User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-05
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Topic
User Experience Interest Group Discussion for November 05, 2009.
Topic: Open Topic: Random Ramblings.
Summary
Mostly we just chatted about random stuff the whole time...
Transcript
| [14:59] | Jacek Antonelli: | Ahoy |
| [14:59] | McCabe Maxsted: | ahoy! |
| [15:01] | McCabe Maxsted: | hmm, sim notification isn't working here |
| [15:03] | McCabe Maxsted: | ahoy geneko! |
| [15:04] | Charlette Proto: | hiya |
| [15:05] | Charlette Proto: | chat lag? |
| [15:05] | Jacek Antonelli: | Hi Gen and Charlette |
| [15:05] | Charlette Proto: | hi Gen Jacek McCabe |
| [15:06] | McCabe Maxsted waves | |
| [15:06] | Charlette Proto: | get a feeling snowglobe (test build) lost some FPS this time around |
| [15:06] | Charlette Proto: | maybe just because I only logged |
| [15:07] | Charlette Proto: | did Gen rez for you? |
| [15:08] | Charlette Proto: | I see a cloud |
| [15:08] | McCabe Maxsted: | yup |
| [15:08] | Charlette Proto: | shit maybe it is a bad hair day for me |
| [15:08] | McCabe Maxsted: | is there a list of what's in the latest test build? |
| [15:09] | Charlette Proto: | didn't have a chance to look, but the last fixed that missing media plugin error some peeps had |
| [15:09] | Charlette Proto: | I was getting the error on Vista 32 and not on win7 64 |
| [15:10] | Charlette Proto: | so that surprised me, I update both all the time |
| [15:10] | Charlette Proto: | and really didn't think Vista and Win7 would be any diff this way |
| [15:11] | Charlette Proto: | see what I mean? new versions (same file) on both OSs and different results |
| [15:12] | McCabe Maxsted still needs to do some windows 7 development stuff | |
| [15:13] | Charlette Proto: | it really is 6.1 as you know and I can't believe they passed up on the opportunity to name the OS in a really geek way "6.1" everyone with brain would have loved that |
| [15:14] | Charlette Proto: | everyone loves x.1 versions |
| [15:14] | Charlette Proto: | or should I have said n.1 looks keler |
| [15:14] | Charlette Proto: | .1 kind of has good cred |
| [15:15] | Charlette Proto: | I want Second Life™ 2.1 now |
| [15:15] | McCabe Maxsted: | hehe |
| [15:15] | Jacek Antonelli: | heh |
| [15:15] | Charlette Proto: | Charlette Pronto please |
| [15:15] | Jacek Antonelli: | Anyway. Anybody have anything they want to talk about today? |
| [15:16] | Charlette Proto: | performance on deferred (and UI for deferred like in the ugly Kirstyn's viewer) |
| [15:16] | Charlette Proto: | god that is the ugliest UI I've seen in ages |
| [15:17] | Charlette Proto: | know what I mean; the grey on cyan colour combo, icons with no text |
| [15:17] | Charlette Proto: | rendering deserves thumbs up for sure (I love it for pics), but can't stand the skin |
| [15:18] | McCabe Maxsted hasn't looked at the skin much beyond a few screens | |
| [15:18] | Charlette Proto: | maybe you haven't played with Kirstin's 1.8? |
| [15:18] | McCabe Maxsted: | are there any good skins out there these days? I know croniq created a nifty new one |
| [15:19] | Charlette Proto: | wish I had a capture at hand, it breaks all the rules of design and I don't mean in any good way |
| [15:19] | Jacek Antonelli: | Hey Garn *earskritches* |
| [15:20] | Garn Conover: | Mrewp Mrewp! ^_^ hewwo |
| [15:20] | Geneko Nemeth: | Mweh Mweh! :O |
| [15:20] | Charlette Proto: | kirstin's has XML changes and a weird toolbar made of icons onlt at the top (below main menu) |
| [15:20] | Charlette Proto: | hi Garn |
| [15:20] | Garn Conover: | i still cant use kristens lol |
| [15:20] | McCabe Maxsted: | ahoy goarn |
| [15:20] | McCabe Maxsted: | *garn |
| [15:20] | McCabe Maxsted isn't sure where that o came from | |
| [15:21] | Geneko Nemeth wants to push the button on Garn's head, but it won't let him. | |
| [15:21] | McCabe Maxsted: | breaks the rules more than SL's viewer does? |
| [15:21] | Charlette Proto: | I want the toolbar at the top, but not a fixed row of buttons for the same funcions we have - a user defined set of tools with switching between modes (eg build/chat) |
| [15:21] | Geneko Nemeth: | Ribbon? |
| [15:22] | Charlette Proto: | a pink ribbon would be nice, perhaps tied in a knot Gen |
| [15:22] | Garn Conover: | which one? |
| [15:22] | Charlette Proto: | I mean like MS Office - user defined |
| [15:23] | Charlette Proto: | I mentioned how bad the skin is in Kirsten's viewer garn |
| [15:23] | Charlette Proto: | or was the which one re MSO? |
| [15:23] | Charlette Proto: | the office ref is only regarding the ability to use the toolbar that suits one's working routine |
| [15:24] | Charlette Proto: | I'd see it have a number of modes (build/chat etc) |
| [15:24] | Garn Conover kicks errors on imp | |
| [15:24] | Charlette Proto: | and having a way to swap/trade configurations with other residents |
| [15:25] | Charlette Proto: | what do you mean Garn? |
| [15:25] | Garn Conover: | ive got startup errors since 1.1 was released and we cant find out WHY |
| [15:25] | McCabe Maxsted: | some sort of weird lib error only garn's seeing |
| [15:25] | Charlette Proto: | last Imp was a very good move, the only thing is performance and for me the pie (radial) menu layout |
| [15:26] | Charlette Proto: | weird? Imp works very well for me except FPS |
| [15:26] | Geneko Nemeth: | Have you been compiling it with RelWithDebInfo? |
| [15:26] | Garn Conover: | 1.1 RC2 works fine |
| [15:26] | Garn Conover: | Genko i just use the downloads |
| [15:27] | Charlette Proto: | I like everything at max so snow gives the best results |
| [15:27] | Geneko Nemeth: | That's weird. I don't see any difference between Imp and Snowglobe except image decoding... |
| [15:27] | Garn Conover: | i can use 1.1 RC2 with no errors but 1.1 release and after ive gotten the same errors every time lol |
| [15:28] | Geneko Nemeth: | (But image decoding is a biggie in performance.) |
| [15:28] | Garn Conover: | highly annoying clicking through 10 or so error popups on login |
| [15:28] | Charlette Proto: | me too I use the binary, haven't compiled Second Life™ since I had VS2005, my last effort was like 2 days of pain and now I have new lappie and not all the same s/w |
| [15:29] | Charlette Proto: | ah the open source jpg decoder? |
| [15:30] | Charlette Proto: | what about the one in Snow "J2C Decoder Version: OpenJPEG: 1.3.0, Runtime: 1.3.0" |
| [15:30] | Jacek Antonelli: | That's what we're using. Is Snowglobe really using OpenJPEG? |
| [15:30] | Charlette Proto: | Gen can I ask you to do appearance or rebake |
| [15:31] | McCabe Maxsted: | snowglobe also has a lot of other texture changes |
| [15:31] | Geneko Nemeth: | 30 minutes and still a blob? |
| [15:31] | Charlette Proto: | yeah and Snow gets the best FPS for me |
| [15:31] | Charlette Proto: | yeah snow has the media plugin now and HTTP |
| [15:31] | Charlette Proto: | good thankies gen |
| [15:31] | Charlette Proto: | you are pretty as ever now |
| [15:31] | Geneko Nemeth: | I don't think HTTP fetch works yet... |
| [15:31] | Charlette Proto: | the map works |
| [15:32] | McCabe Maxsted: | there's other stuff besides http fetch |
| [15:32] | Charlette Proto: | but it can be blury at times |
| [15:33] | Jacek Antonelli: | Hrm. I wish we had more developers. It's hard to even keep up with other viewers, let alone add new stuff. |
| [15:33] | Charlette Proto: | like now I've popped the minimap and when I zoom I get blury green, suppose not much here but should see the OS building at least |
| [15:33] | Charlette Proto: | true Jacek |
| [15:34] | Geneko Nemeth: | I can feel that too. |
| [15:35] | McCabe Maxsted nods | |
| [15:35] | Charlette Proto: | BTW how far did Mm get with his dynamically built widget thingie? anyone know? |
| [15:35] | McCabe Maxsted: | honestly, it's been a bad week for me too. Lot of other things going on |
| [15:36] | Jacek Antonelli: | Mm had some computer trouble |
| [15:36] | Jacek Antonelli: | But he has started working on it again recently |
| [15:36] | Geneko Nemeth: | I think Imprudence needs a little bit of evangelism. |
| [15:36] | Charlette Proto: | haha shit happens |
| [15:36] | McCabe Maxsted: | I'm going to be on a panel on friday talking about it |
| [15:36] | Charlette Proto: | me too, even the testing could do with a few more people using it |
| [15:37] | Jacek Antonelli: | A panel? |
| [15:37] | McCabe Maxsted: | something called "rezzed tv"? |
| [15:37] | Charlette Proto: | but hard to know/easy to forget to check if there is something new to download |
| [15:37] | McCabe Maxsted: | they wanted to talk about 3rd party viewers; there're a few emerald people on the panel too |
| [15:37] | Jacek Antonelli: | Cool |
| [15:38] | Geneko Nemeth: | And website doesn't look very... "Download this!"-y. |
| [15:38] | Jacek Antonelli: | Hrm. True. |
| [15:38] | Charlette Proto: | yes gen |
| [15:38] | McCabe Maxsted intends to announce our forthcoming mega-ultra-copybo--oops! Almost let that slip! | |
| [15:38] | Charlette Proto: | what panel are you talking about McCabe |
| [15:38] | Jacek Antonelli: | McCabe! Shhhhh! |
| [15:39] | Charlette Proto: | don't say a thing against copybot or morgaine will call you a ludite |
| [15:39] | Jacek Antonelli: | hahaha |
| [15:39] | McCabe Maxsted: | heh |
| [15:39] | Charlette Proto: | apparently the future is copy what you need - hehe |
| [15:40] | Charlette Proto: | no matter who gets hurt or what permission they give |
| [15:40] | Charlette Proto: | some people just think Open Source is a utopian thing |
| [15:41] | Charlette Proto: | just as well Sun, IBM, Novel and even LL don't think this way |
| [15:41] | Charlette Proto: | AMD too do OS with 100% respect for data ownership |
| [15:41] | Charlette Proto: | data/info |
| [15:42] | Jacek Antonelli: | We should probably talk about something UX-related today sometime. |
| [15:42] | Charlette Proto: | sure, is the toolbar topic overused |
| [15:43] | Charlette Proto: | I mean spent |
| [15:43] | Jacek Antonelli: | We can talk about the toolbar |
| [15:43] | Geneko Nemeth: | Maybe we don't have to. We have enough ideas that are unimplemented. |
| [15:43] | Charlette Proto: | I really think the toolbar (programmable) is the best way to make a good UI in Second Life™ |
| [15:44] | Geneko Nemeth: | Good defaults are still needed, 90% of people won't touch customization options. |
| [15:44] | Geneko Nemeth: | (Not when it's so complex....) |
| [15:44] | Charlette Proto: | should we look at something else you would like to implement but aren't sure how to move on etc |
| [15:44] | Geneko Nemeth: | ... |
| [15:44] | Charlette Proto: | that is the point Gen, they would share the ones people like us make |
| [15:45] | Jacek Antonelli: | Distribute custom UIs as an inworld item? |
| [15:45] | Jacek Antonelli: | It's just crazy enough to work! |
| [15:45] | Charlette Proto: | that is why i see it as open to config from a file people can share and trade |
| [15:46] | McCabe Maxsted: | hm, not sure how to implement.... |
| [15:46] | McCabe Maxsted: | double click ui preferences? |
| [15:46] | Charlette Proto: | you think, I believe good UI layouts would really lend themselves to swapping amongst people doing the same things |
| [15:47] | Charlette Proto: | one would load a config file which only changes the toolbar sets and the menu would have a selection of the ones you have available to use |
| [15:47] | Charlette Proto: | may need to be a local HD file rather than inventory thing, but should be on the server if poss |
| [15:48] | Charlette Proto: | just like another set of floater XML files you swap between |
| [15:49] | Charlette Proto: | the main thing would be the ability to drop any of the UI elements into a hierarchical set of tools |
| [15:50] | Charlette Proto: | lag |
| [15:50] | Charlette Proto: | I didn't see McCabe's text yet |
| [15:51] | McCabe Maxsted: | sorry, I had an idea, then realized it was stupid so I didn't send it |
| [15:51] | Charlette Proto: | ah hehe |
| [15:51] | Charlette Proto: | and I blame LL |
| [15:51] | McCabe Maxsted: | hehe |
| [15:51] | McCabe Maxsted: | it's a bad habit to break |
| [15:51] | McCabe Maxsted: | especially the way they make it so easy sometimes... |
| [15:51] | Charlette Proto: | any idea on how Sun add things into the UI in Project Wonderland |
| [15:52] | Charlette Proto: | lag makes for a lot of confusion too |
| [15:53] | Charlette Proto: | Su have a lot of stuff in the context menu |
| [15:53] | Charlette Proto: | Sun* |
| [15:53] | Charlette Proto: | toast crumbs under the keys |
| [15:53] | McCabe Maxsted throws out random ux phrases. "Lexicon! Floater! Usability! Menu system!" | |
| [15:54] | Charlette Proto: | just remembered that I've seen a 'good' example for the machinima camera timeline tools |
| [15:54] | Charlette Proto: | nice one McCabe |
| [15:54] | Geneko Nemeth: | Gah! McCabe found out my secret! |
| [15:54] | Charlette Proto: | sounded like semantic web |
| [15:54] | McCabe Maxsted: | muwahaha |
| [15:55] | McCabe Maxsted: | I'm actually a bot |
| [15:55] | McCabe Maxsted is part of an insidious plot to fuck up all your pie menus and take over the grid | |
| [15:55] | Jacek Antonelli: | It's working so far! |
| [15:55] | Geneko Nemeth: | You don't happen to be the same person as Mark V Shane, do you? |
| [15:55] | Charlette Proto: | the camera timeline environment editor i saw is in a bunch of demos by "unigine" |
| [15:56] | McCabe Maxsted: | mark v? |
| [15:56] | Charlette Proto: | very hot looking stuff capable of DX11 (makes Blue Mars look ancient) |
| [15:56] | Charlette Proto: | but proprietory thing by a bunch of russians |
| [15:56] | Geneko Nemeth: | An application of Markov chain to generate random phrases that have a quaint quality to them. |
| [15:56] | Charlette Proto: | kind of like a russian code mafia |
| [15:57] | McCabe Maxsted: | so kind of like a robotic wilford brimley |
| [15:57] | Geneko Nemeth: | Wilford Brimley? |
| [15:57] | McCabe Maxsted: | from the diabet'es commercials |
| [15:58] | Jacek Antonelli: | He probably doesn't get those where he lives |
| [15:58] | Geneko Nemeth: | Never heard of that guy, is he one of your US inventions? |
| [15:58] | McCabe Maxsted: | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXQaMaBxwRg |
| [15:58] | Charlette Proto: | if you want something to challenge/benchmark your DX11 go to unigine.com and look at Heaven demo, one can walk/fly about etc |
| [16:01] | Charlette Proto: | but my point mentioning the uningine is the environment editor - really quite nice |
| [16:02] | McCabe Maxsted: | we don't have health care reform yet, so yeah; crazy us invention :) |
| [16:02] | McCabe Maxsted: | charlette: know of any screens? |
| [16:02] | Charlette Proto: | designed to make demo fly-through which is about 90% suitable for machinima work |
| [16:02] | Charlette Proto: | screens? |
| [16:02] | McCabe Maxsted: | screenshots |
| [16:02] | Charlette Proto: | for unigine? |
| [16:03] | McCabe Maxsted: | for their environment editor |
| [16:03] | Charlette Proto: | need to take pics, didn't see any so far |
| [16:03] | Charlette Proto: | the downloads are small - not like Blue Mars |
| [16:04] | Charlette Proto: | but the system is very much like BM, everything (the world) on HD |
| [16:04] | McCabe Maxsted: | it prolly says a lot about me that every time I see people mentioning "BM" I think "body modification" |
| [16:05] | Charlette Proto: | I can't run it along side of Second Life™ it is really too much for my laptop, works best on the desktop with an ATI DX11 card |
| [16:05] | Charlette Proto: | haha McCabe |
| [16:06] | McCabe Maxsted: | *coughs* anyway, would be very curious to see some pics, yeah |
| [16:06] | Charlette Proto: | I'll make some to pass around, it really looks relevant to out machinima theme |
| [16:07] | Charlette Proto: | I've been looking for something like that, but most other seem too tech |
| [16:08] | Charlette Proto: | wish it wasn't a proprietory platform with a minimum cost of US$50k like the LL Private Server thinggie |
| [16:09] | McCabe Maxsted: | yikes |
| [16:09] | Charlette Proto: | you've seen the Second Life™ behind Firewall blogs |
| [16:09] | McCabe Maxsted: | heard it mentioned af ew times, yeah |
| [16:09] | Charlette Proto: | very similar approach for corporate peeps |
| [16:10] | McCabe Maxsted wonders just what benefits a program with neglligible enterprise tools could have to warrant the price | |
| [16:10] | Charlette Proto: | not sure of LLs chances at that, I'd never assume they could make something that is secure, prolly would go for Sun Project wonderland if I was looking at an enterprise build |
| [16:11] | Charlette Proto: | I can see (long term) possibilities in design, but not without Real Life™ model import capabilities |
| [16:12] | Charlette Proto: | if it integrated Real Life™ CAD models as well as Google Sketchup Pro than maybe there is market for it, but not based on prims |
| [16:13] | Charlette Proto: | I meant " as good as" Sketchup can |
| [16:13] | McCabe Maxsted: | maybe they just want to run their secret office gor islands without anyone finding out |
| [16:13] | Charlette Proto: | yeah LL Gors |
| [16:13] | Charlette Proto: | maybe M is a Gore, he only thinks of chat |
| [16:13] | McCabe Maxsted: | but, yeah, heh; would like to see what their pitch is |
| [16:13] | Charlette Proto: | SN seems to be the M thing in Second Life™ not builds |
| [16:14] | Charlette Proto: | lookin at the vids on the tube, he thinks Second Life™ is a text chat now and V2 viewer will be a voice app with text thrown in |
| [16:15] | Geneko Nemeth: | How naive. |
| [16:15] | McCabe Maxsted: | "psh, who uses text anymore?" |
| [16:15] | Charlette Proto: | thius what I think too, but it explains the last year a lot |
| [16:15] | Charlette Proto: | we do McCabe |
| [16:15] | Charlette Proto: | people who want a log |
| [16:16] | Charlette Proto: | and alts |
| [16:16] | Charlette Proto: | and tranies hehe |
| [16:16] | Geneko Nemeth: | Why do you want a log when you could just record the whole meeting and upload it on YouTube? |
| [16:16] | Jacek Antonelli: | heh |
| [16:16] | Charlette Proto: | true but you can't search so easily yet |
| [16:17] | McCabe Maxsted thinks it's a sign of lindnes using voice for all their meetings, then realizing that they bolted the voice controls on in a very ugly and hard to use way, so they've gone to the opposite extreme | |
| [16:17] | Charlette Proto: | seems so McCabe |
| [16:17] | McCabe Maxsted: | just my opinion about something I've only seen blurry screenshots of and read random comments on.... |
| [16:17] | Geneko Nemeth: | Me, I'm not relying on Voice until the client goes open source. |
| [16:18] | Charlette Proto: | yeah, the vids don't show anything clearly besides DX shadows demo he made |
| [16:18] | Jacek Antonelli: | Yay, I get to try out the minimap radar abuse report |
| [16:18] | Charlette Proto: | WTF |
| [16:18] | McCabe Maxsted: | hehe |
| [16:18] | Geneko Nemeth: | I think they are just testing griefing tools. |
| [16:18] | McCabe Maxsted: | who's that? |
| [16:18] | Jacek Antonelli: | archimede Beverly |
| [16:18] | Charlette Proto shouts: PERLALUCENTE Bellic you will get reported if you keep going on | |
| [16:19] | Charlette Proto: | stupid trolls! |
| [16:19] | Geneko Nemeth: | I don't think they know this place actually has a purpose. |
| [16:19] | Charlette Proto: | bet they don't |
| [16:20] | Geneko Nemeth: | It's a perfect place for testing stuff out, isn't it? |
| [16:20] | McCabe Maxsted: | hm, weird, it didn't auto fill the name |
| [16:20] | Geneko Nemeth whispers: Although, not as good as Dynamism... | |
| [16:20] | Charlette Proto: | he asked for it stupid fool |
| [16:21] | Geneko Nemeth: | Well, I'm getting bored. |
| [16:21] | McCabe Maxsted: | did it autofill for you jacek? |
| [16:21] | McCabe Maxsted: | ah lovely |
| [16:21] | McCabe Maxsted nods. Sorry, just not really feeling it today | |
| [16:22] | Jacek Antonelli: | Let's adjourn, we're done anyway. Take care everyone, see you next week! |