Doc Team/2010-02-03

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[13:00] Nathan Adored: Hello Jeremy Linden
[13:00] Nathan Adored has pinged you.
[13:00] Jeremy Linden: Hi Nathan. How are you?
[13:01] Nathan Adored: Fine, so far....
[13:01] Jeremy Linden: Expecting bad news?
[13:01] Nathan Adored: Nah, everything is hunky dorey. Knock wood.
[13:01] Jeremy Linden: That's good to hear!
[13:01] Nathan Adored:
[13:02] Nathan Adored: Wonder why there's not more ppl here right now...
[13:02] Jeremy Linden: Well, we didn't hold an office hour last week because all the Lindens were traveling for a big real life event. Maybe people got discouraged?
[13:03] Nathan Adored: There were ppl here, tho... this time last Wedesday....
[13:03] Nathan Adored: And ONE of the Lindens was here...
[13:03] Jeremy Linden: Oh, that's right! Torley would have been here.
[13:03] Nathan Adored: Ah, more ppl are popping in
[13:03] Aargle Zymurgy: sorry I'm late.... unless I'm not.
[13:03] Dedric Mauriac: sorry i'm late. i guess you were all witing for me. :)
[13:04] Aargle Zymurgy: so much fun.... I can re-use all my stale jokes from CG's meetings on a new crowd.
[13:04] Jeremy Linden: Nope, no worries, Aargle. I think this is going to be a pretty low-key office hour. It's just me today :-)
[13:04] Nathan Adored: Where's Torley? oO
[13:04] Dedric Mauriac: in that case, can you send me a bear?
[13:04] Jeremy Linden: Torley and Kate are training up on some new blog software, and Jon's busy as usual. We're an active bunch.
[13:05] Aargle Zymurgy: busy bees
[13:05] Dedric Mauriac: is this to do with the upcomming forum upgrade?
[13:05] Dedric Mauriac: thanks
[13:05] Nathan Adored: they're going to replace the forum software again? oO
[13:05] Jeremy Linden: *cough* I can neither confirm nor deny--
[13:05] Nathan Adored: LOL
[13:05] Dedric Mauriac: yea, it will use the same software as the blogs, or software by the same company
[13:06] Nathan Adored: Nathan Adored cackles cattily.
[13:06] Aargle Zymurgy: I try to avoid the forums, oddly enough.
[13:06] Aargle Zymurgy: I get sucked in and just lose track of time.
[13:06] Nathan Adored: heh
[13:06] Dedric Mauriac: yea, i don't look at them much myself, but in the old days - that is where everyone lived practically
[13:06] Nathan Adored: Yeah, forums can get as adictive as Second Life. :D
[13:06] Jeremy Linden: Well, they're a great place to stay active in the community while you can't be logged inworld.
[13:07] Aargle Zymurgy: Aargle Zymurgy blinks
[13:07] CPU Core: hi
[13:07] Nathan Adored: COU Core, neat nick! :D
[13:07] Dedric Mauriac: Avatars United seems to be the place to live off-world now
[13:07] Nathan Adored: er.. CPU Core, that is
[13:07] Aargle Zymurgy: personally, if I can be online for forums, I can be in-world
[13:08] Jeremy Linden: Yes! How is everyone liking Avatars United? I set up my account on Monday :-)
[13:08] CPU Core: :)
[13:08] Jeremy Linden: I'm just recalling my days before Linden, when I'd want to do something with SL while I was at work.
[13:08] Aargle Zymurgy: um.....
[13:08] Dedric Mauriac: It needs to expose API's so i can update my status/blog entries
[13:08] Aargle Zymurgy: dang, I'm sounding like a slacker
[13:08] Niky Zenovka: Niky Zenovka waves hello
[13:08] Aargle Zymurgy: but I haven't signed up for that, either
[13:08] Arawn Spitteler: Arawn Spitteler's on Facebook as Aaron Freeman, a rather fat fellow in the church garden: Sion Chickens certainly certify the desire to farm, in world, and other products should likely cause less server lag.
[13:08] Aargle Zymurgy: or a Linden home
[13:09] Nathan Adored: Yeah, I got an account there too. MariAnne McCan started a group for kid-avs there
[13:09] Dedric Mauriac: They need to change that feedback link at the top to redirect people to JIRA
[13:09] Dedric Mauriac: i would have reported a few problems, but i don't want to create yet another account somewhere else
[13:10] Jeremy Linden: Hm. That's good feedback. Unfortunately, I'm not heavily involved in the Avatars United work; mostly I'm interested to hear what you guys think of it as a communication tool and community-builder :-)
[13:10] Nathan Adored: Nathan Adored smiles.
[13:10] CPU Core: i am against it
[13:11] CPU Core: dont like social websites
[13:11] Nathan Adored: why?
[13:11] Nathan Adored: ah
[13:11] CPU Core: and also i dont like the thought of taking things outside of the second life environment
[13:11] CPU Core: if you want to build communities you find ways to do them in a 3d world
[13:11] Dedric Mauriac: I have a list of people having 60 birthdays when i log in. they need to show 4, and then have a link to view more.
[13:12] Nathan Adored: Is there a way for the Avatars United to keep track of our rezdates like it does our birthdates?
[13:12] Arawn Spitteler: Neither Kate nor Jon?
[13:12] Dedric Mauriac: @Nathan - there is an app for that
[13:12] Arawn Spitteler: What's the difference?
[13:12] Dedric Mauriac: SL Blips
[13:12] Dedric Mauriac:
[13:12] Jeremy Linden: I'm not sure, Nathan. I know they're hard at work adding SL-specific features, but I'm not really involved with the project.
[13:13] Jeremy Linden: Sorry Arawn, it's just me today. Kate and Torley are busy with blog software training :-)
[13:13] Arawn Spitteler: Oh, we seem to have blog pages, but I can't seem to post
[13:13] Arawn Spitteler: Do I need that class?
[13:14] Arawn Spitteler: Arawn Spitteler wonders if Jeremy gets out of that class, because he wrote the book
[13:14] Arawn Spitteler has pinged you.
[13:14] Jeremy Linden: Heh. I'm pretty sure they're working on more administrative training. And sadly, I did not write the book :-)
[13:16] Nathan Adored: ty for the link to SL Blips.....
[13:17] Jeremy Linden: Has anyone got any news or feedback on our wiki or other help systems this week?
[13:17] Dedric Mauriac: no problem. seems many people are using it just to prove they are who they say they are.
[13:17] Jeremy Linden: An interesting challenge when you're dealing with virtual personalities :-)
[13:18] Dedric Mauriac: feedback on the wiki? what do you mean?
[13:18] Dedric Mauriac: i've been able to edit it as normal.
[13:19] Aargle Zymurgy: Jeremy, I've got a question for you.... I hope it applies to the context of these meetings....
[13:19] Aargle Zymurgy has pinged you.
[13:19] Jeremy Linden: My team is in a state of transition, but we're largely responsible for the articles in the Linden Lab Official namespace, as well as most of the articles in teh Knowledge Base category.
[13:19] Jeremy Linden: Go for it, Aargle.
[13:20] Arawn Spitteler: If you don't know the proper place, for your question, that's a documentation issue
[13:20] Dedric Mauriac: references to the IP addresses in the old knowledge base are broken. mainly pages that talk about firewall issues and voice servers used to link to them.
[13:20] Aargle Zymurgy: I remember reading some time ago about having new people to SL landing in sims due to out-world links.
[13:20] Aargle Zymurgy: that is, if I'm promoting things in my own sim, but not within the usual SL context....
[13:21] Aargle Zymurgy: that the new arrivals, once accounts created, would continue on to me where I had invited them.
[13:21] Jeremy Linden: Yes, I believe SLurls work in that manner.
[13:21] Aargle Zymurgy: that was was my understand of the future... but this was ages ago.
[13:21] Dedric Mauriac: that's if they sign up through slurl
[13:21] Aargle Zymurgy: so, if I gave a SLURL....
[13:22] Aargle Zymurgy: ah, ok.... I'll have to try that with a machine that doesn't already handle slurls.
[13:22] Arawn Spitteler: I think Refer a Friend is in question?
[13:22] Aargle Zymurgy: though... gah.... every computer in the house has SL on it.
[13:22] Dedric Mauriac: the UU parameter doesn't work with slurls to get bonuses
[13:22] Jeremy Linden: Aargle, here's our wiki article on SLurls:
[13:22] Jeremy Linden: I believe it describes the behavior you're after.
[13:23] Aargle Zymurgy: sweet! thanks jeremy
[13:23] Aargle Zymurgy has pinged you.
[13:23] Arawn Spitteler: I think it's been cancelled, but I don't know if there's historical documentation to say it's something that ever existed
[13:23] Arawn Spitteler: Ever try to find something, that nobody remembers?
[13:23] Nathan Adored:
[13:23] Aargle Zymurgy: ok.... I have something prototyped that I've only seen done in flash before.
[13:24] Dedric Mauriac: @Arawn - i can't remember ...
[13:24] Aargle Zymurgy: and thousands of the apps have been done in flash, but I think I'm the first in SL to try something equivalent.
[13:24] Jeremy Linden: Dedric, which UU parameter are you referring to?
[13:24] Aargle Zymurgy: and I've got the ok from one of the bigger forums to direct people to SL.
[13:25] Arawn Spitteler: It's annoying, when nobody remembers who it was, or where has gone, the person you owe 50,000 Lira to
[13:25] Dedric Mauriac: sorry, just 1 "u" -
[13:25] Dedric Mauriac: the referral bonus
[13:25] Dedric Mauriac: it doesn't work with slurls
[13:25] Arawn Spitteler: I think it's been cancelled
[13:25] Nathan Adored: What's Lira?
[13:25] Dedric Mauriac: JIRA?
[13:25] Jeremy Linden: Italian currency, if I remember?
[13:26] Arawn Spitteler: Strangely, someone I never heard of, before, joined on my referal just before it wsa cancelled
[13:26] Nathan Adored: heh
[13:26] Arawn Spitteler: Italian, like any currency, tends to be worth less than it used to be
[13:26] Dedric Mauriac: the "u" parameter is still included in snapshot emails though
[13:27] Dedric Mauriac: and if you email a snapshot, the dialog says "If your recipient joins SL, you'll get a referral bonus."
[13:27] Arawn Spitteler: That should be straightened out
[13:27] Nathan Adored: Nathan Adored smiles.
[13:27] Jeremy Linden: Eww. That sounds like a... WEB (I think) JIRA waiting to be filed.
[13:27] Dedric Mauriac: yea - it should. the email has 2 links. the logo is the referral bonus, and then there is the slurl (with no bonus)
[13:27] Nathan Adored: Ain't technology wunnerful? :D
[13:28] Jeremy Linden: It is! It's the updating part that's hard.
[13:28] Arawn Spitteler: I expect WEB-814 is still an issue
[13:28] Dedric Mauriac: yea. it's a bit misleading to tell us we can still get bunuses, and then it's hard for the referrer to click the rite link.
[13:28] Jeremy Linden: There are so many little parts to update every time we make a change. It's lucky we have willing Residents to point out when we miss a spot :-)
[13:29] Arawn Spitteler: What Linden Labs wants to do, can be done when someone wants to get around to it but, what Linden Labs needs to get done, might be worked on, when someone wants to get around to it
[13:29] Nathan Adored: :D
[13:30] Dedric Mauriac: i remember that the developers used to volunteer on what they wanted to work on, so the tough stuff never got fixed.
[13:30] Dedric Mauriac: long ago
[13:31] Arawn Spitteler: Oh, that's an old policy, and there's this enourmous backlog, of what they still want to work on
[13:31] Jeremy Linden: "Choose your own work" basically meant "choose from the stuff that needs to get done" by the time I came around. I'm not sure it was ever entirely freeform.
[13:31] Arawn Spitteler: SVC-93 is still regarded as too difficult to address
[13:31] Aargle Zymurgy: Jeremy, thanks for hosting, but I think I need to get back to some scripts. Everyone have a great day.
[13:31] Aargle Zymurgy has pinged you.
[13:32] Jeremy Linden: Thanks for coming!
[13:32] Aargle Zymurgy: and thanks for that info about the SLURL
[13:32] Arawn Spitteler: Someone still needs reserve a couple integers for the correct behaviour, and then someone has to program the correct behaviour.
[13:32] Jeremy Linden: No problem! By the way, the wiki incorporates Google search now, so it should be a lot easier to find articles you're looking for.
[13:32] Dedric Mauriac: i've had problems trying to figure out rotation with child prims before like that.
[13:32] Dedric Mauriac: how about putting google search on the blog as well?
[13:33] Arawn Spitteler: You have to devide by root rotation twice, because someone multiplied, in stead of deviding, and any hacks to get about became supported
[13:33] Nathan Adored: again
[13:34] Dedric Mauriac: argh, rotation confuses me the most
[13:34] Arawn Spitteler: Yeah, we should jira, that we don't lose our logs, when that happens
[13:34] Jeremy Linden: Interesting suggestion about Google on the blogs. I don't have much influence over them, but I could suggest it to Blue :-)
[13:34] Arawn Spitteler: Rotations involve linear algebra, and should be straightened out, to prevent this idiocy being perpetuated by future generations
[13:34] Nathan Adored: I gather SL 2.0 viewer is supposed to be a lot more crashproof....
[13:34] Jeremy Linden: Jeremy Linden never learned how to interpret Quaternions.
[13:34] Nathan Adored: knock wood
[13:35] Jeremy Linden: I can neither confirm nor deny--
[13:35] Dedric Mauriac: i think most of us understand degrees better than quaternions.
[13:35] Arawn Spitteler: The sins of half each angle, and the resulting cosin
[13:35] Arawn Spitteler: System doesn't use degrees, either, but Radians
[13:36] Jeremy Linden: llRot2Euler FTW, if you ask me. I'm not a mathematician or a computer scientist, though.
[13:36] Dedric Mauriac: radians i understand as well, but not this x,y,z,w stuff
[13:36] Arawn Spitteler: XYZW is a way to avoid confusing the computer.
[13:36] Nathan Adored: w?
[13:37] Arawn Spitteler: It might be S
[13:37] Dedric Mauriac: yea, it's ually us converting back and forth with rot/euler because I don't understand how to do the same thing directly to rot
[13:37] Dedric Mauriac: s/w - i don't know. it's just a fourth letter i have no clue about
[13:37] Jeremy Linden: We apparently have a wiki article on quaternions:
[13:37] Jeremy Linden: Much thanks to the Residents who wrote it.
[13:38] Dedric Mauriac: yea, i've read it before and can't make much sense of it.
[13:38] Jeremy Linden: I'll be honest, it looks like a lot of complex math to me. Once I discovered Euler rotations, I was in much better shape.
[13:39] Dedric Mauriac: yep. they sould offer some methods to work with rotations using vectors instead of going through all those hoops to use quantarions
[13:39] Arawn Spitteler: Complex Math isn't so confusing, as long as you remember that negative numbers have square roots too
[13:40] Jeremy Linden: However, I have friends who understand quaternions, and for many applications they can be easier to work with.
[13:40] Arawn Spitteler: I normally keyboard straight in, for simple right angles
[13:40] Dedric Mauriac: how can a negative number have a square root? one of the numbers has to be negative and the other positive to get a negative number. what is the square root of -4 ?
[13:40] Jeremy Linden: Imaginary numbers :-)
[13:41] Arawn Spitteler: 2i
[13:41] Dedric Mauriac: that's just a made up number
[13:41] Arawn Spitteler: At first, the numbers were strictly imaginary, but the nature of the Speed of Light, and related electromagnetic effects made us take notice
[13:42] Nathan Adored: "What is the square root of orange." -- some goofy radio commercial, mocking games shows.
[13:42] Arawn Spitteler: Is that a Florida Orange, or a Clockwork Orange?
[13:43] Dedric Mauriac: Orange you glad to know these things?
[13:43] Nathan Adored: (And they gave an answer in that commercial, too.... but I don't remember what it was... heh...)
[13:43] Dedric Mauriac: 610 nm
[13:44] Dedric Mauriac: 24.698 nm (ultra violet)
[13:44] Arawn Spitteler: Anyone know how many furlongs are in a mile?
[13:44] Dedric Mauriac: 8
[13:44] Nathan Adored: Dunno, but it's one Google away. :D
[13:45] Arawn Spitteler: I use Furlongs to convert miles to kilometers.
[13:45] Dedric Mauriac: i just use math
[13:45] Arawn Spitteler: We've wicked Chat Lag
[13:45] Nathan Adored: yup
[13:45] Dedric Mauriac: Furlong's are for furries
[13:45] Nathan Adored: Nathan Adored gives a great big smile.
[13:45] Nathan Adored: Nathan Adored isn't a furry, but hangs out with them regularly.
[13:46] Arawn Spitteler: Arawn Spitteler imagines brushing the first two hundred meters
[13:46] Dedric Mauriac: Should be called FurrLongs over there
[13:47] Arawn Spitteler: Arawn Spitteler imagines flexy fur, four sims long
[13:47] Jeremy Linden: Heh. That would be awesome for performance.
[13:47] Nathan Adored: yeah, but imagine the lag induced... :D
[13:47] Dedric Mauriac: lol
[13:47] Arawn Spitteler: Actually, it would only be four fifths of a sim
[13:47] Jeremy Linden: Sorry, just nerding out over sims-long flexi megaprims.
[13:47] Arawn Spitteler: Sounds like a good idea for a megaprim
[13:48] Dedric Mauriac: as long as it's just 1 prim, shouldn't be much lag
[13:48] Nathan Adored: yeah, but prim hair tends to be multiple prims
[13:48] Jeremy Linden: Maybe not on the processing side, but it would do bad things to Avatar Rendering Cost. :-)
[13:48] Nathan Adored: Nathan Adored gives a lopsided smile.
[13:49] Jeremy Linden: Nyx did a demo for me once where he wore a 65km megaprim on his head. His ARC went into the tens of thousands.
[13:49] Arawn Spitteler: Arawn Spitteler should show up at Lummerland on Sunday, to see what he's started
[13:49] Nathan Adored: woah
[13:49] Arawn Spitteler: If your ARC goes too high, don't you dissappear?
[13:50] Jeremy Linden: I think that's a known bug, Arawn. Some designers have been making use of it for things like really tiny avatars, but there's an upcoming feature in Viewer 2.0 that will make such exploits less enticing.
[13:51] Arawn Spitteler: I'd regard it as a useful feature; it's much better than Invisiprim
[13:51] Jeremy Linden: That's actually why we're including it. Nyx would be able to go into more detail at his office hours.
[13:51] Dedric Mauriac: alpha skins
[13:52] Dedric Mauriac: nyx was just talking about it before i arrived here
[13:52] Nathan Adored: Jeremy: Oh? They have somthing that's better than the tinytiny approach? What is it? Or is that one of those "If I told you I'd have to kill you" things?
[13:52] Nathan Adored has pinged you.
[13:52] Arawn Spitteler: Arawn Spitteler'd like scriptable skins
[13:52] Nathan Adored: ah
[13:52] Nathan Adored: Will there be more detailed, more sophistacated shapes with 2.0?
[13:52] Jeremy Linden: I'm not sure how much I'm allowed to say. It's a project Nyx's team is working on, so they'd know better.
[13:52] Dedric Mauriac:
[13:53] Dedric Mauriac: they are hoping that 2.0 public beta may have something to try out, no guarentees. hoping it may come out by the end of february - again, no guarentees.
[13:53] Dedric Mauriac: it's more like, what he wasn't saying, is what you could deduce what he was trying to say by not saying it.
[13:53] Nathan Adored: ah, yeah, I've seen some odf those effects pictures in that last link
[13:53] Nathan Adored: *pictured
[13:54] Jeremy Linden: Heh. I know it's frustrating for you guys, but our official company policy on talking about stuff we're not 100% sure of is "it's better to say nothing than to say the wrong thing." Big rumors get started that way :-)
[13:54] Nathan Adored: heh, true
[13:55] Nathan Adored: Nathan Adored wonders how much of SL 2.0's features will propogate out to the OpenSim worlds.
[13:55] Jeremy Linden: Now there's something I know 0% about :-)
[13:55] Nathan Adored: LOL
[13:55] Arawn Spitteler: Open Sims should be open to SL2, which is mostly viewer side
[13:55] Jeremy Linden: I imagine some of the features will find their way into Snowglobe, our open source viewer.
[13:55] Dedric Mauriac: it's just that nothing seems to come from that, and everyone is speculating before anything comes out - or things come out of nowhere that upset people
[13:56] Arawn Spitteler: SVC-2931 was rather upsetting
[13:56] Nathan Adored: Well, I'm looking forward to meshes.
[13:56] Dedric Mauriac: i'm wondering if client-side scripting will allow better integration with xstreet
[13:57] Jeremy Linden: Client-side scripting certainly would be a big deal, even internally for us, for testing :-)
[13:57] Nathan Adored: better integration to xsl in what way?
[13:58] Dedric Mauriac: easier to find things. imagine walking into a store and a client-side hud loads up pictures from the website with videos and demontrations
[13:58] Dedric Mauriac: or finding other stores with similar content
[13:58] Dedric Mauriac: leave a review of the store when you are there
[13:59] Jeremy Linden: Dedric, I think you'll be happy about one particular new feature in Viewer 2. I don't think it'll replace your HUD idea, but it'll certainly make a lot of the things you described much more viable.
[13:59] Nathan Adored: you can only have so many huds, tho... :D
[13:59] Dedric Mauriac: love all this cryptic talk.
[13:59] Nathan Adored: ROFL
[13:59] Jeremy Linden: I'm asking for permission to talk about that one as we speak :-)
[13:59] Nathan Adored: Nathan Adored says "KEWL!" :D
[13:59] CPU Core: i see a future of griefer plugins where they control other peoples avatars to do their griefing for them
[14:00] Nathan Adored: Urk! Oo
[14:00] Dedric Mauriac: sounds kinda like bots too
[14:01] Jeremy Linden: Hm. Looks like most people are out to lunch :-P
[14:01] Nathan Adored: One of the sims I'm on reguillarly has 2 or 3 resident bots, one of them more intertrainment, responds to chat with goofy responses, the others are to defend the sim against greifers when needed, and stuff
[14:02] Nathan Adored: I have seen bots used as greeters in some shops, tho.
[14:02] Jeremy Linden: Are you aware of the Scripted Agent Status setting on our account pages?
[14:02] Cal Koray: Hai
[14:02] Jeremy Linden: Hello!
[14:02] Dedric Mauriac: yes, i flagged it for my companies bot
[14:03] Cal Koray: hey Jeremy how are you?
[14:03] Cal Koray has pinged you.
[14:03] Jeremy Linden: Pretty good! We're just wrapping up Documentation Office Hours :-)
[14:03] Cal Koray: okies
[14:03] Cal Koray: :]
[14:04] Nathan Adored:
[14:04] Cal Koray: huggie?
[14:04] Cal Koray: Cal Koray opens their eyes wide
[14:04] Cal Koray: Huggie?
[14:04] Cal Koray: HUGGIE?? >:o
[14:04] Cal Koray: HUGGIES! HUGGIES!! HUGGIES!!! HUGGIEZ!!!!
[14:05] Jeremy Linden: Hmm... lemme archive this transcript while I stall for more time...
[14:05] Nathan Adored: lol
[14:05] Cal Koray: Cal Koray ticks off jeremy linden on his linden hug list
[14:05] Cal Koray has pinged you.
[14:05] Nathan Adored: heh
[14:05] Nathan Adored: got a goal to hug every Linden at least once, eh? :D
[14:05] Cal Koray: yes
[14:05] Nathan Adored: LOL
[14:06] Cal Koray: °°° Yes! °°°
[14:06] Dedric Mauriac: lol. archive the hugs.
[14:06] Nathan Adored: Nathan Adored gives a great big smile.
[14:06] Cal Koray: wonder if i can find her
[14:06] Jeremy Linden: Dang. I just got word back. I can't talk about that feature I was referring to :-X
[14:06] Nathan Adored: pity
[14:06] Nathan Adored: Well, I'm sure we'll hear about it soon enough
[14:06] Cal Koray: Jeremy i just gave you a hug while you was doing something, hope you dont mind :)
[14:06] Cal Koray has pinged you.
[14:07] Jeremy Linden: Yep! And we'll have lots to talk about at this office hour once we get a public beta out :-)
[14:07] Nathan Adored: hehehehe
[14:07] Nathan Adored: kewl
[14:07] Jeremy Linden: No worries, Cal.
[14:07] Cal Koray: Hi5!
[14:07] lufpleh Obstreperous: will much in the way of documentation be released with public beta?

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