User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-05-21

Transcript

[10:47 SLT] Uni Ninetails: hihi
[10:48 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: Is that a name from the forums, Timo?
[10:48 SLT] Timo Daehlie: i rarely post ;)
[10:48 SLT] Uni Ninetails: i kinda expected todays meet to be full of wailing and screaming and gnashing of teeth
[10:48 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: MM, my miostake then *she says winking
[10:48 SLT] Mosley Sperber: I've seen you post ;P
[10:48 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Did everyone see this: https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/land/blog/2009/05/21/further-clarification-on-bots-and-camping
[10:48 SLT] Mosley Sperber: Yup
[10:49 SLT] Uni Ninetails: looks
[10:49 SLT] Mosley Sperber: Dytska pasted it 8 mins ago ;)
[10:49 SLT] Timo Daehlie: Ola Moos ;)
[10:49 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: i'm done asking my stupid questions, I'm here to listen, and breathe
[10:49 SLT] Driftwood Miles: Hi Everyone :)
[10:49 SLT] Uni Ninetails: hihi
[10:50 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen bows, "Greetings"
[10:50 SLT] Driftwood Miles: :)
[10:50 SLT] Silent Loudwater: no camping bots could be fun for Ragdoll... there is no way thats realistic numbers
[10:50 SLT] Driftwood Miles: I think we should drag the bots back in........my stores sales are down ;)
[10:50 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen sneaks up to Ito, her hand around his waist, "Hello there"
[10:50 SLT] Dytska Vieria: Hi Timo, everyone
[10:51 SLT] Techwolf Lupindo lol "The ACP is here. hehe"
[10:51 SLT] Timo Daehlie: Hiya Dyts ;))
[10:51 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: If bots spend money, go for it!
[10:51 SLT] Driftwood Miles: Hey Dytska
[10:51 SLT] Ito Setsuko: I'm not Ito, I'm Blondin :P
[10:51 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: My bots spend money, lots of it
[10:51 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: Hehe, check him out!
[10:52 SLT] Driftwood Miles: has anyone seen the PG Sex Bed doing the rounds?
[10:52 SLT] Ito Setsuko: I had an hour to kill, so I though.. facemasks
[10:52 SLT] Uni Ninetails: O.O
[10:52 SLT] Mosley Sperber: the... squeaky one? ;P
[10:52 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: You suppose the Lindens avatars look like them? At least THIS one?
[10:52 SLT] Driftwood Miles: yes
[10:52 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: I love the fact that Jack always blogs right before his office hours. It shows he's actually concerned about us complaining that he hasn't done what he said he would do last week
[10:52 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: hey tech
[10:52 SLT] Mosley Sperber: Elan, well it *could* also show that he's only in the office for 2 hrs a week ;P
[10:52 SLT] Techwolf Lupindo smiels
[10:53 SLT] Techwolf Lupindo: Hi Xaria
[10:54 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Ok Mosley, either my idea or yours. Definitely one of those two
[10:54 SLT] Mosley Sperber: But yeah, at least he did finally put up the blog before today's meeting
[10:54 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: I need to find a better way to pay newbies tiny amounts of money for doing all my work for me. In order to replace camping I mean
[10:55 SLT] Alexxa Despres: maybe you can offer them cookies
[10:55 SLT] Alexxa Despres: (en->de) vielleicht können Sie sie Cookies
[10:55 SLT] Alexxa Despres: homeade ones
[10:55 SLT] Alexxa Despres: (en->de) homeade sind
[10:55 SLT] Uni Ninetails: games?
[10:55 SLT] Dytska Vieria: I have a money ball that pays 1$L every 15 minutes.
[10:55 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: No, they have to be achieving something of value. But something they can't screw up
[10:56 SLT] Dytska Vieria: and when people park for hours, I just enable damage and kill them with my custom damage enabled watermellon gun :)
[10:56 SLT] Mosley Sperber: Did you ever find any that stayed for longer than 2-3 weeks, Elan? With your previous "post for me on XSL" etc projects?
[10:57 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Yeah, some oldbie took up the job and does it consistently. So although I only pay tiny amounts of money it doesn't go to a newbie
[10:57 SLT] Mosley Sperber: Just thinking of my own experiences with newbies hired for simple, low-paying jobs, and how long they actually stuck around (or not)
[10:57 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: The one I can't keep people for is paying people to put descriptions on my parcels
[10:58 SLT] Mendelssohn Andel: mic is on
[10:58 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Driftwood, that's 5000 voice minutes right there
[10:58 SLT] Driftwood Miles: oops sorry :)
[10:58 SLT] Driftwood Miles: lol
[10:58 SLT] Techwolf Lupindo smiels
[10:59 SLT] Drongle McMahon: Hello everyone
[10:59 SLT] Uni Ninetails: lol looks like theres a potential group of protesters forming
[10:59 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: hello
[10:59 SLT] Alexxa Despres: hi Drongle ;)
[10:59 SLT] Driftwood Miles: Hi Drongle
[10:59 SLT] Uni Ninetails: hihi
[10:59 SLT] Equinox Pinion: hi drongle
[10:59 SLT] Mosley Sperber: Yeah, I just saw green dots upstairs again ...
[10:59 SLT] Techwolf Lupindo: I'me taking snapshots of the best ones.
[10:59 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: protesters? for what?
[10:59 SLT] Driftwood Miles: against protesting :)
[10:59 SLT] Dytska Vieria: Maybe I will get AR'ed again :)
[10:59 SLT] Uni Ninetails: Hurray!
[11:01 SLT] Prilis Boa: anyone seen a linden?
[11:01 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: hi jack!
[11:01 SLT] Uni Ninetails: Oyoy Jack
[11:01 SLT] Jack Linden: hello everyone
[11:01 SLT] Mosley Sperber: Hi Jack
[11:01 SLT] Prilis Boa: oh theres one
[11:01 SLT] Alexxa Despres: Hi jack ;)
[11:01 SLT] Equinox Pinion: hi jack!
[11:01 SLT] Dytska Vieria: Hi Jack
[11:01 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Yo Jack
[11:01 SLT] Jack Linden waits for the chairs and people to appear
[11:02 SLT] Hia Paine: is this the house that jack build?
[11:02 SLT] Jack Linden: how is everyone this week? you all getting better weather than me I hope
[11:02 SLT] Alexxa Despres: <<gives Jack a Hint.... I am a chair
[11:02 SLT] Jack Linden: hehe Alexxa
[11:02 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: Blondins here too! *she points at Ito
[11:03 SLT] Jack Linden: oh wow, i did step on a cat
[11:03 SLT] Mosley Sperber: I'm used to it, I go to Blondin's meetings ...
[11:03 SLT] Jack Linden: Ha Mosley, great avatar
[11:03 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: Wtch outfer the pussy, right?
[11:03 SLT] Mosley Sperber: Pussy with tits.
[11:03 SLT] Talarus Luan: Don't step on the tits
[11:03 SLT] Jack Linden: Ah yes. Isn't that a pantomime?
[11:04 SLT] Jack Linden: Okay, so.. let sget this kicked off..
[11:04 SLT] Prilis Boa: you might find it funny
[11:04 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Hahah, maybe Mosley will travel to London to find his fortune
[11:04 SLT] Jack Linden: I've posted a clarification to the Bot issue, so be sure to check that out
[11:04 SLT] Jack Linden: https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/land/blog/2009/05/21/further-clarification-on-bots-and-camping
[11:04 SLT] Qie Niangao: looked good to me, Jack.
[11:05 SLT] Techwolf Lupindo: How will new users earn a few Lindens to get started?
[11:05 SLT] Jack Linden: thanks Qie.. any other feedback?
[11:05 SLT] Equinox Pinion: just read it thanks for that...but when will you start with the new policy :)
[11:05 SLT] Talarus Luan: So when does enforcement start on the bots?
[11:05 SLT] Equinox Pinion: there are still tons of bots around
[11:05 SLT] Jack Linden: Techwolf, that's a super question. We actually watch the economy very closely and we'll see if that does become a problem
[11:05 SLT] Mosley Sperber: I'm somewhat convinced that all the bots will soon be "models"
[11:05 SLT] Mosley Sperber: so hopefuly that part will be implemented quickly ...
[11:05 SLT] Jack Linden: If so, we'll definitely be looking at ways to help there
[11:05 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Jack, OK, you started enforcing this policy 3 or 4 weeks ago and yet the worst abuser who has about 123k in traffic and appears top in the search for the contentious "furniture" category still has 2 massive boxes full of bots. What's going on? Have you even spoken to them?
[11:06 SLT] Dennis Lagan: hi Jack, i was happy to see your new post regarding that ALL ways of gaming traffic, not only bots, are now included beeing a violation. but then it would be nice to see some results of the new policy. whenver i look on the map, its still full of bots, everywhere. i ask you once again to get residents involved reporting bot use. I'm sure they are way more effective in tracking then what lindenlab is doing currently
[11:06 SLT] Jack Linden: Elenthius, I can't speak to specific examples but, in some cases it was the lack of clarity over bots vs non-bots but afk
[11:06 SLT] Talarus Luan: O.o
[11:07 SLT] Jack Linden: Now we have cleared that up, it will make it much easier to go forward
[11:07 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: So are they arguing back and you're beating them down as we speak? Seems to be taking longer than I would have expected. These guys don't have afk avatars they have large cubes filled with Casper the friendly ghost clones
[11:07 SLT] Jack Linden: Dennis, I think we'll need to see how it goes now. I agree there are more of you than of us. :) so if it looks as if we really need that support we'll ask for more reporting
[11:08 SLT] Talarus Luan: Again, timeframe, Jack.
[11:08 SLT] Lim Catteneo: so camp master type system is outlawed now too?
[11:08 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: When do we get fancy graphs showing how many bots you eliminated?
[11:08 SLT] Talarus Luan: YOu keep saying "should see some progress next week", but there's not been any noticeable progress.
[11:08 SLT] Dennis Lagan: ok, i will remind you (hopefully i dont have to, but i fear i will need to)
[11:08 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: just ban the accounts used as bots for camping and buying cheap land when available, it is justcausing problems and isnt fair to those that are not as long in SL as those using the bots. specially if you use them basicly to grief on others. people here should think about that for a change instead of complianing about it
[11:08 SLT] Jack Linden: Tal, I think it'll speed up alot now - many people felt that campng chairs were not a part of the policy
[11:09 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: i know it might be harsh what i said, but its true
[11:09 SLT] Ciaran Laval: Land bots are on their way out anyway
[11:09 SLT] Talarus Luan: as Elan said, we're not talking about camping chairs, but boxes in the sky filled with clone avs.
[11:09 SLT] Talarus Luan: Why haven't they been eliminated already
[11:09 SLT] Talarus Luan: ?
[11:09 SLT] Talarus Luan: Low-hanging fruit, and all that
[11:09 SLT] Jack Linden: Xaria, it's tricky to take that approach because we end up in a race of how many we can rmove to how many they can create
[11:10 SLT] Jack Linden: It's better to adopt a sensible and clear policy around gaming. And then enforce against that
[11:10 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: peopel should create real bots for a change that are true prims, that way you know for sure there is a bot and not some person being lazy
[11:10 SLT] Dennis Lagan: you solved it yourself jack, as you said, there are way more of us then you. let us search
[11:10 SLT] Wilma Philbin: But won't you hold the landowners responsible for the bots?
[11:10 SLT] Techwolf Lupindo: I like to know how they get so many alts. I've tried to get a few alts for testing out things. I'me on some of the beta testing groups. I couldn't get more then a couple of them.
[11:10 SLT] Ciaran Laval: You're opening a whole big can of worms there Jack
[11:10 SLT] Wilma Philbin: If you just ban the bots you won't solve the problem
[11:10 SLT] Jack Linden: Incidentally, I saw a bot the other day that was a Cushion, sat in a camping chair. It was pretty impressive
[11:11 SLT] Prilis Boa: fascinating
[11:12 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: i know jack, but it's a fact that bots are already on their way in prim form, i just dont see whe people have to complain about something like this. it is as simple as 1 2 3. the users of the bots (which are avitars) are plainly griefers in a way, besides that plain lazy
[11:12 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Yeah, probably a third of the people who are likely to comment will be pro-camping chair ban but a lot of people won't like it. Won't somebody please think of the newbies!!
[11:12 SLT] Dennis Lagan: so we can now have two gains per chair, one camper, and one cushion
[11:12 SLT] Jack Linden: :)
[11:12 SLT] Dennis Lagan: secondlife improves every day :)
[11:12 SLT] Talarus Luan: So, again, when will the policy start being enforced?
[11:13 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: people should stop using such bots as excuses, its only bad for bussiness and besides that bad for new players
[11:13 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: i guess nobody thought about that side
[11:13 SLT] Jack Linden: Oh we're already talking to quite a few but we'll ramp up on the camping chair farm sites over the next few days
[11:13 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: no new players = no better economy in SL
[11:13 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: simple as that
[11:13 SLT] Talarus Luan: What about the bot skybox farm sites?
[11:13 SLT] Jack Linden: We'll explain the policy, make it clear that what they are doing is not acceptable and take it from there
[11:14 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: I take it this is part of the land team's area?
[11:14 SLT] Talarus Luan: ..and haven't you been talking to them for the last month since the policy went public?
[11:14 SLT] Dennis Lagan: many people don't read the blog, or to status pages, will there be anything on login?
[11:14 SLT] Dennis Lagan: *the
[11:14 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Even most of the users of boxes o' bots want them banned. It should be simple to eliminate the obvious abusers
[11:14 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: (sorry, stupid question)
[11:14 SLT] Jack Linden: Tumbleweed, it's more about the governance side, but yes it's under the umbrella of Land
[11:14 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: I'm Sorry! Jack, i just think further then the basics and personal needs for some people here. SL is a community and people do not play a single player game or a deadmaths game
[11:15 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: And this same land team is going to be helping in the move?
[11:15 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: U-day?
[11:15 SLT] Ciaran Laval: Then it will be lucky chair farms or treasure hunts to inflate traffic
[11:15 SLT] Jack Linden: Tal, we have been talking to those sites that have Bot boxes in the sky, but as i said, it'll ramp up now
[11:15 SLT] Talarus Luan: OK, so are you saying they will be gone tomorrow? Or when?
[11:15 SLT] Dennis Lagan: how does such a conversation looks like about?
[11:15 SLT] Jack Linden: Dennis, good question. we might run a message of the day.
[11:15 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Can you maybe give us an idea of how many people you're speaking to? And maybe how many bots they typically run?
[11:16 SLT] Dennis Lagan: kk
[11:16 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Man if you get a message of the day about traffic bots the adult content guys are gonna go crazy-go-nuts
[11:16 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: *cough cough* Land team working on bots AND the Ursula project, all at once
[11:16 SLT] Jack Linden: Elanthius, what we're finding is that most of them are happy to stop so long as everyone else does too
[11:16 SLT] Jack Linden: So they are watching each other
[11:16 SLT] Talarus Luan: I mean, without a timeline, maybe it is time for the ARs.. as gentle "reminders".
[11:16 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Jack, yeah, that's the impression I get too. Some stopped and then started again when others didn't follow
[11:17 SLT] Jack Linden: Elanthius, I don't have that data but I'll try to have data for next time
[11:17 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: its the stubborn people that only think about themselfs that are the problem mostly
[11:17 SLT] Hia Paine: BOTS?... is that the big question these days? what about the adult ban? and whats adult and whats mature?
[11:17 SLT] Dennis Lagan: -not only impression elanthius, i heared it-
[11:17 SLT] Hia Paine: and WHY?
[11:17 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: Ding!
[11:17 SLT] Timo Daehlie: oh not again ..
[11:17 SLT] Ciaran Laval: We save adult talk for Blondin on Wednesday he had a full sim yesterday
[11:17 SLT] Dytska Vieria: Is there an updated chart on the 16sqm extortion plots?
[11:17 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: Better get that updated post Jack
[11:17 SLT] Jack Linden: Tumbleweed, different staff - one will not impact the other
[11:17 SLT] LoLa Varriale: what about adult bots lol
[11:17 SLT] Prilis Boa: i thought this was about customer service issues?
[11:18 SLT] Talarus Luan: Land
[11:18 SLT] Talarus Luan: issues
[11:18 SLT] Qie Niangao: The move to Ursula is fair game for this meeting, I think, but definitions and other Adult Content stuff... seems a distraction.
[11:18 SLT] Driftwood Miles: Jack the NEW prefab regions...when are you expecting them to go live on the land store?
[11:18 SLT] Dennis Lagan: land and concierge
[11:18 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Yeah OK adult stuff. I have questions about that. I'm trying to get a firm sense of how many sims you will auction. Like, let's say you give away 50 sims as planned and auction 50 sims and they all go for L$100/sqm. Will you keep auctioning until prices go down? Or stop after 300 sims? You said before you'd auction as many as necessary I think. But how will you decide how many is necessary?
[11:18 SLT] Prilis Boa: Topics: Any issues relating to Customer Relations/Support
[11:18 SLT] Jack Linden: Hia, I'm going to try to run a few townhalls next week to talk specifically about the adult migration for those that want to discuss that more
[11:18 SLT] Hia Paine: great, ty
[11:18 SLT] Jack Linden: Ideally i'd like to run three, staggered through the day so as many timezones as possible can make it
[11:18 SLT] Prilis Boa: can you tell me why Linden labs have accused me of profanity and banned me from adding items on xstreet?
[11:19 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: wrong Linden, Prills
[11:19 SLT] Prilis Boa: and refused to answer all my questions on the issue
[11:19 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: he isnt the one that is talking about xstreet :p
[11:19 SLT] Prilis Boa: I am a customer
[11:19 SLT] Jack Linden: Elanthius, I really don't want us to oversupply. So we'll have to see how it goes, but at the same time for those that do want to move we need to give them the option
[11:19 SLT] Prilis Boa: this is customer service
[11:19 SLT] Equinox Pinion: wrong place for htat prilis
[11:19 SLT] Prilis Boa: nacy and dakota refuse to answer me
[11:19 SLT] Prilis Boa: i want some customer service
[11:20 SLT] Prilis Boa: Topics: Any issues relating to Customer Relations/Support
[11:20 SLT] Jack Linden: Prills, sadly I don't have any way to address specific support issues. But please do contact support directly so they can explain
[11:20 SLT] Song Desideri: But you're still looking at only swapping land for business purposes? Not homes?
[11:20 SLT] Prilis Boa: why have i been accused of profanity?
[11:20 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: The thing is Jack if you put a parcel up for auction it WILL sell. Everything sells for /some/ price. So how will you know when it's time to stop. I guess just think about it. Because the auction prices of this stuff really worries me
[11:20 SLT] Prilis Boa: i have contacted them#
[11:21 SLT] Equinox Pinion: when full sims o for 780 usd like lately :)
[11:21 SLT] Jack Linden: Elanthius, I would expect that when auctions get close to the normal average price we might be reaching the end of the supply, but again - hard to say until we see it unfold
[11:21 SLT] Qie Niangao: so... US$750 opening bid is too low, Elan?
[11:21 SLT] Driftwood Miles: Jack when do you think the New Prefab sims will hit the land store and any idea on cost ?
[11:21 SLT] Jack Linden: I agree though that we have to watch it carefully
[11:22 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: think about same prices as they ask currently
[11:22 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Jack,that'sclose to what I'm looking for. If you made that a specific policy. To keep releasing land until it was auction for 5/sqm that would really prevent people from trying to do silly things with the land market
[11:22 SLT] Jack Linden: Hey Driftwood.. I don't have an update on that sadly. Keep watching the old blog though!
[11:22 SLT] Equinox Pinion: why should they cost more?
[11:22 SLT] Song Desideri: That's actually a good point too - have you thought into the future and how to decide when its time to expand Ursula further? Sort of putting the cart before the horse I know
[11:22 SLT] Driftwood Miles: thanks Jack :)
[11:22 SLT] Jack Linden: Elanthius, what specifically concerns you.. oversupply
[11:22 SLT] Jack Linden: ?
[11:22 SLT] Dennis Lagan: oh, yes, i actually don't understand how full mainland sims went away for 750 dollar at the auction, while you said there was a demand for them... but 750 dollar for a mainland region is VERY low. Any ideas how that could happen Jack.?
[11:22 SLT] Qie Niangao: right, that's my point: if they just set a rational L$/sqm opening bid, the volume will self-regulate (barring further shocks to demand)
[11:23 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Both ways are bad, undersupply will drive prices to infinity and beyond and oversupply will negatively affect the rest of the mainland and estate value. It's a minefield
[11:23 SLT] Jack Linden: Song.. I would hope that the adult space grows fairly organically rather than in big sprints because it can unsettle the market otherwise
[11:23 SLT] Ciaran Laval: 750 is a good price, there was a stage perviously where full sims didn't attract any bids
[11:23 SLT] Ciaran Laval: perviously, freudian slip there
[11:24 SLT] Jack Linden: It can grow a fair bit from the area we'll start with, but in terms of our normal continents it's quite small
[11:24 SLT] TorqueDom3 Primeau: I'd like clarification on the land swap to Ursula. I have a full mainland estate that is definitely adult content. will I be offered a full estate on ursula, and what are my options for the old mainland?
[11:25 SLT] Jack Linden: The recent 28 mainland ones that we finally got off our pending queue all got bids and were sold I think
[11:25 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: One went for over $2000
[11:25 SLT] Jack Linden: Though a couple had to go back on due to other issues
[11:25 SLT] Equinox Pinion: yes as it was at the sea
[11:25 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: The rest were $850-$900ish I think
[11:25 SLT] Ciaran Laval: 850-900 is still good value
[11:25 SLT] Jack Linden: Torque, yes you'd be offered equivalent space if you're eligible for a free relocation
[11:26 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Sure, and the market didn't seem to react negatively, it was all fine
[11:26 SLT] Dennis Lagan: its poor, concidering they get way more tier and buy price for private regions
[11:26 SLT] Mosley Sperber: Elanthius, out of interest, did you keep track whether there was a noticeable difference in PG and Mature sims as to average auction prices ..?
[11:26 SLT] Jack Linden: Torque, we may also make an offer for large Mainland owners to migrate to an Island if they wished to go that route (with their content intact)
[11:26 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: I didn't hardly track them at all sadly. The "new" auctioning system sucks terribly. You can't ever see who won the auction or what the price was. It should keep a public history. It's a major problem.
[11:26 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: blinks
[11:26 SLT] Ciaran Laval: Well someone was asking for bids of over two grand for a grandfathered class 5 private sim and that was sold quickly.
[11:27 SLT] TorqueDom3 Primeau: ok Jack, so I'm offered equivalent space on Ursula. What are my options for the old land? does it revery to protected land? can I keep it and pay double tier, or can I sell it privately?
[11:27 SLT] Lim Catteneo: there are no more class 4 sims
[11:27 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: There are lots of class 4 sims
[11:27 SLT] Equinox Pinion: there still are class 4 sims around
[11:28 SLT] Jack Linden: Torque, right now we're looking at giving you the choice of keeping it (but removing the adult content obviously) or selling it or giving it back to us, but only after we've agreed to the relocation
[11:28 SLT] Jack Linden: So you;d need to wait for the process to start before doing anything
[11:28 SLT] Qie Niangao: (Torque: open mic)
[11:28 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: So you arent sure yet? When will you be? When will this be announced, and where?
[11:28 SLT] Jack Linden: Yeah, open mic.. i Hear typing
[11:29 SLT] Ciaran Laval: Keep the full sim, take the new sim on Ursula, sell the old sim for 700 bucks and you're quids in
[11:29 SLT] Ito Setsuko: Jack, I assume the third option is just not to publicly advertise it, also, rather than removing the content?
[11:29 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: It's been nearly TEN weeks, Jack
[11:30 SLT] TorqueDom3 Primeau: understood. and how to you intend to stop people from bying up hundreds of useless 512k plots of mainland, dropping a sex bed on it and advertising it as a sex club, and then requesting to combine all that worthless land into a full sim on ursula for free?
[11:30 SLT] Jack Linden: Ito, it depends I think. we'll be talking more soon about definitions etc, but commercialised adult content or services are the key ones that need to move
[11:30 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Yeah, you should make the fact you get to keep both parcels more public. It would really turn all the adult content people around to loving the idea. Who doesn't want $700 of free money
[11:30 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Their crappy businesses aren't making that much, that's for sure
[11:31 SLT] Jack Linden: As I think we said at a previous office hours tumbleweed, we took the choice to talk early which of course means that no everything is nailed down. That way we got to include your feedback as we worked through the details.
[11:31 SLT] Lim Catteneo: Elanthius, I'm glad you're such a repository of checked and true facts :P
[11:31 SLT] Uni Ninetails: i would think there will be a limit youll have to have owned the land for x months for an adult transfer
[11:31 SLT] Jack Linden: I think most people prefer that but it does mean a delay in thngs being finalised.
[11:31 SLT] Qie Niangao: Heh, Elan: what do you think pays for land? It's a pr0n economy. :p
[11:31 SLT] Dennis Lagan: jack, how is the new economic data page moving on? as M linden announced it would be ready by the end of April, which was correct by you begiing may as undetermined, now almost a month later its still not up...
[11:31 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Lim, I looked it up in my gut. And my gut told me it was true.
[11:31 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: Mm, well, I'm now tied of waiting..I do understand that but it's been ten weeks of hell, thank you
[11:31 SLT] Dennis Lagan: *beginning
[11:32 SLT] Hia Paine: there is alot of love in this room.
[11:32 SLT] Prilis Boa: havent they banned love yet?
[11:32 SLT] TorqueDom3 Primeau: please understand. I have no issue with flagging my business as adult content and turning on adult verification or payment on file. I'm not against the concept. I'm just fearful you are understimating the logistics of implimentation, and the exploitation that will occur.
[11:32 SLT] Jack Linden: Dennis, we're definitely behind in getting that done. I wish i had a better update but i don't right now. I will go dig into it more though
[11:33 SLT] Dennis Lagan: love for our co-residents, not for lindenlab i think lol
[11:33 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: OH, absolutely Torque, it is already happening
[11:33 SLT] Hia Paine: did i say love? i meant bs
[11:33 SLT] Dennis Lagan: thanx for answering
[11:33 SLT] Jack Linden: Torque, it's definitely a risk. But you know we have a big support group now and we're planning around contingency in case things go sideways. If we have to extend out the timing, we can do that too
[11:35 SLT] Jack Linden: As for exploitation, it's possible but we can see what was historically on a region and people probably realise that
[11:35 SLT] Jack Linden: But we'll see!
[11:35 SLT] Song Desideri: Dumb question on teirs - I've been assuming that it will be 9 days from X point and thus be different for each individual - is this the case or are you allowing double teirs for the mass until most everyone gets their acts together?
[11:35 SLT] TorqueDom3 Primeau: I have felt since I joined Sl in 2006 that "free accounts" should have very limited access to only the orientation parts of SL, and to gain full access, you must adult verify or put pmt info on file, not unlike the 2 week free trial WoW gives you before you have to pay the monthly fee. if that had happened, none of this would be an issue now
[11:35 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: Yes, and sadly you have underestimated the store affected, in need of a swap, due to their inability to advertize
[11:36 SLT] Equinox Pinion: with that new datacenter agreement you just signed and the new server types coming up...will there be class 6 land?
[11:36 SLT] Jack Linden: Song, it'll depend on each case. We don't want to trip people into double tiers though.. so the swap will be cooridnated through the support tickets
[11:36 SLT] Jack Linden: We can fix the tier issue at our end
[11:36 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Equinox: They're gonna use nehalem machines for the next servers. Probably jam more sims per CPU as well
[11:36 SLT] Lim Catteneo: Equinox, they don't plan to make sim runs faster, thay plan to jam more sims maximizing $$$
[11:36 SLT] Song Desideri: Ahh cool thanks
[11:36 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Equinox, there was a blog that mentioned it in passing a few days ago
[11:37 SLT] Equinox Pinion: thats what i wanted to hear from jack as i fear that too
[11:37 SLT] Lim Catteneo: the blog mentioned that "green" server == more sims per server
[11:37 SLT] Uni Ninetails: sigh the mem bus is already cacking itself now....
[11:37 SLT] Dennis Lagan: the post clearly said a "new class of sims" tough, which was or bad choice of words, or really what it should be.
[11:37 SLT] Jack Linden: Equinox, not as such. I expect we may move away from the class model a little. It's something we're discussing because almost everyone is not on class 5
[11:38 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: !!!! Almost everyone is not on class 5?!
[11:38 SLT] Equinox Pinion: ok..that would be a good decision for sure
[11:38 SLT] Uni Ninetails: ?!!!
[11:38 SLT] Jack Linden: oops spello
[11:38 SLT] Jack Linden: *now*
[11:38 SLT] Dennis Lagan: lol
[11:38 SLT] Talarus Luan: I thnk he meant "now on"
[11:38 SLT] Ciaran Laval: typo
[11:38 SLT] Driftwood Miles: ??
[11:38 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: LOL
[11:38 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: So the way it is, the english speaking public get screwed first, because its english words banned. The non english speakers get screwed last and hardest, because they wont know about it until late, and Ursula is full
[11:38 SLT] Jack Linden: man that was a pretty good spello too
[11:38 SLT] Uni Ninetails: XD
[11:38 SLT] Lim Catteneo: why reduce lag and make sims faster if you can jam more sims per server increasing your profit? :P
[11:38 SLT] Uni Ninetails: Go grab a can of Special Brew for that one Jack
[11:38 SLT] Ciaran Laval: Not as good as MJ's typo about the prefab sims being reviled
[11:39 SLT] Jack Linden: Lim, I didn't say there wouldn't be new hardware, we buy new hardware all the time. I'm just saying that the way we think about it in terms of classes may change
[11:39 SLT] Driftwood Miles: methinks that these are defining days for SL
[11:39 SLT] Jack Linden: Ciaran, MJ said that?
[11:39 SLT] Dennis Lagan: it would be nice if all sims were updated over time (if also their tier would be updated regarding - lower or higher) instead of this "pay to get a higher class thing". my provider upgrades my connection specifications as well, without making me pay more and more.
[11:39 SLT] Ciaran Laval: He meant to say revealed Jack ;)
[11:39 SLT] Jack Linden: Uni, special brew? really?
[11:40 SLT] Jack Linden: Ha that's classic Ciaran
[11:40 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Jack, someone once mentioned that there might be sims with more prims, like 30,000 prims, or higher performance or some sort of different type of sims from what we have now. Is there any progress on that?
[11:40 SLT] Prilis Boa: yeah, blue mars
[11:40 SLT] Uni Ninetails: :D Or Tennants Extra somthing to clear the dust out
[11:41 SLT] Jack Linden: Dennis, yeah.. The class model ties our hands and yours. If we had a minimum level that everyone knew was the least they would get it would give usmore ability to manage things and make your land purchases 'age' less
[11:41 SLT] Dennis Lagan: they didn't mention prim counts, but they talked about light full sims, and a super full sim or something
[11:41 SLT] Ciaran Laval: Ok so if you move away from the class system would that mean free upgrades to better hardware during the course of our tenancy? I know mainland already does that but private estates don't appear to
[11:41] BIO - STORM core: BIO - STORM CORE ready.
[11:42 SLT] Jack Linden: Elanthius, not as yet. It would be nice though wouldn't it. Ideas around a 'mega region' and what that might mean have gone around many times - but no updates there
[11:42 SLT] Talarus Luan: Jack, question from someone else about a Gov Linden land sale (quoting here):
[11:42 SLT] Talarus Luan: From today in the "small No. of mainland regions" Raff states "May 2009 "we are selling Sims" (a true story) a customer called Linden asked to buy Gov Linden Ocean Sim response "NO that sim is Linden Ocean it will remain in the Linden Inventory it is to better enhance the SL experience for boating, sunsets etc... so the customer bought the two parcels adjoining the Gov Linden PROTECTED Ocean sim and paid premium dollars because these parcels are LINDEN OCEAN FRONT PROTECTED.
guess what? today the Ocean SOLD to a big Land developer he immediately raised the land cut it in 4096m Estate lots"
[11:42 SLT] Equinox Pinion: questionsi s...who would pay for that *g*
[11:43 SLT] Reznik Enzo: wow so many ppl where am i
[11:43 SLT] Jack Linden: Ciaran, yeah it would mean that as the grid itself upgrades over time you'd no longer be pinned to the lower spec
[11:43 SLT] Driftwood Miles: Jack if Open Space sims had to be changed because of cost issues (the homestead saga) how can having Grandfathered Class 5 sims be justified ?
[11:43 SLT] Akis Ikarus: Hi there:D
[11:43 SLT] Hia Paine: will LL buy back the sim i bought if i dont accept their new policy?
[11:43 SLT] Akis Ikarus: Hey jack we are all here for one reason i think
[11:43 SLT] Ciaran Laval: That sounds fair to me Jack
[11:44 SLT] Jack Linden: Tal, I haven't heard about that so I can't comment.
[11:44 SLT] Jack Linden: If you know more, drop me a direct IM
[11:44 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Jack, what can we do to prevent you from raising the price on Homestead sims? I was thinking maybe a protest would do the trick.
[11:44 SLT] Talarus Luan: Was posted in the comments of your "auctioning a few sims" blog post
[11:45 SLT] Reznik Enzo: is this a protest?
[11:45 SLT] Jack Linden: guys, I know you want to ask things but if you drop notecards to me and too many direct IMs it's really tough to keep the chat going
[11:45 SLT] Jack Linden: so please drop notecards after the meeting
[11:45 SLT] Jack Linden: I'm up to about 30 IM tabs now hehe
[11:45 SLT] Akis Ikarus: oki..i hope you will give little time to reed them
[11:45 SLT] Silent Loudwater: is there an update on microparcels?
[11:46 SLT] Prilis Boa: why does the website say you answer customer service questions here when you ignore them?
[11:46 SLT] Ciaran Laval: Tier raising protests are so 2008
[11:46 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Prilis, the website totally says the opposite of that
[11:46 SLT] Reznik Enzo: emm ok then Lol...! peace out ppl
[11:46 SLT] Jack Linden: Silent, I don't have the most recent chart here but the curve is stil heading down. it looks as though we'll be down below 10k 16m parcels for sale very soon
[11:46 SLT] Prilis Boa: Topics: Any issues relating to Customer Relations/Support
[11:46 SLT] Equinox Pinion: when will people know if they got accepted for the land expo
[11:46 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: What's the first derivative? Positive or negative? Is the decrease slowing or increasing?
[11:47 SLT] Dennis Lagan: the european union should take a closer look to your pricing policy. they are more effective in anti-trust and huge fines then the USA.
[11:47 SLT] Talarus Luan: post the rest... ".. or land IN GENERAL"
[11:47 SLT] Prilis Boa: just like the sign on your office says you are out of town....
[11:47 SLT] Prilis Boa: yes cs OR land
[11:47 SLT] Driftwood Miles: MJ Posted that he was on it Equinox :)
[11:47 SLT] Talarus Luan: Right, IN GENERAL
[11:47 SLT] Jack Linden: Prills, we discuss the bigger issues affecting support and land but as it's an open forum we can't deal with individual support cases
[11:47 SLT] Uni Ninetails: need to remove that OR jack
[11:47 SLT] Driftwood Miles: whatever that means :)
[11:47 SLT] Talarus Luan: IE, he doesn't naswer specific support questions
[11:47 SLT] Talarus Luan: *answer
[11:47 SLT] Prilis Boa: need to answer peoples questions
[11:47 SLT] Jack Linden: Sorry Prills. Do contact support though, they can help i'm sure
[11:47 SLT] Equinox Pinion: ohh welll lol
[11:47 SLT] Prilis Boa: i HAVE THEY DONT!
[11:47 SLT] Driftwood Miles: LOL
[11:47 SLT] Prilis Boa: thats why i am here
[11:48 SLT] Jack Linden: Equinox, MJ is coordinating that but hopefully soon. We're really excited about the expo
[11:48 SLT] Driftwood Miles: Are the Homestead price Hikes confirmed?
[11:48 SLT] Prilis Boa: need to remove the or!
[11:48 SLT] Jack Linden: Elanthius, it was speeding up last time i checked
[11:48 SLT] Equinox Pinion: i think it is a good idea for sure..for once :)
[11:48 SLT] Prilis Boa: this is a joke
[11:48 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Sweet. Gotta say I personally have seen a lot of results from the ad cutting thing. Been picking up dozens of abandoned parcels lately
[11:48 SLT] Dytska Vieria: Jack, is there an update for microparcels?
[11:49 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Dytska: [11:46] Jack Linden: Silent, I don't have the most recent chart here but the curve is stil heading down. it looks as though we'll be down below 10k 16m parcels for sale very soon
[11:49 SLT] Talarus Luan: Any luck on the remaining recalcitrant ones?
[11:49 SLT] Qie Niangao: We should plan a party for when Austin bites the dust.
[11:49 SLT] Drongle McMahon: Primlands?
[11:49 SLT] Talarus Luan: Yup
[11:49 SLT] Jack Linden: Dytska, we just covered those... still progressing well
[11:49 SLT] Talarus Luan: Gold Coins / Prim Plus
[11:50 SLT] Ciaran Laval: I am finally seeing progress on the ad cutting, most of the ones near me seem to have got into the spirit of the changes at last
[11:50 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Hahah, I spoke to Ancient Shriner he implied he's going to sue you guys over it
[11:50 SLT] Ciaran Laval: With the exception og Gold Coins
[11:50 SLT] Talarus Luan: Woot
[11:50 SLT] Qie Niangao: yay, Ancient! hope he's got deeper pockets than his little microparcel micro-empire suggests. else he couldn't pay to commute to small claims court.
[11:50 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Haha, he specifically said "I'm not worried about LL they are worried about me"
[11:51 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Well, he has a lot of secret influence. He's practically the definition of FIC
[11:51 SLT] Talarus Luan: Ooooo..
[11:51 SLT] Dytska Vieria: Evil Diaper Bag
[11:51 SLT] Talarus Luan: No, that was GnuSense. :P
[11:51 SLT] Qie Niangao: oh right, he's still on that secret super developer cabal committee cartel thing.
[11:51 SLT] Jack Linden: Elanthius, do you really think there is an FIC?
[11:51 SLT] Talarus Luan: Sure, Jack. There ALWAYS is a AFIC
[11:51 SLT] Jack Linden passes secret note to Elanthius
[11:52 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: No but there are people who have close contacts with Linden Lab employees and get good information early or manage to exert their influence over the way things go
[11:52 SLT] Talarus Luan: ..which is more or less what a FIC is
[11:52 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: How does wasshername on Massively always get the scoop on every single thing? She's FICcy
[11:52 SLT] Talarus Luan: Same thing happens in MMOGs.. "RL Developer Buddy"
[11:52 SLT] Equinox Pinion: thinks needs to go out with jack lol
[11:52 SLT] Jack Linden: That's call PR Elanthius.. we work with a lot of the press and bloggers
[11:53 SLT] Ciaran Laval: Hey come on, it's Jack's job to keep the conspiracy hidden, otherwise he'll be wearing concrete boots
[11:53 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Sure, if you like, you can call it PR.
[11:53 SLT] Jack Linden: haha thanks Equinox!
[11:53 SLT] Equinox Pinion: :)
[11:53 SLT] Talarus Luan: So, Jack, the remaining recalcitrant extortion microparcel owners.. any idea when they will be cleaned up?
[11:54 SLT] Talarus Luan: Or is this as good as we can expect it to get?
[11:54 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: There must be some point where you just declare, "No, wrong. You're banned". How far away is that?
[11:54 SLT] Jack Linden: Tal, not definitively. But we're talking to all of them, and we still expect it to improve lots yet
[11:54 SLT] Hia Paine: will LL buy back the sim i bought if i dont accept their new policy?
[11:54 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Hia, I'll buy it
[11:54 SLT] Prilis Boa: you cant ask questions jack doesnt like hia
[11:55 SLT] Talarus Luan: ..and if they say "no"? or "I'm working on it" forever?
[11:55 SLT] Hia Paine: yay
[11:55 SLT] Jack Linden: Hia, we wouldn't buy back but if you need to talk to us about options then we can do that.
[11:55 SLT] Prilis Boa: you are censored, deal with it
[11:55 SLT] Hia Paine: options.. ok, ill get back next week
[11:56 SLT] Jack Linden: Elanthius, I don't think it would come to that. It's far better that we work with people to do this in a sensible way, it helps us too because then the land comes back to us in the right ways
[11:56 SLT] Prilis Boa: i will wait for you to change the wording of your website to suit your purposes like everything else jack
[11:56 SLT] Talarus Luan: Yeah, but, if they basically string you along indefinitely, what's the resolution going to be?
[11:56 SLT] Prilis Boa: thanks for nothing
[11:56 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Well, if you say right now you're not going to ban anyone then they know they don't have to do anything you ask
[11:57 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: You've turned yourself into the Mall Cop
[11:57 SLT] Akis Ikarus: true..
[11:57 SLT] Hia Paine: im sorry, i have to get back to my farm and feed my ass, see you later plp!
[11:57 SLT] Talarus Luan: I know Primlands isn't going to stop until he's banned.
[11:57 SLT] Equinox Pinion: take care hia!
[11:57 SLT] Hia Paine: ppl*
[11:58 SLT] Jack Linden: There is a lot of daylight between working on a solution with them, and banning someone. In the large majority of cases it has come down to good dialigue and understanding whatthey need from us to be able to make drastic changes
[11:58 SLT] Uni Ninetails: bai!
[11:58 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: I suppose it's probably better but this is the reason why it takes so bloody long
[11:58 SLT] Akis Ikarus: they already knows that you will not ban them for this and they still doing this
[11:58 SLT] Qie Niangao thinks what Austin "needs from us" is a swift kick in the nuts.
[11:58 SLT] Talarus Luan: Well, in a month from now, and nothing has changed with them, what next? More talk?
[11:59 SLT] RedMokum Bravin gave you VulcanMyst_001.
[11:59 SLT] Talarus Luan: It sounds like you are just going to let them swing in the breeze forever.
[11:59 SLT] RedMokum Bravin gave you VulcanMyst_003.
[11:59 SLT] Dytska Vieria: really, how much time is enough time?
[11:59 SLT] Drongle McMahon: What do they need?
[11:59 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: No wait, not Mall Cop, you're the UN
[11:59 SLT] Drongle McMahon: They only want money ... are you giving them our money?
[12:00 SLT] RedMokum Bravin gave you VulcanMyst_004.
[12:00 SLT] Jack Linden: Bear in mind Akis that I'm talking about the holding of very large numbers of 16m parcels and operating that kind of business, which is why we are working with them to move away from that business model. But if it were an issue of land cutting itself, that would become a governance issue
[12:00 SLT] Jack Linden: And we certainly could suspend someone for repeated cutting
[12:00 SLT] Qie Niangao: oh please: it's only a few sims, all told.
[12:00 SLT] Dytska Vieria: What is a very large number?
[12:00 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Even a thousand parcels is just a quarter sim. hardly anything
[12:00 SLT] Akis Ikarus: yes...my problem jack is about 3 sims with full sq.m
[12:00 SLT] Jack Linden: SOme of them have had thousands of parcels but it varies.
[12:01 SLT] Talarus Luan: So, basically, as long as they don't cut any new ones, they can leave all their old ones out in perpetuity?
[12:01 SLT] Akis Ikarus: 200 bots at 3 sims
[12:01 SLT] Jack Linden: Okay guys, my hour is up. I have to stalk to the next meeting
[12:01 SLT] Techwolf Lupindo: I think they are starting with the largest numbers and slowly working there way down...
[12:01 SLT] Ciaran Laval: Cheers Jack
[12:01 SLT] Jack Linden: Exactly Techwolf
[12:01 SLT] Talarus Luan: Primlands is one of the largest
[12:01 SLT] Uni Ninetails: ok Jack thankies
[12:01 SLT] Qie Niangao: thanks Jack
[12:01 SLT] Jack Linden: thank you for coming along, always a pleasure!
[12:01 SLT] Equinox Pinion: take care jack!
[12:01 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Yeah good stuff Jack, thanks for the answers
[12:01 SLT] Mosley Sperber: Thanks Jack!
[12:01 SLT] Akis Ikarus: bb..and i hope you will help stop this
[12:01 SLT] Alexxa Despres: Bye ;))
[12:01 SLT] Jack Linden waves
[12:02 SLT] Akis Ikarus: i have one idea
[12:02 SLT] Akis Ikarus: to get some bots here
[12:02 SLT] Akis Ikarus: loll
[12:02 SLT] Akis Ikarus: bb people
[12:02 SLT] Dytska Vieria: 10,000 16sqm's is only about 2.5 sims, right?
[12:02 SLT] Talarus Luan: Eh well.. it's like trying to catch eels with oven mits.
[12:02 SLT] Drongle McMahon: Hmm. When will Jack accept that some people are just incorrigible?
[12:03 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: He's just plain too nice. These people are playing him for a sucker
[12:03 SLT] Akis Ikarus: see on the map---->greece digital dilos island west attica
[12:03 SLT] Akis Ikarus: 150 bots
[12:03 SLT] Talarus Luan: Is there a time frame for that "hot place" to get icebergs?
[12:03 SLT] Drongle McMahon: Depressing
[12:03 SLT] Qie Niangao: right, well, you can see how much tier is contributed to their groups, if you look at Advanced / View Admin Options. They're not that big. Austin has several groups... I think hes' the largest now, in sum.
[12:04 SLT] Talarus Luan: Yep
[12:04 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Doesn't landmachine tell you the size of the groups?
[12:04 SLT] RedMokum Bravin gave you Gira Pipe Dome (Mini).
[12:04 SLT] Timo Daehlie: yeps
[12:04 SLT] Dytska Vieria: Oh well, see ya guys, I have some custom work to do...
[12:05 SLT] Qie Niangao: well, there can be a difference between land owned, and tier paid.
[12:05 SLT] Talarus Luan: Eh well.. all we can do is keep the pressure on. Eventually, it will break them. Eventually. About the same time when the Sun goes nova
[12:05 SLT] Uni Ninetails: sigh
[12:05 SLT] Talarus Luan: Same with bots.
[12:05 SLT] Uni Ninetails: is somthing happening friday?
[12:06 SLT] Talarus Luan: With?

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User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-05-21

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