Doc Team/2011-01-12

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[13:01] Daniel Voyager: hey Jeremy
[13:01] Daniel Voyager has pinged you.
[13:01] Nathan Adored: ah, there he is
[13:01] Jeremy Linden: Hello, everyone!
[13:02] Nathan Adored: anyone know if the SL2-based viewrs ditched that bug that causes your av to never get past the puffy-white-cloud form when the viwer is placed onto the leftward monitor?
[13:02] Jeremy Linden: /me does not know.
[13:02] Jeremy Linden: That sounds like the old texture loading issue, though.
[13:02] Nathan Adored: It seems to effect all TPVs tho.....
[13:03] Nathan Adored: You either show up as a cloud, or your av shows up naked, pitch black, and wiht a transparent head.
[13:04] Jeremy Linden:
[13:04] Jeremy Linden: That's about all I know on the subject :-)
[13:05] Nathan Adored: ã‹¡
[13:05] Nathan Adored: ty
[13:06] Nathan Adored: not a lot of ppes here today
[13:06] Nathan Adored: *peeps
[13:06] Jeremy Linden: Yeah, I wonder why...
[13:07] Jeremy Linden: /me is snowed in and working from home today. Big snowstorm!
[13:07] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Mui Lagy
[13:07] Jeremy Linden: Starting in a few weeks, we'll actually have lots of documentation stuff to talk about, but I've got to stay quiet about it for now :-)
[13:08] Nathan Adored: awwww
[13:08] Nathan Adored: ã‹¡
[13:08] Daniel Voyager: cool
[13:09] Nathan Adored: I notice the rules about OHs in general seems to have changed a bit, but I don't know anything beyond that about it, really. That, and that some of the Lindens have had to stop doing their personal OHs. oO
[13:09] KITILA Cortes: can i rez here
[13:09] KITILA Cortes: to work on a script
[13:09] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Lindens are supposed to get training in Spin, to continue their office hours
[13:10] Jeremy Linden: Yeah, there's been some communication policy stuff. This office hour is still in question, too, but I think I can make a good argument for keeping it!
[13:10] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): /me thinks it violates Corporate Transparency
[13:10] Nathan Adored: It would be a mistake for them NOT to continue this OH.
[13:10] Daniel Voyager: don't cancel office hours :(
[13:11] Nathan Adored: But, when the bleep have LL ever listened to what their customers ask? Oo
[13:11] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): We could still meet on Jeremys own time
[13:11] Arawn Spitteler has pinged you.
[13:12] KITILA Cortes: Well at the same time, LL cant listen to everyone
[13:12] KITILA Cortes: there has to be a universal demand for something
[13:12] Nathan Adored: Define "universeal demand"
[13:13] KITILA Cortes: SL is a world wide game, If you have 1,000 ppl wanting 1,000 deifferent things
[13:13] Jeremy Linden: Well, if anything happens, it won't be my call. I'll be sure to update the office hours page and leave a sign here if anything happens.
[13:13] KITILA Cortes: you cant provide all thos request
[13:13] KITILA Cortes: or you dig a grave for yourself
[13:13] Jeremy Linden: Whoops, redundant wording!
[13:13] Nathan Adored: If you mean that 100% of the ppl on the grid have to ask for it before they'll consider it, then nothing requestedwill ever get made.
[13:13] KITILA Cortes: not 100%
[13:13] KITILA Cortes: think of the tea party in RL
[13:13] Nathan Adored: Now now, lets keep pollyticks OUT of this!
[13:14] KITILA Cortes: no politics
[13:14] KITILA Cortes: simple concept of it
[13:14] KITILA Cortes: they got to gether dicussed hte issue
[13:14] KITILA Cortes: and if you agreed you joined in the push to show why
[13:14] KITILA Cortes: so you want a change in SL , you get groups together to dicuss how to show its worth it for LL to do
[13:15] KITILA Cortes: and the benefits from such
[13:15] Nathan Adored: Ah, okay..... thought you were going to say something disparaging about them. I appologise.
[13:15] Jeremy Linden: Heh. Good sentiment, but I think maybe the original Boston Tea Party isn't the best analogy :-)
[13:15] KITILA Cortes: no one said orginal
[13:15] KITILA Cortes: :P
[13:16] Nathan Adored: No, I thiknk he's talking about the Tea Party of today...
[13:16] KITILA Cortes: correct
[13:16] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Is Jia laggy, today?
[13:17] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): If you want change, in SL, you have to organize the minority to overrule the majority
[13:18] Nathan Adored: but who are the minority and who are the majority? oO
[13:20] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): The majority are the ones who wonder where the priorities are, at Lindn LAbs
[13:20] KITILA Cortes: Well I think we all wounder that
[13:20] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): /me thinks hte Web might be jammed
[13:20] KITILA Cortes: It's jsut people like you A that aleart us to the actual communication of such
[13:21] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Who's the elephant?
[13:21] KITILA Cortes: But at same time people are here to have a good time so they dont want to really worry about what LL is doing
[13:21] Jeremy Linden: I think there's a bear floating in front of KITILA.
[13:21] KITILA Cortes: for future reference they care about what they just did
[13:21] KITILA Cortes: There is
[13:21] KITILA Cortes: its a Eco-Life bear
[13:21] KITILA Cortes: Trying to fix its stats
[13:23] Jeremy Linden: Ahem. Anyway, welcome, folks who haven't been here before.
[13:24] Jeremy Linden: This is Documentation Office Hours, where we (are supposed to) discuss matters related to Second Life's online help systems. Feel free to ask other questions as well, since documentation can be kind of a dry subject :-)
[13:24] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Red was just asking, about what groups can be seen, in profile.
[13:25] Jeremy Linden: I must have missed the question!
[13:26] Redrose Alter: yes thank it possible to see 'hidden groups'
[13:27] KITILA Cortes: I believe if they have hte profile able to be searched
[13:27] Nathan Adored: thre was mention you could see certain KINDS of hidden groups if you go to someone's new personal identity page thingy online and tack /groups onto the end of the URL
[13:27] KITILA Cortes: and you google the av it might give a list of names with hte right search
[13:27] KITILA Cortes: even hidden
[13:27] Jeremy Linden: I'm not 100% sure, Redrose. It seems unlikely, at least using official Second Life viewers.
[13:27] Nathan Adored: I gather it was something lke,,,,, if the group was created hidden, then it will show up. If you MADE it hidden, it won't
[13:28] Redrose Alter: k how can group be created hidden?
[13:28] Nathan Adored: dunno, that was a new one on me too
[13:28] Redrose Alter: and thank you so much for explaining this to me
[13:28] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): /me doesn't understand the first thing about it
[13:29] Redrose Alter: :))) makes 2 of us Arawn
[13:29] Jeremy Linden: Generally, you should be able to un-check "Show in my profile" in the group's profile page.
[13:29] Nathan Adored: but it seems to be a bug with the newly created (and still not officially announced) system where your profile info is placed up on a web page here.
[13:30] Redrose Alter: my only concern was that as I have chosen to 'hide' some of my groups....I did not like the idea that the 'hidden groups' could be viewed by anyone else. So you have answered my question, many thanks.
[13:30] Nathan Adored: i.e. like this one:
[13:30] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Have you a link, Nathan? I want to see what Red is hiding
[13:30] Jeremy Linden: Arawn, that's not very nice.
[13:30] Nathan Adored: But, even then, I checked mine, and all the ones that are supposed to be hidden.... are...
[13:30] Redrose Alter: ROFL nothing too exciting I assure you
[13:31] Redrose Alter: again many thanks for this....I am reassured now....phew! I will sit quietly now and learn :)))
[13:31] Jeremy Linden: Interesting. Good to know that our privacy features work correctly :-)
[13:31] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): It souds to me, that should be opt in, rather than opt out
[13:32] Jeremy Linden: For reference, my job working on online help means I often know how Second Life is *supposed* to work, but I don't always know the workarounds to common bugs.
[13:33] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): /me's a bit confused by VWR-24406, and why would Ellla be concerned about Viewer 2?
[13:34] Nathan Adored: I'm wading through my old retweets to see if I can find the blog that mentioned this issue
[13:35] Jeremy Linden: Reading the jira...
[13:36] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): It's a simple issue,but Ellla makes it sound like only Viewer 2 is supported
[13:36] Jeremy Linden: Oh. She's concerned about the latest official viewer because... that's the official viewer :-)
[13:38] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Is anyone here on Viewer 2?
[13:38] Jeremy Linden: I am!
[13:38] Jeremy Linden: /me looks around.
[13:38] Jeremy Linden: Interesting.
[13:39] Nathan Adored: hmmmm.... I must not have retweeted it..... oO
[13:39] Nathan Adored: I'm still on Phoenix viewer
[13:39] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Do Lindens have a choice?
[13:39] Jeremy Linden: Oddly enough, viewer statistics might affect documentation. Lots of our how-to guides and descriptions are based on the assumption that most people are using the latest official viewer.
[13:40] Jeremy Linden: Historically, we haven't been allowed to use third-party viewers on any computer we use for work. I'm pretty sure Snowglobe is fair game, though.
[13:41] Nathan Adored: anyway, the issue apparenty was that only a certian, narrowly-defined KIND of hidden groups were showing up publickly.
[13:41] Nathan Adored: And only on that web page thingy
[13:41] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Is there any sort of metric, for viewer preferences? I know Noobs are often happy to switch to snowglobe
[13:41] Jeremy Linden: Internally, yes. I don't know if we publish those stats, though :-)
[13:42] Jeremy Linden: /me just heard a MacOS sound!
[13:42] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Who's trying to push Viewer 2 is whistlin in the dark.
[13:44] LadyMoon Merlin: hey guys
[13:44] Jeremy Linden: I can't really comment on that, except to say that it's the official viewer, and it's what I support when I write online help :-)
[13:44] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Be sure to get the usage stats
[13:44] Jeremy Linden: Hello LadyMoon. Welcome to documentation office hours. This is an open chat about Second Life's online help (and other stuff).
[13:44] Second Life: Gitana1 (gitana1) is now known as Gitana Blomer.
[13:46] Jeremy Linden: Hmm...
[13:47] Jeremy Linden: Has anyone got any deep thoughts or opinions on the maintenance of online help in a world where there are many viewer choices?
[13:48] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Each viewer should have hover help, written by it's own geeks, but Quality Nurtured by a pro
[13:48] Nathan Adored: dunno.... is it worth it creating help pages showing the eqivalent menu actions in the most popuilar one or two of the TPVs un addition ot ones for the official LL viewer?
[13:48] Nathan Adored: *in addition
[13:48] Nathan Adored: <--- can't type sometimes
[13:49] Jeremy Linden: Nathan, who would be responsible for maintaining those pages?
[13:49] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): /me's been having to watch for typos, today
[13:49] Nathan Adored: dunno
[13:49] Nathan Adored: recruit someone who is involved on that viewer, maybe?
[13:49] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Viewer Team should be working for usability by people.
[13:50] Nathan Adored: yeah, tere is that
[13:50] Nathan Adored: +h
[13:50] Nathan Adored: Grrr..... having two viewrs open, some of my keypresses seem to be being "eaten"
[13:51] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): I've been inspired to preach Quality Nurtured, and it'll be a tough job for Jeremy, dealing with proffessional Geeks, but the Geeks must understand what Users are looking at. Do Geeks actually believe in Users?
[13:51] Arawn Spitteler has pinged you.
[13:51] Nathan Adored: Have we wandered into a plot from Tron: Legacy or something? :D
[13:52] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): /me will assimilate
[13:52] Jeremy Linden: Sometimes, part of my job is to act as a user-advocate, pointing out possible user experience issues based on my own Second Life experience as a Resident.
[13:52] Nathan Adored: (Still haven't seen that movie.... no spoilers please! :D )
[13:52] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): /me still hasn't seen Deathly Hallows, let alone Tron Legacy
[13:52] Jeremy Linden: Or, at least I make it part of my job when I'm on teams who are making new features :-)
[13:52] Nathan Adored: ã‹¡
[13:53] Nathan Adored: Heck, I missed the most recent Star Trek movie, too... haven't been to the theater in.... years... oO
[13:53] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Dealing with Users who do or do not know as much as the geeks do, is an important art.
[13:53] Nathan Adored: /me nods nods nods
[13:53] Redrose Alter: *I watched 'Wall E' the other evening.....such a sweet movie :)))
[13:54] Jeremy Linden: It's a necessity for most technical writers. We need to be able to communicate engineering concepts to a non-engineering audience as concisely and accurately as possible. It's easier when the UI is designed to be user-friendly from the ground up :-)
[13:54] Daniel Voyager: Wall E is a good movie :)
[13:55] KITILA Cortes: lol
[13:55] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): /me'd like to digress, andsugges that LAdyMoon practice up for Pole Dancing, as an olympic experiment in 2016
[13:55] Redrose Alter: *sits quietly and listens again*
[13:55] KITILA Cortes: bear on bear communication
[13:56] Jeremy Linden: Sqeak! Roar!
[13:56] Daniel Voyager: giggles
[13:56] Second Life: Items successfully shared.
[13:56] Second Life: hannanbaal (hannanbaal) is now known as hannan baal.
[13:58] Second Life: This object is not for sale.
[13:59] Jeremy Linden: /me is surprised there aren't more robot Linden bears.
[13:59] Jeremy Linden: Must remember to bother Nyx to make his bear.
[13:59] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Mentors were an important part of Documentation, translating what people couldn't look up
[13:59] Time Minder: You have been online for 1 hours.
[13:59] Jeremy Linden: Arawn, I believe we still have a community translation project.
[14:00] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Don't people still struggle, with those ugly red columns, they can't look up?
[14:01] Nathan Adored: /me reminds everyone that the sheep could look it up. ã‹¡
[14:02] Nathan Adored: Or, rather The Sheep Look Up.
[14:02] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Wellington shouldn't have to
[14:02] Nathan Adored: Okay, I'm making a really, gawdawful pun with the title of an old classic sci-fi novel I've never read.
[14:03] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Do Androids bleep of Robo Sheep?
[14:03] Nathan Adored: ã‹¡
[14:03] Nathan Adored: /me wodners how many sci-fi novels features sheep in their title
[14:04] Jeremy Linden: ...and cutting here for this week's transcript!
[14:04] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): /me now begins the sedition

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