Doc Team/2010-01-27

Transcript

[13:00]	Torley Linden:	OH FRIENDLY GREETINGS.
[13:00]	Xaria Mistwallow:	friendly hello's torley!
[13:00]	Gnome Inkpen:	WHY frienly greetings!
[13:00]	Nathan Adored:	Hello Mr Linden.
[13:00]	Zamantha Carter:	I'm reminded of the Winnie th Pooh song aout it
[13:00]	Pim Peccable:	Greetings Torley!
[13:00]	xstorm Radek:	he he he he he
[13:01]	Arawn Spitteler:	Friedly Greetings, Native; let me eat your leader
[13:01]	Zamantha Carter:	Hi Torley
[13:01]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Hey Torley.
[13:01]	Xaria Mistwallow:	oh torley, got something also for you!
[13:01]	xstorm Radek:	greetings Torley
[13:01]	Xaria Mistwallow:	let me send it to you
[13:01]	Zamantha Carter:	Hi Aargle, long time :)
[13:01]	Torley Linden:	Pardon in advance if the rest of my fine team can't make it today; they may all be occupied! But I am here to field any questions, concerns, wackiness you may have about Second Life documentation (help files)... or tangentially related awesomeness.
[13:01]	Torley Linden:	Thanks Xaria!
[13:01]	Xaria Mistwallow	gave you The Vault 2.0 Gift Box.
[13:01]	Aargle Zymurgy:	hey Torley!
[13:01]	Xaria Mistwallow:	working on a huge Fall out 3 style project
[13:01]	Torley Linden:	Oh and Xaria I wanted to let you know that yes, part of Here is "on sale" intentionally for testing. No one can afford it, not even Governor Linden. ;) So no fear, it shall not be snapped up.
[13:02]	Pim Peccable:	I am trying to find out who is responsible for New User Experience these days. Is that the Doc Team?
[13:02]	Torley Linden:	I haven't played Fallout 3, not sure if I will, but I like that atmosphere and pedigree of game...
[13:02]	xstorm Radek:	Torley i bet they are fix in lots of server bugs and sim problems
[13:02]	s now	on Facebook, as Aaron Freeman: John Travolta bought himself a pilot's liscense, to go with his airplane http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/26/john-travolta-scientology-aid-haiti
[13:02]	Aargle Zymurgy:	yeah, I had a poke around Here when I saw it in one of your vids.
[13:02]	Torley Linden:	Ah Pim, no. That would be cross-departmental, different teams are involved. Doc Team is involved insofar as writing help... did you have a specific question?
[13:02]	xstorm Radek:	unless i sent in to many abuse reports
[13:02]	Xaria Mistwallow:	lol
[13:02]	Gnome Inkpen:	I had planz to buy that! Aw, shucks.
[13:02]	Xaria Mistwallow:	glad you were aware :p
[13:03]	Torley Linden:	It feels weird to sit in this chair, I'm usually on a couch, hoo-hah! (In an Al Pacino voice.)
[13:03]	xstorm Radek:	i blame Torley every time i file a Abuse Report
[13:03]	Pim Peccable:	I have a college project : I must study and suggest improvements to a business process. I thought of the NUE
[13:03]	Xaria Mistwallow:	talked to kate about it before i forgot again, we both thought you may have forgotten after shooting one of your wonderfull videos!
[13:03]	Zamantha Carter:	Really, I think of Torley whenever I have a watermelon
[13:03]	Xaria Mistwallow:	the vault parts are done actually, rest what i doing is misc items, like the junk you see on the ground and other things that may need to be added
[13:03]	Torley Linden:	Ah yes, NUE used to be the providence of a single team, but now as the world and Linden Lab have grown, different parts of it are spread out.
[13:03]	xstorm Radek:	To file an abuse report simply go to the help menu and click on 'Report Abuse'
[13:04]	Torley Linden:	Kate did let me know, Xaria! Thanx.
[13:04]	Aargle Zymurgy:	Torley, I dunno if this falls into the doc team's jurisdiction, but I made a Jira suggestion that first attempts to use the Unlink menu feature give a heavy "do you wish to continue" warning. I get too many new customers who really don't get that and just use link and unlink to move things around and just get themselves in trouble.
[13:04]	Xaria Mistwallow:	no problem!
[13:04]	Torley Linden:	I promised last week I'd blog about covenants, and so I have... http://secondlife.com/tnt
[13:04]	Pim Peccable:	Maybe one team would be willing to let me study their part
[13:04]	Nathan Adored:	yeah, ty.
[13:04]	xstorm Radek:	Torley you can have my spot :-)
[13:04]	Pim Peccable	smiles
[13:04]	Pim Peccable:	(good to keep promises)
[13:05]	Xaria Mistwallow:	no jeremy or kate today?
[13:05]	Torley Linden:	Aargle, I agree, and not having an undo for that is painful. Doc Team does provide internal feedback when something we're documenting is hard to explain or has ramifications like that... and so often, by nature of me just *being* in Second Life and using tools, I FEEL THAT PAIN.
[13:05]	Torley Linden:	Xaria, alas not that I think of.
[13:05]	Xaria Mistwallow:	we still have one of the doc team musketeers!
[13:06]	Torley Linden:	Pim, yeah, I find making an open committment helps, if I promise to do something and you hear it and it's on the record, haha, I can't hide that! =) But seriously I enjoy sharing about SL culture and how things came to be... and where they might be going!
[13:06]	xstorm Radek:	test test is this thing on ?
[13:06]	Aargle Zymurgy:	heh, well, I'm ok with living without an undo for linking... but you'd be surprised how many people think you have to link things to move them as a unit to another spot.
[13:06]	Pim Peccable:	yes, XStorm - loud & clear
[13:06]	Nathan Adored	winces as the singalhowlaround happens
[13:06]	Torley Linden:	Gnome, it's funny how you have a mini V-Synth. Long ago I wanted to buy one but didn't have the cash at the time, so I symbolically wore one in SL. They've advanced several generations by now... I think.
[13:06]	Xaria Mistwallow:	voice is disabled here xstorm :p
[13:06]	xstorm Radek:	;-)
[13:06]	Aargle Zymurgy:	of coruse, you could always just make it mandatory to watch your videos before using some of the menus. :-)
[13:06]	Xaria Mistwallow:	thanks to someone that did not want to listen to torley's warnings :p
[13:07]	Nathan Adored:	Oo
[13:07]	Aargle Zymurgy	watches Torley's videos just for the entertainment some days
[13:07]	Gnome Inkpen:	Indeed! I saw it on your older av's and was like OMG I gotta use that somehow, and bring it back to life. :D
[13:07]	Torley Linden:	Ah yes, that's a good point, Aargle. Misconceptions like that can be explained better. Some of my videos have been workarounds for problems not fixed sooner — but of course, if the problem can be rendered moot in the first place (as in, "WHAT PROBLEM?"), then ultimately, that seamlessness is elegant and intuitive. To use a couple words Steve Jobs might! Oh my gosh the iPad is out!
[13:07]	Torley Linden:	Hahahaha.
[13:07]	Arawn Spitteler:	Someone mentioned, that there's a way, to identify which link number you've selected to edit, but it's the old Cheesy Bacon Problem, as far as looing that feature up
[13:07]	xstorm Radek:	I CAN carry on conversations using only gestures.
[13:08]	Xaria Mistwallow:	haha
[13:08]	Xaria Mistwallow:	always wanting to use voice huh xstorm :p
[13:08]	Nathan Adored:	Oo
[13:08]	xstorm Radek:	yes
[13:08]	Torley Linden:	A lot of my motivation for doing the videos came out of me saying things out loud when I was having problems in SL, and knowing — based on similar complaints I saw — that simply showing stuff could often be faster and more fun than walls of text (text still has its place, but all these elements must work together).
[13:08]	Xaria Mistwallow:	wooly wool mommoth!
[13:08]	Summer Seale:	Halllooooo
[13:08]	Torley Linden:	Soon, it'll be four years since I first started making video tutorials and OH MY GOSH... Summer!
[13:08]	Xaria Mistwallow:	hey summer!
[13:08]	Summer Seale:	torley!
[13:09]	Torley Linden:	Glad to know that species isn't extinct. :)
[13:09]	Pim Peccable:	multiple channels makes it easier to learn
[13:09]	xstorm Radek:	problems in SL like linden wallet not working
[13:09]	Summer Seale:	flea made it and gave me all three versions =)
[13:09]	Xaria Mistwallow:	oh my, nice avi summer
[13:09]	Arawn Spitteler:	Do Mamoths count as Woolies, rather than Furies?
[13:09]	Summer Seale:	doesn't it rock?? =)
[13:09]	Xaria Mistwallow:	where did you buy?
[13:09]	Aargle Zymurgy:	I get so many people who don't speak english anymore that a lot of my help stuff I'm doing just as pictures.
[13:09]	Nathan Adored:	is that a mmammoth?
[13:09]	Summer Seale:	yup!
[13:09]	xstorm Radek:	venders not working lol
[13:09]	Torley Linden:	Pim, yes, and different learning styles. I find video is just "show as is" so that's straightforward...
[13:09]	Summer Seale:	so what are we talking about? ipad? haha =)
[13:09]	xstorm Radek:	crashing from textures
[13:09]	Torley Linden:	Ah good point Aargle!
[13:09]	Summer Seale:	yummy grass you keep here, torley =)
[13:09]	Gnome Inkpen:	I'm unpopular in Second Life, should I file a JIRA?
[13:10]	Xaria Mistwallow:	now dont shew on the furries!
[13:10]	xstorm Radek:	yes gnome
[13:10]	Torley Linden:	Whenever there are problems, I look for opportunities from ingenious people — like folks who improved inworld translators to such a state that Snowglobe (and some others, I think) include a built-in translator.
[13:10]	Aargle Zymurgy	tries to imagine Torley's videos in spanish: "Hola, eh?"
[13:10]	Gnome Inkpen:	Or haz this bug already been reported?
[13:10]	Summer Seale:	i miss torley videos! =(
[13:10]	Torley Linden:	Aargle, I've actually heard a French one...
[13:10]	Summer Seale:	on the blog!
[13:10]	Arawn Spitteler:	If you're so unpopular, that people won't let you beg in a welcome area, you might file an abuse report
[13:10]	Summer Seale:	the blog is so boring now
[13:10]	Zamantha Carter:	only if I can do SL on an iPad
[13:10]	Pim Peccable:	But if he is unpopular, no one will vote for that JIRA
[13:10]	Xaria Mistwallow:	you could doa translation on his videos
[13:10]	Xaria Mistwallow:	im sure Torley wont mind that
[13:10]	Torley Linden:	There isn't an official iPhone client yet but I know there's that Touch Life one, which I'm glad is exploring possibilities.
[13:10]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	Translators need you to be careful what you type.
[13:11]	Torley Linden:	Some translator Residents (like Laurent Bechir) have been working with our Localization Team to do their own language-specific videos.
[13:11]	Xaria Mistwallow:	ask the CT translation team of that language, perhaps they can help out a little
[13:11]	Nathan Adored	wonders how many mamoths could fit on this platform before there's no more room.... prolly not many
[13:11]	Aargle Zymurgy:	my favorite mis-translation of something originally intended to be spanish for "my bad" came through as: "Tapeworm is my culpa"
[13:11]	Xaria Mistwallow:	atm there are a lot doing nothing due to NDA work
[13:11]	Torley Linden:	The key thing I find so often, is to not think too much about what needs help filled, and jump into the wild — inworld, SL Answers, grab what's hot and act on it. Hot topics get a disproportional amount of attention and can help many more people too.
[13:11]	Summer Seale:	hehe
[13:12]	Torley Linden:	OH MY GOSH THAT BALLOON IS ADORABLE XSTORM.
[13:12]	Arawn Spitteler	imagines Torley Tuts with Chinese Subtitles, so that two billion people will be able to understand them.
[13:12]	Torley Linden:	I heart being with you guys just for the badass avatars.
[13:12]	xstorm Radek:	ty :-)
[13:12]	Summer Seale:	oh wow i love it xstorm =)
[13:12]	Summer Seale:	that is sooo cute
[13:12]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot	mutters, "It gets bad enough when the dragons come to a dance, but mammoths at office hours...."
[13:12]	Aargle Zymurgy:	I think I'm looking boring anymore.
[13:12]	Summer Seale:	hey this is pretty rare for me.
[13:12]	Torley Linden:	Mammoth steaks!
[13:12]	Torley Linden:	:O
[13:13]	Summer Seale:	nooo!
[13:13]	Nathan Adored:	I saw someone in a large ringed-planet av once! :D
[13:13]	xstorm Radek:	it helps when i have to file abuse reports lol
[13:13]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	Hmm, I am an omnivore.
[13:13]	Nathan Adored:	I think it even had moons! :D
[13:13]	xstorm Radek:	wow
[13:13]	Xaria Mistwallow:	lol, summer snores =)
[13:13]	xstorm Radek:	mammoth is big
[13:13]	Torley Linden:	I haven't seen an Ice Age region yet... if someone did a themed one like that, maybe next winter...
[13:13]	Arawn Spitteler	imagines scripting planets to show their moons only in Adult Sims
[13:13]	Summer Seale:	did you see raglan this winter?
[13:13]	Summer Seale:	they had my new trees all over the place
[13:14]	Xaria Mistwallow:	torley isnt a flower summer =P
[13:14]	Summer Seale:	he needs a wash
[13:14]	Summer Seale:	lol
[13:14]	Arawn Spitteler:	He's a Watermelon
[13:14]	Torley Linden:	IT'S A JURASSIC SHOWDOWN.
[13:14]	Xaria Mistwallow:	lol
[13:14]	Pim Peccable:	Torley, You do have a sign up that you welcome help with the KB, etc. Should I try that and IM you and your teamates at need?
[13:14]	xstorm Radek:	i think only thing i seen was the whinter build contest back in 2005
[13:14]	Zamantha Carter:	i feel boring too aargle
[13:14]	Nathan Adored:	ah, stegasaurus.... neat
[13:14]	Torley Linden:	Pim, which one are you referring to? Just to be sure? :D
[13:14]	Summer Seale:	lol
[13:14]	Summer Seale:	sorry torley i'll be quiet! =)
[13:14]	Vorg Bigbear:	I came here to ask about some of the limits SL has about animating huge creations like a huge robot/titan/mech that i have built. Many has said it is not posible and many others has said it is posible and all the ones saying it is posible point me to Torley Linden. So now i ask can you make a huge objekt move that has 665 prims and has legs? I can move the head and weapon arms in a loop only (Have a pic to show so you see what i talk about)
[13:14]	Xaria Mistwallow:	doesnt do much tho
[13:15]	Pim Peccable:	this easel has a notice that you welcome suggestions
[13:15]	Xaria Mistwallow:	grendels released a lot of avitars now, for FREE
[13:15]	Summer Seale:	i dunno how you'd smoothly animate 665 prims at once =/ even with puppeteer..it pushes the limits of SL's animation capabilities
[13:15]	Vorg Bigbear:	Well i am using a puppett script
[13:15]	xstorm Radek:	i hope some one has a pooper scuper
[13:16]	Summer Seale:	yea i've never seen more than a few prims smoothly animated at once. if you do lots of prims it ends up being choppy
[13:16]	Nathan Adored	wonders if any more prehistoric critters will show up here today.
[13:16]	Vorg Bigbear:	But i want to use it as an avi or vehicle
[13:16]	Aargle Zymurgy:	hey, Vorg, I'd really suggest that you talk in the scripting groups about that. if you're having troubles, I'd almost that's the best route
[13:16]	Pim Peccable:	can you leave that in a no build area?
[13:16]	Torley Linden:	Vorg, oh hi! Welcome... as Summer mentions that might be pushing it — also, a single linkset can't have that many prims, so it'd be divided among three or so objects.
[13:16]	Summer Seale:	yes even with a single linkset you'd have major major challenges with that many prims
[13:16]	Vorg Bigbear:	Well i have seen big things animated and was hoping my creation would be able to walk
[13:17]	Aargle Zymurgy:	"Scripters of Second Life" or "Scripting Help" are good groups
[13:17]	Summer Seale:	i'm not a professional animator, but i do play a know-it-all on your monitor!
[13:17]	Torley Linden:	And what Aargle says! Your question sounds like it'd need more research... multiple questions! https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo
[13:17]	Vorg Bigbear:	Mind if i send you a pic Torley?
[13:17]	Arawn Spitteler:	I guess you'd need special animations, to stretch the body parts, to animate a giant, with so many prims
[13:17]	Torley Linden:	If you see prior examples that inspire you, Vorg, you should ask those creators, since they'd be in the best position... if they want to share those mechanics. Yes, please do, I welcome seeing cool creations always!
[13:17]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	I do CGI in other environments, and complicated objects really slow down animation, whatever you're working with.
[13:18]	Arawn Spitteler:	The prim limit would only been in force, AFAIK, if you try scripting the linksets
[13:18]	Summer Seale:	i work in maya since 10 years, on and off, and i can tell you that animating that many things is gonna blow a few CPUs if you try to do it smoothly lol
[13:18]	Vorg Bigbear:	Anyone else want a pic of it to see if that is something that could be animated?
[13:18]	Aargle Zymurgy:	as a somewhat broader question about language..... Torley, any clue how much people have taken advantage of the llGetAgentLanguage option to make, for example, multi-lingual greeters?
[13:18]	Torley Linden:	Oh yeah Pim! About that, did you know you can edit Knowledge Base articles directly? On http://secondlife.com/kb it explains more at the bottom. In many cases that's easier than contacting us directly but certain policy pages do have a contact form.
[13:18]	Summer Seale:	question: why would it need that many prims tho? you could seriously reduce your prims with sculpts/textures
[13:18]	xstorm Radek:	can you ?
[13:18]	Summer Seale:	yea totally
[13:18]	Arawn Spitteler:	Smoothly? As I recall, it takes time to download other than default anims, which messes up public ballet
[13:18]	Pim Peccable:	thanks, Torley. I'll note that
[13:19]	Summer Seale:	you could build that with sculpties and animate that way nicer, honestly
[13:19]	Torley Linden:	Hmmm that I wouldn't know, that's a very eclectic one though, Aargyle. I wonder if someone like Xan Linden (Data Warehousing/stats guru) tracks that. Or Meta, who also has office hours and loves questions like that.
[13:19]	Vorg Bigbear:	Cuz the thing is it looks odd with a lot of sculpts
[13:19]	Vorg Bigbear	gave you Titan.
[13:19]	Vorg Bigbear:	It is the details
[13:19]	xstorm Radek:	well we need a good one on group land and group land owning
[13:19]	Vorg Bigbear:	If you look at the pic
[13:19]	Summer Seale:	sculpts = texture details too
[13:19]	Torley Linden:	Meta is super purple and her office is just across the water... hehe...
[13:19]	xstorm Radek:	the one that they have is a mess
[13:19]	Torley Linden:	That's a pretty cool-looking mech, Vorg! I'd heart to see that in action.
[13:19]	Summer Seale:	yea it is pretty cool looking =)
[13:20]	Summer Seale	trumpets it
[13:20]	Torley Linden:	Group land stuff is a doozy to explain. :O
[13:20]	Aargle Zymurgy:	ok, I'll try at one of their meetings. I'm finding out recently just how spread out SL is (owning an audio stream that shows where listeners are from is enlightening)
[13:20]	Vorg Bigbear:	Well it can move a bit but not walk
[13:20]	xstorm Radek:	not for me
[13:20]	Arawn Spitteler	normally describes this dock as under the purple square
[13:20]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	I keep thinking wrong on texturing sculpts... Too used tio being able to tweak the UV mapping myself.
[13:21]	Aargle Zymurgy:	that's VERY cool (in more ways than one, I guess)
[13:21]	xstorm Radek:	the basics of group land must first have a total amount you buy for the group open to group funds
[13:21]	Arawn Spitteler:	Crazies in SL? This place might keep them Sane!!!
[13:21]	Gnome Inkpen:	I wonder if people from Marz connect to Second Life?
[13:21]	xstorm Radek:	the group funds must be more then the land you will buy
[13:21]	Torley Linden:	I've never really been to Antarctica and sadly my knowledge of the place is horribly tainted by John Carpenter's The Thing, but nonetheless... ;)
[13:21]	Arawn Spitteler	wonders if WEB-1406 could be construed as a documentation failure
[13:22]	Nathan Adored:	Speaking of demographics, has there been a kind of census done to determine how many regulars in SL are what kind of creature in world most of the time, and what each type of group of creature (the furries, the kid-avs, etc) each do and how much of each? Say, how often kid-avs are at clubs, or at RP events, etc?
[13:22]	Torley Linden:	Hahahaha Aargle.
[13:22]	Pim Peccable:	SL is excellent therapy
[13:22]	Summer Seale:	it is!
[13:22]	xstorm Radek:	if the group is short you will get a error message
[13:22]	Aargle Zymurgy:	oh, I'm more worried about Aliens and Preditors down there.
[13:22]	Nathan Adored:	*catsneeze~~*
[13:22]	Arawn Spitteler:	My father knew the first person to have a heterosexual affair, amongst the crazy
[13:22]	Pim Peccable:	fascinating idea, Nathan
[13:22]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	Have you heard about the Russian Doctor ion Antarctica who too his own appendix out?
[13:22]	Nathan Adored:	And, for that matter, what percentage of the populations is what?
[13:22]	Torley Linden:	Nathan, I don't know who did the last study on that. Some groups are suggested to get a lot of publicity/controversy but don't actually constitute many Residents. From time to time sociological studies from universities are conducted, but I'm unsure how widely their research is disseminated.
[13:23]	Nathan Adored:	Say, how many kid avs there are in world, how many furreies, how many spae aliens, how many dragons, elves, walking treeoids, etc...
[13:23]	Torley Linden:	I HEART H.R. GIGER.
[13:23]	s currently	worried about Antarctica's relative mach speed
[13:23]	xstorm Radek:	oh and do not ask support about some group land problems its better to find as much info on it you can
[13:23]	Nathan Adored:	*space aliens
[13:23]	Torley Linden:	We did have stats previously on which *starting* avatars people picked from the Library. Don't recall what the results were tho.
[13:23]	Summer Seale:	i'm usually a faerie girl. i'm just feeling my munificence today.
[13:23]	Summer Seale:	yea i have the hippo too =)
[13:23]	xstorm Radek:	H R did have out a game at one time
[13:23]	Xaria Mistwallow:	have 3 hippo's now =)
[13:23]	Nathan Adored:	Hmmmm... might be worth commissioning a new , for want of a better word, census.
[13:24]	xstorm Radek:	it was based on his art work
[13:24]	Xaria Mistwallow:	got this at grendels =)
[13:24]	Summer Seale:	o/
[13:24]	Summer Seale:	yea
[13:24]	Torley Linden:	"Walking treeoids" falls under the "FANS OF ENTS". :D
[13:24]	Xaria Mistwallow:	got a ent =)
[13:24]	Summer Seale:	i don't usually wear AVs. i'm just me.
[13:24]	Summer Seale:	this is kinda an exception
[13:24]	Arawn Spitteler	has a tiny tree, as a fan of Dwarvents
[13:24]	Nathan Adored:	I for one would genuinely like to know just what the populatoin here of kid-avs actually is... and would also love to know what all theiy're doing.
[13:24]	Torley Linden:	Usually what tends to happen is if an academic institution carries out some wonderful study, they let their edu. contacts at LL know, and that may appear on the blog. Sometimes it's case studies of SL used in intriguing ways.
[13:24]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	I ran into one of those research projects, some young lady who said she was from MIT. Said I was a "control".
[13:24]	blogHUD Messenger:	Your image post has arrived at blogHUD.com []: see http://bloghud.com/id/37666
[13:24]	Summer Seale:	it's so i can spray torley with water. =)
[13:25]	Summer Seale:	hehe
[13:25]	Torley Linden:	Maybe I need a Bird Bird av so I can show you how to all get to Sesame Street!
[13:25]	Nathan Adored:	㋡
[13:25]	Torley Linden:	Er, BIG Bird.
[13:25]	Summer Seale:	lol
[13:25]	Xaria Mistwallow:	lol
[13:25]	Summer Seale:	yea i feel like mrs. snuffalupagus!
[13:25]	Nathan Adored:	Big Bird, you mean?
[13:25]	xstorm Radek:	i tend not to stay the same too long a small shape help when building
[13:25]	Summer Seale:	halloooo big biiird....
[13:25]	Aargle Zymurgy:	interesting. out of 181 unique visitors to my sim in the last 24 hours, only 114 used english based clients.
[13:25]	Gnome Inkpen:	I TOTALLY <3 big bird!
[13:25]	Torley Linden:	I remember watching Follow That Bird as a kid, it tripped me out... my childhood was never the same after that.
[13:25]	Xaria Mistwallow:	the american version or the orriginal dutch one? blue?
[13:25]	Summer Seale:	me too =)
[13:25]	Torley Linden:	I had no idea there was a Dutch one. The yellow one, I refer to.
[13:25]	Nathan Adored:	Most of the time, I'm in kid-av form. Occasionally I'm a cat furry.
[13:26]	Xaria Mistwallow:	dutch one is blue feathers with orange paws and beak
[13:26]	Xaria Mistwallow:	called Pino
[13:26]	Summer Seale:	i look so good in brown fur
[13:26]	yoshiko Fazuku:	hi nathna im soory i was slow getting to your tp
[13:26]	Aargle Zymurgy:	what the heck language is FB?
[13:26]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	Torley, is there an official policy on research projects looking at what happens in SL?
[13:26]	Torley Linden:	Hm, I remember when we had a way to search groups and sort by size, that would've been one non-representative, but a possible way to see various subcultures — at least people who chose to join those groups. There were more hobos than I expected!
[13:26]	yoshiko Fazuku:	nathan i ment
[13:26]	Arawn Spitteler	recently got rerouted to a welcome area in Zindra, but tragicaly wasn't a kid avatar
[13:26]	Nathan Adored:	hello yoshiko
[13:26]	Xaria Mistwallow:	http://pietvree.punt.nl/upload/Pino.jpg
[13:26]	Summer Seale:	lol arawn!
[13:26]	Torley Linden:	WolfBaginski, yes, there was a form that needed to be signed. Not sure about now, Claudia Linden would know more about that.
[13:27]	Torley Linden:	Some people were very careful about their privacy and didn't want to be guinea pigs, so social scientists and whatnot need to be mindful!
[13:27]	Nathan Adored:	I actually got shunted to an aAdult sim once when the sim I was on went down.... and I wWAS a kid av. I frantcially TPed home as fast as I could get to the approprate item on th drop down menu
[13:27]	xstorm Radek:	lol
[13:27]	Pim Peccable	must return to work
[13:27]	Summer Seale:	yea they really have to fix re-routes. 1) should be mature area, and 2) should be understoodt hat some people get sent there by mistake.
[13:27]	Pim Peccable:	happy day all!
[13:27]	Arawn Spitteler:	<ctrl><shft>h
[13:27]	Xaria Mistwallow:	have fun pim!
[13:28]	blogHUD Messenger:	Your image post has arrived at blogHUD.com []: see http://bloghud.com/id/37668
[13:28]	xstorm Radek:	send them to some of the griefing groups we have
[13:28]	xstorm Radek:	they will love to test them
[13:28]	Nathan Adored:	Well, I know it's theoretically safe for a kid av to be in at least some Adult sims, but I wasn't taking any chances. LOL
[13:28]	Summer Seale:	i was modeling a product once and i was stark naked. Q went down, i relogged and got sent to a PG area (i think korea or something) and could barely tp out in time and still got yelled at.
[13:28]	Arawn Spitteler:	Welcome Area should be safe enough
[13:28]	Summer Seale:	i was kinda upset.
[13:28]	Summer Seale:	to say the least.
[13:28]	Thriller Dancer:	Say 'on' or 'off'to turn me on or off, or 'help' for more commands
[13:29]	Summer Seale:	and horribly embarrased.
[13:29]	Nathan Adored:	I know the feeling. That happened to me on one of the OpenSim grids I go to regularly.
[13:29]	Summer Seale:	and it wasn't my fault!
[13:29]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot	nods: "I've picked up a few things from my brother, who is a statistician. His advice: lie like hell. If the survey design can't cope with lies, you don't want to trust them anyway."
[13:29]	Nathan Adored:	Sans the "yelled at" part, mind you
[13:29]	Vorg Bigbear:	Well thanks for your help all and take care
[13:29]	Vorg Bigbear:	Waves
[13:29]	Summer Seale:	oh i got yelled at by a mentor
[13:29]	Xaria Mistwallow:	lol
[13:29]	xstorm Radek:	if you have on a kid avatar you must watch out for some crazys in sl
[13:29]	Ginchen Georgia:	be well all *smiles and waves*... byeee
[13:29]	yoshiko Fazuku:	i wanted to offere a sugestion on sim rateings
[13:29]	xstorm Radek:	the rest are juet insane
[13:29]	Summer Seale:	but yea that sorta thing has to be fixed.
[13:29]	Arawn Spitteler:	Those who get worked up about Child Porn, should regard the age at which we're first naked before strangers
[13:29]	yoshiko Fazuku:	in that rateing sould not be sim wide
[13:29]	Nathan Adored:	yup
[13:30]	blogHUD Messenger:	Your image post has arrived at blogHUD.com []: see http://bloghud.com/id/37670
[13:30]	yoshiko Fazuku:	but be parcel specific instead
[13:30]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot	hands Arawn another can of worms and a can-opener.
[13:30]	Arawn Spitteler:	Parcel Owners should be able to choose more restrictive ratings
[13:30]	Xaria Mistwallow:	its not the problem that people like to become young again, its the problem taking advantage of kid avi's
[13:30]	yoshiko Fazuku:	becuse most sims are rented out broken up
[13:30]	Xaria Mistwallow:	hey mojito!
[13:30]	Summer Seale:	well i'm never a kid so....i don't have that problem.
[13:30]	Summer Seale:	thank god. =)
[13:31]	xstorm Radek:	well sim owners need more control on mainland sims
[13:31]	Aargle Zymurgy:	first time I met a kid av, I wasn't sure what to make of it. I was new to SL and didn't know about the various RP type characters.
[13:31]	Summer Seale:	yummy grass
[13:31]	Nathan Adored:	And, there is a huuuuge difference between Child Porn (eeeegdssss...! OO) and..... merely being naked. Too many ppl have gotten in trouble IRL for sending a picure of their baby in the bathtub into the developers and someone reporting it. Oo
[13:31]	yoshiko Fazuku:	main reason being that adult sim land owners are gougeing people on the price of land for asult sims
[13:31]	Xaria Mistwallow:	its not just towards residents that pose as kid, its also running around with kid avi's causing trouble
[13:31]	Torley Linden:	Don't open a can of worms unless you can eat them! ;)
[13:31]	yoshiko Fazuku:	adult i ment
[13:31]	Xaria Mistwallow:	rather go fishing with wurms torley!
[13:31]	Xaria Mistwallow:	=)
[13:31]	Nathan Adored:	Worms are good for fishing, tho
[13:31]	Summer Seale:	i don't eat worms. i'm a vegetarian
[13:31]	Nathan Adored:	jynx
[13:32]	Torley Linden:	Alas, it's too easy to misinterpret text. But many people understandably are too shy or don't want to communicate on voice, or it's impractical in-person (where body language may help convey a meaning). Thus, avatars continue to sensorily evolve...
[13:32]	yoshiko Fazuku:	and it wpould clear up a lot of issues with ratring being corect for the use of the land
[13:32]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	I have to live with my country's laws and cops, and I am very happy that SL is strict about kid AVs and "adult" areas.
[13:32]	Mojito Sorbet:	Some people can not use voice because of th enoise
[13:32]	Torley Linden:	I look at some of these discussion threads that spiral out of control, and it's a shame when someone posts a hostile reply without having *really* read what came before.
[13:32]	Summer Seale:	actually that reminds me, i have to reinstall so my voice can be turned on again
[13:32]	Arawn Spitteler	should like to give that Martin Luthor fellow a piece of his own mind: Where's that Diet of Wyrms?
[13:32]	xstorm Radek:	our group owns trendone and the sun and land settings are messed up but do to its mainland i have to sit on a ticket when all i need to do is just move the day time slider and save it
[13:33]	Mojito Sorbet:	Luther. Luthor was Superman's nemisis
[13:33]	d like	sim owners free to exclude those countries
[13:33]	Xaria Mistwallow:	people like to misunderstand things torley, that way they can start a fight again for no good reason.
[13:33]	Nathan Adored:	Well, a lot of kid-avs can take care of themselves.... There IS a distrubring tendancy of some ppl trying to trick kid-avs into someting objectionable just so they can AR them. Offering them a TP to an adult place without telling them its an adult place, say.
[13:33]	Torley Linden:	Mojito, and some (like myself) find voice distracts from immersion... like if you're in a forest region and someone's background has a honking bus.
[13:33]	Xaria Mistwallow:	its just in the human nature
[13:33]	Summer Seale:	well i used to DJ like 16 hours a day
[13:33]	Summer Seale:	but after like 6 months of it i stopped. i burned out on chatting and voice for good
[13:34]	Summer Seale:	but i like tohave it on to hear others sometimes
[13:34]	Summer Seale:	some people *only* use voice now
[13:34]	Xaria Mistwallow:	people can not go without fighting unless you find them in a grave
[13:34]	Aargle Zymurgy:	I tend to use voice primarily to work on projects with one of my business partners.
[13:34]	Mojito Sorbet:	Voice is essential in language courses though
[13:34]	Torley Linden:	At least you can try it, see how it goes for you... back before we had voice in SL I had a hard time for awhile because I developed inflammation of my wrists, was tough to type.
[13:34]	Xaria Mistwallow:	may sound morbit, but unfortunately true
[13:34]	Aargle Zymurgy:	it's MUCH quicker when you're doing building and coding
[13:34]	Arawn Spitteler:	For the only true peace, says Solomon, go listen to Anubis
[13:34]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	Only time I went near the Ahern infohub there was a screaming row going on in voice, and the traffic clogged my internet cinnection.
[13:34]	Torley Linden:	Keeping those hands free! =)
[13:34]	xstorm Radek:	i have problems typing do to my CIDP
[13:35]	yoshiko Fazuku:	i dont use voice in order to better hide my RL idenity
[13:35]	Xaria Mistwallow:	personally i like to create things instead of destroy
[13:35]	yoshiko Fazuku:	and my linux machine dosent work properly with it at the moment
[13:35]	Torley Linden:	Here's to creation!
[13:35]	Phase Cydrome:	we use voice, just not the second life one, external application as its higher quality, and does not fail every 2 minutes
[13:35]	Xaria Mistwallow:	cheers!
[13:35]	Summer Seale:	i used voice just fine. =)
[13:35]	xstorm Radek:	my hands can not keep moving for long with out them stopping on me
[13:35]	Summer Seale:	i just haven't really chatted in voice in a long time
[13:35]	Torley Linden:	Phase, I'm curious which one you use?
[13:35]	Nathan Adored:	will tere be a newer, better version of voice provided withSL2?
[13:35]	Aargle Zymurgy:	unfortunately, too few voice users will do headphones
[13:36]	Summer Seale:	i gotta run guys. was nice meeting you all!
[13:36]	Xaria Mistwallow:	teamspeak is a good one
[13:36]	Mojito Sorbet:	Headphones is the only way to do voice. Without it you lose the spatial cues.
[13:36]	Torley Linden:	I don't know, Nathan. What are you hoping for in a newer, better version? :)
[13:36]	Aargle Zymurgy:	nothing more aggravating than hearing yourself near full-volume and echoing about a second late
[13:36]	Summer Seale:	good to see you again torley. been a loooong time.
[13:36]	Xaria Mistwallow:	low lag and doesnt fail
[13:36]	Nathan Adored:	l8r Summer
[13:36]	Summer Seale:	i'm sorry it's been so long
[13:36]	Torley Linden:	You too Summer! Take care.
[13:36]	Xaria Mistwallow:	ventrillo is a good one as well
[13:36]	Summer Seale:	keep out some fresh grass for me!
[13:36]	Phase Cydrome:	team speak, team talk, gtalk.. msn, take your pick..... a cup and a bit of string at a pinch... would be more stable...
[13:36]	Summer Seale:	hehe
[13:36]	Torley Linden:	Hehe.
[13:36]	Xaria Mistwallow:	skype + SL doesnt make all that good of a combination tho
[13:36]	Summer Seale:	/protal QarlLinden
[13:36]	Summer Seale:	/portal QarlLinden
[13:36]	Arawn Spitteler	wants to drive a bus, into the Antarctic, so he can beep the horn, while the crazies are using Voice
[13:37]	Mojito Sorbet:	Teamspeak is used by IVAO, the online airline organization. Lots of poeple flying Msft Flight Sim together.
[13:37]	Xaria Mistwallow:	skype and SL combination tends to lag a lot
[13:37]	Torley Linden:	Online airlines are really fascinating to me, self-organization and dedication like that, and planning all those flight schedules!
[13:37]	Phase Cydrome:	peopel have done some very good things with voice, take the tonight show with paisly beeb or even the "who wants to be a millionaire show"
[13:37]	Mojito Sorbet:	Oh yeah. And VERY realistic. Those poeple know what they are doing
[13:37]	Phase Cydrome:	people too
[13:38]	Nguyen Rebane:	hello
[13:38]	Torley Linden:	I've seen some of those virtual airlines sites, and there's an incredible amount of dedication. I admire that passion, and Mojito, yeah, how some of them configure their workspaces to resemble actual cockpits. Amazing.
[13:38]	xstorm Radek:	SL Voice works great it only has 3 small problems with it
[13:38]	Torley Linden:	I enjoyed being on Paisley's show very much!
[13:38]	Mojito Sorbet:	And the people doing the ATC role are pretty good too.
[13:38]	Arawn Spitteler:	How many are Pilots?
[13:38]	Phase Cydrome:	/raises hand
[13:38]	Mojito Sorbet:	The only difference is that Teamspeak sounds BETTER than RL airplane radios
[13:38]	Nathan Adored:	heh
[13:38]	xstorm Radek:	lol
[13:38]	Xaria Mistwallow:	lol, much better mojito
[13:39]	Torley Linden:	Are any of you familiar with Brian Eno? He has some very fascinating ideas about working with sound.
[13:39]	Mojito Sorbet:	I have a pilot's license, buyt it does not allow me to fly the Airbus I do online. :)
[13:39]	Arawn Spitteler	imagines a voice degradation program, for virtual airliners
[13:39]	Nathan Adored:	I have some of his music, yeah
[13:39]	Aargle Zymurgy:	fascinating? in what way?
[13:39]	Torley Linden:	He even exhibited in Second Life before, 77 Million Paintings was the name.
[13:39]	Xaria Mistwallow:	problem is, not everyone uses a headset, which often causes problems
[13:39]	Torley Linden:	Aargle, many! But to pick one, generative music.
[13:39]	Mojito Sorbet:	You really should use a noise-canceling microphone
[13:39]	Nathan Adored:	is there a place to get USB headsets?
[13:39]	Xaria Mistwallow:	telling them doesnt work simply because they are to stubborn to listen to good advice
[13:39]	Phase Cydrome:	or mute as we call it
[13:39]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	I used to spend a lot of time with Flight Simulator. But with dial-up internet it wasn't practical to work live with other people.
[13:39]	Phase Cydrome:	lol
[13:40]	Mojito Sorbet:	The Logitech G35 USB headset is excellent by the way
[13:40]	Aargle Zymurgy:	oh, gotcha.... sound in the sense of "sound generation"
[13:40]	Xaria Mistwallow:	shops should only sell headsets, not loose mics'
[13:40]	Torley Linden:	I like when places in Second Life have environmental sound that goes beyond a single sound loop — there are various ones that play at shifting intervals to make them sound more "alive".
[13:40]	Xaria Mistwallow:	neither those cheap junk things, also cause problems
[13:40]	Phase Cydrome:	when are they bringing SL to the IPOD Touch, and what happened to the MSN style SLim application ?
[13:40]	Torley Linden:	I have this amazing program called Speakerphone, it can make your normal through-the-mic voice sound like it's an old telephone, a staticky radio, or VHS tape.
[13:40]	Mojito Sorbet:	Only problme wiht the G35 is the "surround sound" effect is done in software in the driver, which only works on Windows
[13:41]	Xaria Mistwallow:	not happening for some time phase
[13:41]	Nathan Adored:	the mic I use for voice is a small tabletop USB device meant to be used a a VoIP spekerphone
[13:41]	Aargle Zymurgy:	Torley, yes... I've heard a few that go by time of day, too.
[13:41]	Torley Linden:	That I don't know, Phase. Haven't heard anything new about SLim recently.
[13:41]	Xaria Mistwallow:	i have the G15 and G9 mojito
[13:41]	Nathan Adored:	troble is, everyone then hears my computer's fan, bewcause its sitting on top of the computer.
[13:41]	Torley Linden:	Aargle, oh those are brilliant! Along with the streetlights that only turn on at night. I LOVE that.
[13:41]	Xaria Mistwallow:	no problems so far, unless its fading of letters etc
[13:41]	Mojito Sorbet:	There IS a text-only SL client with voice, ya know...
[13:41]	Torley Linden:	It's like, "Twilight... and crickets!"
[13:41]	Torley Linden:	Which one are you referring to, Mojito?
[13:41]	Xaria Mistwallow:	was thinking of getting the new G headset
[13:41]	Mojito Sorbet:	Radegast
[13:42]	Phase Cydrome:	yes... URL pls
[13:42]	Mojito Sorbet:	It does local chat type voice, not proivate calls like SLim
[13:42]	Mojito Sorbet:	http://www.radegastclient.org I think
[13:42]	Torley Linden:	That's new to me. *looks it up*
[13:42]	Phase Cydrome:	so you appear in world, though you cant see it
[13:42]	Phase Cydrome:	and can only talk to the people near you
[13:42]	Aargle Zymurgy:	shame is, I haven't yet scripted anything like that myself. probably should, but I got lazy and just bought a few environmental things
[13:42]	Mojito Sorbet:	The private call stuff will go in eventually. I know, because I wrote it
[13:42]	Xaria Mistwallow:	lol, couldnt you wait a second before taking a picture torley? =P
[13:42]	xstorm Radek:	i think they need to stick blondin in this meeting too
[13:43]	Nathan Adored:	lol
[13:43]	Xaria Mistwallow:	looking rather balt on that one!
[13:43]	Torley Linden:	Ooh you're a contributor! Very cool, Mojito.
[13:43]	Mojito Sorbet:	I didnt write Radegast. Just the voice part, and the text-to-speech part
[13:43]	Torley Linden:	Oh sorry to have been premature. XD
[13:43]	Xaria Mistwallow:	=P
[13:43]	Mojito Sorbet:	Oh, it does speech-to-text too, on WIndows
[13:43]	Phase Cydrome:	happens...
[13:43]	xstorm Radek:	some one TP blondin linden in
[13:43]	Torley Linden:	I remember the first time I heard TTS, was on an Amiga. And also, the early Soundblasters.
[13:44]	Aargle Zymurgy:	ooh! ooh! another Amiga owner!
[13:44]	Aargle Zymurgy:	I still have mine. :-)
[13:44]	Nathan Adored:	Ah yes, I still miss my Amiga1200....
[13:44]	Phase Cydrome:	speach to text, like "Say: Hello friends" and app replies " Confirmed shutting down computer deleting C drive "
[13:44]	Phase Cydrome:	lol
[13:44]	Mojito Sorbet:	I bought several after market voices for it. Makes a big difference
[13:44]	Nathan Adored:	Dern thing died on e a year or so ago.... but it lasted and lasted and lasted
[13:44]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi	has a CD32 still.
[13:44]	Mojito Sorbet:	http://www.cepstral.com
[13:44]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	I remember struggling with it. The early stuff was built on the assumption that everyone was American.
[13:44]	Aargle Zymurgy:	paid over $700 for my first hard-drive on that... a whopping 110M
[13:44]	Phase Cydrome:	you mean they're not ?
[13:44]	Xaria Mistwallow:	my amiga was destroyed thanks to someone that called himself a 'friend'
[13:45]	Mojito Sorbet:	The Radegast voice thing will match the voice gender to the avatar gender.
[13:45]	Nathan Adored:	ouch
[13:45]	Xaria Mistwallow:	indeed ouch
[13:45]	Xaria Mistwallow:	he had ouch as well then :p
[13:45]	Torley Linden:	It's crazy, and now 2TB... TWO FREAKIN' TERABYTES... of hard drive space is dropping to sub-$140 U.S., even lower with special sales!
[13:45]	Mojito Sorbet:	Yeah, but you cant put your SL cache on it...
[13:45]	Aargle Zymurgy:	yeah.... I just picked up a 1TB drive not all that long ago and it's already seeming dated.
[13:46]	Phase Cydrome:	you would need to take a small holiday to defrag a drive at that size, at that capacity
[13:46]	Xaria Mistwallow:	and xstorm is back to hunting lindens i see =P
[13:46]	Nathan Adored:	Well, on a different note.... someone was telling me recentlt about how some sim owners don't seem to understand the rules on what constitutes PG, or Mature, or whatnot, read wrong things into it, and then bang ppl over the head with the TOS .
[13:46]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	About the only practical way to backup a1 TB drive is another 1 TB drive.
[13:46]	Phase Cydrome:	lol
[13:47]	Nathan Adored:	For instance, some don't allow kid-avs on a PG sim, because they think somehow that they don't belong on a PG sim. oO
[13:47]	Arawn Spitteler:	PG means that breasts are not presentable to small children, while Adult is photographically presentable
[13:47]	Xaria Mistwallow:	think you need to ask blondin on that one
[13:47]	Aargle Zymurgy:	Wolf, that's correct.
[13:47]	Gnome Inkpen:	I use floppy disks to backup my 1TB drive.
[13:47]	Aargle Zymurgy:	it's why I got that drive.
[13:47]	Gnome Inkpen:	It works well.
[13:47]	Mojito Sorbet:	There are some NAS enclosures you can plug thiose 1TB drives into, and it will RAID them
[13:47]	Xaria Mistwallow:	blondin is the one that can tell you the best
[13:47]	Nathan Adored:	Others, so I'm told, think kid-avs don't beloing on a Mature sim. oO
[13:47]	Torley Linden:	On that note, Nathan, we're planning to have further clarifications about the maturity ratings... I can't disclose what those are going to be yet... but I will say "PG" isn't a universal term.
[13:47]	yoshiko Fazuku:	yes they laim that kid av's are only for [pervs
[13:47]	yoshiko Fazuku:	claim iment
[13:48]	Xaria Mistwallow:	i beg the differ yos
[13:48]	Phase Cydrome:	it will get to a point where we just need a boot drive to get dos, and then a bank of 1TB usb pen drives
[13:48]	Mojito Sorbet:	The rating system used in Europe for movies might be clearer. They attach age numbers.
[13:48]	Xaria Mistwallow:	lots of people like to have their kid years back
[13:48]	Mojito Sorbet:	But the issue here is one more of content.
[13:48]	Arawn Spitteler:	People would still be confused by Ab-Sex
[13:48]	Xaria Mistwallow:	only way they really can get that is by becoming a child here
[13:48]	Xaria Mistwallow:	for sex, yes, thats wrong
[13:48]	Nathan Adored:	Yeah, many countries don't have a "PG rating" ontheir movies, they use a different erm. So, I mention to someone about someting being like in a PG movie and they're like "Huh? PG? Wazzat?"
[13:48]	Mojito Sorbet:	For example, people playing violent combat games may not want any sex present.
[13:49]	Mojito Sorbet:	But both get rated the same by the Movie ratings
[13:49]	Xaria Mistwallow:	not in the netherlands mojito :p
[13:49]	Phase Cydrome:	big brother - the man ... take your pick... your choices are never your own
[13:49]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	I'm wary of getting too obviously linked to movie system or rating. They;re often manipulated by the film companies becauseof the age of the big audience.
[13:49]	Xaria Mistwallow:	the rating system here is more clearly about what it is
[13:49]	Nathan Adored:	Heck, several of the kid-av sims I frequent are Mature. But there are also kid-av oriented sims that are PG. The child-information center one for instance
[13:49]	Mojito Sorbet:	Now on DirecTV at least, they have a bunch of letter codes for exactly what is in it. Violence, language, nuidity, etc
[13:49]	Xaria Mistwallow:	a horror movie gets a spider as logo for example
[13:50]	yoshiko Fazuku:	how about simply haveing a set of check boxes that tell you what to expect in the sim
[13:50]	Xaria Mistwallow:	sex movie gets 4 feet, as if they were...
[13:50]	Torley Linden:	Tough thing about any standard that gets adopted is it becomes very hard, for reasons both positive and negative and in-between, to dislodge or change later.
[13:50]	Xaria Mistwallow:	well you know
[13:50]	yoshiko Fazuku:	like nudity or violance or what ever
[13:50]	Phase Cydrome:	I was removed from Franks ( ejected ) all because I looked like the grim reaper.
[13:50]	Xaria Mistwallow:	drugs gets a siringe
[13:50]	Xaria Mistwallow:	etc
[13:50]	Xaria Mistwallow:	laws here are very clear on such things
[13:50]	Mojito Sorbet:	Was your grim reaper in formal clothes? They will throw you out if not
[13:50]	Arawn Spitteler:	What ws Frank's doing?
[13:51]	Phase Cydrome:	well it was as formal as I thought he would look
[13:51]	Torley Linden:	yoshiko, relating to last week's conversation, one of the original "covenant" ideas was to clearly show them before you teleported somewhere defined as "restricted"... it was along the lines of a "passport" but didn't work out.
[13:51]	Phase Cydrome:	lol
[13:51]	Mojito Sorbet:	Franks is a formal dancehall, with a dress code
[13:51]	yoshiko Fazuku:	nudity does not = sex in my opinion
[13:51]	Zamantha Carter:	Sorry everyone. Haveto run and attend a chicken in te oven
[13:51]	Zamantha Carter:	Have a wonderful week :)
[13:51]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	If I want kinky birtual furry sex, I go to an old-style text multi-plyer game. The graphics are better.
[13:51]	Nathan Adored:	Would be useful to also link to a page somewhere listing the last known statistics as to how many kid avs are active in SL, how many furries, etc.... if one is known.
[13:52]	Xaria Mistwallow:	think people just need to set things in their preferances
[13:52]	Phase Cydrome:	this one
[13:52]	Xaria Mistwallow:	much simpler and doesnt cause problems as much
[13:52]	Xaria Mistwallow:	can pre define your wishes then
[13:52]	Xaria Mistwallow:	besides... why use a full search engine when you can turn off mature and adult setting?
[13:53]	Torley Linden:	While I don't think Linden Lab could do that, Nathan, I'd like to see if any community leaders/statisticians step up and provide those services. I know some of the furry communities have been very awesome at self-documenting their culture and they'd know it the best.
[13:53]	Xaria Mistwallow:	its not SL yoshiko, but your own ideas =)
[13:53]	Nathan Adored:	Basically, if someone thinks kid-avs don't beloong on a PG sim, prexumably because they think they're all there for.... perverted reasons, let them look at the demographics of what kid-avs are actually DOING, and just how many there actually ARE. Might shock some of these ppl out of their mistaken belifs about them.
[13:54]	Nathan Adored:	Oh, I just mean... provide the information tfor those that could use it.
[13:54]	Xaria Mistwallow:	do you actually know what is most commen related to 'sex'? furriy avitars
[13:54]	Xaria Mistwallow:	not human avitars
[13:54]	Nathan Adored:	Yeah, I know about that one too.
[13:54]	Torley Linden:	Enigma Bombay I presume you have seniority here!
[13:54]	Torley Linden:	Holy moly it's been awhile!
[13:54]	Enigma Bombay:	lol Torley, I'm also Beryl Greenacre. :)
[13:54]	Enigma Bombay:	haha yes :)
[13:55]	Xaria Mistwallow:	go to a furry sim and you most likely see the most run around with their parts attached and shown
[13:55]	Torley Linden:	:D
[13:55]	yoshiko Fazuku:	btw torley the london, UK sim dosent alow child avs and its a dumping ground for noobs when they first rez
[13:55]	Enigma Bombay:	I remember when Torley started in SL... ;)
[13:55]	Xaria Mistwallow:	for human avi;s you got more clear rules to make them at least invisible or detach them
[13:55]	Mojito Sorbet:	ha ha "Dumping Ground for noobs" = "InfoHub"
[13:55]	Torley Linden:	Hahaha. Hardly anyone recalls that now, Enigma.
[13:55]	Nathan Adored:	And there are a lot of shops on he UK sim....
[13:55]	Torley Linden:	I gotta blog about Infohubs too, soon.
[13:55]	Xaria Mistwallow:	the UK has no say over SL :p
[13:56]	Enigma Bombay:	Oh man, I was at Ahern a couple nights ago... not fun :(
[13:56]	Xaria Mistwallow:	servers are in the US and from what i understood soon in the netherlands
[13:56]	Mojito Sorbet:	Griefer magnets
[13:56]	Torley Linden:	"London England UK"? I don't know. Isn't that Resident-owned?
[13:56]	Xaria Mistwallow:	so the UK has no say what so ever :p
[13:56]	Enigma Bombay:	People used to be friendly and helpful at the Welcome Areas.
[13:56]	Adamburp Adamczyk:	hey, you pays yer money,m you tkes your choices
[13:56]	Nathan Adored:	I have literally heard of kid-avs showing up there to buy stuff... and being ejected out of the sim just because they're kid avs. "Gee, I was only here to buy some textures..."
[13:56]	Torley Linden:	The upside of a welcome area... you know people are going to be there. Alas, that's attractive for the same reasons to griefers. :(
[13:56]	yoshiko Fazuku:	they have this sign that says THIS IS A PG SIM ...NO CHIlD LKE AVATARS
[13:56]	Phase Cydrome:	the answer is to lock out avatars by height. sim owners can decide avatar hight, Child, Adult, then change the hight settings to have boundrys instead of a slide bar. that way there is no way out of a child avatar being detected from the sim settings.
[13:57]	Mojito Sorbet:	Also, they will largely be relatively inexperienced
[13:57]	yoshiko Fazuku:	so the people coming in thin all pg sims dont alow child av's
[13:57]	Xaria Mistwallow:	child avitars are forbidden to go to such sims anyways, its in the ToS
[13:57]	Enigma Bombay:	Having a kid avatar is fine, it's what the kid avs do... owning a club, I've had kid avs IM me or my manager and ask if they could come in since they were "underage"... I won't play that game, I say they are welcome but they need to act like an adult.
[13:57]	Rubi Hawker:	lcoking someone out by height isnt very fair however?
[13:57]	Xaria Mistwallow:	or... think it was at least
[13:57]	Xaria Mistwallow:	torley?
[13:57]	Rubi Hawker:	i have several friends who have very short AV's, but are not child avatars
[13:57]	Torley Linden:	Phase, I've heard that one come up many times. But wait a minute, there are adult tinies!
[13:58]	Phase Cydrome:	point taken.. was a speculation suggestion type thing
[13:58]	Nathan Adored:	Yeah, tat IS a problem: Let's not vectore an old prejeduce to new ppl....
[13:58]	Torley Linden:	Xaria, clarify?
[13:58]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	And what about the Tinies.
[13:58]	yoshiko Fazuku:	but you can run around there in a short bunneh av and use a child ao and talk like a 3 year old and no one blinks an eye
[13:58]	Aargle Zymurgy	loves tinies
[13:58]	Xaria Mistwallow:	@ Torley: [13:57] Xaria Mistwallow: child avitars are forbidden to go to such sims anyways, its in the ToS
[13:58]	Adamburp Adamczyk:	yeah us oompa loompas too
[13:58]	Nathan Adored:	I saw a thing online once about a guy who showed up as a short, space-alien at a sim... and got ejected because the simoner wasn't allowing kid-avs and he didn't want to take any chances that that space alien might, possibly be a kid-av just by his hight.
[13:59]	Mojito Sorbet:	6ft tall teenagers however...
[13:59]	Torley Linden:	Xaria, still unclear what you mean by "such sims".
[13:59]	Xaria Mistwallow:	yoshiko, what do you understand under child avitars? just small avitars like adam is using now? or also tinies?
[13:59]	Nathan Adored:	It was just.... stupid and made the simowner a laughingstock
[13:59]	Torley Linden:	For every generalization there's a counterpoint... or an Oompa Loompa!
[13:59]	Phase Cydrome	imagines Stilt sales going up this year... lol
[13:59]	Adamburp Adamczyk:	xaria, exactly
[13:59]	Xaria Mistwallow:	such sims = adult/sex sims
[13:59]	Torley Linden:	Nathan, that made it all over Reddit and Digg, I think.
[13:59]	yoshiko Fazuku:	well a child avatar in my opinion is some one rp'ing as a child
[14:00]	Nathan Adored:	But, if there genuinely IS some kind of belief that "PG means no kid-avs," that needs to be squelched in the docs
[14:00]	Xaria Mistwallow:	i have a feeling this is more against tiny avitars in general, not just real child avi's
[14:00]	Mojito Sorbet:	There is confusion between the age of the account holder and the apparent age of the avatar.
[14:00]	Xaria Mistwallow:	then i am mistaken :p
[14:00]	Xaria Mistwallow:	luckaly
[14:00]	Adamburp Adamczyk:	even smaller now..........
[14:00]	yoshiko Fazuku:	but i cant for the life of me figure out what theat realy means and why its such a bad thing
[14:00]	Xaria Mistwallow:	so why do you hate child avi's so much?
[14:00]	Enigma Bombay:	It's such a touchy business regulating adults in roleplay; I prefer to tell people the naughty bits must be covered, eject anyone who gets nasty or angry with others, and let everyone else do as they please.
[14:00]	Phase Cydrome:	the smallest avatar I have is 'the brain' from pinky and the brain
[14:01]	Xaria Mistwallow:	isnt it a part of creativity?
[14:01]	yoshiko Fazuku:	me hate child av's?
[14:01]	Torley Linden:	Xaria, http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Clarification_of_policy_disallowing_ageplay  :)
[14:01]	Mojito Sorbet:	Think of it like this. Linden makes big claims for the beneficial effects of "presence" on inworld meetings. Well, that goes both ways. Having an apparent 6-year old around can make you feel funny
[14:01]	yoshiko Fazuku:	i have made no such statement
[14:01]	Nathan Adored:	Yeah, one should not eject someone based on someting they may or may not be doing on Some Other Sim if there's no sign they're gfoing to be doing such things on YOUR sim
[14:01]	Xaria Mistwallow:	Note: Merely having a childlike avatar does not violate this policy. It is not our intent to banish childlike avatars in and of themselves.
[14:01]	Torley Linden:	Adamburp, you have some hilarious avatars here.
[14:01]	Xaria Mistwallow:	a quote from the ToS
[14:01]	Xaria Mistwallow:	thanks torley
[14:01]	Torley Linden:	A profound and at times chilling observation, Mojito.
[14:01]	yoshiko Fazuku:	i ma in suport of nathan on the strangeness of some sims issues with it
[14:01]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	Mojito, I concur. I've had that uneasy feeling.
[14:02]	Xaria Mistwallow:	clearly NOT forbidden to have them
[14:02]	Adamburp Adamczyk:	sorry torley, jsut backing up the point re height of avatars
[14:02]	Torley Linden:	Toilet paper too? LOL.
[14:02]	Xaria Mistwallow:	If you are in doubt as to whether an activity may be interpreted as ageplay, we request you err on the side of caution and desist. Please note that some countries' laws may impose penalties for graphics, drawings, or anime that resemble child pornography, even where no children have been involved.
[14:02]	Mojito Sorbet:	The "presence" effect Linden points to is very real. And I think it may be ayt the core of this issue.
[14:02]	Enigma Bombay:	Some sims go to great lengths to control their environment; I suppose if they are paying the tier, it's up to them as this is all privately owned.
[14:02]	Torley Linden:	Well, it's been fun everyone, but to rhyme, I must run. Or more accurately, teleport onwards to further work. Thanks for hanging out with me!
[14:02]	Nathan Adored:	There was a whole episode of the Milk and Kookies show (a sort of in-wolrd podcast thingy of and about and by the kid-av community)
[14:02]	Xaria Mistwallow:	so only if there is a real child involved, LL can do something. as i understand it correctly
[14:02]	Nathan Adored:	about this issue
[14:03]	Xaria Mistwallow:	thanks for having us torley!
[14:03]	Xaria Mistwallow:	was fun again!
[14:03]	Gnome Inkpen:	FRIENDLY GOODBIES!
[14:03]	Torley Linden:	Bye-bye for now and hope to see you next week, same time, same place and all that jazz! *guitar riff*
[14:03]	Xaria Mistwallow:	lol adam
[14:03]	Enigma Bombay:	nice to see you, Torley :)
[14:03]	Adamburp Adamczyk:	toley can i have your bear?
[14:03]	Torley Linden:	MOST FRIENDLY GOODBYEZZZZZ!!!!
[14:03]	Xaria Mistwallow:	say hi to the team for me!
[14:03]	Nathan Adored:	In fact, they talkeda ll about that UK sim thing on it. It was some weeks back tho.... and I don't remember which episode it was
[14:03]	Niky Zenovka:	byes
[14:03]	Xaria Mistwallow:	friendly bye byes!
[14:03]	Rubi Hawker:	bye <3 (bye <3)

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