User:Enkidu Linden/Office Hours/2010-09-16

From Second Life Wiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search

List of Attendees

Transcript

[11:01] Youri Ashton: where?
[11:01] Identity Euler: many*
[11:01] Youri Ashton: hey enk
[11:01] Youri Ashton: im back ^_^
[11:02] Enkidu Linden: hello there!
[11:02] Youri Ashton: couldnt get on SL without ATI driver problems, so had to wait for my new laptop
[11:03] Enkidu Linden: oh that sucks!
[11:03] Youri Ashton: yu[
[11:03] Youri Ashton: yup
[11:03] Youri Ashton: couldnt work on the temple i showed you either
[11:04] Enkidu Linden: i found a bunch of papers on greco-roman architecture you'd probably like
[11:04] Enkidu Linden: but they are, literally, paper
[11:04] Youri Ashton: lol, could scan them for me, then i can try to create something here in sl for ya
[11:05] Enkidu Linden: hopefully i can find them online instead
[11:05] Enkidu Linden: scanning is not my favorite
[11:05] Youri Ashton: also good :p
[11:05] Youri Ashton: i dont have a scanner myself
[11:06] Youri Ashton: no where around a plain scanner without the extra junk attached
[11:06] Enkidu Linden: haha
[11:06] Enkidu Linden: i could scan it, print a copy, and fax it to you
[11:06] Enkidu Linden: one button!
[11:06] Youri Ashton: dont have a fax machine either :p
[11:07] Youri Ashton: just for my normal phone installed as well yesterday
[11:07] Youri Ashton: first normal phone i ever had
[11:07] Youri Ashton: (i hate phones)
[11:08] Youri Ashton: so, what did i miss past month?
[11:08] Youri Ashton: hi savino
[11:08] Enkidu Linden: not too much!
[11:09] Enkidu Linden: i've been super busy with my current project
[11:09] Youri Ashton: whats that? :)
[11:09] Enkidu Linden: can't discuss yet
[11:09] Enkidu Linden: but soon!
[11:09] Youri Ashton: lol, ok
[11:09] Savino Dagostino: Hi Enkidu
[11:09] Youri Ashton: not gonne try to drag it out of you either :p
[11:09] Enkidu Linden: hi savino
[11:10] Enkidu Linden: hopefully we'll stop being so secretive
[11:10] Youri Ashton: lol, yeah. kinda annoying if you ask me.
[11:11] Youri Ashton: if LL wants residents to help out and think along, it really has to open up
[11:11] Enkidu Linden: yes, my thoughts exactly
[11:11] Youri Ashton: progress is being halted thanks to this secretive ideas
[11:11] Enkidu Linden: on that subject, we did start opening up the viewer
[11:12] Youri Ashton: like how? what specific things?
[11:12] Youri Ashton: hey eddi
[11:12] Eddi Decosta: heya ㋡
[11:12] Enkidu Linden: welcome!
[11:12] Youri Ashton: new avi i see :p
[11:12] Eddi Decosta: hi Enki, how are you? ㋡
[11:12] Enkidu Linden: i am doing good
[11:12] Eddi Decosta: Youri, yep ㋡
[11:12] Savino Dagostino: HI eddi.
[11:13] Eddi Decosta: hi Savino ㋡
[11:13] Youri Ashton: cant see everything, since im on my laptop, darned thing cant take much :(
[11:13] Youri Ashton: plus wireless...
[11:13] Enkidu Linden: um, that's a good question, youri
[11:13] Youri Ashton: question?
[11:13] Enkidu Linden: i'm not a viewer dev though
[11:14] Enkidu Linden: about specific ways the viewer is more open
[11:14] Youri Ashton: :)
[11:14] Eddi Decosta: lol Enki, not my part bu i love to play with the xml thing :p
[11:14] Eddi Decosta: but*
[11:15] Enkidu Linden: hopefully there's a blog post somewhere about the viewer stuff
[11:15] Savino Dagostino: enkidu, who is the best Linden to talk to about viewers, and compilation thereof?
[11:15] Enkidu Linden: let me see if i can find one
[11:15] Youri Ashton: think it might be good that i had a talk with Philip about it, he may get the point it i gave it, could at least try :p
[11:15] Youri Ashton: wasnt that merov?
[11:15] Enkidu Linden: indeed!
[11:15] Enkidu Linden: merov's a great person to ask
[11:15] Youri Ashton: wasnt merov mostly in the viewer part?
[11:15] Savino Dagostino: Great. What about Andrews?
[11:16] Youri Ashton: he is with snowglobe at least
[11:16] Youri Ashton: andrew is for server
[11:16] Eddi Decosta: Enki, true i have asked him for an integration of dysplay names , in the 1.23 ㋡
[11:16] Eddi Decosta: display*
[11:16] Savino Dagostino: Ahhh, well, that leaves Andrew out then <chuckles>
[11:16] Enkidu Linden: i don't think that will happen
[11:16] Eddi Decosta: i do the part of communicate tab_container :p
[11:16] Enkidu Linden: i believe we are only doing critical bug fixes in 1.23 now
[11:17] Youri Ashton: ask merov, he may be able to direct you to the best answer about the viewers
[11:17] Eddi Decosta: i get some headhache to ;p
[11:17] Youri Ashton: so... 1.24 will come then?
[11:17] Youri Ashton: or 1.23.6?
[11:17] Savino Dagostino: I'm looking at x64 bit versions of the viewers...merov is the one to talk to about?
[11:17] Youri Ashton: 64bit is not good supported yet
[11:18] Eddi Decosta: if you see i have some bugs ;p
[11:18] Youri Ashton: none of the official viewers has a proper support for it at this time
[11:18] Savino DagostinoSavino Dagostino nods Yep, thats one of my questions. There are a lot of SL residents that need it.
[11:18] Youri Ashton: however, i understood merov was poking at that issue
[11:18] Enkidu Linden: no, we're committed to 2.x moving forward
[11:18] Savino Dagostino: I'm actually running Phoenix x64 now, with my own compile/build.
[11:19] Youri Ashton: why update 1.23.5 then?
[11:19] Youri Ashton: a update would suggest a new version will be released for that
[11:19] Enkidu Linden: hmm
[11:19] Youri Ashton: lol
[11:19] Youri Ashton: got ya dont i :p
[11:20] Eddi Decosta: hmmm, honestly y rhin the 1.23 could be killed to give the place at 1.4 or 1,5 snowglobe ;p
[11:20] Eddi Decosta: think*
[11:20] Eddi Decosta: no?
[11:20] Enkidu Linden: well, i'm not a source of truth on viewer issues, but my understanding is we're not planning work around 1.x anymore, just 2.x
[11:20] Youri Ashton: snowglobe is a seperate project ;)
[11:20] Enkidu Linden: snowglobe is the opensource viewer, which i think also has a 1.x and 2.x version
[11:20] Youri Ashton: [11:16] Enkidu Linden: i believe we are only doing critical bug fixes in 1.23 now
[11:21] Enkidu Linden: yeah, i think that's the case
[11:21] Eddi Decosta: Enki, yeah just on 2.x but its not my tea yet , cause that side bar, i see some interesting thing on snowstrom viewer, but its not my dreams yet :p
[11:21] Savino Dagostino: Yep, snowglobe has those 2 forks. And Phoenix is based on snowglobe source.
[11:21] Youri Ashton: a critical bug fix, but no new 1.23.... wouldnt that be a dumb thing to do then? waste of time if you ask me :p
[11:22] Enkidu Linden: keep an eye on snowstorm
[11:22] Eddi Decosta: Savini, the third party viewer have no choice to take the pase on snowglobe source ㋡
[11:22] Enkidu Linden: oh i see what you mean
[11:22] Youri Ashton: id say fix the bug, and release a new 1.23
[11:22] Enkidu Linden: yes, there would be a new point release of 1.23 if we had to patch something critical
[11:22] Savino Dagostino: snowstorm?
[11:22] Youri Ashton: thats why i said, new version of 1.23? :p[
[11:22] Youri Ashton: savino: snowglobe
[11:22] Savino Dagostino: Eddi, very true.
[11:23] Savino Dagostino: I'm running Phoenix/Snowglobe compiled to Linux x64 now. But voice doesnt work, and would love to have KDU support for better texture support.
[11:24] Youri Ashton: voice is only in-direct part of the viewer
[11:24] Savino Dagostino: I think only LL can provide vivox and kdu in x64 format.
[11:24] Youri Ashton: its a external server
[11:25] Savino Dagostino: True, but it uses local client/lib stuff to voip to the servers
[11:25] Eddi Decosta: i runs imprudence for my part.. cause the phoenix have some trouble with the silent close, and i dont trust that ...
[11:25] Eddi Decosta: when i talk i in meeting i love to stay online and dont lost the focus cause a stupid crash :p
[11:26] Savino DagostinoSavino Dagostino nods I havent seen that issue yet in Phoenix. I know that when the Phoenix window looses focus, it slows downa nd gives up CPU cycles
[11:26] Youri Ashton: atleast emerald got banned
[11:27] Youri Ashton: its nice to see people express their ideas in their viewers, but not if it causes grief to others
[11:27] Savino DagostinoSavino Dagostino nods Which is good and bad. Some the devs really did da bad things, but overall it was a good viewer.
[11:28] Youri Ashton: it wasnt actually, it was a mess. all kinds of things mixed into a viewer doesnt make it a 'good' viewer
[11:29] Savino Dagostino: It was good from the perspective that it was highly popular, pretty stable and had features that most SL residents wanted and liked.
[11:29] Youri Ashton: i dont mind the nice features it had
[11:29] Savino Dagostino: Under the covers it was a code-mess, but SL residents dont care about that.
[11:30] Youri Ashton: i was rather reffering to the extra added junk that never should have been added
[11:30] Savino Dagostino: Anyway, I dont mean to distract from the intent of your office hours, enkidu.
[11:30] Youri Ashton: the building window for example was holding new prim blocks
[11:30] Youri Ashton: prim blocks that were rather useless
[11:30] Savino Dagostino: I was just looking to see who to talk to about viewers...looks like merov is the guy.
[11:31] Youri Ashton: yeah, i think he is the best to talk to
[11:31] Savino Dagostino: And I'm assuming he holds office hours..??
[11:31] Youri Ashton: either he can give a answer, or he can give a name of the correct linden
[11:31] Youri Ashton: hmm,.... monday's and thursdays i think
[11:32] Youri Ashton: no script zone, so cant look it up for you
[11:32] Enkidu Linden: ..and he's a nice guy!
[11:32] Youri Ashton: lol, yup
[11:32] Youri Ashton: really should try to get him into a discussion, really can heat up :p
[11:32] Savino Dagostino: Great! Thanks...I apprecaite the info!
[11:33] Enkidu Linden: anything webby you guys want to discuss today?
[11:34] Youri Ashton: not sure actually :p
[11:34] Youri Ashton: had a topic?
[11:34] Enkidu Linden: nothing specific this week
[11:34] Youri Ashton: something not specific then? :p
[11:36] Youri Ashton: hi lyv
[11:36] Lyv Larix: hi
[11:36] Enkidu Linden: hello there
[11:36] Youri Ashton: could talk about the temple, you still need your own office here ;)
[11:37] Enkidu Linden: there was a recent blog post about integrating pagespeed results into webpagetest.org
[11:37] Enkidu Linden: that's pretty cool
[11:39] Youri Ashton: website pages must be pretty quick to load
[11:39] Youri Ashton: people dont like things that load very slow
[11:39] Enkidu Linden: that's so true
[11:40] Enkidu Linden: i'm running webpagetest.org on secondlife.com now
[11:40] Enkidu Linden: it's going to be great
[11:40] Youri Ashton: i been telling that for over a year, but no one really was listening to me at the lab
[11:40] Youri Ashton: just because i am 'just a resident'
[11:40] Enkidu Linden: there's a web optimization movement going on within the lab
[11:40] Youri Ashton: i proven more then once that i do know what im talking about :p
[11:41] Enkidu Linden: no, no, we hear you on that point
[11:41] Youri Ashton: i didnt say you wernt enk :p
[11:41] Youri Ashton: your one of the few that actually do listen
[11:41] Enkidu Linden: thanks!
[11:41] Youri Ashton: :)
[11:42] Enkidu Linden: any particular pages you think are too slow?
[11:42] Youri Ashton: hi loane
[11:42] Youri Ashton: havnt been testing myself
[11:42] Youri Ashton: can take a look next week if you like
[11:42] Youri Ashton: wb lyv
[11:43] Enkidu Linden: we have about 15 minutes left, so we could spend it picking on a page
[11:43] Youri Ashton: ok, lemme get the link up
[11:43] Loane Rhosar: Hi all
[11:43] Enkidu Linden: i see that our homepage has gotten slower since i looked at it last
[11:44] Enkidu Linden: hi loane
[11:44] Eddi Decosta: Enki, do you think its possible to do one case for login on the webpage like jira or secondlife.com?
[11:44] Youri Ashton: good one eddi
[11:44] Eddi Decosta: cause i dont understend the logic on that the viewer 2.x have one case for the entire username and i dont know why the website have 2 case for my username .. :p
[11:45] Youri Ashton: for that matter, why not a single login for the official website, jira and sl wiki....
[11:45] Enkidu Linden: actually......
[11:45] Youri Ashton: can solve the stress in that department
[11:45] Enkidu Linden: we are moving toward single sign on with our openid hosts
[11:45] Eddi Decosta: you dont have a date ??
[11:46] Enkidu Linden: well, a lot of it is already up and running
[11:46] Enkidu Linden: for web, that is
[11:46] Eddi Decosta: cause i dont know if i need to use eddi.decosta on the future for mylogin ㋡
[11:46] Youri Ashton: well, at least there is a start :p
[11:46] Enkidu Linden: oh, great question
[11:46] Youri Ashton: good to see something asked for is finally added :p
[11:47] Youri Ashton: oh! something else...
[11:47] Enkidu Linden: well, basically if you see a login form of any sort, if it only has one field for username, you can put eddi.decosta OR Eddi Decosta
[11:47] Enkidu Linden: if it has two, you definitely need to enter first and last name separate
[11:47] Youri Ashton: on the billing pages you can see only a few days back, why not allow everyone to download it in pdf format per month?
[11:48] Eddi Decosta: ok, thanks enki ㋡
[11:48] Youri Ashton: for all financial traffic
[11:48] Enkidu Linden: one more thing: you can't use the display name to login
[11:48] Youri Ashton: its rather annoying you can not see what is going on if you get on holiday for example
[11:48] Eddi Decosta: oh about display name, if i see an other resident with Eddi Decosta, i have the right to resolve it in my discrestion? lol
[11:48] Enkidu Linden: haha like violently??
[11:49] Eddi Decosta: Enki, yeah lol
[11:49] Eddi Decosta: :p
[11:49] Eddi Decosta: like with sarcasme ;p
[11:49] Enkidu Linden: i think support will be/is prepared to deal with abuse reports involving display names
[11:50] Enkidu Linden: the display names team put a huge amount of time into thinking of all the ways people might be naughty with it
[11:50] Eddi Decosta: i hope so , cause i dont want to be banned of agni for nothing cause an other griefers with my name in display :p
[11:50] Youri Ashton: oh nice, the griefer using almost the same name as me is removed from search :p
[11:50] Youri Ashton: its about time :p
[11:50] Savino Dagostino: enkidu, do you workwith the in-world transactions (financial) on the SL website?
[11:50] Eddi Decosta: Youri go out of my head lol ;p
[11:50] Enkidu Linden: i have in the past, savino
[11:50] Youri Ashton: lol eddi
[11:51] Enkidu Linden: transaction history & download
[11:51] Savino Dagostino: Any plans to make it easier to programmatically download transactions?
[11:51] Youri Ashton: transaction history needs to be changed as i said
[11:51] Youri Ashton: its pretty good loading time, no problem there
[11:51] Enkidu Linden: we did quite a few things to make it easier
[11:51] Youri Ashton: but the problem is more in not being able to see more then a few days back
[11:52] Enkidu Linden: but it's still not a formal API
[11:52] Youri Ashton: i like to see my entire SL life so to say
[11:52] Enkidu Linden: i would love to see it become a true restful web service
[11:52] Youri Ashton: its a way to keep idiots away as well
[11:52] Savino DagostinoSavino Dagostino nods Would be nice to have a good, simple SOA layer sitting on top of it.
[11:52] Enkidu Linden: youri, if you mean transaction history, it should be able to go back 30 days
[11:52] Youri Ashton: there are scams occasionally abusing the current state
[11:52] Savino Dagostino: Ditto, Enkidu.
[11:53] Youri Ashton: it refuses for all my avi's enk
[11:53] Youri Ashton: needs to be very easy to use, not hidden :p
[11:53] Savino Dagostino: I developed a sales/commission system for a business in SL, and getting the transactions consistenly, if challenging.
[11:53] Savino Dagostino: is*
[11:53] Enkidu Linden: i bet..
[11:54] Youri Ashton: hmm... just tried a login on the website
[11:54] Savino Dagostino: Is there a LL website/blog that goes into detail how best to use the exisitng technilogy to get the transaction.
[11:54] Youri Ashton: was pretty slow
[11:54] Enkidu Linden: youri: confirm for me you mean this page? https://secure-web44.secondlife.com/my/account/transactions.php?lang=en-US
[11:54] Youri Ashton: loggin in should not take more then 2-3 seconds
[11:55] Youri Ashton: new page for me o_0
[11:55] Enkidu Linden: if you ask me, logging in shound't take more than a few hundred milliseconds
[11:55] Youri Ashton: never seen this page before for some reason
[11:55] Enkidu Linden: does that page have what you want?
[11:55] Enkidu Linden: savino: Which blogged about it about a year ago
[11:55] Youri Ashton: true, but i was adding in the actual things it should be loading as well. 3 seconds max. it took me 10
[11:56] Enkidu Linden: but i can give you a few tips
[11:56] Savino Dagostino: Any help would be appreciated.
[11:56] Youri Ashton: yes enk, something like the page you just gave
[11:56] Enkidu Linden: ok cool
[11:56] Youri Ashton: but then for all times
[11:56] Enkidu Linden: well
[11:56] Youri Ashton: not just a few months
[11:57] Enkidu Linden: the download URL and the page view URL both take the same set of parameters
[11:57] Youri Ashton: for shop owners it can be vital to use
[11:57] Youri Ashton: proof that they did pay their employees for example or their land
[11:57] Enkidu Linden: also, it's not obvious, but the date parameters can include a time component
[11:57] Enkidu Linden: so like
[11:57] Enkidu Linden: https://secure-web44.secondlife.com/my/account/transactions.php?date_start=2010-09-16&date_end=2010-09-16&include_zero=yes 〈=en&submit=View++(up+to+500)
[11:58] Youri Ashton: or for simple strange things going on, loosing money without knowing why....
[11:58] Enkidu Linden: has date_start=2010-09-16
[11:58] Savino Dagostino: Date ranges are good. How far back can they go?
[11:58] Enkidu Linden: but you could do date_start=2010-09-16%2010:00:03
[11:58] Youri Ashton: goes back to 17 august 2010 for me
[11:58] Enkidu Linden: should go back a month
[11:58] Youri Ashton: my avi was created at start januari 2007
[11:59] Enkidu Linden: we can't store it for all time, unfortunately. it's too much data
[11:59] Enkidu Linden: but i would like to see it go back 2 months
[11:59] Youri Ashton: thats the problem enk, i like to have the option to see what was going on and when
[11:59] Savino Dagostino: If I provide a date that is farther back than that, does it default to the oldest it has, or throw an exception?
[11:59] Enkidu Linden: the other advice i'd give is to use the xml format for downloads, not excel
[12:00] Eddi Decosta: Enki, about the new market place, do you think the inventory of that system could be linked iwht a special tabs in the viewer??
[12:00] Enkidu Linden: hmm.. not sure i remember. try it!
[12:00] Savino Dagostino: Is using XML faster than excel?
[12:00] Enkidu Linden: well, not so much faster as better
[12:01] Enkidu Linden: XLS is a horrible transport format
[12:01] Savino DagostinoSavino Dagostino chuckles Oh, I will....just tryihg to avoid too much trial and error programming.
[12:01] Youri Ashton: the website used xml based pages (downloadables) but for some reason LL stopped using them
[12:01] Enkidu Linden: plus excel reads xml anyway
[12:01] Youri Ashton: xstreet used xml as well
[12:01] Eddi Decosta: notepadd++ its better way to work in xml ㋡
[12:01] Youri Ashton: also gone
[12:01] Eddi Decosta: or read the xml ㋡
[12:01] Savino DagostinoSavino Dagostino nods It does, but my process processes it natively, without a need for Excel.
[12:01] Enkidu Linden: XML also has a 65k rows limit per sheet
[12:01] Enkidu Linden: oops!
[12:01] Enkidu Linden: XLS i mean
[12:01] Enkidu Linden: XML has no limit
[12:02] Youri Ashton: lol
[12:02] Eddi Decosta: Enki, loll sorry :p
[12:02] Enkidu Linden: or rather, we impose a limit on it that is absurd, like 2 million rows or something
[12:02] Savino Dagostino: Hmmm, 65K of sales, over a 30 day...I wish we had that problem!
[12:02] Youri Ashton: could make it create a new file and add the suffix (2) for example
[12:03] Youri Ashton: oh nice! Yoz is on and having his OH now :)
[12:03] Enkidu Linden: so if you want to do it programmatically, you should download xml periodically, depending on how much business you do
[12:03] Enkidu Linden: you should request an overlapping time range with what you already have a weed out duplicates
[12:03] Savino Dagostino: Enkidu, I'm a data warehousing consultant in RL...bring me onboard and we'll fix that 30 day window of data issue,,,, <chuckles>
[12:04] Youri Ashton: thats the point enk, it should be ready for download on choice, currently its very hard to get that
[12:04] Enkidu Linden: very cool!
[12:04] Youri Ashton: anyways, thanks for your OH again enk!
[12:04] Youri Ashton: was fun as usuall!
[12:04] Enkidu Linden: well, it's annoying to get it because you have to deal with logging in
[12:04] Enkidu Linden: yes, thanks for coming!
[12:04] Youri Ashton: :)
[12:04] Enkidu Linden: glad your computer showed up
[12:04] Eddi Decosta: thanks to you Enki ㋡
[12:04] Youri Ashton: asked for forceport
[12:05] Savino Dagostino: Does the blog deal with loggin in/authenticating programmitcally?
[12:05] Eddi Decosta: nice too meet you all the time :0
[12:05] Eddi Decosta: ㋡
[12:05] Enkidu Linden: i think the blog also uses openid
[12:05] Loane Rhosar: thanks...
[12:05] Savino DagostinoSavino Dagostino nods Cool.
[12:05] Savino Dagostino: Enkidu, thanks much for your info!
[12:05] Enkidu Linden: afaik there's no authentication services per se
[12:06] Enkidu Linden: but you can probably simulate it with curl or something pretty easily
[12:06] Savino Dagostino: Passing open login info is always an issue for me
[12:06] Savino DagostinoSavino Dagostino nods I currently use curl...
[12:06] Enkidu Linden: oh cool
[12:06] Enkidu Linden: in that case
[12:06] Enkidu Linden: i suggest using the options to read and write a cookie jar
[12:07] Enkidu Linden: also, i think you want to POST the auth details to openid
[12:07] Enkidu Linden: use the -L param
[12:07] Enkidu Linden: you should end up somewhere after that
[12:07] Savino Dagostino: What does the cookie jar do to help the process?
[12:08] Savino Dagostino: Hopefully, not end up on Blue Mars... <chuckles>
[12:08] Enkidu Linden: your session tokens will be in there when it's all done
[12:08] Savino Dagostino: Nice. I like that.
[12:08] Enkidu Linden: so you'll want to use the same cookiejar file when you make another curl to download
[12:09] Savino Dagostino: How long are the sessions tokens good for, before they expire?
[12:09] Enkidu Linden: i am not sure
[12:09] Enkidu Linden: but!
[12:09] Enkidu Linden: the cookiejar will show the expiry time
[12:10] Enkidu Linden: it's just text in there so you can cat it or vim it or whatever
[12:10] Savino Dagostino: Sweet. That way I dont have to worry about catching a thrown exception around an expired token
[12:10] Enkidu Linden: probably not
[12:11] Enkidu Linden: good luck!
[12:11] Enkidu Linden: i'm going to get lunch
[12:11] Enkidu Linden: feel free to drop by next week if you have problems setting that up
[12:11] Savino Dagostino: Thanks, again, enkidu. Enjoy lunch!
[12:11] Savino Dagostino: WIll do. I just found out about your office hours a few hours ago.
[12:11] Enkidu Linden: have a great week, guys!
[12:11] Enkidu Linden: thanks for coming!
[12:12] Enkidu Linden: see you
[12:12] Savino Dagostino: Later.
[12:12] Savino Dagostino: Take care, eddi

Generated with SLog Wikifier

Retrieved from "https://wiki.secondlife.com/w/index.php?title=User:Enkidu_Linden/Office_Hours/2010-09-16&oldid=1037242"