User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-02-19

Topic & Summary

User Experience Interest Group Discussion for February 19, 2009.

Topic: Collapsible User Iterface Elements

No summary is yet available for this meeting.

Transcript

[15:10]	Jacek Antonelli:	Okay, let's start
[15:10]	Jacek Antonelli:	This week's topic is collapsible UI elements -- stuff like docks and drawers that call be collapsed / shrunk to the side of the screen when they're not needed
[15:10]	Garn Conover:	McCabe it might be riddled but they still want to release it within next few weeks lol
[15:10]	Charlette Proto:	yep I've seen the release notes and hate to add one more, just hoping it may be a sideeffect of one of the others
[15:11]	Jacek Antonelli:	Where could this idea of collapsible UI be used in the SL viewer? Any thoughts?
[15:11]	CodeWarrior Carling:	map and mini map
[15:11]	CodeWarrior Carling:	map collapses to mini map
[15:12]	Jacek Antonelli:	Talk us through what that would be like?
[15:12]	Charlette Proto:	I've heard that and the fact that supposedly only 5% use voice so they will go ahead anyway
[15:12]	CodeWarrior Carling:	well I would imagine the mini map would just have a small/thin bar on it with an expand icon.. greater than symbol or something like that
[15:12]	CodeWarrior Carling:	and when you 'expand' the mini map. it opens up something much like the current map
[15:13]	Charlette Proto:	OK but did you look at our recent map discussion Code?
[15:13]	CodeWarrior Carling:	now the map might have the mini map inside it
[15:13]	CodeWarrior Carling:	well no.. I didn't
[15:13]	Jacek Antonelli:	Ah, I see
[15:13]	CodeWarrior Carling:	but this is about collapsing
[15:13]	CodeWarrior Carling:	you asked where collapsing could be used
[15:13]	Charlette Proto:	that is a bit like what I thought but aren't the maps separate beasts
[15:13]	Jacek Antonelli:	Well, let's set aside technical issues for this discussion
[15:13]	CodeWarrior Carling:	I'm not cxonsidering what they currently 'are'.. just thwat they could or should or might be
[15:14]	McCabe Maxsted:	exactly :)
[15:14]	Jacek Antonelli:	Right
[15:14]	CodeWarrior Carling:	from a users viewpoint.. all 'map stuff' should be accessed through the 'map interface'.. currently there are two such interfaces
[15:15]	Jacek Antonelli:	So, there'd be a map window that has a mini mode and a full mode, and you could switch between them whenever you wanted. Good stuff
[15:15]	Garn Conover:	good idea
[15:15]	CodeWarrior Carling:	and that would get rid of a slot in the toolbar
[15:15]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yep!
[15:16]	McCabe Maxsted:	originally, way back in beta, there was just the minimap... with a button for map on it; then the map came; now, we come full circle :)
[15:16]	Charlette Proto:	we have talked about the generation of map in context of viewer code when we had an informal discuaaion on the possibilities of merging a radar into the minimap or the active speakers or both
[15:16]	CodeWarrior Carling:	it could be eased into the world as one of those toolbar buyttoins with an arrow.. it could say MAP and the arrow could access the mini map.. but both entries would just open the new uni-map in a certain mode
[15:17]	Charlette Proto:	there were some valueable contributions on performance etc related issues behind maps being separate (main is super slow)
[15:17]	Sierus Sicling:	i'm not sure merging them as such is such a great idea, as they both have very different functions
[15:17]	CodeWarrior Carling:	the shortcut keys if they exist could remain the way they are and just switch mode
[15:17]	CodeWarrior Carling:	so does my inventory
[15:17]	McCabe Maxsted:	how so, sierus?
[15:17]	CodeWarrior Carling:	so does my appearance
[15:18]	Sierus Sicling:	i use the minimap primerily to find where people are and think of it more as a glorified scanner
[15:18]	CodeWarrior Carling:	the big map has a scanner in it too.. but it works differently
[15:18]	CodeWarrior Carling:	all maps should work the same no matter where I access them from
[15:18]	CodeWarrior Carling:	the green dots should be in the right spots etc.
[15:18]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	I use SHIFT CTRL ALT 9 to see where everyone is
[15:19]	Garn Conover:	be nice if it worked more like a scanner but thats a diff topic hehe
[15:19]	Charlette Proto:	that is perhaps in terms of the UI 'button' but we heard why the drawing code is different
[15:19]	CodeWarrior Carling:	there's no reason though the 'unimap' couldn't have more than two modes.. I see there is already work in the main map to show different overlays
[15:19]	CodeWarrior Carling:	how do I access those overlay features in the mini map? or can I only do it from the main map? and if so.. why?
[15:19]	Jacek Antonelli:	Hey Geneko and Rick
[15:20]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	hiya
[15:20]	Geneko Nemeth:	Because currently the minimap is a representation of what the viewer sees but the main map is... well, the main map is the main map.
[15:20]	CodeWarrior Carling:	why doesn;t my mini map allow me to turn onn the checkboxes to show telehubs.. infohubs.. land for sale.. etc.
[15:20]	CodeWarrior Carling:	right.. but that is a tech centric answer
[15:21]	Geneko Nemeth:	Came in late because I was playing with my new Wii; hopefully my parents won't notice that I spent moar than $1000 today!
[15:21]	Sierus Sicling:	why would you need that in the minimap though ?
[15:21]	CodeWarrior Carling:	because someone made an implementation decision long ago is not a good answer
[15:21]	Charlette Proto:	sorry Code you seem to think the world just began when you entered into it and aren't prepared to work with what we had previously covered (no need to respond to this)
[15:21]	McCabe Maxsted waves to geneko
[15:21]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	lol Geneko
[15:21]	Jacek Antonelli:	A multi-function map that can be expanded and collapsed is an interesting idea. There would be some technical and functionality issues to address, but it's novel. What other sorts of things could be collapsible?
[15:21]	Geneko Nemeth:	I agree, there's no reason why world map and minimap can't be unified, or at least interagrumented.
[15:21]	McCabe Maxsted:	well you'd still need to find an event in the sim
[15:22]	Sierus Sicling:	but is it realy practical ?
[15:22]	Geneko Nemeth:	Hopefully you already talked about movement controlsand such..
[15:22]	Jacek Antonelli:	We started with the Map. Want to talk about movement controls, Geneko?
[15:22]	CodeWarrior Carling:	well I definitely don't think it just began because I joined.. but I don't know what you covered.. and if I am going over things you've already gone over.. it's because the current topic.. collapsible things.. happens to apply to something you already covered
[15:23]	CodeWarrior Carling:	I suspect anything I suggest could be collapsed will be something you already covered
[15:23]	Geneko Nemeth:	What, I was playing Sonic Heroes this whole time and you only talked about the map.... I think the meeding needs to be more effecient...
[15:23]	Jacek Antonelli:	heh
[15:23]	McCabe Maxsted:	:)
[15:23]	McCabe Maxsted:	okay, collapsing mov/cam controls?
[15:23]	Jacek Antonelli:	This is User Experience Interest Group, not Meeting Optimization Interest Group ;)
[15:23]	Geneko Nemeth:	So as not to make the fly button feel lonely.
[15:23]	Geneko Nemeth:	XD
[15:24]	Charlette Proto:	as i said we discussed the maps in quite a leangth and it would have been more productive if you were aware of the others contributions
[15:24]	Jacek Antonelli:	Okay, combining movement, fly, and camera controls is an interesting idea, but it's not quite what I meant by collapsible
[15:24]	Geneko Nemeth:	I'll check the trancript later.
[15:24]	CodeWarrior Carling:	well you're wuickly doubling the unproductivity of my comments by using up time chiding me for not coming to the meetings before I knew they existed
[15:24]	Jacek Antonelli:	Collapsible is things that can be shrunk down or hidden off-screen, like side drawers
[15:25]	Jacek Antonelli:	Like, maybe the movement controls would slide out from the bottom tool bar in their own little drawer when you pressed the button
[15:25]	Jacek Antonelli:	And then slide back in out of your way when you pressed it again
[15:25]	Jacek Antonelli:	That sort of thing :)
[15:25]	Geneko Nemeth:	Exactly.
[15:26]	Charlette Proto:	I agree Jacek
[15:26]	McCabe Maxsted has always thought it'd be nifty to render movement controls around the avatar so you could say, click a direction and move that way. That's sort of collapsible?
[15:26]	Geneko Nemeth:	But does the current Snapshot and build Windows count?
[15:26]	Jacek Antonelli:	Hrmm, that's sort of a different thing McCabe, but also an interesting idea
[15:27]	CodeWarrior Carling:	aren't they really modal dialogs?
[15:27]	McCabe Maxsted:	hm, not really
[15:28]	McCabe Maxsted:	feels like it though, heh
[15:28]	CodeWarrior Carling:	well either I am in build mode or I am not
[15:28]	Charlette Proto:	additiona (significant) behaviour of the maps to me would be scaling the maps from one to the other, but since this is not realistic, I'd rather treat one as a map and the mini as a radar like tool without actually merging them
[15:28]	CodeWarrior Carling:	either there is a snapshot pending or not
[15:28]	Jacek Antonelli:	The build and snapshot floaters do have collapsible parts -- the "More" and "Less" buttons that expand and shrink the window
[15:28]	Jacek Antonelli:	Or rather show and hide the "extra" bits
[15:28]	Geneko Nemeth:	You could over/under-lay the world map the minimap and then you get a map and a radar.
[15:29]	Geneko Nemeth:	(darken the regions not connected or something...)
[15:29]	Jacek Antonelli:	Aloha Aimee :)
[15:29]	Aimee Trescothick:	lo :)
[15:29]	Charlette Proto:	switching between them from seemingly one UI tool is innapropriate under the circumstances
[15:29]	CodeWarrior Carling:	Hi Aimee!
[15:30]	Garn Conover:	Aimee! :D
[15:30]	Jacek Antonelli:	What other things would be interesting to have collapsible? What if chat history popped out from the bottom or side of the screen, then tucked away?
[15:30]	McCabe Maxsted:	ahoy aimee
[15:30]	Aimee Trescothick wonders if her usual seat is ever going to rez :D
[15:30]	Charlette Proto:	we really aren't so short of UI buttons as to compromise on UI teories merging two different concepts together
[15:30]	Garn Conover:	nice seat
[15:31]	Aimee Trescothick:	:)
[15:31]	Geneko Nemeth:	Err, the menu and toolbar?
[15:31]	Jacek Antonelli:	Collapsible toolbars would be nice. I had those on my UI concept last spring, hehe
[15:32]	Jacek Antonelli:	http://tentacolor.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/ui_main3.jpg
[15:32]	McCabe Maxsted:	how about collapsible volume/voice controls?
[15:32]	Phoenix Stryker's 4.2.1 whispers: Geneko playfully ruffles Garn's wings.
[15:32]	McCabe Maxsted:	collapses when voice is disabled or not enabled on a parcel, perhaps
[15:32]	Garn Conover:	:)
[15:33]	Geneko Nemeth:	Well, I know I seldom use voice controls.
[15:33]	Charlette Proto:	I still think toolbars are the only way to go the bootom of screen buttons are invisible to noobs and a waste of space to advanced users
[15:33]	Sierus Sicling:	colapse music or media controls when there are no parcle media
[15:34]	Charlette Proto:	I use voice all the time and the mixer but the big buttons are a pixel graveyard
[15:34]	Sierus Sicling:	rather than grey them out ?
[15:34]	McCabe Maxsted:	yeah
[15:34]	Jacek Antonelli:	That's an idea
[15:35]	Jacek Antonelli:	What about inventory? Would it make sense to have it expand out from the side of the screen, instead of being a window? Or would that be bad?
[15:35]	CodeWarrior Carling:	not really a 'collapsing' idea.. but the things that clutter my screen are not the music buttons and such
[15:35]	Aimee Trescothick:	i'd like to see things like that dockable
[15:36]	Sierus Sicling:	the inventory needs to be moveble around the screen
[15:36]	Jacek Antonelli:	Good point, Sierus
[15:36]	Aimee Trescothick:	so you could dock the inventory to the side of the window and collapse it, or tear it off and move it around
[15:36]	Charlette Proto:	yep not sure if anyone moves the inventory besides expanding it to reach the menu when it is covered up by dialogs
[15:36]	CodeWarrior Carling:	what about.. having a 'profile' dialog.. where if you have five proifiles open.. they all show as tabs on one profile window.. with the avility to tear them off if you want like you do with the chat windows.. THAT would save me a lot of real estate somewitmes
[15:36]	Sierus Sicling:	but it could stick to the corners or sides ?
[15:36]	Jacek Antonelli:	That's an interesting idea, Aimee
[15:36]	Jacek Antonelli:	Move a window to press against the side of the screen, and it could turn into a dock, or something
[15:37]	Jacek Antonelli:	Or grab it and tug it away to turn it back into a window
[15:37]	McCabe Maxsted:	would be a lot handier than minimizing
[15:37]	Sierus Sicling:	that would be nice
[15:37]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yep
[15:37]	Aimee Trescothick:	simikar to palettes in Photoplop etc
[15:37]	Jacek Antonelli:	Hi Miko
[15:37]	Charlette Proto:	agree
[15:37]	Miko Omegamu waves.
[15:38]	Aimee Trescothick ripples
[15:38]	CodeWarrior Carling:	what do you do about the gap at the bottom above the toolbar where the buttons like stand up and the media controls go?
[15:38]	CodeWarrior Carling:	do things dock below those.. or above them
[15:38]	Jacek Antonelli:	Hrmmmmm
[15:38]	Sierus Sicling:	make the locat chat box expand ?
[15:39]	Aimee Trescothick:	i'd prefer those on another dockable palette themselves
[15:39]	Geneko Nemeth:	lolcat chat?
[15:39]	McCabe Maxsted:	hm, they could become docks so you could dock above the chatbar, only clicking them would act like buttons
[15:39]	Sierus Sicling:	local chat >.<
[15:39]	McCabe Maxsted:	but be draggable
[15:39]	Jacek Antonelli adds LOLcat chat converter to Imprudence wishlist and signs Geneko's name to it
[15:39]	McCabe Maxsted:	:D
[15:39]	Geneko Nemeth:	Nuuuuuuu!
[15:39]	Aimee Trescothick:	lolcat chat is definitely needed
[15:40]	CodeWarrior Carling:	are there any other buttons that show up down there besides 'stand up' anymore?
[15:40]	Jacek Antonelli:	O hai! I can haz dockablz?
[15:40]	McCabe Maxsted:	yeah, there's four
[15:40]	Aimee Trescothick:	or at least a translator from it
[15:40]	Geneko Nemeth:	New IM, Release keys(removed)
[15:40]	Geneko Nemeth:	And/
[15:40]	McCabe Maxsted:	mouselook, new im, and
[15:40]	Geneko Nemeth:	?
[15:40]	McCabe Maxsted tries to remember
[15:40]	Aimee Trescothick:	Release keys is dead already :)
[15:40]	Jacek Antonelli:	Is mouselook down there anymore?
[15:40]	McCabe Maxsted:	yup
[15:40]	Aimee Trescothick:	yeah
[15:40]	Jacek Antonelli:	I don't see it...
[15:40]	CodeWarrior Carling:	stand up is in the pie menu too.. and you couldn't have sat down unles you know how to use the pie menu
[15:40]	Sierus Sicling:	no
[15:40]	Geneko Nemeth:	Yeah, when an attachment wants you to use mouselook
[15:40]	McCabe Maxsted:	you see it when you wear an attachment like a gun
[15:41]	Jacek Antonelli:	Oh
[15:41]	Aimee Trescothick:	Flycam and Stand Up
[15:41]	Jacek Antonelli:	There's also Flycam in Imprudence, and I think a future version of SL
[15:41]	Sierus Sicling:	imprudence?
[15:41]	Garn Conover scoots out to go pick up dad from work
[15:42]	Jacek Antonelli:	Imprudence is the alternative viewer McCabe and I are making. http://imprudenceviewer.org/
[15:42]	Geneko Nemeth:	The Imprudence Project is a Second Life client started by a few UXIG leaders...
[15:42]	McCabe Maxsted:	:)
[15:42]	Sierus Sicling:	ooh :)
[15:42]	McCabe Maxsted:	it's where we steal all your nifty UI ideas and implement them XD
[15:42]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yeah xD
[15:43]	McCabe Maxsted:	set not busy!
[15:43]	McCabe Maxsted:	that's the one!
[15:43]	Jacek Antonelli:	Ahh
[15:43]	Aimee Trescothick:	oh yeah
[15:43]	Geneko Nemeth:	How did I miss that one.
[15:43]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yeah. So there are quite a few of those buttons. You just don't see them all usually
[15:43]	Charlette Proto:	and some of these changes have already kicked in OK but we need to be less subtle and maybe discuss these moves once a month or so
[15:43]	Geneko Nemeth:	or see them at all.
[15:44]	Charlette Proto:	I get a feeling that in a way we ended up with two interfaces to think and comment on
[15:44]	Jacek Antonelli:	Frankly, they would probably be moved somewhere else
[15:44]	Jacek Antonelli:	*be best moved
[15:44]	CodeWarrior Carling:	in the same vein as having multiple profiles in a single profile viewer with tabs.. the same could apply to viewing multiple textures.. one texture view window open with drop down or tabs to show other ones.. and tear off capabilities
[15:45]	Geneko Nemeth:	Well, it's not your fault Linden Research isn't taking your patches. :0
[15:45]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yeah, tabbed browsing for textures, notecards, scripts... everything. :D
[15:45]	Aimee Trescothick:	that's like in CS4 Code
[15:45]	CodeWarrior Carling:	big bang for the buck in those
[15:45]	Geneko Nemeth:	Or GIMP?
[15:45]	CodeWarrior Carling:	much decluttering and much rejoicing
[15:45]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yep
[15:45]	Aimee Trescothick:	haven't used gimp recently, so, dunno :D
[15:46]	CodeWarrior Carling:	I mean the small buttons... might bother some use cases.. but they aren't what clutters up my viewing space
[15:46]	McCabe Maxsted:	what clutters up your viewing space most?
[15:46]	CodeWarrior Carling:	could we have a button that docks other peoples wings?
[15:46]	CodeWarrior Carling:	HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA
[15:46]	Aimee Trescothick:	this damn world view, takes up sooo much space
[15:46]	McCabe Maxsted:	hehe
[15:47]	McCabe Maxsted:	I want to see the pretty dazzle icons!
[15:47]	Aimee Trescothick:	;)
[15:47]	CodeWarrior Carling:	to answer your question McCabe.. multiple instances of things already mentioned.. notecards.. profgiles.. textures
[15:48]	CodeWarrior Carling:	think of when you batch upload.. one texture window per.. and you have to individually close them
[15:48]	CodeWarrior Carling:	give me one texture viewer with a close all button.. hallelujiah
[15:48]	McCabe Maxsted:	kk, just making sure I heard you right. We just had a feature request on our forum for that
[15:49]	McCabe Maxsted:	hehe come to think of it, that's a good solution for batch upload. I was thinking of a checkbox for "disable preview of images"
[15:49]	CodeWarrior Carling:	same applies to all things you can open from inventory
[15:50]	CodeWarrior Carling:	sounds.. gestyuree.. animations.. as long as you can tear off.. it would be win all over
[15:50]	McCabe Maxsted:	tabbed hair!
[15:50]	Jacek Antonelli:	hahaha
[15:50]	Sierus Sicling:	Tabbed viewing of those things ?
[15:50]	CodeWarrior Carling:	yes
[15:50]	Charlette Proto:	don't get too serious about dividing the interface on the basis of what you uplad or not, there are many types of users and for most that is an irrelevant issue
[15:50]	CodeWarrior Carling:	uploading has no bearing on it
[15:50]	Jacek Antonelli wants tabbed hair, even though she doesn't know what that would be like
[15:50]	CodeWarrior Carling:	it';s what you *open*
[15:50]	Geneko Nemeth:	And next you'll have tabbed world view like Concerto Gate...
[15:51]	Aimee Trescothick:	kinda like flat braids I would imagine
[15:51]	CodeWarrior Carling:	multiple profiles.. multiple textures.. multiple animations.. I constantly have several of the same kind of thing open.. and that is what clutters up my view
[15:51]	CodeWarrior Carling:	not the fly button
[15:51]	CodeWarrior Carling:	just imagine that all chat window open a new window
[15:52]	Sierus Sicling:	but fly button isnt that useful in all honesty
[15:52]	Charlette Proto:	once again there is a lot of polemic in previous meetings and our wiki on the INVENTORY eg types of objects and their attributes - no need to start from scratch unless you want to dissregard the opinions of everyone else
[15:52]	McCabe Maxsted nods. I've been wanting tabbed everything for ages, myself
[15:52]	Jacek Antonelli:	Would you want to be able to tabbify different things together, or just things of the same type?
[15:53]	Sierus Sicling:	but tabs in invetory is a good idea, better than folders for stuff like textures and anims
[15:53]	Jacek Antonelli:	Like, make a window and attach a script, a notecard related to it, some snapshots, etc.?
[15:53]	Jacek Antonelli:	In one window
[15:53]	CodeWarrior Carling:	just things of the same type
[15:53]	Jacek Antonelli:	ok
[15:53]	Charlette Proto:	code you seem to be completely unaware of any contributions to this forum and think you can improve the UI yourself, people with this attitude last under a month here
[15:53]	Jacek Antonelli:	Charlette, still your tongue.
[15:53]	McCabe Maxsted:	yeah, too many chances for misteps there; I'd like to have workspaces eventually though
[15:54]	CodeWarrior Carling:	Charlette.. you seem to be very ... jealous.. of someone new wanting to contribute to this group
[15:54]	CodeWarrior Carling:	and very combative
[15:54]	Charlette Proto:	frankly i see it as unproductive to discuss the same issues without taking previous debates onboard
[15:54]	CodeWarrior Carling:	most people would steer the conversation toward the new and not halt it completely to chide someone
[15:54]	Sierus Sicling:	hey hey, not his fault
[15:55]	Charlette Proto:	not jelos but tired of typing the same thing over and over - now for you benefit because apparently you can't read
[15:55]	Charlette Proto:	sorry
[15:55]	Charlette Proto:	this was mainly a waste of time for me, going over covered ground
[15:55]	CodeWarrior Carling:	well I can see why new people last under a month here.. I will be leaving now.. enjoy your group Charlett
[15:55]	Geneko Nemeth:	Wait1
[15:55]	Aimee Trescothick whispers mute time
[15:55]	Geneko Nemeth:	Aww.
[15:55]	Charlette Proto:	hehe
[15:56]	Geneko Nemeth:	And I wondered why we can never have new people... *sigh*
[15:56]	Charlette Proto:	not prepared to work with anything but his own ideas
[15:56]	Jacek Antonelli:	Charlette, you need to seriously adjust your attitude.
[15:56]	Charlette Proto:	don't you agree that we were going over previously covered ground jacek
[15:56]	Sierus Sicling:	right where were we ?
[15:57]	Jacek Antonelli:	The only unproductive thing about this discussion was your interruptions and antagonizing comments.
[15:57]	Aimee Trescothick:	that's no excuse to be rude
[15:57]	Geneko Nemeth:	tabbed inventory which is believed to be talked about a lot.
[15:57]	Geneko Nemeth:	So i want to know if anyone can point from the transcript whhen have they be discussed and what results? http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User_Experience_Interest_Group/Transcripts
[15:58]	Jacek Antonelli:	Even if something has been talked about before, it wasn't with the same people. There can be new ideas and new insights. Even people who were at the earlier discussion can have a new point of view or new experiences that influence their thinking in the meantime.
[15:58]	Charlette Proto:	we have discussed the maps and merging them
[15:58]	McCabe Maxsted:	in other words, STFU
[15:59]	Geneko Nemeth:	But if we have the previous results ready then we can cover the grounds faster. This is not an excuse to be rude, however...
[15:59]	Charlette Proto:	precisely Geneko
[15:59]	Jacek Antonelli:	It's fine if you want to link to the earlier discussion, especially for the ones that have summaries
[16:00]	Sierus Sicling:	if we dont go over them they get forgoten :)
[16:00]	Jacek Antonelli:	But Code was giving us insight into how his own experience could be improved, by reducing the clutter on his screen from multiple windows of the same type
[16:00]	Charlette Proto:	we seem to still lack any way of prioritising the issues raised in order to define some direction for given improvements - just look at the inventory issues
[16:01]	Charlette Proto:	but Code is one person (we have hundreds on the wiki) and to me it seemed he was not interested in what has been discussed before
[16:01]	Jacek Antonelli:	Honestly, Charlette, this isn't an action group. This is a discussion group. The Lindens don't listen to us, so it doesn't matter if we prioritize things or present ideas to them. We're just here to discuss ways it could be better.
[16:02]	Sierus Sicling:	well the more differnt people say them the higher the priority of them :)
[16:02]	Geneko Nemeth:	It matters a bit, now we have a fork of the viewer which we can take action on.
[16:02]	Charlette Proto:	but it would be helpfull if we could cover the issues on the basis of defining where we are going as well as listening to different opinions
[16:02]	Jacek Antonelli:	And personally, I enjoy discussing these things, even if we have covered a similar topic before
[16:03]	Geneko Nemeth:	Well, he didn't know and who reads transcripts when they are so boring?
[16:03]	Charlette Proto:	that is wht I meen - we need a digest of GOOD ideas that emerge
[16:04]	McCabe Maxsted:	personally, I'd rather kick back for an hour and shoot the breeze about UI
[16:04]	Jacek Antonelli:	I take at least an hour every week to write up a summary of the meeting and post the transcripts. Do you want more than that?
[16:04]	McCabe Maxsted:	it gives me a clearer head and helps broaden my perspective
[16:04]	Charlette Proto:	that would be shaped as the ideas for a way forward not just increasing mass of would be good to have this
[16:04]	Charlette Proto:	yeah but that is not how design ever gets to realease
[16:04]	Geneko Nemeth:	Yes but I know I can't afford that. T_T
[16:05]	McCabe Maxsted:	charlette: when you submit more patches to the JIRA than me, you can lecture me on actionability
[16:05]	Sierus Sicling:	ahh i has to go :)
[16:05]	Jacek Antonelli:	Thanks for coming Sierus, it was good to hear your thoughts. Take care :)
[16:05]	McCabe Maxsted hopes you come back :)
[16:05]	Geneko Nemeth:	See ya next week!
[16:05]	Charlette Proto:	then we will never acheive a thing beyond tons of documentation and a few buttons moved from menu to menu
[16:05]	Sierus Sicling:	thanks, stay safe peeps :)
[16:05]	Charlette Proto:	bye Sierus
[16:07]	McCabe Maxsted:	charlette, if you want to do something, do it; nobody is stopping you
[16:07]	McCabe Maxsted:	but don't point any finger at us for not doing anything
[16:08]	Jacek Antonelli:	Alright, let's call it a week. And Charlette, I would recommend you tone down your combatitive attitude in the future Charlette, because it's far more unproductive than talking about old topics again.
[16:09]	Jacek Antonelli:	Take care everyone, see you next week