Doc Team/2010-07-14

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[13:06] Aargle Zymurgy: hey! Jeremy!
[13:06] Aargle Zymurgy has pinged you.
[13:06] Jeremy Linden: Hello, everyone!
[13:06] Xaria Mistwallow: hey jeremy =)
[13:06] Xaria Mistwallow has pinged you.
[13:06] Xaria Mistwallow: kate is very busy i presume?
[13:07] Flenser Juergens: Glad to see you with us Jeremy.
[13:07] Flenser Juergens has pinged you.
[13:07] Xaria Mistwallow: she didnt join her own OH yesterday.. so....
[13:07] Jeremy Linden: Yeah, it's a busy week... I'll see what the other doc folks are up to...
[13:07] Xaria Mistwallow: lol, please do
[13:07] Xaria Mistwallow: and drag jon in!
[13:07] Xaria Mistwallow: he has been gone far to long now!
[13:08] Aargle Zymurgy: rumor has it torley not on the doc team any more?
[13:08] Jeremy Linden: Yeah, Torley moved to a different team a few months ago, but he's still around.
[13:09] Bronson Blackadder: hes being groomed as the new CEO
[13:09] Jeremy Linden: Oh jeez, particle attack!
[13:09] Xaria Mistwallow: see
[13:09] Xaria Mistwallow: told ya
[13:09] xstorm Radek: what ?
[13:09] Xaria Mistwallow: particles?
[13:09] Xaria Mistwallow: where?
[13:09] Bronson Blackadder: I dont see any
[13:09] Aargle Zymurgy: hmm... our noob wandered off
[13:09] Jeremy Linden: I think my draw distance is high enough that I'm seeing the emitter on Help Island Public.
[13:09] Xaria Mistwallow: above us, yes i am aware of that
[13:09] Bronson Blackadder: I tell you , working at LL, you start seeing things
[13:09] Xaria Mistwallow: missile got stuck above us
[13:10] Xaria Mistwallow: i filled in several AR reports and no LL to clean it up so far
[13:10] Xaria Mistwallow: wonder when that team find the time...
[13:11] Aargle Zymurgy: g-team?
[13:11] Bronson Blackadder: g team = gone team
[13:11] Aargle Zymurgy: with Teagan gone, I don't think I know anyone on it anymore.
[13:11] Xaria Mistwallow: g-team merged
[13:11] Aargle Zymurgy: with who else?
[13:11] Xaria Mistwallow: euhm... resi team if im not mistaken
[13:12] Jeremy Linden: That sounds about right. I'm not sure about who's directly responsible for cleanup, though.
[13:12] Aargle Zymurgy: am I the only person who still remembers the g-team meetings? :-)
[13:12] Xaria Mistwallow: they better do it quickly though
[13:12] Xaria Mistwallow: the sim stability isnt really good lately
[13:13] Bronson Blackadder: any linden can do it I think
[13:13] Xaria Mistwallow: in all surrounding sims that is
[13:13] Xaria Mistwallow: yes bron, all lindens are able to do those things
[13:14] xstorm Radek: i wish i had a way to clean up griefer items but oh well some one killed off much of Gteam on me
[13:14] Billy Gata: its ok
[13:14] Bronson Blackadder: give me a linden tag, hell I'll do it for free
[13:14] Xaria Mistwallow: yeah i know xstorm
[13:14] Jeremy Linden: Whew, looks like that mess got cleaned up.
[13:14] Xaria Mistwallow: no asking Harry Linden either, that guy is cranky a lot... :o
[13:14] Liisa Runo: but are they allowed? g-team for example come to remove the item that is causing trouble, but totally ignores 10000 screaming physical cubes in the sim cause the AR about those is not under their nose at the moment
[13:15] xstorm Radek: look in back of you
[13:15] xstorm Radek: them Box there are the griefer items
[13:15] Jeremy Linden: Oh!
[13:16] Jeremy Linden: I totally wasn't looking in that direction.
[13:16] Flenser Juergens: Duty cleaning up stuff like that is a thankless job.
[13:16] Flenser Juergens: People burn out after awhile.
[13:16] Aargle Zymurgy: agreed with Flenser. g-team job is tough enough without getting bitched at.
[13:16] Liisa Runo: i always add "thanks :) have a good day" to my AR's
[13:16] Ashiri Sands: =^_^=
[13:16] Aargle Zymurgy: ditto
[13:16] xstorm Radek: only 12 AR for me to day
[13:16] Xaria Mistwallow: i used to do it in a few furry sims, pretty nice work and easy
[13:17] Aargle Zymurgy: and make sure no temper flaring when you fill out out.
[13:17] Flenser Juergens: I've been lucky lately. My estate managers have been working hard doing stuff to help get performance of sim better.
[13:17] Aargle Zymurgy: only one for me today. unfortunately, mine is going to take someone researching
[13:17] Xaria Mistwallow: Liisa, they only read a few lines
[13:17] Xaria Mistwallow: they are only allowed to take a few minutes per case
[13:17] Flenser Juergens: I need to go and ask some more people to get rid of stuff.
[13:17] Bronson Blackadder: they also ignor ARs about people who have everything on their parcel on temp rezzors with double or triple the number of prims that the parcel can hold, rezzing every minute and a half
[13:18] Flenser Juergens: ick
[13:18] Bronson Blackadder: pisses me off
[13:18] Jeremy Linden: One moment...
[13:18] Xaria Mistwallow: I been talking to both Harry and a few others of that team, they all said the same basically
[13:18] Aargle Zymurgy: 18 months ago it was all ARs on cloners and matching security JIRA entries.
[13:19] Xaria Mistwallow: even above us
[13:19] Aargle Zymurgy: wb Jeremy
[13:19] Aargle Zymurgy has pinged you.
[13:20] xstorm Radek: wow better
[13:20] Jeremy Linden: Whew.
[13:20] Xaria Mistwallow: told ya
[13:20] xstorm Radek: no more sim lag
[13:20] Bronson Blackadder: much
[13:21] Aargle Zymurgy: so what's today's hot topic?
[13:21] Xaria Mistwallow: too much junk in a sim
[13:21] xstorm Radek: TD back up to 0.99
[13:21] Xaria Mistwallow: well.. there is most likely more though,....
[13:21] Xaria Mistwallow: griefers love to leave cages invisible junk etc
[13:21] Bronson Blackadder: todays topic is too much junk in a sim and what linden you know who can clean it up for you
[13:21] Xaria Mistwallow: but its livable now
[13:21] Jeremy Linden: Hmm... Any of you guys use wikis for other products that you think are particularly well-organized?
[13:22] Aargle Zymurgy: actually, no.
[13:22] Xaria Mistwallow: i have both for this av as my main av a wiki page
[13:22] xstorm Radek: Wiki needs a better Tree Search
[13:22] Xaria Mistwallow: hey open
[13:22] Opensource Obscure: hey everybody
[13:22] xstorm Radek: hi Open
[13:22] Xaria Mistwallow: wiki needs a better search period
[13:23] Xaria Mistwallow: wiki search is a mess and not very handy to use
[13:23] Xaria Mistwallow: often gets to be a mess
[13:23] Jeremy Linden: True. Doc team is in the middle of trying to come up with a way to better organize the wiki. It needs to be easier to find the information you're looking for.
[13:23] Xaria Mistwallow: I'm Sorry! jeremy, but unfortunately it is the truth
[13:23] Xaria Mistwallow has pinged you.
[13:24] Xaria Mistwallow: a search working more in detail would do wonders
[13:24] Jeremy Linden: How so, Xaria? It already uses a Google search appliance.
[13:24] Xaria Mistwallow: and, i think Xstorms suggestion to Nyx earlier could help as well, metadata
[13:24] Xaria Mistwallow: i didnt mean that part jeremy
[13:24] Xaria Mistwallow has pinged you.
[13:25] Opensource Obscure: actually, I'm fine with the current search in the wiki. what i'd like would be even more categorization.
[13:25] Xaria Mistwallow: it often spits out the most redicilous search results you will never need
[13:25] Ashiri Sands: is that different from any other search?
[13:25] xstorm Radek: i have to go brb seems a griefer is in our sandbox
[13:25] Xaria Mistwallow: think new tag types may also do the trick
[13:25] Jeremy Linden: Hm. Categorization would fit some of the metadata role. Personally, I think it would benefit from better visual organization as well.
[13:26] Xaria Mistwallow: for example, resident profile pages for example could use a new tag type, for example tag called "resident" "linden" "profile" etc
[13:26] Xaria Mistwallow: to make things easier
[13:26] Jeremy Linden: User:
[13:26] Xaria Mistwallow: or logs could use the tag "log"
[13:27] Xaria Mistwallow: needs to be very simple jeremy, even for the real dummies
[13:27] Xaria Mistwallow has pinged you.
[13:27] Jeremy Linden: Yeah, chat transcripts could certainly use their own namespace. I didn't realize until a few weeks ago just how many there were.
[13:27] Xaria Mistwallow: not everyone is as smart unfortunately
[13:28] Jeremy Linden: (Sorry if I'm a little slow this week... I'm back from a couple weeks of vacation. Did someone run this office hour while I was gone?)
[13:28] Xaria Mistwallow: on search itself we probably could add then a filter function, checkbox style to start out with, so you can actually filter what you need and what you dont
[13:28] Opensource Obscure: last week, no.
[13:28] Bronson Blackadder: yes anytime I try to find something in the wiki I get bombarded with transcripts
[13:28] Xaria Mistwallow: (welcome back, hope you had a great vacations :) )
[13:28] Xaria Mistwallow: indeed bron
[13:28] Xaria Mistwallow: thats my point
[13:28] Xaria Mistwallow: too much of what you dont need
[13:29] Xaria Mistwallow: search for a name of a resident for example, and you get mostly transscripts instead of a profile or other info
[13:29] Xaria Mistwallow: so... pretty useless
[13:29] Bronson Blackadder: exctly
[13:29] Ashiri Sands: So as long as trasscipts are all tagged, they could then be filtered.
[13:29] Bronson Blackadder: yep
[13:29] Ashiri Sands: But getting everyone to tag entries properly?
[13:29] Xaria Mistwallow: that was my point indeed earlier ashiri
[13:30] Xaria Mistwallow: new tag types can solve a lot of problems
[13:30] Bronson Blackadder: as long as people dont go stupid and forget to tag their stuff
[13:30] Xaria Mistwallow: plus of course adding a more valid seach engine that actually can filter things
[13:30] Jeremy Linden: Technically speaking, the wiki doesn't have "tags"... You can, however, put articles into categories or namespaces.
[13:31] Xaria Mistwallow: if you are looking for a transscript, no need, but if you looking for something more specific like a profile... its really hell to find it
[13:31] Jeremy Linden: For example, profiles should be under the "User:" namespace, and all Doc Team transcripts are in the "Documentation Office Hours" category.
[13:31] Xaria Mistwallow: well, i noticed you know what i meant =)
[13:31] Xaria Mistwallow: hey laurent =)
[13:32] Laurent Bechir: hello :)
[13:32] Xaria Mistwallow: anyways, might be a bit of time before it is actually added, but on the long term its best for us all
[13:32] Xaria Mistwallow: specially if you are a few years further
[13:32] Xaria Mistwallow: or for that matter 1
[13:33] Xaria Mistwallow: so much is being added that you won't be able to find things easily without a proper search engine with the proper options
[13:33] Xaria Mistwallow: best to add them now instead of later
[13:33] Xaria Mistwallow: later you only get a lot more trouble of it
[13:34] Xaria Mistwallow: unless someone has another idea how to solve these problems...
[13:35] Xaria Mistwallow: silence.. hmm... that either means shut up or no ideas... lol
[13:35] Ashiri Sands: Once we the the wiki sorted, we then educate people on filling in Jiras?
[13:35] Jeremy Linden: I did try to explain that there are ways to approximate tags on a wiki. For example:
[13:36] Xaria Mistwallow: ashiri, good idea, problem is that most dont want to be bothered and rather think it is offensive
[13:36] xstorm Radek: there needs to be a Jira Link on the dashboard on the frontpage
[13:36] Xaria Mistwallow: isnt specific enouth jeremy
[13:36] Xaria Mistwallow has pinged you.
[13:36] Xaria Mistwallow: lol
[13:36] Aargle Zymurgy: oh, Jeremy... new friend?
[13:36] Aargle Zymurgy has pinged you.
[13:36] Jeremy Linden: There are about three different ways to filter for any Doc Team office hour transcript. They all start with "Doc Team/", they're all in the category "Documentation Office Hours"
[13:37] Xaria Mistwallow: noticed the same aar :p
[13:37] Jeremy Linden: ...and I'll think of a third way soon enough :-P
[13:37] Xaria Mistwallow: still jeremy, thats just the doc team OH's
[13:37] Xaria Mistwallow has pinged you.
[13:37] Laurent Bechir: If you want people using tags on wiki you'll have to be patient. I don't see lot of them using such tool in RL
[13:37] xstorm Radek: lol
[13:37] Xaria Mistwallow: if you are looking for my main avi's name, its a hell to find it
[13:37] xstorm Radek: Jeremy what about a link to the Jira page on the dashboard ?
[13:37] xstorm Radek has pinged you.
[13:37] Xaria Mistwallow: besides that, links to my profile on logs are NOT leading to my profile!
[13:38] Xaria Mistwallow: just to point out the problem
[13:39] Xaria Mistwallow: try it and you will see my point
[13:39] Jeremy Linden: I type "Xaria Mistwallow" into the wiki search and your user page is the first result.
[13:39] Xaria Mistwallow: no, my main av
[13:39] Xaria Mistwallow: lol
[13:39] Ashiri Sands: You want your alt linked to your main?
[13:40] Xaria Mistwallow: nooooo
[13:40] Xaria Mistwallow: lol
[13:40] Xaria Mistwallow: rather have as less people as possible know who my main is
[13:41] Aargle Zymurgy: hm... almost wish that sometimes
[13:41] Xaria Mistwallow: searching for my main avi's name and you end up with pretty much logs only
[13:41] Ashiri Sands: likewise, oh wait, I am my main
[13:41] Xaria Mistwallow: searching for Xaria however is spot on
[13:42] Ashiri Sands: searching for my alts leads to very odd results
[13:42] Xaria Mistwallow: thats my point ashiri
[13:43] Xaria Mistwallow: search is not always right and could lead up to problems
[13:43] Xaria Mistwallow: strange thing is, Jeremy searched for my main av's name and he did get it right away
[13:43] Xaria Mistwallow has pinged you.
[13:43] Xaria Mistwallow: somethign i dont
[13:43] Jeremy Linden: I'm definitely going to take this into consideration on some of our internal wiki talks this week... Doc team has been trying to think of ways to re-organize the Knowledge Base, which is the section of the wiki we have the most control over.
[13:44] Xaria Mistwallow: so.... a bug or something we may have found?
[13:44] Jeremy Linden: /me has the magic search.
[13:44] xstorm Radek: it may be a old link on your part
[13:44] Xaria Mistwallow: well... to be honest, the youri in the chat logs is strangely not linked to my page...
[13:45] Xaria Mistwallow: same name and all...
[13:45] Xaria Mistwallow: but isnt linked properly
[13:45] Xaria Mistwallow: YAY!! SIM LAG!!
[13:45] Xaria Mistwallow: so there is something more going on i fear
[13:45] xstorm Radek: a number of things can do it
[13:45] Xaria Mistwallow: think it's time to find out what it might be
[13:45] xstorm Radek: dirty cache
[13:45] xstorm Radek: is one
[13:46] Xaria Mistwallow: isnt my cache
[13:46] Xaria Mistwallow: my cache is cleared each day
[13:46] xstorm Radek: what part of it ?
[13:46] Xaria Mistwallow: or lately each day 20 times....
[13:46] Xaria Mistwallow: all of it
[13:47] Xaria Mistwallow: end of the day i run a program before i close the PC off
[13:47] Laurent Bechir: Xaria: I'm lost. Are you talking about finding your page on the wiki ?
[13:47] Xaria Mistwallow: and no, not telling the name
[13:47] Xaria Mistwallow: no laurent
[13:47] Xaria Mistwallow: the wiki search is showing odd results
[13:48] Xaria Mistwallow: when I look for my own name (not this one but my main avi's name) i get only chat logs
[13:48] Xaria Mistwallow: however
[13:48] Ashiri Sands: and the user profiles are quite similar =^_~=
[13:48] Xaria Mistwallow: when Jeremy just now tried, he got my page instantly
[13:48] Xaria Mistwallow has pinged you.
[13:48] Xaria Mistwallow: i seem not to be the only one with the problem
[13:48] Xaria Mistwallow: more people actually have similar problems
[13:49] Xaria Mistwallow: so it can not be on my side only
[13:50] Xaria Mistwallow: it might be solved by added tags as i been telling, but... that infact wont work if the chat adapted to actually understand those tags
[13:50] Flenser Juergens: i'm going to need to go. Take care everyone.
[13:50] Xaria Mistwallow: very simple ones that everyone can easily access and with the info what it is for and how to use them
[13:50] Xaria Mistwallow: bye flenser
[13:50] Jeremy Linden: Thanks for coming, Flenser.
[13:50] Ashiri Sands: bye Flenser
[13:50] Xaria Mistwallow: hey jule, welcome
[13:51] Xaria Mistwallow: anyways, get my point laurent?
[13:52] Laurent Bechir: what I understand is that you look for your main av name in the wiki and don't get your home page :)
[13:52] Xaria Mistwallow: so far your right jeremy
[13:52] Xaria Mistwallow has pinged you.
[13:52] Jeremy Linden: Hi Jule, have a seat. This is an open office hour for Linden Lab's documentation team. We write online help for Second Life.
[13:52] Xaria Mistwallow: laurent* oops
[13:52] Laurent Bechir: :)
[13:52] Xaria Mistwallow: noticed jeremy typing... lol
[13:52] Xaria Mistwallow has pinged you.
[13:52] Xaria Mistwallow: my bad
[13:53] Jeremy Linden: I'm distracting, I know.
[13:53] Xaria Mistwallow: lol
[13:53] Laurent Bechir: it can't be the cache of the mediawiki itself ? Lot of these tools have a cache which need to be cleared from time to time
[13:54] Xaria Mistwallow: it might be so laurent
[13:54] Xaria Mistwallow: if those got cleared each month, it may be solving problems
[13:54] Xaria Mistwallow: but i think the problem may be laying deeper then that
[13:54] Xaria Mistwallow: as i said, not only 1 person has that problem
[13:55] Xaria Mistwallow: hmm... even more strange....
[13:55] Laurent Bechir: you've tried that : To clear the cache of a page in MediaWiki, you should add &action=purge to the end of the page's URL in your browser's address bar, e.g. :  ?
[13:56] xstorm Radek: thats the one i was talking about
[13:56] Xaria Mistwallow: i just clicked a search result of my main avi's name and my name is not even linked
[13:56] Xaria Mistwallow: so... how will it ever be possible to find my profile that way?
[13:57] Xaria Mistwallow: hello richard, welcome!
[13:57] Richard Rainfall: hello
[13:57] Jeremy Linden: Hello!
[13:58] Xaria Mistwallow: even linden names are not linked to a profile page i see
[13:58] Jeremy Linden: Welcome to the very end of this week's Documentation Team open office hour.
[13:58] Jeremy Linden: Xaria, my user page is
[13:58] Jeremy Linden has pinged you.
[13:58] Xaria Mistwallow: not even yours jeremy
[13:58] Xaria Mistwallow has pinged you.
[13:59] Richard Rainfall: too much noise here :)
[13:59] Jeremy Linden: Granted, all it says is "Can be found on twitter", but it's definitely there.
[13:59] Xaria Mistwallow: no, i meant on the logs
[13:59] Xaria Mistwallow: your name is not a link
[13:59] Jeremy Linden: Oh.
[13:59] Xaria Mistwallow: check it out
[13:59] Jeremy Linden: Yeah, that depends on how I set the tool I use to format chat logs.
[14:00] Xaria Mistwallow: it would be a lot better if names that are already in, got linked automatically to their pages
[14:00] Laurent Bechir: if the name is not a link in the logs, it can be a bug in the wikifier
[14:00] Jeremy Linden: It's not official, just something Zai Lynch pointed me at a long time ago.
[14:00] Xaria Mistwallow: lemme see, doc oh log.....
[14:00] Richard Rainfall: how can i visible my face back please
[14:00] Bronson Blackadder: Doc-o-log
[14:01] Jeremy Linden: Hi Richard. Are you using the official Second Life viewer software?
[14:01] Xaria Mistwallow: this one is linked properly:
[14:01] Xaria Mistwallow has pinged you.
[14:01] xstorm Radek: lol
[14:01] Richard Rainfall: i thin k yes
[14:01] Xaria Mistwallow: this is more text only:
[14:01] xstorm Radek: no one can find me on the Wiki at all
[14:01] Bronson Blackadder: CTRL ALT R a zillion times
[14:01] Xaria Mistwallow: cant link if its text only :p
[14:01] Jeremy Linden: Ok, click the shirt tab on the right side of the screen, the click "Wearing" at the top of the sidebar.
[14:02] Bronson Blackadder: and if you happen to be using dual monitors
[14:02] Bronson Blackadder: move teh SL screen to teh other one and edit appearance
[14:02] Xaria Mistwallow: I'm Sorry! jeremy, not everyone is that rich :p
[14:02] Xaria Mistwallow has pinged you.
[14:03] Jeremy Linden: Rich?
[14:03] Xaria Mistwallow: anyways, get my point? its rather fustrating to see no links to profiles
[14:04] Xaria Mistwallow: could solve the problem as well
[14:04] Jeremy Linden: Xaria, there is no official tool for logging office hours. The one I use does happen to capture names when it's lucky, but Linden Lab doesn't own the tool; before I found it, I just posted in plain text.
[14:05] Xaria Mistwallow: if there was a tool directly linked so people could create easily their logs and post that with linked profiles etc, then it would be a big help
[14:05] Jeremy Linden: Yes it would!
[14:05] Xaria Mistwallow: perhaps find a way to get that tool linked somehow? promote it?
[14:06] Time Minder: You have been online for 1 hours.
[14:06] Xaria Mistwallow: or find a nice way to get it linked with approval of the owner?
[14:06] Laurent Bechir: I've used this one for a while :
[14:06] Aargle Zymurgy: guys, I need to run. take care

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