User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-20

Topic & Summary

User Experience Interest Group Discussion for August 20, 2009.

Topic: Featurette Brainstorming.

Summary

We brainstormed many ideas for "featurettes" (small features) that would improve the SL user experience:

• Context menus (with copy & paste, etc.) for text entry fields.
• Spell checking for text entry fields (VWR-5447).
• Custom "Gadgets" in the UI.
• Various featurettes from Meerkat and Emerald viewers.
• Fade to black or white when teleporting.
• Advertisement/vendor blocker/hider.
• Highlight vendors selling items in a certain price range.
• Ability to select and cycle through interactive (touchable/buyable) prims by joystick, arrow keys, or tab key.
• 3D world map or mini map.
• Name tags on mini map.
• Ability to copy text being displayed in tooltips.
• Show friends' profile images in the friends list.
• Aliases/shortcuts/symlinks for inventory items. (A frequent request!)
• More attachment points.
• Worn inventory tab (VWR-2199). (LL's viewers are probably the only ones that don't have this feature yet.)
• Alternative ways to view inventory, like MacOS X's Finder, Windows Explorer, etc.
• Options to display more inventory properties, e.g. dates, permissions, creator.
• Incoming inventory filters to sort incoming items, similar to GMail's filters.
• Scratch for Second Life integration.
• Regular expressions matching, line highlighting, brace/parenthesis matching in the script editor.
• Code completion in the script editor. E.g. autocomplete for event and function arguments, as well as arguments for parameters to llSetPrimitiveParams, etc.
• Whiteboards. (Another frequent request!)

Transcript

[15:18]	Jacek Antonelli:	Let's get started. Today we're basically brainstorming ideas for "featurettes" -- small features that would improve the SL user experience
[15:18]	Morgaine Dinova:	Cool
[15:18]	Jacek Antonelli:	Should be fun times!
[15:18]	Jacek Antonelli:	We'll probably cover some areas that we've talked about in the past, but that's fine
[15:18]	Geneko Nemeth:	Small features... how about text edit controls have context menus that have copy and paste in them.
[15:18]	Morgaine Dinova:	Lot of new featurettes are possible with LL's new LLMediaPlugin system
[15:19]	Geneko Nemeth doesn't really want to hear about LLMediaPlugin... but still.
[15:19]	Charlette Proto:	I had an idea of having gadgets in Second Life™ UI
[15:19]	Jacek Antonelli:	That's a great one, Geneko!
[15:19]	Jacek Antonelli:	I always wondered why there are no context menus for text entry boxes. Shouldn't be too much work, either
[15:19]	Jacek Antonelli:	Good small feature
[15:19]	Geneko Nemeth:	Gadgets could be powered by client side scripting...
[15:20]	Jacek Antonelli:	What sort of gadgets were you thinking, Charlette?
[15:20]	Mealea Ying:	spell checker, the ability to edit text quickly and not have it tied to rendering (if thats whats causing the problem) and every thing in Meerkat, and emerald..... also being able to impose windlight settings via land tools OR by hud
[15:20]	Geneko Nemeth:	Well, I've been thinking about the menu one long ago when I had that pie menu mockup.
[15:20]	Geneko Nemeth:	Spell checker!!
[15:20]	Charlette Proto:	I like the idea of maximising context menu on everything
[15:20]	Geneko Nemeth:	Me too! Whoohoo! Go context pie menu!
[15:21]	Jacek Antonelli:	Spell checker is another good one!
[15:21]	Morgaine Dinova:	Gadgets can be even more powerful now than just using our old client-side scripting idea, since they can harness the llMedia junk too now, or will
[15:21]	Mealea Ying:	hmmmm pie menu, bag that for standard windows, and give the ability to turn off transparent windows, ajust font sizes in everything and change fonts as well
[15:21]	Charlette Proto:	yeah I mean gadgets as in clientside code not LSL
[15:21]	Mealea Ying:	hehehe
[15:21]	Aimee Trescothick:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-5447
[15:21]	Geneko Nemeth:	Do you think they would put a HTML5 canvas plugin in the viewer?
[15:21]	Mealea Ying:	menu not window sorry
[15:22]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hope now. A canvas doesn't provide integration. It's not different to the built-in browser
[15:22]	Morgaine Dinova:	Nope not*
[15:23]	Geneko Nemeth:	Point. Without DOM and scripting, a canvas isn't going to do much by itself.
[15:23]	Jacek Antonelli:	I'd think the canvas support would be part of the normal browser plugin
[15:23]	Geneko Nemeth:	Besides teleport screensavers we talked last time, how about fading to black/white when teleporting? Not sure if that counts as a feature, though.
[15:23]	Jacek Antonelli:	I suppose someone could make a canvas-only plugin though... hrmm. But we're getting a bit off track of featurettes
[15:23]	Charlette Proto:	the browser should be more comliant, but eg flash would remain a problem
[15:24]	Jacek Antonelli:	Sure, that counts Gen, hehe
[15:24]	Geneko Nemeth:	Who needs flash when you have HTML5 anyway?
[15:24]	Morgaine Dinova:	I've never seen the need for a spellchecker plugin. Moybee I jost shpell two wel.
[15:24]	Aimee Trescothick:	yeah, the normal browser plug-in is now QtWebKit based
[15:24]	Jacek Antonelli grins at Gen
[15:24]	Geneko Nemeth:	So little improvements count too?
[15:24]	Mealea Ying:	I do, I spell so baddly though that spell checkers dont know what Im talking about
[15:24]	Charlette Proto:	I don't like flash myself, but most people will not use built in browser till it does youtube
[15:25]	Mealea Ying:	it does do youtube
[15:25]	Geneko Nemeth:	Firefox will never do HTML5 Youtube support
[15:25]	Geneko Nemeth:	Firefox's on the OGG/Theora bandwagon while Google's on the H.264 one.
[15:25]	Geneko Nemeth:	Apple and Microsoft are on neither.
[15:25]	Geneko Nemeth:	I'm not sure about Opera.
[15:26]	Charlette Proto:	I understand, but users need youtube hehe
[15:26]	Geneko Nemeth:	It's so sad... T_T
[15:26]	Charlette Proto:	you know tube is the thing non-tech crowd shares like it is a disese
[15:27]	Mealea Ying:	youtube works here, in fact I can show you a great example
[15:27]	Geneko Nemeth:	Google has the advantage of owing both Youtube and developed Chrome...
[15:27]	Geneko Nemeth:	And the disadvantage that Chrome is used by not much people.
[15:27]	Geneko Nemeth:	Anyway, the meeting is off rails again!
[15:27]	Aimee Trescothick:	my RL TV just got a firmware update to stream youtube directly from the net
[15:27]	Mealea Ying:	I still havent tried chrome, does it get rid of adds like firefox does?
[15:28]	Aimee Trescothick:	it's getting everywhere
[15:28]	Charlette Proto:	back to futurettes, could Gadgets (plugins with UI) be easily integrated into GL rendering stream
[15:28]	Morgaine Dinova:	They'll merge in time. The big problem is the proprietary Sorensen plugin that everyone uses with H.264. That makes Linux viewer support for video almost nonexistent in practice --- it works, but not with the majority of videos.
[15:28]	Geneko Nemeth:	Google live on ads, but they'll add an adblocker sooner or later.
[15:28]	Mealea Ying:	ahhhh I will wait for that
[15:29]	Morgaine Dinova:	Charlette: that's a good question. In principle, sure, you could dynamically load a rendering type. In practice ... more complicated
[15:29]	Mealea Ying:	heres a feature in the same line of thought, an add/vendor blocker for SL
[15:30]	Morgaine Dinova:	Mealea: blocking by items, or by vendor owner, or what?
[15:30]	Mealea Ying:	I havent a clue honestly, I dont think its feasable honestly
[15:30]	Mealea Ying:	but I want it
[15:31]	Mealea Ying:	hehe
[15:31]	Jacek Antonelli:	hehehe
[15:31]	Morgaine Dinova:	Would be nice to have a vendor blocker that blocks everything except products in a certain price range, for example
[15:31]	Geneko Nemeth:	Will you settle for a highlighter?
[15:31]	Charlette Proto:	efficient and non buggy UI rendering would be a hard part with Gadgets, but it may be a good way to describe some of our earlier ideas on HUD etc event interface clientside
[15:31]	Morgaine Dinova:	But don't think that's doable --- would need a metadata scan on all items
[15:31]	Mealea Ying:	I just want it so I dont have to rez a million things I dont want
[15:31]	Morgaine Dinova:	Yeah
[15:32]	Geneko Nemeth:	A not-so-small feature I want is selecting items with joystick.
[15:32]	Jacek Antonelli:	What would that be like, Gen?
[15:32]	Mealea Ying:	I dont have one so I dident know that wasent possible
[15:32]	Geneko Nemeth:	Kinda like one of the RPG demos I played... basically you've got this place that has a lot of stuff on sale...
[15:33]	Geneko Nemeth:	And you could use the D-Pad on the game controller to focus on one of them, and touch it by pushing the A button (for example).
[15:34]	Geneko Nemeth:	It's a first step to make SL behave like a console game.
[15:34]	Jacek Antonelli:	Ah. So like if there's a wall of items to buy, pressing Right on the directional pad would select the item to the right of the selected one, etc?
[15:34]	Mealea Ying:	soo..... ok, can you shoot while using a joystick?
[15:34]	Geneko Nemeth:	Yup~
[15:34]	Mealea Ying:	but you cant .......... huh.... ok
[15:34]	Geneko Nemeth:	Also a step to making Sl more accessible to disabled people.
[15:35]	Geneko Nemeth:	But of course, this fails for vendors that puts a touch event in the root prim.
[15:35]	Geneko Nemeth:	So many prims, each with so many faces, which one are you supposed to be touching again?
[15:35]	Jacek Antonelli:	Hrm. Yeah, it would be really tricky with the current architecture. But maybe the cursor could be driven by the joystick?
[15:36]	Jacek Antonelli:	mouse cursor, that is
[15:36]	Geneko Nemeth:	Mouse cursor? That's too awkward...
[15:36]	Geneko Nemeth:	Maybe in addition to the mouse cursor there would be a joystick cursor.
[15:36]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yeah
[15:36]	Geneko Nemeth:	Haha, what is that?
[15:37]	Mealea Ying:	does this work with a joystic?
[15:37]	Charlette Proto:	I think there should be some metadata defining the active objects inworld (there is in Beacons) which can be used
[15:37]	Geneko Nemeth:	Definitely not.
[15:37]	Aimee Trescothick:	cursor for each hand and another for eye tracking :P
[15:37]	Mealea Ying:	huh....
[15:37]	Jacek Antonelli:	Aimee: and one for thought tracking...
[15:37]	Geneko Nemeth:	Unless you make it pop up a menu for viewers that don't send UVW data for touches...
[15:37]	Aimee Trescothick:	ah, I wouldn't need one of those
[15:37]	Geneko Nemeth:	One for voice recognition?
[15:37]	Geneko Nemeth:	or screen readers?
[15:38]	Geneko Nemeth:	Okay, that's definitely not in featurette realm anymore >_<
[15:38]	Charlette Proto:	a great featurette would be to track what one is thinking of hehe
[15:38]	Geneko Nemeth:	Small, small stuff...
[15:38]	Morgaine Dinova:	Somebody should come out with a finger-point interface. If they can detect facial expressions with a webcam, you'd think detecting a pointing finger and placing a mark on the screen wouldn't be too hard.
[15:38]	Jacek Antonelli:	Charlette: Good point about the metadata for "active" objects and beacons. It may already be possible to narrow down the possibilities to just the active objects
[15:39]	Geneko Nemeth:	Charlette said what I thought!
[15:39]	Aimee Trescothick:	sounds like the Wii controller
[15:39]	Geneko Nemeth:	It would be just touchable objects.
[15:39]	Mealea Ying:	it seems to me that shootin is about the same thing as clicking on something...... but I don know how joysticks work
[15:39]	Aimee Trescothick:	only without the controller
[15:39]	Charlette Proto:	yeah active script objects obviously are visible on their own as is
[15:39]	Geneko Nemeth:	Sounds... no, nothing about Wii Remote, although support for that wouldn't be bad either.
[15:39]	Charlette Proto:	just 'tab' between them with joystick or arrows etc
[15:39]	Geneko Nemeth:	Exactly.
[15:39]	Jacek Antonelli:	yeah
[15:40]	Jacek Antonelli:	Okay, let's step back a bit and talk about some more featurettes
[15:40]	Charlette Proto:	the beacons are already mapped to the 2D screen positions
[15:40]	Geneko Nemeth:	World map that tilts?
[15:40]	Jacek Antonelli:	Tilts?
[15:40]	Mealea Ying:	oooo!!!!!
[15:40]	Morgaine Dinova:	Make the water run off
[15:41]	Aimee Trescothick:	2.5D world map, discussed that here before
[15:41]	Mealea Ying:	like google earth?!?!
[15:41]	Charlette Proto:	name tags etc on the 'mini-map' would be nice
[15:41]	Geneko Nemeth:	Marauder's Map!
[15:41]	Aimee Trescothick:	anyone remember the game "Elite" ?
[15:41]	Jacek Antonelli:	haha, okay
[15:41]	Charlette Proto:	ah elevations Aimee?
[15:41]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yep
[15:41]	Mealea Ying:	they are on the mini map in a bunch of 3rd party viewers
[15:41]	Aimee Trescothick:	that did it in the 80's :)
[15:42]	Charlette Proto:	don't make me remember the 80's Aimee
[15:42]	Morgaine Dinova:	My friends use to rave about elite. I'd just sit on the sofa and drink their wine.
[15:42]	Mealea Ying:	hehehehehehehehe
[15:42]	Aimee Trescothick:	well, you can get name tags on hover on the minimap already
[15:42]	Charlette Proto:	can you get name tags? how?
[15:42]	Geneko Nemeth:	"Anyone saying Voldemort's name would send out a 'ping' on his mini-map, so as to speak"... I wonder if there would be some kind of event that the user would want to see on the mini-map? (That was a solution looking for a problem.)
[15:43]	Charlette Proto:	besides pointing at a given one
[15:43]	Aimee Trescothick:	just hover over the dots, get it as a tooltip
[15:43]	Geneko Nemeth:	"Our town is under attack!"
[15:43]	Charlette Proto:	yup, but I mean have them optionally all visible
[15:43]	Aimee Trescothick:	that would get a bit cluttered having them all all the time
[15:43]	Geneko Nemeth:	*snap* like when someone teleports in!
[15:43]	Mealea Ying:	that could require a less than mini map
[15:43]	Morgaine Dinova:	I don't like hover/mouseover with anything, because I can pick up the data to paste
[15:43]	Morgaine Dinova:	can't* pick up
[15:44]	Mealea Ying:	theres a good feature right there BlooKitty
[15:44]	Charlette Proto:	I realise, but they could be practical (as an option) as a form of radar
[15:44]	Geneko Nemeth:	You could put a "copy name" context menu item to the minimap dots.
[15:44]	Aimee Trescothick:	but having an av radar attached that you can click a name and highlight that person on the map would probably be more useful
[15:44]	Geneko Nemeth:	*snap* right!
[15:44]	Charlette Proto:	good point Gen
[15:44]	Geneko Nemeth should record a finger snapping sound.
[15:44]	Charlette Proto:	context everywhere
[15:45]	Mealea Ying:	Emerald uses the information provided by the minimap to give you one of the best radars in SL
[15:45]	Jacek Antonelli:	Hrm. There's a featurette idea -- a way to "stick" the tooltip so that it could be copied+pasted.
[15:45]	Geneko Nemeth:	One of the online games I played had a menu option on other characters to copy their names, probably to faciliate adding to friends list and abuse reports...
[15:45]	Aimee Trescothick:	well, hit profile on the context menu and copy it out of the profile window ;)
[15:45]	Geneko Nemeth:	*snap*
[15:45]	Morgaine Dinova:	Jacek: that would be cool
[15:45]	Charlette Proto:	that is what I mean Mealena, but I hate the Emerald lag etc
[15:46]	Mealea Ying:	thats what I was saying blookitty about your comment being a good feature
[15:46]	Charlette Proto:	'Copy Text' in a context menu for tooltips
[15:46]	Mealea Ying:	emerald does not create lag, that is a prepostrous myth
[15:46]	Geneko Nemeth:	.... it's probably not a tooltip if you could click on it.
[15:47]	Charlette Proto:	don't want to talk about that (Emerald) now
[15:47]	Mealea Ying:	I bet
[15:47]	Mealea Ying grins
[15:47]	Jacek Antonelli:	Geneko: hence the idea of "sticking" it, with a key combo for example
[15:47]	Charlette Proto:	switch Mealea and you'll get 2x FPS
[15:47]	Jacek Antonelli:	What other featurettes?
[15:47]	Mealea Ying:	to what the SL viewer?
[15:47]	Geneko Nemeth:	Hmmm... I'm sure someone said this one before, but
[15:48]	Geneko Nemeth:	Putting profile pics in friend list.
[15:48]	Aimee Trescothick:	need tooltips on tooltips to explain what they are
[15:48]	Jacek Antonelli:	heh, Aimee
[15:48]	Mealea Ying:	hehehe Aimee!
[15:48]	Charlette Proto:	Snow is twice as fast as Emerald and I've seen it on a huge nuber of machines
[15:48]	Geneko Nemeth:	Or even better, render a picture of what they were wearing last time when you saw them and put *that* into the friends list.
[15:48]	Jacek Antonelli:	There's an idea, Gen
[15:48]	Morgaine Dinova:	Geneko: nice idea
[15:48]	Mealea Ying:	snow is a 90+% fps drop on mine
[15:48]	Jacek Antonelli:	LL would hate the extra asset load, though. hehehe
[15:48]	Geneko Nemeth:	It's not a featuette but it's not a big one.
[15:48]	Charlette Proto:	but where would the pics be stored gen? clientside only
[15:49]	Geneko Nemeth:	Clientside only.
[15:49]	Jacek Antonelli:	(of downloading profile pics)
[15:49]	Mealea Ying:	15fps to 0.2 or worse
[15:49]	Geneko Nemeth:	Profile pics? Put a copy of the friends list locally and put the UUID of the pics there. The actual pics go into the cache as usua.
[15:49]	Morgaine Dinova:	Mealea: it seems to be dependent on platform and maybe card. Some say Snowglobe much faster, some say much slower. very odd
[15:50]	Jacek Antonelli:	Geneko: Sure, cacheing the last profile pic you saw would be feasible. And maybe check from time to time to see if it has changed.
[15:50]	Mealea Ying:	I have ATI and other ATI users say its better some say worse, but Im finding that its worse for me, the regular LL bviewer is too
[15:50]	Charlette Proto:	don't want Emerald wars here, but I spend enough time in a welcome area to know Snow is much faster than Emerald
[15:50]	Mealea Ying:	rainbow is the fastest by far
[15:51]	Jacek Antonelli:	Let's drop the viewer performance fights, please. We're talking about featurettes
[15:51]	Charlette Proto:	yes please no more Emerald today
[15:51]	Jacek Antonelli:	How about Inventory? Any small features worth mentioning that would improve Inventory? I'm sure we've talked about lots of them in the past
[15:51]	Mealea Ying:	ok, well either way, there are a ton of features in Meerkat and Emerald that a lot of people find indispensible
[15:52]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yep, good point Mealea. There certainly are
[15:52]	Geneko Nemeth:	As it stands though LL already has a page where you can see all the friend's pics... all online friends anyway.
[15:52]	Geneko Nemeth:	But who uses that?
[15:52]	Mealea Ying:	I would love to be able to alias items in my inventory (like shortcuts in windows)
[15:52]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hiya Garn!
[15:52]	Jacek Antonelli:	Good point, Gen
[15:52]	Jacek Antonelli:	heya Garn!
[15:52]	Garn Conover:	i swear i always forget
[15:52]	Charlette Proto:	previews for inventory and additional attributes eg custom tabs
[15:52]	Garn Conover:	Jacek, what XML file controls the profiles for other ppl?
[15:52]	Jacek Antonelli:	Garn: you should set up a reminder with google calendar :) I set up a calendar with the meetings on it
[15:53]	Morgaine Dinova:	Garn: talking about Featurettes today
[15:53]	Charlette Proto:	yup I've always been after aliases/symlinks/shortcuts for inventory
[15:53]	Garn Conover:	im trying out the new Emerald
[15:53]	Mealea Ying:	they would be fantastic
[15:53]	Garn Conover:	oh wow winy meeting lmao
[15:53]	Garn Conover:	tiny*
[15:53]	Mealea Ying:	we arnt alowed to talk about Emerald
[15:53]	Charlette Proto:	gosh please keep Emerald to yourself Garn (we know everyone is gray to you)
[15:53]	Morgaine Dinova:	I emerged Techwolf's Emerald ebuild last night, haven't tried it yet.
[15:53]	Garn Conover:	lmao
[15:53]	Mealea Ying giggles
[15:54]	Mealea Ying:	its inescapeable
[15:54]	Jacek Antonelli:	hehe
[15:54]	Jacek Antonelli:	Okay, aliases/symlinks in inventory. What else?
[15:54]	Mealea Ying:	more atachment points
[15:54]	Garn Conover:	yea!
[15:54]	Jacek Antonelli:	Worn tab is an old one, I was poking fun at Torley a little bit because the regular viewer doesn't have it yet
[15:54]	Charlette Proto:	so how about inventory aliases to items to use in outfits and collections instead of moving or copying items
[15:54]	Mealea Ying:	flexi prims with physics
[15:55]	Mealea Ying:	SL wind with friction
[15:55]	Garn Conover:	shadows w/o alpha glitch? lol
[15:55]	Charlette Proto:	'Worn' is the best thing in Imprudence - everyone loves it, just make a user specified (with logic) tab as well
[15:55]	Morgaine Dinova:	How about a checkbox labelled "Stop these idiotic inventory folders opening and closing by themselves".
[15:55]	Charlette Proto:	GARN FFS
[15:55]	Mealea Ying:	Charlette that what I ment
[15:56]	Charlette Proto:	Mealea I've talked about that for a year now
[15:56]	Geneko Nemeth:	Pane browsing for inventory like Finder and Dolphin?
[15:56]	Mealea Ying:	me too only more like 2
[15:56]	Charlette Proto:	also dispaly of other attributes (optional) like a real filesystem
[15:57]	Morgaine Dinova:	I'm surprised that the other viewer's haven't picked up Imprudence's "Worn" tab.
[15:57]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yeah, alternate views of inventory wolud be interesting
[15:57]	Charlette Proto:	eg dates, permissions (hide) author
[15:57]	Jacek Antonelli:	Morgaine: haven't they? It's just a patch on viewer, I thought other viewers had it too for a long time
[15:57]	Mealea Ying:	they have, its in rainbow, cool viewer, meer kat, the one we arnt supposed to talk about and a few others
[15:57]	Jacek Antonelli:	*patch on JIRA
[15:58]	Morgaine Dinova:	Jacek: maybe they have, and I just haven't seen it
[15:58]	Garn Conover:	Emerald doesn't ehich surprised me
[15:58]	Mealea Ying:	all of them that I know of has it other than the LL viewers
[15:58]	Charlette Proto:	GARN!!!!!!!
[15:58]	Garn Conover:	or wait yea it does
[15:58]	Mealea Ying:	yes it does
[15:58]	Garn Conover:	there was a blog post about them not having it yet musta been an old one
[15:58]	Garn Conover:	yes Charlette?
[15:58]	Mealea Ying:	ok I have an interesting one
[15:58]	Jacek Antonelli:	Here's another featurette -- filters for incoming inventory, to sort them into folders you want, like Gmail has
[15:59]	Mealea Ying:	one second
[15:59]	Garn Conover:	ooh
[15:59]	Garn Conover:	friends -= normal sort or others = SPAM
[15:59]	Mealea Ying:	has anyone here seen Scratch For Second Life
[15:59]	Charlette Proto:	we trying to keep the discussion to descriptions not involving references to Emerald today
[15:59]	Morgaine Dinova:	Mealea: no, what's that?
[15:59]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yeah, I've seen that Melea, it's kinda neat
[16:00]	Mealea Ying:	well thats hard as it has lept ahead 5 years
[16:00]	Jacek Antonelli:	a visual way of writing scripts, like fitting together puzzle pieces
[16:00]	Morgaine Dinova:	Aha
[16:00]	Garn Conover rolls eyes @ Char
[16:00]	Mealea Ying:	iScratch is an amazing tool,
[16:00]	Garn Conover:	what is it?
[16:00]	Jacek Antonelli:	Guys, you're allowed ot talk about Emerald, I just don't want this meeting to devolve into a "which viewer is best" catfight
[16:00]	Charlette Proto:	is iScratch like MaxESP
[16:01]	Mealea Ying:	people who dont know how to program can make very nice things, unfortiunetly it was never finished
[16:01]	Jacek Antonelli:	Scratch for SL: http://web.mit.edu/~eric_r/Public/S4SL/
[16:01]	Garn Conover:	thats always a downside
[16:01]	Mealea Ying:	http://web.mit.edu/~eric_r/Public/S4SL/
[16:01]	Garn Conover:	Jacek ftw
[16:01]	Jacek Antonelli:	lol
[16:01]	Morgaine Dinova:	That's the idea actually, lot of viewer devs developing ideas, and everyone merging the nicest ones. Emerald is just one of many
[16:02]	Geneko Nemeth:	... aww dang, it sounds like a "click" now.
[16:02]	Charlette Proto:	hehe does Emerald integrate a FIXED Scratch too hehe
[16:02]	Jacek Antonelli:	Melea: So, your suggestion for a featurette is to finish and integate Scratch for SL?
[16:02]	Mealea Ying:	the thing is that it generates all of its POSSIBLE code, not just the stuff you create, and that needs o be fixed, if it were fixed learning how to make scripts would be a simple thing
[16:02]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hehe
[16:02]	Mealea Ying:	yes
[16:03]	Jacek Antonelli:	Cool
[16:03]	Mealea Ying:	if your going to have plugins, make scratch one of them
[16:03]	Garn Conover rolls over on back and enjoys his bewwy wubbs!
[16:03]	Mealea Ying:	it would be awesome
[16:03]	Jacek Antonelli:	McCabe was thinking about that once, but I kinda talked him out of it because we were focussing on generic plugin systems around that same time
[16:03]	Garn Conover:	he stuck in school todau?
[16:03]	Charlette Proto:	but codechecking/optimising (not easy) would have to be included or we will end up with stupid code made by everyone
[16:04]	Jacek Antonelli:	Garn: I think so, yeah. He hasn't been online all day
[16:04]	Mealea Ying:	no, if you are making the interface you controll the code generated
[16:04]	Garn Conover:	no wonder im late its his fault :D
[16:04]	Mealea Ying:	hehehehe!
[16:05]	Geneko Nemeth:	Speaking of code, stuff like RegEx matching, line highlighting or brace matching would be nice.
[16:05]	Jacek Antonelli:	Oh, yeah! Good ones Gen
[16:05]	Morgaine Dinova:	Jacek: interesting that LL has basically gone our route for their media plugins, using separate processes and TCP sockets. I'm looking forward to that.
[16:05]	Charlette Proto:	what did you mean mealea, code validation and optimisation isn't neccessary
[16:05]	Geneko Nemeth:	Anothing that would be nice is docs in multiple languages and actually have formatting, but that isn't a featurette.
[16:06]	Jacek Antonelli:	Morgaine: Wow really? I had no idea they were going that route. I figured they had just done loadable dynamic libraries
[16:06]	Geneko Nemeth:	They are doing both, actually.
[16:06]	Mealea Ying:	well to an extent, I mean someone could make a linten/sensor monster but that could be done anyway
[16:06]	Aimee Trescothick:	it's hard enough getting the docs right in one language :S
[16:06]	Mealea Ying:	but what scratch does is give you building blocks that represent prewritten code
[16:06]	Aimee Trescothick:	but yeah, you do have a very good point
[16:06]	Morgaine Dinova:	Jacek: nope, separate processes, and they're making a point of highlighting features like "when the media plugin dies, it doesn't take the viewer with it".
[16:07]	Jacek Antonelli:	Morgaine: sweet
[16:07]	Mealea Ying:	you build the blocks into your program
[16:07]	Aimee Trescothick:	heh, I've been making corrections to the plug-in docs already lol
[16:07]	Charlette Proto:	but entry price (some knowledge) is necessary now Mealea, so it stops morons from making lag
[16:07]	Geneko Nemeth:	Hmm... that would be rather cool combined with code folding in editor.
[16:07]	Morgaine Dinova:	Aimee: brill!
[16:07]	Geneko Nemeth:	Or griefing.
[16:07]	Jacek Antonelli:	A better LSL docs system would be great. And code completion. I'm sick of typing "listen( integer sender, integer num, string msg, key id )" -- you see, I've had to memorize the order myself!
[16:07]	Mealea Ying:	helll I just want to ba able to change the font size in the editor
[16:08]	Mealea Ying:	hehehe
[16:08]	Geneko Nemeth:	Autocomplete for not just keywords, but function parameters as well.
[16:08]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yes
[16:08]	Mealea Ying:	Jacek! I agree!
[16:08]	Mealea Ying:	its maddning
[16:08]	Charlette Proto:	LSLEditor is great, it gives explanations for all LSL statements it finds in one's code
[16:08]	Geneko Nemeth:	How about an autocomplete that includes user-created routines and variables, kinda like Intellisense?
[16:08]	Mealea Ying:	oh?
[16:09]	Jacek Antonelli:	(Erm, oops, that was actually the arguments for link_message. *sigh*)
[16:09]	Charlette Proto:	good idea Geneko
[16:09]	Geneko Nemeth:	And in-line too. Reaching for a drop-down -> messy.
[16:09]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yes, definitely, Gen
[16:10]	Mealea Ying:	OH!!! I forgot! I want to be able to make EVERYTHING I make be full permision by default, I also want those permisions to never change even after someone else gets it
[16:10]	Charlette Proto:	autocomplete would have to be based on a dropdown floater with all options
[16:10]	Geneko Nemeth:	Might not be a floater because it won't be able to receive focus.
[16:10]	Jacek Antonelli:	Charlette: Not necessarily, it could be like tab completion
[16:10]	Mealea Ying:	that would be my most importanty one, it would alow Davide and I to work on things together
[16:11]	Geneko Nemeth:	Sigh, if only LL could have added some syntatic sugar into LSL.
[16:11]	Charlette Proto:	Mealea, the default permission can be set from contents tab in edit
[16:11]	Jacek Antonelli:	Well, yes. LSL is deficient in many ways. -_-
[16:11]	Geneko Nemeth:	Hurk!
[16:12]	Charlette Proto:	a dropdown list of possible code statements would work well
[16:12]	Mealea Ying:	nope, it changes when someone gives you something back, its infuriating, and that dosent affect things inside objects that are in the object you are working on
[16:12]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yeah. Dropdown list like google suggestions in Firefox
[16:12]	Geneko Nemeth:	Or maybe someting more intelligent, it senses whether the current code wants a function or a value and presents you with the relevant ones.
[16:12]	Charlette Proto:	hehe LSL is a State Machine for strters, that is not really how people thing these days
[16:13]	Charlette Proto:	yes Jacek
[16:13]	Geneko Nemeth:	Especially in APIs with associated constants, it will list these constants first.
[16:14]	Mealea Ying:	basicly what I guess Im saying is that SL is colobration hostile.... oh yah, and BlooKitty wants a whiteboard
[16:14]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yeah, it would be cool if you started to type "llSetPrimitiveParams( [", you could then choose from a list of the parameter types, and then when you selected one, would show you the next things to put for that parameter
[16:14]	Geneko Nemeth:	Whiteboard!
[16:14]	Mealea Ying:	WHITEBOARD!
[16:14]	Jacek Antonelli:	WHIIIIITEBOOOAAARDD
[16:14]	Geneko Nemeth:	... sooner or later someone is going to write a whiteboard plugin for SL.
[16:14]	Charlette Proto:	text (code) entry in the viewer is slow, would autocomplete make it a real crawl
[16:14]	Aimee Trescothick wants a purple board
[16:14]	Geneko Nemeth:	... heck, it would probably be LL or one of its partners like RRR.
[16:14]	Geneko Nemeth:	(Rivers Run Red)
[16:14]	Jacek Antonelli:	hehe, yeah, Aimee showed a sort of whiteboard in her LLMedia demo video
[16:15]	Jacek Antonelli:	I think it was a web site, wasn't it?
[16:15]	Mealea Ying:	thats cause its tied to rendering, itf it were decoupled that would help
[16:15]	Aimee Trescothick:	yeah, that was just http://www.canvaspaint.org
[16:15]	Charlette Proto:	yup agrees with Jacek on primitiveParams
[16:15]	Geneko Nemeth:	Charlette: Autocomplete would only show up when you press a shortcut like Ctrl+/ or Alt+→
[16:15]	Aimee Trescothick:	was kinda cool that I was able to flip it round and draw on the back too :D