Open Source Meeting/2010-05-20

Agenda Thursday, 20 May 2010

1. Weekly Snowglobe update - Merov Linden
2. The 1.23.5 source code download links are broken again. Can the code be move to a "real" server?
3. Left over topics from Tuesday, May 18
   1. Can there be a way for folks to donate $L to non LL paid developers that work on snowglobe?
   2. llrobla V2.0/replacment update
   3. Progress on SL7B snowglobe display?
4. Build instructions overhaul
   • People have now had some time to add missing stuff to Category:Compiling viewer, so we can see what's already documented.
   • How to proceed?
5. What is the difference between "channel" (VIEWER_CHANNEL) and "login_channel" (VIEWER_LOGIN_CHANNEL)? Snowglobe defaults to "CommunityDeveloper".
   1. What channel name should be used?
   2. Does the TPV covers this?
   3. Can the answers be put on the wiki?

Jira Issues

1. Looks like r3349 will be reverted. Do these still need discussion (e.g. for viewer-external)?:
   1. SNOW-649 Changeset 3349 added unit test to llplugin but forgot LL_TESTS, resulting in a build failure in lltut.cpp
   2. SNOW-650 Tries to build pulseaudio when pulseaudio not found.
   3. SNOW-651 Standalone build failure r3349, cmake error on SLPlugin
   4. SNOW-654 Bulding of integration_tests when not needed
   5. SNOW-658 Notifier Issue Since [sldev-commits] r3349
2. Unscheduled SNOW issues triage: would be good to go with the community through those and decide for some what we should take immediately (2.0 or 1.4) or later.

Transcript

[13:58]	Ardy Lay:	Hi Merov
[13:58]	Bronson Blackadder:	hi meowrov :)
[13:58]	Jonathan Yap:	In rl I am sitting on a cane chair, but still doing ok :)
[13:58]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	`hey merov
[13:58]	Merov Linden:	hu guys
[13:58]	Jonathan Yap:	Hi Merov
[13:58]	Merov Linden:	I meant: *hi*
[13:58]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	so when is oz getting here
[13:58]	Morgaine Dinova:	Imprudence does have Emerald's body physics, yeah. I was quite shocked when I saw it for the first time a couple of months ago. Hadn't seen it on Emerald for some reason.
[13:59]	Mojito Sorbet:	"body physics"?
[13:59]	Merov Linden:	tada!
[13:59]	Morgaine Dinova:	Oh yeah, we'd like to see Oz :-)
[13:59]	Boroondas Gupte	waves
[13:59]	Morgaine Dinova:	Boob physics, or whatever they call it
[13:59]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Yes...fresh meat shows up. :-)
[13:59]	Ardy Lay:	Hello Oz!
[13:59]	Jonathan Yap:	Hi oz
[13:59]	Oz Linden:	Hi everyone
[13:59]	Jonathan Yap:	Oz, has anyone asked you for a bear yet? :)
[13:59]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Hi Oz.
[13:59]	Merov Linden:	and here is : the great Oz!
[13:59]	Merov Linden:	:)
[13:59]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hi Oz. Welcome to Merov's madhouse :P
[13:59]	Mojito Sorbet:	The Great and Powerful
[13:59]	Merov Linden:	I guess that answers some questions readily :)
[14:00]	Techwolf Lupindo	checks out the profile.
[14:00]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Oh dear...he on AW Groupies allready.
[14:00]	Mojito Sorbet:	No profile. Must be a noob
[14:00]	Oz Linden:	well, I don't think I rate the Powerful yet
[14:00]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	hey oz
[14:00]	Merov Linden:	We have an agenda of course
[14:00]	Merov Linden:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Meeting/Agenda
[14:01]	Morgaine Dinova:	Yep, Oz is on Groupies too. Commiserations, Oz ^_^
[14:01]	Merov Linden:	But may be Oz wants to intro himself? Coupe of wrods for the crowd Oz?
[14:01]	Merov Linden	can't type today
[14:01]	Oz Linden:	I'm looking forward to getting to know all of you much better
[14:01]	Morgaine Dinova:	wrods are OK among friends.
[14:02]	Oz Linden:	and making some magic happen
[14:02]	Merov Linden:	Cool!
[14:02]	Merov Linden:	Thanks Oz
[14:02]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	or mabey even getting it 'rocking' :p
[14:02]	Merov Linden:	Back to the agenda
[14:02]	Boroondas Gupte:	You know magic? That'll be useful!
[14:02]	Merov Linden:	Topic 1. Merov's update
[14:03]	Merov Linden:	Well, I think it's pretty clear what I've been up to this past few days:
[14:03]	Jonathan Yap:	Oz, there is also an IRC channel that receives the groupies messages via a bridge, in case you don't want to have a viewer running you can still monitor the chatter
[14:03]	WolfPup Lowenhar	< old oz man fan
[14:03]	Merov Linden:	porting passed 1.x patches to 2.0
[14:03]	Morgaine Dinova:	Oz: and we're looking forward to your support of all things Open Source. We really had a soft spot for Rob, you have a big role to fill. :-)
[14:03]	Merov Linden:	I'm trying to get that atrix all blue :)
[14:04]	WolfPup Lowenhar	whispers to morgain you might want to retract those claws :p
[14:04]	Merov Linden:	I know some of you guys are working on the "Major features port
[14:04]	Merov Linden:	How is this going for you guys?
[14:04]	Morgaine Dinova:	No claws here. Blue kitties use force field effectors.
[14:04]	Merov Linden	means Robin and Thickbrick here
[14:04]	Merov Linden	hasn't seen Pixel in a while
[14:05]	Thickbrick Sleaford	takes a sit quietly
[14:05]	Robin Cornelius:	I'm actualy up and running again, linux builds work again and my laptop is again functional so i can start to make progress
[14:05]	Merov Linden:	\o/
[14:06]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	I haven't started on porting the google translation yet.
[14:06]	Merov Linden:	I'll be updating the matrix as I go this week
[14:06]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	hey open and eddi
[14:06]	Eddi Decosta:	Hey ㋡
[14:06]	Opensource Obscure:	hey all
[14:06]	Merov Linden:	please edit it so we don't do double work
[14:06]	Merov Linden	grabs a link for ths matrix
[14:06]	Drew Dwi:	hey eddi :)
[14:06]	Merov Linden:	https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AgvC7hm5YZqcdHVXb05iTE0wTFc0bWptTW4tOTZuS3c&hl=en
[14:07]	Eddi Decosta:	hi Drew , how are you? ㋡
[14:07]	Aimee Linden:	I may need to pull in JSONCPP for some other stuff I'm going to be doing, so that may ease the path for the translation stuff
[14:07]	Merov Linden:	good to now Aimee
[14:07]	Merov Linden:	Thickbrick did volunteer for that one
[14:08]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	i need to find out how to turn of the keyboard navigation off
[14:08]	Merov Linden:	SNOW-667
[14:08]	JIRA-helper:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-667 [#SNOW-667] Port of SNOW-93 to SG 2.0 : Automatic language translation of chat messages
[14:08]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	I think it should be mostly straight forward
[14:08]	Merov Linden:	add comment in there Aimee when you do the JSONCPP stuff though I'm sure Thickbrick will notice the commits
[14:09]	Aimee Linden:	certainly will
[14:09]	Merov Linden:	BTW, I did the rollback to 2.0.1 as you certainly notice
[14:09]	Merov Linden:	*noticed*
[14:09]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Yea. :-)
[14:09]	Robin Cornelius:	+1 saved me a world of pain for the moment
[14:09]	Robin Cornelius:	i was going blind diffing assembler
[14:09]	Merov Linden:	me too
[14:10]	Morgaine Dinova:	Techwolf, I just sync'd your overlay and am now rebuilding snowglobe1-svn
[14:10]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Robin, I added some info to that jira.
[14:10]	Merov Linden:	diffing assembler: isn't that a wizard skill?
[14:10]	Merov Linden:	:)
[14:10]	Robin Cornelius:	Tech, it was your dumps i was comparing
[14:10]	Techwolf Lupindo:	hehe
[14:10]	Ardy Lay:	That a compiler specific problem? 2.0.2 was building fine on Windows.
[14:10]	Robin Cornelius:	gcc 4.4
[14:10]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	Robin, that started in 2.0.2?
[14:10]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	im supprised that no one has starting to use the meta snow-660 and its sub tasks
[14:10]	JIRA-helper:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-660 [#SNOW-660] Compileing Source Code Issues
[14:10]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Fell free to add those pastebins to the jira directory. It was easer for me to pastebin it first.
[14:11]	Robin Cornelius:	Thickbrick, yes appeared to
[14:11]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	I didn't see it, but I was using a debug build
[14:11]	Robin Cornelius:	its some static initalisation being optimised away so almost any changes could mask it
[14:11]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	(gcc 4.4.3)
[14:11]	Techwolf Lupindo:	WolfPup, there is a bunch of mine that can been added, but that was for merge that was rolled back.
[14:11]	Merov Linden:	k, I think the work on the 2.0 trunk is clear now and moving
[14:11]	Merov Linden:	good
[14:12]	Merov Linden:	next item on the agenda: 2
[14:12]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	SNOW-659
[14:12]	JIRA-helper:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-659 [#SNOW-659] Standalone SG2 fails to start, sigsegv in LLFastTimer
[14:12]	Robin Cornelius:	thats the beasty
[14:12]	Merov Linden:	1.23.5 download bundles
[14:12]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	i know i closed snow-658 after tuesday's rollback
[14:12]	JIRA-helper:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-658 [#SNOW-658] Notifier Issue Since [sldev-commits] r3349
[14:12]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Need to change that title to refect it was not 2.0.1
[14:12]	Merov Linden:	ok: it's not "broken again", I'd say it's "still broken"
[14:13]	Merov Linden:	i.e. I haven't rebuilt that yet
[14:13]	Techwolf Lupindo:	er...lag...re:snow-659
[14:13]	Merov Linden:	ok, ok, I will do it ASAP
[14:13]	Merov Linden:	moving to a "real" server won't solve the problem of building this in the first place...
[14:13]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	shouldn't 1.23.5 use the same artwork and libs packages as SG1.3?
[14:14]	Merov Linden:	I think you're right Thickbrick
[14:14]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	it should be linked to snow-663 as well since it is a linux issue
[14:14]	JIRA-helper:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-663 [#SNOW-663] Issues Building From Code in Linux OS
[14:14]	Merov Linden:	and I remember saying something to that effect on the list
[14:14]	Merov Linden:	still, I would prefer to build cleanly from the branch as it should be
[14:14]	Merov Linden:	so to avoid any possible side effects
[14:14]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Need to check the md5 and 1.23.5 and 1.23.4 artwork/libs and see if they are the same.
[14:15]	Merov Linden:	OK, anyway, that #2 item is squarely on my lap
[14:15]	Jonathan Yap:	I was able to find copies of the 1.22 artwork and libs to build a TPV viewer the other day, so they are still around somewhere
[14:15]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Merov, right now, two ebuilds of mine are broken due to those missing files. Secondlife 1.23.5 and coolviewer due to directory based off of 1.23.5. So i'me no the only affected by it.
[14:16]	Jonathan Yap:	techwolf, is that Boy Lane's Cool Viewer?
[14:16]	Merov Linden:	OK, understood Techwolf
[14:16]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Jonathan, seperate enties.
[14:16]	Merov Linden:	That download page needs an update anyway, for sure
[14:17]	Merov Linden:	next item: 3.1: paying devs to work on Snowglobe
[14:17]	Merov Linden:	interesting subject...
[14:17]	Merov Linden:	as you know, we (LL) have been in the past using Rent-a-coder to get some features done
[14:18]	Merov Linden:	e.g. the SG translator
[14:18]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	careful of the cans or worms sitting under the table...
[14:18]	WolfPup Lowenhar	< is only getting back into codeing but is only working on SG V2
[14:18]	Merov Linden:	that was an experiment that we certainly should resume and formalze
[14:19]	Merov Linden:	but there's a woder question here, it's sponsoring bug fixes by the community, not necessarily LL
[14:19]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Merov mis typeed it. "Can there be a way for folks to donate $L to non LL paid developers that work on snowglobe?" My thoughs was about donations and that why I threw it up there last week.
[14:19]	Merov Linden:	that's how I understand "donate $L"
[14:19]	Oz Linden:	I'm interested in hearing from anyone who has an opinion about whether that or some other structure for compensating/motivating contributions is the right one
[14:19]	Techwolf Lupindo:	heh,
[14:19]	Merov Linden:	some other FLOSS project have "bounties"
[14:20]	Merov Linden:	we resisted that as it requires some way of managing it
[14:20]	Merov Linden:	but, heck, we have $L so that "should" make things easier
[14:20]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	mabey 'tip' jars located here some where for those that are willing to spend time working on the code
[14:20]	Oz Linden:	any time there's money involved, one must manage it
[14:20]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	I think this question is less about something like rent-a-coder and more about tip-jar style donations (like a lot of OS projects have)
[14:21]	Techwolf Lupindo:	not tip jars, that clubs. Donation objects may be ok...
[14:21]	Jonathan Yap:	How would you split it up? Different people put in different amounts of work
[14:21]	Vivienne Graves:	Well, I'd think that the motivation for contributions is a desire to improve the code, on the part of opensource contributors, they have their own reasons for doing so but financial reward isn't one of them (and if the present quality of contributions to the opensource project is such that the added motivation doesn't seem required I'd say that there's no reason for it, it's an extraneous issue)
[14:22]	Oz Linden:	My query is by no means limited to monetary motivation
[14:22]	Celierra Darling:	I could imagine some sort of bounty that just goes into a big reward pool to be split by Hippo Award at the end of the year, or something. Yeah, sefish financial reward isn't a huge motivator, but maybe if it's towards the project as a whole...
[14:22]	Celierra Darling:	* selfish
[14:22]	Merov Linden:	The reward might not be the main motivation but it's also a tool to judge how much folks want something, i.e. if you donate to have something fixed, it has real value to you
[14:23]	Techwolf Lupindo:	One difference between this project and other floss project is this is a commercial open source project.
[14:23]	Vivienne Graves:	other motivation I think would work better, recognition of efforts contributed, especially of any opensource contributions that are incorporated into the main SL viewer? sure
[14:23]	Morgaine Dinova:	I doubt if you can generalize what devs want out of an open source project. But given the manpower shortage at LL, I think it's worth the company experimenting with bounties.
[14:24]	Merov Linden:	We have few incentitives beyond getting the contributor name on the credits and in the contribution.txt file
[14:24]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	I have no idea how to do this, but I would like to point out that the rent-a-coder approach can also backfire, like it did with the bounty on openJPEG optimizations.
[14:24]	Morgaine Dinova:	What happened there, Thick?
[14:24]	Oz Linden:	Were the Hippo awards a good thing, and should I restart them?
[14:24]	Drew Dwi	+1's that idea
[14:25]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I'me not failmlair wiht the hippo awards, just know about them. Was they good in the past?
[14:25]	Robin Cornelius:	I think the rent-a-coder projects were not necessarly that well managed by those who are close to us here now and the remote ness of who was in charge was a negitive factor in some of the set up there
[14:25]	Merov Linden	nulls the idea of having a $L tipjar attached to IRA records
[14:25]	Merov Linden:	*mulls*
[14:25]	Robin Cornelius:	hmm those words i wrote read badly
[14:26]	Robin Cornelius:	i mean the people involved in snowglobe/opensource were not managing the rent-a-coder
[14:26]	Merov Linden:	true Robin, that was an issue I think
[14:26]	Techwolf Lupindo:	For IRS issues, going the rent-a-coder route could allive a lot of those IRS issues.
[14:26]	Boroondas Gupte:	Also, it was kinda strange to offer that job at rent-a-coder before even asking the list if someone would want to do it.
[14:27]	Merov Linden:	the lesson is "do things very openly through the opensource-dev channel"
[14:27]	Vivienne Graves:	I can see bounties addressed to specific JIRA issues/feature requests with community contribution to the total, perhaps?
[14:27]	Oz Linden:	what about the reverse model...
[14:27]	Boroondas Gupte:	what's "IRS"?
[14:27]	Robin Cornelius:	Tax office
[14:27]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Internail Revnues Service the USA
[14:27]	Merov Linden:	interesting Vivienne
[14:28]	Oz Linden:	developer wants to do X, so creates a description and waits for the amount offered to be high enough?
[14:28]	Boroondas Gupte:	That sound like what http://dev.sendlove.us/worklist/worklist.php does
[14:28]	Merov Linden:	indeed Boroondas
[14:28]	Vivienne Graves:	possibly, or community wants X and offers a bounty with L$ contributed by people who vote for the issue
[14:28]	Celierra Darling:	Personally, I think the Hippo Awards would have been good as a secondary reward, but it doesn't make up for rewards like getting those things into the official SL viewer (quickly)
[14:29]	Robin Cornelius:	Gigs tried something like that a few years ago with his jira tip jars he had here on hippotropolis, donate on the jira you want to be fixed, not sure it worked that well
[14:29]	Boroondas Gupte:	+Celi
[14:29]	Techwolf Lupindo:	One problem that will arise is what about the one that fix bugs as they come along? Most of my contrubition are building bug fixes that crop up with merges. Those can't be bidded out.
[14:29]	Merov Linden:	wow! I didn't even know that story Robin
[14:30]	Aimee Linden	contemplates putting out her own tip jar marked "Fix lag"
[14:30]	Celierra Darling:	(That's how I remember that too, though it was only 5ish tip jars and a the "full thermometer" level was gigantic...)
[14:30]	Oz Linden:	Glad to hear you say that... getting more contributions in faster is my main goal
[14:30]	Merov Linden	routs for Oz!
[14:30]	Vivienne Graves:	well, it obviously wouldn't be for everything, just specific feature requests and buxfixes (say, for instance...I can see a bounty offered on backporting shared media to the 1.x codebase)
[14:30]	Merov Linden:	k, I think we do have some suggestions and thoughts here which is good
[14:31]	Oz Linden:	More generally, getting more contributions that are all used in more viewers.... multiple viewers are good things, but so is sharing
[14:31]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Oh, what about the ones that dig into a bug with many hours to figurte out just what is wrong in the first place? Some of jira have hous of troubeshooting on them.
[14:31]	Morgaine Dinova:	Techwolf makes an important point. None of these plans help the devs who constantly fix small non-sexy things.
[14:32]	Boroondas Gupte:	yeah
[14:32]	Oz Linden:	or just hours of trying to reproduce them... that can be more valuable than code
[14:32]	Morgaine Dinova:	True
[14:32]	Merov Linden:	I'm not sure we can create a truly fair market place by fiat
[14:33]	Vivienne Graves:	some people are working on bugfixes for fun, to learn or hone their skills in C++, for motivations that have little to do with any reward beyond the satisfaction of actually accomplishing something, so...assuming that financial motivation is even necessary for everyone and everything is false I think
[14:33]	Oz Linden:	Anyone who has thoughts on any of this - please send me email (and/or post to the list)
[14:33]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	or those that decide to become devs because of some small feature that only works behind the scences
[14:33]	Celierra Darling:	That's what I meant by sending (some? of the) tips into a pool and redistributing that bit via awards
[14:33]	Merov Linden:	I mean: the work market place out there in RL is not fair too... (anyone checked the paycheck of a teacher?)
[14:33]	Morgaine Dinova:	Yeah. I don't think there's any full solution, Just do what you can, in various areas.
[14:33]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Merov, try a car anology. :-)
[14:34]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	try the paycheck of a computer thecnition for a retail electronics store :'(
[14:34]	Morgaine Dinova:	I guess you could hire *everyone*. That's a complete solution ^_^
[14:34]	Techwolf Lupindo:	(old slashdot joke)
[14:34]	Oz Linden:	I'd like to find ways (both monetary and non) to reward and recognize all kinds of contributions, and to make the community a part of the feedback system that directs those rewards
[14:35]	Morgaine Dinova:	You don't pick easy tasks, Oz :-)
[14:35]	Eddi Decosta:	i need to reconnect, give just few min ㋡
[14:35]	Oz Linden:	what fun would that be?
[14:35]	Morgaine Dinova	chuckles
[14:35]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	true oz
[14:35]	Techwolf Lupindo:	WolfPup. SO TRUE!!. That why I drove a truck for many year. I got paid a hell a lot more just driving a truck then I ever got paid for any compuyter work. Currenlty un-employyed and been looking for months for a job.
[14:35]	Merov Linden:	I think you're right Oz
[14:35]	Merov Linden:	visibility to contributors is also a good incentive, not easy to shape though
[14:36]	WolfPup Lowenhar	< is a RL Computer Technition working for one of those retail electronics stores
[14:36]	Merov Linden:	k, I thin we've *plenty* for Oz to think about :)
[14:36]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Being able to point out your name in the help about box does give one some satafaction.
[14:36]	Merov Linden:	may be we should move down the agenda
[14:37]	Jacek Antonelli	waves quickly to Oz. Welcome. :)
[14:37]	Merov Linden:	3.2: robla's replacement: he's sitting right next to me! :)
[14:37]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	\o/
[14:37]	Techwolf Lupindo:	WolfPup, where and are they hiring? I'be getting to the point of whoring myslelf out now. :-/
[14:37]	Morgaine Dinova	waves to Jacek :-)
[14:37]	Merov Linden:	3.3 SL7B:
[14:37]	Robin Cornelius:	i placed the application
[14:38]	Merov Linden:	that's a good one
[14:38]	Merov Linden:	excellent!
[14:38]	Merov Linden:	thanks Robin
[14:38]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	no they actualy cut my hours have me working < 36hrs a wk
[14:38]	Merov Linden:	How can we (collectively) help?
[14:38]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Merov, can I chew on him to break him in? ;-)
[14:39]	Merov Linden	hints Oz to turn God Power on... quick!...
[14:39]	Morgaine Dinova:	Looks well broken in already. Look at that 'tache :P
[14:39]	Aimee Linden	suspects Tech is auditioning for the role of Toto
[14:39]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	heh
[14:40]	Techwolf Lupindo:	o_O
[14:40]	Merov Linden:	k, Robin, what about helping for SL7B
[14:40]	Merov Linden:	?
[14:40]	Techwolf Lupindo:	:-)
[14:40]	Robin Cornelius:	We need some ideas of what to actually exhibit
[14:41]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	a big honking snowglobe prim?
[14:41]	Merov Linden:	screen shots of code?
[14:41]	Jacek Antonelli:	hehe
[14:41]	Robin Cornelius:	i prefer Thickbricks line of thinking ;-)
[14:41]	Morgaine Dinova:	Not the crash log, please. Conveys the wrong message
[14:41]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	I think a feature list and a "how can I join" thing
[14:41]	Celierra Darling:	The Mega MAtrix of Stuff in Snowglobe
[14:41]	Jacek Antonelli:	Some of the code would drive them to madness, Lovecraft style.
[14:41]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hehe
[14:41]	Robin Cornelius:	we need the Uncle Phillip needs you poster
[14:42]	Merov Linden:	There was a big Snowglobe lying around on this island I recall
[14:42]	Robin Cornelius:	Merov, by snowglobe was not very good
[14:42]	Eddi Decosta:	^back, sorry ㋡
[14:42]	Robin Cornelius:	*my
[14:42]	Merov Linden:	the new logo is also better
[14:42]	Merov Linden:	someone game to create a 3D version of it?
[14:42]	Boroondas Gupte:	but harder to rebuild in 3D
[14:43]	Merov Linden:	that's a challenge!
[14:43]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	Jacek, I thought you'd see Lovecraftian code as a good thing
[14:43]	Robin Cornelius:	i'm no builder, i can code and script but not sculpt and build
[14:43]	Merov Linden:	same here
[14:43]	Morgaine Dinova:	Actually, what WOULD go down well is a *visionary* statement about the role of Open Source in SL. The community has been a bit embattled in recent times, and spirits are not as high as they were.
[14:43]	Merov Linden:	if it ain't C++, I ain't touch it...
[14:43]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	couldnb
[14:44]	Boroondas Gupte:	btw ... is snowglobe 2 still using the SL logo, or should I re-download artwork?
[14:44]	Merov Linden:	I'm sure Oz's position on this would be nice
[14:44]	Oz Linden:	I'll see what I can do to draft that, Morgain
[14:44]	Merov Linden:	same logo Boroondas
[14:44]	Morgaine Dinova:	\o/
[14:44]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	could you not import th snoglobe icon inworld a nd use it as a texture for particle 'snow' fallong around the display?
[14:44]	Ardy Lay:	Aww, Merov, I was gonna bug you about some python script issues with building package in Snowglobe 1.4.0
[14:44]	Celierra Darling:	(Re-download artwork, I'm seeing the snowglobe logo and not the SL one)
[14:45]	Vivienne Graves:	Snowglobe 1.x and 2.x are using a different logo as far as I know? A snowflake on a blue sphere
[14:45]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	i have that one as well and im building v2 of snowglobe
[14:45]	Merov Linden:	Vivienne: 1.3 and 2.0 use the same logo
[14:45]	Morgaine Dinova:	Now that was one clear success from renta-designer --- what a lovely SG logo we have.
[14:46]	Merov Linden:	SG 1.1 I recall used the robla's snowglobe...
[14:46]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Morgaine, witch one?
[14:46]	Boroondas Gupte:	yeah
[14:47]	Merov Linden:	one thing though: now that's it's official we'll be on SL7B, may be we should email opensource-dev
[14:47]	Morgaine Dinova:	Tech: the one top-right here -- http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Snowglobe
[14:47]	Merov Linden:	so we get people coming and may be proposing ideas
[14:47]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	i have a question why is there no pictures during log in if your useing your own build of sg?
[14:48]	Boroondas Gupte:	because a different page is displayed
[14:48]	Robin Cornelius:	Merov, its only offical when we get a confirmation back about SL7B unless you have insider info
[14:48]	Merov Linden:	Wolfpup : the picture served depends on the viewer-channel and we haven't one for Community Developer
[14:48]	Merov Linden:	Robin: understood
[14:48]	Ardy Lay:	Can we get one?
[14:48]	Boroondas Gupte:	+Ardy
[14:49]	Morgaine Dinova:	Odd. Any special reason why it's channel dependent? Should be grid-dependent only, I think
[14:49]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	would there be a way to redirect it to the main viewers ?
[14:49]	Merov Linden:	Ardy: we should, yes... I don't know who to ask and get that done but I can work on that
[14:49]	Vivienne Graves:	although you can set the channel to 'Snowglobe Release' in indra/llcommon/llversionviewer.h
[14:49]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	actualy when i log aditi with this build i get a pic just not on aginin
[14:49]	Jonathan Yap:	Might be nice to have a line saying where the image was taken, too
[14:50]	Techwolf Lupindo:	WolfPup, there is a question that deals with that splash page on login, the channel name. Its later on in the agenda.
[14:50]	Merov Linden:	Morgaine: I think the idea was that you could "brand" your splash screen that way
[14:50]	Morgaine Dinova:	Ah
[14:50]	Morgaine Dinova:	Oh dear, lol, shouldn't conflate channel with branding :P
[14:51]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	i liked seeing the pick for inworld and miss them
[14:51]	Jacek Antonelli:	There used to be a different login screen for the beta grid, it looked like a wireframe landscape
[14:51]	Merov Linden:	k, we should move down the agenda
[14:51]	Aimee Linden:	the idea of adding a slurl to the login screen picture location was discussed before I think, the problem was you'd end up DoSing thata location every time it came up
[14:51]	Merov Linden:	on SL7B: wait till we receive confirmation our booth is accepted, send ideas to Robin and Oz in the meantime
[14:51]	Merov Linden:	4.: build instruction
[14:52]	Morgaine Dinova:	Merov: This idea is keyed off the supplied channel sring -- http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-19009
[14:52]	JIRA-helper:	[#VWR-19009] Add viewer channel identification to visible tags
[14:52]	Morgaine Dinova:	string*
[14:53]	Morgaine Dinova:	I guess it would need a separate data field, if your idea of branding relies on the channel
[14:53]	WolfPup Lowenhar	< has been helping with a wiki page that is specific to viewer 2
[14:53]	Merov Linden:	thanks Morgaine, I didn't know that JIRA
[14:53]	Merov Linden:	on build, I'd like to have a nice, simple first page for building
[14:54]	Merov Linden:	it's kinda hard to have that scatered on numerous pages with various state of completeness
[14:55]	Merov Linden:	so what I'm saying is that we should rewrite the whole main wiki build page from scratch
[14:55]	Boroondas Gupte:	one page to rule them all ("them" being different operating systems)?
[14:55]	Ardy Lay:	There seem to be many differing opinions here on what is the ideal build environment what what versions of the viewer to spend time on.
[14:55]	Jonathan Yap:	As someone who just went through getting set up to compile for the first time I agree wholeheartedly
[14:55]	Merov Linden:	at least one page to cover the easy scenarios for the 3 platforms
[14:55]	Morgaine Dinova:	Just force everyone to use Linux, saves effort on the wiki ^_^
[14:55]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	im hopeing that can find out how to get things set up so that cmake can generate the needed files for VS2010 as well cause i tried to manualy load in the files and it is a is a big pain in the @$$
[14:55]	Merov Linden:	the ones we build on parabuild: should be more than 3 paragraphs
[14:56]	Celierra Darling:	(One of my courses last semester actually had to end up distributing a virutal machine because the dev environment was so difficult... :P )
[14:57]	Morgaine Dinova:	:-(
[14:58]	Merov Linden:	so the "How we proceed?" question answer: one of us has to volunteer to rewrite that build page, cover the "easy" cases, and link to the other pages for the "special" cases
[14:59]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Look for a experence wiki editor?
[14:59]	Jonathan Yap:	...and also test the instructions on a "clean" computer
[14:59]	Techwolf Lupindo:	vmware would be good for that Jonathan.
[14:59]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Viewer_2_Microsoft_Windows_Builds is getting fairly organized even though it is looking mainly at viewer 2 it could stiill be used for windows envioment in general
[14:59]	Oz Linden:	well, I'm setting up to build on linux and mac for the first time... I'm your test
[14:59]	Merov Linden:	that page for instance is ok but needs to updating and pushing all the "special cases" aside
[14:59]	Merov Linden:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Microsoft_Windows_Builds
[15:00]	Oz Linden	must leave to make his train... will catch up on the transcript
[15:00]	Robin Cornelius:	apt-get source snowglobe2; dpkg-buildpackage ;-p what could be easier ;-)
[15:00]	Merov Linden:	OK Oz: take that page: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Get_source_and_compile
[15:00]	Morgaine Dinova:	Cya Oz
[15:00]	Jacek Antonelli:	Take care Oz, nice to meet you
[15:00]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	dang i need to getr to aditi
[15:00]	Merov Linden:	darn, he's gone!
[15:00]	Merov Linden:	that was magic!
[15:01]	Morgaine Dinova:	lol
[15:01]	Jacek Antonelli:	Why doesn't he just take a hot air balloon instead of the train?
[15:01]	Merov Linden:	k, well, we didn't cover 5
[15:01]	Aimee Linden:	yeah, I'm surprised he needs a train
[15:01]	Merov Linden:	don't look behind that curtain guys!
[15:01]	Jacek Antonelli:	Oops!
[15:02]	Aimee Linden:	you'll be telling me there's no father christmas next
[15:02]	Ardy Lay:	Hmm.. Building 1.x gets funky on systems with "C:\Program Files(x86)\".
[15:02]	Vivienne Graves:	I haven't had any issues with that on 64-bit Win 7
[15:02]	Merov Linden:	looks like we're over time already
[15:02]	Morgaine Dinova:	Um... is the Linden Green Hand gone from the screen here?
[15:02]	Celierra Darling:	I have Lots of Windows keys so I can probably help test o ut the Windows instrctions
[15:02]	Robin Cornelius:	there is/was a cmake files bug that hated spaces
[15:02]	Ardy Lay:	Seems the path is hardcoded in the package project.
[15:03]	Vivienne Graves:	you need to make sure Python, Cygwin, and other development tools are in your C drive root
[15:03]	Celierra Darling:	[Ick, laggig]
[15:03]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Merov, that wiki page at leaset needs to point to various linux repors. Reason I say that is some foolks are looking for a better build and some repros do a better job then self building in some cases.
[15:03]	Merov Linden:	that was a nice into meeting with Oz for sure
[15:03]	Robin Cornelius:	i remember someone here or on #opensl committed a fix for spaces by quoting paths
[15:03]	Vivienne Graves:	and put your build files in a folder in the C root called 'dev' or 'build' or something
[15:04]	Morgaine Dinova:	Is the Linden green hand up on the screen here folks?
[15:04]	Merov Linden	think he'll put the VIEWER_CHANNEL answer on the wiki as suggested by 5.3
[15:04]	Robin Cornelius:	Morgaine, yes
[15:04]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Morgaine, yes. I don't have media truned on.
[15:04]	Robin Cornelius:	but i have no media in the build
[15:05]	Morgaine Dinova:	Thanks Robin. Bug in Imprudence beta 4's OpenJPEG then
[15:05]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	After stopping the parcel media I have to hover the screen before I see the green hand
[15:05]	Merov Linden:	k guys, needs to run
[15:05]	Ardy Lay:	You seeing rainbow splitches again?
[15:05]	Merov Linden:	see you again Tuesday, with more 2.0 ports and new 1.x bundles I guess
[15:05]	Ardy Lay:	Thickbrick, there is a JIRA issue open on that.
[15:06]	Techwolf Lupindo:	My biggest question is what is ""?
[15:06]	Techwolf Lupindo:	login_channel
[15:06]	Ardy Lay:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-363
[15:06]	Boroondas Gupte:	?
[15:06]	JIRA-helper:	[#SNOW-363] Media texture hesitates to return in scene after media play ends. Mouseover hastens the return.
[15:06]	Morgaine Dinova:	Ardy: nope, not the rainbow splotches, but just a yellow wall with a few brick patches. I'll experiment with KDU after meeting
[15:06]	Merov Linden:	Techwolf: as much as I know, both calues are set to be the same for Snowglobe
[15:07]	Merov Linden:	no diff actually
[15:07]	Ardy Lay:	Ah, I think Soft added a check for decode failures that discards the corrupted image instead of using it.
[15:07]	Merov Linden:	note that there's another LL_CHANNEL that's used in the code
[15:07]	Morgaine Dinova:	Ardy: ah, that would explain it.
[15:07]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I wantd to know if setting those two things differnt what will it do?
[15:08]	Merov Linden:	it's messy and, to be honest, I'd like to go to the bottom of it myself
[15:08]	Merov Linden:	as I need to write a "branding script" (remember?) and don't want to dupe things if I don't need to
[15:10]	Merov Linden:	I suspect some inconsistent scripting in there... bet we need only one...
[15:10]	Merov Linden:	or may be some old difference not used anymore
[15:10]	Aimee Linden:	bye!
[15:11]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	could be some vestigial remnants of the web-based login system?
[15:11]	sensory Hax:	bye bye all
[15:11]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	see you
[15:11]	Merov Linden:	culd well be
[15:11]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Need to have a "channel" for LL use, one "something" for the splashpage as the channel is tied to the splash page now.
[15:11]	Opensource Obscure:	thanks and by everybody : )
[15:11]	panelope Vella:	goodbye all!
[15:11]	Merov Linden:	see you guys!
[15:11]	Morgaine Dinova:	Cyu merov :-)
[15:12]	Ardy Lay:	Okay, back to hunting python script weirdness with hard coded paths.
[15:14]	Jacek Antonelli:	Take care all
[15:15]	Celierra Darling	waves!
[15:15]	Morgaine Dinova:	Cyu Jacek

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