User:Zero Linden/Office Hours/2008 May 08

• [8:47] Tao Takashi: and Philip should mention this project as well as the IBM collaboration (I just listened to the Paris videos at least partly)
• [8:47] Arawn Spitteler: What's SLGlubglub stand for, again? Teh SL would make it proprietary
• [8:48] otakup0pe Neumann: Making it as open as possible is great, and the name certainly helps reinforce that image.
• [8:48] Zero Linden: Ookay -
• [8:48] Zero Linden: let's start with the name issue
• [8:49] Morgaine Dinova: Well as I see it, there are two issues there along the "proprietary" line ... one the specific mention of "SL", and two the specific mention of one particular connection topology, "Grid".
• [8:49] Tara5 Oh: I have question if it is on topic today? What is the state of play/time table for interoperability of assets as a two way street between SL and OpenSIM?
• [8:49] Zero Linden: Adding "asset interop" to agenda
• [8:49] Morgaine Dinova: I think the Protocol is more general than that, so not sure why its name doesn't reflect the generality.
• [8:50] Dahlia Trimble: would asset interop include script interop?
• [8:50] Morgaine Dinova: Good question Dahlia
• [8:50] Zero Linden: So - on names
• [8:51] Stephen Posaner: sorry had to relog may i get a link to the agenda
• [8:51] Zero Linden: I submitted a long rambly request to the naming gurus at LL to get their feedback on names
• [8:51] Saijanai Kuhn: on the fly: sofar names and documentation issue
• [8:51] Zero Linden: and got, well, nothing
• [8:51] Saijanai Kuhn: issues
• [8:51] Morgaine Dinova: Hahaha
• [8:51] Tao Takashi: so my big issue is the SLG part, esp. with the recent TM policy change
• [8:51] Zero Linden: so, I'd like to instead, put a stake in the ground - and if we still get nothing, then fine, done
• [8:51] Zero Linden: so
• [8:51] Tao Takashi: I would rather like some name which is "free", also because it might convince other players to jump on board
• [8:52] Morgaine Dinova: I like "free", I like "open"
• [8:52] Dahlia Trimble: like in anyone can use ?
• [8:52] Tao Takashi: I also posted a bit on this here: [1] (but read that later)
• [8:52] Zero Linden: well - if we look at the names that most actual standards use - they tend to avoid advertising or prostelitizing in their names
• [8:53] Tao Takashi: has to look up prostelitizing
• [8:53] Zha Ewry: I agree
• [8:53] Vette Carver: lol
• [8:53] Tao Takashi: not found :)
• [8:53] Morgaine Dinova: Well, we're trying to get this on the books as an IETF standard, so tying a brand name to it is VERY BAD.
• [8:53] Zha Ewry: A stabdard ideally, is about hwat it does
• [8:53] Zha Ewry: not who does it
• [8:53] Dahlia Trimble: proseletizing
• [8:53] Zha Ewry: or someone's project name
• [8:53] Zha Ewry: or company name
• [8:53] Saijanai Kuhn: firewire vs ieee 1094 or whatever
• [8:53] Morgaine Dinova: Indeed Zha
• [8:54] Tao Takashi: so I would like OGP and maybe OGP Project
• [8:54] Zero Linden: At some point , if this is IETF, then it will have a nice, dull number RFC 12345
• [8:54] Zero Linden: if it is W3C it'll have an acronym
• [8:54] Morgaine Dinova: Zero: nobody referencesthe numbers though, just the acronyms
• [8:54] Zero Linden: RFC 2822
• [8:54] Zero Linden: all the time
• [8:54] Zero Linden:  :-)
• [8:54] Tao Takashi: ok, so we assign a number for us now? :)
• [8:54] Zero Linden: no
• [8:54] Morgaine Dinova: I mean nobody half sane ;-))))
• [8:55] Tao Takashi: hehe
• [8:55] Zero Linden: I propose this terminology
• [8:55] Tao Takashi: RFC 4242
• [8:55] Zero Linden: The collective name for what we are bilding is the "grid"
• [8:55] Zero Linden: We are building an "open grid"
• [8:55] Zero Linden: and the protocol should be "open grid protocol" or OGP
• [8:55] Zero Linden: and while
• [8:55] Tao Takashi: sounds good
• [8:55] Zero Linden: I realize that in some future we may support topologies
• [8:55] Zero Linden: other than grids -
• [8:55] otakup0pe Neumann: Hi Baba
• [8:56] Zero Linden: I think of it much like the term web
• [8:56] Tao Takashi: I just wonder about the pending registration for the TM for "grid" ;-)
• [8:56] Morgaine Dinova: Hey, I can rattle off RFC numbers too. The numbers are absolute references, but not nearly as useful as compared to "SMTP" or "SCTP" etc
• [8:56] Tree Kyomoon: runs out to register OGP.com
• [8:56] Zero Linden: since really, the world wide web, and hyper-text transport protocol
• [8:56] Zero Linden: are both far more than about webs as structures, or hyper-text as content
• [8:56] Tao Takashi: true
• [8:57] Morgaine Dinova: Zero: where does GRID fit into interop? Nothing of what we're doing (so far) will place a 3rd party world adjacent to an SL region so why talk about "grid"?
• [8:57] Anders Falworth: +1 for OGP. Simple and to the point.
• [8:57] Tao Takashi: one issue might then be nevertheless the protection of that name. I think at some point a foundation might be good or some other institution which owns it
• [8:57] Tao Takashi: not sure how that usually goes once it goes standard
• [8:57] Zha Ewry: well, over time, if we don't get to interop on edge touch, I'd be surprised
• [8:58] Tao Takashi: but it seems similar for OpenID, OpenSocial and so on
• [8:58] Arawn Spitteler: Are two seperate Open sims yet viewing acros a common border?
• [8:58] Morgaine Dinova: Zha: maybe, over time. But we're not even thinking about it currently.
• [8:58] Zha Ewry: Yes
• [8:58] Zero Linden: So why talk about "grid" -- well, because it's nostalgic... because residents commonly refer to this as "the grid"
• [8:58] Zha Ewry: You can edge touch openSims in grid mode or on a same box
• [8:58] Zero Linden: because it is simple, easy to say, like "the web"
• [8:58] Morgaine Dinova: So, "Grid", while everyone is enamoured of the word, is actually totally inapropriate.
• [8:59] Zero Linden: because it has a nice sense of relation to "the net", "the web" and.... "the grid"
• [8:59] Zero Linden: Morgain - so is web
• [8:59] Zero Linden: really
• [8:59] Tara5 Oh: Will this grid end up being a hybrid model including p2p sims Zero?
• [8:59] Arawn Spitteler: I don't believe you have A Grid, until you can edge touch across different servers.
• [8:59] Tree Kyomoon: I think we should call it a "grod"
• [8:59] Saijanai Kuhn: the tesseract
• [8:59] Morgaine Dinova: If I were on the IETF, I'd throw it out on name alone, since the protocol does not implement anything to do with grid-related behaviour or properties
• [8:59] Tree Kyomoon: mixture of great and good
• [9:00] Morgaine Dinova: I like the Open + Protocol though ;-)
• [9:00] Zero Linden: I don't think so, morgaine, SMTP is anything but "simple", HTTP is not at all about "hyper-text"
• [9:00] Zero Linden: so, i don't think the IETF has such a harsh view
• [9:00] Dahlia Trimble: its more of a web than a grid it seems....
• [9:00] Tao Takashi: I think this can be discussed with the IETF and maybe we can still rename it then ;-)
• [9:01] Tao Takashi: but I think for now OGP sounds good as everybody is calling it something like that anyway
• [9:01] Anders Falworth: Names are about metaphors as much as what they really describe, IMHO.
• [9:01] Anders Falworth: Grid is a good metaphor if not literal.
• [9:01] Tree Kyomoon: thinks hyper text is what you get when you spill coffee on a dictionary
• [9:01] Zero Linden: technically, the IETF will give it a number, and not use an acronym or name
• [9:01] Saijanai Kuhn: it should be enough that SL is taken out, for now. THat way, OpenSim and possibly other VW's could be at least semi-comfortable with collaborating
• [9:01] Tao Takashi: what if we don't like the number they give us?
• [9:01] Arawn Spitteler: Simulation Visitor Protocal?
• [9:01] Tao Takashi:  ;-)
• [9:01] Morgaine Dinova: Zero: agreed. But how about at least thinking of the options? The attachment to "grid" seems quite bizarre, and certainly not backed by the intent.
• [9:01] Zero Linden: Tara5 - I'm not sure what a p2p sim means....
• [9:02] Saijanai Kuhn: VOWP Virtual OIpen World Protocol just doesn't sound as nice
• [9:02] Zero Linden: we've been talking about a protocol where region operators will be able to link thier region domains so that one can freely TP between
• [9:02] Arawn Spitteler: Protocol of the Open World?
• [9:02] Morgaine Dinova: I think that what this protocol seeks to achieve is to interoperate virtual worlds, so some reference to that would at least be accurate.
• [9:02] Baba Yamamoto: I think having it tied to 3d or simulations is bad too ;)
• [9:03] Tree Kyomoon: what is SL if not a 3d simulation?
• [9:03] Zha Ewry: Virtual worlds, is very different than 3d simulation
• [9:04] Zha Ewry: The one implies the collaboration, interactive nature
• [9:04] Zha Ewry: tons of 3d simulations are single user
• [9:04] Zha Ewry: (Just saying)
• [9:04] Baba Yamamoto: yeah..
• [9:04] Zero Linden: well.... we could belabor this for a long time
• [9:04] Tree Kyomoon: well not "very" different. Grapes and typewriters are VERY different.
• [9:04] Zero Linden: so, in the interest of getting to other topics
• [9:04] Morgaine Dinova: Zero: to turn this entirely upside down, why not add zone adjacency to the interop protocol? Then at least one could validly defend putting "Grid" in name.
• [9:04] Zero Linden: and for making some concrete motion on this one
• [9:04] Tao Takashi: Ithink grid as a name is fine as everybody right now knows what is meant
• [9:05] Morgaine Dinova: I would like us to add zone adjacency to the model.
• [9:05] Zero Linden: if you have a better name set, then please IM/e-mail it to me by the end of the week
• [9:05] Dahlia Trimble: as long as there are no plans to make it "Grid™"
• [9:05] otakup0pe Neumann: i have to run take it easy everyone
• [9:05] Tree Kyomoon: quickly registers grid.com
• [9:05] Stephen Posaner: what would this do to the sl economy or do you think it would have an effect of multiple cuuencys developing? just a side thought
• [9:05] Arawn Spitteler: It's an Open Sim VW, if you can TP, between Worlds, but only "a grid" if you can walk between.
• [9:05] Saijanai Kuhn: Grid Protocol of the Open World GPOW
• [9:06] Rex Cronon: bye otak...
• [9:06] Baba Yamamoto: tree, good luck getting grid.com where is your time machine back to 1994?
• [9:06] Tree Kyomoon: GROW....Grid related to open worlds
• [9:06] Zero Linden: LL recognizes that the standards name has to be freely usable,
• [9:06] Morgaine Dinova: Well let's allow adjacency, then the name problem goes away.
• [9:06] Baba Yamamoto: morgain, don't add stuff just to make a name fit
• [9:06] Dahlia Trimble: yagrid.com available?
• [9:06] Zero Linden: of course, many standards bodies choose to TM a name so that only compliant implemetnations can use it: WiFi for example
• [9:07] Saijanai Kuhn: I believe that's always been a hope, but first things first. Like login...
• [9:07] Tao Takashi: Dahlia: according to massively there have been plans for Grid (TM)
• [9:07] Morgaine Dinova: Since everyone likes Open Grid Protocol .... if interop allowed grid extension.
• [9:07] Tao Takashi: so that's my only issue
• [9:07] Baba Yamamoto: i could care less if the name fit though ;) OGP works fine
• [9:07] Zero Linden: okay
• [9:07] Zero Linden: officially closing this one now
• [9:07] Tao Takashi: so I would also like to know about plans to TM the name "grid" and if so if a foundation is an option
• [9:07] Morgaine Dinova: Zero: what's stopping us from adding zone adjacency between interopping worlds?
• [9:08] Zero Linden: Tao - I will try to find out about that
• [9:08] Zero Linden: Morgaine - there is a large portion of protocol that is just between adjacent regions
• [9:09] Arawn Spitteler: Zone Adjacency sounds like the difference between Open Worlds and Open Grids.
• [9:09] Morgaine Dinova: Zero: well you've dug a hole for yourself then.
• [9:09] Baba Yamamoto: there needs to be a lot more information about hetgrid than [2]
• [9:10] Rex Cronon: can there be a border sim? that connects 2 different grids?
• [9:10] Zero Linden: if we rule out region adjacency for regions from different domains, then we don't have to standardize that part of the protocol for now
• [9:10] Tao Takashi: Zero: here is the post about it from Massively:
• [9:10] Tara5 Oh: that is what I mean by a hybrid between p2p and grid
• [9:10] Zero Linden: There is also a policy issue:
• [9:10] Zero Linden: for example
• [9:10] Zero Linden: I enter region A
• [9:10] Tao Takashi: "The first one of those is Second (pending since 7 June 2007) and the other one is Grid (pending since 22 June 2007)."
• [9:10] Saijanai Kuhn: het-grid buts "grid" into common use. Easily challengable
• [9:10] Zero Linden: I want to have a child cam in adjacent region B, but it is in a different domain
• [9:10] Zero Linden: I have to establish trust etc. there
• [9:10] Tao Takashi: Sai: that's a question for lawyers ;-)
• [9:11] Zero Linden: I worry about having to resolve incompatible responses from two different domains controling adjacent regions
• [9:11] Zha Ewry: There are some very real heterogeneaity limits in the edge touch picture
• [9:11] Zero Linden: (domain A; plop down here, domain B: You must start in region B' over there...)
• [9:11] Zha Ewry: but that doesn't prevent us from describing how to do it
• [9:13] Tree Kyomoon: we should just use the "Lego" model
• [9:13] Tree Kyomoon: believes lego is the answer to all the worlds problems
• [9:13] Saijanai Kuhn: as I've said many times: the easiest way to handle it is to have border sims that have a common set of rules for both sides
• [9:14] Zero Linden: well - I think we can eventually do it.... It just seemed to me that it wasn't worth tackling in the first rounds
• [9:14] Zero Linden: since, there was plenty to do and achieve before we got to it
• [9:14] Saijanai Kuhn: A sees B as being compabile with A. C sees B as compatible with C. A never sees C. ENd of story (I would think)
• [9:14] Arawn Spitteler: doesn't think we have to tackle a task in the next domain, when defining our borders.
• [9:14] Zero Linden: see, for example, Open Sim and LL's simulator won't be able to be adjacent for a long time - they use entirely private protocols for talking to neighbors
• [9:15] Morgaine Dinova: Well if *in principle" 3rd party region adjacency is on the cards (and so can be mentioned), then "Grid" isn't too bad. But if it's "absolutely no adjacency" then the name is clearly wrong.
• [9:15] Zero Linden: no absolute in my mind, just not top priority to work on
• [9:15] Morgaine Dinova: An open grid is a grid one can add to openly, after all.
• [9:15] Saijanai Kuhn: hopes we get to his question(s)
• [9:15] Zero Linden: since we can get interoperablilty w/o defining that portion of the pie
• [9:15] Morgaine Dinova: Let's do Sai's Q.
• [9:15] Zero Linden: OKAY
• [9:15] Zero Linden: Sai
• [9:15] Zero Linden: go
• [9:15] Zero Linden: quick
• [9:16] Zero Linden: before
• [9:16] Baba Yamamoto: You will never see opensim talk to another sim outside of opensim unless they get off of .net remoting ;)
• [9:16] Zero Linden: someone else
• [9:16] Saijanai Kuhn: First: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Image:Second_LIfe_Login_UML2.png
• [9:16] Zero Linden: gets a word in
• [9:16] Saijanai Kuhn: that pretty much sums up all the issues.
• [9:16] Morgaine Dinova: Run us through it pls Sai
• [9:16] Morgaine Dinova: briefly
• [9:16] Zero Linden: Schweet!
• [9:16] Saijanai Kuhn: 1) svg doesn't work well on the wiki or any of the wikis based on the software LL uses
• [9:16] Zero Linden: what did you do that in?
• [9:16] Saijanai Kuhn: Omnifgraffe
• [9:16] Zero Linden: OH!
• [9:16] Saijanai Kuhn: graffe
• [9:17] Zero Linden: loves OmniGraffle to death...
• [9:17] Saijanai Kuhn: free trial version 1 day left ;-)
• [9:17] SignpostMarv Martin: Saijanai: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:Images_that_trigger_MediaWiki_errors
• [9:17] Saijanai Kuhn: 2: the format you have for the OGP doc doesn't have any sample of how to include graphics
• [9:17] Zero Linden: points to all the diagrams on the white boards behind him... all OmniGraffle
• [9:17] SignpostMarv Martin: it's not just SVGs
• [9:18] Morgaine Dinova: LOL. If LL isn't going to hire Sai, at least buy him a copy of OmniGiraffe :-)
• [9:18] Zero Linden: Hehe!
• [9:18] Baba Yamamoto: it's one of those mac only apps.. i hate it
• [9:19] Zero Linden: I tried doing some of those UML diagrams in a free UML editor
• [9:19] Saijanai Kuhn: 3: the OGP handles AWG type protocols explicitly, but the docs I've been dealing with for Tess include some mention of sim<>sim or server<> server protocols
• [9:19] Zha Ewry: OpenSim is going to a REST based interface, if the discussion on the IRC chat are to be taken seriously
• [9:19] Zero Linden: (the one that is installed with Unbuntu)
• [9:19] Zha Ewry: the .net remoteing is known to be DOA for interop or scaling
• [9:19] Zero Linden: and, well, the editor was too buggy to really use
• [9:19] Saijanai Kuhn: so.... what is the policy on diagrams, how they are included, what size, how linked, etc
• [9:19] Tao Takashi: I used VP UML which worked ok
• [9:19] Saijanai Kuhn: and what is the policy on server to server protocols, how detailed, etc
• [9:20] Zero Linden: Zha - what do use you mean REST ... as in vs. OGP's style ?
• [9:20] Morgaine Dinova: Sai: I think you're creating the policy
• [9:20] Zha Ewry: right now, the edge stuff in OpenSim
• [9:20] Zha Ewry: is based on .Net remoting
• [9:20] Zha Ewry: which..
• [9:20] Zha Ewry: shidders
• [9:20] Zero Linden: ah
• [9:20] Zha Ewry: *shudders
• [9:20] Zero Linden: Saijanai
• [9:20] Saijanai Kuhn: notice I made teh server to server arrows more sketchy partly because I don't know much, and partly because it seemed out of the range of what the OGP covers
• [9:20] Zha Ewry: The core team, has talked, about fixing it, to some form of a REST set of interfaces
• [9:21] Zha Ewry: but.. as its workign code
• [9:21] Zero Linden: almost all specs. prefer to keep diagrams as non-normative - and usually out of the main document
• [9:21] Morgaine Dinova: Zha: but they ackowledge that .NET remoting is bad and want to drop it
• [9:21] Zha Ewry: and.. there is a sense that.. some of if sould be informed by this discussion
• [9:21] Zha Ewry: nothign has been done
• [9:21] Zha Ewry: Oh, totally Morgaine
• [9:21] Zero Linden: that said, I'm not against them being included -- though I do agree they should be non-normative
• [9:21] Zha Ewry: Everyone knows its awful
• [9:21] Saijanai Kuhn: so, a footnote or link or just a reference somehwere to a page with illustrations or...
• [9:21] Zero Linden: as for standards - I think Morgaine is right - you're setting 'em!
• [9:22] Tara5 Oh: is that really so Morgaine? Who should I check with? about dropping .net?
• [9:22] Zero Linden: Sai - right
• [9:22] Saijanai Kuhn: well, would b enice to get paid to do em (/me glances at ever dwindling savings)
• [9:22] Morgaine Dinova: Zero: I've just read "Tao of Linden", so I know that if Sai were a Linden, that's how it would work ;-)
• [9:23] Saijanai Kuhn: so... should I just have a simple text link to the illustration, or will you add that or...
• [9:23] Rex Cronon: group chat borked:(
• [9:24] Zero Linden: Sai - right now you can't add it directly - please add it to the discussion pages I created for each section
• [9:24] Morgaine Dinova: Tara5: I think it was Adam who mentioned it. But was 2 weeks ago, could be wrong
• [9:24] Saijanai Kuhn: and what about the server to server stuff...
• [9:24] Zero Linden: I'll figure out how to get references to them into the next draft
• [9:24] Zero Linden: Okay
• [9:24] Zero Linden: in our remaining 6 min.....
• [9:24] Zero Linden: Tara5 had a question about
• [9:24] Zero Linden: assets and interop
• [9:24] Tara5 Oh: timetable for interop of assets and scripts with opensime zero!!
• [9:24] Morgaine Dinova: Ahd Dahlia had one too, about script assets
• [9:25] Zero Linden: Our frist plan is to do what it takes to get your oufit on....
• [9:25] Zero Linden: if you can visit another region, but you've got be ruth'd....
• [9:25] Tao Takashi: I just had a question on last time regarding service discovery and if we are talking about caps here (which I assume)
• [9:25] Dahlia Trimble: or "rose"d
• [9:26] Rex Cronon: so, i am going to say it here. could LL alow a 24h grace period after a new RC is released? During this time the previous version can still be used? I wanted to login, and it told me to that i have to download a new version.
• [9:26] Dahlia Trimble: (opensim equivelent of ruth
• [9:26] Miz Mizin: BLING OFF
• [9:26] Zero Linden: welll - points to pciture behind him - we can already do that
• [9:27] Miz Mizin: bling off
• [9:27] Dahlia Trimble: yay asset interop works fine for ruth ;)
• [9:27] Tao Takashi: I will post an XRDS example to the list btw
• [9:27] Zero Linden: Rex - I hate when that happens tooo
• [9:27] Tao Takashi: and Zero, I actually meant XRDS-Simple last time
• [9:27] Zero Linden: Wait I'm trying to answer Tara5's issue
• [9:27] BigMike Bukowski: 000000000
• [9:27] BigMike Bukowski: 0
• [9:28] Zero Linden: so after outfits - and then attachements
• [9:28] BigMike Bukowski: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
• [9:28] Zero Linden: then we'll deal with other things
• [9:28] Zero Linden: BigMike seems to be talking in base-1
• [9:28] Rex Cronon: i didn't want to itrerupt, that is why i didn't sai hi, when i came in. so hi:)
• [9:28] BigMike Bukowski: 0
• [9:28] BigMike Bukowski: 00000
• [9:28] Tree Kyomoon: no, hes trying to spell words with Cheerios
• [9:28] Zero Linden: O!
• [9:29] Saijanai Kuhn: he has one key that works?
• [9:29] Zero Linden: But, I think that scripts will have to wait a bit....
• [9:29] Zero Linden: does OpenSiim use the same bytecode?
• [9:29] Zero Linden: anyone know?
• [9:29] Morgaine Dinova: Zero: what's the *principle* behind script interop though?
• [9:29] Morgaine Dinova: If any :-)
• [9:29] Zero Linden: of course, inter-op of scripts will require a trust model that works
• [9:29] Dahlia Trimble: I think it may be some form of CLI but not sure
• [9:30] Saijanai Kuhn: pretty sue it handles both CLI and LSL2 VM
• [9:30] Zero Linden: I would perfer to base interop either on source text, or MONO CIL
• [9:30] Zero Linden: I would really perfer not to enshrine the LSL bytecode langauge in a standard
• [9:30] Saijanai Kuhn: bows to the LSL2 byte code (not worhty not worthy)
• [9:30] Dahlia Trimble: I think opensim compiles scripts when it receives the asset
• [9:30] Zero Linden: source text will require remote regions to compile on first appearance
• [9:30] Zero Linden: but that may not be so bad
• [9:31] Dahlia Trimble: except for state data
• [9:31] Zero Linden: on the other hand CIL would keep the independence of source langauge from the interop issues
• [9:31] Zero Linden: Sai - please - I think stomping on the LSL2 bytecode would be more appropraite!
• [9:32] Saijanai Kuhn: knees the LSL2 bytecode while kneeling
• [9:32] Morgaine Dinova: Security nightmare ahead. Scripts could be a wonderful vector for virus migration between worlds.
• [9:32] Tao Takashi: Zero: just FYI. the XRDS-Simple spec is here: [3]
• [9:32] Zero Linden: Morgain - one of the bueaties of the scripting construction in SL is that they are always very very very self contained
• [9:32] Saijanai Kuhn: Silverlight sandbox with allegedly take care of that MOrgaine
• [9:32] Saijanai Kuhn: test
• [9:32] Saijanai Kuhn: lag in local chat. Ick
• [9:33] Zero Linden: see - Babbage'
• [9:33] Zero Linden: see Babbage's and my keynote address at Oopsla 2007
• [9:33] Zero Linden: where we talk about this point
• [9:33] Saijanai Kuhn: is that on the Wiki?
• [9:33] Dahlia Trimble: have a url?
• [9:34] Zero Linden: Alas, I don't hav the rights to the audio and video... .but you can find it on the web from the ACM
• [9:34] Saijanai Kuhn: wishes they would get that free access to scientific papers thing pushed through
• [9:34] Morgaine Dinova: Zero: currently contained yes, because in effect you have a mass of 16KB VMs. But with Mono, the separation seems to be less strong --- the runtime is actually intended for multiple entities to work as a whole.
• [9:35] Zero Linden: audio is here: [4]
• [9:35] Zero Linden: we are keynote #18
• [9:35] Saijanai Kuhn: Babbage was talking about how the Silverlight sandbox might be adapted to SL.
• [9:35] Zero Linden: Morgaine - in that talk you can hear Babbage talk about how we constructs a similar environment within Mono
• [9:35] Morgaine Dinova: Zero: neat
• [9:35] Saijanai Kuhn: which would allow any CIL language and client-side compiling
• [9:36] Zero Linden: by the way - #19 and #20 in that list are both extraordinary talks
• [9:36] Zero Linden: thought for #19 - you should really find the video
• [9:37] Zero Linden: yikes -
• [9:37] Zero Linden: I'm waaaaaa late
• [9:37] Zero Linden: thanks all for coming
• [9:37] Zero Linden: I'll read up on XRDS
• [9:37] Rex Cronon: bye zero
• [9:37] Zero Linden: later
• [9:37] Saijanai Kuhn: later Zero
• [9:37] Dahlia Trimble: bye :)
• [9:37] Wyn Galbraith: bai
• [9:38] Morgaine Dinova: waves
• [9:38] Dahlia Trimble: peeps
• [9:38] JayR Cela: BYEE ALL
• [9:38] Rex Cronon: bye jayr
• [9:39] Morgaine Dinova: Cya Jay
• [9:39] Tao Takashi: here are some videos: [5]
• [9:39] Basil Wijaya: bye all
• [9:39] Rex Cronon: bye basil
• [9:39] Zha Ewry: BY all
• [9:39] Rex Cronon: bye zha
• [9:39] Dahlia Trimble: bye :)
• [9:39] Tara5 Oh: bye!
• [9:39] Saijanai Kuhn: laters
• [9:39] couch sit: 1 RED.: China Belar, say '/1 Hide' to hide me, or '/1 Show' to make me show. Or just right-click and sit on me to use me.
• [9:39] Rex Cronon: bye everybody
• [9:40] Dahlia Trimble: gets out while the gettin' is good... bye :)
• [9:41] Tao Takashi: I also gotta run, cya later!
• [9:41] Morgaine Dinova: Cyu all
• [9:41] Morgaine Dinova: Going to chase up some of those links
• [9:44] SignpostMarv Martin: is going to log till his next meeting comes up
• [9:44] SignpostMarv Martin: toodles peeps