  Oz Linden  not very interesting on this one, though
    liked your video, opensource
  Wolfpup  true only the ladies will use it much
  oobscure  :D
  Tonya Souther  Which video?
  Wolfpup  seconds that question
  oobscure  not a nice video, but hopefully demonstr...ative
    do we already have an agenda ? i'd like to ask a question with regard to .. testing the last builds .. which SL features should we mostly test ? I guess some are more .. potentially problematic than others ..
07:09    tonya:
  hat sculpted ... 

Video Preview: Avatar Physics (Chest, Butt, and Belly Bounce) in Second Life Viewer

  Oz Linden  oh no... I've got an av for TPV testing who's a big fat jolly guy.... it's great on him
    yes, we should talk about that, but I want to go over the OPEN issues first....
  Tonya Souther  ah. Yes, one of out support leads has been playing with that, too.
07:10  Oz Linden
  Office Orb

OPEN-55 The 3p-tut repository does not reflect what is being downloaded from the prebuild lib pacakges

07:12  Oz Linden  hmmm... that's not good.... I'll have to look into that one.
    the 3p-* repos should match the packages...
  Office Orb

OPEN-54 Inconsistent CMake variable name for JsonCpp include dir(s)

  Tonya Souther  yah, wasn't that pretty much their purpose?
  Oz Linden  yes, it is
07:14  Tonya Souther  This seems like a straighforward fix.
  Oz Linden  I don't think that I understand the issue, and don't care much about standalone... if there's a change to go with it, I'll test it
07:15  Tonya Souther  I'm a little surprised Boroondas didnt' include a patch. Seems like a one-liner.
07:16  Oz Linden  open-53
  Office Orb

OPEN-53 Bad permissions of files in 3p-openssl cause packaging failure on Linux in OpensourceRelese mode.

  Oz Linden  I don't understand why if this is a problem that it wouldn't show up in our builds?
07:17  Tonya Souther  Are you running build as root?
  Oz Linden  I hope not
  Tonya Souther  Or as the group owning the files?
  Wolfpup  Oz that would be because your build farms have the permisions that os dev do not
  Oz Linden  would not surprise me if the group matched... that could be it
07:18    open-52
  Office Orb

OPEN-52 Superfluous source files

07:19  Wolfpup  you might see if there is a way to set the permisions to any
  Tonya Souther  There's a *LOT* of dead code in the viewer. I keep tripping over it trying to do things.
  Oz Linden  I love the idea of getting rid of dead code
  oobscure  I think it's a very good effort by jonathan
  Wolfpup  is dead code just for linux or is it dead in windows and mac as well
07:20  Oz Linden  it looks like some was needed
  oobscure  this weekend I managed to do build the viewer the new Autobuild way and hopefully I can help Jonathan with testing that
  Oz Linden  but of course it should match the cmake files anyway
07:21    I'll set up a TeamCity task for that too
    By the way - I'm told that I've actually got the Macs for the open source build farm!
  oobscure  o.o
  draconis.neurocam  woo
  Tonya Souther  yay!
07:22  Oz Linden  Still need to get a hosting location set up for them... but progress is progress
  oobscure  what will they do exactly ?
  Wolfpup  Oz what about the windows and linux ones?
07:23  Oz Linden  Windows and Linux will be done with Amazon EC2 hosts
07:24  Wolfpup  Opensource the build farms Oz is talking about will be the ones that devs like you and me will be able to use
  Oz Linden  It will allow you to do TeamCity builds that are as close as possible to exactly what we do internally, on all three platforms at once
07:25    So I won't have to do test builds for you to make sure that we've got cross platform tests
  Wolfpup  Oz do you have any people in mind as initial testers?
  Oz Linden  Too soon to worry about that
  oobscure  and I guess .. they will do that fast? farm = distributed work?
07:26  Oz Linden  I don't have a date yet for when I'll get a network set up for these... that looks like the gating problem now
  Wolfpup  oob they will build in the same length of time as the regular LL build farms
  Oz Linden  I don't really know what the performance will be like yet
  oobscure  ok, thanks.
  Oz Linden  Our windows builds take a bit over 2 hours
07:27    but we'll have to see what the EC2 performance turns out to be
  Wolfpup  the same as it dose for me when i do my local builds
  Oz Linden  open-38
  Office Orb

OPEN-38 Fixes for viewer-autobuild for standalone

07:29  Wolfpup  that seems more of a linux and 64-bit issue
  Oz Linden  I'll Accept this one and look into it... looks like a minor nusiance
07:30    And that completes our triage !
    I'm also going to look at the changes in OPEN-50
  Office Orb

OPEN-50 As an Open Source developer I would like a single set of configurations, which work for both Visual Studio and Express version of VC.

07:31  Oz Linden  figuring those out will be much more of a pain than they should be though because things were renamed and rearranged so the diffs are essentially useless
  Wolfpup  that macke it mor uniform for the Os devs as we all will have exactly the same settings and switches available
07:32  draconis.neurocam  would be wonderful if that was the case in the future, over the weekend i got 2010 express and all the other necessary things set up
07:33  Oz Linden  Yes, I believe the changes are largely good, it will just take some time to sort out
  Wolfpup  the names ar bacicaly like ths OpenSourceReleaseWithDebInfo -> ReleaseWithDebInfoOS
07:34  Oz Linden  it's a fine convention... but it caused the blocks to be re-ordered, so I can't easily see what the other diffs are
    I'll have to monkey with the files to really compare them
  Wolfpup  plust in the OS settings switches are added
07:35  Oz Linden  It turns out that there is a reason why we didn't use precompiled headers (which is one of the diffs)..... someone told me what it was on Friday, but I've forgotten at the moemnt
    Ah... Boroondas.... once you get yourself settled
07:36  Wolfpup  Oz they have just beend re grouped all the verious setting are togeather now ie Debug group ReleaseWithDebInfo group
  Oz Linden  open-54 needs a change to review
  Wolfpup  that was me and it was because VS2005 defaulted to it beong on
  Oz Linden
  Office Orb  OPEN-54 Inconsistent CMake variable name for JsonCpp include dir(s)
07:37  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  ah, yeah ... that's low priority, though. The error doesn't have any effect currently.
  Oz Linden  no... I mean that it is off in 2010 for a reason... it caused a problem with some package... will have to find out again what it was
07:38  oobscure  if the triage agenda is complete, I had a question
  Wolfpup  the only thing i have noticed is concerning the png lib
  Oz Linden  So.... I did add a new 'version' in the VWR project for 'open-development'
07:39  Wolfpup  but that is during the linking stage and the linker gets reconfigured
  oobscure  "Issues that are good candidates for open source developers to take up"
  Oz Linden  I will be moving issues there that I think are interesting but that LL is unlikely to get to any time soon, so they would be good candidates for open devs to pick up
07:40  Oz Linden  yup
    I have not put much there yet, but I welcome suggestions
    What was your question, Opensource ?
  oobscure  I got a bit more comfortable with JIRA these days. Filters, dashboards etc
    my question is about the testing we're doing these days against the last development builds .. vs2010 and viewer-development. In the last days I tried to use as many features as possible, but I'd suppose that testing some specific features may be more useful .. than testing other ones. If yes, which are they?
    note that I'm on Linux if this is relevant
07:41  Oz Linden  Ah, well, actually testing almost anything is useful
    Because we upgraded a bunch of the dependencies, and most of the toolchain, there's no telling what we might have broken
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  VWR-22733 suggests different possible behaviors. Has one been chosen, yet?
  Office Orb

VWR-22733 Avatar "Sit Here" available while falling/jumping

  Oz Linden  and of course, testing the new Avatar Physics is good too :-)
  oobscure  ok
07:42  Oz Linden  There were new changes to that this morning....
    Seraph spent his whole weekend on it, I think
  draconis.neurocam  ive been running the viewer since friday and ive seen no major issues, long times for phyiscs to load on other avatars, but i wonder if it might be related to the tight pants issue as well, and yes as soon as this meeting is over i will try out todays commits
07:43  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  (VWR-22733 is the only issue 'due' for the open-development version
  Wolfpup  Boroondas i do not think Oz has had time to move things over yet
07:44  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  Wolfpup, I know, but VWR-22733 looks like it needs a design/UX decision, first)
07:45  Wolfpup  Oz will there be a way for the OS devs to be able to properly move issues in the bug tracker
  oobscure  (slightly related to Wolf's question .. labels in JIRA)
  Oz Linden  some things will need design decisions....
    if someone wants to work on them, then I'll get the required design review from LL
07:46    I'm not sure what you mean by 'properly move', WP
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  probably just 'move'?
  Oz Linden  mostly you won't be able to do moves
07:47    but if you want to work on something, let me know and when we've agreed on it then I'll move it
  Wolfpup  Oz STORM-1098 seems like a simple reworking oth the description in the settings xml there
  Office Orb

STORM-1098 Debug setting ShowNetStats has wrong description

07:48  Wolfpup  it would take longer to make a repository and all than to acutaly do the fix
  Oz Linden  yup... that one looks easy
07:49  draconis.neurocam  ShowNetStats is a very useful feature, one of the first things I turn on
  Wolfpup  i have it on as well
    once i found it was sill avail in viewer development
07:50  Oz Linden  I'd like to be able to just take changes through the codereview system without a full repo, but right now, there's a bug in ReviewBoard that looses the hg meta-data when you do that
    when that's fixed, then we can change our process for simple changes like this one so that no repo is needed
    there is a new ReviewBoard release out... I'll look to see if that's fixed in it
07:51  oobscure  raises hand
    we lost Borondaas
  Oz Linden  shoot opensource
  oobscure  I had another question .. about Labels in JIRA - I had sent an email to opensource-dev about that on March 29. Borondaas replied me but there's room for other opinions or statements from LL
    I had another question .. about Labels in JIRA - I had sent an email to opensource-dev about that on March 29. Borondaas replied me but there's room for other opinions or statements from LL
    oops. sorry
    Basically, I have been adding labels to many JIRA issues, seeing people already was using them (and abusing them). Then, Borondaas explained me you (Oz) had told us not to do that.
  Oz Linden  Yes, I owe the community a repsonse on that one
  oobscure  I think they're very useful and I'd like if we (users or contributors) could use them and I'm available to help with this.ù
07:52  Oz Linden  As far as I can tell, labels don't cost us anything, but they can be confusing
    I need to have an internal discussion about the policy question...
07:53  Wolfpup  Oz i snaged 1098 will make a repos and all tomarrow as ill have the time to do it then
  Oz Linden  I'll do that this week and get something posted
    I'm trying to organize a major cleanup of VWR
  oobscure  thanks oz.
  draconis.neurocam  thes much thanks indeed, lots of work on that front
  Oz Linden  I'd like to get rid of most of the issues there and get the rest organized
07:54    any other new business ?
07:55  draconis.neurocam  i would also like to thank you for getting the ball rolling for updating everything in order to keep current, it was something that was majorly lacking
  Oz Linden  well, now that all the tools and libs are out where you can all see and use them, you can help keep them more current
  draconis.neurocam  precisely
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  well, I'd like to discuss how JsonCpp includes get handled, but I better start that at the mailing list ... it's a bit complicated
  Oz Linden  ok
07:56  Wolfpup  well for one thing if the open jpeg gets updated merov's testing program can give that a work out
07:57  Oz Linden  yes, I'd like to see some thinking about how we could use that program to build some automated tests
07:58  Wolfpup  it would be verry use full for updating all the image handling that gose on (compression and decompression)
  oobscure  is there any documentation (even in the code...) about Avatar Physics? I'm actually new to do that.
  Oz Linden  Merov is starting on some more work in that area...
07:59  oobscure  I don't even know if other TPV viewers do the same or only make breasts bouncing
    also, is "Physics" a new asset type?
  Oz Linden  Well, I understand that KirstenLee has already ported it :-)
  draconis.neurocam  the way this works seems to be much better implimented and less hacky than the original third party implimentation
  oobscure  KirstenLee...faster than ever :)
  Oz Linden  It's a kind of wearable, yes
  Tonya Souther  We're seriously considering having it in Firestorm Preview 3.
08:00  Office Orb  Your timer has expired!
  Oz Linden  can't say I'm surprised, Tonya
  Tonya Souther  But, FWIW, it is our official position that LL done good by having it in the main viewer, LL got it right, and LL is to be congratulated and encouraged to do more things the users want. :3
08:01    It'll just take a backport from v-d to the 2.5.2 code.
  oobscure  next step is to have Kinect scan our bellies .. and make our avatar bounce accordingly
  Tonya Souther  What's the "we" stuff, kemosabe?
08:02  Oz Linden  Talk to Merov about the Kinect
  oobscure  yup :)
  Oz Linden  I've gotta go... see you all next time.
  Tonya Souther  I'm not at all sure I want to know, Oz.
    Have fun!
  draconis.neurocam  take care oz
  oobscure  bye bye Oz !
  Wolfpup  you TC oz and see you at the scrum