Doc Team/2010-03-03

Transcript

[13:08]	Ziki Questi:	hi torley and all :)
[13:08]	Jonathan Yap:	The new search makes it very difficult to scan for upcoming events. In the past you could look at 200 at a go just by moving a slider
[13:08]	Torley Linden:	Nathan, there've been attempts at "thin" clients but what you suggest might be considerably harder.
[13:08]	Youri Ashton:	openGL works hardly, try to keep telling Nyx, Simon, Andrew all the time but they always keep saying it is working fine. not knowing that there is a bug there
[13:08]	Carol Darkthief:	Came up in a discussion: multiple monitor OpenGL needs manufacturwer-specific driver support. Andthat's rather rare.
[13:08]	Bronson Blackadder:	its kinda a nebulas look to it
[13:08]	Youri Ashton:	yes, even with 2.0
[13:08]	Bronson Blackadder:	it might be something again Im gonna have to get used to
[13:09]	Youri Ashton:	oh hello jeremy :p sneaked up behind my camera have you :)
[13:09]	Youri Ashton	has pinged you.
[13:09]	Athanasius Skytower:	Wouldn't it be possible to move the non-3D portions of the interface out of the OpenGL part, though?
[13:09]	Jeremy Linden:	Hello!
[13:09]	Athanasius Skytower:	Especially now with the sidebar.
[13:09]	Torley Linden:	HI HI JEREMY!
[13:09]	Torley Linden	has pinged you.
[13:09]	Torley Linden:	I don't know how feasible that is, Athanasius, I'd ask a graphics guru.
[13:09]	Derek Galaxy:	hello Jeremy
[13:09]	Derek Galaxy	has pinged you.
[13:09]	Skills Hak:	hi guys
[13:10]	Youri Ashton:	hey skills :)
[13:10]	Youri Ashton:	no longer ADHD avi skills? ;)
[13:10]	Athanasius Skytower:	Probably a huge rewrite anyway. Should have thought of it before 2.0. :)
[13:10]	Jonathan Yap:	Torley, could we have documentation on the api/url that search sends to search.secondlife.com? I bet some clever people could improve upon it, write a clever hud, etc.
[13:10]	Torley Linden:	Athanasius, we did. I know documents going back to 2004. Maybe some even before my time.
[13:11]	Athanasius Skytower:	Ah, right.
[13:11]	Torley Linden:	There are a lot of "OMG THAT SOUNDS SO OBVIOUS" but are *non-trivially* hard to do. Another one is a "soft" logout that'd allow you to change accounts without quitting the Viewer. Ask James or Mark Linden for why that's not easy.
[13:11]	Youri Ashton:	think it may be good to do new video tutorials about the new 2.0 viewer torley, explaining everything
[13:11]	Carol Darkthief:	It's cost against number of custoimers affected.
[13:11]	Lisa Fossett:	He has, Youri
[13:11]	Youri Ashton:	perhaps it makes me love the viewer more as well
[13:11]	Torley Linden:	Youri, a new Beginner's series IS coming when Viewer 2 exits beta.
[13:11]	Youri Ashton:	havnt checked youtube so far :)
[13:11]	Derek Galaxy:	soft logons would be great, or one viewer with capibilities fo controling more than one avi at a time
[13:11]	Torley Linden:	Further tutorials will be prioritized on their broad usefulness.
[13:12]	Torley Linden:	http://youtube.com/secondlife <- subscribe!
[13:12]	Derek Galaxy:	allready have ;)
[13:12]	Nathan Adored:	/me smiles.
[13:12]	Carol Darkthief:	Torley, I'm one of those people who doesn't learn well from video, especially at YouTube resolution.
[13:12]	Youri Ashton:	my pc was a huge mess past week, thanks to a faulty ATI driver. AMD also said that the driver was not working propperly. so... yeah, had no opertunity so far
[13:12]	lonetorus Habilis:	/me kicks his shoes off
[13:13]	Torley Linden:	What's "YouTube resolution"?
[13:13]	lonetorus Habilis:	hey kate
[13:13]	Derek Galaxy:	Hey Kate
[13:13]	Kate Linden:	Hi :)
[13:13]	Nathan Adored:	You DO know you can view some youtube videos at higher res, right?
[13:13]	Youri Ashton:	hey kate! missed you!
[13:13]	Jonathan Yap:	Plus full screen mode
[13:13]	Torley Linden:	KAAAAAATE.
[13:13]	Kate Linden:	aww thanks Youri
[13:13]	Skills Hak:	hiya ツ
[13:13]	Kate Linden:	Hey Torley!
[13:13]	Skills Hak:	lol that avatar rocks torley
[13:13]	Carol Darkthief:	From here, what has a video taking twice as long to load as it does to play.
[13:13]	Youri Ashton:	how are you sweet kate?
[13:13]	Skills Hak:	someone should script the keyboard
[13:14]	Torley Linden:	By the way if any of you are using Viewer 2, be sure to click the "?" buttons in almost every window.
[13:14]	Torley Linden:	That's the glorious new context help we're still working on... :D
[13:14]	CPU Core:	i never keep help buttons
[13:14]	CPU Core:	click
[13:14]	Torley Linden:	Any and all key things about Viewer 2 Help will be listed on https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Viewer_2_Help so if you're fed up of bookmarking various things, it's compiled there.
[13:14]	CPU Core:	dont know why i said keep
[13:15]	Youri Ashton:	noticed that torley, just a mess to find out everything. like starting completely all over again
[13:15]	lonetorus Habilis:	because you secretlly stole buttons as a kid, and now have a trauma about it?
[13:15]	Nathan Adored:	heh
[13:15]	Paul54 Roffo:	I found it hard at first to teleport someone to me in the begining using the beta
[13:16]	Youri Ashton:	still no Jon btw?
[13:16]	Torley Linden:	It's important to distinguish: some stuff was poorly implemented before and now, learning (or relearning) can take time. That's different from the things that still need design work, tho.
[13:16]	Paul54 Roffo:	just takes a bit of getting used to
[13:16]	Nitz Lane:	pardon a real newbie question, but has Viewer 2.0 any improvements in terms of rendering, such as graphics and fps? I realise I should heck that wiki before asking but still..
[13:16]	Youri Ashton:	he still to busy?
[13:16]	Torley Linden:	Jon and all of us Doc'ers really have been supah buzay with Viewer 2 and other exciting projects!
[13:16]	Derek Galaxy:	are your videos the only place to see tricks like window opacity in 2.0 Torley? or is there als an online help site? (dose the wiki include these things?)
[13:16]	CPU Core:	it takes more than a little getting used to.. takes a bit more time too lol
[13:16]	Adamburp Adamczyk:	is that why you guys are hard to get a hold of? :)
[13:17]	Jonathan Yap:	Nitz, there are some freezing bugs fixed in the rendering pipeline
[13:17]	Torley Linden:	Nitz, not really. The Snowglobe build based on 2.0 does have some, tho.
[13:17]	lonetorus Habilis:	nitz, its pretty much same renderer, just more bugs in v2 ;)
[13:17]	CPU Core:	once you get used to v2 you wills till be slower doing things than in v1.. v1 is just easier
[13:17]	Youri Ashton:	lol, prod him for us, we love to see him again. besides, i think we all agree on giving him a little break?
[13:17]	Torley Linden:	Derek, we'll be updating http://secondlife.com/kb articles for Viewer 2 help. My videos will be included as appropriate.
[13:17]	Torley Linden:	Derek, also see the Viewer 2 Help link I pasted above. =)
[13:17]	Torley Linden:	Adamburp, hehe we're reliably here almost every week!
[13:18]	Derek Galaxy:	ok ty, just wondering
[13:18]	Nitz Lane:	k, thanks for the answers I need to read up a little in that wiki
[13:18]	Torley Linden:	We have one of the most long-running and popular office hours at Linden Lab! https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:Documentation_Office_Hours
[13:18]	Adamburp Adamczyk:	i meant in general torley, but mroe of a rhetorical joke, i know how hard workign you guys are
[13:18]	Carol Darkthief:	Nitz, I do get better frame rate. A big chunk of that seems to be the opaqu pop-up and sidebar, reducing the screen area which needs to be rendered for a frame.
[13:18]	Torley Linden:	;)
[13:18]	Kate Linden:	Adam we are here almost every week.
[13:18]	Paul54 Roffo:	do you keep all your vidoeos in the sam place Torley so they can put a link to them in the top menu :-)
[13:19]	Torley Linden:	Paul54, we'll be promoting the YouTube channel more and I can put the videos in multiple places as-needed... they're also at http://secondlife.com/my -- as for more in-Viewer placement, we shall... see, ha ha ha.
[13:19]	Paul54 Roffo:	:)
[13:19]	Skills Hak:	i wish there was some more education about the viewers people should NOT use
[13:20]	Carol Darkthief:	Damn, I should have checked. The various official wiki pages on Age and Account verification seemed to contradict each other, but I don't know if it was fixed.
[13:20]	Skills Hak:	according to the third party policy etc
[13:20]	Torley Linden:	Skills, explain more about that?
[13:20]	Youri Ashton:	feel free to have me add some on my blog torley, could be usefull
[13:20]	lonetorus Habilis:	well, as long as they pick one from the 3rd party client registry, they should be fine, right?
[13:20]	Skills Hak:	i mean the TPV clearly states people can get banned for using viewers that bypass the permission system etc
[13:21]	Skills Hak:	still alot of people use software like that and they don't know about the problems
[13:21]	lonetorus Habilis:	well, the ppl "testing" neillife etc are up to no good to begin with, and they know it
[13:21]	Adamburp Adamczyk:	yes
[13:21]	Skills Hak:	i mean the software is against TOS and violates many license agreements etc
[13:21]	Adamburp Adamczyk:	i got crashed last night ith that one
[13:21]	Torley Linden:	Ah yes. I made an internal suggestion earlier to the folks working on the Viewer Registry and stuff. I don't know where all that's at, at the moment.
[13:21]	Skills Hak:	often those viewers send out your password to the makers and contain rootkits and viruses
[13:22]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Even the tpv voliates some licienes.
[13:22]	Youri Ashton:	of course its against ToS skills, its still stealing when you copybot
[13:22]	Jonathan Yap:	Skills, there has been some concern about media on a prim and exploits coming in via javascript or flash
[13:22]	Lisa Fossett:	Could someone explain the abbreviation TPV?
[13:22]	Adamburp Adamczyk:	third party viewer
[13:22]	lonetorus Habilis:	its worce, when they steal your identity and credit card detqails, thourgh the rootkit that was imbeddded in the client they downlaoded
[13:22]	Lisa Fossett:	facepalms
[13:22]	lonetorus Habilis:	worse
[13:22]	Carol Darkthief:	Skills, if you have proof of that, it's a criminal offence and should be reported to, the FBI, or whoever enforces those laws.
[13:22]	Youri Ashton:	/me Facepaws
[13:22]	Adamburp Adamczyk:	don;t you scan your dpownloads first?
[13:23]	Torley Linden:	Re: Shared Media concerns, our legal dept. is aware. Some concerns existed prior to this, but Shared Media is more mobile.
[13:23]	Skills Hak:	http://secondlife.com/corporate/tpv.php
[13:23]	Adamburp Adamczyk:	downloads*
[13:23]	lonetorus Habilis:	adam, a recent study showed about 40% detection rate using top 15 major anti virus on 0 day exploits
[13:23]	Paul54 Roffo:	i found about thee different senconlife version keys in my Registy once i deleted them and downloaded sl again everything worked perectly
[13:24]	Adamburp Adamczyk:	how often do you update? mine is set fr every hour to check
[13:24]	lonetorus Habilis:	anti virus is really starting to get ineffective these days
[13:24]	Torley Linden:	Link, lonetorus? Did they include Kaspersky?
[13:24]	Adamburp Adamczyk:	i use avast
[13:24]	CPU Core:	i dont bother with antivirus
[13:24]	Derek Galaxy:	windows in general needs better registry management lol
[13:24]	Nathan Adored:	avast here too
[13:24]	Youri Ashton:	dont have any protection what so ever atm
[13:24]	Torley Linden:	CPU, are you on a Mac? Hehe.
[13:24]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Section 1h states that if the viewer adds or remove featrues, it forbideen.
[13:24]	Adamburp Adamczyk:	torley, can i mention a product in here?
[13:24]	CPU Core:	no im on a PC
[13:24]	CPU Core:	never get viruses
[13:25]	Derek Galaxy:	im using norton avast and avg on 3 diff comps (not al on them all)
[13:25]	Torley Linden:	Depends what it is but I won't know until you do, Adamburp!
[13:25]	Skills Hak:	theres no protection against software that sends your password out to other people inworld
[13:25]	Adamburp Adamczyk:	for rootkits, get teh free sophos tool
[13:25]	Adamburp Adamczyk:	it;s amazing
[13:25]	Torley Linden:	Some stuff there is no technical "cure" for, so one must be savvy about which websites you visit.
[13:25]	Skills Hak:	some viewers sends encrypted data via inworld IM to various accounts immediately after login, though we are not aware of what data is contained due to the encryption, the size of the dataset suggests no more than a few lines of text, all evidence suggests the viewer is IMing your username/PW combination to the creator. We believe use of this viewer is an extreme risk to your computer and privacy.
[13:25]	lonetorus Habilis:	besides, if its targeted at you, you cant protect yourself
[13:25]	Derek Galaxy:	how could a shared mediid web page exploit your computer?
[13:26]	Paul54 Roffo:	Windows Essentials is good at catching most spyware and viruses and its free
[13:26]	Carol Darkthief:	Guys, as far as computer virues and roiotkits go, I have no particular reason to trust amy claimn that you make. Not any of you, even Torley. Except for a general agreement that folks should be careful.
[13:26]	Skills Hak:	we are going to release a list of malicious viewers soon, but would be great to have something official from the Lab too
[13:26]	lonetorus Habilis:	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antivirus_software #Effectiveness
[13:26]	Jonathan Yap:	Derek, the media plays a flash and some exploit is used against your computer
[13:26]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Shared media just need to trick the client into opeing up IE was a url to a malware/spam/trogin site.
[13:26]	Derek Galaxy:	even fron within the sl viewer?
[13:26]	Logos Sohl:	* is taking deep breaths *
[13:27]	Jonathan Yap:	Derek, yes, that is an issues with the new shared media
[13:27]	Derek Galaxy:	/me hasnt experemented or looked at shared madia yet
[13:27]	Skills Hak:	shared media is as "dangerous" as any normal website you visit
[13:27]	Derek Galaxy:	lol
[13:27]	CPU Core:	if ever i did get a virus or serious problems then i would reformat.. not had to though
[13:27]	Derek Galaxy:	ok, just wondering
[13:27]	Paul54 Roffo:	i wouldnt trust it myself
[13:27]	Torley Linden:	Confirmed, serious exploits should be reported to http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Security_issues ASAP. If you know what you're talking about and it's not just a misunderstanding or scare, our guys will get on it fast. We need to squash myths and paranoia while improving understanding of real things to remember.
[13:27]	Youri Ashton:	think the sl wiki needs such info as well, and updated with time.
[13:27]	Paul54 Roffo:	or any program that shares my folders
[13:27]	lonetorus Habilis:	skills, except its webkit, less likely exploit authors will be targeting webkit
[13:27]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Skills, true. But one visite the site, here on SL, the cleint visites the site jsut by walking past a prim.
[13:27]	Jonathan Yap:	I think it is more dangerous, as you do not chose to visit those sites (by default autoplay is on)
[13:28]	lonetorus Habilis:	but yeah, autoplai is a problem
[13:28]	Paul54 Roffo:	another bad one it UPnP
[13:28]	lonetorus Habilis:	i want to be asked every time if i want a specific media source to executre
[13:28]	Youri Ashton:	since SL is a community and LL wants to keep people in as much as possible, but do want people to be save. so why not offer just that little bit extra to the residents?
[13:28]	Torley Linden:	Autoplay is, in some ways, like allowing pop-up windows or even pages to refresh/redirect automatically.
[13:28]	Athanasius Skytower:	Is there documentation available on exactly what's supported by the HTML on a prim in terms of non-HTML stuff? Flash, etc.?
[13:28]	CPU Core:	yeah you need to stop people being paranoid.
[13:28]	Derek Galaxy:	can a viewer under 2 display a surface with shared media? (im guessing no because it cant display flash, am i rihgt?)
[13:28]	Athanasius Skytower:	Haven't found it yet, but I may just have missed it.
[13:28]	lonetorus Habilis:	athana, look up feature list of webkit
[13:29]	CPU Core:	people think if others see thier ip they will get hacked
[13:29]	Paul54 Roffo:	Parinoia is just being self aware lol.
[13:29]	Torley Linden:	Right Derek, Shared Media requires Viewer 2.
[13:29]	Bronson Blackadder:	what?!?!?!?!?! people can see me through my LCD monitor?!?!?!?!?!
[13:29]	Athanasius Skytower:	So, everything webkit has and nothing i doesn't, yeah?
[13:29]	Jeremy Linden:	Shared Media *can* display flash, in fact.
[13:29]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Shared Media needs to be opt-IN, not opt-OUT as it is now.
[13:29]	Youri Ashton:	no bron
[13:29]	Nathan Adored:	/me LOLs at Bronson
[13:29]	Derek Galaxy:	ooohhh Bronson, put some cloths on!
[13:29]	Youri Ashton:	its a 1 way street basically, impossible
[13:29]	Derek Galaxy:	lmao
[13:29]	Bronson Blackadder:	damnit all
[13:29]	lonetorus Habilis:	but Jobs says flash is ebil!!!111
[13:29]	Skills Hak:	currently the worst thing you can do is crash the viewer with bad javascript
[13:29]	Skills Hak:	but it's still beta so that will be fixed soon i'm sure
[13:29]	Torley Linden:	The HTML5 storm is brewing. Har har.
[13:30]	Youri Ashton:	only idiots think they can change something like that into a camera
[13:30]	Derek Galaxy:	lol i can do html lol, dont know if i could crash even a cell phone
[13:30]	Bronson Blackadder:	youri have you found my tinfoil hat yet?
[13:30]	Jonathan Yap:	Did you all see the video of the avatar walking along NYC using google maps street view?
[13:30]	Niky Zenovka:	/me waves
[13:31]	Skills Hak:	your IP was never save, it's the internet :)
[13:31]	Carol Darkthief:	]So what is there with in-world web content that we can't do better wiuth our usual browsers. And maybe with more confidence of our security?
[13:31]	Youri Ashton:	if you have a webcam however, well yes. then people can install a file on your pc so they can use that. so best to let it show a wall for example
[13:31]	Torley Linden:	I saw that via Esbee, Jonathan. :)
[13:31]	Torley Linden:	Early on Aimee put one of my panoramas on a curved prim, that was pretty cool, too.
[13:31]	Derek Galaxy:	has the ability to click drag and rearange viewer 2 buttons and elemants been considered?
[13:31]	Torley Linden:	Carol, some of the interaction is neat. Using a webpage as an enhanced control panel to change the color of a couch is a real example that's been passed around.
[13:31]	Skills Hak:	it's not sensitive at all
[13:32]	lonetorus Habilis:	skills, or use a vpn redirect service, lots of them these days, and cheap too
[13:32]	CPU Core:	Heres how an expert gets a persons IP LP >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXmv8quf_xM
[13:32]	Torley Linden:	Working on info-displays collaboratively is another big one that comes up in a lot of context: when you want both 3D space and existing web services.
[13:32]	Nathan Adored:	will the couch so changed change color for a 1.x viwer, too?
[13:32]	Carol Darkthief:	/me laughs. "That's like buying a Microsoft compiler to put "Hello World" on your screen.
[13:32]	Torley Linden:	Someone who's extremely concerned about their privacy shouldn't be on the Internet at all.
[13:32]	Youri Ashton:	true torley
[13:33]	Derek Galaxy:	embrace the risk lol
[13:33]	Torley Linden:	It's controversial but true, because the way societies are working. It's like, 300 years ago if someone told you what a "factory" was gonna be like, you'd kick their ass for being so freakin' crazy. Now, it's the norm.
[13:33]	Paul54 Roffo:	i have been on the internet since AOL started and i havent been hacked once
[13:33]	lonetorus Habilis:	wel if ppl would just stop telling ppl about their private life on facebook etc, the problem would be much smaller for those ppl
[13:33]	lonetorus Habilis:	XD
[13:33]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Getting an IP isn't a big deal but for two things. One is can find alts with it, two is location, while not the city, but at least the country and each country has differetn laws.
[13:33]	Paul54 Roffo:	oh oh who just stole my TV
[13:33]	Skills Hak:	well it needs some educating maybe
[13:34]	Youri Ashton:	either get a few lessons on what is possible and what not, how to use the internet propperly, can solve a lot of problems. else dont touch the internet
[13:34]	lonetorus Habilis:	tech, often city too
[13:34]	Adamburp Adamczyk:	well folks i;'ll bid you all "adieu", my bedtime, 0500 start for me tomorrow
[13:34]	lonetorus Habilis:	geo ip databases are pretty accurate these days
[13:34]	Nathan Adored:	Techwolf: you have a program in-world that lets you detect IP addies?
[13:34]	Youri Ashton:	only getting yourself hurt in a way if you dont know what your doing, no wonder you getting paranoid over nothing...
[13:35]	lonetorus Habilis:	natahn, it would be against TOS, so obviously not ;)
[13:35]	Torley Linden:	It's important to be well-informed of possible consequences to choices you make -- that's one thing we're repeatedly emphasizing in providing better documentation.
[13:35]	Youri Ashton:	same with those chainletter things, all sad stories but everyone with commen sense knows they are FAKE, DO NOT TOUCH OR SEND. LOL
[13:35]	Torley Linden:	"I don't know" is different from "It can't happen".
[13:35]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Nathan, only works for viewer 2.0. and I havn'g made it yet. But others i'me sure are.
[13:35]	Nathan Adored:	ah
[13:36]	CPU Core:	i just want to slap people who respond to chain mails
[13:36]	Nathan Adored:	Well, I only have one alt... and only log on under it breifly maybe once every week or every other week
[13:36]	Youri Ashton:	i usually report such idiots
[13:36]	Carol Darkthief:	Youri, I hear some pretty wild claims about a lot of things. Where I have the knowledge, they're usually ludicrous, but somebody believed it and passed it on.
[13:36]	Youri Ashton:	giving MY email address for something like that!
[13:36]	Kate Linden:	Hot off the blog: https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/land/blog/2010/03/03/customize-your-linden-home-with-our-new-control-panel
[13:36]	Torley Linden:	CPU, it's unfortunate there's a lot of gullability out there. Even with Snopes, a lot of people don't bother to check that.
[13:36]	Torley Linden:	w00t Kate had a direct role in helping Linden Homes to launch!
[13:36]	Nathan Adored:	Oh yes, those silly urba-myth things like "Rez this prim and it'll steal all your lindens!!!!!"
[13:36]	Skills Hak:	wow that's cool
[13:37]	Aargle Zymurgy:	your average dictionary typically lacks a definition for "gullible." look it up if you don't believe me. :-D
[13:37]	Nathan Adored:	*urban
[13:37]	Skills Hak:	great idea whoever did that
[13:37]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I created a wildcard e-mail address and use disposiable e-mail for every web site that requres registeration just to READ an articial.
[13:37]	Athanasius Skytower:	If there ends up being any policy against capturing IPs, can we make sure it doesn't impact legitimate uses? Like, say, "Download this piece of SL-related software from this prim?"
[13:37]	Paul54 Roffo:	I heard there is a new schemr to invite a Linden home for tea as they dont get paid very6 much
[13:37]	Kate Linden:	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Linden_Home_Help_Guide
[13:38]	Athanasius Skytower:	I mean, sure, my FTP server gets your IP that way, but the usage seems reasonable, right? I may be off the mainstream on that, though.
[13:38]	Logos Sohl:	/me just chcked her linden balance @ Nathan ;)
[13:38]	lonetorus Habilis:	torley, and snopes has been questioned too, iirc
[13:38]	Carol Darkthief:	Nathan, a script in a prim can do all sorts of stuff when you rez it.
[13:38]	Nathan Adored:	Paul54: You can invite a Linden home over for tea? :D :D D:
[13:38]	Torley Linden:	Athansius, that's really too speculative and impractical to answer.
[13:38]	Torley Linden:	Remember that you could still get IPs through parcel media (as an example) for years.
[13:38]	CPU Core:	i dont think they can make a policy on capturing IPs
[13:38]	Athanasius Skytower:	Well, just throught I'd bring the legitimate uses up, seeing as it's quite the tempest at the moment.
[13:38]	Athanasius Skytower:	*thought
[13:38]	Carol Darkthief:	But if it can steal your Lindens, anything can.
[13:38]	Skills Hak:	there are several ways to acquire IPs but IPs are not the problem
[13:39]	Torley Linden:	Some issues don't fundamentally change, it's just perception.
[13:39]	Nathan Adored:	Yah, but it a prim wants to take lindens from you, you usually get a big, yellow dialog box asking if you want to allow it...
[13:39]	CPU Core:	if your looking at other peoples websites then they get your ips thats just the way it is
[13:39]	Skills Hak:	that was a theoretical quicktime exploit and has been fixed carol
[13:39]	CPU Core:	always will be
[13:39]	Athanasius Skytower:	Mm, that, too.
[13:39]	Paul54 Roffo:	Mac numbers are handy for tracing people
[13:40]	Paul54 Roffo:	you know the equipment is the hardware they are using
[13:40]	Athanasius Skytower:	Hard to get off of the same segment, though.
[13:40]	CPU Core:	anyway whats the topic here i forgot?
[13:40]	Paul54 Roffo:	and they dont vhange so quickly
[13:40]	Torley Linden:	We tend to travel through topics!
[13:40]	Sabrine Mimulus:	hi
[13:40]	Techwolf Lupindo:	MAC number only go to the next router. Its a hardware level address so hardware have a way to talking to each other locally.
[13:40]	Youri Ashton:	i think registering IP's is rather usefull and needed, it's perhaps not nice to those that dont do anything bad, but griefers think twice before trying anything. calling their provider to completely close the path to SL is rather better as well
[13:40]	Nathan Adored:	the topic today is.... topic drift! :D
[13:41]	Paul54 Roffo:	my pc mac has never changed
[13:41]	Youri Ashton:	only way to get back on is by changing providers then
[13:41]	Niky Zenovka:	most IPs are behind a home router, with 192.168.x.y address scheme... that means nothing... and the public IP is the ISP.... so, no big issue....
[13:41]	Aargle Zymurgy:	I drink to forget topics.
[13:41]	Paul54 Roffo:	and i bet my isp has a record of it
[13:41]	Niky Zenovka:	and usually, ISPs give dynamic IPs...
[13:41]	Sabrine Mimulus:	i have a question about support on multi screen, can we in the futur release invled an expanded viewer for panoramic view ?
[13:41]	Nathan Adored:	/me LOLs ar Aargle
[13:41]	Youri Ashton:	tells enough niky
[13:41]	Nathan Adored:	*at
[13:41]	Jeremy Linden:	What we know best is Second Life help resources. How to actually use the controls for Second Life, and how to perform normal tasks in the Second Life world. We might happen to know some stuff outside that area, but it's hit-or-miss.
[13:41]	lonetorus Habilis:	yeah lets implement ACTA and 3 strikes, so we can start taking those griffers offline !!!111
[13:42]	Jonathan Yap:	Torley, could we have documentation on the url that search sends to search.secondlife.com? (try #2 at getting through the chat flying by)
[13:42]	Torley Linden:	Also, there continues to be a knowledge divide... Richard Feynmann said this so well in a TV interview, that for someone to really understand something deeply, they need to get a LOT more technically involved with the subject matter. Lots don't have the time/curiosity, so even if a simple answer is given, they don't really know.
[13:42]	lonetorus Habilis:	feynmann is my personal hero
[13:42]	Nathan Adored:	aaaaaawww http://www .... ㋡
[13:42]	Torley Linden:	Jonathan, explain more?
[13:42]	Torley Linden:	I highly recommend http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMFPe-DwULM (the Feynmann video I was talking about)
[13:43]	Sabrine Mimulus:	thank you i will check it out
[13:43]	Jonathan Yap:	With i tbeing so hard to search on events, I could see people wantiing to connect using their own program to the LL search engine, so a better display could be presented to the user
[13:43]	Carol Darkthief:	In my exoerience, even after bnearly thirty years of computer eductions in British schools, most npeople don't have out level of knowledge. They don't "feel" the problem.
[13:43]	Torley Linden:	Jonathan, ah! http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Search_API
[13:44]	Jonathan Yap:	ah! You beat me to it I suspect
[13:44]	Torley Linden:	I don't know how that's changing in 2.0... that might be a good one for Liana and her team.
[13:44]	lonetorus Habilis:	feynmann was a trickster too, esp with opening safes ;) so not always a in depth knowledge needed
[13:44]	Torley Linden:	Yes, Feynmann was a lot of fun on the bongos. Very multidimensional genius, a true eccentric in the best sense of the word.
[13:44]	Jonathan Yap:	Torley, I am keeping score, that is 2 for you and 0 for me so far. :)
[13:44]	Torley Linden:	Happy to help. ^_^
[13:44]	Sabrine Mimulus:	yes this is my first still a bit new to sl but really would like to get more involved
[13:45]	Torley Linden:	Oh, very cool Sabrine, I encourage you to pursue what you're interested in. :D
[13:45]	Sabrine Mimulus:	thank you i will
[13:45]	Youri Ashton:	everything can be cheated, everything can be tricked, everything can be broken. It's no art, the art is fixing the problem, reparing things and creating things!
[13:45]	lonetorus Habilis:	torley, he is i suppose to some degree responsible for me being in sl still, in regards to "the pleasure of fiding things out" lot sof things to find out about on the sl platform
[13:45]	Paul54 Roffo:	i heard the linden is overtaking the British Pound lol.
[13:46]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[13:46]	Bronson Blackadder:	hellits so far on par withe the peso
[13:46]	Torley Linden:	lonetorus, that's a great story. Part of why I'm here was because I did single-player virtual worlds on my old Amiga and it was kind of lonely, so years later... lots of cyberpunk spirit here.
[13:46]	Paul54 Roffo:	hahahahha
[13:46]	Torley Linden:	I love origin stories, how things come to be, WHY someone takes action. WHY they care so much?
[13:46]	Carol Darkthief:	Now people are saying that the internet is an expression of a new mode ofn human thought, much as mass literacy was. But that new internet man is giving us Facebook, and that scares me.
[13:46]	Youri Ashton:	trying to cheat, break or trick something is only showing that the person does not have the knowlage and capabilities to actually do something else
[13:46]	Skills Hak:	i think it's getting more and more interesting :D
[13:46]	lonetorus Habilis:	and who knew you could get so involved with o-rings ;)
[13:47]	Torley Linden:	The world has an abundance of great ideas but a shortage of acting on those -- and tools like SL help realize those ideas much quicker, and as tech increases, at a lower barrier.
[13:47]	Nathan Adored:	Torley: do yuo mean origin stories of technolofies, or origin stories of... say.... fictional characters?
[13:47]	Sabrine Mimulus:	i do beleive in open source it allow so much evolution
[13:47]	Torley Linden:	Carol, and Chatroulette! :O
[13:47]	Torley Linden:	Nathan, both. I'm enjoying Caprica right now, the actress who plays Zoe should come inworld.
[13:47]	lonetorus Habilis:	torley, same goes for sl OH's residents usually have a lot more ideas than sl devs can implement ....ever
[13:47]	Sabrine Mimulus:	so much talent out there
[13:48]	Niky Zenovka:	Oh, Caprica is a great show...
[13:48]	Torley Linden:	Alessandra Torresani fan here. My alt even has one of her quotes in-profile.
[13:48]	Nathan Adored:	Well, my persona on SL has a kind of a complicated origin story. heh.
[13:48]	Carol Darkthief:	In some ways, the internet is a lot like the discussion in the bar at a British SF convention. A real one, not those Star Trek things.
[13:48]	Torley Linden:	Yup, lonetorus. So I like when a newcomer learns about what's already been done and why it may not have been doable, and teams up with someone more experienced.
[13:48]	Nathan Adored:	Yeah, that most recent ep of Caprica was good. Kinda SL-ish, too.
[13:49]	Torley Linden:	I wouldn't have stayed past my first few days were it not for way wiser Resis.
[13:49]	Torley Linden:	Oh cool Nathan, I like avatar roleplaying and characterization... I come from text MUDs too...
[13:49]	Carol Darkthief:	Tapestries?
[13:49]	Nathan Adored:	Mine came from a series of BBS round-robin stories.
[13:49]	Derek Galaxy:	im cureious torley, did you start sl before you beagn working for linden labs?
[13:49]	Logos Sohl:	@ Torley can I pls quote you on the following. Was gonna IM you but it looks complicated.. " The world has an abundance of great ideas but a shortage of acting on those -- and tools like SL help realize those ideas much quicker, and as tech increases, at a lower barrier."
[13:49]	Nathan Adored:	(BBS = Bulletin Board Systems.... 80s tech)
[13:50]	Torley Linden:	Derek, I did. Several months, then I had a crazy dream I should send my "resume" in.
[13:50]	lonetorus Habilis:	anything said in oåpen chat is fair to quite, i would think
[13:50]	Torley Linden:	Sure Logos, glad you like it. I stand on the shoulders of giants who've said the same thing (likely better!) before.
[13:51]	Carol Darkthief:	Many men have great ideas. Great men know which ones should be acted on.
[13:51]	Paul54 Roffo:	Have you got a Derek Linden torley
[13:51]	Torley Linden:	lonetorus, yeah, unless it's out of context. ;)
[13:51]	Logos Sohl:	I like to check anyway @ lonetorus :)
[13:52]	Torley Linden:	Not yet.
[13:52]	Derek Galaxy:	lol paul
[13:52]	Derek Galaxy:	dont ruin if for me if i want a job lol
[13:52]	Paul54 Roffo:	what this space
[13:52]	lonetorus Habilis:	yes of course, never hurts to ping the source
[13:52]	Nathan Adored:	My personah came from a sci-fi character I invented 20 years go as a sort of bit-part character who wound up growing in importance... heh...
[13:52]	Niky Zenovka:	Thinking of inworld immersion... anyone tested any 3D glass with SL? Did it work?
[13:52]	Torley Linden:	Nathan, and now you can bring more of that to life and have others experience your story too?
[13:53]	Nathan Adored:	I know there's at least one viwer that uses 3D glasses, yeah
[13:53]	Torley Linden:	Niky, I've heard of a few experiments with the Nvidia-compatible ones. I haven't tried it yet tho.
[13:53]	Jeremy Linden:	I tried a 3D heads-up goggle set with SL once. It wasn't so good at 640x480 :-/
[13:53]	Derek Galaxy:	i would love a device that lets me "enter" sl, like a virtual reality game dose
[13:53]	Nathan Adored:	Torley: More or less, yeah. It's been fun.
[13:53]	Torley Linden:	I love immersion like mad.
[13:53]	Aargle Zymurgy:	I would LOVE to be doing SL in full 3D
[13:53]	Skills Hak:	oh lord
[13:53]	Torley Linden:	Ha, well Aargle, someday a day like that will come and we'll say "Remember when we had these flat 2D monitors?"
[13:53]	lonetorus Habilis:	yeah, wearable headsets, tend to get really expensive if you want better than VGA resolution
[13:54]	Torley Linden:	Cracks me up already how bulky CRTs are.
[13:54]	Logos Sohl:	Did you guys see a vdeo called "‘Second Life’ controlled w/ brain-computer interface"?
[13:54]	CPU Core:	the sidebar wouldnt be great when your using 3D glasses
[13:54]	Nathan Adored:	Problem is, not all objkect in world are fully 3D. Many plants, for instance, are just an image of the plant placed onto some flat planes.
[13:54]	Niky Zenovka:	I guess the 3D improved lots, or? Have been seeing 3D goggles out there quite frequently from Nvidia
[13:54]	Torley Linden:	Logos, yes! I've seen that, and the HandsFree3D (done by Merov Linden).
[13:54]	Skills Hak:	i still haven't tried this 3D viewer
[13:54]	Youri Ashton:	old video, but yeah, seen it
[13:54]	Skills Hak:	would be interesting to see with newer graphics
[13:55]	Torley Linden:	Having a headset makes me think of... POWER GLOVE NES STYLE!
[13:55]	Youri Ashton:	was before he became a linden so far i understood
[13:55]	Torley Linden:	Some of this tech they make for serious military usages but to get funding they sell versions to the consumer market.
[13:55]	Nathan Adored:	Any of you guys ever watch the rather unusual sci-fi show they had int he mid 90s, "VR 5"?
[13:55]	lonetorus Habilis:	lawnmower man like setup for sl....
[13:55]	Carol Darkthief:	The 3D viewer I saw does colour anaglyphs or shutter spectacles if you can afford them. ,
[13:55]	Torley Linden:	I saw a bit of that, Nathan. Other stuff in that vein I love... would be Strange Days, Wild Palms...
[13:56]	Paul54 Roffo:	Was that in america they showed that
[13:56]	Jonathan Yap:	I loved VR 5
[13:56]	lonetorus Habilis:	military is serious?!? i always thought of it as a joke and waste of resources ;)
[13:56]	Torley Linden:	I can flash back to 1993 and hear the pounding Psykosonik riffs! When that wave of VR was such a buzzy trend.
[13:56]	Nathan Adored:	yeah, pity it never got the followup seson or movie it deserved. They ended it with a cliffhanger
[13:57]	Paul54 Roffo:	Have to go gigi kiddnapped me lol.
[13:57]	Derek Galaxy:	when i saw avarar i thought "i wish that could be done with sl".
[13:57]	Torley Linden:	I hate when they do that do an awesome show. Sliders was another show that had lots of potential but went downhill...
[13:57]	Nathan Adored:	They WERE working on a TV movie, but the plug got pulled... oO
[13:57]	Aargle Zymurgy:	I've got a genuine 3D film camera. quite old, though. does square 35mm images
[13:57]	lonetorus Habilis:	film or still image?
[13:57]	Niky Zenovka:	Might be silly, but I like a lot the Doctor Who show... :)
[13:58]	Nathan Adored:	same here. my skybox home is a TARDIS interior.
[13:58]	Torley Linden:	Niky, Sea Linden does too, a lot.
[13:58]	Aargle Zymurgy:	still image, lone
[13:58]	Torley Linden:	The Doctor Who theme is genius.
[13:58]	Carol Darkthief:	Still image can be pretty easy with film. Dual viewer for transparencies and a splitter attachment on the lens.
[13:58]	Niky Zenovka:	Yes... :) Made a ringtone of it... lol
[13:58]	Nathan Adored:	㋡
[13:58]	Niky Zenovka:	I wish I had a TARDIS..
[13:58]	Aargle Zymurgy:	and I've rendered some video in full 3D before.
[13:58]	lonetorus Habilis:	torley, so is the original HHGTTG radio show theme
[13:58]	lonetorus Habilis:	lots of good stuff has come out of bbc radiophonic workshop
[13:59]	Torley Linden:	http://www.flickr.com/photos/torley/3517718845/  ;)
[13:59]	Nathan Adored:	At least three different brands of TARDIS in world to choose from: Hands of Omega, Novatech, Angelsomethingorother.... and..... was it Shoop or Shook or something like tht?
[14:00]	Youri Ashton:	time to go for dinner now! bye bye all, thanks for teh OH doc team!
[14:00]	Torley Linden:	I like Bill & Ted too, when I first came inworld one of my first builds was the Circle K.
[14:00]	Torley Linden:	They have a time-traveling phone booth.

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