User:Enkidu Linden/Office Hours/2010-04-22

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List of Attendees

Transcript

[11:00] Xugu Madison: hey Enkidu!
[11:00] Enkidu Linden: well hello!
[11:01] xstorm Radek: greetings Enkidu
[11:01] Enkidu Linden: hey xstorm, your mic is open
[11:01] Enkidu Linden: :)
[11:02] Enkidu Linden: i don't have my headset on anymore, so i wouldn't know the difference
[11:02] xstorm Radek: i dislike the damn game style key command i like to see them turn off
[11:02] Latif Khalifa: HI ALL
[11:03] Enkidu Linden: hey latif, dzonatas
[11:03] xstorm Radek: greetings
[11:03] Dzonatas Sol: Hi
[11:03] Enkidu Linden: sorry i couldn't make it last week
[11:03] Dzonatas Sol: I use those keys =)
[11:03] Enkidu Linden: did anyone show up and pretend to be me?
[11:03] xstorm Radek: Enkidu one quick Q&A
[11:03] Enkidu Linden: shoot
[11:03] Latif Khalifa: nobody pretended to be you, unfortunatelly :)
[11:03] Dzonatas SolDzonatas Sol looks innocently
[11:04] xstorm Radek: will xstreet make inworld venders ? using some the the data thats used at this meeting ?
[11:05] Latif KhalifaLatif Khalifa doesn't know exactly which part of secondlife.com enkidu is working on
[11:05] Tillie Ariantho: Hello! :)
[11:05] Latif Khalifa: hey Tillie
[11:05] Latif Khalifa: enkidu fell asleep
[11:05] Enkidu Linden: heh
[11:06] Enkidu Linden: jeff!
[11:06] Latif Khalifa: or he's just ignirng us :P
[11:06] Enkidu Linden: get off my jelly dome!
[11:06] xstorm Radek: lol
[11:06] Enkidu Linden: re: vendors: i don't really know what xstreet is up to with those
[11:06] Jeff Linden: that's not what you said last night
[11:06] Base Diavolo: i dunno if i landed in anyone's lap...if i did it was certainly a pleasure!
[11:06] Xugu Madison: hey Jeff!
[11:06] Jeff Linden: hi Xugu
[11:06] xstorm Radek: OMG!! Jeff looks like a new person
[11:07] Xugu Madison: New Linden! Quick, before it escapes!
[11:07] Latif Khalifa: lol
[11:07] xstorm Radek: Jeff press the Home key on your key board
[11:07] Enkidu Linden: i've heard they're working on phasing out the in world ATM things, but don't know much beyond that
[11:07] Latif Khalifa: ATM's are dead
[11:08] Enkidu Linden: latif, i do broad engineering work on sl.com
[11:08] Enkidu Linden: if it broke, it's probably my fault
[11:08] xstorm Radek: Jeff next time press Home not down lol
[11:08] Latif Khalifa: that sounds like something you'd put on lindedin :P
[11:08] Jeff Linden: yes, everyone blame enkidu
[11:08] WolfPup Lowenhar: hello to everyone
[11:08] Latif Khalifa: linked in
[11:09] xstorm Radek: Jeff i will not blame him he knows how to fly for starts
[11:09] Enkidu Linden: we can talk about some specific things i've done on sl.com if you'd like
[11:09] Dzonatas Sol: I don't know how to blame... is that why BDSM sims exist?
[11:09] Latif Khalifa: we know about the transaction history
[11:10] Enkidu Linden: yes, that was fun
[11:10] xstorm Radek: First off the old ATM's made a lot of lag do to out dated scripts
[11:10] Enkidu Linden: we should revisit that and make a real api for it
[11:10] Latif Khalifa: i think SL should provide a wide range of apis
[11:11] Latif Khalifa: starting with oauth/openid
[11:11] Enkidu Linden: why start with that?
[11:11] Base Diavolo: this is way above my head. im gonna go back to playing with dirt and prims. :) peace out peeps!
[11:11] Skills Hak: hi:)
[11:12] xstorm Radek: and Xstreetsl needs some inworld venders to make xstreet a real part of second life again Unless Hippo is paying off Linden labs no to do that
[11:12] Dzonatas Sol: I think the ATMs are worth it... just chttp wasn't complete when in mass use
[11:12] Latif Khalifa: It would allow 3rd party apps to evolve around SL
[11:12] Latif Khalifa: now every site for SL users need to provide their own login/credentials... pain
[11:12] Xugu MadisonXugu Madison would love to see web APIs for doing L$ transactions out of world. PayPal style....
[11:13] Latif Khalifa: (and prone to errors)
[11:13] Enkidu Linden: yes, very
[11:13] Latif Khalifa: i know a ton of people who used their SL password when registering on the old SLExchange (Xstreet) when it was an independant site
[11:13] Enkidu Linden: i'd love to see us use openid and oauth as well
[11:13] xstorm Radek: the way i see it Pink and them have been pulling Xstreet out of SL in some way to market it and then sale it off to a 3rd party company
[11:13] Latif Khalifa: you ask people for second life first and last name and to create a password
[11:14] Latif Khalifa: and a lot of them type in their sl password
[11:14] Enkidu Linden: yeah, that's dangerous
[11:14] Enkidu Linden: of course, most people have pretty bad password management habits anyway
[11:14] xstorm Radek: ok i will stop bugging every one
[11:14] Enkidu Linden: my password for everything is hellokitteh
[11:14] Xugu MadisonXugu Madison thinks people should handle passwords by giving them to him to manage
[11:14] xstorm Radek: have a great day
[11:14] Latif Khalifa: at the end Xstreet had to put big warning "don't use SL password" here
[11:15] Dzonatas Sol: at least openid with attributes... I thought LL was gonna decide to be a broker or not... maybe thatmotive got lost in the last half year
[11:15] Latif Khalifa: (all of this before it got bought by ll)
[11:15] Enkidu Linden: hey xstorm, i think there is some outreach going on to xstreet vendors
[11:15] Skills Hak: you would be surprised how many people share their account with friends and family members :P
[11:15] Skills Hak: passwords that is
[11:15] Latif Khalifa: Skills, sharing on purpose is not a problem, accidental sharing is worrysome :P
[11:15] xstorm Radek: and now xstreet is using our main logon passwords
[11:16] Skills Hak: hehe
[11:16] Enkidu Linden: ironic!
[11:16] Xugu Madison: Skills, I once nearly strangled a sys-admin for doing that
[11:16] Skills Hak: oh did ya hear about the jira hack
[11:16] Skills Hak: a week ago or so
[11:16] Enkidu Linden: but, to bring these two conversations together, have you noticed how xstreet lets you log in using your sl credentials?
[11:16] Skills Hak: http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/Apache-s-Atlassian-JIRA-system-compromised-976465.html
[11:16] xstorm Radek: and the coding has not been updated so no telling how open ended that xstreet magic box is
[11:17] Latif Khalifa: Enkidu, yes, we noticed it's using openid service, that is closed to only linden apps :(
[11:17] xstorm Radek: its a back door thats just has not been open as of yet
[11:17] Xugu Madison: Enkidu, yes, yes, I have. Have you noticed XSL needs those credentials every single time I want to check my sales figures? :)
[11:18] Enkidu Linden: baby steps!
[11:18] Dzonatas Sol: yes
[11:18] xstorm Radek: Hackers do not take baby steps
[11:18] Dzonatas Sol: thats why they leave family behind
[11:19] xstorm Radek: sorry to say that
[11:19] Skills Hak: how do you know!
[11:19] Skills Hak: you must be a hacker!
[11:19] Tillie Ariantho: :P
[11:19] Enkidu Linden: so, i've also worked on sl.com's dashboard
[11:19] Xugu MadisonXugu Madison hugs the dashboard "It gives me warm fuzzies...."
[11:19] Latif Khalifa: heh baby steps, https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-60 has been there from early 2007
[11:19] Add OpenID provider service to site
[11:20] xstorm Radek: i was working with compuyers back in 1975 i did not need to be a hacker lol
[11:20] Dzonatas Sol: are the profiles on the web gonna be more linked to the ones in-world?
[11:20] Latif KhalifaLatif Khalifa wonders in which decade will enkidu get around to implement it :P
[11:20] Enkidu Linden: i believe so
[11:20] Jeff Linden: He's going to do it over the weekend
[11:20] Dzonatas Sol: =)
[11:21] Enkidu Linden: when that baby gets a driver's license, latif
[11:21] xstorm Radek: lol
[11:21] Latif Khalifa: yeah i figured, not in this one
[11:22] Enkidu Linden: well, like i said, i would personally like to see us make use of openid and oauth extensively
[11:22] Enkidu Linden: for exactly the reasons you described
[11:23] Dzonatas Sol: awesome!
[11:23] Tillie Ariantho: =)
[11:23] Dahlia Trimble: hi :)
[11:24] xstorm Radek: i have to go see if they are picking on poor jack
[11:24] Enkidu Linden: hey dahlia
[11:24] xstorm Radek: laterz all
[11:24] couch sit 1: llStopAnimation: Script trying to stop animations but agent not found
[11:24] Skills Hak: not much happening over there at hack's
[11:24] xstorm Radek: did he not show ?
[11:24] Enkidu Linden: so, the week before last we were talking about browser performance issues
[11:25] Skills Hak: i was hopeing he would talk about the recent woodbury stunt
[11:25] Skills Hak: but no :/
[11:25] Skills Hak: jack's*
[11:25] Tillie Ariantho: Inworld browser or SL webpages in a regular browser?
[11:25] Enkidu Linden: well, both!
[11:26] Enkidu Linden: in viewer 2.0 the in world browser is webkit based
[11:26] Latif Khalifa: yeah it takes forever to bring up htmlized search
[11:26] Tillie Ariantho: No problems on my side with regular browsers.
[11:26] Enkidu Linden: tillie: so you're the one
[11:26] Enkidu Linden: i knew all this stuff worked great for someone
[11:26] Tillie Ariantho: And about the inworld browser, I think its more search that is borked, not the browser. ^^
[11:27] Latif Khalifa: yeah the part that Enkidu is responsible for :P
[11:27] Enkidu Linden: haha
[11:27] Enkidu Linden: now you've got the hang of it
[11:27] Tillie Ariantho: Search just sometimes doesnt come back, especially on the ALL page. it just keeps loading.
[11:28] Dzonatas Sol: it's not quite browser performance, but i got errors like this: http://twitpic.com/1heeut/full
[11:28] Dzonatas Sol: dunno where test101.com came from
[11:28] Lillie Yifu: sorry about that everyone
[11:28] Dzonatas Sol: must have been shared media offscreen glitch
[11:29] Enkidu Linden: when search doesn't come back, what does the browser look like?
[11:29] Tillie Ariantho: I had some client browser problems long ago, but you guys then changed the rendering engine, that seems to have fixed the problems for me
[11:29] Latif Khalifa: well viewer2 is so broken, you cannot even type @ char in the built in browser on majority europen keyboards ;)
[11:29] Enkidu Linden: hey aimee!
[11:30] Aimee Linden: hi :)
[11:30] Latif Khalifa: it's all Aimee's fault!
[11:30] Tillie Ariantho: Enkidu: It is just empty! While page, and the "loading" thingy at the bottom.
[11:30] WolfPup Lowenhar: hello aimee
[11:30] Tillie Ariantho: White page ...
[11:30] Dahlia TrimbleDahlia Trimble blames Aimee
[11:30] Aimee Linden: as log as it's not a segmentation fault we'll be fine
[11:30] Aimee Linden: *long
[11:30] Enkidu Linden: a white page? sounds like a 500 or something about as bad
[11:31] Latif Khalifa: Aimee, I cannot type in email addresses in built-in browser, and I blame you :P
[11:31] Tillie Ariantho: Enkidu: feels like the search request got out, and the server died before returning a result. ^^
[11:31] Aimee Linden: lol
[11:31] Tillie Ariantho: So the client waiting forever.
[11:31] Dahlia Trimble: oooooo are we picking on the internal browser? I have a comment...
[11:31] Enkidu Linden: that could be the case
[11:31] Tillie Ariantho: Last time I only got rid of it by closing the whole client and restarting it.
[11:32] Dahlia Trimble: sometimes there is no "back" button
[11:32] Enkidu Linden: i don't know how the search team handles request timeouts
[11:32] Tillie Ariantho: Maybe I could have waited for a timeout, too.
[11:32] Tillie Ariantho: No idea if the client has a search timeout. :)
[11:33] Enkidu Linden: well, you'd think the client would figure things out when the connection is closed
[11:33] Enkidu Linden: so maybe it's just hanging open
[11:33] Enkidu Linden: i'm speculating, of course
[11:33] Jeff Linden: oh, hi aimee!
[11:33] Tillie Ariantho: =)
[11:33] Enkidu Linden: about the back button, wow
[11:34] Tillie Ariantho: Enkidu: no idea if there is something in the client log, I will have a closer look next time. ^^
[11:34] Enkidu Linden: during viewer help development we noticed webkit's js api for navigation is pretty bad
[11:34] Dahlia Trimble: it's usually there when I dont care and it conveniently is missing when I want to go back :(
[11:34] Aimee Linden: hey :)
[11:35] Enkidu Linden: hey emmsea, your mic is open
[11:35] Enkidu Linden: i see voice waves
[11:35] EmmSea Hammerer: ty
[11:35] Enkidu Linden: tillie, that would be great
[11:36] Enkidu Linden: don't hesitate to paste it into pjira
[11:36] Tillie Ariantho: yah, will do.
[11:36] Enkidu Linden: i think the search team triages weekly. do you know, jeff?
[11:37] Jeff Linden: I believe they used to
[11:37] Jeff Linden: and I believe they are going to start again
[11:37] Jeff Linden: I do not know if their current triage process is weekly.
[11:38] Enkidu Linden: on the subject of web performance and things i work on, i noticed a performance failure in the viewer help system that's pretty much my fault
[11:38] Latif Khalifa: we knew it! :P
[11:38] Enkidu Linden: so if you've found yourself saying "what's taking this help so long?".. yeah, my bad
[11:39] Dahlia Trimble: it's not Aimee's fault?
[11:39] Tillie Ariantho: Enkidu: :P
[11:39] Enkidu Linden: i neglected to set default Expires headers so client side caching is probably not so hot at the moment
[11:40] Tillie Ariantho: Perhaps the output waa too fast for Enkidu, so some sleeps got into the code for better reading. :p
[11:40] Tillie Ariantho: was
[11:40] Latif Khalifa: do you use a reverse proxy?
[11:41] Enkidu Linden: it is not using a reverse proxy, because we had planned to migrate help pages out to s3/cloudfront
[11:42] Enkidu Linden: but i'll be changing that too, because squid is my favorite
[11:42] Latif Khalifa: yeah for static content like that it will solve all performance problems
[11:43] Latif Khalifa: and you can enforce default expire time if not present in the headers :)
[11:43] Enkidu Linden: yes
[11:43] Dahlia Trimble: speaking of s3/cloudhost, anyone know if the maptile url in Snowglobe is still hard coded? and if V2 uses the new map tiles, and if so if there is a way to specify the url at runtime?
[11:44] Latif Khalifa: hard coded last time i asked robin
[11:44] Dahlia Trimble: :(
[11:44] Enkidu Linden: you want to have some fun with the maps?
[11:44] Enkidu Linden: i'm curious
[11:45] Dahlia Trimble: well dunno if fun is the right word lol
[11:45] Dahlia Trimble: would eventually like the map in snowglobe to work with OpenSim
[11:45] Latif Khalifa: trying to make snowglobe/viewer2 map work in OpenSim
[11:45] Dahlia Trimble: and V2
[11:45] Dzonatas Sol: with SNOW-375, I just use it to GET the current avatar position, and then the world map is an separate program... so you can hardcore/not-hardcode it
[11:45] HTTP based API: "thinking outside the box" Human Interface Devices (i.e. Chat/IM/Contacts/Etc windows in separate-processes/plugins/ubiquitous-computing/accessibility)
[11:45] Latif Khalifa: if you ask me they've messed it up by not using browser map
[11:46] Enkidu Linden: i could be mistaken but i don't think the web version is all feature-rish
[11:46] Enkidu Linden: rich
[11:47] Latif Khalifa: you could overlay google maps with all sort of fun things .9
[11:47] Enkidu Linden: er, as feature-rich
[11:47] Dahlia Trimble: the 1.XX map UI had more features, the V2 one is harder to use
[11:48] Tillie Ariantho: Yah, the x/y/z input fields are gone, that sucks completely. ^^
[11:48] Enkidu Linden: yeah, i'd love to move our web maps to the latest gmap api version and let the mashups ensue
[11:48] Dahlia Trimble: especially that Tillie
[11:48] Jeff Linden: ideally there would be more than just xyz
[11:48] Dahlia Trimble: web maps would be cool :)
[11:48] Lillie Yifu: hmmm that reminds me
[11:49] Jeff Linden: but it just leads back to someone's point earlier that we should just open up all the APIs and let everything mash together
[11:49] Tillie Ariantho: If I wanna TP to a sim by clicking it and, I will always fall 500 meters down when coming from my skybox. Cause I cant change the coords to ground anymore...
[11:49] Enkidu Linden: yes
[11:49] Dahlia Trimble: Tillie I fall 3000 meters :(
[11:49] Lillie Yifu: The sky still needs to be fixed
[11:49] Latif Khalifa: Tillie, easy fix -> uninstall viewer2 :P
[11:49] Lillie Yifu: in v2.0
[11:49] Latif Khalifa: Lillie even
[11:49] Enkidu Linden: i have a parachute
[11:49] Xugu Madison: Yes! Open APIs for all...
[11:49] Dahlia Trimble: I'm forcing myself to use V2
[11:49] Tillie Ariantho: Tillie: I am in snowglobe 1.4 right now. :P
[11:49] Tillie Ariantho: er.
[11:50] Tillie Ariantho: Yah. :P
[11:50] Latif Khalifa: Dahlia, why?
[11:50] Tillie Ariantho: I am talking to myself now. haha#
[11:50] Dahlia Trimble: dunno... :/
[11:50] Dzonatas Sol: VWRAP plugin to world map... =p
[11:50] Enkidu Linden: that's an interesting idea
[11:50] Tillie Ariantho: =)
[11:50] Enkidu Linden: i wonder what our vwrap people would say about it
[11:50] Lillie Yifu: Is there a way to make it so that the sky will take coordinates from a url?
[11:51] Lillie Yifu: in some kind of restful way?
[11:51] Dzonatas Sol: Enkidu, probably best to wonder when LL would support a beta grid with vwrap to test
[11:52] Enkidu Linden: nice burn!
[11:52] Dzonatas Sol: nah...
[11:52] Dzonatas Sol: just need basic presence
[11:52] Dzonatas Sol: then the world map dongle could happen
[11:52] Enkidu Linden: lillie, you can use a z-coord in a maps.sl.com url and paste it into the v2 location bar
[11:52] Enkidu Linden: is that what you meant/?
[11:53] Too many HTTP requests too fast.
[11:53] Lillie Yifu: for the sky?
[11:53] Enkidu Linden: heh
[11:53] Enkidu Linden: well if you want to pay the sky a visit
[11:53] Lillie Yifu: right now what the viewer deos each session is gnerate a random sky
[11:53] Aimee Linden: you can use copy SLurl on the map window and paste it into the navigation bar, then edit it, but that's not exactly as intuitive as having x/y/z boxes was I'll admit
[11:54] Lillie Yifu: in 1.x I coded a way to take a diferent array and make stars with that
[11:54] Latif Khalifa: yeah real user friendly :P manually tweak slurl
[11:54] Lillie Yifu: but it would be better to have the viewer us a url, which could be a file.
[11:54] Enkidu Linden: haha
[11:54] Tillie Ariantho: Aimee: I want a fix, no workaround. :P
[11:54] Aimee Linden: I think Robin did a star map patch for Snowglobe
[11:54] Tillie Ariantho: Yah, wanna see it! :)
[11:55] Aimee Linden: saw that recently, don't think it's gone in yet though
[11:55] Lillie Yifu: I have not seen that one, how would I find it in the code base?
[11:55] Tillie Ariantho: We did talk about it at last weeks triage or something, no?
[11:55] Tillie Ariantho: I remember that one.
[11:55] Aimee Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-577
[11:55] Real star maps
[11:56] Latif Khalifa: did "clear" ever made it back to viewer2 map window?
[11:56] Enkidu Linden: oh cool
[11:56] Enkidu Linden: i love this
[11:57] Tillie Ariantho: The snapshots on that jira are not really well, I just see BLACK all over. :P
[11:57] Enkidu Linden: i see that merov is also into it
[11:58] Lillie Yifu: hmmm yes
[11:58] Lillie Yifu: this is something like what I tried
[11:58] Lillie Yifu: I had color stars though
[11:58] Lillie YifuLillie Yifu smiles
[11:59] Tillie Ariantho: I want some spiral galaxies and neutron stars up there at night. :P
[11:59] Jeff LindenJeff Linden wonders if there'd be anyone AGAINST having real stars
[11:59] Dahlia Trimble: oops it's that time again... bye all :) *waves and tp's off into the sunset
[11:59] Enkidu Linden: bye dahlia
[11:59] Jeff Linden: speaking of which, time for me to run as well
[11:59] Lillie Yifu: this doesn't have a fix for the celstial alpha problem
[11:59] Lillie Yifu: hmm
[11:59] Dzonatas Sol: real stars, well we do have many jack sparrows
[11:59] Latif Khalifa: see you Dahlia, Jeff
[12:00] Lillie Yifu: what there should be is a way to read star maps
[12:00] Latif Khalifa: provided teleport gods let you leave :P
[12:00] Lillie Yifu: so that people can set those
[12:00] Lillie Yifu: also the stars should rotate
[12:00] Enkidu Linden: it would be pretty awesome to be able to load stars as viewed from arbitrary places
[12:00] Lillie Yifu: that's what made me give up until the viewer change settles dwon
[12:00] Tillie Ariantho: Why not a drop-in field for a sky textures, similar to the ground one? So every sim owner could have her own sky. :P
[12:00] Skills Hak: i dont really see the point
[12:00] Lillie Yifu: and there should be more than two celestial bodies
[12:00] Lillie Yifu: and they should not have the alpha problem they have right now
[12:01] Skills Hak: i mean the night sky doesn't really change does it?
[12:01] Skills Hak: in real life
[12:01] Enkidu Linden: sure it does
[12:01] Dzonatas Sol: flat earth syndrome overcomes ability to justify with the vatican that galileo is right about the virtual world being round
[12:01] Skills Hak: noticeable?
[12:01] Lillie Yifu: yes
[12:01] Lillie Yifu: since a day on sl is every four hours
[12:01] Lillie Yifu: the stars would go around once every four hours
[12:02] Tillie Ariantho: Skills: if you know what to look for, it does, but in general it repeatedly displays ther same stuff. :P
[12:02] Enkidu Linden: yeah, the motion would be much more pronounced
[12:02] Lillie Yifu: and don't get me started on the moon locked into the sun thing
[12:02] Lillie Yifu: changint that was a nightmare
[12:02] Lillie Yifu: it is in hundreds of places
[12:02] Dzonatas Sol: there is a moon?
[12:02] Skills Hak: moon and sun could use some improvement yeah
[12:02] Latif Khalifa: lol
[12:02] Skills Hak: but stars i dunno
[12:02] Tillie Ariantho: And the alignment of the planets with the sun all... uh 36.000 years? ,)
[12:02] Enkidu Linden: well, hey everyone. i need to head off too. thank you all for coming!
[12:02] Lillie Yifu: in sl the moon is a reflection of the sun
[12:03] Skills Hak: see you enkidu
[12:03] Latif Khalifa: thanks for your time Enkidy :) have fun!
[12:03] Lillie Yifu: beijos!
[12:03] Dzonatas Sol: thanks being here
[12:03] Aimee Linden: bye!
[12:03] Enkidu Linden: bye all!
[12:03] Xugu Madison: Thanks Enkidu, Jeff!

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