User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2009 10 01

paste transcript here[2009/10/01 17:02] Ardy Lay: Hi Andrew
[2009/10/01 17:02] Phantom Ninetails: Greetings Andrew
[2009/10/01 17:02] Andrew Linden: hi everybody
[2009/10/01 17:02] Manatsu Yuhara: hi andrew
[2009/10/01 17:02] Techwolf Lupindo: I was afk doing things to get ready for this weekend.
[2009/10/01 17:02] Twisted Laws: hi Andrew
[2009/10/01 17:02] Morgaine Dinova: Hi Andrew
[2009/10/01 17:02] Moon Metty: hi Andrew
[2009/10/01 17:02] Moon Metty: do as if you're at home
[2009/10/01 17:02] Moon Metty: :)
[2009/10/01 17:02] Andrew Linden: waits for his chair to rez
[2009/10/01 17:03] lonetorus Habilis: hey andrew, i brought a interesting one, (though it might be clinet based, but you be the judge on that)
[2009/10/01 17:03] Moundsa Mayo: We saved you one B^)
[2009/10/01 17:03] lonetorus Habilis: brb getting a bit of coffee
[2009/10/01 17:03] Morgaine Dinova: Voice! I guess xstorm's arrived :-)
[2009/10/01 17:03] Techwolf Lupindo: That may take a while Andrew. :-)
[2009/10/01 17:03] lonetorus Habilis: lol
[2009/10/01 17:03] lonetorus Habilis: i read it as, waiting for your hair to rez
[2009/10/01 17:03] Phantom Ninetails: lol
[2009/10/01 17:03] lonetorus Habilis: so far i know your av never had any
[2009/10/01 17:04] Andrew Linden: I've got a seat!
[2009/10/01 17:04] Fred Rookstown: Andrew, you need to replace the asset server's hamster.
[2009/10/01 17:04] Arawn Spitteler: Andrew has hat handsome quick rez hair
[2009/10/01 17:04] xstorm Radek: Greetings every one
[2009/10/01 17:04] Andrew Linden: yeah, it isn't the asset server. It's the (stupid) interest list
[2009/10/01 17:04] Rex Cronon: greetings
[2009/10/01 17:04] Morgaine Dinova: That's an idea. We should send our hair ahead before we TP, to give it a head start :P
[2009/10/01 17:04] Moundsa Mayo: mebbe not replace, but clone?
[2009/10/01 17:04] Fred Rookstown: Wait wut
[2009/10/01 17:04] Psi Merlin: Hello everyone
[2009/10/01 17:04] Manatsu Yuhara: (damn prim skirts)
[2009/10/01 17:04] reddot99 Republic: interest list?
[2009/10/01 17:05] Rex Cronon: hi
[2009/10/01 17:05] GG Office: Hours HUD v1.5: 5:00 PM: Andrew Linden: Technical issues, SL architecture, physics engine
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Denby/213/45/34 (Started 5 minutes ago)
[2009/10/01 17:05] xstorm Radek: im starting to think its the friends list thats lagging us
[2009/10/01 17:05] Moundsa Mayo: I'm pretty low ARC, except for the attached MegaLag Generator
[2009/10/01 17:05] xstorm Radek: lol
[2009/10/01 17:05] Arawn Spitteler: Does 1.30.0 dump more wok on the Client?
[2009/10/01 17:05] Andrew Linden: Sorry I couldn't make it to last Tuesday's hour. I was way busy. I bailed on two other meetings that day.
[2009/10/01 17:05] Moon Metty: lol Moundsa
[2009/10/01 17:05] Moon Metty: that's ok Andrew
[2009/10/01 17:06] Moon Metty: Simon was here :)
[2009/10/01 17:06] Andrew Linden: The "interest list" is the bit of server code that figures out what you can see and send the updates to your viewer.
[2009/10/01 17:06] reddot99 Republic: where is he anyhow?
[2009/10/01 17:06] Andrew Linden: That is the code that is sucking when it takes forever for things to "appear" in front of you.
[2009/10/01 17:06] Fred Rookstown: Hiding
[2009/10/01 17:06] xstorm Radek: its ok Andrew why not ask for a week off you seem to be doing more work then some of the other linden people ;-)
[2009/10/01 17:06] Manatsu Yuhara: oh yeah friendslist :D i've actually got a problem with that one lol
[2009/10/01 17:06] Andrew Linden: Er... that is, the things that are already there.
[2009/10/01 17:06] Arawn Spitteler: It's his turn to get tied up with the girl and the fire and the rake
[2009/10/01 17:06] reddot99 Republic: lol,
[2009/10/01 17:06] Charlette Proto: sorry tech
[2009/10/01 17:07] Andrew Linden: If you rez something new out and it takes a while to show up... some of that time is caused by the downloading of info used to actually build it.
[2009/10/01 17:07] Moundsa Mayo: Might as well dance while yer up there, Charlette ...
[2009/10/01 17:07] Andrew Linden: If the asset server were having problems then it would contribute to the "rez new stuff" lag
[2009/10/01 17:07] lonetorus Habilis: its also the interest list that makes sims dissapear suddenly and often close by?
[2009/10/01 17:07] Fred Rookstown: So internal network is having traffic issues
[2009/10/01 17:07] Fred Rookstown: ?
[2009/10/01 17:07] xstorm Radek: Charlette i do not think Techwolf needs a snapshot of that side of you
[2009/10/01 17:07] Techwolf Lupindo: Simeply that code. Just sent whats closest and don't purge that list simply because I move 1m. I currently thinks a 1m object is no longer visiable if I move another 1m from it.
[2009/10/01 17:08] Charlette Proto: yeah Mundsa, same thought here but the pole didn't rez, the chair did first
[2009/10/01 17:08] Andrew Linden: No Fred, I don't know of any network/traffic problems.
[2009/10/01 17:08] Moundsa Mayo: Comfort counts
[2009/10/01 17:08] Andrew Linden: The problem with stuff showing up in a timely manner when you arrive in a new region relates to the simulator itself, and some inefficiencies there.
[2009/10/01 17:09] Morgaine Dinova: Andrew: going way back to the original OGP discussions in AWG, the items on the interest list were expected to be controllable through caps, so that you could reduce your downloads to only those items yo
u actually want. (A text-only client would not need to receive visual items for example). Will that have to be figured out from scratch for OGP, or does the interest list already have controllable download sets?
[2009/10/01 17:09] Fred Rookstown: Do we have anyone specific to blame/crucify?
[2009/10/01 17:09] Andrew Linden: I don't have many announcements. I'm not fixing public bugs at the moment, but working on some emergency internal bugs and tools.
[2009/10/01 17:09] xstorm Radek: oh that reminds me i started to see sims blink out and not be seen even when there online still .... any clue why that is ?
[2009/10/01 17:09] Andrew Linden: I hope to get back to bug fixing next week.
[2009/10/01 17:09] Rex Cronon: that lag generator seems to work ok:)
[2009/10/01 17:09] Andrew Linden: I did merge an older bug-fix branch today, whose fixes will be included in sever-1.32
[2009/10/01 17:10] xstorm Radek: thats good
[2009/10/01 17:10] Moundsa Mayo: Heee. K', I won't dial it up any, then, Rex.
[2009/10/01 17:10] lonetorus Habilis: on that snapshot on the table, you see highlighted local light prims, but they are ghost objects, reflected from nearby sims, is this a known "feature" ?
[2009/10/01 17:10] Charlette Proto: I got disconnected and now keep getting a "WARNING: LLVolumeGeometryManager::rebuildMesh: Not all mapped vertex buffers are unmapped!" just like in my SEC JIRAs
[2009/10/01 17:10] Rex Cronon: i dont have one
[2009/10/01 17:10] Andrew Linden: there weren't a lot of bug fixes there -- QA has asked me to break them up into smaller collections, so I only put about 3 to 10 bug fixes in each maintenance branch
[2009/10/01 17:10] Andrew Linden: lesse... SVC-185 was in that branch
[2009/10/01 17:10] Meeter: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-185:
[#SVC-185] (and others): anal about types
[2009/10/01 17:11] Rex Cronon: somebody else said they have one attached
[2009/10/01 17:11] Andrew Linden: as was VWR-13202
[2009/10/01 17:11] Meeter: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-13202:
[#VWR-13202] clicking mouse: triggers arrow key control events
[2009/10/01 17:11] Arawn Spitteler: Sounds Client Side
[2009/10/01 17:11] Moundsa Mayo: Hi Simon
[2009/10/01 17:11] xstorm Radek: ok there is one big problem showing up yet again Ghost prims are back and more a pain then ever
[2009/10/01 17:11] Moon Metty: and the pre-jump?
[2009/10/01 17:11] Arawn Spitteler: Hi, Simon
[2009/10/01 17:11] Phantom Ninetails: Oh that last jira mentioned very much affects me
[2009/10/01 17:11] Moon Metty: hey Simon :)
[2009/10/01 17:11] Simon Linden: Hello, floor's still rezzing...
[2009/10/01 17:11] Phantom Ninetails: It causes my vehicles to plough through people sometimes.
[2009/10/01 17:12] Rex Cronon: hi simon
[2009/10/01 17:12] Morgaine Dinova: Hi Simon :-)
[2009/10/01 17:12] lonetorus Habilis: well, what i saw was not physically ghost
[2009/10/01 17:12] xstorm Radek: hi Simon
[2009/10/01 17:12] lonetorus Habilis: only the local light highlight
[2009/10/01 17:12] xstorm Radek: great to see you
[2009/10/01 17:12] reddot99 Republic: hey simon,
[2009/10/01 17:12] Morgaine Dinova: You're in luck Simon, there's a seat free :P
[2009/10/01 17:12] Charlette Proto: hi Simon
[2009/10/01 17:12] lonetorus Habilis: and the "ghost highlight prims" only showed, if i had those prims within draw distance from neaby sims
[2009/10/01 17:12] Simon Linden: it sure took a long time to show up :)
[2009/10/01 17:12] Morgaine Dinova: Hehe
[2009/10/01 17:13] Manatsu Yuhara: well my (a bit more self-ish) problem with friends list: since i (accidently) requested friendship to myself i keep getting a mail on every login "Manatsu Yuhara has offered to become your friend in Secon
d Life." telling me to login to accept/decline, but no window ever pops up... I even tried logging on with the regular viewer for that but that didn't change anything
[2009/10/01 17:13] xstorm Radek: Charlette no flirting with Simon
[2009/10/01 17:13] Manatsu Yuhara: i have like 92 of these mails now ^^"
[2009/10/01 17:13] Moon Metty: hehe
[2009/10/01 17:13] Moon Metty: hmmm
[2009/10/01 17:13] Charlette Proto: hehe Storm are you jelous
[2009/10/01 17:13] Simon Linden: We need to add some footsie animations to the chairs
[2009/10/01 17:13] xstorm Radek: nope
[2009/10/01 17:13] lonetorus Habilis: heh, mana, and i cant get im to email to work on this account XD
[2009/10/01 17:13] Fred Rookstown: We need more red, overall. :p
[2009/10/01 17:14] xstorm Radek: lol
[2009/10/01 17:14] Moundsa Mayo: Ah, is that YOU, Simon?
[2009/10/01 17:14] xstorm Radek: yes thats Simon
[2009/10/01 17:14] Simon Linden: no, _that_ wasn't me
[2009/10/01 17:14] Arawn Spitteler: I don't know how I'd friend myself
[2009/10/01 17:14] Moundsa Mayo: Long legs ...
[2009/10/01 17:14] reddot99 Republic: why more me?
[2009/10/01 17:14] Manatsu Yuhara: so it's either a bug with both viewers or the server?
[2009/10/01 17:15] Simon Linden: Friending yourself sounds like a bug/condition that should get blocked earlier than you've seen
[2009/10/01 17:15] xstorm Radek: ?
[2009/10/01 17:15] Andrew Linden: Hrm... manatsu. I'll take a note about your problem and see if I can look into it.
[2009/10/01 17:15] xstorm Radek: you can not friend your self
[2009/10/01 17:15] Manatsu Yuhara: well emerald has a friendlist import ^^ and manatsu was on the imported friendlist
[2009/10/01 17:15] Andrew Linden: Ideally we would like to prevent offering friendship to yourself.
[2009/10/01 17:15] Morgaine Dinova: Not being your own friend sounds like a medical condition
[2009/10/01 17:15] Moon Metty: lol
[2009/10/01 17:15] Phantom Ninetails: "friend" is not a verb why are people suddenly using it as a verb today :|
[2009/10/01 17:15] Moon Metty: but did you offer yourself friendship with an LL viewer?
[2009/10/01 17:16] Arawn Spitteler: The usage just sort of Umbrellaed
[2009/10/01 17:16] Moundsa Mayo: Taht's MySpaceSpeak, Phantom
[2009/10/01 17:16] xstorm Radek: that can make a echo error on the friends list
[2009/10/01 17:16] Phantom Ninetails: I KNEW IT
[2009/10/01 17:16] Manatsu Yuhara: i thought maybe it would have been an emerald bug, but uh i logged in with the normal viewer just to get more mails
[2009/10/01 17:16] Andrew Linden: Phantom, you can verbify any noun in the English language.
[2009/10/01 17:16] xstorm Radek: wwwhhhhhaaaa
[2009/10/01 17:16] xstorm Radek: ?
[2009/10/01 17:16] Phantom Ninetails: Well sure, you can, but you shouldn't
[2009/10/01 17:16] reddot99 Republic: and in latin, <.<
[2009/10/01 17:16] Techwolf Lupindo: google it.
[2009/10/01 17:17] Moundsa Mayo: And nounize any verb ...
[2009/10/01 17:17] Arawn Spitteler: looks through his inventory for the Verbial Nounizer
[2009/10/01 17:17] Phantom Ninetails: lol
[2009/10/01 17:18] xstorm Radek: im stating to think some of us are trying to make more bugs then help fix them :-S
[2009/10/01 17:18] Manatsu Yuhara: heh
[2009/10/01 17:18] lonetorus Habilis: andrew, did you see the snapshot on the table?
[2009/10/01 17:18] Moundsa Mayo: Hmm. Make sure you have the latest version, Arawn - it knows that a nounized verb in hte present tense is just a gerund.
[2009/10/01 17:18] Andrew Linden: Yes lonetorus, I was trying to understand what you were saying about that. Could you elaborate?
[2009/10/01 17:18] xstorm Radek: BBOX settings
[2009/10/01 17:19] lonetorus Habilis: ok, i switched on the light render info display
[2009/10/01 17:19] lonetorus Habilis: to see what prims are local lights
[2009/10/01 17:19] Fred Rookstown: Can't really help fix simulator/service bugs since the servers are closed source. Sure, maybe guiding the Lindens to a more precise reason as to why the bug is manifesting can be helpful...
[2009/10/01 17:19] xstorm Radek: why is that showing the BBOX ?
[2009/10/01 17:19] lonetorus Habilis: each prim is marked with a green/blue colour,a nd has two boxes around it too, white and yellow for radius
[2009/10/01 17:19] lonetorus Habilis: now
[2009/10/01 17:19] Rex Cronon: i think i have in my invetory something caled bug rezzer:)
[2009/10/01 17:19] lonetorus Habilis: i was seeing these highlighted prims in a near empty sim
[2009/10/01 17:20] lonetorus Habilis: they where like a fatmaorgana from nearby sims
[2009/10/01 17:20] Andrew Linden: hrm...
[2009/10/01 17:20] lonetorus Habilis: not physical in the havik sense
[2009/10/01 17:20] lonetorus Habilis: havok
[2009/10/01 17:20] xstorm Radek: them are ghost prims
[2009/10/01 17:20] Charlette Proto: is anyone seeing "2009-10-02T00:18:30Z INFO: LLTemplateMessageReader::getSize: Variable Language not in message ChatFromSimulator block ChatData" repeatedly (Ctrl+Shift+4)???
[2009/10/01 17:20] lonetorus Habilis: only visible with the render diaplay on
[2009/10/01 17:20] Andrew Linden: it may be that the debug rendering of local lights info is bugged
[2009/10/01 17:20] lonetorus Habilis: and those prims, would indeed be local lights, but in nearby sims
[2009/10/01 17:20] Arawn Spitteler: Is that the latest Snowglobe?
[2009/10/01 17:20] xstorm Radek: just lump it under ghost prims
[2009/10/01 17:20] Morgaine Dinova: Bah, camera navigation has a pole (as in poles and zeros in control theory) when you look at that texture from directly above. The orientation flips on passing through the normal.
[2009/10/01 17:20] Andrew Linden: lonetorus, best to ask Runitai Linden about that. he wrote that local light debugging stuff
[2009/10/01 17:20] Charlette Proto: yup Snow (today's build)
[2009/10/01 17:21] lonetorus Habilis: okies, will do
[2009/10/01 17:21] Andrew Linden: in fact, he did all the local light work, I think
[2009/10/01 17:21] lonetorus Habilis: heheh
[2009/10/01 17:21] Simon Linden: That sounds like the auto-translator or something that was recently put in there
[2009/10/01 17:21] Arawn Spitteler: It was mentioned in Hippotropolis
[2009/10/01 17:21] lonetorus Habilis: the linden without a oh XD
[2009/10/01 17:21] Twisted Laws: Charlette that message comes from snowglobe and comes for each chat, was mentioned to day as a bug to get fixed quick in snowglobe.
[2009/10/01 17:21] Andrew Linden: My guess would be that the debug info is just wrong.
[2009/10/01 17:21] lonetorus Habilis: i can try to go via pastrami
[2009/10/01 17:22] Charlette Proto: some here must be using Venusian language and confusing the Snow/Google translator
[2009/10/01 17:22] A group: member named Alexandra Tymets owned by an unknown group gave you Sunweaver Space Port,Sunweaver A, Sunweaver Space (167, 150, 12.
[2009/10/01 17:22] Twisted Laws: no, they need a block added to a message but its not getting done :(
[2009/10/01 17:22] Andrew Linden: If you're seeing a distinctive object highlight that you *know* is in a distant region, then yeah -- the render offset is wrong in that debug mode.
[2009/10/01 17:22] xstorm Radek: Andrew thats some of the ghost prims i have been seeing and i had to call in guy linden to remove them for our sim
[2009/10/01 17:22] xstorm Radek: plus we now have 2 more ghost prims
[2009/10/01 17:22] Andrew Linden: Hrm... xstorm, you're talking about "ghosts" that were visible, but not when using the local lights debug info?
[2009/10/01 17:22] lonetorus Habilis: and yes, we see a lot of ghost prims on the burning life estate
[2009/10/01 17:23] lonetorus Habilis: most of the sim restarts are due to that
[2009/10/01 17:23] Andrew Linden: How did your ghosts show up? On land prim counts? Visually?
[2009/10/01 17:23] xstorm Radek: no ghost prims we can stand on but not see
[2009/10/01 17:23] lonetorus Habilis: ghost as in, not visible, but havik thinks they are there
[2009/10/01 17:23] xstorm Radek: no way to see or clean
[2009/10/01 17:23] Morgaine Dinova: This must annoy aircraft flyers immensely. When you loop the loop, the world probably flips as you pass the point where you're looking straight down.
[2009/10/01 17:23] Moon Metty: the old fashioned ghost prim
[2009/10/01 17:23] lonetorus Habilis: they go away with a sim restart
[2009/10/01 17:23] Andrew Linden: lonetorus, when you restart the region do the local-lights "ghosts" go away?
[2009/10/01 17:23] Arawn Spitteler: Did you try editing them?
[2009/10/01 17:23] xstorm Radek: but we do see light from some
[2009/10/01 17:24] Andrew Linden: oh hrm...
[2009/10/01 17:24] Moon Metty: you can't select them
[2009/10/01 17:24] xstorm Radek: but just no way to remove them
[2009/10/01 17:24] Arawn Spitteler: When I get rid of a thing, I set it temp
[2009/10/01 17:24] xstorm Radek: if Guy Linden was on he can tell you what a pain it is
[2009/10/01 17:24] lonetorus Habilis: andrew, they are entirely "not there" and are dependent on having the "originals" in draw distance, bt i think we are mixing two issues here, after the 1.30 roll we have seen many old style ghost prims
[2009/10/01 17:24] Andrew Linden: ok, well then it may be that they are real ghosts. They show up for newcommers to the region?
[2009/10/01 17:25] Rex Cronon: put a script in them tht listns foru to sy die. when it hears that it kills the prim s in
[2009/10/01 17:25] lonetorus Habilis: so i think you render offset idea is correct
[2009/10/01 17:25] lonetorus Habilis: regarding the light ghosts
[2009/10/01 17:25] Andrew Linden: the ghost local lights are visible when NOT in debug visualization mode, in the sense that they light up other things nearby?
[2009/10/01 17:25] lonetorus Habilis: but the physical ghosts, should be more up your alley
[2009/10/01 17:25] Morgaine Dinova: Does anyone have a free flying vehicle script that can loop the loop, to test what the camera does?
[2009/10/01 17:25] lonetorus Habilis: no, only in debug mode
[2009/10/01 17:25] Fred Rookstown: calls the GHostbusters.
[2009/10/01 17:25] Arawn Spitteler: What would hapen, if we had prims that checked whether owner is NULL_KEY, when someone says Ghost?
[2009/10/01 17:25] reddot99 Republic: it loops
[2009/10/01 17:26] xstorm Radek: in some cases the ghost happens when we delete the item but a ghost of it is left on the server
[2009/10/01 17:26] Andrew Linden: if they local lights only show up in debug mode then I suspect they are a rendering problem, but I'm not positive
[2009/10/01 17:26] reddot99 Republic: dont even have to test,
[2009/10/01 17:26] Liisa Runo: yes, the cam does the annoying thing
[2009/10/01 17:26] lonetorus Habilis: andrew, i think you are correct, its mostly a cosmetic isse
[2009/10/01 17:27] lonetorus Habilis: but lets move on to physical ghost prims, as xstorm describes them
[2009/10/01 17:27] lonetorus Habilis: they are much more anoying XD
[2009/10/01 17:27] Morgaine Dinova: redd: judging by looking straight down on the table texture right now, it won't loop. It'll flip the world the right way up on passing through the vertical.
[2009/10/01 17:27] Morgaine Dinova: So you'll never see the world upside down.
[2009/10/01 17:27] Andrew Linden: yeah, I think the SL camera has a gimbal lock effect at the vertical
[2009/10/01 17:27] reddot99 Republic: no, i've seen it
[2009/10/01 17:28] Moon Metty: yup
[2009/10/01 17:28] Liisa Runo: flying the vehicle in mouselook helps
[2009/10/01 17:28] Morgaine Dinova: Nah, it's not gimble locked, you still have the freedom, but it flips the world.
[2009/10/01 17:28] reddot99 Republic: in mouselook and with scripted cameras, but its there
[2009/10/01 17:28] Andrew Linden: you have to be sitting on something with a camera position offset, I think
[2009/10/01 17:28] lonetorus Habilis: well, cant you override the normal cam behaviour with lsl ?
[2009/10/01 17:29] Andrew Linden: Yes, that is what I meant. You have a seat and you set the camera offset using LSL. I think you can get upside down.
[2009/10/01 17:29] reddot99 Republic: andrew you know that hack thats used to get the simulator texture on a object, could a similar trick be used to get a hieght map of a sim or the terrain texture, and will this survive the switch to sno
wglobe? or do we have to petition for a replacement function?
[2009/10/01 17:29] Moon Metty: Andrew, can you think of anything easier to implement than SVC-4874?
[2009/10/01 17:29] Meeter: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4874:
[#SVC-4874] llGetRegionFrameCount() undefined:
[2009/10/01 17:29] Twisted Laws: roller coasters in mouselook take you upside down
[2009/10/01 17:30] Andrew Linden: Hrm... what use would that be? I'll read the jira (looks easy).
[2009/10/01 17:30] reddot99 Republic: its there moon, llget region fps, i belive,
[2009/10/01 17:30] Moon Metty: that's frame per second Red
[2009/10/01 17:30] Morgaine Dinova: Twisted: got a link, or the name of one, or the sim?
[2009/10/01 17:30] Moon Metty: this is just a simple frame counter
[2009/10/01 17:30] Meeter: Timecheck: : office hours is half over
[2009/10/01 17:31] Morgaine Dinova: Yummy, it's blocks for dinner
[2009/10/01 17:31] reddot99 Republic: oh like llgettime but with frames
[2009/10/01 17:31] Twisted Laws: DjDino has one in sandbox goguen often :p
[2009/10/01 17:31] Andrew Linden: Morgaine, I can't imagine anything easier, except perhaps llNoOp()
[2009/10/01 17:31] Moon Metty: lol
[2009/10/01 17:32] Morgaine Dinova: Andrew: that was Moon :-)
[2009/10/01 17:32] Andrew Linden: er... I meant Moon, not Morgaine
[2009/10/01 17:32] Moon Metty: :)
[2009/10/01 17:32] Morgaine Dinova: chuckles
[2009/10/01 17:32] xstorm Radek: has the texture problem been fix i still see gray and black at times
[2009/10/01 17:32] Fred Rookstown: llbreak;
[2009/10/01 17:32] Fred Rookstown: llcontinue;
[2009/10/01 17:32] Fred Rookstown: etc
[2009/10/01 17:32] Andrew Linden: If you like you can link it to Misc-3077
[2009/10/01 17:32] Meeter: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-3077:
[#MISC-3077] List of: Linden-Confirmed Easy Changes/Additions With Large Returns
[2009/10/01 17:32] Morgaine Dinova: Is there a Jira for llNoOp() ? :P
[2009/10/01 17:32] Moon Metty: sure Andrew
[2009/10/01 17:32] reddot99 Republic: also, simon, you still looking to consistently reproduce script lag from mono?
[2009/10/01 17:33] Moundsa Mayo: Yah - SVC-000
[2009/10/01 17:33] Andrew Linden: it doesn't look all that useful to me, but if residents want it -- it isn't hard
[2009/10/01 17:33] Morgaine Dinova: Hehe
[2009/10/01 17:33] Simon Linden: I haven't looked recently, but if you have a way to make it happen, it would help
[2009/10/01 17:33] Moon Metty: well, i've had the thought for quite a while
[2009/10/01 17:33] reddot99 Republic: i do,
[2009/10/01 17:33] lonetorus Habilis: yeah, what do you need it for?
[2009/10/01 17:33] Moon Metty: it would mean a deterministic way to check the region's health
[2009/10/01 17:33] Moon Metty: that's just for diagnostics
[2009/10/01 17:34] Moon Metty: but sometimes you want a clock that ticks along with the sim too
[2009/10/01 17:34] xstorm Radek: ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
[2009/10/01 17:34] Arawn Spitteler: Hi, Zeusdinne, Seats to my right
[2009/10/01 17:34] zeusdinne Baroque: hello
[2009/10/01 17:34] zeusdinne Baroque: rezzing
[2009/10/01 17:34] Andrew Linden: One problem with the frame counter... it's only use I can see is for simulator performance checking, and requires a constant poll
[2009/10/01 17:34] Morgaine Dinova: Why is xstorm's picture now on the bottom of the sim?
[2009/10/01 17:35] Charlette Proto: that pic object sunk into the basement under the house - i had a cam on it
[2009/10/01 17:35] Morgaine Dinova: Me too
[2009/10/01 17:35] Andrew Linden: so anyone who uses it will have a timer() event with periodic measure
[2009/10/01 17:35] Simon Linden: That might get interesting when you cross into another region and the number suddenly jumps
[2009/10/01 17:35] zeusdinne Baroque: Greetings everyone
[2009/10/01 17:35] Moon Metty: true Simon
[2009/10/01 17:35] Arawn Spitteler: Hi, Zeus, just sitting with a couple gods.
[2009/10/01 17:35] Andrew Linden: Hello zeusdinne, welcome to the meeting
[2009/10/01 17:35] reddot99 Republic: or hits debug chanel,
[2009/10/01 17:35] zeusdinne Baroque: I feel honored
[2009/10/01 17:35] Rex Cronon: hi
[2009/10/01 17:36] zeusdinne Baroque: smiles
[2009/10/01 17:36] reddot99 Republic: and sign flips
[2009/10/01 17:36] Moon Metty: mmm, is there a way to see how long a region has been up?
[2009/10/01 17:36] Moon Metty: for non-lindens i mean?
[2009/10/01 17:36] Charlette Proto: any ideas on "2009-10-02T00:32:11Z WARNING: LLVolumeGeometryManager::rebuildMesh: Not all mapped vertex buffers are unmapped!" this is the most common error I get lately in the log - up to 800 times per
minute sometimes!!!! (huge log files)
[2009/10/01 17:36] xstorm Radek: hi zeusdinne
[2009/10/01 17:36] Andrew Linden: you know what? I was just wondering that myself earlier today
[2009/10/01 17:36] zeusdinne Baroque: ~
[2009/10/01 17:36] Andrew Linden: whether we provide any sort of "uptime" stat
[2009/10/01 17:36] Fred Rookstown: There's always placing a lag meter that tracks crashes.
[2009/10/01 17:37] Moon Metty: i'm afraid not
[2009/10/01 17:37] Arawn Spitteler: ritually mentions SVC-22 and SVC-93 in passing: SVC-2502 came up this weekend, when soeone couldn't torture a prim; i told him to come to you.
[2009/10/01 17:37] Meeter: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2502:
[#SVC-2502] types of): Scripted Prim Torture no longer Works!!!
[2009/10/01 17:37] Meeter: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-22:
[#SVC-22] crossing region: borders aren't always treated as vehicles and can get incorrectly returned if the destination parcel is no-entry or parcel-full
[2009/10/01 17:37] Meeter: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-93:
[#SVC-93] PRIM_ROTATION and: llSetRot incorrectly implemented for child prims
[2009/10/01 17:37] Ardy Lay: Charlette, see if it stops when you disable water rendering.
[2009/10/01 17:37] Moon Metty: we just look at how bad a region performs :)
[2009/10/01 17:37] Fred Rookstown: That's what the QHUD lag meter does, anyway
[2009/10/01 17:37] Charlette Proto: let me see Ardy
[2009/10/01 17:37] lonetorus Habilis: only with a sim chnage state via dataserver event, and keep a timer / timestamp comaprison
[2009/10/01 17:37] reddot99 Republic: would be a nice statistic to have,
[2009/10/01 17:38] xstorm Radek: has any one had problems with finding them self in another sim and walking off world but not lag and not crash ?
[2009/10/01 17:38] lonetorus Habilis: [1]
[2009/10/01 17:38] xstorm Radek: i have a screen shot of it
[2009/10/01 17:38] Arawn Spitteler: It should also be possible t get a cout, of undocumented objects the simulato's manging.
[2009/10/01 17:38] Arawn Spitteler: Ghost Count
[2009/10/01 17:39] Moundsa Mayo: Would be nice to hae a bitmapped selector for ALL the statistics in the Stats Window, with optional log to separate file.
[2009/10/01 17:39] Fred Rookstown: Orphaned objects/ghosts?
[2009/10/01 17:39] reddot99 Republic: lol, count undocumented
[2009/10/01 17:39] Andrew Linden: I like the idea of a llGetStat(STAT_FRAME_COUNT) call - a little more general and easier to add new stats
[2009/10/01 17:39] reddot99 Republic: that's a sorta oxymoron,
[2009/10/01 17:39] Rex Cronon: yes storm. it happened at leat once
[2009/10/01 17:39] Moon Metty: yes, Andrew
[2009/10/01 17:39] Andrew Linden: llGetStat(STAT_UPTIME)
[2009/10/01 17:39] Moon Metty: i actually hoped for that :)
[2009/10/01 17:39] Charlette Proto: water reflections OFF and i think it stopped Aardy, thanks, but what would it be?
[2009/10/01 17:39] Moundsa Mayo: llGetStatDetails(list [])
[2009/10/01 17:39] reddot99 Republic: llGetStat(framtime)
[2009/10/01 17:40] Moon Metty: a list yes
[2009/10/01 17:40] Arawn Spitteler: It's like looking at the sewage flow, and deviding the number o people who're suppoed to be upstream
[2009/10/01 17:40] Andrew Linden: Oh right, the list handling.
[2009/10/01 17:40] reddot99 Republic: or better yet, (MY_SCRIPTTIME
[2009/10/01 17:40] Fred Rookstown: While you're at it, maybe a simpler way of accessing lists? (derp[index
[2009/10/01 17:40] Ardy Lay: Charlotte, I'd look in JIRA for Snowglobe I thin you said you are using. If you don't find it, report it.
[2009/10/01 17:41] xstorm Radek: ok when did you let the beta bug back out ?
[2009/10/01 17:41] Charlette Proto: yes fred that would be nice, especially just simple index based array refs
[2009/10/01 17:41] reddot99 Republic: so one can see how much they contribute to sim lag,
[2009/10/01 17:41] xstorm Radek: running off world in a black hole is not fun
[2009/10/01 17:41] Moundsa Mayo: And the converse, AKA SVC-34
[2009/10/01 17:41] Meeter: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-34:
[#SVC-34] another Resident's: moving object freezes it
[2009/10/01 17:42] Charlette Proto: yes Ardy, new Snow but it was happening in the last ver too, I'll JIRA it
[2009/10/01 17:42] Arawn Spitteler: Where's your sense o adventure, XStorm. I've a bar of soap that's pretty much guaranteed to crash you every time
[2009/10/01 17:42] Fred Rookstown: That's actually useful in cases where one is getting griefed, Mounds.
[2009/10/01 17:42] Ardy Lay: Charlette, thanks!
[2009/10/01 17:42] xstorm Radek: lol
[2009/10/01 17:42] Fred Rookstown: It freezes the object so you can AR it
[2009/10/01 17:42] Andrew Linden: Oh right, that one. I told Brent and Michael Linden that if they designed how SVC-34 should be fixed I'd try to do it.
[2009/10/01 17:42] reddot99 Republic: if sat on, dont stop moving,
[2009/10/01 17:42] Moundsa Mayo: Thanks, Andrew.
[2009/10/01 17:42] reddot99 Republic: or if set to damage,
[2009/10/01 17:43] Arawn Spitteler: I thought freezing should be documented
[2009/10/01 17:43] xstorm Radek: no crash just void black and had to have some one TP me out of it
[2009/10/01 17:43] Andrew Linden: They sent me back a design. Meanwhile I'm at least 3 "critical bugs deep" this week.
[2009/10/01 17:43] reddot99 Republic: and selected by someone without move permissions,
[2009/10/01 17:43] Twisted Laws: when you walk off world, turn off advanced -> network -> velocity interpolate objects and you pop back where you were and have a better chance of not crashing
[2009/10/01 17:43] Moundsa Mayo: Sure, just hoping to keep it in the radar.
[2009/10/01 17:43] Moon Metty: hehe
[2009/10/01 17:43] Arawn Spitteler: It might be used to grief, or to stop griefers, but document the usage
[2009/10/01 17:43] Liisa Runo: i dont mind the rightclick way to stop vehicle, i see the select beam, and can AR the person if he dont let go in reasonable time, but some clients can do that without touch beam, and ppl use it to grief vehi
cles
[2009/10/01 17:44] reddot99 Republic: i've seen it as a thing to stop bullets in damage enabled areas
[2009/10/01 17:44] Moundsa Mayo: And some client is apparently LEAVING things selected/frozen
[2009/10/01 17:44] Andrew Linden: I'm not even sure their design is 100% right, but I think it is a start. I'll probably have to implement *something* and then get people who care to use it.
[2009/10/01 17:44] reddot99 Republic: an autoselector
[2009/10/01 17:44] Andrew Linden: I'll put you on the short list of people to have go use it Arawn.
[2009/10/01 17:45] Andrew Linden: Oh yeah, the "select forever" problem. Sigh...
[2009/10/01 17:45] Fred Rookstown: Andrew: 30sec timeout
[2009/10/01 17:45] Arawn Spitteler: My client's been known to keep the minesweeper selected, and make it unplayable
[2009/10/01 17:45] xstorm Radek: oh crap i have to go some one can not find there home
[2009/10/01 17:45] Ardy Lay: xstorm's object just fell to the ground.
[2009/10/01 17:45] reddot99 Republic: leave lod and unselect
[2009/10/01 17:45] xstorm Radek: :-) Ardy it will go poof
[2009/10/01 17:45] reddot99 Republic: thats a fairly simpple solution,
[2009/10/01 17:46] xstorm Radek: bye and thank you
[2009/10/01 17:46] Ardy Lay: Bye
[2009/10/01 17:46] Moundsa Mayo: Still a problem for scheduled service vehicles with no passengers
[2009/10/01 17:46] Arawn Spitteler: I buil a rezzer for Zeusdinne's Vehicle, and it would drop me into the ground, everytime I sat on it.
[2009/10/01 17:46] Rex Cronon: tc
[2009/10/01 17:46] Andrew Linden: well, there are some cases where people will want to select for longer than 30 sec
[2009/10/01 17:47] reddot99 Republic: leaving lod shouldnt affect that though,
[2009/10/01 17:47] Andrew Linden: in any case, there is the "he selected my racing boat" problem
[2009/10/01 17:47] Fred Rookstown: Okay, so when they leave a reasonable radius?
[2009/10/01 17:47] Moundsa Mayo: Then griefing the SLRR when it is running again will be trivial.
[2009/10/01 17:47] Twisted Laws: btw, there was a person that said in the sandbox the other day when people were complaing about clients selecting that said he was using normal client and just edit selecting all the objects... so its not n
ecessary a client problem
[2009/10/01 17:47] Rex Cronon: if there was one function named llRemoveSelection() that removes selection for the scipt that calls is:)
[2009/10/01 17:47] Moundsa Mayo: Yup, and planes, and racecars. Destroys contests and races.
[2009/10/01 17:47] zeusdinne Baroque: on my mars car I have a script now that will poof after 60 sec the avatar leaves vehicle
[2009/10/01 17:47] Rex Cronon: i mean the obect tha has the scipt
[2009/10/01 17:47] Fred Rookstown: So selecting vehicles = no, regular objects = yes
[2009/10/01 17:48] Andrew Linden: if we prevented selections of others objects from pinning the object, then the "select and pin forever" bug will be greatly diminished
[2009/10/01 17:48] reddot99 Republic: bullets=no
[2009/10/01 17:48] Moundsa Mayo: YES
[2009/10/01 17:48] Fred Rookstown: reddot: how would you programmatically define a bullet?
[2009/10/01 17:48] Moundsa Mayo: [YES, ANdrew B^) ]
[2009/10/01 17:48] Rex Cronon: there are som peopole that have made bullets out of ars:)
[2009/10/01 17:48] Arawn Spitteler: Could we detect the selection, we could simply move statically
[2009/10/01 17:48] Rex Cronon: cars*
[2009/10/01 17:48] reddot99 Republic: llSetDamage in damage enabled sim,
[2009/10/01 17:48] Andrew Linden: what about the case of: I'm getting griefed by objects and I want to examine them scenario?
[2009/10/01 17:49] Techwolf Lupindo: The "freezze" on selection should ONLY happen on client side. This is so one can select object to AR while unaffecting any phycial viecules.
[2009/10/01 17:49] Fred Rookstown: Andrew: Within a 10m radius?
[2009/10/01 17:49] Arawn Spitteler: That would mak sense
[2009/10/01 17:49] reddot99 Republic: that works tech,
[2009/10/01 17:49] Moundsa Mayo: THe selecting can store the data needed for examination/reporting but not stop the motion?
[2009/10/01 17:49] Andrew Linden: yes maybe. a limited range
[2009/10/01 17:50] reddot99 Republic: isnt lod a version ofthat?
[2009/10/01 17:50] Andrew Linden: yes moundsa, that should also be true
[2009/10/01 17:50] Phantom Ninetails: I have used the ability to select-freeze objects to save people from followers and orbit cages before, it would suck to lose that.
[2009/10/01 17:50] Andrew Linden: what is 'lod'? I think it means "level of detail"
[2009/10/01 17:50] Liisa Runo: select(integer num){ key asshole = llDetectedKey(0); }
[2009/10/01 17:50] Fred Rookstown: ...
[2009/10/01 17:50] Fred Rookstown: No keys and anuses kthx.
[2009/10/01 17:51] reddot99 Republic: if you cant see it, ie, leaves lod, its unselected
[2009/10/01 17:51] Arawn Spitteler: When my boat dissappears, you have to select it, to make it dissappear, so residual selection could run into some further questions.
[2009/10/01 17:51] Moon Metty: yes, LOD is level of detail
[2009/10/01 17:51] Moon Metty: used for rendering
[2009/10/01 17:51] Phantom Ninetails: I think "LOD" is being misused here.
[2009/10/01 17:51] Arawn Spitteler: Highlyeducatinal
[2009/10/01 17:51] Liisa Runo: select(integer num){ string princess = llDetectedName(0); }
[2009/10/01 17:52] Phantom Ninetails: lol Liisa
[2009/10/01 17:52] Fred Rookstown: Lol
[2009/10/01 17:52] zeusdinne Baroque: ~
[2009/10/01 17:53] reddot99 Republic: select start, select end would also need adding :p
[2009/10/01 17:53] Fred Rookstown: Anyway, off to go nap. Insomnia sucks.
[2009/10/01 17:53] Fred Rookstown: Bye all
[2009/10/01 17:53] Moundsa Mayo: Another 'Nice To Have': on_select/edit event handler with the usual Dectected capabilities
[2009/10/01 17:53] Andrew Linden: goodnight
[2009/10/01 17:53] Moundsa Mayo: JINX, redd!
[2009/10/01 17:53] zeusdinne Baroque: waves
[2009/10/01 17:53] reddot99 Republic: more than the ususal,
[2009/10/01 17:53] Rex Cronon: tc
[2009/10/01 17:54] reddot99 Republic: no 16 index limit
[2009/10/01 17:54] Andrew Linden: 16 index?
[2009/10/01 17:54] reddot99 Republic: sensors and colllisions dont return more than 16 objects
[2009/10/01 17:54] Andrew Linden: oh
[2009/10/01 17:55] Moundsa Mayo: Oof. BIG load on SQL then
[2009/10/01 17:55] Ardy Lay: If griefing objects can tell who is about to AR them then can jam them up with llDialog().
[2009/10/01 17:55] Simon Linden: yeah, when I made that polling device in the corner, I had to do some hacky code to find all the AVs around
[2009/10/01 17:55] Liisa Runo: llDialog jam will be fixed some day
[2009/10/01 17:55] Moundsa Mayo: Yah, narrow arc, spin object
[2009/10/01 17:55] reddot99 Republic: lol, what sort, and could we get it public?
[2009/10/01 17:55] Simon Linden: exacty
[2009/10/01 17:55] reddot99 Republic: ah,
[2009/10/01 17:55] Andrew Linden: there is no SQL at that level of script operation
[2009/10/01 17:55] Meeter: Timecheck: : office hours is almost over
[2009/10/01 17:56] Moundsa Mayo: Ah. WHat was the load consideration that drove the limit, if we can know?
[2009/10/01 17:56] Arawn Spitteler: I expect we may, but can not
[2009/10/01 17:56] Liisa Runo: list keys = llGetSimulatorAgentKeyList();
[2009/10/01 17:57] Andrew Linden: We just limited scripts and other features way back -- mostly for fear of things going out of control so fast that the whole grid would collapse
[2009/10/01 17:57] reddot99 Republic: also, i demand the OBJECT_GROUP object details flag be turnned back on,
[2009/10/01 17:57] Moundsa Mayo: ic
[2009/10/01 17:57] Phantom Ninetails: Oh is this feature requests, I want a PHYSICAL sensor flag
[2009/10/01 17:57] Kaluura Boa: If we can demand, I demand llSetLinkText()
[2009/10/01 17:57] reddot99 Republic: i second phantom's idea <.<
[2009/10/01 17:57] Andrew Linden: some of those limitations are still in place but don't need to be, now that we've got some throttles and better monitoring anti-goo tools
[2009/10/01 17:58] Moundsa Mayo: We'll have to mine the wiki limits page and look for reasonable openeings, then B^)
[2009/10/01 17:58] Andrew Linden: well, what if you had a way to set the text on a face? We talked about that a week or two ago.
[2009/10/01 17:58] Liisa Runo: llSetPrimParams([PRIM_POS_FAR...
[2009/10/01 17:58] Moundsa Mayo: Bring it on!
[2009/10/01 17:59] Andrew Linden: Have the different sensor flags been linked to MISC-3077 yet?
[2009/10/01 17:59] Techwolf Lupindo: The more sensor object flags the better to filter out un-wanted objects to get the under 16 list.
[2009/10/01 17:59] Moundsa Mayo: HAVE to be less resource-intensive than HTTP-on-a-prim!
[2009/10/01 17:59] Andrew Linden: I recall that others were asking for more advanced sensor flags.
[2009/10/01 17:59] Phantom Ninetails: If 3077 is the "confirmed easy" one then my PHYSICAL sensor flag is on there
[2009/10/01 17:59] Moundsa Mayo: Definitely!
[2009/10/01 17:59] Meeter: Thank: you for coming to Linden office hours
[2009/10/01 18:00] Arawn Spitteler: Sensing objects by creator would be a wonder to Kitto
[2009/10/01 18:00] Liisa Runo: and yes, placing a string to prim face will be awesome, will prolly replace about 90% of llSetText
[2009/10/01 18:00] Manatsu Yuhara: yeah :D
[2009/10/01 18:00] Andrew Linden: right, that was what I was thinking of. Kitto had requested some new capabilities there.
[2009/10/01 18:00] reddot99 Republic: also, andrew, i got a gun up to 1300+rounds per minute without hitting grey goo,, if a greifer rezzed stuff at that rate, a sim will be filled very fast <.<
[2009/10/01 18:00] Arawn Spitteler: Oh, sensing of incomplete names, etc
[2009/10/01 18:01] Moundsa Mayo: LIKE %
[2009/10/01 18:01] Phantom Ninetails: Hmm regex sensors..
[2009/10/01 18:01] Andrew Linden: really? hrm I have to refresh my notion of what the grey goo limits are, that seems too high
[2009/10/01 18:01] Andrew Linden: I thought it was something like 600/sec
[2009/10/01 18:01] Rex Cronon: reddot. i have bad news. peopl are already using that:(
[2009/10/01 18:01] Andrew Linden: er... 600/min
[2009/10/01 18:02] reddot99 Republic: i had to do a bit of cheatting to get rezzers that high,
[2009/10/01 18:02] Charlette Proto: 600/sec I cringed hehe
[2009/10/01 18:02] Andrew Linden: ah, exploring the boundaries of the fence are you?
[2009/10/01 18:02] reddot99 Republic: no, working on weapons for people
[2009/10/01 18:02] zeusdinne Baroque: haha
[2009/10/01 18:03] Andrew Linden: ok I've got to go now. Thanks for coming
[2009/10/01 18:03] Moundsa Mayo: Thanks for your time, Andrew & Simon!
[2009/10/01 18:03] Phantom Ninetails: Fare well Andrew
[2009/10/01 18:03] Charlette Proto: byee andrew
[2009/10/01 18:03] Moon Metty: alright Andrew
[2009/10/01 18:03] Rex Cronon: tc andrw
[2009/10/01 18:03] Moon Metty: great meeting
[2009/10/01 18:03] zeusdinne Baroque: nice meeting you all
[2009/10/01 18:03] Moon Metty: thanks Simon :)
[2009/10/01 18:03] Rex Cronon: likewise zeusdinne
[2009/10/01 18:03] reddot99 Republic: simon, thats the best way to demonstrate the mono lag by the way,
[2009/10/01 18:03] zeusdinne Baroque: :0
[2009/10/01 18:03] Psi Merlin: Thanks Andrew
[2009/10/01 18:03] zeusdinne Baroque: ;)
[2009/10/01 18:04] Manatsu Yuhara: o.o
[2009/10/01 18:04] Ardy Lay: Bye
[2009/10/01 18:04] Twisted Laws: thanks, bye
[2009/10/01 18:04] Simon Linden: Thanks all for coming ... I have to get back to work :( Busy day today
[2009/10/01 18:04] reddot99 Republic: see ya,
[2009/10/01 18:05] Moon Metty: good luck Simon
[2009/10/01 18:05] Moundsa Mayo: Appreciate your being here, Simon!
[2009/10/01 18:05] Charlette Proto: good luck Simon (still under NDA?)
[2009/10/01 18:05] Simon Linden: Bye, take care

User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2009 10 01

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