Open Source Meeting/2009-08-27

[14:00] Questar Utu: Heh, well, it shouldn't cause too much in an already low load sim.
[14:00] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: And I find the Windows driver a pain because it lacks the "Turn the control pad off" function. :(
[14:00] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Hey Rob.
[14:01] Questar Utu: waves to Rob. :o
[14:01] Rob Linden: howdy
[14:01] Opensource Obscure: yay t i m e d i l a ti o o n
[14:01] Questar Utu: .. Woah. 3 Sim FPS..
[14:01] Questar Utu: And we're not even in Hell. o_o
[14:01] Opensource Obscure: its fine now.
[14:01] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Merov
[14:02] Merov Linden: is stuck...
[14:02] Questar Utu: Anyway, alrighty then.
[14:02] Morgaine Dinova: Hi Rob
[14:02] Merov Linden: hi all
[14:02] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: 'ello Merov.
[14:02] Questar Utu: I just hope it doesn't float into Mojito. o.o'
[14:02] Questar Utu: Yes, that's the drone I was mentioning. :p
[14:03] Rob Linden: here's the agenda: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Meeting/Agenda
[14:03] Rob Linden: not much on the agenda. First item:
[14:04] Rob Linden: At SLCC there was a "Sneak Peek" at viewer 2.0. Could we get more details such as whether it will be an alternate viewer, alternate skin, or the only supported viewer. How has the GUI code changed? Additions, refactoring, complete rewrite? Is 2.0 just about appearance or will it have other new things? Mm Alder 15:05, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
[14:04] Rob Linden: well....
[14:04] Geneko Nemeth: That isn't "not much"...
[14:04] Aimee Trescothick: oops forgot to add stuff, been a bit manic this week for some reason
[14:04] Rob Linden: I wasn't at SLCC, so I can't talk much about what was shown there
[14:04] Morgaine Dinova: Well written topic or question.
[14:05] Merov Linden: wasn't there either
[14:05] Rob Linden: the main thing that was highlighted was the Media Plugin API, which we covereed in pretty great detail last week (though we can talk more about it now)
[14:05] Mm Alder: I wasn't either but I saw the youtue videos.
[14:05] Morgaine Dinova: Ditto
[14:06] Rob Linden: for the other aspects of the discussion, I can't really talk about it other than pointing at Howard's blog post: https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/technology/blog/2009/06/12/viewer-2009
[14:06] Morgaine Dinova: I don't think the question is really about the new viewer. It's about how it affects the current one, and snowglobe.
[14:06] Mojito Sorbet: How about this: is it just a viewer change, or are there protocol changes at the same time?
[14:06] Mm Alder: What was the point of showing it as SLCC?
[14:07] Morgaine Dinova: Presumably the work on Snowglobe isn't being wasted.
[14:07] Mm Alder: Morgaine, yes, that's my main concern.
[14:07] Aimee Trescothick: I think the thing a lot of people are wondering that
[14:07] Merov Linden: certainly presumes the same!...
[14:07] Aimee Trescothick: great english there Aimee
[14:07] Morgaine Dinova: Hehe
[14:07] Geneko Nemeth: It's a bit disappointing that they decide to keep this under wrap because there are resident developers wanting to improve at the same direction as "Viewer 2009" seems to be.
[14:08] Geneko Nemeth: And be it Snowglobe, or any other community viewer, nobody wants to clash with such big changes.
[14:09] Rob Linden: it would definitely make our lives easier on the Snowglobe front if it were out in the open, but it's not. The work on Snowglobe is definitely not wasted
[14:09] Rob Linden: in fact, we're rolling in work from Snowglobe into Viewer 2.0
[14:09] Mm Alder: How do you know it's not wasted?
[14:09] Rob Linden: Mm: why wouldn't I know?
[14:10] Mm Alder: You don't seem to have much info.
[14:10] Mojito Sorbet: No, he just isnt TELLING us what hew knows
[14:10] Tillie Ariantho: yap.
[14:10] Mojito Sorbet: It cant be that big a secret within LL
[14:10] Rob Linden: yup, I can't tell you much info.
[14:10] Questar Utu: o_o
[14:10] Geneko Nemeth: And why is that?
[14:10] Merov Linden: I merged the map in 2.0 before I left for vacation
[14:11] Tillie Ariantho: Good question. I thought SL is going open, but it just reversed.
[14:11] Merov Linden: also the http-texture stuff we worked on in SnowGlobe (its most pervasive change) is in 2.0 too
[14:11] Mojito Sorbet: Aha. Will the new viewer be Open Source???
[14:11] Rob Linden: Geneko: for the reasons Howard outlined in his blog post
[14:12] Morgaine Dinova: The puzzling thing is why the huge secrecy. Although it's entirely LL's business, nobody seems to comprehend the secrecy, given that the viewers are open source.
[14:12] Rob Linden: Mojito: that's the plan
[14:12] Aimee Trescothick: I think people are concerned whether this is going to be the pattern for the future, or if temporarily closing the doors on 2.0 to make a splash is a one off
[14:12] Opensource Obscure: I guess viewer 2 will be under GPL if Snowglobe contribution are getting into it
[14:12] Morgaine Dinova: Oh wait!!!! Viewer2.0 *will* be open source, won't it?
[14:12] Geneko Nemeth: Heh. "A more agile apporach" is not speaking much.
[14:12] Tillie Ariantho: There isnt much in this post.
[14:12] Mojito Sorbet: If viewer 2.0 is not open source, suddenly I lose interest
[14:12] Aimee Trescothick: OO, they could still close it completely if they wanted to, under the contrib agreement
[14:12] Mm Alder: Admiral Admiral and I spent the last three months working on a UI project. Will that still fit ionto 2.0?
[14:13] Rob Linden: Mm: I'm not sure
[14:13] Rob Linden: depends on the project
[14:13] Merov Linden: Mm Alder: which UI project?
[14:13] Opensource Obscure: can you confirm LL plans keep supporting and working on Snowglobe in the future? when the new viewer will be standard, I mean. let's say in next 12-18 months
[14:13] Tillie Ariantho: I guess if the browser thingy is what viewer 2.0 will be, then it will suck and your new UI not fit in.
[14:13] Geneko Nemeth: Opensource Obscure, technically all contributions to LL belongs to both the contributor and LL, and LL happens to release it under the GPL. There's nothing stopping them using the code in a way not compliant with the GPL, but I don't see that would by any chance.
[14:13] Thickbrick Sleaford: That blog post tells us what viewer 2009 is not, not what it is.
[14:14] Opensource Obscure: thanks aimee & geneko
[14:14] Mm Alder: It makes changes to just about ever derived class of LLView. Is that safe?
[14:14] Merov Linden: I don't know. Where's that project?
[14:14] Mojito Sorbet: I cant imagine LL has the staff to support two parallel different viewers.
[14:14] Geneko Nemeth: Moreover, the Lindens responsible for this appears to have disappeared as well. Stopped their office hours altogether long ago and hadn't have much updates, leaving residents who care about resident experience in the dark.
[14:15] Geneko Nemeth: ...
[14:15] Geneko Nemeth: Now I'm just ranting. >_<
[14:15] Mm Alder: Merov, I have to get Admiral Admiral to post the patches.
[14:15] Mojito Sorbet: So either Viewer2 becomes the basis for a SnowGloibe2, based on it, or it is ethe end of Open Source viewers
[14:15] Rob Linden: Mm: if you're doing a bunch of development behind closed doors, how are we supposed to know any better about whether your work will mesh with ours than vice versa?
[14:15] Geneko Nemeth: Or maybe it would be "just another branch"...
[14:15] Tillie Ariantho: Community developers could just say the same.
[14:16] Mm Alder: Rob, it just got to the working stage. It's not even complete yet. We're just about to publish.
[14:16] Saijanai Kuhn: rummages aroundin inventory looking for a sharp knife to cut the tension with
[14:16] Aimee Trescothick: lol, was just thinking something similar Sai
[14:16] Rob Linden: well, this is in many ways one of those "we'll cross that bridge when we get to it" situations
[14:16] Mm Alder: The JIRA describing it has been posted since last year.
[14:17] Tillie Ariantho: Usually you can see what's on the other side, before reaching the bridge. :P
[14:17] Mojito Sorbet: Unless you kep your eyes closed
[14:17] Geneko Nemeth: But now nobody knows where the bridge even is.
[14:17] Tillie Ariantho: ^^
[14:18] Rob Linden: I don't think there's anything else we can really productively talk about on this topic, so can we move on?
[14:18] Rob Linden: Anything else from SLCC that might be of interest to the Open Source community. Mm Alder 15:05, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
[14:18] Morgaine Dinova: Was the question about Viewer2.0 being open source answered? I might have missed it.
[14:18] Aimee Trescothick: the plugin-api branch seems to be miss the bit that sends mouse and keyboard events back to the plug-in, or have it disabled, any chance we can find out whether that's deliberate/not ready/one of the features under wraps for 2.0
[14:19] Rob Linden: Morgaine: there's no plan to change the licensing
[14:19] Opensource Obscure: OH. COOL.
[14:19] Merov Linden: Aimee: I'm porting some recent LLMedia stuff back into that plugin-api branch
[14:19] Opensource Obscure: i thought you were avoiding to answer that. thanks!
[14:19] Aimee Trescothick: oh right :)
[14:19] Geneko Nemeth: Who do you think LL are, Sony? :p
[14:19] Merov Linden: I don't know about your exact question though
[14:19] Techwolf Lupindo: I hate no-script land. HUD faild to notify me of this.
[14:20] Aimee Trescothick: now I have VNC on a prim I want to be able to click it :D
[14:20] Merov Linden: but I expect all what is in the wiki doc to be there eventually
[14:20] Geneko Nemeth: Touchy prim is touchy.
[14:20] Rob Linden: Aimee: you're demo is really really cool, by the way. It's generated a ton of buzz at Linden Lab
[14:20] Aimee Trescothick: kinda defeats the object if I have to go and use the keyboard and mouse on the other machine LOL
[14:20] Morgaine Dinova: Rob: great to hear you say that Rob, thanks for settling that, fairly clearly at least . :-)
[14:20] Aimee Trescothick: thanks :)
[14:21] Rob Linden: [1] for those that havent' seen it
[14:21] Aimee Trescothick: all I did really was write the glue, it's the API and vnc client lib that do the heavy lifting
[14:22] Aimee Trescothick: shows how much easier the api makes things to do
[14:22] Merov Linden: Aimee: are you going to post a patch for the code?
[14:23] Aimee Trescothick: also [2]
[14:23] Morgaine Dinova: That Plugin-API is a master stroke. And I'm sure it'll get even more powerful. Kudos all 'round!!!
[14:24] Aimee Trescothick: I will do, it needs some cleaning up first
[14:24] Saijanai Kuhn: so patches for the plugins are now accepted?
[14:24] Merov Linden: as I said, I'm porting changes over so expect some changes in that plugin-api branch
[14:24] Aimee Trescothick: not sure how the process will work for plug-ins yet too, whether they will be kept separate or what
[14:24] Techwolf Lupindo: What was the plug in design to do oriagelly? Allow streaming media on a prim or something else?
[14:24] Merov Linden: shouldn't change the API though
[14:25] Rob Linden: Saijanai: the goal is to get that work into Snowglobe 1.2
[14:25] Aimee Trescothick: right
[14:25] Morgaine Dinova: Super!
[14:25] Saijanai Kuhn: Yeah, Aimme's had issues with getting feedback back to her side of things. Her laptop isnt live yet
[14:25] Aimee Trescothick: would be nice to have some mechanism to request textures from the client
[14:25] Rob Linden: the tricky part about it is that it really has a long way to go to get stable, so it's going to set us back a bit stability-wise
[14:25] Merov Linden: gl textures?
[14:25] Saijanai Kuhn: Handling of multiple mouse buttons seems to be lacking at the moment
[14:26] Aimee Trescothick: for the VNC thing, I need to get the login password in some way, would be nice to be able to put a login box on the prim to type into
[14:26] Aimee Trescothick: XUI on a prim or something :)
[14:26] Saijanai Kuhn: quietly chants localhost local host...
[14:26] Techwolf Lupindo: Or lltextbox?
[14:26] Aimee Trescothick: one thing I'd need for that is the UI textures
[14:27] Lillie Yifu: It is time to pry loose control of media streams from parcels
[14:27] Lillie Yifu: it is not that hard to hack a viewer that will take clientconfigured information
[14:27] Rob Linden: contemplates the right way to solve Aimee's probelm
[14:27] Merov Linden: Aimee: I see now...
[14:27] Aimee Trescothick: could access them directly from the plug-in I guess, but would be cleaner to request stuff from the cache via the client
[14:27] Saijanai Kuhn: at least in HUDs. I can understand security concerns sorta, but its my own HUD
[14:27] Mm Alder: Aimee, the patch I was talking about should help you. See [3]
[14:27] [[User:JIRA-helper: [#VWR-10924|JIRA-helper: [#VWR-10924]]:
[14:28] Aimee Trescothick: all just a vague idea floating around in my mind at the moment
[14:28] Saijanai Kuhn: goes back to the events handler plugin. WE need access to internal events so we don't have to use gridproxy for these things
[14:28] Thickbrick Sleaford: Saijanai, what's stopping it from setting the url to [4] ? or do you mean file:/// ?
[14:29] Saijanai Kuhn: the parcel media?
[14:29] Aimee Trescothick: this isn;t linked to scripts or anything server side though
[14:29] Thickbrick Sleaford: yes
[14:29] Saijanai Kuhn: the plugin works off of the parcel media
[14:29] Lillie Yifu: right now the stream isone media resource and it si contorlled by the server
[14:29] Lillie Yifu: but the code in the client can be changed so that it could be a list
[14:29] Lillie Yifu: and controlled form the client
[14:29] Aimee Trescothick: suspects per-prim media is on it's way
[14:29] Lillie Yifu: it isn't even that hard.
[14:30] Aimee Trescothick: but knows people probably can't talk about that :)
[14:30] Techwolf Lupindo: I can see a lot of uses for per-prim media.
[14:30] Aimee Trescothick: although T did demo multiple media textures at SLCC
[14:30] Thickbrick Sleaford: yes, having webapps as huds will be a definite plus
[14:30] Saijanai Kuhn: if anyone hasn't tried, download [5] and imagine the possibilities of a full-blown localhost webserver/webapp/db/blog/etc that can serve as a plugin
[14:30] Merov Linden: I can see a lot of abuse woth per-prim media...
[14:30] Aimee Trescothick: wasn't clear whether he meant per-prim, or whether the parcel would be allowed more than one but still tied to the parcel
[14:31] Saijanai Kuhn: in-HUD local host
[14:31] Aimee Trescothick: yeah, it's certainly not without problems to solve
[14:31] Robin Cornelius: there is cleary a balance here and currently 1 per parcel is tipped way to far in one direction
[14:31] Rob Linden: Aimee: still a work in progress. As Merov alluded to, it's the security issues that are killer here
[14:31] Mm Alder: Sai, how would others see your localhost?
[14:31] Lillie Yifu: and under some random parcel owner's control is way to far in one direction
[14:31] Lillie Yifu: since there is plenty of security risk with that
[14:31] Aimee Trescothick: nods, guessed that
[14:31] Saijanai Kuhn: Mm in general they wouldn't
[14:32] Merov Linden: agrees with Robin but doesn't have a good solution to propose
[14:32] Mm Alder: Then what's the point of having it in-world?
[14:32] Techwolf Lupindo: Right now, media busness here on SL is hampered by the one per parcel stream.
[14:32] Aimee Trescothick: one of the reasons for restricting it to one per parcel is client side load, as the media plugins are in a separate process I have 7 other cores dying to be given stuff to do :)
[14:33] Mealea Ying: swipes six of them
[14:33] Geneko Nemeth: You certainly haven't tried multithread rendering Aimee (doesn't work under GNU/Linux for some reason).
[14:33] Aimee Trescothick: gets the burden of rendering them out of the client
[14:33] Saijanai Kuhn: well, you can always mirror what you're doing to an external website, and there's possibilities like sideways communications via P2P
[14:33] Rob Linden: Aimee: yup, I'm guessing you're kinda unique in having an 8-way processor. just guessing :)
[14:33] Lillie Yifu: one per parcel doesn't help, since a user can run multiple aps and slow their own machine down in other ways
[14:33] Aimee Trescothick: ?
[14:33] Saijanai Kuhn: glances at his Mac Pro...
[14:33] Aimee Trescothick: oh yeah, but there are plenty of people out there with quad-cores
[14:33] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: glances at his aging dual-core.
[14:34] Rob Linden: anyway, the other aspect of this is that with one piece of media per parcel, if someone turns of media, they miss out on exactly one piece of media per parcel
[14:34] Thickbrick Sleaford: heh
[14:34] Lillie Yifu: well actually there are two
[14:34] Rob Linden: people can stay paranoid about security, and not miss out on that much
[14:34] Lillie Yifu: the sound and the media resource
[14:34] Aimee Trescothick: yeah, it does tip the balance a lot
[14:35] Thickbrick Sleaford: the browser/whatever being in a seperate process is also good for security
[14:35] Rob Linden: Thickbrick, it brings some, but there's still issues
[14:35] Aimee Trescothick: but it's a problem that needs to be solved, people are getting used to living in a much more media rich environment than we can currently provide
[14:35] Kitty Barnett: just because someone doesn't want parcel media doesn't mean they don't want their own media though... big difference between parcel media and any private media you might want to go on a HUD attachment
[14:35] Rob Linden: for example, what does the cookie model look like
[14:36] Lillie Yifu: or listening to off oyur own computer
[14:36] Rob Linden: lots of thorny issues to work out, but not much we're probably going to solve by talking about it here
[14:36] Aimee Trescothick: wants to run a VNC server on an iPhone, so she can carry replicate it as a virtual iPhone for example
[14:36] Aimee Trescothick: tie that to a parcel and it's a complete waste of time
[14:36] Saijanai Kuhn: croquet on a prim as a holographic comunicatios system
[14:37] Lillie Yifu: yes the easiest thing to do is patch an os viewer and release th patch allowing client side control of media
[14:37] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: thinks he may crash soon due to 940MB RAM usage.
[14:37] Questar Utu: x.x
[14:37] Rob Linden: anyway, the one thing I'll say on the subject is we're very motivated to make sure this is really useful functionality
[14:37] Aimee Trescothick: has been thinking about putting QR code detection into the client to pick up media URLs from textures
[14:38] Aimee Trescothick: wonders why she's talking in the 3rd person so much today
[14:38] Saijanai Kuhn: QR?
[14:38] Geneko Nemeth: It's a kind of 2-d barcode popular in Japanese mobile phones.
[14:38] Aimee Trescothick: [6]
[14:38] Saijanai Kuhn: ah, OK
[14:38] Geneko Nemeth: (Unfortunately not popular in Chinese or Canadian phones...)
[14:39] Aimee Trescothick: anyone that doesn't have a compatible viewer can just point their cellphone camera at it and still view the media :D
[14:39] Techwolf Lupindo: As far a security goes, just don't allow auto-anything. Currrenlty, I cna't play anything unless I press the play button. That part should be keeped.
[14:39] Lillie Yifu: actually right now if you ahve media on someoen can force you to play media
[14:40] Aimee Trescothick: euro mobile phones often have it too
[14:40] Aimee Trescothick: (i.e. nokia)
[14:41] Merov Linden: yeah, the "media on worn prims" is an issue... unintentional navigation to content...
[14:41] Rob Linden: on a somewhat related note: anyone working on patches for Snowglobe that they expect to submit in the next week?
[14:41] Rob Linden: oh....heck, I almost forgot....
[14:41] Techwolf Lupindo: Mine got commented a couple days ago. But a new bug cropped that is related to that and LL is the only person that can fix it.
[14:41] Rob Linden: did you all see this: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-93 ?
[14:41] [[User:JIRA-helper: [#SNOW-93|JIRA-helper: [#SNOW-93]]:
[14:42] Aimee Trescothick: proposes we pick up VWR-11118
[14:42] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11118:
[#VWR-11118] doesn't say: "hippos!" anymore
[14:42] Techwolf Lupindo: Can the new plug-in thingie be used for that?
[14:42] Merov Linden: Techwolf: which one?
[14:42] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Haha, Aimee.
[14:42] Techwolf Lupindo: -93
[14:42] Thickbrick Sleaford: I'm working on a patch for SNOW-112, but not sure it'll be ready in a week
[14:42] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-112:
[#SNOW-112] map textures: are corrupted
[14:43] Kitty Barnett: putting it in Snowglobe and not the main viewer would kind of defeat the "newbies don't have access to a translator"
[14:43] Rob Linden: Thickbrick: great! Techwolf: which issue are you blocked on?
[14:43] Aimee Trescothick: Snowglobe as a route to the main viewer Kitty
[14:43] Aimee Trescothick: I think that's the point
[14:43] Saijanai Kuhn: points out that a localhost media plugin couldhandle a lot of interesting thigns like media translation, text-to-speech, speech-to-text, etc
[14:43] Rob Linden: +1 Aimee
[14:44] Mojito Sorbet: The better translator HUDs are quite sophisticated about guessing languages, leetting me do private transl;ations, translating only certain people, etc. You better include all of that.
[14:44] Aimee Trescothick: use us as the guinea pigs :D
[14:44] Techwolf Lupindo: [7]
[14:44] [[User:JIRA-helper: [#SNOW-204|JIRA-helper: [#SNOW-204]]:
[14:44] Kitty Barnett: haven't seen anything from Snowglobe make it into any main viewer yet
[14:44] Techwolf Lupindo: LL don't use gcc 4.3 yet, so it is currently a non-blocker.
[14:44] Aimee Trescothick: we've not had a main viewer release since snowglobe started have we?
[14:44] Rob Linden: Aimee: nope
[14:45] Aimee Trescothick: oooh that does remind me of something though
[14:45] Tillie Ariantho: Is there a complete description finally, how to get SL compiled with VC2008?
[14:45] Rob Linden: oh, right Techwolf. yeah, that's a tough one. we've got a lot of problems that fall into that general realm
[14:45] Aimee Trescothick: there were some early patches from VWR that went into Snowglobe before SNOW was created, and got closed
[14:46] Aimee Trescothick: is there any danger of those getting overlooked?
[14:46] Mm Alder: Tillie, I was about to ask the same thing. :-)
[14:46] Rob Linden: Aimee: yeah, there's definitely a danger of that, but by all means, bring those to our attention
[14:46] Techwolf Lupindo: We can't fix it. So it up to LL to update/patch there liberies.
[14:47] Aimee Trescothick: did spot a linden posting a youtube of one of those bugs in the minimap that were fixed back then a couple of days ago which is what made me think of it
[14:47] Rob Linden: On the library front: there's sort of a short term, medium term, and a long term thing
[14:48] Aimee Trescothick: VWR-12696
[14:48] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-12696:
[#VWR-12696] object overlay: blurred, or only rendered within a restricted area after resizing the floater
[14:48] Rob Linden: short term, there's lots of little bugs that are a pain to fix because we don't have a streamlined library maintenance system. So, there's lots of tedious work every time there's a library to be updated, which is why we do it pretty much only when we're forced
[14:49] Rob Linden: medium term: we'll power through some issues like VS 2008 eventually because we'll want to switch to it ourselves. CMake has made it easier for us to contemplate that future
[14:49] Aimee Trescothick: the other two I have from back then were fairly visible new features VWR-12748 and VWR-8008, so less likely to get overlooked
[14:49] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-12748:
[#VWR-12748] MiniMap zoom: range, and magnify avatar markers at higher zoom levels
[14:49] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-8008:
[#VWR-8008] to select: preset aspect ratios in texture preview floaters
[14:49] Techwolf Lupindo: I havn't had any lib related problems on my system and its using much later verison of libs LL uses.
[14:49] Merov Linden: bears scars of the libcurl update...
[14:49] Aimee Trescothick: there are probably others though
[14:49] Techwolf Lupindo: versions that is
[14:49] Rob Linden: long term: what we really need is a better library maintenance system, which is what I've been agitating for for a little while now, and plan to push harder on
[14:49] Aimee Trescothick: should I reopen VWR-12696 at least?
[14:49] Rob Linden: reads back through Aimee's messages now
[14:50] Aimee Trescothick: sorry :D
[14:51] Rob Linden: Aimee: lemme check on the internal status on VWR-12696
[14:51] Aimee Trescothick: ok
[14:52] Mm Alder: Rob, I think waiting until LL changes to VS2008 is too much "medium term" Since VS2005 Express is no longer available, you're losing a lot of potential developers.
[14:52] Rob Linden: Aimee: ok....no need to reopen VWR-12696....it's fix pending for purposes of Viewer 2.0
[14:52] Aimee Trescothick: great :)
[14:53] Geneko Nemeth: is one of the potential developers lost because of the difficulties building on Woe32 :p
[14:53] Tillie Ariantho: Me too.
[14:53] Rob Linden: Q's team has been pretty diligent about ensuring that Snowglobe patches get pulled in, regardless of what things look like in JIRA
[14:53] Tillie Ariantho: I got it compiled on the Mac some time ago, back when Nicholaz did his builds.
[14:53] Thickbrick Sleaford: that's good to hear
[14:53] Tillie Ariantho: But not working in PC with VC2008
[14:54] Rob Linden: so, Aimee, I wouldn't worry about those things you've checked into Snowglobe
[14:54] Tillie Ariantho: and with snow leppard coming tomorrow I fear on Mac there might be some problems now, too. ^^
[14:54] Aimee Trescothick: :) I figured that was probably the case but just wanted to make sure
[14:54] Rob Linden: the ones I'm more worried about is old patches that are laying around in VWR, either marked as "won't finish" or just not touched for a while
[14:54] Aimee Trescothick: SL compiles and runs fine on Snow Leopard
[14:54] Tillie Ariantho: ah =)
[14:54] Rob Linden: you all should feel free to raise any of those as Snowglobe candidates
[14:55] Morgaine Dinova: If only the rest of the viewer could be partitioned into plugins ... imagine how much easier it would be to develop if the UI were separate, and the prim renderers were plugins, and the avatar was pluggable, and ... and ... and ;-))))
[14:55] Merov Linden: SL on SL!
[14:55] Tillie Ariantho: haha
[14:55] Merov Linden: or SnowG on SnowL
[14:55] Aimee Trescothick: just select GCC 4.0 and the 10.5 framework for now
[14:55] Aimee Trescothick: yeah, the SLSLSG thing has been making my head hurt the past few months
[14:55] Saijanai Kuhn: AImee running VNC via an inworld laptop and controlling a Cobalt char on a prim
[14:56] Aimee Trescothick: lol
[14:56] Morgaine Dinova: Hehe Sai
[14:56] Saijanai Kuhn: and programming it too
[14:56] Rob Linden: we're just about out of time. Any questions above I missed?
[14:57] Mm Alder: VS2008 When?
[14:57] Tillie Ariantho: Can you make the VC2008 issues short term? ,)
[14:57] Tillie Ariantho: VS I mean
[14:57] Rob Linden: Mm: not sure. we don't have anyone identified to do the work to fix everything up
[14:58] Mm Alder: Maybe you should pull someone off SnowGlobe. :-)
[14:58] Merov Linden: and that would be?...
[14:58] Mm Alder: It would be a net win in the long run.
[14:58] Mm Alder: Merov, did I hear you volunteer? :-)
[14:59] Merov Linden: there are a bunch of VS2008 PJIRA records, would be nice to have a meta bug with a unique all encompassing patch
[14:59] Rob Linden: Mm: if we don't have anyone on Snowglobe, we don't have much urgency around getting VS 2008 working :-P
[14:59] Mm Alder: Catch 22
[15:00] Saijanai Kuhn: Mm another use-case for localhost HUDs is for control panels for pupeteering i/o...
[15:00] Twisted Laws: who builds meerkat? if you put the meerkat source from svn it configures and compiles fine on VS2008.
[15:00] Saijanai Kuhn: remember: they don't have to be html. Could be anything rendered into the texture with feedback for keyboard mouse
[15:01] Rob Linden: anyway, we hear you on VS 2008....I don't like coming here to tell you that it's not working any more than you like to hear it, so I'm motivated to figure out something....just not sure what yet
[15:01] Aimee Trescothick: "Catch-22; the situation caused by changing the listening port of a remote SSH server, while forgetting to reconfigure the firewall settings"
[15:01] Rob Linden: :)
[15:01] Morgaine Dinova: Hahaha
[15:01] Thickbrick Sleaford: eeep
[15:01] Aimee Trescothick: has never done that, honest :S
[15:01] Morgaine Dinova: Also known as "sawing off the branch you're sitting on".
[15:02] Aimee Trescothick: lol
[15:02] Lillie Yifu: meerkat is so easy to build even an art major can do it
[15:02] Rob Linden: Lillie: get the Meerkat devs contributing to Snowglobe ;-)
[15:02] Rob Linden: anyway, I should run
[15:02] Aimee Trescothick: did make the colo staff laugh and wave the support fee when I described it as that though :D
[15:03] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: See you later, Rob.
[15:03] Rob Linden: thanks everyone!
[15:03] Thickbrick Sleaford: see you Rob
[15:03] Mm Alder: Thanks Rob.
[15:03] Questar Utu: I tried Meerkat.. It seemed to just be a copy of Emerald..
[15:03] Questar Utu: Yay, severe chat lag.
[15:03] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Eeek, nice lag spike.

Open Source Meeting/2009-08-27

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