Open Source Meeting/2010-04-01
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Agenda Thursday, 01 April 2010
- Weekly Snowglobe update - Merov Linden
- Line endings and VCSs
- in svn: Property eol-style set to
nativefor plain text based files (except*.shin snowglobe 1 trunk.- Should probably be done in other branches, too, to avoid merge conflicts
- Some binaries might still have the wrong eol-style property
- in hg: How do we handle this once we switch to mercurial?
- require enabling Win32text extension?
- in svn: Property eol-style set to
- WTF? This is getting scary.
Transcript
| [14:02] | Fury Rosewood: | hint hint nudge nudge |
| [14:02] | Aimee Linden: | hello! |
| [14:02] | Fury Rosewood: | hi |
| [14:02] | Merov Linden: | well, there's an agenda : http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Meeting/Agenda |
| [14:02] | Merov Linden: | and I'll comment on what I've been doing and is doing right now |
| [14:03] | Merov Linden: | OK, lets start |
| [14:04] | Merov Linden: | Snowglobe update |
| [14:04] | Merov Linden: | I'll start with 1.3.2 |
| [14:04] | Morgaine Dinova | waves to Merov |
| [14:04] | Merov Linden: | I finally did the source bundles yesterday, updated the wiki, the version manager, etc... |
| [14:04] | Dzonatas Sol: | congrats |
| [14:05] | Merov Linden: | and now 1.3.2 is the default Snowglobe download, 1.4 the current official trunk |
| [14:05] | Merov Linden: | done and done |
| [14:05] | Merov Linden: | pfffew |
| [14:05] | Boroondas Gupte: | :-D |
| [14:05] | Thickbrick Sleaford: | great! |
| [14:05] | Fury Rosewood: | ...ew c.c lol |
| [14:05] | Merov Linden: | I saw some commits on 1.4 trunk so I'll kick parabuild tomorrow and post an update |
| [14:06] | Merov Linden: | now, 2.0 |
| [14:06] | Merov Linden: | I did a bunch of commits using the scripts |
| [14:06] | Merov Linden: | the viewer-external is now synced with beta5 |
| [14:07] | Merov Linden: | I'll sync with the viewer-2-0 official today (few changes....) |
| [14:07] | Merov Linden: | and I'm right this minute in the process of merging viewer-external in snowglobe 2.90 trunk |
| [14:07] | Merov Linden: | pfffew... |
| [14:08] | Aimee Linden: | woah, we're on 2.90 already? |
| [14:08] | Pixel Gausman | annoints merov the merge king |
| [14:08] | Merov Linden: | typo: 2.0! |
| [14:08] | Aimee Linden | thinks she must have missed a year or two |
| [14:08] | Skills Hak: | o.o |
| [14:08] | Fury Rosewood: | so does he get a big vice clamp now? |
| [14:08] | Techwolf Lupindo: | I know my memeory isn't perfect,,,but how did I miss 2.1 though 2.8? |
| [14:09] | Fury Rosewood: | because they were INVISIBO |
| [14:09] | Wut Moorlord: | Fury: :D |
| [14:09] | Merov Linden: | ok ok... make fun of me... <grumpy french voice> |
| [14:09] | Aimee Linden: | would be 2.1 through 2.89 given our current system :D |
| [14:09] | Aimee Linden: | aww |
| [14:09] | Techwolf Lupindo | waits for the 'april fool' comment. |
| [14:10] | Merov Linden: | anyhow... those merges should be rather simple since we've done little merges so far |
| [14:10] | Merov Linden: | I see weird conflicts though but it's mostly because svn merge is brain dead... |
| [14:10] | Merov Linden | won't start ranting on this now... |
| [14:10] | Techwolf Lupindo: | svn doen't have a brain to begine with. |
| [14:10] | Techwolf Lupindo: | :-) |
| [14:11] | Ardy Lay: | Yeah, Fury was fighting some of that last night. |
| [14:11] | Merov Linden: | on another note, I also created parabuild agents fodr the SG2.0 trunk build |
| [14:11] | Merov Linden: | if you subscribed to sldev-commits, you may have seen some failed build passing this morning |
| [14:12] | Merov Linden: | I'm on this and will work to fix that |
| [14:12] | Merov Linden: | asap |
| [14:12] | Thickbrick Sleaford: | it's build log urls are also giving acess denied |
| [14:12] | Alien Faith: | (Latha Serevi is my main) I'm still failing to build a 2.0 viewer on XP/VS2008, but I'm pretty sure it's just inexperience (was spoiled that in Emerald someone had fixed the boost hell already). Will coordinate with Nicky Perian (who asked on opensource-dev) and anyone else who might supply/need help. <sigh> |
| [14:13] | Merov Linden: | Thickbrick: hmmm... let me know which one |
| [14:13] | Merov Linden: | I need to admit I use the internal admin parabuild view so I usually don't click those links |
| [14:13] | Thickbrick Sleaford: | http://secondlife.com/developers/opensource/downloads/2010/trunk/3286/failed-build.Linux |
| [14:14] | Merov Linden: | Alien: the more recent viewer-external should have the boost issues fixed |
| [14:14] | Merov Linden: | well, I've been told at least |
| [14:14] | Thickbrick Sleaford: | That means VS2008 will work? |
| [14:14] | Alien Faith: | Well, I doubt that there's a recipe on any wiki page that will work as-is. |
| [14:15] | Merov Linden: | Thickbrick: those links fail for me too... |
| [14:15] | Dzonatas Sol: | Brad Linden probably touched that boost thingie |
| [14:15] | Merov Linden: | I need to check why it is, surely some parabuild setting I haven't changed when creating (by copy) the new build agent |
| [14:16] | Merov Linden: | anyway, expect quite a bit of commits from me on SG2.0 now and quite a bit of build failing messages in the coming days |
| [14:17] | Merov Linden: | that should calm down soon though |
| [14:18] | Alien Faith: | For a while, should those of us who just want to compile a 2.0 to use and examine, be focusing on viewer-external, probably? |
| [14:18] | Merov Linden: | so, on SG, I think we should consider ourselves in a transition phase right now |
| [14:18] | Merov Linden: | Alien: you're certainly welcome to build viewer-external |
| [14:19] | Boroondas Gupte: | which transition? 1.x -> 2.x? svn -> hg? |
| [14:19] | Merov Linden: | that does build unless you're doing standalone or 64 bits :/ |
| [14:19] | Merov Linden: | 1.x -> 2.x Boroondas |
| [14:19] | Alien Faith: | I would fix up a wiki page for compiling 2.0 on VS2008 if I could succeed in getting a compile to work so I had something to report. At least with viewer-external it's not _supposed_ to be broken this week. :-/ |
| [14:19] | Latif Khalifa: | speaking of viewer-external when can we expect the automatic script to be turned on? |
| [14:20] | Merov Linden: | Latif: whenever Q creates the internal viewer-public |
| [14:21] | Merov Linden: | which is not created yet... Q and the crew were sorta busy with squashing show stoppers till the last minute |
| [14:21] | Merov Linden: | I should be meeting with Q early next week to settle that |
| [14:21] | Boroondas Gupte: | Does that mean development should now be made on the 2.x branch and ported back for 1.x, rather than on 1.x and ported forward to 2.x? |
| [14:21] | Latif Khalifa: | hmm, so viewer-public will be a special branch that gets stuff cherry picked for it |
| [14:22] | Merov Linden: | Boroondas: it's really up to what you're more confortable with, I see pro and con in both approach |
| [14:22] | Merov Linden: | from my selfish standpoint (making most of the merges), I prefer you work on 2.0 |
| [14:23] | Merov Linden: | but, since the build is sort of borken right this minute, I understand if you don't |
| [14:24] | Merov Linden: | ok, that's quite a bit of work for this week stabilizing all that |
| [14:25] | Merov Linden: | when done, I hope to see Pixel, Robin and others jump in and merge their specific features in that 2.0 trunk :) |
| [14:25] | Merov Linden: | How's your time looking guys? |
| [14:26] | Merov Linden: | Am I bloking you? |
| [14:26] | Fury Rosewood: | i was fighting it until today ardy actually if you count 12am = today c.c |
| [14:26] | Pixel Gausman: | i'm so underwater, i'm just starting a new project, so i'm happy u r still thrashing a bit with merge hades |
| [14:26] | Fury Rosewood: | also back from driving little car |
| [14:27] | Merov Linden: | ok Pixel |
| [14:27] | Merov Linden | just realizes that Robin is not here... |
| [14:27] | Boroondas Gupte: | went offline at 14:19, maybe crashed? |
| [14:28] | Merov Linden: | could be |
| [14:28] | Thickbrick Sleaford: | I think maybe some tracking tag for 1.x patches that need porting to 2.0 would help |
| [14:28] | Merov Linden: | ok, anyone else with current Snowglobe plan? (test, feature, patch...) |
| [14:28] | Aimee Linden: | what are we doing procedure-wise bringing stuff forward? Does stuff need re-reviewing before committing? |
| [14:29] | Aimee Linden: | depending how cleanly it applies |
| [14:29] | Merov Linden: | Thickbrick: yes, I have a spreadsheet with some of this and needs to edit it |
| [14:29] | Thickbrick Sleaford: | A wiki page might work for that |
| [14:29] | Pixel Gausman | tries to clean OGP with some bleach so it will 'cleanly apply' |
| [14:29] | Latif Khalifa: | lol |
| [14:29] | Merov Linden: | Aimee: I'd say "it depends" indeed, some patches are small |
| [14:30] | Merov Linden: | so I don't want to overburden folks with review but we should all review the commit when they come through |
| [14:30] | Merov Linden: | with extra attention |
| [14:30] | Aimee Linden: | fairy nuff |
| [14:30] | Fury Rosewood: | freakin cat |
| [14:30] | Fury Rosewood: | DX |
| [14:30] | Merov Linden: | for "big features" (say, more than 2 files and 20 lines changed), we should so a review |
| [14:31] | Merov Linden: | note that lost of patches are just few lines and don't fall in that category |
| [14:31] | Merov Linden: | welcome back Robin! |
| [14:31] | Robin Cornelius: | Hey, sorry was out tonight |
| [14:31] | Aimee Linden: | I know at least one of my previous one I ended up re-implementing "the 2.0 way" as it was a lot cleaner and easier than the original patch |
| [14:32] | Aimee Linden: | so that will need re-reviewing |
| [14:32] | Aimee Linden: | (SNOW-575 if anyone's feeling eager ;) |
| [14:32] | JIRA helper: | http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-575
[#SNOW-575] Reimplement Menu item to hide object selection outlines for 2.0 |
| [14:32] | Merov Linden: | we need to use common sense here I think |
| [14:33] | Merov Linden: | ok, on the "script madness" side, I'm still working on 2 things: |
| [14:33] | Merov Linden: | 1. fix the commit message so we keep some semblance of history (my bad the one we have right now is not very good) |
| [14:34] | Merov Linden: | 2. a "branding" script so that we stamp things as "Snowglobe" or whatever 3rd party name you choose (there's a JIRA on this somewhere) |
| [14:35] | Merov Linden: | the first script is internal, that second one I'll make public |
| [14:36] | Merov Linden: | k, that's all I have for Snowglobe work... |
| [14:36] | Merov Linden: | it's still undergoing major work as you can see but it's coming together |
| [14:37] | Merov Linden: | I feel better now we have viewer-external scripts working |
| [14:37] | Merov Linden: | next on the agenda, eol issues: |
| [14:38] | Boroondas Gupte: | Could the diffs between rebranded and non-rebranded source be make public, too? |
| [14:38] | Merov Linden: | Boroondas: by 3rd party? |
| [14:38] | Merov Linden | not sure he understood the question |
| [14:39] | Boroondas Gupte: | the exported branches will be rebranded to "Snowglobe", right? |
| [14:39] | Merov Linden: | yes, that's the plan |
| [14:39] | Latif Khalifa: | it's still very confusing what exactly will be in this viewer-public |
| [14:39] | Merov Linden: | but it's going to be a handfull of strings and bitmaps |
| [14:39] | Latif Khalifa: | and why the need of rebrand mundging before export |
| [14:40] | Merov Linden: | wait: by making the branding script public, it'll be clear as day what's changed! |
| [14:40] | Boroondas Gupte: | if what the script does is reversible, yes |
| [14:40] | Boroondas Gupte: | otherwise, it's still be guessing |
| [14:41] | Pixel Gausman: | Latif: maybe viewer-public needs to be renamed. it confused me too |
| [14:41] | Latif Khalifa: | well the branch doesn't even exist yet, so it will be something cherry picked for export it seems |
| [14:41] | Merov Linden: | viewer-public is inside LL, it gets exported to viewer-external |
| [14:42] | Merov Linden: | you won't see viewer-public, it gets plenty of "non GPL" stuff in there |
| [14:42] | Pixel Gausman: | Merov: yeah, maybe Q's wiki page just needs to designate which ones are publiclaly accessible, and which are internal |
| [14:42] | Merov Linden: | the idea of calling it that way is that LL devs know that when committing there, their stuff will show up in viewer-external almost immeiately |
| [14:43] | Merov Linden: | I thought it was, no? |
| [14:43] | Merov Linden | checks |
| [14:43] | Pixel Gausman: | maybe i just didnt look carefully enuf |
| [14:43] | Merov Linden: | http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Repository_Strategy |
| [14:43] | Merov Linden: | """The "viewer-public" branch is a Linden-internal branch""" |
| [14:44] | Pixel Gausman: | ok, my bad |
| [14:44] | Merov Linden: | well, we should have a line in the graphic to show "accessible externally" and "LL only" |
| [14:44] | Thickbrick Sleaford: | is it ok to edit that diagram to add a "LL Firewall" line/box on it? |
| [14:44] | Thickbrick Sleaford: | heh |
| [14:45] | Latif Khalifa: | what is confusing me the most is, that now that 2.0 has been declared golden, probably nothing will happen on that branch as the most effort goes into 2.1 |
| [14:45] | Latif Khalifa: | and yet, viewer-public will probably stay 2.0 until 2.1 gets released to the public |
| [14:46] | Merov Linden: | Latif: right, on that viewer-2-0 branch, that's why we need internally to create that viewer-public asap |
| [14:46] | Merov Linden: | I know that Q is committed to do that |
| [14:46] | Merov Linden: | and Nyx is on his back to get it done! |
| [14:46] | Merov Linden: | :) |
| [14:46] | Merov Linden: | and me too :) |
| [14:46] | Latif Khalifa: | but what will be in viewer-public? currently released branch of teh viewer? |
| [14:47] | Merov Linden: | in viewer-public, we'll have all the 2.1 dev work *except* for those viewer-private features, rare ones |
| [14:48] | Latif Khalifa: | ok, that will be good, as not to have viewer-public be basically a source drop for released viewers |
| [14:48] | Merov Linden: | Give Q a week or so to pull that off though: we only had our launch party yesterday night :) |
| [14:48] | Boroondas Gupte: | btw., for publicy developed features, wouldn't it be better to branch from viewer-external, rather than viewer-public, so one can skip the filtering? |
| [14:49] | Aimee Linden: | the plan is that that will be basically our default development trunk |
| [14:49] | Boroondas Gupte: | *publicly |
| [14:49] | Aimee Linden: | the option is do something privately, rather than private by default |
| [14:49] | Latif Khalifa: | ok, that's nice to hear :) |
| [14:50] | Alien Faith: | From my outsider perspective, I take it that my closest approximation to the source of the "latest LL viewer" is going to be viewer-external. I'm not quite following how the code I'd compile would systematically differ from the LL official binary download of the same vintage? |
| [14:50] | Merov Linden: | Boroondas: viewer-external is really meant to be a read-only branch, a simple "sanitized" version of viewer-publi |
| [14:50] | Boroondas Gupte: | yeah, doesn't mean you can't branch from it |
| [14:51] | Latif Khalifa: | Merov, but that still leaves a lot of manual labouir to you |
| [14:51] | Latif Khalifa: | like making external tags |
| [14:51] | Latif Khalifa: | there is no "viewer 2.0 golden" source, so someone will have to tag external one with it |
| [14:51] | Merov Linden: | if Lindens want to develop completely in the open "sans" filtering, they should commit to or branch from Snowglobe |
| [14:52] | Merov Linden: | that'll minimize my merge work |
| [14:52] | Merov Linden: | one thing that plan is aimed at is suppressing the merge accrobatics I've been doing all last year |
| [14:52] | Merov Linden: | improductive, error prone, pain... |
| [14:53] | Pixel Gausman: | not to mention it brings out the grumpy frenchiness. :) |
| [14:53] | Merov Linden: | yeah... that too... |
| [14:53] | Latif Khalifa: | how will export script going to handle tagging situations, like when viewer-external jumps from viewer_2_0 to 2_1-dev |
| [14:53] | Merov Linden: | I'd rather collaborate on stuff with you, take patches in and improve the viewer |
| [14:54] | Morgaine Dinova: | I'm wondering how to get "corresponding source" each time that a new Viewer-2.x comes out. |
| [14:54] | Ardy Lay: | Thanks Thickbrick. |
| [14:54] | Morgaine Dinova: | Not Snowglobe |
| [14:55] | Merov Linden: | wait: viewer-external is basically a copy (sanitized) of the main dev trunk |
| [14:55] | Latif Khalifa: | i think the question is "2.0 golden" is out, how do i get source for it? |
| [14:55] | Merov Linden: | when doing releases, a release branch is created internally |
| [14:56] | Merov Linden: | we have that point in viewer-external and can do a tag there to mark the "becomes next version" point |
| [14:56] | Merov Linden: | We can also create branches in Snowglobe to mimic that branching |
| [14:57] | Alien Faith: | Merov, would we do that with viewer-external and the current 2.0 release, as an example? What's the tag? |
| [14:57] | Merov Linden: | Latif: 2.0 golden code: I have one last pull to do but the beta 5 is a hair close to it (viewer-external I mean, I tagged beta5 this morning) |
| [14:58] | Alien Faith: | And I still want to know how that tagged "nearly the same" version is expected to differ from the original. |
| [14:59] | Morgaine Dinova: | Not too worried about V2-SN2 correlation, they will diverge, inevitably. I'm just worried about identifying "corresponding source" whenever a new Viewer-2.x comes out. If you define a tag and say "Grab that!", that's fine (assuming it does correspond :P) :-) |
| [14:59] | Merov Linden: | Difference will be branding (though not right now, we still export the SL icon and stuff as before) and all "non GPL" things like llkdu code |
| [14:59] | Boroondas Gupte: | llkdu or libkdu? |
| [14:59] | Latif Khalifa: | yeah, i assume there will be viewer_2_0_0 tag in the public svn |
| [15:00] | Merov Linden: | Morgaine: I think we'll have to do specific export to make sure there's no difference (beyond branding) |
| [15:00] | Morgaine Dinova: | That would be cool, Merov. |
| [15:01] | Merov Linden: | The export script is written is a way we can export any hg repo really... it's not bolted to viewer-public |
| [15:01] | Merov Linden: | or cg/viewer-2-0 I'm using right now |
| [15:01] | Morgaine Dinova: | Yeah, make a different branding. Confusion with Snowglobe should be avoided as well, because V2 is not SN2 |
| [15:01] | Merov Linden: | o man, it's 3pm already! |
| [15:02] | Latif Khalifa: | thank you for your time Merov :) |
| [15:02] | Boroondas Gupte: | and we only covered one of three agenta points :-O |
| [15:02] | Morgaine Dinova: | Cheers Merov |
| [15:02] | Merov Linden: | Boroondas: yes :( |
| [15:02] | Merov Linden: | I guess I should give an email answer to the other points |
| [15:02] | Merov Linden: | especially the eol thingy |
| [15:02] | Morgaine Dinova: | UXIG time! |
| [15:03] | Alien Faith: | I think it's awesome that this stuff is coming together, and is public ... but I find it frustrating that it is not documented at all, so I can't compile it on a Windows box or know what exactly it is. Nobody interested in creating a brief wiki page to help with that? |
| [15:03] | Merov Linden: | I need to ask bos or cg a question on this wrt hg |
| [15:03] | Techwolf Lupindo: | And the policy of third party viwers on the pjira. |
| [15:03] | Merov Linden: | Alien: yes please, create a wiki and I'll contribute to it with my knwoledge |
| [15:03] | Boroondas Gupte: | bos is the author of http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/Win32TextExtension :-) |
| [15:04] | Merov Linden: | lots of the build hocus pocus lives in my head right now... I need to put that down somewhere |
| [15:04] | Morgaine Dinova: | If you get run over by a bus, we're screwed :-( |
| [15:04] | Merov Linden: | I think the bus company will be too if it's any consolation |
| [15:05] | DrFran Babcock | shudders |
| [15:05] | Fisher Linden: | Better yet, if he wins a gazillion dollars in the lottery and moves to a private island, we're screwed. :-) |
| [15:05] | Wut Moorlord: | Merov :) |
| [15:05] | Merov Linden: | seriously, CG knows everything I know |
| [15:05] | Merov Linden: | of course, we could be *both* ran over by a bus |
| [15:05] | Morgaine Dinova: | I suggest a better alternative: neither :P |
| [15:05] | Boroondas Gupte: | ask Q how to avoid angry SUVs |
| [15:06] | Merov Linden | likes that one |
| [15:06] | Aimee Linden: | we unfortunately haven't managed to commit Merov and CG to Mercurial yet so that we could do a rollback |
| [15:06] | Morgaine Dinova: | HAHAHA |
| [15:06] | Wut Moorlord: | :D |
| [15:06] | Fury Rosewood: | how about i run him over with my little rc car and call it a close call |
| [15:06] | Merov Linden | shivers |
| [15:06] | Morgaine Dinova: | <3 Aimee |
| [15:06] | Fury Rosewood: | tho if it hits him in the ankles...will probably end with a hospital stay |
| [15:07] | Aimee Linden: | doing a merge on the two might produce a complete evil genius though, so we're probably safer that way |
| [15:07] | Merov Linden: | that starts to look like "Misery" |
| [15:07] | Fury Rosewood: | lol |
| [15:07] | Morgaine Dinova | heads to UXIG ... Take care everyone, and have a good weekend. :-) |
| [15:07] | Fury Rosewood: | taha |
| [15:08] | Merov Linden: | cheers |
| [15:08] | Aimee Linden: | and we've barred Nyx from commiting himself to Hg as he'd probably immediately branch himself a few thousand times |
| [15:08] | Wut Moorlord: | damn griffer |
| [15:08] | Fury Rosewood: | seriously nothing jokingly has happened today |
| [15:08] | Fury Rosewood: | is it really april fools day? |
| [15:09] | Aimee Linden: | did you see the youtube one? |
| [15:09] | Fury Rosewood: | no? |
| [15:09] | Aimee Linden: | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnT7pT6zCcA&textp=fool |
| [15:09] | Boroondas Gupte: | doesn't the new ToS count? |
| [15:09] | Ardy Lay: | Looks like libcaca |
| [15:09] | Wut Moorlord: | Boroondas: hush :P |
| [15:09] | Ardy Lay: | Oh, Google is now Topeka |
| [15:09] | Merov Linden: | or that one: Zimbabwe Switches to Linden Dollars : http://bit.ly/cTqo6Q |
| [15:09] | Aimee Linden: | add &textp=fool on the end of youtube URLs |
| [15:10] | Fury Rosewood: | ...XD |
| [15:10] | Fury Rosewood: | oh lord |
| [15:10] | Aimee Linden: | http://youtube-global.blogspot.com/2010/03/textp-saves-youtube-bandwidth-money.html |
| [15:10] | Aimee Linden: | thought that was great :D |
| [15:10] | Fury Rosewood: | wait is every video being put under text? |
| [15:10] | Aimee Linden: | I've thought loads of times about doing that with SL's rendering |
| [15:11] | Wut Moorlord: | Aimee. want. make patch. nao. |
| [15:11] | Aimee Linden: | not by default, you have to do that or pick textp in the resolution dropdown on the video if it's there |
| [15:11] | Thickbrick Sleaford: | someone did that to quake a few years ago |
| [15:11] | Wut Moorlord: | Thickbrick: and it was AWESOME :) |
| [15:11] | Fury Rosewood: | heh ok yea |
| [15:12] | Merov Linden | really needs to run |
| [15:12] | Fury Rosewood: | bye bye |
| [15:12] | Fury Rosewood: | effs |
| [15:12] | Thickbrick Sleaford: | see you Merov, everybody else |
| [15:12] | Ardy Lay: | Bye |
| [15:12] | Fisher Linden: | Bye |
| [15:12] | Fisher Linden: | Bye Aimee! |
| [15:13] | Boroondas Gupte | waves |
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