User:Darrius Gothly/Commerce Team Office Hours Session3 2009-12-15

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List of Attendees

  • Alexxis DeCuir
  • Ann Otoole
  • Casper Priestman
  • Cherry Blossom
  • Colossus Linden
  • dana Archer
  • Darrius Gothly
  • Dartagan Shepherd
  • Drake1 Nightfire
  • Eris Auxifur
  • Jarnz Dench
  • JuJuBee Klaar
  • Lazlo Delicioso
  • Lyanis Sin
  • MadamG Zagato
  • Meta Linden
  • Pamela Galli
  • Pandorah Ashdene
  • Pink Linden
  • Roxie Dixon
  • Rya Nitely
  • Sanura Sakai
  • Siz Linden
  • Stasia Rau
  • Toysoldier Thor
  • Vryl Valkyrie
  • XLR8RRICK Hudson


[20:04] Colossus Linden: We have been listening and hearing request for features. We had a lot of integration tasks to tackle after the acquistion of Xstreet and we are now getting back to some of those front end features.
[20:04] Colossus Linden: Today, we are going to talk about 3 of them


[20:04] Ann Otoole: wish lists at last lol
[20:05] Colossus Linden: So, jumping into the first topic, homepage redesign. Earlier today I had Grant Linden here to run through the description. He couldn't make it to this session, but I will paste in what he had to say about this project from earlier.
[20:05] Colossus Linden: Please hold all questions until after I have finished the summary description
[20:06] Colossus Linden: We are working on a home page refresh that combines the best of the "marketplaces" page and the current home page. This page will highlight promotions as well as "departments".
[20:06] Colossus Linden: I should add that we are speaking about the Xstreet SL homepage (not the Second Life homepage)
[20:06] Colossus Linden: :)
[20:07] Colossus Linden: "departments" meaning high level item categories on the home page.
[20:07] Colossus Linden: Currently a user has to navigate to the Marketplace to see the list of categories.
[20:08] Colossus Linden: This is a light design refresh and not the end solution to the front door of the Marketplace. categories
[20:08] Colossus Linden: Colossus has reached out via the forums for various "tags" that might be helpful to highlight - like stampunk, tiny, Neko and such.
[20:08] Colossus Linden: And we can also surface some of those popular tags.
[20:09] Colossus Linden: At this time I don't have any visuals to share. When we do I can gather more feedback. When we do, PinkI will post them to Pink Linden's flickr stream.
[20:09] Colossus Linden:
[20:09] Colossus Linden: we will also provide a link in the stream to a discussion thread and vice versa
[20:09] Colossus Linden: I would like to stress that our goal is to be rolling out improvements on an ongoing basis and I don't want anyone to feel that there is a missed opportunity once a design is circulated for review.
[20:10] Colossus Linden: I am also interested in residents providing me with examples of retail destinations they find useful.
[20:10] Colossus Linden: Okay, most of that was direct from Grant from earlier.
[20:10] Pink Linden: fast typing colossus!
[20:10] Pink Linden: ;)
[20:10] Darrius Gothly: And you sounded just like him too Colossus.
[20:10] Colossus Linden: And I'll give everyone a chance to read that and catch up and then I'll open up to questions which we'll answer as best we can.
[20:11] Colossus Linden: Questions?
[20:12] Stasia Rau: I have one please
[20:12] Vryl Valkyrie: yes please turn voice on
[20:12] Rya Nitely: would vehicles, clothes be categories?
[20:12] Vryl Valkyrie: hard for some of us to type
[20:12] Ann Otoole: ?Q?: Tags. Will these be placed in a separate data entry field? To become a superior form of keyword?
[20:12] Stasia Rau: Retail destinations... does that mean store LMs?
[20:12] Ann Otoole: retail dest? like internet shopping experiences?
[20:12] Vryl Valkyrie: hi meta
[20:13] Meta Linden volunteers to transcribe voice questions - welcome Vryl
[20:13] Pamela Galli: Yes Ann and stasia
[20:13] Stasia Rau: so how is it determined which stores are featured? It will end up being the same big stores without giving any smaller stores a chance again?
[20:13] Ann Otoole: why is Pamela answering a question? Is Pamela a Linden now? :P
[20:13] Cherry Blossom Tree: Falling Blossoms ON
[20:13] Colossus Linden: Sorry folks, we promise transcripts of these which we can't do if we use voice. Believe me, I'd rather not have to type so much either :)
[20:13] Pamela Galli: You didn't hear?
[20:14] Ann Otoole: rofl
[20:14] Pamela Galli: ,squeal>
[20:14] Eris Auxifur: real geeks type faster than they speak, anyways
[20:14] Eris Auxifur ducks
[20:14] Darrius Gothly: ... guilty
[20:14] Sanura Sakai: Will 'departments' featured on the front page be cycled regularly, or be left open only to the most 'popular' categories? What will happen with existing listing enhancements to do with front page listings, if the front page won't feature the category the item is listed under?
[20:14] Dartagan Shepherd: not a question, but an answer to your call for retail examples ..., A period when I had to use it daily and it had all the right elements, including going back to look at product details for information after the purchase. Solid home page I think as well
[20:14] Colossus Linden: Retail destinations: Grant is interested to know what other shopping and selling experiences you like, for instance, ebay, etsy, target, etc.
[20:15] Stasia Rau: ohh.. so your not talking about direct links to inworld stoes? I guess I was confused
[20:15] MadamG Zagato: Does the XStreetSL Homepage redesign include re-evaluation of "Today's Popular Items" which are unfailrly made popular for days and weeks? I wouldn't think that something that is Today's Popular Item should be popular for consecutive days not providing other items a chance to make the list. If it's popular today, it should not be popular the next day, and the next etc etc There should be a counter reset somewhere.
[20:15] Colossus Linden: Sanura, The homepage featured listings section will remain on the new combined homepage
[20:15] Ann Otoole: yea well how about you just strike off ebay and amazon right off the bat and focus on actual retailing operations instead of san francisco and seatlle geek born operations
[20:15] Ann Otoole: look at bing shopping for one
[20:16] Pamela Galli: I want my HOmepage Features on any default page
[20:16] Pamela Galli: Popular can be navigated to
[20:16] Ann Otoole: bing got acquired and has a whole lot of non seattle input.
[20:16] Colossus Linden: Some departments are likely to be pretty consistent. because they are general areas that a large portion of shoppers are interested in. I'd like to be able to cycle some, such as holiday focused departments as well.
[20:17] Colossus Linden: Pamela, what do you mean?
[20:17] MadamG Zagato: No Popular shows up as the first thing you see
[20:17] Colossus Linden: Ann, you have some suggestions?
[20:17] Pamela Galli: I mean that Popular should not be a default
[20:17] Rya Nitely: could you give us some moe examples of departments?
[20:17] Colossus Linden: ahh, Bing. Thanks
[20:17] Pamela Galli: Paid ads should be the default
[20:17] Darrius Gothly: I see your point Pamela .. you pay for top billing .. ahead of popular.
[20:17] MadamG Zagato: I agree Pamela
[20:17] Rya Nitely: Would it be vehicles, clothes tec?
[20:18] Pamela Galli: right
[20:18] Rya Nitely: etc
[20:18] Darrius Gothly: I tend to agree.
[20:18] Ann Otoole: heh you can easily find stuff on best buy's web site
[20:18] Drake1 Nightfire: Is there a reason the login dosent stay active anymore?
[20:19] Darrius Gothly: I seem to recall bestbuy using a keyword field based search mechanism.
[20:19] Rya Nitely: it would be a good idea to be able to click on vehicles as a department then do a search for boat or car
[20:19] MadamG Zagato: I like Quick Info popup /layer
[20:19] Sanura Sakai: Yes, but will smaller categories ever get listed, or is it going to be the same main categories all the time, with a little seasonal stuff thrown in? It would be nice if Xstreet could support different categories as well as its big listers. Configurable home-pages for when people log on to show content depending on their own interests in whatever categories could also be very useful, in my opinion... delivering the content that people want to see, as shoppers.
[20:19] Colossus Linden: To clarify, this project is a refresh of the homepage. It is not a completely new site or a reworking of algorithms
[20:19] Stasia Rau: thats a good idea.. saved merchants. it would be very helpful
[20:19] Colossus Linden: We will not be adjusting the popularity algorithm as part of this project.
[20:20] Ann Otoole: yes and it would help some if they could filter me out so maybe a merchant bnlock feature.
[20:20] MadamG Zagato: ok thanks for answering
[20:20] Ann Otoole: *block
[20:20] Pamela Galli: Homepage
[20:20] Pamela Galli: is rhe topic
[20:20] Colossus Linden: Favorite merchants. I like that.
[20:20] Dartagan Shepherd: the issue of unused space was brought up, would this condense more info on the page combining the info you have in mind, less empty space?
[20:21] Rya Nitely: so would there be a category for vehicles or clothes to enter and then do a search?
[20:21] MadamG Zagato: Yes favorite merchants...would be awesome
[20:21] Rya Nitely: to allow a more defined search
[20:21] Stasia Rau: and you could have on the homepage the links to saved favorites, so it does tie in
[20:21] Ann Otoole: I would really hate to see the totally gamed popular items list on the main page. You need to get that off the dashboard too.
[20:21] Alexxis DeCuir: agreed
[20:21] MadamG Zagato agrees with Ann
[20:21] Colossus Linden: Sanura, this project will not go that far, but we'll add those suggestions to our list for future projects.
[20:21] Drake1 Nightfire: i dont think i have ever shopped in the popular catagory...
[20:21] Ann Otoole: put rotating HOME PAGE FEATURED ADS on the home pages
[20:22] Rya Nitely: so that if you enter the vehicle department and do a search for boat you won't get a houseboat opping up or boat shoes
[20:22] Colossus Linden: hahaha. Thanks Ann. I've been wanting to filter you out of my results :p
[20:22] Pink Linden: JuJubee, we agree
[20:22] Pink Linden: 100%
[20:23] Pink Linden: otherwise it's just a website
[20:23] JuJuBee Klaar: True
[20:23] Pamela Galli: I love popular
[20:23] Pamela Galli: we all do
[20:23] Drake1 Nightfire: i dont
[20:23] Toysoldier Thor: speak for yourself pamela
[20:23] Pamela Galli: But I am paying for more visibility
[20:23] MadamG Zagato: But popular needs mre variety...I get tired of seeing the same stuff day after day
[20:23] Stasia Rau: I dont mind popular being an option but its annoying as a manditory thing I have to get through to shop for what I want
[20:23] Pamela Galli: Okay everyone but Toy :-)
[20:23] Rya Nitely: so I can see how having departments on the homepage could improve the search if it was done like in a mall
[20:23] Toysoldier Thor: whatever
[20:24] MadamG Zagato: "Today's Popular Ites" are the same thing every day lol
[20:24] Drake1 Nightfire: what you think is popular i may not
[20:24] Rya Nitely: have a department for shoes, dresses, vehicles jeewlery etc
[20:24] Pamela Galli: Also, popluar is not very good for PR
[20:24] Sanura Sakai: my other question still stands... will smaller categories get any exposure at all on the front page, or will it be most 'popular' categories plus seasonal only ever really be featured? While it doesn't honestly bother me either way (my stuff falls into fairly regular categories), I am curious. How often would categories featured there be cycled? Would they at all?
[20:25] Pink Linden: oops Colossus just got punted
[20:25] Pink Linden: let me come out of IM and catch up
[20:25] Sanura Sakai: uhhh, departments is what I meant :P
[20:25] Drake1 Nightfire: I DIDN'T DO IT!!!!!
[20:25] Stasia Rau: lol
[20:26] Pink Linden: oh he's back already!
[20:26] Rya Nitely: welcome back Collussus
[20:26] Pink Linden: speedy!
[20:26] Pink Linden dives back into IM
[20:26] Colossus Linden: Am I the only one who got logged out?
[20:26] Pink Linden: yes I think so Colossus
[20:26] Darrius Gothly: Yup
[20:26] Stasia Rau: yes
[20:26] Ann Otoole: just you
[20:26] Pink Linden: I was testing my god powers :P
[20:26] Darrius Gothly: LOL
[20:26] Pink Linden: I like god powers. :P
[20:26] Lazlo Delicioso: yes
[20:26] Colossus Linden: Alright, that's a good way to clear my local chat history. I'll have to remember that one for when I see a question I don't like :O
[20:26] Darrius Gothly: LMAO
[20:27] JuJuBee Klaar chuckles
[20:27] Colossus Linden: So, I'll take a few more questions here and then we'll move onto the next topic
[20:27] Pink Linden: scrolling back I see a lot about popular items Colossus
[20:27] Pink Linden: folks are concerned the popular items catgory is beign gamed and when we promote it we favor that
[20:27] Sanura Sakai: not what I said.
[20:28] Ann Otoole: I just think people paying for the ads need to be on all the home pages instead of popular items. after all they PAID for the ads.
[20:28] MadamG Zagato: How are popular items determined?
[20:28] MadamG Zagato: Clicks?
[20:28] Colossus Linden: Hmmm, well, I know that we drastically improved the popularity algorithm back in August
[20:28] Pamela Galli: I am concerned about paying for visibility that I am not getting as much of as I would like
[20:28] Colossus Linden: Are folks afraid it is being gamed or would just rather we focus on advertised items on the main page?
[20:28] MadamG Zagato: Thats a good start Colossus
[20:28] Ann Otoole: lol gamed is all that happens in SL marketing rofl
[20:28] Pamela Galli: I am too clueless to game
[20:29] Pamela Galli: So I just pay
[20:29] Darrius Gothly: Votes for Paid Items on the home page
[20:29] MadamG Zagato: But are people buying it or are they popular through clicks?
[20:29] Ann Otoole: but proving it? different story. so put the PAID ads up instead.
[20:29] Stasia Rau: here
[20:29] Colossus Linden: Well, the paid items (homepage listing enhancements) will be on the new homepage
[20:29] MadamG Zagato: YAYYYY!
[20:29] MadamG Zagato: tytyty Colossus
[20:29] Ann Otoole: put paid ads on the dashboard too
[20:29] XLR8RRICK Hudson: Unique Buys would work
[20:29] Colossus Linden: I'm not sure how we'll continue to expose popular items, but I believe the advertised items will be getting more exposure, not less
[20:30] Pamela Galli: Yes paid ads on teh dashboard
[20:30] Pink Linden: Thorne, that's true for a lot of buyers...because sometimes what the best items are may not be advertised on the HP
[20:30] Pink Linden: present company excepted of course.
[20:30] Colossus Linden: I don't want to remove the great opportunity for folks to happen upon good merchandise that is popular either.
[20:30] MadamG Zagato: From what I ubderstand, folks put httprequests in their products and when ppl rez them, the httprequest hits items on XStreetSL
[20:30] Pamela Galli: A LOT of the popular items are also paid
[20:30] XLR8RRICK Hudson: Like dont count all buys by the same people that is how they will game Buys
[20:30] Ann Otoole: well the popular algorythym works for honest people. pronblem is people can pay others to circle buy items into the top 20. thus it can be gamed. If it can be gamed? what happens. SHould have see what was going on last december.
[20:30] MadamG Zagato: giving them clicks...has this been confirmed or even acknowledged?
[20:31] Colossus Linden: I don't believe the popularity algorithm looks at views. I believe it is a measure of sales (combination of # of sales and price).
[20:31] Colossus Linden: In any case, it is 8:30 and we need to move on to the next topic
[20:31] XLR8RRICK Hudson: Unique Buys count
[20:31] XLR8RRICK Hudson: Next
[20:31] Colossus Linden: If you have more questions or suggestions here, please im me or send a suggestion to Grant Linden.
[20:32] Colossus Linden: Wishlists is our next topic

I'm going to give you all a description of where we are headed. Then we'll open up for questions.

[20:32] Colossus Linden: We've gotten a lot of request to add wishlist functionality over the last year and we're now getting around to it.
[20:32] Colossus Linden: We're working on a project which is split wishlists into a few phases. The ultimate goal is to give our shoppers the ability to add items to a publicly viewable wishlists, to allow them to share that wishlist, and to allow users to search for a friends wishlist and purchase items off of it.
[20:32] Pink Linden: (hello to all newcomers--if you have an off topic question, please feel free to IM me)
[20:32] Colossus Linden: For the first phase, we have created a shop on Facebook as a widget within our Second Life fan page
[20:33] Colossus Linden: This shop will have all active, non-adult items from Xstreet SL (Sorry, we can't place adult items up there) and has some limited wishlist functionality
[20:33] Colossus Linden: We have pushed in this direction because it allows us to get some simple wishlists in place before the holidays
[20:33] Colossus Linden: Here, users will be able to browse items just as they can on Xstreet. But, they can also add those to a wishlist, and will be able to share that wishlist with friends.
[20:33] Colossus Linden: Anything that a shopper purchases off of a wishlist, they will have to mark as purchased
[20:34] Colossus Linden: Also, we'll be enabling a widget which you can add to a web page which will scroll through the items on your wishlist (I saw it earlier today and it was cool).
[20:34] Colossus Linden: In Q1, we will take this a step further with some key wishlist integration features as phase 2 of the project
[20:34] Colossus Linden: We'll allow a user to add an item to their wishlist from the detail page on Xstreet.
[20:35] Colossus Linden: And, we'll tie into the Xstreet purchase process so that when a friend buys an item off of your wishlist, it is automatically removed from your wishlist
[20:35] Cherry Blossom Tree: Falling Blossoms OFF
[20:35] Colossus Linden: That is a quick overview of the initial phases of the wishlist feature. I'll now open up to questions
[20:35] Cherry Blossom Tree: Falling Blossoms ON
[20:35] Eris Auxifur: wait, did i misunderstand earlier.... tell me the wishlists are going to be NON-facebook, at some point?
[20:35] Sanura Sakai: so in other words, you want people to log in on facebook (giving you rl, though admittedly publicly accessible information about their real life, tied then to their sl account)... is a real life facebook name/etc going to be publicly viewable by others using the application?
[20:35] Ann Otoole: It is critical to allow for anonymous wish list buys as an option
[20:35] Eris Auxifur: cause i will not, and i'm sure other won't, touch facebook, ever.
[20:35] Darrius Gothly: Colossus .. if I understand correctly, Facebook will be the "holder" of the user accounts and wishlists from XStreet in Phase 1. What about Phase 2?
[20:36] Alexxis DeCuir: I don't really want to share my RL facebook with SL friends... and find it tedious to create another soley for my avatar
[20:36] MadamG Zagato: So it will be required to have a facebook account?
[20:36] MadamG Zagato: exactly
[20:36] MadamG Zagato: Facebook requires RL names
[20:36] Eris Auxifur: yeah, is wishlist gonna ever go non-facebook? i'm never touching facebook, that thing is a privacy nightmare.
[20:36] XLR8RRICK Hudson: whats facebook
[20:37] Colossus Linden: Yup, phase 2 (q1 sometime) we will add the functionality to Xstreet to be able to add an item to your wishlist right from the listing detail page
[20:37] Darrius Gothly: lol
[20:37] MadamG Zagato: My Facebook account has RL info and my RL family...I won't ever integrate that with SL
[20:37] Casper Priestman: you bought facebook :)
[20:37] Darrius Gothly: But will the DATA be still stored with Facebook .. or will LL own it?
[20:37] Sanura Sakai: I understand that you might want to collect rl information about people (each application has to be granted access to certain information, including gender/age/etc/etc)... that has to be great market research for you, but it isn't something I'm willing to share, and I'm sure a lot of others would be the same.
[20:37] Ann Otoole: I seriously doubt facebook is going to allow Linden Research Inc. to make profit off it's back. Did Facebook acquire Linden Research Inc.?
[20:37] Rya Nitely: I can't see the facebook idea working
[20:37] Eris Auxifur: yeah. i HAVE to have a profile pic visible to all, if i choose to have a picture? wtf.... facebook is evil, and is always in trouble for privacy. please tell me someday facebook will not be any part of wishbooks.
[20:38] Colossus Linden: Darrius, as far as "owning", I'm going to dance around that language as I don't know the terms of the agreement. We are working with an external vendor for wishlists. It is not facebook. This company has a wishlist & shopping application already built on facebook and it was the fastest way to get wishlists to you.
[20:38] Colossus Linden: They also have wishlists on the web and work with some other web marketplaces.
[20:39] Sanura Sakai: a lot of facebook applications profit :P Just look at applications produced by Zynga... Facebook will certainly allow it, but to me, the issue is always going to be the information collection and sharing required to grant access to the application.
[20:39] MadamG Zagato: It's not even an option for SL integration unless Facebook allows avatar names for accounts
[20:39] Eris Auxifur: but will xstret ever have its own wishlists, or will i have to use facebook if i want one? i'm unclear, and i was here for the last office hours....
[20:39] Casper Priestman: Colossus, you mentioned a widget, and you said " you can put it on your web page" are you talking about a piece of code with UUID we could insert into panels of say wordpress, joomla etc?
[20:39] Ann Otoole: Well if LL is going to take out the disclosure aspect of the TOS we need to know. I'll have to go buy more ammo because the death threats guy lives 90 minutes away.
[20:39] MadamG Zagato: So LL cannot build/code a custom wishlist app???
[20:39] Darrius Gothly: Gotcha .. so for those that ARE willing to link Facebook to SL .. wishlists will come up sooner (Phase 1). Those of us that won't go near Facebook .. wait for Phase 2.
[20:39] Drake1 Nightfire: i will not be adding a SL widget to my facebook
[20:39] Jarnz Dench: I'd rather have the delay have get the wishlists stright into Xstreet 1st, not going this way
[20:39] Colossus Linden: Ann & Sanura, I agree that it is critical to be able to have wish lists which are only tied to your SL name.
[20:40] Eris Auxifur: drake1: is that how it is.... or is it 'wishlists can be CHOSEN from xstreet, but displayed only from facebook?
[20:40] Ann Otoole: Is SL owned by facebook now?
[20:40] Colossus Linden: I'm not sure about the details of phase 1. That is a truly minimum viable product that we can get out before the holidays. For phase 2, you shouldn't need to associate it with facebook.
[20:40] Darrius Gothly: (I told you to buy that stock darnit!)
[20:40] MadamG Zagato: IMO, linking to Facebook will only prompt others to report your facebook account for violation of the Facebook TOS if it's created with your avtar name and not your real name
[20:40] Eris Auxifur: okay, as long as wishlists will be visible from xstreet WITHOUT facebook, i am still in ;)
[20:41] XLR8RRICK Hudson: No Spam please Vrvl
[20:41] Ann Otoole: Some avatar names happen to be indistinguishable from real names.
[20:41] Rya Nitely: if we aren't keen on the idea as merchants there is no way custmoers will use their facebook
[20:41] Toysoldier Thor: so again... of all the critical badly demanded features merchants have been begging for.... how did Wishlists become a LL priority??
[20:41] Colossus Linden: Darrius, a 3rd company will manage the wishlists for us. It is not facebook. They do have an application on facebook and I'm not up to date on the terms of agreement for developing facebook applications
[20:41] Toysoldier Thor: you dont have to answer me again
[20:42] dana Archer: hi sorry i am late
[20:42] Colossus Linden: Lydi, phase 2 should pretty much get us there I think.
[20:42] Sanura Sakai: and what is the plan for phase 2? So far, only phase 1 has really been discussed all that much.
[20:42] Ann Otoole: And how will LL assure us this third party will not violate the TOS and disclose identities oopsie?
[20:42] MadamG Zagato: So in short, LL is outsourcing the wishlist, it's not going to be scripted into XStreetSL?
[20:43] Colossus Linden: For phase 1, it may require a facebook account. I believe that you could create a wishlist via the wishlist widget they provide without creating a facebook account. I'll need to check on that.
[20:43] Darrius Gothly: So Phase 1 is where you will shake out the "bugs" in the implementation. And Phase 2 is where it will become really useful.
[20:43] Pink Linden: Ann, because our contract states that they have to abide by our privacy policies. we can't sign an agreemnt otherwise.
[20:43] Eris Auxifur: i already give you guys my cc, i don't want faceboo having it.
[20:43] Ann Otoole: ty Pink
[20:43] Pink Linden: np Ann.
[20:43] Vryl Valkyrie: I have to go.. merry christmas and happy hanukka everyone
[20:43] Dartagan Shepherd: it sounds solid, personally I don't mind the phasebook phase, quick way to get it out there, so thanks for that. I don't see a need for anonymity of an SL name though on either side
[20:43] Alexxis DeCuir: Maybe I missed it.. but was it ever said (In yes or no terms) that a wishlist will be made available without facebook later on?
[20:43] Darrius Gothly: Be well Vryl
[20:43] MadamG Zagato waves at Vryl
[20:43] Rya Nitely: good bye Vryl
[20:43] dana Archer: facebook???
[20:43] Dartagan Shepherd: facebook phase, rather, ugg
[20:43] Siz Linden: by Vryl
[20:43] Vryl Valkyrie: great work Xstreet Team.. I love it and support it all
[20:43] Eris Auxifur: alexxis i am still wondering too, heh
[20:43] Drake1 Nightfire: you forgot kwanza and yule
[20:43] Vryl Valkyrie: ciao
[20:44] XLR8RRICK Hudson: Muted Vryl
[20:44] Toysoldier Thor: lol.... shakes head
[20:44] dana Archer: are we going to have to at some point have a facebook page?
[20:45] Sanura Sakai: There's less than 10 days before Christmas... at least in this part of the world... I'm surprised the first phase is rolling out for anything other than market research.
[20:45] Drake1 Nightfire: i thijnk it was more the gift spam
[20:45] Colossus Linden: I believe that wishlists can be displayed either on facebook or via a wishlist website. I'm not sure if we'll have that website for phase 1, but I believe so.
[20:45] Roxie Dixon: well like you said as long as we can use a facebook acct using avatar names and not our rl names it should be ok
[20:45] Sanura Sakai: and when is the first phase rolling out then?
[20:45] Drake1 Nightfire: What about SL profile page?
[20:46] Alexxis DeCuir: So nothing is going to actually be incorporated into the xstreetsl website itself?
[20:46] MadamG Zagato: have they changed the policies at Facebook regarding avatar names?
[20:46] dana Archer: I had thought Facebook required your real life name
[20:46] MadamG Zagato: It does dana
[20:46] Colossus Linden: Phase 2 will be a deeper integration with Xstreet
[20:47] Darrius Gothly: Perhaps they have created a new class of account holder .. something for businesses that don't use a person's name?
[20:47] dana Archer: so we now have to use another program and provide our rl names?
[20:47] Drake1 Nightfire: it would be cool if you could add it to
[20:47] Roxie Dixon: well better to take your time and set it up right the first time instead of rushing it through for chistmas
[20:47] Pink Linden: not if you don't want to dana
[20:47] Eris Auxifur: well, i'm totally not interested in, and will not touch antything requiring me to use facebook.
[20:47] Darrius Gothly: Your avatar name is a form of business name.
[20:47] Eris Auxifur: so i really hope that yes there's a phase when it's just xstreet.
[20:47] dana Archer: sorry im late but can someone catch me up please
[20:47] JuJuBee Klaar: Thats a good idea Drake1
[20:47] Alexxis DeCuir: Blah.. something else to log into besides the viewer, xstreetsl and the blogs
[20:47] Casper Priestman: with all the bloggers out there, would be nice to insert the wishlist into their pages and when clicked would go back to Xstreet
[20:47] Alexxis DeCuir: oh, and the SL website itself
[20:47] Eris Auxifur: c'mon, give me enough beers and a week or two, and even *I* could program wishlists into facebook, and i'm no db expert
[20:47] Toysoldier Thor: yes eris... but the lindens feel that facebook integration is a priority xstreet feature
[20:47] Colossus Linden: Casper, the widget may allow what you're looking for.
[20:48] Pamela Galli: Too many logins!
[20:48] Casper Priestman: :)
[20:48] Eris Auxifur: well, i understand they want to get the facebook crowd. that's actually just good advertising.
[20:48] Alexxis DeCuir: Exactly! Too many logins!
[20:48] Pamela Galli: Driving me crazy now
[20:48] Toysoldier Thor: aparently more important than overhauling search or developing listings with options
[20:48] Jarnz Dench: and the logins don't stay on for 5+ minutes like the blogs
[20:48] Toysoldier Thor: or fixing single login
[20:48] Eris Auxifur: i believe the search overhaul os tomorow, toysoldier. but you're quite confrontational, aren't you ;)
[20:48] Ann Otoole: I heard the copybot guy advertises on facebook. must be a lot of interest in stealing coming from facebook. Rename SL katrina please.
[20:49] MadamG Zagato: So LL is going to start marketing on Facebook? To my family? :/
[20:49] Drake1 Nightfire: he does advertise on zYouube
[20:49] Colossus Linden: Eloh, we could not do the full integration with Xstreet SL before the holidays. The company we're working with already had the facebook application for other companies so we could tie into it quickly.
[20:49] Drake1 Nightfire: Youtube
[20:49] Eris Auxifur: well yeah why else do it ;)
[20:49] Toysoldier Thor: yes i guess i am when they dont answer questions
[20:49] Roxie Dixon: what is the rush
[20:49] Dartagan Shepherd: facebook is just to get it out there quickly, it served a purpose, not a big deal outside of privacy concerns
[20:50] Eris Auxifur: see, capitalizing on xmas rush is smart, so is takingsome facebook traffic... but i won't use it
[20:50] dana Archer: I had thought there were more pressing priorities than linking with facebook ;-(
[20:50] MadamG Zagato: Ultiatley what you will have is new SL signups linked to Facebook accounts....with RL names exposed = privacy nightmare.
[20:50] Rya Nitely: never get the message out to customers before christmas
[20:50] Colossus Linden: We are not sharing any more data than necessary with the company we're using. And as users, you'll be choosing wheither or not to create a wishlist, how to use it and what to add to it. We'll make sure to inform you of the details you need to make the best decision for yourself.
[20:50] MadamG Zagato: Fair enough
[20:50] Colossus Linden: I know that I haven't gotten to all the questions, but it is 8:50 and we have 1 more topic
[20:51] Colossus Linden: So, we need to move on to topic # 3
[20:51] Eris Auxifur: yeah, if facebookk lets an unknown like ME program apps for them, i'm sorry, i can't trust them ;) good luck though, i'm all for getting newbies in here!
[20:51] Colossus Linden: We just announced our that there will be a small release on 12/16/2009 and it will include a search improvement. I'll quickly describe this and then open up for questions.
[20:51] Colossus Linden: We have gotten a lot of user requests for search improvements and this is just a start
[20:52] Colossus Linden: Users have informed us that the results are not always relevant especially when searching on multiple keywords
[20:52] Colossus Linden: The old search algorithm returned all results that included even one of the keywords
[20:52] Ann Otoole: My search results are relevant because I know how to use a search lol
[20:52] Colossus Linden: Our new algorithm will require a listing to match over half of the keywords entered
[20:52] Eris Auxifur: i like this change too :)
[20:52] Colossus Linden: This will reduce the number of returned results and should make them much more relevant when searching using multiple keywords
[20:52] Eris Auxifur: yeah, i tried explainging +dress +red +female to people, they just don't get it
[20:52] Pink Linden drafts Ann to write searching guidelines
[20:52] Drake1 Nightfire: umm... is there a keyword box now?
[20:53] Colossus Linden: And now, I will open up to questions regarding this search improvement
[20:53] Ann Otoole: in fact every person that complained that I engegd found out how to get exactly what they want. the issue is the japanese junk spammer.
[20:53] Drake1 Nightfire: or does the search still search the whole listing
[20:53] Colossus Linden: Drake, there is a box to "search" from and I consider any words entered to be the keywords
[20:53] Pamela Galli: Yes a primer on search would help
[20:53] Colossus Linden: We currently search the title and description of an item for those
[20:53] Drake1 Nightfire: i meant a box for keywords when you list an item
[20:54] Ann Otoole: Will LL permaban notorius keyword spammers like now?
[20:54] Colossus Linden: We do not have a "keywords" input section for a listing, but that was requested in the last section
[20:54] JuJuBee Klaar: Will this new feature encourage just tons of words in your descriptions with little REAL meaning or concrete connection to the actual business or place?
[20:54] MadamG Zagato: Add tags to listings like Wordpress
[20:54] Eris Auxifur: i would pay... 4 dollars... instantly, real money, to ll, if they make it so only premium members can sell stuff
[20:54] Pamela Galli: wow 4!
[20:54] Colossus Linden: And that is a problem which we're working to clean up Lydi
[20:54] Pamela Galli: lol
[20:54] Sanura Sakai: Perhaps something like a boolean search with multiple fields... 'and' 'or' 'not' etc etc, would actually get search working a bit more surely....
[20:54] Eris Auxifur: HEY PAYDAY IS TOMORROW
[20:54] Eris Auxifur: lol
[20:55] Toysoldier Thor: not that colossus is listening... but all this has been described well before the last session... check your own JIRA for xstreet search
[20:55] Pamela Galli: :-)
[20:55] Drake1 Nightfire: wow... thanks for the support
[20:55] Toysoldier Thor: it has been detailed months ago
[20:55] Colossus Linden: JuuBee, we put a new keyword spamming policy in place in August for a reason.
[20:55] MadamG Zagato: Is it possible for the date the listing was added to be shown?
[20:55] Sanura Sakai: yet it is not policed.
[20:55] Ann Otoole: oh noes i attended the OH i am tainted as an xstreet 1337 now :((
[20:55] Colossus Linden: We are working on adding enforcement focus here as I am aware we have not yet cleaned up the problem.
[20:55] Alexxis DeCuir: And keyword spamming still goes on.. just like Popular Items gaming still goes on
[20:55] JuJuBee Klaar: true
[20:56] dana Archer: and how come there are still key word spammers, who have been reported but are still there?
[20:56] MadamG Zagato: Is it possible for the date the listing was added to be shown "and searched"?
[20:56] Drake1 Nightfire: adding a keyword box would help fix things greatly
[20:56] Pink Linden: remember this is a small step to a larger one
[20:56] Ann Otoole: tag box would be good. then teach people to search on tags
[20:56] dana Archer: I have searched my own items from newest to oldest and the results are not accurate lol
[20:57] dana Archer: I have searched my own items from most popular to least and again the results are not what you would expect
[20:57] JuJuBee Klaar: Interesting idea Lydi
[20:57] Ann Otoole: anyway the new improvement will help but it remains important that a Torley Tutorial on searching be easily accessible.
[20:58] Pamela Galli: So if I have two search terms, both will be included in results now?
[20:58] Pink Linden: yep ann, as soon as he's back from vacation
[20:58] Pink Linden: I have him collared. he needed to do the IP replacement sound first. :P
[20:58] Drake1 Nightfire: when someone lists al of their items in a listing, one has to wonder if they will ever be enforced
[20:58] Ann Otoole: lolol
[20:58] Colossus Linden: Dana, it would be interesting to hear your experience regarding searching your own items offline.
[20:58] Colossus Linden: Thanks
[20:59] dana Archer: kk Colossus
[20:59] Pamela Galli: So if I have two search terms, both will be included in results now?
[20:59] Colossus Linden: We can definitely still teach people to better use search. We are working to make the default search more of what a general user expects
[20:59] Colossus Linden: Yes Pamela
[20:59] Ann Otoole: I was hoping it would be Torley's voice saying "Friendly Greetings! This content was an infringement! Have a great day!"
[20:59] Pamela Galli: ty
[20:59] Pink Linden: ann, oh I tried for that I did
[20:59] Pink Linden: but those lawyers....
[20:59] Darrius Gothly: LOL
[20:59] Dartagan Shepherd: I can't remember where but I saw a javascript search interface that made it easy to build queries, dumbed down the inclusive/exclusive bits, that might be useful
[21:00] Drake1 Nightfire: so if i search for "red sword" i will get red things and swords?
[21:00] Sanura Sakai: boolean search (and/or/not/etc/etc), with the option to select key dates like 'made after, made before' or within price range, etc etc... if people aren't using the search correctly now, I think that perhaps the interface may have a little something to do with that... searching for periodicals with boolean search terms is easy as because the interface has multiple fields with the boolean terms between each, so that even the most unfamiliar person can navigate it and get relevant matching results.
[21:00] Pink Linden: dartagan, if you find it can you send it over?
[21:00] MadamG Zagato: I guess that's a no
[21:00] Dartagan Shepherd: sure, Pink
[21:00] Ann Otoole: Wait Torley did an xstreet search tutorial already right?
[21:00] Pamela Galli: no Drake
[21:00] Eris Auxifur: colossus... just get someone to expain the + and - operators, will help people TONNES with search, for lesson one
[21:00] Colossus Linden: Drake, previously, a search for <red swords> would return all items with the workd "red" and all items with the word "sword"
[21:00] Pamela Galli: you will get red swords
[21:00] Eris Auxifur: oh, did torley cover that?
[21:00] dana Archer: i think it would be useful to know the date an item is first listed
[21:00] Sanura Sakai: uhhhh, periodicals as in 'on another site with a different search'
[21:00] Pink Linden: a video ann, but thast's not easy to find or see while searching
[21:01] Colossus Linden: with the new search algorithm, it should only return items with both the words "red" and "sword" in them
[21:01] Drake1 Nightfire: @ Pamela... i will believe that when it works
[21:01] MadamG Zagato: So when is the rollout?
[21:01] Pandorah Ashdene: Colossus, didnt you say 50%, half of them?
[21:01] Siz Linden: you will be able to test drive the search improvement tomorrow
[21:01] Colossus Linden: Dana, that's a necessary filter. It sounds like a number of the advanced search features have been reported as not working perfectly. We'll have to look into that.
[21:01] Drake1 Nightfire: i hope they dont sell red shoes and swords
[21:01] MadamG Zagato: cool
[21:01] Lyanis Sin: I agree with boolean search.. at least it can help people that know how to use booleans get better results when the search algorithm otherwise fails to produce the expected results
[21:02] Ann Otoole: Some words are just bad for searches. Hey Meta maybe you could do a rollup on word frequency and post it as "What words not to search by"
[21:02] Pamela Galli: said more than half
[21:02] Colossus Linden: Pandorah, I said more than half
[21:02] Ann Otoole: like tree
[21:02] Colossus Linden: So, we are reaching the end of our time
[21:02] Sanura Sakai: though I realize that would not be in this roll-out.
[21:02] Colossus Linden: I will mention that our team is hard at work on a number of other projects and when we have information we can provide or are ready for feedback on those, we'll present them to the community as well
[21:03] Pink Linden: Thank you all for taking the time to come and talk with us
[21:03] Darrius Gothly: Thank you Lindens for putting on this 3rd session of the day. Been a long one, eh?
[21:03] Colossus Linden: Thanks everyone for coming
[21:03] JuJuBee Klaar: Thank you for listening and assisting
[21:03] Colossus Linden: You're welcome Darrius
[21:03] Pamela Galli: ty!
[21:03] Siz Linden: thanks everyone
[21:04] Colossus Linden: & everyone else
[21:04] Lazlo Delicioso: thank you all
[21:04] Lazlo Delicioso: learned a lot
[21:04] Dartagan Shepherd: great meeting, thank you
[21:04] dana Archer: thanks for your time
[21:04] Siz Linden: happy searching tomorrow
[21:04] Darrius Gothly: *nods* Same here Lazlo
[21:04] Pink Linden: good night all! remember to visit winterfest and check out the kiva wreaths
[21:04] Colossus Linden: And thank you Pink & siz & Meta
[21:04] Pink Linden: it's all for a good cause
[21:04] Colossus Linden: Good Night all

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