Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2012.09.14

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List of Speakers

Baker Linden
Cheesey Linden
Motor Loon
Nalates Urriah
Rex Cronon
Simon Linden
Theresa Tennyson
Toysoldier Thor


[16:04] Simon Linden: OK, let's get rolling ... for news, we're planning on promoting the code that is in the RC channels next Tuesday to the main grid. We'll re-evaluate it on Monday to see how the crash rate and bug reports look, but so far things look good

[16:04] Simon Linden: So if you see anything, please file those Bug reports

[16:04] Simon Linden: Andrew can't make it this week to the user group, btw

[16:04] Rex Cronon: cheesey. at first i thought u were a banana:)

[16:05] Simon Linden: There is another maintenance release scheduled for the RC channels on Wednesday next week

[16:05] Motor Loon: fried banana mabye

[16:05] Cheesey Linden: im string cheese

[16:06] Simon Linden: There are a bunch of changes in there to support more localized messages - over 50 of them, I think

[16:06] Cheesey Linden: tasty and nutritious

[16:06] Simon Linden: Plus Baker's large group support, which some of you have been playing with on the beta grid

[16:07] Toysoldier Thor: Simon - what u mean by more localized messages?

[16:07] Simon Linden: It's the localized alert/notification messages

[16:07] Simon Linden: One sec, I'll look up the message name

[16:08] Nalates Urriah: I think that localized means they translated the messages to other languages...

[16:09] Simon Linden: It

[16:09] Simon Linden: It's with AlertMessage messages ... they come in 2 flavors

[16:09] Simon Linden: The basic one just has some info, along with the string to display ... something like "You can't do that"

[16:10] Toysoldier Thor: ohh ok

[16:10] Simon Linden: The enhanced ones, which support localization, have that data plus some extra info -- a tag like "YouCantDoIt", and optionally some parameters

[16:10] Simon Linden: The viewer looks in it's .xml language files for that message tag - if it finds it, it can use the localized version, plus the paramters

[16:11] Simon Linden: So you might get a message in the right language saying "You can't go on the parcel at <1,2,3> because you're not cool enough"

[16:11] Motor Loon: gawd... I get that all the time °?°

[16:11] Baker Linden: it's true; I just finished converting that one

[16:11] Simon Linden: It supports the viewer-side construction of the message so it can use the proper grammar

[16:12] Simon Linden: Anyway, there are a bunch of hard-coded English strings in the simulator still -- I converted over 50 of 'em to use the localizable format

[16:12] Simon Linden: The files for the viewer will get into the release pipeline soon, but that's kind of clogged up now with other releases

[16:13] Simon Linden: Have any of you used the large group support on the beta grid?

[16:14] Rex Cronon: so what happens if u send the japanese version to somebody speaking turkis:)

[16:14] Rex Cronon: turkish*

[16:14] Toysoldier Thor: no but how could u even test that large group in a beta grid?

[16:14] Simon Linden: We imported at least one group that had over 10,000 members

[16:14] Toysoldier Thor: wait till it gets in production where the groups of 10,000 test it out

[16:15] Simon Linden: We usually like to test things _before_ it gets into production, which is why I'm asking :P

[16:15] Toysoldier Thor: one of the groups i am part of has a membership of 7209

[16:16] Simon Linden: Anyway, if anyone gets a chance to try that out, that'd be great. It requires a special project viewer build also

[16:16] Baker Linden: any size group can be tested as well

[16:17] Baker Linden: it all goes through the same code path now

[16:17] Simon Linden: Right, we'd like to confirm normal sized groups work as expected too

[16:17] Simon Linden: What's the cut-over for the large group size?

[16:17] Baker Linden: 10k

[16:17] Simon Linden: ah, ok

[16:17] Baker Linden: in an old viewer, any groups > 10k members will not have their group load

[16:17] Toysoldier Thor: when do u see this on the production grids

[16:18] Simon Linden: It's planned for the RC channels next week

[16:18] Motor Loon: excellent

[16:18] Simon Linden: I think that's it for news ... so the virtual table is open for topics

[16:19] Theresa Tennyson: How soon will the megagroups stop loading for the dino... people using older viewers?

[16:19] Simon Linden: They don't load now, unfortunately

[16:20] Toysoldier Thor: can I ask a somewhat related topic on inworld limits...... A MAJOR and grid-wide major pain in the ass is the limits of offline messages/notices. WHY cant LL remove this limit? What is so hard about at least raising the limit to 100 so this annoying limit is removed? Residents avoid groups because of too many daily notices

[16:20] Baker Linden: Any groups larger than 10,000 members will no longer load with a legacy viewer.

[16:21] Motor Loon: Actually I'd second Toy's suggestion... I'm usually capped EVERY day

[16:21] Baker Linden: sorry, I misread Theresa's question. They'll stop loading soon, as it'll be in RC next week.

[16:21] Toysoldier Thor: such a simple improvement with such a huge improvement in grid experience

[16:22] Simon Linden: Toysoldier - the original limits were put in to avoid two problems - the database getting too much load, and upon login, you getting blasted with too many messages

[16:22] Toysoldier Thor: but based on old DB limits?

[16:22] Simon Linden: Both problems could be improved, I think, but I'm blowing smoke saying that - I haven't looked at the real load now or code

[16:23] Nalates Urriah: Baker, does that mean as soon as a region has the Lerge Group update, old viewers stop loading large groups?

[16:23] Motor Loon: Viewer can certainly handle more msg than the cap allows for.

[16:23] Toysoldier Thor: if LL announced this limit as Gone you all might get a big kiss from most Residents (handshake from me)

[16:23] Theresa Tennyson: Could you separate group notices from IM's from individuals?

[16:23] Simon Linden: Yes - I assume someone's been asking at other user groups or some place because our product guys were asking about that earlier this week. It's a good thing to check out

[16:24] Motor Loon: neat-o

[16:24] Simon Linden: We won't just remove the limit. Any time we do that things blow up. But it _may_ be possible to raise it and make it more rare for IMs to get capped

[16:24] Motor Loon: nods

[16:24] Motor Loon: that'd be fine

[16:24] Baker Linden: That's correct, Nal

[16:24] Toysoldier Thor: its one of the grids most annoying limits and seems easy to fix now - so I hope you can fix it

[16:24] Nalates Urriah: Thx

[16:25] Toysoldier Thor: exactly Simon

[16:25] Toysoldier Thor: just raise it

[16:25] Theresa Tennyson: Won't people need a new, non-existing viewer to load large groups once the change to large groups hits the RC's?

[16:25] Nalates Urriah: Simon if you raise the limit, could we get a Delete All button or something?

[16:26] Toysoldier Thor: thumbs up on that Nal

[16:26] Motor Loon: v2+ already has that Nal... atleast sorta

[16:26] Motor Loon: you got the "close all" when you rightclick the "talk bubble" in the corner

[16:26] Baker Linden: I've put in a ticket to get my viewer changes into a release coordinating with the release of that. I'll have to see how it syncs up

[16:26] Simon Linden: Nal - that sounds like a good idea but I'm pretty rough when it comes to viewer development. I'm not sure where I'd put that button

[16:26] Baker Linden: Additionally, Firestorm has the changes in their codebase already

[16:26] Nalates Urriah: Motor, I guess I missed that I'll have look

[16:27] Theresa Tennyson muses that one of the best sources of decent free skins is also a source of endless notices about concerts in Japanese.

[16:27] Toysoldier Thor: raising the limit is an easy background change

[16:27] Nalates Urriah: Thx Motor. I had not noticed that.

[16:27] Simon Linden: We have a lot of numbers that are easy to change, Toysoldier, that also can have really bad effects on the grid :)

[16:28] Theresa Tennyson: Baker, will the changes also help with notices that never arrive?

[16:28] Motor Loon: Probably a healthy approach that nothing is an "easy fix"... once you belive that, the bugs pile up real quick

[16:29] Baker Linden: Nothing but the member list is affected, for good or bad.

[16:29] Simon Linden: Right Motor ... after I started here, all it took was a couple of roll-backs due to my code to make me paranoid

[16:29] Motor Loon: hehe

[16:29] Simon Linden: To echo Baker - it's just the viewer's reading of the member list, so sending to the group is not affected

[16:29] Toysoldier Thor: well if LL could confirm the load impact and then decide the raise - just raise it up 10 at a time each week

[16:30] Toysoldier Thor: and monitor the load for each increment

[16:30] Simon Linden: That might be a good idea, Toysoldier ... just take it slow and watch the load and repercussions

[16:30] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is half over

[16:30] Toysoldier Thor: exactly

[16:31] Toysoldier Thor: just a thought

[16:32] Simon Linden: I'll pass it along to the product guys and see what they think

[16:32] Toysoldier Thor: PS... the llSetTextureAnim bug.... thanks for getting action on this.... this bug is being worked on this past week and a SL Forums thread is up to talk about the fix

[16:33] Simon Linden: Do you have a link? I don't know the bug number

[16:33] Toysoldier Thor: let me hunt it down.....

[16:33] Simon Linden: I guess if it's getting attention it may not need discussion here

[16:34] Toysoldier Thor: also... there is another very annoying bug on the NOTICE ATTACHMENTS not working on all V3 based viewers. I guess this is not the forum to get action on this jira.... but wow this needs to be fixed

[16:34] Toysoldier Thor: Attachments to group notices malfunction after some time

[16:34] Toysoldier Thor: brb

[16:34] Motor Loon: you can always pick it up on the group panel I belive though, as a "workaround"

[16:34] Simon Linden: yeah, I know that bug - isn't that the one where a landmark in a group notice stops working?

[16:34] Nalates Urriah: Man, that is such a pain. It will get worse of the message cap raises.

[16:35] Nalates Urriah: Yes Simon, and NC fail to open and pictures don't go in to inventory...

[16:35] Theresa Tennyson suspects that the messaging system was designed by Canada Post.

[16:35] Motor Loon: lol

[16:36] Simon Linden: We always blame Lindens that have left the company

[16:36] Motor Loon: clever

[16:36] Toysoldier Thor: lol

[16:36] Toysoldier Thor: and being canadian - I know !

[16:36] Toysoldier Thor: the failed attachments is impacting how ppl go to live events

[16:37] Toysoldier Thor: because they cannot click on the LM

[16:37] Simon Linden: Right, I've hit that exact case

[16:37] Toysoldier Thor: even if they go into the notices tab

[16:37] Toysoldier Thor: SVC-7129

[16:37] Simon Linden: I know that bug has come up several times before ... I'm pretty sure someone investigated it. I'm not sure what's going on or why it's taken so long for a fix ... that doesn't bode well

[16:39] Toysoldier Thor: seems like a corrupted session cache

[16:39] Toysoldier Thor: just a guess

[16:39] Simon Linden: I'm going to bump that one up to a higher priority internally - it really should get at least an investigation

[16:40] Simon Linden: btw, all that means is it's likely to get some eyeballs sooner, no promises, your mileage may vary, etc etc

[16:40] Nalates Urriah: Even some news on whats up with it would help

[16:40] Toysoldier Thor:

[16:40] JIRA-helper:

[#STORM-1909] Texture animations ignore repeats per face (llTextureAnim()) - Second Life Bug Tracker

[16:41] Toysoldier Thor: ohh cool... posting the forum link made the helper point to the locked up JIRA

[16:41] Motor Loon: °?°

[16:42] Motor Loon: how come your jirahelper aint doing the 404 like Oskar's does Simon?

[16:42] Simon Linden: I think the STORM bugs work OK

[16:43] Motor Loon: aah

[16:43] Simon Linden: Those are still open

[16:43] Simon Linden: but ones like SVC-42 are not

[16:43] Rex Cronon: how come can the jira-helper still work?

[16:43] Nalates Urriah: Oskar's doesn't

[16:44] Motor Loon: apparently this one is broken too Rex °?°

[16:44] Simon Linden: They all should be broken, since the projects are locked down

[16:45] Rex Cronon: itdoesn't seem broken to me

[16:45] Simon Linden: I wasn't 100% accurate - there are a few projects like STORM that are still open, so those work

[16:46] Toysoldier Thor: Will LL create a new major Forum category for Bug Discussions?

[16:46] Motor Loon: Probably unlikely

[16:47] Toysoldier Thor: right now Lindens are creating them in the CREATION FORUMS

[16:47] Simon Linden: I'm not the right person to ask or to discuss it ... I do know there are ongoing discussions on how to make jira more workable and get back some of the benefits we had before. I don't know how that will play out

[16:47] Theresa Tennyson: And if there's a widespread unexpected bug like SVC-8124 will we hear about it somehow?

[16:48] Motor Loon: Nothing wrong with making a forum post yourself on an issue

[16:48] Simon Linden: I hope so, Theresa. Jira wasn't a good way to broadcast information, but it previously allowed people to find others with similar problems

[16:48] Rex Cronon: motor. i didn't see your question before mine. i was busy testing if jira was loagind on my browser:)

[16:48] Motor Loon: no worries

[16:49] Rex Cronon: loading*

[16:49] Simon Linden: Things are getting quiet ... are there any other questions or topics, or should we end a little early today?

[16:49] Theresa Tennyson: What's the status of the threaded region crossing project?

[16:50] Toysoldier Thor: no i cant think of anything........ did i mention raising the IM limits?

[16:50] Toysoldier Thor: ohh yes i did

[16:50] Toysoldier Thor: hehe

[16:50] Simon Linden: We hope to get it moving again, Theresa. It's been stalled for a bit but needs some fixes before it's ready for RC again

[16:51] Motor Loon: That fact that we dont all have 100 issues to talk about must be a very good thing eh

[16:51] Motor Loon: Good job guys ,-)

[16:51] Theresa Tennyson: Also, vehicles not being able to cross regions if they go into a full parcel is still happening frequently.

[16:51] Simon Linden: I hope that's a good sign

[16:52] Baker Linden: there's also only 7 of y'all... well, we call you "normies" :P (We really don't call you normies).

[16:52] Toysoldier Thor: lol

[16:52] Toysoldier Thor: well then.... back to RL

[16:52] Motor Loon: I've been called alot worse °?°

[16:52] Toysoldier Thor: thanks a lot Lindens

[16:52] Simon Linden: Right Theresa, I think that vehicle problem still happens

[16:52] Toysoldier Thor: cant wait to see no offline IM Caps next week

[16:53] Toysoldier Thor: ;)

[16:53] Simon Linden: lol, don't hold your breath on that, Toy

[16:53] Toysoldier Thor: snikker

[16:53] Simon Linden: Ok, let's call it ... thanks everyone for coming and the good chat today

[16:53] Toysoldier Thor: ok


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