Open Source Meeting/2008-10-23

[14:01] Khyota Wulluf: even soft is one
[14:01] Kerry Giha: I wouldn't mind if my RL name was this
[14:01] Squirrel Wood: Hello Soft ^^
[14:01] Kerry Giha: Hello Soft :)
[14:01] Geneko Nemeth: i would really want to change my Sl name - and - my RL name.
[14:01] Aimee Trescothick: hey soft :)
[14:02] Soft Linden: Hey hey hey!
[14:02] Robin Cornelius: Hi Soft
[14:02] Carjay McGinnis: Hello Soft
[14:02] Carjay McGinnis: the pumpkin herder
[14:02] Soft Linden: So - I'm not 100% up on what's going on today - Rob might not be making it today.
[14:02] Soft Linden: jas - pinging people on IRC
[14:02] Squirrel Wood: Soft, how hard would it be to add an autoperformance setting to the client where you say "keep my framerate at n fps" and the client adjusts graphics settings to do just that ?
[14:03] Khyota Wulluf: or how about vsync
[14:03] Soft Linden: Squirrel - probably very easy to do for downward speed adjustment, hard for upward.
[14:03] Soft Linden: I'd propose something like that on sldev to get the discussion going. Brad and a couple other graphics devs watch the list
[14:04] Squirrel Wood: hee
[14:04] Carjay McGinnis: a nice idea actually
[14:04] Aimee Trescothick: vsync would be nice
[14:04] Khyota Wulluf: i had another issue with maint-render-8 diffenrt but quite similar
[14:04] Squirrel Wood: I'm not on sldev so I'll create a feature request for it
[14:04] Carjay McGinnis: vsync?
[14:04] Soft Linden: I've often wanted something just to lock my framerate -downward- ... I don't need anything over 10 if I'm on my laptop and more worried about battery life.
[14:04] Aimee Trescothick: I see a lot of horizontal tearing on pans
[14:04] Khyota Wulluf: especialy with video capture
[14:05] Carjay McGinnis: guess you mean the trick where you turn in on if the framerate gets too low
[14:05] Carjay McGinnis: oh, ok
[14:05] Khyota Wulluf: video capture program can lock framerate too
[14:05] Soft Linden: Sure, vsync makes it so the window is only updated when the monitor is being updated outside the range of the window, basically.
[14:05] Soft Linden: So you don't see half of one frame, and half of the next frame for a very long time.
[14:05] Kerry Giha: 1.1: AFK a moment, work.
[14:05] Carjay McGinnis: yes, but it also causes framerate to suffer if you're not rendering fast enough
[14:06] Soft Linden: The up side is it eliminates "tearing" when the frame is updated mid-way through. The down side is that if it takes more than 1 frame to draw, you have to wait for the extra partial frame to pass before you can update. So 58fps becomes 30fps. Or 29fps becomes 20. And so on.
[14:06] Carjay McGinnis: yep
[14:06] Geneko Nemeth: Or happen to be a bit less than an integer fraction of the monitor refresh speed.
[14:06] Soft Linden: Basically it forces the framerate, in practice, to be evenly divided into the monitor refresh rate.
[14:06] Soft Linden: Yus.
[14:07] Soft Linden: Anyway - started saying - looks like I'm it for today. But we can still get through a few things. As usual, a transcript will be posted, so don't say anything you wouldnt' want your mom to hear.
[14:07] Soft Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Meeting/Agenda
[14:07] Khyota Wulluf: course
[14:08] Soft Linden: Agenda's above, there.
[14:08] Soft Linden: Hoo boy. http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-1728
[14:08] Carjay McGinnis: hehe
[14:08] Khyota Wulluf: it doenst get much better then that
[14:08] Soft Linden: I'm thinking - maybe we postpone this one, wait for it to get a bit more feedback. We're scratching our heads over that... more lost than we started.
[14:09] Soft Linden: By the end of next week, I reckon we'll have a really clear answer. Maybe you can bring a few items to repro this in front of other Lindens as well
[14:09] Soft Linden: Remind me - and I'll make sure the land's set build-okay for that with a reasonable autoreturn time. :)
[14:09] Kerry Giha: There was a suggestion earlier about adding a pumpkin fix to the pie menu
[14:09] Carjay McGinnis: I'm concerned that it affects server racks though
[14:09] Soft Linden: Yus. Could use a bit more spice.
[14:10] Soft Linden: I didn't understand Neuro's response at -all-. But then again - they eat sheep stomach over there as well.
[14:10] Soft Linden: The other issue was - Any news on the Space Navigator patch bundle? [VWR-8465]
[14:10] Carjay McGinnis: so I heard
[14:10] Aimee Trescothick: snuck that on there at the last moment sorry, should have given time to get an update
[14:10] Soft Linden: So it looks like virtually all of these have passed QA internally
[14:10] Aimee Trescothick: but I keep getting bugged by people about it lol
[14:11] Soft Linden: All good :)
[14:11] Khyota Wulluf: i love my spacenav
[14:11] Aimee Trescothick: great :)
[14:11] Soft Linden: I'm looking at what branch it's in - you can probably test this by building one of the svn branches
[14:11] Kerry Giha: I loves the space nav too.
[14:11] Khyota Wulluf: ive been using that patch now
[14:11] Khyota Wulluf: it be great if it finaly made it into a branch
[14:12] Carjay McGinnis: I should get one to see what it's like
[14:12] Soft Linden: Internally, this is in the morejoy-1 branch. Looks like one issue failed QA, and Tofu is gone this week and next.
[14:12] Khyota Wulluf: Speaking of branches i havent seen OpenAL updated in a while.
[14:12] Soft Linden: If you'd like, I can export this branch so you can play with it in the interim?
[14:12] Carjay McGinnis: morejoy-1 cool name
[14:12] Aimee Trescothick: ok, any idea which failed?
[14:12] Soft Linden: looking
[14:12] Aimee Trescothick: heh
[14:12] Soft Linden: VWR-6550
[14:13] Soft Linden: Fails Second Life 1.20.15 (98365) Oct 2 2008 04:01:05 (Second Life Release)
Space navigator is acting, untouched, as if it has constant upward pull. It sets the avatar to "Fly". the up indicator on screen constantly blinks "up", and the UI is not usable without hotkey knowledge
I did make attempts to adjust the axis settings but was unable to stop the flying.
I did insure nothing was touching the space navigator, and I pushed, pulled and tilted it to insure nothing outside its own settings was influencing its movement. My avatar was also not wearing anything (ie a hud) that would have influence.
[14:13] Soft Linden: Those are the fix-fail notes
[14:13] Soft Linden: I'll push that to the external issue
[14:13] Aimee Trescothick: odd
[14:13] Aimee Trescothick: thanks
[14:14] Soft Linden: And reopened.
[14:14] Soft Linden: The openal branch is in QA right now. Because it replaces a very fundamental subsystem, it needs extensive attention. I think there were some comments about occasional buffer underruns - something's not filling fast enough.
[14:15] Robin Cornelius: wind
[14:15] Soft Linden: This one's also on Tofu's plate. As it stands, I think it's his top priority, so it should see updates in early November
[14:15] Robin Cornelius: on slow frame rates or a stall the wind can run out
[14:15] Soft Linden: Right! Thanks, Robin. that was it
[14:15] Khyota Wulluf: i commented on that too
[14:15] Soft Linden: Did this not happen with fmod?
[14:15] Carjay McGinnis: hm, after all these optimizations?
[14:15] Khyota Wulluf: i didnt see it with fmod
[14:15] Robin Cornelius: fmod works in a totaly different way to implement the wind
[14:15] Aimee Trescothick: no, fmod uses callbacks rather than having to fill a buffer
[14:16] Robin Cornelius: fmod makes a call back for every dsp buffer to go out
[14:16] Robin Cornelius: the buffer is just modified with the wind superpositioned on
[14:16] Soft Linden: Gotcha - it's actually preemptive?
[14:16] Soft Linden: Er rather - its own thread?
[14:16] Robin Cornelius: fmod? yes
[14:16] Soft Linden: That makes sense. Yeah, it wouldn't be frame-locked then.
[14:17] Robin Cornelius: the openal wind is not locked but it can only refill buffers on frame updates
[14:17] Soft Linden: Ugh. It would be bad to lose threading anywhere where we currently have it. We're bad enough on that count in current code.
[14:17] Robin Cornelius: if you have too many buffers the wind changes lag the action
[14:17] Soft Linden: Right.
[14:18] Soft Linden: Hmm. That really should be threaded if it was with fmod.
[14:18] Robin Cornelius: it could improve performance of the wind a lot
[14:18] Soft Linden: So that could be a non-trivial fix. But still, better in the long run.
[14:19] Aimee Trescothick: resists obvious puns about breaking wind
[14:19] Soft Linden: Is there anything else we should add to the JIRA comments based on this?
[14:19] Soft Linden: You still lose points for mentioning that. :>
[14:19] Aimee Trescothick: ;)
[14:19] Carjay McGinnis: hehe
[14:19] Carjay McGinnis: that from a lady
[14:20] Soft Linden: That's it for the agenda.
[14:20] Robin Cornelius: a quick question i didn't get around to adding
[14:20] Soft Linden: Since we're light on Lindens, we can probably go a bit more free-form. Are there any other JIRAs people would want me to check statuses on?
[14:20] Soft Linden: Sure, go ahead Robin?
[14:20] Khyota Wulluf: blushes
[14:20] Robin Cornelius: crash logger, and custom viewer builds, do the crash logs do anything useful. Do you use stats gathering on the stack traces of known internal builds for analysis etc
[14:21] Soft Linden: For the internal builds, we do go over those stack traces and logs. There's a group that meets every Friday internally to look those over and find new crashers, and also to nudge priority on the most frequent crashes.
[14:22] Soft Linden: With custom viewers, the crash logs wouldn't be useful to us. AFAIK, those are turned off in exported source by default, unless that changed in the last few months.
[14:22] Opensource Obscure: a linux thing: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2085 Ctrl-Alt-F1 Hide/Show UI Does Not Work Correctly Under Linux - now it has both patch and testing on different environments
[14:23] Soft Linden: For the crash dumps, we've also talked a bit about how we could automate exports of the most frequent crashers. We've manually generated and exported that list a few times.
[14:23] Soft Linden: But it would be nice to have it be automatic.
[14:23] Soft Linden: Opensource - someone - I think possibly Khyota - just submitted a set of patches for that.
[14:23] Soft Linden: I'll dig that up...
[14:24] Khyota Wulluf: yes
[14:24] Opensource Obscure: exact. that's cool :) i love SL without UI.
[14:24] Soft Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-9966
[14:24] Khyota Wulluf: i actually figured out that bit of C++
[14:24] Soft Linden: As a workaround right now, you can probably use the right ALT key if you have one, btw. I think X only switches back to console with the left ALT.
[14:24] Opensource Obscure: ah got it, Khyota commented both issues
[14:24] Soft Linden: I'll link these two up...
[14:24] Soft Linden: Oh, they are
[14:25] Carjay McGinnis: the right Alt has a different meaning in some countries
[14:25] Soft Linden: So really 9966 is a dupe, but it carries a patch... so I'll resolve the other as a dupe of the one with a patch.
[14:25] Opensource Obscure: i'm recompiling the sources .. right LT key doesnt woek here
[14:25] Soft Linden: Right.
[14:25] Opensource Obscure: yes i am in italy with a weird .. key...set.
[14:25] Khyota Wulluf: left-right
[14:25] Soft Linden: Oh. The original has a patch too
[14:26] Khyota Wulluf: shrugs i was trying to be a little helpful
[14:26] Soft Linden: So there were concerns about which was the best modifier to use. Let's take this to sldev and decide once and for all which to use. I'll assign both to myself and I'll just import or create whatever sldev settles on
[14:26] Soft Linden: Sound like a plan?
[14:26] Robin Cornelius: yep
[14:26] Khyota Wulluf: good enough
[14:26] Carjay McGinnis: what's the status of the vertex overrun? http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-8194
[14:27] Robin Cornelius: ah yes a crippler on 64bit for sure and seen by many others
[14:27] Soft Linden: One sec, looking
[14:27] Carjay McGinnis: someone mentioned a while ago that a Linden was working on it
[14:27] Carjay McGinnis: but that that Linden was obviously terribly busy
[14:27] Squirrel Wood: WorkingOnIt Linden?
[14:27] Soft Linden: Right, that's Tofu again. 90% of the Linux work has come from him. Not overstating that - he's pretty much the Linux viewer.
[14:28] Robin Cornelius: There is an obvious band-aid that can be applied following other examples in render.cpp
[14:28] Robin Cornelius: its not only a linux issue
[14:28] Carjay McGinnis: hehe, no, you didn't state the name
[14:28] Soft Linden: Tofu actually took it from another Linden a few weeks back.
[14:28] Carjay McGinnis: ah, ok
[14:28] Soft Linden: Some Lindens put their names on the public issues, some don't.
[14:28] Soft Linden: I'll sync up external status
[14:28] Squirrel Wood: points at https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-10062 for automatic performance adjustment ^^
[14:30] Carjay McGinnis: well, I can see to provide a patch, it's not a simple fix though, would need to write some tests
[14:30] Soft Linden: Alright - added a tickler on Robin's issue as well. Tofu will see that shortly after he gets back. (Bet it takes him 3 days to dig out from under all his mail)
[14:30] Geneko Nemeth: Nyahaha.
[14:30] Squirrel Wood: Mmm. spam. :p
[14:30] Soft Linden: Sure. There's a good chance on that, Squirrel, that there are going to be some memory leaks and other fun breakage that repeatedly changing graphics settings would exercise.
[14:31] Soft Linden: It will be interesting to see what people come up with as ideas.
[14:31] Squirrel Wood: ^^
[14:31] Carjay McGinnis: and currently the shaders are reloaded for some settings I think
[14:31] Soft Linden: Any other JIRAs I can check up on?
[14:31] Squirrel Wood: At least it will expose these bugs ^^
[14:31] Aimee Trescothick: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-8008 ?
[14:31] Soft Linden: Ha - that's true too, Squirrel. But it would be nice to first deal with the ones that expose themselves without tweaking. :)
[14:31] Squirrel Wood: heee
[14:32] Soft Linden: Rx stamped this patch with an approval - that means a dev is free to take it, but nobody has yet on the internal
[14:32] Squirrel Wood: can tweak 'safe' stuff first :p
[14:32] Carjay McGinnis: nice idea
[14:32] Aimee Trescothick: just fixed a bug in that patch though it was pretty obvious if you tried to use it :)
[14:32] Aimee Trescothick: ok
[14:32] Soft Linden: thanks :)
[14:33] Soft Linden: I'll make sure it's marked for the featurette queue
[14:33] Aimee Trescothick: great
[14:33] Soft Linden: Coco Linden has been taking on a lot of these little improvement tasks lately. She's becoming queen of the featurette patches
[14:33] Soft Linden: So I wouldn't be surprised to see her name on it in the future
[14:33] Carjay McGinnis: a nice picture, Aimee *g*
[14:33] Aimee Trescothick: heh, yeah, she was presenting at UX last week
[14:33] Aimee Trescothick: lol thanks
[14:34] Soft Linden: She's the one who finally pulled in some of the snapshot improvements, or Gigs Taggart's land terraforming strength slider. Very cool stuff
[14:34] Khyota Wulluf: speaking of resolution and aspect ratio http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-9257
[14:34] Squirrel Wood: strength slider now needs an lsl equivalent
[14:34] Aimee Trescothick: it's nice to see some of the "little things" getting picked up now
[14:34] Soft Linden: Really didn't need to see tattoo Ruth
[14:34] Aimee Trescothick: rofl
[14:35] Aimee Trescothick: kinda thought the t-shirt was extra ironic
[14:35] Carjay McGinnis: hehe
[14:35] Soft Linden: Does that resize with other OSes? I thought that was only the size to use when full-screen
[14:35] Geneko Nemeth: ......
[14:35] Geneko Nemeth: It does, on Windows.
[14:35] Geneko Nemeth: Even when you maximize it (in which case it will automatically un-maximize)...
[14:35] Soft Linden: Hmm. Alright, I'll go ahead and import that. I don't know if they've got Linux people at the Monday/Wednesday bug triage
[14:35] Geneko Nemeth: Brr.
[14:36] Aimee Trescothick: yep, resizes the window on OS X too, just tried it
[14:36] Khyota Wulluf: yeah can anybody recall this form a while back?
[14:36] Geneko Nemeth: Whenever I resize SL under Linux , my framerate goes low though...
[14:36] Soft Linden: Geneko - with 1.21 still?
[14:36] Khyota Wulluf: pauses sometimes too
[14:37] Soft Linden: I think something like that may have been fixed with 1.21. It happened with me on the Mac in the past as well
[14:37] Geneko Nemeth: Not sure... haven't been spending time in-world much...
[14:37] Geneko Nemeth: Maybe I should try it now?
[14:37] Soft Linden: Hmm. Have a try - if it does still happen, make sure there's a JIRA please?
[14:38] Soft Linden: It might be a shallow problem for the graphics guys if they know about it.
[14:38] Geneko Nemeth: Or maybe it's just Compiz.
[14:38] Geneko Nemeth: Mmm, nope.
[14:38] Soft Linden: Ohhhhh... yeah. I had to turn that desktop compositing stuff off on two of my Linux machines.
[14:39] Soft Linden: Whichever is shipped with current Ubuntu. I don't know if that's Compiz or another.
[14:39] Opensource Obscure: compiz, yes.
[14:39] Soft Linden: Is Beryl the same thing as Compiz?
[14:39] Carjay McGinnis: hm, never tried, no compiz enabled
[14:39] Opensource Obscure: now they are, yes
[14:39] Carjay McGinnis: they fused
[14:39] Soft Linden: Gotcha. yeah. I had problems with an 8800GT and with an Intel 945 with SL and Beryl/Compiz.
[14:40] Carjay McGinnis: called Compiz Fusion now
[14:40] Soft Linden: Sorry. Intel 955. Using the 945 driver I guess.
[14:40] Opensource Obscure: are 9xxx Nvidia cards going to be officially supported soon or later?
[14:40] Soft Linden: I would expect so. nvidia does the nicest job of anyone with forward compatibility.
[14:41] Soft Linden: It's likely we don't have to do anything but update the file that recommends default settings for the card.
[14:41] Carjay McGinnis: oh, they aren't yet?
[14:41] Harvz Wilber: I have never had a problem with Nvidia
[14:41] Carjay McGinnis: for some there isn't even much of a difference
[14:41] Squirrel Wood: yum yum. cranberry flavoured chocolate
[14:41] Soft Linden: I'd bet they just work. I don't know if official work has been done - take this as a statement of my ignorance on the matter - not a statement that nothing has happened.
[14:42] Robin Cornelius: Probably just not using some new features but still work with the olds ones fine
[14:42] Dark Brown: Coyote head with sculpties: Geneko Nemeth plays with Khyota Wulluf's ears, having so much fun!
[14:42] Soft Linden: I just put the question to the viewer development IRC channel. I'll let you know if anything comes back.
[14:42] Khyota Wulluf: :D
[14:42] Khyota Wulluf: (sorry)
[14:43] Soft Linden: A dev says: "I believe so. With the understanding that there are a couple bugs that are being worked on. Not 100% on the "officially" part though ;)"
[14:43] Carjay McGinnis: hehe
[14:43] Soft Linden: Any other JIRAs I should check on here?
[14:44] Soft Linden: If it's not already flawless (compared to other nvidia chip support), I'd expect 9xxx fixes to happen in a hurry
[14:44] Squirrel Wood: Is there any pjira that says thank you for the hard work you put into SL ?
[14:44] Soft Linden: I have heard that the nvidia Mac Book Pro lockups are *finally* solved with the 9xxx-based MBPs.
[14:44] Squirrel Wood: If yes, I believe that to be a good one to look at ;)
[14:44] Soft Linden: No. JIRA is not for thanking Lindens. JIRA is for yelling.
[14:45] Aimee Trescothick: lol
[14:45] Opensource Obscure: well THANKS then.
[14:45] Soft Linden: :)
[14:45] Soft Linden: When you see those "is SL getting worse/better" polls at login, those are a good place to let us know how you feel.
[14:45] Carjay McGinnis: ah, oh, Soft, what about the linux64 additions to the install.xml?
[14:45] Khyota Wulluf: was just about to mention that
[14:45] Soft Linden: There's actually a big graph on a wall in the main Linden offices, where people can see real time movement on that.
[14:46] Harvz Wilber: cool
[14:46] Carjay McGinnis: does that mean there will be a linux64 viewer fom Linden soon?
[14:46] Squirrel Wood: I hardly ever get to see any pols on logging in.
[14:46] Soft Linden: No movement on the Linux 64-bit install.xml stuff just yet. Someone needs to own that.
[14:46] Squirrel Wood: haven't had one in like, 9 months
[14:46] Harvz Wilber: I think its getting better
[14:46] Aimee Trescothick: can't remember the last time I saw one
[14:46] Soft Linden: Those polls are pretty far apart. I'm on SL constantly, and only see it once a month or so.
[14:46] Carjay McGinnis: hm, why were they added then?
[14:47] Soft Linden: Personally I'm pretty happy. Crash rates are waaaaaay down for me with 1.20 and 1.21.
[14:47] DanteHusky Writer: Hello
[14:47] Harvz Wilber: they usually catch me off guard. and cant think of what to say at th emoment
[14:47] Khyota Wulluf: i havent had a crash with 1.21 on this machine yet
[14:47] Khyota Wulluf: ever since the RC's
[14:47] Robin Cornelius: yea 1.21 is looking much better for random crashes
[14:47] Soft Linden: Well, keep in mind that 100,000 people or more log in in a typical day. If you get a poll one login in 500 or so, that's still a lot of data.
[14:47] Harvz Wilber: me neither
[14:48] Soft Linden: I think if they came up a lot more often, people would be more likely to ignore them.
[14:48] Soft Linden: But I don't know the design decisions. That's just me speculating.
[14:48] Carjay McGinnis: well, I'm on trunk now, but even that seems stable now
[14:48] Soft Linden: Trunk has a handful of problems right now
[14:48] Squirrel Wood: hmm... only show them to people that haven't had any polls in a month ?
[14:48] Aimee Trescothick: I suppose the less frequently you crash the less likely you are to see one :D
[14:48] Soft Linden: I'm making a goal of going back to using trunk as my main viewer. That's what I'm on right now.
[14:48] Carjay McGinnis: oh?
[14:49] Aimee Trescothick: I suspect they thought of that though as would skew the stats
[14:49] DanteHusky Writer: is there a good 3rd party viewer?
[14:49] Carjay McGinnis: except for the pumpkin prims of course
[14:49] Soft Linden: I seem to always stumble into things that snuck past QA. So if I complain the day they're introduced - I figure 1.23 should be even more painless than 1.21. 1.22 would be too late to influence.
[14:49] Soft Linden: There are quite a few 3rd party viewers - I probably shouldn't take the position of endorsing any. If anyone else wants to speak up - go for it!
[14:50] Robin Cornelius: Meerkat
[14:50] Squirrel Wood: when will we get the 2.0.0 RC? ^^
[14:50] Opensource Obscure: : )
[14:50] DanteHusky Writer: i had one and i never crached but since the update i couldnt use it
[14:50] Harvz Wilber: Onrez is OK. things moved around a bit
[14:50] Squirrel Wood: I know it will be before xmas
[14:50] Soft Linden: Ha, fair question - nooooo idea when 2.0 will happen. Given that like - I think Windlight wasn't even a bump, I don't know what would be.
[14:51] Khyota Wulluf: hows the shadow stuff coming?
[14:51] Aimee Trescothick: surgical implant ui?
[14:51] Soft Linden: I'm not sure about the state of the shadow work. But it's merged into the maint-render-8 branch in svn.
[14:51] Aimee Trescothick: rendering into the optical nerve?
[14:51] DanteHusky Writer: since the update i been a bit more laggier then ever . not should if i need to update my pc or what
[14:51] Soft Linden: That means it's headed for a merge into trunk in the not too distant future.
[14:51] Opensource Obscure: what about the status of wiki pages with building/testing instructions as http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/CMake and http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Get_source_and_compile ?
[14:51] Harvz Wilber: i like th eway aimee thinks
[14:51] Aimee Trescothick: lol
[14:52] Soft Linden: We've got a build engineer who's going through and building all the open source platforms for the first time, so he's got a fresh eye, not making assumptions.
[14:52] Robin Cornelius: Dante: compare to some other builds/viewers like onrez meerkat and see that your lag/framerate is like. BTW what spec system?
[14:52] Aimee Trescothick: most people just start reaching for the straitjackes
[14:52] Aimee Trescothick: +t
[14:52] DanteHusky Writer: one sec
[14:52] Soft Linden: He's updating documentation as he goes. We should be able to take his updates and the community contributed docs and have something really solid soon.
[14:52] DanteHusky Writer: PU: Intel Pentium 4 (Unknown model) (3196 MHz)
Memory: 3062 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 3 (Build 2600)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce 7600 GS/PCI/SSE2
OpenGL Version: 2.1.2
[14:53] Opensource Obscure: (( cool ))
[14:53] Harvz Wilber: neural direct SL, a Coffee IV and a catheter
[14:53] DanteHusky Writer: will a dual core help?? cause this is a single core?? or is it my video card?
[14:53] Squirrel Wood: I believe a good part of the community would want a direct render to their pants :p
[14:54] Carjay McGinnis: o.O
[14:54] Squirrel Wood: instead of to the brain :p
[14:54] Harvz Wilber: heehee
[14:54] Robin Cornelius: well the video card is not blistering but its _ok_
[14:54] Aimee Trescothick: lol, yes with the new llDetectedTouch stuff ...
[14:54] Soft Linden: Multiple cores will help. Voice is completely threaded. So is texture decoding (which is SLOW).
[14:54] Harvz Wilber: but the brain is where its all actually happenin
[14:54] Khyota Wulluf: oo
[14:54] Opensource Obscure: i think a dual core will greatly help if you run other apps while the viewer is running ?
[14:54] Carjay McGinnis: Aimee seems to have interesting ideas
[14:54] Harvz Wilber: I upgraded to dual core and its much much smoother
[14:54] DanteHusky Writer: just my avg and sl
[14:54] Geneko Nemeth: Second Life should run multiple threads.
[14:55] Soft Linden: Wow. Our minimum specs are a Pentium III at 800mhz? Thhhhaaaaaaaat seems a bit unrealistic. http://secondlife.com/support/sysreqs.php
[14:55] Aimee Trescothick: LL is missing a market by not extending that to the avatar mesh :P
[14:55] Carjay McGinnis: it does
[14:55] Geneko Nemeth: I me should be running.
[14:55] Soft Linden: Yes. Adding threading properly is very non-trivial though.
[14:55] Khyota Wulluf: i gave openjpegV2 a try today, it wasnt compatible but im hoping it will have some improvements to bring it closer to kdu with speed
[14:55] Opensource Obscure: i often forget to enable Threads options in Advanced menu
[14:55] Carjay McGinnis: but it stops all threads before entering the render part
[14:56] Carjay McGinnis: that's what the option disables
[14:56] Soft Linden: We're on an older KDU and upgrading. KDU has actually gotten nearly 50% faster than what's in use now, according to their marketing stuff. I don't know how that translates to SL use.
[14:56] Carjay McGinnis: going to 6.0?
[14:56] Soft Linden: So unfortuantely, kdu may not go away just yet.
[14:56] DanteHusky Writer: well i was told ram last year so i got a new board 3 sticks of kingston ddr2 1 gig that 7600 video card which i believe is 256mb .. i dont know lol this is what i was told i should buy
[14:56] Soft Linden: I don't know the version number off hand. But whatever is newest is what we'd be using I expect.
[14:56] Khyota Wulluf: thinks somone needs to give openjpeg some funing :p
[14:56] Carjay McGinnis: newer KDU also allows threading to be taken care of by the lib
[14:57] Robin Cornelius: Dante: what you have should be acceptable, its better than mine. Lag might be network issues
[14:57] Geneko Nemeth: What is a KDU?
[14:57] Soft Linden: Really, the viewer should just be updated to decode multiple images in parallel. It shouldn't matter as much which library is being used.
[14:57] Carjay McGinnis: libkakadu, the jpeg2000 codec
[14:57] Squirrel Wood: ya.
[14:57] Khyota Wulluf: the proprietary one
[14:57] Soft Linden: Right.
[14:57] Squirrel Wood: multiple decode threads
[14:58] Opensource Obscure: is First Look Isle a good place to test viewer performances? are there any other places?
[14:58] Geneko Nemeth: Would decoding multiple images give any improvement?
[14:58] Soft Linden: Well, we're about out of time.
[14:58] Squirrel Wood: ^^
[14:58] Aimee Trescothick: thanks soft :)
[14:58] DanteHusky Writer: according to sl im running at 9.1 fps and this is on a good day atm
[14:58] Soft Linden: Yes, decoding multiple images should help a lot
[14:58] Squirrel Wood: Was a good discussion
[14:58] DanteHusky Writer: most times in 5 or lower
[14:58] Carjay McGinnis: thanks Soft :)
[14:58] Carjay McGinnis: good luck on the pumpkin front
[14:58] Squirrel Wood: and if cou call that performance stumbling...
[14:58] Robin Cornelius: I'm at 8.3 now
[14:58] Aimee Trescothick: Guess everyone else is busy battling pumpkins
[14:58] Squirrel Wood: you..
[14:58] Soft Linden: If you look at CPU use on a multi-CPU machine, on a 2 or 4 core machine, usually just one CPU is busy, and another is only like 15% for me
[14:58] Carjay McGinnis: yes, Aimee, guess that's why no Lindens are here
[14:59] Khyota Wulluf: its werewolves for me
[14:59] Carjay McGinnis: except for Soft
[14:59] Soft Linden: Ideally, so long as there are textures to decode, they should all be pegged at 100%
[14:59] Squirrel Wood: benjamin time ^^
[14:59] DanteHusky Writer: never knew a furry linden btw lol no offence
[14:59] Robin Cornelius: my CPU is never 100%
[14:59] Soft Linden: Ha - it's all good. We exist!
[14:59] Squirrel Wood: ^^
[14:59] Khyota Wulluf: !
[14:59] Soft Linden: zooms
[14:59] Khyota Wulluf: soft
[14:59] Robin Cornelius: think the graphics card is the limiting factor
[14:59] DanteHusky Writer: lol
[14:59] Geneko Nemeth: Hmm... there's http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-6700 which seems invalid, okay for me to close it?
[14:59] Aimee Trescothick: heh it's as in "Soft and furry" :D
[14:59] Aimee Trescothick: bye :)
[14:59] Khyota Wulluf: i saw mesh support surveys in the jira
[14:59] DanteHusky Writer: i had another question but i been looking to find it on the support with no luck
[15:00] Soft Linden: I really don't know what the best configuration change for DanteHusky is. I sure suspect multiple cores would help though.
[15:00] DanteHusky Writer: but it can wait
[15:00] Soft Linden: Just for vivox and what decoding parallelization there is.
[15:00] Robin Cornelius: Dante, you could lower graphics settings slightly, draw distance is a killer
[15:00] Soft Linden: Dante - if it's a deep tech question, the sldev mailing list is a really great place for it
[15:00] Soft Linden: https://lists.secondlife.com
[15:00] DanteHusky Writer: no its nto a tech question
[15:00] DanteHusky Writer: not*
[15:01] Khyota Wulluf: i think all of us furs would want the ability to switch out the avatar mesh :p
[15:01] Soft Linden: I know arbitrary meshes is often talked about. I have nooooo idea what the gating factor is there.
[15:02] Khyota Wulluf: well at least it is* thoguht about
[15:02] Soft Linden: But yeah - it would open up a ton of possibilities.
[15:02] Opensource Obscure: ciao all
[15:02] Robin Cornelius: crap, duckwalk and all my good AO's are non-trans with Michelle *sigh*
[15:02] Soft Linden: But separate animations, a requirement for some kind of progressive mesh format so you see something approximating the shap up front, probably a bit of design that has to happen
[15:02] Carjay McGinnis: hehe
[15:02] DanteHusky Writer: o well i should get dressed for work for my brother's place
[15:02] Carjay McGinnis: you want to switch permanently?
[15:03] Robin Cornelius: no keeping both
[15:03] Carjay McGinnis: oh, ok
[15:03] Khyota Wulluf: well thanks Soft
[15:03] Soft Linden: thumbsup!

Open Source Meeting/2008-10-23

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