Jack linden office hour 22-09-2009

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List of Attendees


[11:05] Alexxa Despres: Jack...tehre still seems to be an issue with not being able to ban people 'estate wide'. This has been going on for a LOOOOOOOONNNG time.
[11:05] Alexxa Despres: is there a light at the end of the tunnel on this?
[11:05] Equinox Pinion: that is a real pain for us jack
[11:06] lonetorus Habilis: the troubble seems mostly that its near impossible to reproduce reliably
[11:06] Jack Linden: Alexxa, from what I've been told that is more of an issue around certain 3rd party viewers rather than an actual bug. But I know the engineers are very aware of it
[11:06] Techwolf Lupindo: While doing a gridhunt, I enounter camping chairs with about a dozon or so bots fighting for a spot. Who should be ARed in that case? :-)
[11:06] Prokofy Neva: well aren't you going to rein in the third-party menaces?
[11:06] Alexxa Despres: <<never uses 3rd party,....so it has been an issue for me for a long time...just to clarify :)
[11:07] Equinox Pinion: i thought you will only approve 3rd party viewer which are secure
[11:07] Prokofy Neva: OMG jack Linden, you've aged 30 years since I last saw ye, must be the openspaces debacle and the chickens, yeesh
[11:07] Jack Linden: Techwolf, i think that as camping chairs usually serve the same purpose, of inflating traffic, then ARing the person who is using them is reasonable. We'll still investigate so we will be fair about how it's handled
[11:08] Zoha Boa: still investigating ...after 6 months ???
[11:08] Techwolf Lupindo: Hard to do 30 ARs in a row.
[11:08] lonetorus Habilis: jack, interesting, i dont recall 3rd party viewvers being mentioned in the jira about the estate ban bug ( http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4632)
[11:08] Jack Linden: Oh hi Prokofy.. you'll have seen the blog post that Cyn sent out. We'll be talking more but we're acutely aware of the issues around some 3rd party viewers
[11:08] Prokofy Neva: well of coures it's the third parties
[11:08] Equinox Pinion: what about the sim owner who abuse their status and are mature event they should be adult
[11:08] Prokofy Neva: not only have I seen the blog post I've posted like 30 times in it : )
[11:09] Equinox Pinion: it is always fun to read your posts prokofy :)
[11:09] Melody Regent: That jira seems to be an important one for alot of people. Why is it still unassigned and what steps are being taken to fix this
[11:09] Prokofy Neva: everybody who celebrates the third-party hacked viewers should draw the dotted lines between them and their lack of estate bans
[11:09] Talarus Luan: There was a bug with people setting their home point to a region and then you can't ban them from it
[11:10] Jack Linden: Ionetorus (wow that's hard to type).. I'll prod the devs, but my understanding is that certain 3rd party viewers can cause estate ban to not work properly
[11:10] Prokofy Neva: Jack tell us about the FIC thing with Anshe, what's up with that
[11:10] Driftwood Miles: it affects people WITHOUT 3rd party viewers
[11:10] Qie Niangao: even if it's due to third party viewers, the *fix* needs to be on the server side.
[11:10] Techwolf Lupindo: Estate ban workaround can be used with LL clients, so the third party cleints are not the issue with the estate ban bugs.
[11:10] stormi Capalini: yes, i would like to hear about that as well, Prokofy
[11:10] Equinox Pinion: if that happends..will you work with them and tell them they have to make it work or they will not be allowed anymore
[11:10] lonetorus Habilis: why is estate ban and 3rd party viewers being mixed up, does anyone have any proof of a connection?
[11:10] Talarus Luan: Yeah, if they're banned, they're banned. The server isn't enforcing it because there's a hole in the server code
[11:10] Driftwood Miles: agreed Tal
[11:10] Shawno Sands: good Point Prokofy
[11:10] Trouble Streeter: it's not just 3rd party viewers that evade Estate Bans
[11:11] Equinox Pinion: i dont lonetorus..just have people coming back :P
[11:11] Melody Regent: Ok Jack, the hot topic of discussion for the last week has been this thing where some people are allowed to buy new homesteads that are grandfathered. You alluded to the fact that there is a beta program in place. That 75-80 estates are allowed to take place in this beta program and that it will be opened up more in 3 months time. Yay for the productive idea that GF sims can still be bought.
[11:11] Melody Regent: However, since the cat is out of the bag on this, we would like to know what this program is about. Who is in the beta program and just how were those estates chosen to be in the program? What is the current criteria to be in the beta program?
[11:11] Jack Linden: Prok, I'm not sure what more I can say about it.. I think someone did blog last weeks transcript.
[11:11] Prokofy Neva: Let me set up your answer for you Jack, "Linden Lab has always had conversations with various customers in the interests of making a more predictable Second Life experience for us all"
[11:11] Talarus Luan: hehe
[11:11] Prokofy Neva: well that transcript was such a kasha
[11:11] Prokofy Neva: could you just put in one line, what the deal is
[11:11] Prokofy Neva: "Big land barons get discounts at our discretion. Next?"
[11:11] Prokofy Neva: "Aspire to be one and shut up. Next?"
[11:11] Prokofy Neva: or how that works
[11:12] Prokofy Neva: I thik discounts for bulk purchases are a great thing, I just wish it was a button anyone could click
[11:12] Equinox Pinion: i talked with may estate owners...also big ones..they dont know anything about it jack
[11:12] Driftwood Miles: same here Equi
[11:12] Jack Linden: But as we'd previously talked about we're pushing to roll out a range of programs that help estates. So we've started with the top 80 or so estates and are working our way through. We expect to be able to offer all estates some form of these programs
[11:12] stormi Capalini: i have never heard of it. i was wondering how we know if we qualify
[11:12] Talarus Luan: ..or they can't talk about it.
[11:13] Trouble Streeter: so what's the cutoff between 80 and 81?
[11:13] Driftwood Miles: only one has stated publically to being involved and their Estate is a small one
[11:13] Melody Regent: Who is in the beta program and just how were those estates chosen to be in the program? What is the current criteria to be in the beta program?
[11:13] Prokofy Neva: How many mainland rental businesses are there, do you think Jack?
[11:13] LisaDeanna Zhora: prolly told to hush :)
[11:13] Equinox Pinion: how big do you have to be to qualify....what size does number 80 has
[11:13] stormi Capalini: how many regions does one need to own to be in the top 80?
[11:13] Melody Regent: what makes a large estate?
[11:13] Talarus Luan: Jack is typing, but I don't see words. :P
[11:13] Jack Linden: Part of those programs will be around discounting for bulk orders or for growth, promotion opportunities and so on.
[11:13] Jack Linden: Slight lag Tal I think
[11:13] Equinox Pinion: lol
[11:13] Driftwood Miles: Jack you arn't rolling out anything...your picking and choosing your bedfellows at the DETRIMANT to others
[11:13] Driftwood Miles: DETRIMENT
[11:14] Vanity Bonetto: give him a chance to answer, I think even Jack has only one keyboard ... :)
[11:14] Driftwood Miles: He needs a bigger boat
[11:14] Talarus Luan: Even I have two... <.<
[11:14] Prokofy Neva: I guess I don't mind if Jack picks bedfellows, I just hope he is picking GOOD bedfellows that one can say actually do help the economy and not just their own economy.
[11:14] Talarus Luan: Proky has 10
[11:14] Prokofy Neva: I have 14
[11:14] Techwolf Lupindo looks at the row of backup keyboard stack...
[11:14] Jack Linden: I think the 80 was something like 20 islands and above.
[11:14] Talarus Luan chuckles
[11:14] Melody Regent: What is the current criteria to be in the beta program?
[11:14] Prokofy Neva: I'm very small by contrast
[11:14] Trouble Streeter: 0.o
[11:14] Equinox Pinion: hmmm....
[11:14] Equinox Pinion: that cannot be
[11:15] Trouble Streeter looks around at the Estate owners gathered here...
[11:15] Melody Regent: Jack, I have loads more than 20, why was I not contacted?
[11:15] Equinox Pinion: many have more than 20 here
[11:15] Driftwood Miles: hmmm how can that be Jack
[11:15] Driftwood Miles: We do
[11:15] Equinox Pinion: i have much more than 20 LOL
[11:15] stormi Capalini: Well i have more than 20 and i haven't been notified. Do we put in a ticket for this service?
[11:15] Melody Regent: why dont we try over 80 here
[11:15] Trouble Streeter: can we try again on the number plz? kthx
[11:15] Prokofy Neva: If you have 100 islands, you don't need to come to Jack's office hours, you're already in the pink
[11:15] Trouble Streeter: not true, Prok
[11:15] Jack Linden: Melody, it's in process. So if you are that big then you should be hearing from us
[11:15] Equinox Pinion: i still have to prokofy...believe me lol
[11:15] Melody Regent: when?
[11:15] Driftwood Miles: lmao
[11:15] stormi Capalini: so if we have 100? We should bet at the top of that list?
[11:15] stormi Capalini: be at*
[11:16] Jack Linden: :) I'm not doing the calls myself Melody so I can't give you an exact time.
[11:16] Jack Linden: But soon
[11:16] Prokofy Neva: well Equinox, you know, I bet if you went to those Lindens now and told then you wanted to buy 100 homesteads, they could probably do something for you.
[11:16] Melody Regent: if 20 is the base then 80 should be at the top end.
[11:16] LisaDeanna Zhora: is that the "smaller estates" bit jack.. then 100 or less LOL
[11:16] Equinox Pinion: hwen the grid is full of grandfathered sims from the "special" ones melody :)
[11:16] Equinox Pinion: prokofy.....seems you dont know me :)
[11:16] Melody Regent: its 80 people Jack? How hard is it to send 80 emails out. Not 3 months. I can do it ina single day
[11:16] Zoha Boa: or is it based on the amount of tier you pay per month ? more then 10K us*?
[11:16] Prokofy Neva: if you only clear $17 a month on a homestead then you can't pay it pack for a year
[11:16] Driftwood Miles: So Jack this is being rolled out on a basis of how many sims you have?
[11:16] Melody Regent: meanwhile others are getting the advantage
[11:17] Driftwood Miles: is there a cut off?
[11:17] Jack Linden: To begin with Driftwood, yeah.. we needed to start somewhere and size of investment was a fair way to do it, bearing in mind that we just can't offer this to thousands of estates all at once.
[11:17] Trouble Streeter: perhaps the top 25 are supposed to get more of an advantage than the next 25, and so on?
[11:17] Prokofy Neva: You can't offer because of concurrency or because of cash flow?
[11:18] Equinox Pinion: but you didnt offer it to the 80 big ones yet
[11:18] stormi Capalini: is there a way for us to see who the top 80 estates are?
[11:18] Prokofy Neva: I guess you just follow your leaving tenants and see where they go, stormi
[11:18] Equinox Pinion: and btw...i think the small ones should et too somethng if hey bu alot at onces
[11:18] Melody Regent: But we are not talking about thousnads right now. we are however talking about 80, that doesnt seem like a massive task
[11:18] Driftwood Miles: land mass is nOT ameasure of investment Jack
[11:18] Jack Linden: Simply scaling Prokofy, this is about having a conversation with the estate owners, making sure we're meeting their needs and being clear with them on how this will work
[11:19] Techwolf Lupindo: Melody, to one person setting up the hardware, it is. :-)
[11:19] Trouble Streeter: and so it' s happening one owner at a time?
[11:19] Equinox Pinion: so how any di you talk already with?
[11:19] Jack Linden: Driftwood, we're taking into account that 1 Homestead is not equal to 1 full island
[11:19] LisaDeanna Zhora: oh i an say somethign on that jack
[11:19] Zoha Boa: so it is TIER Based
[11:19] Trouble Streeter: so it's a top 80 based on tier paid to LL?
[11:19] Melody Regent: Honestly, I dont think 80 will take advantage right aay, however letting the 80 know this is available and seeing who wants to opt in right away is a start
[11:19] Prokofy Neva: what is the total number of simulators at this time, and how many are full island and how many homesteads
[11:20] LisaDeanna Zhora: meeting our needs? when.. when some sim OVERload the servers and other sims lag on the count of it?!
[11:20] Equinox Pinion: so it is tier based...how much tier is number 80 payin`?
[11:20] Jack Linden: Trouble, no.. we've several members of staff ramping up the program. It's only just started, but those 80 should all have heard from us very soon.. then we'll roll on further
[11:20] Melody Regent: what is the tier amount you are looking at? If it is money being paid.
[11:20] Sunrunner Homewood: Jack are you talking 20 or more regions in general - including homesteads and possibly openspaces, or at least 20 full prim sims?
[11:21] Driftwood Miles: You said that about MOTD jack :(
[11:21] stormi Capalini: yes, i am not sure the difference between homestead tier and full prim tier. If the estate owner is paying LL 10,0000 USD a month
[11:21] Melody Regent: What is very soon and what is the 'minimun' paid that puts you in the beta?
[11:21] Trouble Streeter: Jack, if htey need help sending out emails, I've got time...
[11:21] stormi Capalini: opps 10,000 lol
[11:21] Equinox Pinion: again....how much tier do you hae to py to be in that program
[11:21] Motor Loon: (your mic is on driftwood)
[11:21] Jack Linden: Sunrunner, I expect it's FREs (full region equivalents), so a homestead will count as a partial full region
[11:21] Driftwood Miles: wow Stormi, you should be up with Anshe ;)
[11:21] Ciera Spyker: :)
[11:21] stormi Capalini: i wish lol
[11:21] stormi Capalini: typo there lol
[11:22] Driftwood Miles: Thanks :) Motor
[11:22] Equinox Pinion: LOL
[11:22] Jack Linden: Prokofy, I think we're at around 9700 homesteads,
[11:22] Shawno Sands: Jack do you have a LINK to this New Program?
[11:22] Jack Linden: ..and 13800 full regions
[11:22] Sunrunner Homewood: ok, ty for that info
[11:23] Prokofy Neva: and 5000 mainland?
[11:23] Jack Linden: 5300 or thereabouts
[11:23] Prokofy Neva: so the world did shrink
[11:23] Equinox Pinion: almsot 5400 i think prokofy
[11:23] Techwolf Lupindo: Can somebody do the math and figure out how many servers that is? I was wondering how many racks it would take to support that. :-)
[11:23] Jack Linden: Shawno.. not yet, but we'll be putting out more info, web page and so on.
[11:24] Melody Regent: oh hey Jack, thanks for having them send me the email about this, I just now got it. Glad I was added to the list
[11:24] Prokofy Neva: 8000 servers? or do they have 2 and not 4 on them?
[11:24] Equinox Pinion: you still didnt answer jack..how much tier do you need to pay to be in the 80 estates
[11:24] stormi Capalini runs to check her email lol
[11:24] Driftwood Miles: Jack, are you rolling this out on a "need to know basis" including NDA etc or are we going to have something published?
[11:24] LisaDeanna Zhora: safe to say 16K Prok :)
[11:24] Shawno Sands: Mel u just now got the Email. about the Program?
[11:24] Equinox Pinion: lol stormi
[11:24] Jack Linden: Melody, nothing to do woth me but that's pretty funny. As I said, we're getting through people fairly quickly
[11:25] stormi Capalini: oh my.. i got it too :-)
[11:25] Techwolf Lupindo: 4 full sims and about 8 to 16 homestead per server I think...
[11:25] Melody Regent: like 20 secnds ago
[11:25] stormi Capalini: yes lol
[11:25] Shawno Sands: ahh
[11:25] Equinox Pinion: than i should have one too lol
[11:25] stormi Capalini: hurry everyone check lol
[11:25] Talarus Luan: Easy to do the math: full regions/mainland / 4, Homesteads / 16 = # of servers, roughly
[11:25] Equinox Pinion: LOL!!!
[11:25] Jack Linden: Driftwood, we'll publish it.. I don't think it makes sense for a program like this to be under NDA other than perhaps in early discussions or beta
[11:26] Driftwood Miles: thank you
[11:26] Techwolf Lupindo: Why need beta? Its just a bulk discount. Every busness does that.
[11:26] Jack Linden: Equinox, it's not based on amount paid directly, but on FREs owned I believe
[11:27] Zoha Boa: how do you calculate the FRE ,
[11:27] Jack Linden: It's not Techwolf, there is more to it than that. We want to have more of a b2b relationship with customers.
[11:27] Prokofy Neva: Jack, can you tell me if this secret beta program with these big land barons is the *same* secret program with big land barons that I stumbled on that had a group where you were discussing the principles of zoning? Or is it yet another caper>?
[11:27] Equinox Pinion: so somene whohas 50 HS is not in the program????
[11:27] Driftwood Miles: Thats what we want Jack
[11:28] Prokofy Neva: are you cooking up another Nautilus type thing with expenso land and themes?
[11:28] Jack Linden: Prokofy, there was no caper, other than a conversation about zoning (something we talk about often). There is no secret Mainland project like that
[11:28] Driftwood Miles: it's a Beta :P
[11:29] Prokofy Neva: but there was a secret group
[11:29] Equinox Pinion: but you do announce themed mainland on the website
[11:29] Talarus Luan: Closed beta. :)
[11:29] Driftwood Miles: lol TAL
[11:29] Trouble Streeter: heh
[11:29] Prokofy Neva: well are you laying on another Nautilus type continent or?
[11:29] Jack Linden: Totally driftwood, and of course moving to more of an account manager mode with big customers takes time
[11:29] Talarus Luan: Well, that's what it boils down to
[11:30] Melody Regent: Jack, let me ask you something then. Since GF HS are still able to be purchased from you. Noone would dare keep buying 100s of new ones with the price going up in a few montsh. So with that said, are you all seeng a stability in the HS market. Not just financially but in grid stablity and will you go ahead and leave the current pricing in place. Yes, I know you will not say yay or nay right now, but is it something you are considering
[11:30] Prokofy Neva: /wonders what account manager mode actually involves
[11:30] Jack Linden: Zoning is very popular.. the secondary market, the rate of churn, the retention rates are all much better in those themed areas like Nautilus
[11:31] Jack Linden: And we know we have a real problem area when it comes to getting new residents onto the land ownership ladder
[11:31] stormi Capalini: Yes, Melody. Good question. For those that own homesteads and not knowing for sure if the tier will increase. It causes uncertaining in planning for the future growth.
[11:31] Jack Linden: So we want to make changes that help to bring more people into land ownership
[11:31] Talarus Luan: yeah, that's because people are still trying to squeeze L$100/sqm out of their speculator plots in them. >.>
[11:31] Prokofy Neva: well, uh, at $55,000 or more a pop, I wouldn't expect "churn" Jack. This is not Babayashut we're talking about. And a lot of pepole are frozen (like me) because of big tall ugly tower builds or ugly other crap in the air. Can't you zone this stuff next time, no tall towers and spinning crap in the air
[11:31] Talarus Luan: Tier's the same; they can wait until the sun burns itself out to make book, or so they think
[11:32] Prokofy Neva: *Babayagashut
[11:32] Jack Linden: Melody, I think that's a fair point and we are thinking about that. The land market has become fairly stable again and we're very reluctant to make it wobble again
[11:32] Melody Regent: if we knew sooner than later if the GF would stay or not would make a HUGE differnce in my explansion program
[11:32] Equinox Pinion: i dont think the tier system keeps people away from buying mainland jack....it is the service the private estates offer people you dont do
[11:32] Jack Linden: Babayaga's hut! wasn't that a D&D item (tries to remember that far back)
[11:33] Jack Linden: ?
[11:33] Talarus Luan: Stable at <L$2/sqm :)
[11:33] Prokofy Neva: Well, Jack. As I often say, we've *been* zoning the mainland here for years and years. Glad you've joined us, even if belatedly : )
[11:33] Talarus Luan: Babayaga's hut is a RL legend.
[11:33] Talarus Luan: Co-opted by D&D, like so much mythology.
[11:33] Prokofy Neva: However, you're now going to compete with us your customers again and kills us. Why do you do that Jack? We pay you money. New people will never pay quite as much as old people, when you get down to it, until yo ubreak them in over a few years lol.
[11:34] Jack Linden: by the way, the number of 16m parcels for sale on the Mainland is now down to 3400, the lowest it's been in a very long time indeed
[11:34] Jack Linden: So it's still coming down
[11:34] Talarus Luan: Yeah, still some holdouts
[11:34] Bronson Blackadder: yay
[11:34] Prokofy Neva: Babayagashut is the name of a mainland sim where I have some of my rentals but of course, it was a sim where somebody put up some gigantic ugly tower and blocked progress for a year
[11:34] Equinox Pinion: thats great progress jack
[11:34] Talarus Luan: Good ol' Gold Coins at L$9900/16
[11:34] Qie Niangao: oh, speaking of 16s: will you guys please foreclose on MyADCOM, now that it has no donated tier?
[11:34] Driftwood Miles: Excellent
[11:35] Jack Linden: 10-12 weeks ago it was at about 8000 so pretty happy with that trend
[11:35] Prokofy Neva: Even Chrischun Fassbinder is out of the people list, and his land is seized by Governor Linden, never though I'd see the day when I began playing Strategic SL in 2004.
[11:35] Talarus Luan: You can put in tickets for his 16s now
[11:35] Prokofy Neva: Gold Coins is still very much present, so the 3400 must all be by my land
[11:35] Talarus Luan: I just did
[11:35] Jack Linden: The volume of Mainland for sale is also still coming down
[11:36] Prokofy Neva: Well Jack be truthful about that now, that's because entire swathes aren't sold now, but are ABANDONED and you even label them Zindra abandoned. How many of THOSE do you have? Not to mention ad farm abandoned.
[11:36] Talarus Luan: Jack, question on the lapsed premium account purge issue: when did the policy change? and can we be certain that our inv won't get nuked now if our premium lapses?
[11:37] Khamon Fate: A more accurate stat would be the percentage of Mainland owned by Linden Lab
[11:37] Vanity Bonetto: Jack is it really so hard to make a clear statement about the planned tier increase for homesteads ? with a clear "NO" to it I would stand up now and go shopping tons of sims but I refuse to add only one more HS to my estate before I know what will be ... ?
[11:37] Khamon Fate: If that's descreasing, good, if increasing, maybe not so good
[11:37] Talarus Luan: Versus non-saleable owned by LL (roads, waterways, etc)
[11:37] Prokofy Neva: yes Khamon too true
[11:37] Equinox Pinion: it was 35% about 9 month ago...guess that wnt up
[11:37] Jack Linden: The volume of abandoned land (as a ratio to the total amount of land) hasn't risen, but of course as we add land like Zindra the sq m that is abandoned does rise.
[11:38] Prokofy Neva: no Jack that's not what I mean at all
[11:38] Qie Niangao: Tal: good question... counter to what I understood from last week, it appears that http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-1961 ("Premium accounts that miss payments to LL risk having the account & inventory getting deleted") has not been resolved... it might need a "push""
[11:38] Khamon Fate: If it was 35%, then it's down to 30% now
[11:38] Khamon Fate: That's good if no Mainland sims have been taken offline
[11:38] Prokofy Neva: there is more abandoned land on the grid, we all see it. And you even label it "Zindra abandoned," i.e. they left mature to go to adult. so you know how much those parcels are, you are labeling them even
[11:38] Jack Linden: Vanity, I agree that we should let people know well in advance. My hope is to get agreement and to give a clear statement early in the new year
[11:38] Talarus Luan: Well, Jack said last week "we don't do that anymore". I wanted to know 1) since when, and 2) are you absolutely certain?
[11:38] Vanity Bonetto: thanks Jack
[11:39] Khamon Fate: Do what Talarus?
[11:39] Jack Linden: Tal, I think we made that change about 2 months ago. So yes, I believe that Inv gets retained for folks going delinquent now
[11:39] Khamon Fate: Oh, that's nice
[11:39] Zoha Boa: how do you calculate the ERP (formula?), and what is the minimum value of the ERP to be in the beta program?
[11:39] Rihanna Laasonen: Your support people don't that, Jack.
[11:39] stormi Capalini: Jack do you understand that we are afraid to purchase homesteads because of the difference in tiers? we could purchase them left and right if we knew the tier wasn't going to increase in July.
[11:40] Qie Niangao: I think Misc-1961 status suggests otherwise, though, as do some recent Forums posts.
[11:40] Talarus Luan: OK, so if someone's inv gets purged now, what can be done to restore it?
[11:40] Rihanna Laasonen: As of this time last month, all your support docs and your billing people were still saying
[11:40] Rihanna Laasonen: that lapsed premiums would have their inventory deleted after 5 weeks.
[11:40] Talarus Luan: (ie, are you making backups "just in case" someone didn't "get the memo"?)
[11:40] Driftwood Miles: Anshe has plenty Homesteads to satisfy demand :)
[11:41] Equinox Pinion: i dont think you hae to be afraid stormi...there is no way they will increase them to 125 usd
[11:41] Khamon Fate: Where's my coffee?
[11:41] Motor Loon grins
[11:41] LisaDeanna Zhora: LL has backups.. we keep getting told they do not.. what multi $$$ company wouldnt?!
[11:41] Jack Linden: Stormi, and that's a compelling reason for us to make a decision and announce it. :) As soon as we feel able to commit to a decision we will
[11:41] Talarus Luan: I thought you only drank "green" tea? :D
[11:41] stormi Capalini: i am verry afraid, Equinox. i have quiet of them.
[11:41] Jack Linden: But I totally get what you're saying
[11:41] stormi Capalini: Thank you, Jack
[11:41] Zoha Boa: jack, how do you calculate the ERP (formula?), and what is the minimum value of the ERP to be in the beta program?
[11:41] Driftwood Miles: ERP?
[11:42] Equinox Pinion: they cannot afford another fiasko stormi..and it would be one next july if they dont step back
[11:42] Zoha Boa: FRE*
[11:42] stormi Capalini: i pray you are right, Equinox
[11:42] Jack Linden: Zoha, do you mean in terms of the estate programs?
[11:42] Equinox Pinion: :)
[11:42] Zoha Boa: yes
[11:42] stormi Capalini smiles
[11:42] Talarus Luan: Heh.. They can afford fiascos... they practically manufacture them. :D
[11:42] Prokofy Neva: You know, I'm afraid it could work quite the opposite, they can't afford NOT to have another fiasco, as the past fiascos were driven from all appearances by a need for cash flow.
[11:42] Alexxa Despres: LOL Tal
[11:42] Equinox Pinion: lol tal
[11:43] Jack Linden: I believe the criteria they are using is the number of 'full region equivalents'. You can think of it as the number of CPUs if that makes it easier. So a homestead would be 0.25 whereas a full region would be 1
[11:43] Equinox Pinion: ohh...i just got an email too zoha :)
[11:43] Vanity Bonetto: makes sense to me
[11:43] Talarus Luan: So, 80 homesteads would be 20
[11:43] Zoha Boa: and what has the end result need to be to be in the program ?
[11:43] Melody Regent: woot Equi
[11:43] stormi Capalini: woohoo we are moving on up, Equinox!
[11:44] Equinox Pinion: lol
[11:44] Alexxa Despres: <<still waiting on an e-mail
[11:44] Jack Linden: Ah in fact, correction.. we're counting 3 homesteads = 1 full region
[11:44] Jack Linden: 4 openspaces = 1 full region
[11:44] Sunrunner Homewood: Out of curiosity do Openspaces fall into that equation, and if so, how?
[11:44] Shawno Sands: <- waiting
[11:44] Equinox Pinion: but i o hope you will consider small estates too jack :P
[11:44] Melody Regent: that was what I was going to ask Jack, thank you
[11:44] Sunrunner Homewood: k, there you go
[11:44] Jack Linden: so that's the way they are calculating it
[11:44] Zoha Boa: what has tobe the minimum value to be in the program?
[11:44] Sunrunner Homewood: well how can an HSand an OS both be equivalent to 0.25 CPU?
[11:44] Talarus Luan: So, full region = 1, Homestead = 1/3, and OpenSpace = 1/4
[11:45] Jack Linden: that's right Tal
[11:45] Sunrunner Homewood: Quoting here "
[11:43] Jack Linden: I believe the criteria they are using is the number of 'full region equivalents'. You can think of it as the number of CPUs if that makes it easier. So a homestead would be 0.25 whereas a full region would be 1"
[11:45] Talarus Luan: So, what's the target FRE value for beta?
[11:45] Barney Stinson: Sunrunner, that was corrected a few lines down
[11:46] stormi Capalini: Jack do you see LL lowering the tier to the openspaces being they are really used for additional water only?
[11:46] Equinox Pinion: btw....have you any plans to put only 3 HS on a CPU jack...or will it stay 4
[11:46] Sunrunner Homewood: k, ty Barney
[11:44] Jack Linden: Ah in fact, correction.. we're counting 3 homesteads = 1 full region
[11:44] Jack Linden: 4 openspaces = 1 full region
[11:46] Melody Regent: and the fact you cant deed them to a group making them nearly useless
[11:46] Driftwood Miles: Jack corrected Bronson 3:1
[11:46] Vanity Bonetto: <--- afk, sim counting
[11:46] Equinox Pinion: hmm..how many "openspaces" are on the grid jack
[11:46] Jack Linden: Stormi, we've no plans in that direction right now. But others have made that same point
[11:46] Bronson Blackadder: yep
[11:47] stormi Capalini: they are wonderful for additional water to an estate. But can't rent them or anything. So the estate eats the tier on the OS
[11:47] Khamon Fate: Well, no, LL actually do better to make estates and homesteads very expensive for individuals and relatively cheap for large continental barons. That way they only have to deal with a few "customers" and those baronial staffs have to deal with the rest of us.
[11:47] Jack Linden: Tal, i think the cutoff is 20
[11:47] Talarus Luan: OK, that should answer folks' questions, then
[11:47] Jack Linden: Last time I looked there were about 250 openspaces
[11:47] Talarus Luan: Other than "I exceed 20! Why wasn't I included?"
[11:47] stormi Capalini: Thank you, Jack
[11:47] Equinox Pinion: ok thanks
[11:48] Talarus Luan: ..which is a valid question. Not intending to demean it; just being proper. :)
[11:48] Khamon Fate: 20 seems kind of low
[11:48] Equinox Pinion: yousaid ones you want to make new sims...any news on that jack
[11:48] Khamon Fate: to me
[11:48] stormi Capalini: Any chance at all of making a new region with 7500 prims?
[11:48] Jack Linden: No Equinox, no news as far as new products go.
[11:48] Driftwood Miles: there should not be a cut off just a policy
[11:48] stormi Capalini: i get so many wanting/needing 7500 prims but 15,000 is too many
[11:49] Equinox Pinion: ok thanks
[11:49] Motor Loon: We seems to have seen a lot of tech issues lately Jack - after what I recall as a nice long period of a calm grid, is there's a reason for that or is it just one of those wierd flukes?
[11:49] Ciera Spyker: 1024sims please
[11:49] Khamon Fate: That ain't gonna happen Ciera
[11:49] Ciera Spyker: (knows)
[11:49] LisaDeanna Zhora: yah really
[11:49] Milano Ferrentino: I cast another vote for a 7500 prim sim. Very much needed.
[11:49] Equinox Pinion: true motor...sims FPS dropping for no reason...happends often lately
[11:49] stormi Capalini: yes, very much so
[11:50] Melody Regent: Yes Jack, there seesm to be LOADS more grid issues of late. We were in heaven for a while and now it seems that there is a new issue daily again
[11:50] Jack Linden: Motor, great question. We have had hugely better stability overall in 09, but we're constantly working on the infrastructure so we do hit issues. And sometimes providers that we use have issues that impact us too
[11:50] Equinox Pinion: well....questions....what tier will they ask for if a 3750 prim one is 125 usd :)
[11:50] Khamon Fate: I thought Homesteads should've been reduced to running 3 to a processor when the price increased
[11:50] Khamon Fate: but that ain't gonna happen either
[11:50] Khamon Fate: A new offering of 2 to a processor and supporting 7500 prims might be nice though
[11:51] Talarus Luan: For a 7500 prim one? Prolly $195
[11:51] stormi Capalini: I could buy those all day long, Khamon.
[11:51] Motor Loon: I remember reading about internal fiberoptics being set up, is that still in progress - or not started yet - or have we / will we see/feel a difference as a result of this upgrade?
[11:51] Jack Linden: That's not totally off the table Khamon, but oit's a big investment to do it.
[11:51] stormi Capalini: if the price was 500 usd
[11:51] Equinox Pinion: lol stromi
[11:51] Talarus Luan: The fibernet thing is done
[11:51] Shawno Sands: Just a FYI for u all, LL does NOT control there Band, the Provider does, , ( they need a OC-192 Upgrade ) i think
[11:52] Jack Linden: Khamon, that's interesting.. do you think it sufficiently different to sit as a product between full regions and homesteads?
[11:52] Khamon Fate: I think that'd be the safest way for y'all to market it.
[11:52] Bronson Blackadder: you can call it urban
[11:52] Melody Regent: Yes Jack, I do
[11:52] Equinox Pinion: many people would lovea 7500 sim jack...with th righttier of course :)
[11:52] Melody Regent: I think ALOT of 7500 sims would be sold
[11:52] Jack Linden: A Burbclave product hehe
[11:52] Sunrunner Homewood: Not to stir the pot, but.... is anything being done about viewers being able to bypass estate bans?
[11:52] Motor Loon agrees
[11:52] Trouble Streeter: it would be a wonderful addition to the options!
[11:52] stormi Capalini: Yes, i would LOVE regions with 7500 prims
[11:52] Shawno Sands: I agree Mel.
[11:53] Melody Regent: I could sell loads of them
[11:53] LisaDeanna Zhora: stir it I want to know also
[11:53] stormi Capalini: yes Mel
[11:53] Vanity Bonetto: yeah, sign me in too :)
[11:53] Equinox Pinion: me too :)
[11:53] Driftwood Miles: Would you be able to purchase one without owning a full prim sim?
[11:53] Melody Regent: OK Jack, that is settled. When you are done here, go tell the team to get going on the 7500 prim sims. Thanks lovesya
[11:53] Equinox Pinion: good questions drifwood :)
[11:53] Shawno Sands: AHHAahHAHahAHHA
[11:53] Shawno Sands: *-*r0fl*-*
[11:53] Vanity Bonetto: lol to Melody
[11:53] Equinox Pinion: lol melody
[11:53] Driftwood Miles: one step away from making full sims obsolete
[11:54] Jack Linden: Sunrunner, yeah we're aware of it and as estate bans should be a server side control we'll be looking at fixing it
[11:54] Ciera Spyker: driftwood is thinking like me.
[11:54] Melody Regent: no, I htink full sim ownership should always be a requiermet
[11:54] stormi Capalini: its obvious by the popularity of Homesteads people want privacy. But for 7500 prims they have to have neighbors. This is the reason i dont do well filling full prims. They want privacy and control. 7500 prims would take care of this and more affordable.
[11:54] Jack Linden: heh thanks Melody
[11:54] Equinox Pinion: agree driftwood
[11:54] LisaDeanna Zhora: i have an idea on HOW to fic it
[11:54] LisaDeanna Zhora: fix*
[11:54] Motor Loon: Full sims wont go obsolete - hell, I can still run low on prims just playing around with 15K prims
[11:54] LisaDeanna Zhora: kill all 3rd partty viewers
[11:54] Jack Linden: So this 7500 prim product, you'd still see that having a lock in with a full region owned?
[11:54] Driftwood Miles: And Anshe would be so pissed, seeing as she has just forked out a ton on 3750's
[11:55] Melody Regent: yes Jack
[11:55] Shawno Sands: yesah >^.^< Jack
[11:55] Talarus Luan: I haven't looked, but please don't tell me that bans work by the sim telling the viewer "you can't be here", and the viewer going "OK, I'll leave"... >.>
[11:55] stormi Capalini: Yes, Jack. I dont think that should ever change
[11:55] Khamon Fate: how to fic it ha ha ha ha ha
[11:55] Melody Regent: that shuls ALWAYS be the base
[11:55] Equinox Pinion: yes jack..or do you want to deal with 1000 of new customers lol
[11:55] stormi Capalini: a full prim purchase first and always
[11:55] Trouble Streeter: yes. you ought to have to own a full to own anything else
[11:55] Driftwood Miles: Until someone asks for a 10k sim
[11:55] Khamon Fate: Anshe wouldn't have to worry; LL would convert for her
[11:55] LisaDeanna Zhora: read again Khamon I corrected it
[11:55] Vanity Bonetto: yes to stormi
[11:56] Sunrunner Homewood: actually, i'd image there's also demand for new class of server that can be used for more prims per region and/or handle a much higher prim load - maybe a 256m by 512m region in essence as well
[11:56] Zoha Boa: Jack, I have a support ticket open for the accounting department since august the 9th (+2 months); still saying work in progress, nothing has been done up to now... What do i need to do to get an answer on it?
[11:56] stormi Capalini: it keeps the cluless out and helps the rest of us
[11:56] Khamon Fate: It was still funny
[11:56] LisaDeanna Zhora: i know silly :)
[11:56] Driftwood Miles: would prefer a sim four times the land mass but 30,000 prims
[11:56] Driftwood Miles: swings in roundabouts
[11:56] Equinox Pinion: fill a complain ticket zoha..that helps :)
[11:56] stormi Capalini: lol
[11:56] Milano Ferrentino: I agree with keeping the current full sim requirement before being able to buy lesser sims.
[11:56] Jack Linden: what about if we allowed an estate owner to sacrifice say agent count for more prims? If it were more of a menu based pricing?
[11:56] Equinox Pinion: great idea jack
[11:57] stormi Capalini: depends on the agent count
[11:57] LisaDeanna Zhora: not a good idea jack
[11:57] Driftwood Miles: sounds good Jack
[11:57] Shawno Sands: that would work also Jack
[11:57] Sunrunner Homewood: Good to hear that about the estate ban issue Jack - any kind of an estimated time of reslolution?
[11:57] LisaDeanna Zhora: might as well buy a HS then
[11:57] Aimee Trescothick: can I have extra cheese on mine?
[11:57] Trouble Streeter: would confuse people more than they already are sometimes
[11:57] Talarus Luan: Why not just sell a la carte computing resources? Wait.. you can't do that with the way the sim software is designed... <.<
[11:57] Equinox Pinion: if you can do it also temporary...let say for 3 months or so
[11:57] Melody Regent: I wold never get a sim that had more than 15K prims but that is just me
[11:57] Sunrunner Homewood: *a much higher script load, i meant to say
[11:57] Shawno Sands: Cut Avi Limit to 20-30 for 7500 Prims 65536sqm
[11:57] Khamon Fate: That would work for me actually, I could stand 5000 prims and a 15 av limit for example on my Homestead.
[11:57] Jack Linden: Sunrunner sadly not, but i will poke at it
[11:57] Melody Regent: yes Shawno, 30 max
[11:57] Equinox Pinion: agree melody...lag is the problem
[11:57] stormi Capalini: i thought you agreed on the 7500 prims Melody?
[11:58] Melody Regent: yes give me the 7500 prims
[11:58] Melody Regent: I will order 10 today
[11:58] Driftwood Miles: Land mass is the key to livening the market up.
[11:58] stormi Capalini: oh okay. .me tooooo
[11:58] Khamon Fate: Aren't av limits for Homesteads already set at 20?
[11:58] Melody Regent: but no 30k prims, never no way
[11:58] Driftwood Miles: More space...
[11:58] Shawno Sands: same here Mel.. i would get 5-10 today
[11:58] Bronson Blackadder: add a scaler slider to the estate.. move it to the left to decrease agents add more prims.. move it to the right less prims more agents
[11:58] stormi Capalini: no i dont want more than 15,000 prims. Hard to rent those already lol
[11:58] Zoha Boa: 7500prims/40avs would be perfect
[11:58] Bronson Blackadder: same cost
[11:58] Ciera Spyker: i could use a few 30k ones.
[11:58] Equinox Pinion: agree zoha
[11:58] stormi Capalini: agreee Zoha
[11:58] Driftwood Miles: 30k but on four times the land mass ie four sims
[11:58] Melody Regent: yes Zoha, I can go for that
[11:59] Equinox Pinion: with a normal price and tier :P
[11:59] stormi Capalini: yes :-)
[11:59] Khamon Fate: A hardcoded slider is perfect, same price, even if I change it one week for events and the next week for building
[11:59] stormi Capalini: half price of a 15,000 purchase price and tier
[11:59] Melody Regent: Jack, you just make the comany 500K usd today in sales. When can we see the product?
[11:59] Shawno Sands: tier a 7500 prim sim @ 195.00? or Less
[11:59] Jack Linden: It would be an interesting thing to discuss, the idea that you guys can choose how to spend your cpu cycles up to a certain limit, for each product. So if you wanted to spend it all on agents but no prims and no physics, you could choose that yourself
[11:59] Zoha Boa: 500 to buy 195 tier
[11:59] Equinox Pinion: 195 USD is too much
[11:59] stormi Capalini: 175
[11:59] Jack Linden: Or 1 agent and 20k prims etc
[11:59] stormi Capalini: yes
[12:00] Zoha Boa: we need to make money ; not to cheap; lol
[12:00] Equinox Pinion: 165 or 175 agree melody
[12:00] Khamon Fate: That's a bit more customization and client support than LL are used to providing though. It comes dangerously close to an API. Your World, Your Imagination *is* just a slogan.
[12:00] Melody Regent: Make me a Linden *bursts out laughing*
[12:00] Equinox Pinion: and500 to buy
[12:00] Talarus Luan: No physics wouldn't be a good idea. :P
[12:00] Barney Stinson: There shoudl be a slider bar... Agents===== === Prims
[12:00] LisaDeanna Zhora: oh yah.. 1 agent and 20K prims.. just how many of you need traffic?
[12:00] Equinox Pinion: 2 on a CPU
[12:00] Shawno Sands: Votes for Mel
[12:00] Equinox Pinion: 40 agents
[12:00] Bronson Blackadder: lol
[12:00] Qie Niangao: so, I just want to raise the possibility of 3750 or 7500 prim sims to individuals without a full sim, but at a higher monthly price than to full-sim estates. Not of interest to me, but may make business sense for LL without hurting Estates.
[12:01] Bronson Blackadder: 1 agent
[12:01] Bronson Blackadder: lol
[12:01] Bronson Blackadder: lol
[12:01] Driftwood Miles: this is curning on a huge scale
[12:01] Bronson Blackadder: lol
[12:01] Jack Linden: Yeah Barney, that sort of tradeoff. Full region would have much more to play with of course
[12:01] Driftwood Miles: churning
[12:01] Equinox Pinion: so jack...can you make that happend till next week *g*
[12:01] LisaDeanna Zhora: read what jack said
[12:01] Driftwood Miles: same thing as Open Space to homesteads
[12:01] Driftwood Miles: everyone was so angry at that change
[12:01] Melody Regent: No Que, full sim requirment should stay in place
[12:01] Jack Linden: hehe equinox
[12:01] Khamon Fate: Remember Qie, they don't want a repeat of thousands of people buying and "abusing" low cost sims.
[12:01] Driftwood Miles: now we want to go again?
[12:01] Equinox Pinion: :)
[12:02] Prokofy Neva: Land mass isn't the key to livening the economy, people are. Are there new sign-ups? when's that brave new viewer coming online that is supposed to cause a surge in sign-ups?
[12:02] Jack Linden: Okay guys, I should head back to my holiday.. thank you all for coming along, some really interesting ideas this week
[12:02] Rihanna Laasonen: But didn't that abuse happen even with the full-sim ownership limit in place? Or am I misremembering?
[12:02] Khamon Fate: Thanks for hosting Jack
[12:02] Talarus Luan: Ciao, Jack.
[12:02] Trouble Streeter: thanks, Jack!!
[12:02] Driftwood Miles: Thank you Jack
[12:02] Equinox Pinion: take care jack
[12:02] Motor Loon: Yes, go rest old man ;)
[12:02] Melody Regent: We wil be here again Next Week jack. Enjoy the holiday
[12:02] Jack Linden: hehe
[12:02] Jack Linden: well..
[12:02] Trouble Streeter: enjoy the vaca :)
[12:02] Alexxa Despres: Still no e-mail , Jack
[12:02] Ciera Spyker: :) bye
[12:02] Zoha Boa: take care
[12:02] Bronson Blackadder: thank you jack :) look at my resume I turned in
[12:02] Khamon Fate: It did yes, might be loads worse if just anybody could rent them though
[12:03] Jack Linden: i won't be here next week. I am having my first break in about 2 years
[12:03] Khamon Fate: BUY I should say BUY
[12:03] Khamon Fate: We own these sims yeah?
[12:03] Jack Linden: so I will be somewhere without an internet connection
[12:03] Khamon Fate: WE OWN THIS LAND!!1
[12:03] Jack Linden: which is terrifying
[12:03] Prokofy Neva: oh that sounds great!
[12:03] Talarus Luan: We will send you one anyway :D
[12:03] Vanity Bonetto: must be a scary place Jack
[12:03] Sunrunner Homewood: Take care Jack, have a good one
[12:03] Shawno Sands: Thanks Jack
[12:03] Melody Regent: I bought a laptop just for SL
[12:03] Driftwood Miles: Enjoy Jack
[12:03] Trouble Streeter: augh!! good luck Jack :)
[12:03] Zoha Boa: good luck over there, lol
[12:03] Jack Linden: be well folks, see you in two weeks
[12:03] Driftwood Miles: you must be going to Newcastle
[12:03] Jack Linden: heh
[12:03] Talarus Luan: It could be worse; you could have to spend your vacation digitized into SL :D
[12:03] Ciera Spyker giggles.
[12:03] Prokofy Neva: taking any coals?
[12:03] Khamon Fate: Who is this Prokofy person that keeps butting into the conversation?
[12:04] Jack Linden: byeeeeee
[12:04] Ciera Spyker: and hes gone...
[12:04] Talarus Luan: Yeah, I didn't see much fire and brimstone today.. Prokofy, I swear you're going soft! :D
[12:04] Prokofy Neva: I'm having to work in the other window
[12:04] LisaDeanna Zhora: lol
[12:04] Khamon Fate: We're all soft.
[12:04] Melody Regent: office guys
[12:04] Prokofy Neva: don['t quit that day job would be my advice
[12:05] Trouble Streeter: heading back to the office...
[12:05] Trouble Streeter: see ya there :)
[12:05] Khamon Fate: It's not worth being all Intrawebz over.
[12:05] Talarus Luan: yeah, but Prokofy was almost downright cuddly today. :D
[12:05] Ciera Spyker: bye byes
[12:05] Khamon Fate: I was working too
[12:05] Khamon Fate: but then I drank some coffee
[12:06] Zoha Boa: bye everyone
[12:06] Sunrunner Homewood: take care everyone, back to the sandbars
[12:06] Bronson Blackadder: I think a hard coded slider would really work
[12:06] Khamon Fate: Me too, that's a great idea

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