User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours/2010 01 20

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Transcript of Babbage Linden's office hours:

[3:06] Talarus Luan: Heeeeeeere's Babbage!

[3:06] Liandra Ceawlin: Silly kitty. Yowling all night. X_x

[3:06] Liandra Ceawlin: Hi Babbage!

[3:06] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Hey Babbage.

[3:06] Kaluura Boa: Morning Babbage

[3:06] Lares Carter: Heya Babbage

[3:06] Babbage Linden: morning everyone

[3:06] Toy Wylie: Hi Babbage!

[3:06] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Babbage

[3:07] Babbage Linden: how's things?

[3:07] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Waiting for the snow to come down again. :)

[3:07] Ardy Lay: Good morning Babbage. Assuming it is morning where you are.

[3:07] Talarus Luan: Well, we haven't crashed the sim yet. <.<

[3:07] Liandra Ceawlin: Spifftacular!

[3:07] Morgaine Dinova: Sahk: there's more snow coming?

[3:07] Babbage Linden: yes, it's morning and raining in brighton

[3:07] Babbage Linden: the snow has gone, but we're waiting for more

[3:07] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Morgaine - Yeah, they've forecast more snow.

[3:07] Morgaine Dinova: Ew

[3:08] Babbage Linden: (luckily i managed to get a bit of skating in while the roads were clear)

[3:08] Uchi Desmoulins: Heya Squirrel! :3

[3:08] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Hey Squirrel.

[3:08] Babbage Linden: i'm going to be in SF next week, so there won't be an office hours then

[3:08] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: AW.

[3:08] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Aw*

[3:09] Morgaine Dinova: Babbage, I have a general question to slot in if your topics run out.

[3:09] Latif Khalifa: Babbage, I have a question about the planned sequence of introductin of script limits. My understanding is that the limit enforcement will occur before we have ability to specify how much memory our scripts need.

[3:09] Gunter Vandyke: Hi all

[3:10] Squirrel Wood: Hellos

[3:10] Latif Khalifa: If that is true, don't you thing is horribly wrong sequence to do things in?

[3:10] Liandra Ceawlin: Wow, there are like, a zillion people here. O_O Hai zillion-people!

[3:10] Babbage Linden: latif, no, enforcement will not happen for at least 6 months afer the limits are visible

[3:10] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Yeah, more people than usual. xP

[3:10] Uchi Desmoulins: People are excited about scripts

[3:11] Latif Khalifa: Babbage, that is not at all what I am asking

[3:11] Babbage Linden: and we'll use those 6 months to consult with residents

[3:11] Babbage Linden: in cases where people thinks the limits are wrong

[3:11] Squirrel Wood: Well, I can't usually make this OH :p

[3:11] Adasyd Nino: If you script responsibly, shouldn't there not be a problem?

[3:11] Liisa Runo: i heard they dont get limited before we ahve tools to monitor the resources, and better ways to do stuff. stuff like llSetLinkText() and what not

[3:11] Ovaltine Constantine: I think Ive asked this before but I dont remember if I got an answer. We'll be able to see how much script TIME (in addition to memory) we're using, right?

[3:11] Latif Khalifa: I am asking about the ability to set the memory usage. so my touch script that opens the door will get "charded" 64k limit when it fact is uses 1k at most

[3:11] Latif Khalifa: charged

[3:12] Babbage Linden: we're planning to get the big scripts project done before enforcement too

[3:12] Morgaine Dinova: It's about VM state. When an attachment or vehicle crosses a sim boundary, what VM state requires continuity across the handover, other than user script state? (I'm thinking about interop, where the 3rd party region is not running LL code, and the scripting engine is not yours, but a script passes from that region to yours, or viceversa.)

[3:12] Babbage Linden: which is the project which allows mono scripts to specify their reserved memory

[3:12] Babbage Linden: both to more than 64K or less

[3:12] Morgaine Dinova: (Leave question for later when your stuff runs out)

[3:12] Latif Khalifa: So the ability to set memoru will come before the limits are enforced?

[3:13] Babbage Linden: that is the plan yes

[3:13] Squirrel Wood: expect many scripts to request the maximum memory even if they never ever ever ever need that much. just because they can.

[3:13] Liandra Ceawlin: Now, what happens if our code size is larger than 64k, if the reserved limit is set via a script call? >_> Or how does that work?

[3:13] Latif Khalifa: i got a different info from Kelly, just trying to find one way or the other

[3:13] Babbage Linden: also, jack, gisele and I met last week and the current plan is to both show LSL scripts as reserving 16KB

[3:14] Babbage Linden: and to account for Mono bytecode sharing

[3:14] Babbage Linden: which are both things that have been requested here

[3:15] Babbage Linden: the combination should make script limits as trasparent as possible

[3:15] Babbage Linden: transparent, even

[3:15] Latif Khalifa: that's very good news, if we get to set memomory before enforcement, i have a ton of small scripts that do simple things and do not require a lot of memory at all

[3:16] Latif Khalifa: charging each of them 64k would probably put me over the top

[3:16] Babbage Linden: yes

[3:16] Yuu Nakamichi: what about squirrel's comment?

[3:16] Babbage Linden looks back

[3:16] Yuu Nakamichi: expect a lot of scripts to take the max memory without need?

[3:17] Babbage Linden: yuu, no, that would be like having scripts rezzing all the prims they can, just before they can

[3:17] Liisa Runo: when we get the new set of functions and useless limits removed we dont need those lil scripts anymore, in most cases

[3:17] Babbage Linden: it's not very useful

[3:18] Talarus Luan: Speaking of the new functions, do you have a confirmed list of the ones you are putting in and in what versions yet?

[3:18] Liandra Ceawlin: I think the efficient scripting additions will make the memory limits a lot less constraining, myself. http://www.ceawlin.com/projects/DNDHUD/ for example is currently 66 scripts at minimum for interactivity. Could be done with one, two at most, just with the effecient scriptsing functions. <_<

[3:18] Liandra Ceawlin: And I need more coffee before I can type. X_x

[3:18] Sahkolihaa Contepomi gives Liandra a strong coffee.

[3:19] Babbage Linden: the changes for efficient scripts are:

[3:20] Babbage Linden waits for wiki to load...

[3:20] Talarus Luan: <.<

[3:20] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Haha

[3:20] Liandra Ceawlin: \o/

[3:20] Liandra Ceawlin: Oh oh documentation ^_^ I been waiting eagerly for that. :P

[3:20] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Running like a snail again?

[3:20] Ardy Lay: Are we about to flashmob the wiki?

[3:21] Morgaine Dinova kicks the wiki for Babbage

[3:21] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Hey Mel.

[3:21] Babbage Linden: llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast(integer link, list params)

[3:21] Squirrel Wood: I can make sims scream in pain just by derezzing scripted prims :p

[3:21] Melchizedek Blauvelt: hi Sah

[3:21] Babbage Linden: works as llSetLinkPrimitiveParams (http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlSetLinkPrimitiveParams) except does not force the script to sleep after calling, allowing it to be used in a tight loop.

[3:21] Liandra Ceawlin: \o/

[3:21] Babbage Linden: list llGetLinkPrimitiveParams(integer linknumber, list params)

[3:21] Babbage Linden: works as llGetPrimitiveParams (http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlGetPrimitiveParams), except allows a script to specify a link number in the link set. This function does not force the script to sleep after being called, allowing it to be used in a tight loop.

[3:22] Babbage Linden: PRIM_TEXT

[3:22] Babbage Linden: Get/set a primitive's floating text via llGet/SetLinkPrimitiveParams. Followed by string msg, vector color, float alpha.

[3:22] Squirrel Wood: finally

[3:22] Liisa Runo: <3

[3:22] WADE1 Jya: that sounds really cool

[3:22] Babbage Linden: those will hopefully ship in 1.38

[3:22] Liandra Ceawlin: If you weren't on the other side of the world, I'd buy you a beer or pizza, Babbage. XD

[3:23] Babbage Linden: and be available for beta in mid feb

[3:23] Kaluura Boa: I foresee a lot of invisible hovertext used as storage...

[3:23] Talarus Luan: Anything on texture animation or particle system?

[3:23] Babbage Linden: we have some other changes in the backlog

[3:23] Babbage Linden: but they are unlikely to get done before 1.38 ships

[3:24] Latif Khalifa: any chance of getting link particle system set?

[3:24] Babbage Linden: including llLinkParticleSystem

[3:24] Latif Khalifa: yey

[3:24] Babbage Linden: * PRIM_NAME, PRIM_DESC

[3:24] Toy Wylie: THAT'S good news! :)

[3:24] Babbage Linden: llAvatarOnLinkSitTarget / llLinkSitTarget

[3:24] Liandra Ceawlin: Awesomesauce.

[3:24] Latif Khalifa: whoa. prim_desc was really missing

[3:24] Gunter Vandyke: wow

[3:24] Qie Niangao: very nice

[3:24] WADE1 Jya: SWEET!

[3:24] Kaluura Boa: Yay!

[3:24] Toy Wylie: Oh my :)

[3:25] Gunter Vandyke: now we hear it, we want it quick L ㋡ L

[3:25] Babbage Linden: (we haven't done those yet, and their's no guarantee we'll get to them)

[3:25] Babbage Linden: (we're agile)

[3:25] Babbage Linden: (but they are on the backlog)

[3:25] Babbage Linden: the current additions should make the biggest difference

[3:25] Liandra Ceawlin: fast prim params and link text are like 99% of it, imo anyways. :o Groovy groovy.

[3:25] Latif Khalifa: just hope they don't go the way of region windlight :) "soon to be implemented" since 2007

[3:26] Babbage Linden: and allow the number of attached scripts to go down from 100 on average...

[3:26] Gunter Vandyke: L ㋡ L

[3:26] Qie Niangao: any other *Fast() functions coming / needed?

[3:26] Babbage Linden: they are implemented and in QA

[3:26] Babbage Linden: there may be other Fast functions in future

[3:26] Babbage Linden: and I'm going to try to make sure we don't add any more functions with sleep times

[3:26] Talarus Luan: Thank the gods. :D

[3:26] WADE1 Jya: yay for fast functions! loves it....

[3:27] Babbage Linden: (as it doesn't work)

[3:27] Talarus Luan: Is there any consideration of moving llEmail to something like the http throttling mechanism instead of that dreadful sleep?

[3:27] Squirrel Wood: Have you ever tried to work with 4k unlinked prims and make them work together? ^^

[3:27] Imaze Rhiano: having multiple timers with messages would be also great

[3:27] Babbage Linden: in future i'd like use to use throttles tied to resource pols where we need rate limiting

[3:27] Qie Niangao: yeah, llEmail()... sometimes there's just no substitute.

[3:28] Babbage Linden: llEmail is a good example

[3:28] Toy Wylie: signed timers or llDialogs with builtin timeouts ...

[3:28] Squirrel Wood: llSetTimerEvent([integer ID],float time) ?

[3:28] Talarus Luan: I mean, everyone works around it.. with more scripts!

[3:28] Babbage Linden: it should be tied to N emails/s/m^2

[3:28] Liandra Ceawlin: I been calling out to an email gateway on appengine to get around the 30s delay when I have to, lol. <_<

[3:28] Babbage Linden: or N emails/s/avatar

[3:29] Babbage Linden: working around it with multiple scripts just wastes simulator memory and cpu and scripter time

[3:29] Latif Khalifa: per minute, you often need to rapid fire 4-5 and then nothing for a long time

[3:29] Toy Wylie: Squirrel: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4536

[3:29] Morgaine Dinova: Babbage: it should not be tied to m^2, or your whole allocation policy becomes toast when you break the tie to acreage in the face of competition.

[3:29] Babbage Linden: latif, the script throttles work well there

[3:29] Babbage Linden: llHTTPRequest uses them already

[3:29] Babbage Linden: it allows you to have pulses or sustained send rates

[3:29] Latif Khalifa: yes, similar solution for llEmail() would be awesome

[3:30] Qie Niangao: yeah, the llHTTPRequest model is fine for all these, I think, if it can be generalized

[3:30] Babbage Linden: morgaine, it's tied to resource pools

[3:30] Babbage Linden: which can be tied to anything

[3:30] Babbage Linden: m^2 or GBP for example ;-)

[3:30] Talarus Luan: That would be nice. :) Lots of in-world systems still use llEmail, and 10-20 slave scripts per object (networked vendor, for example) to implement.

[3:31] Squirrel Wood: m² ?

[3:31] Babbage Linden: right, there's lots of low hanging fruit here

[3:31] Squirrel Wood: m³ ?

[3:31] Morgaine Dinova: Babbage: Good. Virtual acreage is a bad proxy for physical resources, and you'll be removing it, trust me. ;)

[3:31] Babbage Linden: we still have some resource pool bugs to fix

[3:31] Babbage Linden: once that done I'll be writing an blog post about the new throttling proposal internally

[3:32] Babbage Linden: and will try to get it in to the standards for script API design

[3:32] Babbage Linden: (at the moment some features are adding more sleep delays as that's just how we've always done it...)

[3:32] Latif Khalifa: Babbage, I saw your test c# tweets. Awesme work. Do you have any idea when can we get to play with it on the beta grid?

[3:33] Babbage Linden: thanks latif

[3:33] Babbage Linden: i've been working on it for a demo in SF next week

[3:33] Latif Khalifa: :)

[3:33] Babbage Linden: (it's difficult to sell the benefits of scripting, but the benefits of oauth integration are much clearer...)

[3:34] Kaluura Boa: Can we have an URL? For those who aren't on Twitter

[3:34] Latif Khalifa: i think selling scripting improovements as the way of integration with the social networking sites is a good way to go about it :)

[3:35] Babbage Linden: the public beta of C# is still a way off, as a lot of the work is in building the sandbox

[3:35] Babbage Linden: (which is actually good, as we can show the benefits without the sandboxing...)

[3:35] Liandra Ceawlin: Wow, but but.... Scripts are what bring the world to life. Without them, everything just sits there (like me without coffee). O_O

[3:35] Latif Khalifa: is it realistic to expect a beta during the second part of this year?

[3:35] Babbage Linden: exactly liandra

[3:36] Babbage Linden: i was thinking of doing a demo where i turned the scripts off in the linden regions for a day

[3:36] Liandra Ceawlin: Lol, that would rawk.

[3:36] Latif Khalifa: hehehe

[3:36] Babbage Linden: so people can see how much of SL relies on them ;-)

[3:36] Simon Kline: lololol

[3:36] Qie Niangao: heh, yeah, but people are so easily charmed by pretty meshy shadowy prims.

[3:36] Liandra Ceawlin: They'd be all @_@.

[3:36] Babbage Linden: the script limits UI will help

[3:36] Simon Kline: *imagines walkin into a door that usually opens*

[3:36] Babbage Linden: we'll be able to say "open up the about scripts tab, and see how many scripts are running here now"

[3:37] Ovaltine Constantine: The script limits UI that tells us how much memory AND script time we're using, right?

[3:37] Babbage Linden: we're talking about naming the scripting roadmap project pixie dust

[3:37] Latif Khalifa: nice :)

[3:37] Talarus Luan: Oh, is there any movement towards some kind of transactional confirmation on things like llGiveMoney() and llGiveInventory()?

[3:37] Liisa Runo: sometimes with griefer attack on LL sandbox, some linden turn off scripts, and forgot to set them back, the sandbox has bout 2 people ther untill the swcripts get turned back on, and the average agent count go back to 30

[3:37] Babbage Linden: as scripts are the magic, invisible secret sauce that makes sl more than 3d chat

[3:38] Latif Khalifa: exactly!

[3:38] Qie Niangao: about visibility of script memory, usage, etc... any hope of that not being tied to Viewer 2.0? I have, uh, calendar concerns.

[3:38] Babbage Linden: my current oauth experiments are using this account https://twitter.com/sltester

[3:38] Squirrel Wood: Mind you, there is STILL no way to reject a payment

[3:38] Morgaine Dinova: We need info about the closed scripts that WE'RE running in attachments, separate from land stats. Many objects we purchase have no-mod scripts in them, and we have no way of telling good from bad.

[3:38] Babbage Linden: so follow that if you'd like to see where i've got to with the demo

[3:39] Babbage Linden: notice on that page, the tweets are sent from Second Life Script

[3:39] Babbage Linden: which is an application registered with twitter

[3:39] Babbage Linden: every scripted product in SL will be able to register an application

[3:40] Babbage Linden: and residents will be able to control access on a per application basis

[3:40] Babbage Linden: so if Foogo starts spamming too much you can disable it

[3:40] Babbage Linden: but still allow Bargo to send updates

[3:41] Babbage Linden: and of course, because it's using OAuth it avoids the password antipattern

[3:41] Babbage Linden: which is used by things like tweethud

[3:41] Morgaine Dinova: All very cool. And yet another step in the direction of making Second Life just First Life. So both cool and not cool.

[3:41] Babbage Linden: you only ever give your twitter username and password to twitter

[3:42] Babbage Linden: if you'd like to be able to add this functionality to your creations before C# is out

[3:42] Babbage Linden: just get this HMAC function to work:

[3:42] Babbage Linden: http://lsl.pastebin.com/m54880359

[3:42] Babbage Linden: then i'll port all the rest of the code back to LSL and open source everything

[3:42] Babbage Linden: ;-)

[3:43] Latif Khalifa: doing it without arrays... talk about maschism :P

[3:43] Babbage Linden: right, the code in C# is:

[3:43] Liandra Ceawlin: What was wrong with it, Babbage?

[3:43] Babbage Linden: i don't know, it looks like it should work

[3:43] Babbage Linden: but doesn't match python HMAC

[3:43] Liandra Ceawlin: Oh, still broken. :<

[3:44] Babbage Linden: yes

[3:44] Liandra Ceawlin: I looked at it a little, but that kinda stuff is over my head. X_x

[3:44] Babbage Linden: i spent 3 vacation days on it and couldn't get it to work

[3:44] Babbage Linden: whereas it took 10 minutes in C#

[3:44] Latif Khalifa: sounds like a contest challenge :)

[3:44] Talarus Luan: Meh... I've implemented XTEA using similar functions.. maybe after I sleep. :P

[3:44] Latif Khalifa: you got c# code handy?

[3:44] Morgaine Dinova: Completely uncommented, makes it difficult to maintain, and difficult to ask people to help fix it if they have to figure it out from scratch.

[3:44] Babbage Linden: yes, getting the C# code now

[3:45] Babbage Linden: morgaine, it's nearly all strife onizuka's combined library

[3:45] Morgaine Dinova: Give him a smack :P

[3:45] Babbage Linden: which does all the base64/string/list conversion

[3:45] Talarus Luan: It's a SHA1 hmac

[3:45] Babbage Linden: yes

[3:45] Squirrel Wood: The error is clear as day to me! All that needs to be added is llMakeItWork(); ^^

[3:46] Liandra Ceawlin: LSL's compiler warnings leave something to be desired. I spent like 4 hours trying to find a bug in the wrong place, and it ended up being a semicolon at the end of an if statement that somehow got typoed in there. X_x

[3:46] Latif Khalifa: lol

[3:46] Talarus Luan: So, it has to work with the python version? or?

[3:46] Latif Khalifa: python just to verify the correctness, it should spit out the same thign

[3:46] Babbage Linden: yes, it needs to match python/<your other working HMAC-SHA1 implementation here>

[3:46] Morgaine Dinova: Normally I'd recommend using the compiler flag --compile_the_comments_not_the_code ... but there are no comments :P

[3:47] Babbage Linden: there are lots of llOwnerSay calls in the bits I added

[3:47] Morgaine Dinova: Latif: good idea

[3:47] Babbage Linden: which follow the transforms through

[3:47] Babbage Linden: i assumed strife's combined library worked

[3:47] Babbage Linden: anyone have experience using it?

[3:47] Becky Pippen: a little

[3:48] Talarus Luan: Nope.

[3:48] Babbage Linden: getting that LSL HMAC-SHA1 function working would be more useful to me than pizza ;-)

[3:48] Grid Status Update: [RESOLVED] Brief Service Portal Outage at 9 p.m. Pacific Tonight

[3:48] Grid Status Update: [Resolved} Our support system vendor will be restarting the system at 9 p.m. Pacific this evening. Support tickets and chat will be unavailable for about five minutes.

[3:48] Babbage Linden: anyway, in C# in SL the code is

[3:49] Babbage Linden: using System.Security.Cryptography;

[3:49] Babbage Linden: System.Text.ASCIIEncoding encoding = new System.Text.ASCIIEncoding();

[3:49] Squirrel Wood: Twitter is over capacity. - LOL ^^

[3:49] Babbage Linden: byte[] keyByte = encoding.GetBytes(keyString);

[3:49] Babbage Linden: byte[] signatureBaseBytes = encoding.GetBytes(signatureBase);

[3:49] Babbage Linden: HMACSHA1 hmacsha1 = new HMACSHA1(keyByte);

[3:49] Ceawlin Steamweaver: Grumble. Kitty keeps tearing the phone line out of the wall. X_x Did I miss anything?

[3:49] Babbage Linden: byte[] hashmessage = hmacsha1.ComputeHash(signatureBaseBytes);

[3:49] Babbage Linden: return System.Convert.ToBase64String(hashmessage);

[3:49] Babbage Linden: and that's it :-D

[3:50] Babbage Linden: all borrowed from an example on the web

[3:50] Toy Wylie: Because you're cheating with a library :P

[3:50] Talarus Luan: Yeah, well.. :P Library function vs code-from-scratch :P

[3:50] Babbage Linden: exactly

[3:50] Babbage Linden likes libraries

[3:50] Yuu Nakamichi: :)

[3:50] Ardy Lay: That's what libraries are for.

[3:50] Toy Wylie: Give us libraries in LSL ;)

[3:50] Babbage Linden: i also have byte arrays

[3:50] Latif Khalifa hopes we get a lot of these libs when we get c# :)

[3:50] Toy Wylie: Then we can cheat too ;)

[3:51] Babbage Linden: latif, I'm hoping to give you as much of the .NET framework as possible

[3:51] Squirrel Wood: L-SL - Libraries in SL ^^

[3:51] Babbage Linden: collections and cryptography are going to be super handy

[3:51] Latif Khalifa: yes!

[3:51] Babbage Linden: as I discovered trying to roll my own HMAC in LSL

[3:51] Yuu Nakamichi: squirrel, wasn't that libsl? :p

[3:51] Squirrel Wood: libsl's just a cheap copy ;)

[3:51] Toy Wylie: Babbage, any info on MONO script rez time?

[3:52] Babbage Linden: toy, we have no plans for libraries in LSL

[3:52] Latif Khalifa: passing collections by ref is better than eating large quantities of chocolte :)

[3:52] Ceawlin Steamweaver: ( If you can stand Eclipse, LSL+ allows the use of modules. Almost as good. >_> )

[3:52] Babbage Linden: but we would like to get to libraries in C# in SL

[3:52] Toy Wylie: (Emerald will offer LSL includes soon, anyway)

[3:53] Babbage Linden: toy, it looks like the partial fix I have for the rez bug is going to be in 1.38

[3:53] Babbage Linden: i'm going to be talking to the Mono devs at FOSDEM in Feb to see if I can fix the remaining issues

[3:53] Latif Khalifa: yey :) death to sim freezes!

[3:53] Toy Wylie: Great news, thank you Babbage!

[3:54] Babbage Linden: Mono fixes the issue in trunk, so at the latest it will be fixed when big scripts ships

[3:54] Babbage Linden: (as we need to upgrade Mono for that and will make sure we pull the assembly load fixes in with the new version)

[3:54] Squirrel Wood: Any plans to fix slow prim derezzing?

[3:55] Morgaine Dinova: If you have a minute (shouldn't take longer, just need general answer), I'd appreciate a brief reply about the VM state transfer issue on passing between sims.

[3:55] Babbage Linden: (there is an online HMAC implementation here that you can use to check whether the LSL one is doing the right thing: http://buchananweb.co.uk/security01.aspx)

[3:55] Babbage Linden: (that's also where I got the C# code)

[3:55] Ardy Lay: Squirrel, watch the simulator object count statistic. It appears to me the "slownes" is in client updates, unless you are talking about the long simulator frame when deleting.

[3:56] Babbage Linden: Simon Linden is going to be working on sim performance soon

[3:56] Babbage Linden: so you should talk to him about that

[3:56] Babbage Linden: his plans including multithreading object rez and derez

[3:56] Toy Wylie: Scripting limits: Will we see the "Script Time" in the UI as well?

[3:56] Morgaine Dinova: Including for non-mod scripts we have.

[3:56] Babbage Linden: toy, no not right now

[3:57] Babbage Linden: as script time is not properly rationed by resource pool yet

[3:57] Toy Wylie: Ok.

[3:57] Talarus Luan: Repeat of earlier Q: Is there any movement towards some kind of transactional confirmation on things like llGiveMoney() and llGiveInventory()?

[3:57] Babbage Linden: so it would be confusing to include it now

[3:57] Babbage Linden: (but I will hopefully get to that later...)

[3:57] Ardy Lay: I currently drag all my stuff to an empty region that's for sale to check the numbers.

[3:57] Morgaine Dinova: Ardy: ew

[3:57] Ardy Lay: It's a bit of a pain.

[3:58] Babbage Linden: talurus, Which Linden is responsible for the new L$ API

[3:58] Talarus Luan: Ooo.. OK

[3:58] Babbage Linden: i will talk to him about whether we can surface errors to LSL while I'm in SF

[3:58] Talarus Luan: Which Linden? :P

[3:58] Babbage Linden: and whether we have full transaction support yet

[3:58] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Yes, Which Linden. :p

[3:58] Talarus Luan: (sorry, I just HAD to...)

[3:58] Liandra Ceawlin: His OO are what, Thursday?

[3:58] Babbage Linden: not sure

[3:59] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I think they are, let me check.

[3:59] Morgaine Dinova: Which defined the CHTTP protocol, we spent many OHs discussing that --- that gives you transactional behaviour

[3:59] Liandra Ceawlin: Thursday, 11:00 AM: Which Linden: Certified HTTP, Eventlet, Mulib, Python, HTTP, REST

[3:59] Talarus Luan: Thursday 11AM

[3:59] Babbage Linden: (but if he does office hours I'm sure he'd love you to go and talk to him about it ahead of my SF trip...)

[3:59] Babbage Linden: ;-)

[3:59] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Beat me to it, lol

[3:59] Imaze Rhiano: Thursday, 1100: Which Linden: Certified HTTP, Eventlet, Mulib, Python, HTTP, REST

[3:59] Melchizedek Blauvelt: thurs at 11 Liandra

[3:59] Babbage Linden: ok, time's up

[3:59] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: See you Babbage.

[3:59] Babbage Linden: let's do your question in 2 weeks morgaine

[3:59] Liandra Ceawlin: Thanks babbage!

[4:00] Babbage Linden: thanks for coming everyone

[4:00] Morgaine Dinova: KK Babbage, have a good trip

[4:00] Qie Niangao: Thanks, Babbage.

[4:00] Liandra Ceawlin: Efficient Scripting = grooviness!

[4:00] WADE1 Jya: thanks for the infos :)

[4:00] Imaze Rhiano: bye babbie

[4:00] Becky Pippen: thanks Babbage

[4:00] Talarus Luan: Sure. :) Thanks for having us.

[4:00] Toy Wylie: Thanks, Babbage! Great info!

[4:00] Lares Carter: Thanks Babbage!

[4:00] Briana Dawson: nerd update :p

[4:00] Babbage Linden: and please get the LSL HMAC-SHA1 working for me as a late Christmas present

[4:00] Latif Khalifa: take care Babbage :)

[4:00] Babbage Linden: i'd love to see all the great stuff happening in SL filtering out across the social web...

[4:00] Latif Khalifa: right away :P

[4:00] Gunter Vandyke: bye

[4:01] Babbage Linden: see you in 2 weeks

[4:01] Morgaine Dinova: Heh, we should get HMAC working in exchange for Babbage getting LSL arrays working :P

[4:01] Ardy Lay: Thanks Babbage

[4:01] WADE1 Jya: many thanks & byebye babbage!

[4:01] Babbage Linden: morgaine, you're getting efficient scripts, that's the deal ;-)

[4:02] Morgaine Dinova: Not efficient enough, I want scripts to inherit attributes through hierarchical objects :P
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