Bug triage/2009-01-21/Transcript

Agenda

[14:50] Alexa Linden: Hi Saijanai!
[14:50] Saijanai Kuhn: Hey Alexa
[14:50] Saijanai Kuhn: brb have odd blank spot on second monitor. rebotting
[14:51] Alexa Linden: wow wiki is slowww
[14:51] Alexa Linden: kk
[14:51] Alexa Linden: Hi Patnad :)
[14:51] Patnad Babii: hi how are you guys
[14:51] Alexa Linden: good :)
[14:51] Alexa Linden: welcome to the triage
[14:52] Bambers Linden: pretty good Patnad - welcome!
[14:52] Patnad Babii: yeh i dont come much often to triage meeting thanks :)
[14:52] Alexa Linden: if it ever opens I can paste you the link
[14:52] Bambers Linden: the wed agenda, alexa?
[14:52] Alexa Linden: it crashored ome me!
[14:52] Alexa Linden: ya
[14:52] Bambers Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/Wednesday_Agenda
[14:52] Alexa Linden: show off :P
[14:53] Alexa Linden: so ya.... that's the link Patnad :p
[14:53] Bambers Linden: with only 4 bugs I'd hardly call myself a show-off...
[14:53] Bambers Linden: ;)
[14:53] Patnad Babii: no it crash this link
[14:53] Patnad Babii: [1]
[14:53] Patnad Babii: thats the right one
[14:54] Patnad Babii: oh you had https ;)
[14:54] Alexa Linden: eeew
[14:54] Patnad Babii: my sim got updated today with v1.25.4
[14:54] Alexa Linden: we have a bug by Zen
[14:54] Gellan Glenelg: hi
[14:54] Alexa Linden: Gellan :D
[14:54] Patnad Babii: hello Gellan :)
[14:55] Alexa Linden: welcome to our new Weds. digs!
[14:55] Gellan Glenelg: hmm. demonic tellytubbie?
[14:55] Alexa Linden: please remember to pick up your beer bottles and cheetos bags please
[14:55] Gellan Glenelg: I'z scareded ;P
[14:56] Alexa Linden: nice shoes Gellan
[14:56] Bambers Linden: afternoon
[14:56] Deckard Lebed: thanks, and only $10
[14:56] Bambers Linden: :)
[14:56] Gellan Glenelg: I like them
[14:56] Alexa Linden: me too
[14:56] Bambers Linden: alexa - what ARE you?
[14:57] Alexa Linden: I love hightops
[14:57] Gellan Glenelg: scary
[14:57] Alexa Linden: hovering
[14:57] Bambers Linden: :~|
[14:57] Alexa Linden: wot?
[14:57] Gellan Glenelg: wow - time dilation is all over the place.. is that you?
[14:57] Bambers Linden: nuttin'
[14:57] Alexa Linden: this triaging is seriouser business
[14:57] Alexa Linden: fine for me gellan
[14:58] Alexa Linden: Elllla!
[14:58] Gellan Glenelg: it was 0.34 when I started to say that
[14:58] Ellla McMahon: hello everyone :))
[14:58] Alexa Linden: - 1 L
[14:58] Bambers Linden: Hi Ella
[14:58] Bambers Linden: wow gellan - we're up to 1.21.6 now! ;)
[14:59] Gellan Glenelg: I think we're talking about different numbers :)
[14:59] Bambers Linden: :)
[14:59] Patnad Babii: i have 1.22.5
[14:59] Patnad Babii: i win :P
[14:59] Alexa Linden: I have 25L
[14:59] Bambers Linden: heh heh :~D
[14:59] Gellan Glenelg: nah - I'm on 1.22.6 ;P
[14:59] Patnad Babii: omg
[15:00] Patnad Babii: well its ok my sim is on 1.25.4 ehehe
[15:00] Bambers Linden: here's our agenda - https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/Wednesday_Agenda
[15:00] Alexa Linden: so.......
[15:00] Alexa Linden: shall we start and finish the 4 before anyone appears?
[15:00] Bambers Linden: and it's 3pm and we only have a few
[15:00] Gellan Glenelg: should be finished in 10 mins :)
[15:00] Alexa Linden: ready and Go!
[15:00] Alexa Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11348
[15:01] Alexa Linden: Non-linguistic symbols only appear to work on Windows Vista
[15:01] Alexa Linden: triaged last week
[15:01] Patnad Babii: its wrong they work in windows 7 too eheh
[15:01] Gellan Glenelg: hmm. we discussed this at length, last week
[15:01] Bambers Linden: we did
[15:01] Gellan Glenelg: they work on XP
[15:01] Alexa Linden: adn 1 vote
[15:01] Alexa Linden: and*
[15:02] Bambers Linden: yes
[15:02] Alexa Linden: add last triaged date and wait for votes
[15:02] Gellan Glenelg: so, maybe change title do "do not work on mac (and linux?)
[15:02] Gellan Glenelg: ?
[15:03] Alexa Linden: Garn!
[15:03] Bambers Linden: yeah, I'd agree.
[15:03] Alexa Linden: k
[15:03] Garn Conover: 'Lexa!
[15:03] Bambers Linden: Hi Garn, you made it!
[15:03] Garn Conover: i didn;t realize u moved
[15:03] Garn Conover: :P
[15:03] Alexa Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11581
[15:03] Bambers Linden: :)
[15:03] Alexa Linden: you track me garn?!?!?
[15:03] Soap Clawtooth: Helloooo!
[15:03] Alexa Linden: O.o
[15:03] Bambers Linden: Hi Soap
[15:04] Soap Clawtooth: Hey bambers. :)
[15:04] Garn Conover: no aksed Bambers to tp me sicne i crashed the 1st tienm i tried
[15:04] Soap Clawtooth: Alexa :)
[15:04] Garn Conover: i wish i could stalk ya ;)
[15:04] Alexa Linden: Hi Soap :)
[15:04] Soap Clawtooth: Garn. Down boy.
[15:04] Soap Clawtooth: chuckles.
[15:04] Alexa Linden: we're on https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11581
[15:04] Gellan Glenelg: I spoke to some long-term residents, and they tell me this has ALWAYS been the case... but from my tests, it's new to 1.22. I suspect it was fixed ages ago, but has regressed
[15:04] Garn Conover: really short list :P lol
[15:05] Alexa Linden: comment says importing
[15:05] Bambers Linden: yeah - I'm still getting into the swing of things, and these are all 1.22 bugs
[15:05] Alexa Linden: so I will do so!
[15:05] Bambers Linden: yup yup :)
[15:05] Alexa Linden: oh and a quick FYI
[15:05] Garn Conover: im teasin ya
[15:05] Soap Clawtooth: Actually i've encountered this problem on OS X.5 for a while. I didn't think it was the because the chat bar was open, but sometimes CTRL + Z fails to work.
[15:05] Alexa Linden: we are tweaking some importing stuff
[15:05] Alexa Linden: so I'l still behind from Mondays stuff
[15:05] Alexa Linden: should be able to import and update everything tomorrow
[15:06] Garn Conover: omg 'Lexa thats adorable!
[15:06] Alexa Linden: next we have
[15:06] Alexa Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11602
[15:06] Alexa Linden: public nightly build 1-22-6(108101) freezes and quits responding when multiple,2,avs are logged in
[15:06] Cummere Mayo: for me on xp and vista systems you dont need he chat bar open for undo to consistantly fail
[15:07] Gellan Glenelg: It doesn't repro for me; I've have more than one AV logged on, without any problems
[15:07] Alexa Linden: can anyone else repro?
[15:07] Bambers Linden: I haven't seen this either
[15:07] Cummere Mayo: facepalms "i get freezes one one avitar. i would be afriad to try two or more... plus are multiple logins oficially supported yet?"
[15:07] Bambers Linden: My first guess is that the deprecated -multiple tag is used
[15:07] Patnad Babii: is there a way to download the public nightly on windows ?
[15:08] Patnad Babii: or its sources ?
[15:08] Alexa Linden: Hi Latif :)
[15:08] Latif Khalifa: hello :)
[15:09] Bambers Linden: Hey Latif :)
[15:09] Alexa Linden: just in time Zen
[15:09] Alexa Linden: we're almost to yours
[15:09] Alexa Linden: so do we want to wait for her response to ramzi?
[15:09] Zen Linden: hehe... was waiting at the old place
[15:09] Zen Linden: :p
[15:09] Alexa Linden: and add triage date?
[15:09] Cummere Mayo: um i um running the nightly on windows patnad...
[15:09] Patnad Babii: oki ill need to find how to get it or compile it
[15:10] Cummere Mayo: are you part of the bsi group?
[15:10] Patnad Babii: euh .. roll eye
[15:10] Alexa Linden: you need to be on the BSI testing list
[15:10] Gellan Glenelg: Bambers, when you say -multiple is deprecated, do you mean "not officially supported", or has it been replaced by something else?
[15:10] Soap Clawtooth: Crashed -_- | Latest RC = Crashfest™
[15:10] Cummere Mayo: the download link is in every new version alert email that goes out
[15:10] Alexa Linden: it's the testing group
[15:10] Bambers Linden: I think we wait as we were unable to repro in-house
[15:10] Patnad Babii: i guess im not
[15:10] Garn Conover: is on the new Imprudence atm
[15:10] Alexa Linden: will do bambers
[15:10] Soap Clawtooth: has switched to Kirsten's viwer
[15:11] Cummere Mayo: alexa is it ok if i give him the link direct or no?
[15:11] Bambers Linden: " -multiple" was replaced with " --multiple"
[15:11] Bambers Linden: 2 dashes
[15:11] Gellan Glenelg: oh
[15:11] Garn Conover: Imprudence will be nice when sound gets fully working
[15:11] Alexa Linden: We need to have him on the list
[15:11] Gellan Glenelg: I've been isung single "-", without problems
[15:11] Patnad Babii: in the description of this bug they say " add " -multiple" to command line "
[15:11] Alexa Linden: so we have all the info on machines, etc
[15:11] Patnad Babii: so they are using the depreciated one
[15:11] Alexa Linden: and to add to the group for comments
[15:11] Garn Conover: why change it to --?
[15:11] Bambers Linden: so a crash with -multiple could mean we're not handling bad parameters gracefully
[15:11] Latif Khalifa: uses debug setting instead of -multiple
[15:12] Bambers Linden: ok - I could be mistaken re: --multiple, or there may be a change I missed :)
[15:12] Alexa Linden: so the last issue for today is https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-9137
[15:12] Soap Clawtooth: lol alexa. teagan has one of those av's at the moment ^^
[15:12] Alexa Linden: thief!
[15:12] Dessie Linden: Windows:
http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/viewer-public-nightly/108353/Second_Life_1-22-6-108353_PublicNightly_Setup.exe
Linux:
http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/viewer-public-nightly/108353/SecondLife-i686-1.22.6.108353.tar.bz2
Mac:
http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/viewer-public-nightly/108353/SecondLife_1_22_6_108353_PUBLICNIGHTLY.dmg
[15:13] Patnad Babii: oh thanks im going to try this
[15:13] Bambers Linden: We're after more info for this disappearing avatars issue
[15:13] Cummere Mayo: what specifically do you need?
[15:14] Latif Khalifa: the bug where you only see prim attachments?
[15:14] Patnad Babii: oh yeh i have this bug too
[15:14] Cummere Mayo: heh sometimes you dont even get that or the nametag
[15:14] Soap Clawtooth: That happens to me until i move the camera
[15:14] Patnad Babii: exactly
[15:15] Bambers Linden: does anybody notice distances involved?
[15:15] Alexa Linden: I get this all the time
[15:15] Alexa Linden: nope
[15:15] Cummere Mayo: for me distances are random...
[15:15] Cummere Mayo: BUT
[15:15] Gellan Glenelg: wonders if it's related to avatar imposters (I haven't seen it, and I always have them OFF)
[15:15] Patnad Babii: let me see i can maybe reproduce it right here
[15:15] Alexa Linden: can be in a small group like this too
[15:15] Latif Khalifa: and only when a new avatar enters the scene (by teleporting in)
[15:15] Cummere Mayo: i have noticed one trend
[15:15] Soap Clawtooth: Possibly, Gellan.
[15:15] Alexa Linden: until I cammed into dessie, I could only see her name
[15:15] Saijanai Kuhn: when I put avatar imposters on on my old G5 I would get random textures. Kinda fun stometimes but distracting
[15:15] Cummere Mayo: i dont use imposter gellan
[15:15] Gellan Glenelg: ok
[15:16] Cummere Mayo: i still get this bug or one similar
[15:16] Latif Khalifa: but this one is pretty easy to reproduce
[15:16] Bambers Linden: is there a solid repeatable way to repro?
[15:16] Patnad Babii: moving your camera around a scene i'd say
[15:16] Cummere Mayo: for me... you can get a guanarteed occurance with in half an hour within any graphics intensive sim
[15:17] Alexa Linden: I did have imposters on
[15:17] Patnad Babii: sometime i loose my hair
[15:17] Soap Clawtooth: Or just looking for someone at a distance in a laggy area
[15:17] Patnad Babii: sometime its complete avatar
[15:17] Patnad Babii: but i guess there is too many linden's magic here i cant reproduce it at the moment
[15:17] Soap Clawtooth: Also the prims stay in one place even though the avatar has moved (which you cant see) until you cam into the prims then it updates
[15:17] Bambers Linden: so it occurs on TPs; on camera panning (Alt-cam)
[15:17] Cummere Mayo: for example.... lost angels, nomine, cassiopea harbor... if i spend enough time there this bug will occur for me bambers
[15:18] Bambers Linden: happens regardless of impostering settings
[15:18] Latif Khalifa: Bambers Alt-cam fixes it
[15:18] Soap Clawtooth: HIP it happens to me too
[15:18] Bambers Linden: aah
[15:18] Cummere Mayo: yep, though alt cam fixes it
[15:18] Cummere Mayo: if alt cam doesnt hang me up first
[15:18] Alexa Linden: those are all mega laggy places
[15:18] Patnad Babii: sometime i just ALT-Cam and i can reproduce it
[15:18] Cummere Mayo: i think its actually related to textrue failures
[15:18] Bambers Linden: I think the fact alt-cam reportedly works around could be significant
[15:18] Cummere Mayo: *texture
[15:18] Alexa Linden: nomine has been queen of lag since she built the first place :P
[15:19] Cummere Mayo: her new build is actually not too laggy now
[15:19] Soap Clawtooth: I don't, cummere. Otherwise it wouldn't rez the prims in their entirely leaving only the AV mesh invisible.
[15:19] Latif Khalifa: Bambers, easier way to reproduce is to have camera at default (move around) to a place where people teleport in often. Watch after they teleport often only their prim attachmets appear. Alt-zooming to their prim attachmets make the rest of avatar appear
[15:19] Alexa Linden: ya the best so far
[15:19] Bambers Linden: Cummere - possibly, maybe. Has anyone been seeing it in the Nightly Builds recently?
[15:19] Soap Clawtooth: entirety*
[15:19] Cummere Mayo: soap it -doesn't- rez the prims for some of us
[15:19] Cummere Mayo: for some of us the entrie avi plus nametag fails
[15:20] Soap Clawtooth: I'm inclined to believe its FPS related. Since it only occurs in super-laggy sims.
[15:20] Cummere Mayo: hasa 10% chance of prims, 60% chance of nametag, and 40% chance of nothing when affected by this bug
[15:20] Cummere Mayo: and i get it allot more often when i get allot of bad textrue messages in my logs
[15:20] Bambers Linden: are those best estimates, Cummere?
[15:21] Cummere Mayo: best guestaments yes
[15:21] Soap Clawtooth: Well i have my client to purge cache on startup and it still happens to me, so perhaps its not texture related.
[15:21] Patnad Babii: # An AV can be invisible to me even when it's the only other AV in a SIM
[15:21] Bambers Linden: ok
[15:21] Alexa Linden: it happens for me at each triage
[15:21] Patnad Babii: so its not only happening in ultra laggy places
[15:21] Alexa Linden: but I have now turned off imposters so I will see
[15:21] Cummere Mayo: no not just at the laggy places
[15:22] Cummere Mayo: but high texture places cuase it more for me
[15:22] Cummere Mayo: regardless of high lag or low lag
[15:22] Cummere Mayo: would be willing to let qa put a controlled worm on my main system if they would like to really datamaine this and a few other issues
[15:23] Soap Clawtooth: starting to sound like it might be two different bugs with the same result
[15:23] Bambers Linden: does the problem occur when you TP away from and then back to a trouble spot?
[15:23] Cummere Mayo: usally tping out and back fixes it for me
[15:23] Bambers Linden: could be, soap
[15:23] Bambers Linden: if you TP away, clear your cache, and TP back would it occur?
[15:23] Bambers Linden: (if anyone's checked)
[15:24] Soap Clawtooth: Cummeres' seems more severe and texture related. I purge everything in my cache at startup, so it cant be texture related for me.
[15:24] Soap Clawtooth: Ah!
[15:24] Soap Clawtooth: lightbulb on
[15:24] Soap Clawtooth: When someone TP's IN to a sim
[15:24] Soap Clawtooth: they don't always appear even if you're already there.
[15:24] Soap Clawtooth: i have noticed that too (more common for me than cummere's problem)
[15:24] Cummere Mayo: if i tp out and tp back it fixes for me, but i then sometimes become invisible for others
[15:25] Bambers Linden: so it could be two bugs
[15:25] Cummere Mayo: i dotn think its a cache issue
[15:25] Soap Clawtooth: Im inclined to see if we can do two repro's on this
[15:25] Soap Clawtooth: one from me, one from cummere
[15:25] Cummere Mayo: but i do get it more often if the viewer is turning up attempts to download the textures as bad. but that could be jsut a coincidence
[15:26] Soap Clawtooth: Bear in mind his on windoze and im on OS X.5
[15:26] Cummere Mayo: is so a HER soap ><
[15:26] Soap Clawtooth: oops
[15:26] Soap Clawtooth: My bad
[15:26] Alexa Linden: lol
[15:26] Bambers Linden: maybe each of you add a repro and include your environment in the same comment
[15:26] Alexa Linden: good idea
[15:26] Cummere Mayo: ill add my main system sure...
[15:26] Soap Clawtooth: sure
[15:26] Dessie Linden: that would be great
[15:26] Alexa Linden: see if we can see a pattern
[15:27] Patnad Babii: ill try to tackle it :)
[15:27] Alexa Linden: I'll add a traige date
[15:27] Soap Clawtooth: you finishes griefing colton, Alexa, lol.
[15:27] Alexa Linden: triage*
[15:27] Alexa Linden: me???
[15:27] Soap Clawtooth: chuckles.
[15:27] Bambers Linden: and also see if there's 2 threads we can tease apart - maybe isolate 2 bugs, or 2 failure modes for the same bug
[15:27] Alexa Linden: stares at the floor and mumbles
[15:27] Patnad Babii: btw i see Cummere in plasma ball anyone else ?
[15:27] Alexa Linden: no
[15:28] Gellan Glenelg: not me
[15:28] Soap Clawtooth: nope
[15:28] Dessie Linden: nope
[15:28] Bambers Linden: nope
[15:28] Alexa Linden: lol
[15:28] Alexa Linden: O.o
[15:28] Patnad Babii: thats another thing ;)
[15:28] Alexa Linden: what you been eating???
[15:28] Patnad Babii: lol
[15:28] Soap Clawtooth: I think he means the Gas Cloud of Fail.
[15:28] Alexa Linden: hahahahaha
[15:28] Alexa Linden: nice
[15:28] Bambers Linden: I see alexa impostered though
[15:28] Dessie Linden: hmm... I don't smell anything...
[15:28] Alexa Linden: better?
[15:29] Soap Clawtooth: lol.
[15:29] Patnad Babii: switching group sometime fixed it
[15:29] Alexa Linden: really?
[15:29] Patnad Babii: yes
[15:29] Bambers Linden: now I just see an evil teletubby on a pogoing treadmill
[15:29] Soap Clawtooth: lmao.
[15:29] Patnad Babii: Zha learned me
[15:29] Alexa Linden: tele wot???
[15:29] Patnad Babii: can you try Cummere to switch group
[15:29] Cummere Mayo: comment added
[15:30] Bambers Linden: thanks Cummere
[15:30] Alexa Linden: well that's our 4 issues for today!
[15:30] Soap Clawtooth: Teletubby: [2]
[15:30] Alexa Linden: wow how time flies
[15:30] Cummere Mayo: um ok im not got anyone invisible, but remind me and ill try swtiching tags next time
[15:30] Alexa Linden: don't make me hurt you Soap O.o
[15:30] Soap Clawtooth: You asked!
[15:30] Bambers Linden: :)
[15:30] Latif Khalifa: Changing group does funky things to the server, sometimes if a place has many missing prims, I change the group which seems to force the server to send updates along lol
[15:30] Alexa Linden: wow
[15:30] Alexa Linden: I'll have to try that one
[15:30] Patnad Babii: oh and colton too is plasma :/
[15:31] Bambers Linden: have these been reported in jira yet?
[15:31] Alexa Linden: that's fine is Colton is ;)
[15:31] Soap Clawtooth: Here's one to vote on for next week: [3]
[15:31] Alexa Linden: I think we've had that before.....
[15:31] Alexa Linden: Gellan do you remember that?
[15:31] Alexa Linden: or Elllla?
[15:31] Gellan Glenelg: looking ..
[15:31] Alexa Linden: -1 :
[15:32] Alexa Linden: -1 L*
[15:32] Cummere Mayo: bambers, dessie, if one of your deves or qa's wants to put together a more intense dataminer to suplement whats now in the viewer, so long as it ONLY logs sl and only MY accounts (not friends if i let them log in) I'm willing to try anything to get rid of some of these bugs
[15:32] Soap Clawtooth: I encountered it this week after I changed my password and then jira hated me for it.
[15:32] Garn Conover: Soap pass that to Bridie's attention
[15:32] Gellan Glenelg: WEB-300 is similar, not jira tho
[15:33] Latif Khalifa: btw. for people that hate adding --multiple to their shortcuts you can change AllowMultipleViewers debug setting :)
[15:33] Cummere Mayo: latif that doesnt work for me
[15:33] Bambers Linden: OK, so we have more information and more suspicions for https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-9137
[15:33] Alexa Linden: hmmm there was another one I thought
[15:33] Latif Khalifa: works for me(tm)
[15:33] Latif Khalifa: lol
[15:34] Soap Clawtooth: Actually id on't need to repro
[15:34] Bambers Linden: and I think that brings this triage to a close.
[15:34] Latif Khalifa: you do lose sounds when logging out though
[15:34] Latif Khalifa: if you don't patch cache cleanup
[15:34] Soap Clawtooth: https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/attachment/21221/bugs_001.jpg - if you look at Haya - that's what I get when someone Tp's into a sim and im at a distance from them
[15:34] Gellan Glenelg: WEB-433, alexa
[15:34] Alexa Linden: Thanks for coming everyone!!
[15:35] Alexa Linden: bingo!
[15:35] Alexa Linden: that's the one
[15:35] Soap Clawtooth: [4] - [5] - Two fun ones to vote on if you want them, thought it would be a good idea.
[15:35] Alexa Linden: TY Gellan
[15:35] Bambers Linden: Don't forget Monday's triage which covers more wide ranging issues
[15:35] Patnad Babii: gave you Patnad Babii - Battery Street Irregulars.
[15:35] Bambers Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage
[15:36] Bambers Linden: :~)
[15:36] Soap Clawtooth: :D
[15:36] Alexa Linden: Bye all! Have a great week/end!
[15:36] Alexa Linden: see you next Week :)
[15:36] Dessie Linden: cya everyone!
[15:36] Soap Clawtooth: Cya next week, everyone. :)

Bug triage/2009-01-21/Transcript

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