User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-12

Topic

User Experience Interest Group Discussion for November 12, 2009.

Topic: Leaked SL 2.0 Email.

Summary

We had some fun speculating about about the SL 2.0 UI, in light of a leaked email filled with UI feedback (see links). Mmmm, chat toasts!

Links

• Alphaville Herald coverage, with a full reproduction of the email
• Toast (computing) - Wikipedia
• Screenshot with an unintentional glimpse of the SL 2.0 UI
• Ubuntu/Canonical Notifications Mockup
• Geneko's favorite Korean MMO UI

Transcript

[15:08]	Jacek Antonelli:	Okay, so. Today we're going to be talking (more like speculating) about the SL 2.0 viewer. In case you haven't heard, there was an internal email that was accidently sent out, and had some feedback about a test version of the viewer.
[15:08]	Ardy Lay:	Any verification on the validity of that "document"?
[15:08]	Wut Moorlord:	ooh, is there a link to it?
[15:09]	Jacek Antonelli:	I can vouch for the email being authentic, I'm on the list it was accidently sent to.
[15:09]	McCabe Maxsted:	http://foo.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2009/11/alexa-lindens-prehalloween-treat.html
[15:09]	Charlette Proto:	does anyone have a copy of it
[15:09]	Opensource Obscure:	is confirmed enough. Tateru Nino spoke with another Linden about that
[15:09]	Charlette Proto:	ah kewl, I missed it
[15:09]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	BTW, another leak: http://www.sljirastats.com/VWR-16044
[15:09]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yes, and Tom Hale confirmed that it was legit. See:
[15:09]	Aimee Trescothick prefers Tateru's version, rather than the gutter press
[15:10]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yes, Tateru's write-up is better. The Herald has the full email, though
[15:10]	Charlette Proto:	reads like Second Life™ is an IM application
[15:10]	McCabe Maxsted:	just the first link I had handy, no preference :)
[15:10]	Techwolf Lupindo:	W@here is tateru link?
[15:10]	Charlette Proto:	not surprised going by the vids - all about voice chat, but what happened to video in IM
[15:11]	Jacek Antonelli:	The Massively link is Tateru's
[15:12]	Charlette Proto:	second row sitting - nice
[15:13]	Geneko Nemeth:	Maybe rotate and elevate them a bit?
[15:13]	Morgaine Dinova:	I still don't get why Viewer2.0 was even started. The alleged reason is nuts, because if they increase retention, SL will collapse. It's not ready for it.
[15:13]	Fury Rosewood:	magic mushrooms
[15:13]	Fury Rosewood:	i dont trust the SL herald
[15:13]	Fury Rosewood:	i take whatever they say with a bucket of salt
[15:13]	Jacek Antonelli:	Okay, so -- the email focused a lot on the chat and IM, which have apparently changed significantly
[15:13]	Geneko Nemeth:	Well, that's what you get when a firm tries to increase revenue instead of profit...
[15:14]	Jacek Antonelli:	Fury: Indeed. But in this case, the info has been confirmed elsewhere
[15:14]	Fury Rosewood:	all this reminds me of is the Uchi kitty
[15:14]	Jacek Antonelli:	Although I haven't checked to make sure their copy of the email is 100% accurate
[15:14]	Fury Rosewood:	so until it comes to light, i wouldnt give it much notice
[15:14]	Fury Rosewood:	speculation and rumor makes people antsy and bleh
[15:15]	Opensource Obscure:	this was I noted down that email I received:
[15:15]	Opensource Obscure:	chat toasts Alt-Enter toggles full-screen and that seems to be very buggy and maybe even unsupported in Viewer 2.0 Notecards have always been poor and still are. I like that URLs are parsed The ability to sort friends into folders is a common feature in IM messengers, is asked for by Residents and would certainly be welcomed by new users as well [it implies this is not implemented yet] Recent People tab
[15:15]	Charlette Proto:	retension is not an issue (in my view) this is a NOOB platform (and poorely understood) so there is constant infux hence it will keep growing and churning users
[15:16]	Jacek Antonelli:	Good notes, OO
[15:16]	Charlette Proto:	full screen has its problems - focus!!!
[15:16]	Opensource Obscure:	I love eating toasts
[15:16]	Charlette Proto:	the file dialogs for example dont rise to foreground
[15:16]	Fury Rosewood:	instead of running FS i just run windowed with the task bar on autohide
[15:17]	Jacek Antonelli:	I also want to point out that even though the email points out a lot of problems, the problems can be fixed (and we must assume will be).
[15:17]	Jacek Antonelli:	After all, the point of the email was supposed to be to relay feedback from testers to the developers so they could fix the issues.
[15:17]	Charlette Proto:	TIMESTAMPS - we really need to address the timezone issues
[15:18]	Jacek Antonelli:	What I'm more interested in than the bugs, is the UI changes that are hinted at. Like the chat toasts.
[15:18]	Charlette Proto:	if you don't live on west coast you never know what time is used in a given email item
[15:18]	Jacek Antonelli:	Which sound yummy. Chat toast with spam.
[15:18]	Geneko Nemeth:	What are these chat toasts?
[15:18]	Charlette Proto:	another thing is the reading of past IM timestamp instead of the time sent
[15:18]	Jacek Antonelli:	They are mysterious, but I have a guess
[15:18]	Opensource Obscure:	geneko, i had to wikipediasearch it
[15:19]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Two seperate timestamp settings, one for chat and one for logs for time zone used.
[15:19]	Opensource Obscure:	a toast is a small, informational window displayed by certain kinds of software, especially instant messaging clients
[15:19]	Techwolf Lupindo:	and weither or not to put time zone in the timestamp also.
[15:19]	Charlette Proto:	I've never seen a comm platform where timestamps are ambiguous or plain wrong
[15:19]	Opensource Obscure:	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gmail_Notifier.png
[15:19]	Geneko Nemeth:	Oh! Like "Geneko Nemeth is Online."?
[15:19]	Aimee Trescothick:	I guess it was bound to come out eventually, LL has decided there's more money to be made from avatar baking
[15:19]	Charlette Proto:	precisely Tech I did a JIRA on it but not many responses there
[15:19]	Opensource Obscure:	you can see them in Runitai Linden photo album on Picasa
[15:19]	Opensource Obscure:	....i think.
[15:20]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I think all other program BUT SL uses local time.
[15:20]	Jacek Antonelli:	hehehe Aimee
[15:20]	Opensource Obscure:	http://picasaweb.google.com/Runitai/DeferredRendering
[15:20]	Aimee Trescothick:	the new viewer also includes breakfast muffins for group notices
[15:20]	Jacek Antonelli:	Mmmmmm
[15:20]	Geneko Nemeth:	Urgh... I hate breakfast muffins.
[15:20]	Opensource Obscure:	look at the photo in the lower row, with ducks.
[15:20]	Aimee Trescothick:	and a tasty range of jams and pickles when it crashes
[15:21]	Charlette Proto:	if ambiguous time stamp is used it should be marked so, but the date/time of reading/opening a message instead os the time sent is just lazy code
[15:21]	Jacek Antonelli:	Truly, this will the the viewer of the future.
[15:22]	Charlette Proto:	Kirstens viewer has some good deferred rendering - shame the UI is so hopelessly ugly and illegible
[15:22]	Geneko Nemeth:	No, the viewer of the future will be Imprudence!
[15:22]	Opensource Obscure:	i tried to sketch up the interface with prims...sorry for ugliness overflow
[15:23]	Bronson Blackadder:	kirsten released a new version
[15:23]	Geneko Nemeth:	Myah?
[15:23]	Bronson Blackadder:	yes
[15:23]	Geneko Nemeth didn't notice OO was building
[15:23]	Jacek Antonelli:	We'll have to add pastries to compete with LL's toast
[15:23]	Geneko Nemeth:	Oh no we don't.
[15:23]	Charlette Proto:	3D UI Open really needs to be harnessing the 3D not just add depth to buttons
[15:23]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	OO: the arrow points to the toast?
[15:24]	Geneko Nemeth:	Instead, we do "can't touch this" notifications like Ubuntu does. Nyahaha!
[15:24]	Opensource Obscure:	thick: i think yes.
[15:24]	Aimee Trescothick:	yes, you'll need the full loaf to do it justice in 3D
[15:24]	Charlette Proto:	more like operating in Real Life™ space rather than 2D windows with depth
[15:24]	Jacek Antonelli:	Here's the image OO's build is using: http://lh5.ggpht.com/_KKLa6UL3-wg/SqsglgNnQPI/AAAAAAAABW8/BqcJcL1bbkU/s912/duck%20lod.JPG
[15:24]	Geneko Nemeth:	Human interaction is mostly 2D, our user input devices are mostly 2D, you can't use those to manipulate a 3D UI.
[15:24]	Charlette Proto:	??? ducks
[15:24]	Opensource Obscure:	and we already saw the right-side panel some months ago
[15:24]	Ardy Lay:	That's an envelope.
[15:25]	Charlette Proto:	dicks should be yellow
[15:25]	Jacek Antonelli:	Bigger version: http://lh5.ggpht.com/_KKLa6UL3-wg/SqsglgNnQPI/AAAAAAAABW8/BqcJcL1bbkU/s1440/duck%20lod.JPG
[15:25]	Geneko Nemeth:	Maybe if we had 3d globes we could have 3D UI...
[15:25]	Jacek Antonelli:	Ignore the ducks, we're looking at the UI ;)
[15:25]	Geneko Nemeth:	But the ducks!
[15:25]	Charlette Proto:	I like the dicks, but can't see any 3D UI
[15:26]	Geneko Nemeth:	s/globe/glove/
[15:26]	Charlette Proto:	that is not 3D (Hippo) depth to buttons is not 3D
[15:26]	Jacek Antonelli:	Hrm... ducks like to eat bread... toast... it's all connected! DUN DUN DUNNN
[15:26]	Bronson Blackadder:	thats the new kirsten release
[15:27]	Jacek Antonelli:	Thanks Bronson
[15:27]	Wut Moorlord:	ty
[15:27]	Charlette Proto:	3D UI has more to do a 'device in space' like a car dashboard in front of you etc
[15:27]	Bronson Blackadder:	anyone know if 2.0 will have chat bubbles?
[15:27]	Jacek Antonelli:	Why are you talking about 3D UI, Charlette?
[15:27]	Geneko Nemeth:	We already have chat bubbles.
[15:27]	Charlette Proto:	kirstens is the worst skin I've seen so far
[15:28]	Geneko Nemeth:	It's just... it turns off the chat console, and that makes it hard to keep up with what's being said.
[15:28]	Geneko Nemeth:	Among other things...
[15:28]	Opensource Obscure:	( sorry AFK - see you later )
[15:28]	Jacek Antonelli:	Geneko: They might possibly remove chat bubbles. I don't think they would, though.
[15:28]	Jacek Antonelli:	Bye OO, thanks for coming
[15:28]	Wut Moorlord:	tc oo
[15:28]	Fury Rosewood:	take care
[15:28]	Charlette Proto:	recall the XBOX menus, that was a start of 3D UI - one needs to use spacial orientation etc not just give depth to 2D buttons - that is alme and useless
[15:29]	Geneko Nemeth would rather have the chat console *not* off when bubbles is on
[15:29]	Jacek Antonelli:	Charlette, no one is talking about 3D UI. OO just put the picture of the UI on prims so we could see them here.
[15:30]	Geneko Nemeth:	There's gotta be a better way to collaborate than this...
[15:30]	Charlette Proto:	imagine a device woth levers etc like a car dashboard and add spacially organised displays
[15:30]	Ardy Lay:	I did and Rube Goldberg came to mind.
[15:31]	Wut Moorlord:	Ardy :)
[15:31]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	heh
[15:31]	Jacek Antonelli:	Charlette, you're off topic. Just drop the 3D UI stuff, okay?
[15:31]	Ardy Lay:	If I wanted that I would be playing Crazy Machines 2.
[15:31]	Charlette Proto:	if controls are all around you eg an aircraft cockpit you can see and reach far more than flat layout, but bevelled buttons is not 3D you need to use the space around the user
[15:31]	Charlette Proto:	OK
[15:32]	Bronson Blackadder:	I really do like the idea behind 2.0... with some way to slide all the button crap to one side and out of the way
[15:32]	Geneko Nemeth:	Eep.
[15:32]	Wut Moorlord:	xD
[15:32]	Opensource Obscure:	the perils of 3d UIs
[15:32]	Techwolf Lupindo grins
[15:32]	Jacek Antonelli:	I hope the real SL 2.0 UI can fall down with physics
[15:32]	Charlette Proto:	BTW I didn't start it
[15:32]	Geneko Nemeth:	Hahahahahaha.
[15:33]	Jacek Antonelli:	Okay, so. Chat toasts. My impression is that these are notices that "pop up" (like toast does out of a toaster, hence the name), holding the chat someone said.
[15:34]	Wut Moorlord:	and you might infer they stack
[15:35]	Wut Moorlord:	and the same mechanism is used for dialogs, hence the complaint about chasing them all over the screen
[15:35]	Jacek Antonelli:	And are covered in butter. Mmm. Oops, losing my focus.
[15:35]	Ardy Lay:	The little blue friend online/offline notices in the lower right in the current SL client from LL, is that a "toast"?
[15:35]	Bronson Blackadder:	yes
[15:35]	Geneko Nemeth:	No... I think toasts are supposed to pop up.
[15:35]	Ardy Lay:	I HATE THOSE THINGS
[15:35]	Morgaine Dinova pictures a team of droids coming out with brainfart ideas.
[15:35]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	see you poeple, gotta run
[15:35]	Charlette Proto:	yeah, what I saw was the Kirstens in gray and another exaple showing a icon only UI - nothing to do with 3D UI
[15:35]	Jacek Antonelli:	tc Thickbrick
[15:36]	Wut Moorlord:	see you thinkbrick
[15:36]	McCabe Maxsted:	take care thick
[15:36]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yes, the current notices are a kind of toast. But I think they're using something different for chat toasts. Apparently the chat toasts are a replacement for the chat console (where chat shows up in the bottom left, when the Communicate window is closed)
[15:36]	Charlette Proto:	BTW kirstens icons are trash even if colour is changed and the layout does not accommodate text at all (hover is not enough)
[15:38]	Jacek Antonelli:	The email suggests that the chat toasts accumulate, and fade out eventually (too quickly, according to the email, but they'll likely improve that). And that you can make them fade away manually using the mouse.
[15:39]	Geneko Nemeth:	/
[15:39]	Morgaine Dinova:	This is *additional* to the regular linear transcript, I assume.
[15:39]	Charlette Proto:	Real Life™ metaphors of text displays eg sticky notes is not my point in 3D UI - think complex environments like car cockpit or shopping mall signs to understand how much info can be presented in 3D retaining legibility and benefoting from user view and orientation changes as it comes into the forground and centre view
[15:39]	Jacek Antonelli:	But the email suggests that multiple toasts from one person could be merged, which wouldn't make sense if they were stacked linearly in the order they are received. So it may be more like chat bubbles are now.
[15:40]	Jacek Antonelli:	A sort of combination of normal chat and chat bubbles.
[15:40]	Charlette Proto:	the toast metaphor is just plain lame
[15:40]	Geneko Nemeth:	You've seen the Ubuntu notification system, right?
[15:40]	Ardy Lay:	I prefer crackers and think putting much weight on what is in this leaked email is also crackers.
[15:41]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yes. Similar to Growl for Mac. Notices appear in little bubbles and stack vertically along the side
[15:41]	Jacek Antonelli:	We're just having fun, Ardy ;)
[15:41]	Morgaine Dinova:	Really does sound like a random marketting team brainfart.
[15:41]	Aimee Trescothick:	got to go
[15:41]	Aimee Trescothick waves
[15:41]	Ardy Lay:	That's fine. I also don't care for PostIT Notes.
[15:41]	Jacek Antonelli:	Take care Aimee
[15:41]	Morgaine Dinova:	Cyu Aimee
[15:41]	Geneko Nemeth:	Jacek: Yeah... but also, when it comes to IMs, they behave like chat bubbles.
[15:42]	Charlette Proto:	imagine a rolodex with rotating cards being the individual chat entries
[15:42]	Jacek Antonelli:	Gen: It sounds like that's the same sort of thing they're considering for chat in SL 2.0, then.
[15:43]	Geneko Nemeth:	But you can't interact with these notifications.
[15:43]	Charlette Proto:	one can see edges and name-tabs for lots of cards rolling back in time
[15:43]	Wut Moorlord:	eep, supposed to be somewhere, tc all
[15:43]	Geneko Nemeth:	And no notifications in Ubuntu is allowed to gather user input like llDialog - for that they need to pop up a dialog.
[15:43]	Morgaine Dinova:	Cyu Wut
[15:44]	Jacek Antonelli:	Geneko: Sure, but I think the basic idea is probably the same.
[15:45]	Jacek Antonelli:	For people who aren't familiar with the Ubuntu notifications we're talking about, here's a mockup: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/253
[15:45]	Charlette Proto:	this is a discussion in need of live whiteboard sketching
[15:45]	Jacek Antonelli:	hehe
[15:46]	Charlette Proto:	once again that was 2D
[15:46]	Fury Rosewood whispers: qty 1
[15:46]	Geneko Nemeth:	But you can't really do notifications in 3D.
[15:46]	Fury Rosewood whispers: qty 1
[15:47]	Jacek Antonelli:	Ah, I just saw that the email mentions that there are also chat bubbles
[15:47]	Jacek Antonelli:	As well as a chat history window. So they're likely not getting rid of those.
[15:47]	Charlette Proto:	imagine looking at the shop signage along the street - you see a huge number of distinct elements all over the space and could point to selest far more than any list would allow
[15:48]	Jacek Antonelli:	Although I wouldn't be surprised if the chat toasts are a replacement for the chat appearing in the lower left.
[15:48]	Bronson Blackadder:	cool
[15:48]	Bronson Blackadder:	I use chat bubbles all the time
[15:49]	Ardy Lay:	Sometimes I follow chat by running tail -f chat.txt to display it in a text window.
[15:49]	Geneko Nemeth:	I think the chat console have been replaced with a movable local chat history window that nevertheless still looks like a chat console...
[15:50]	Geneko Nemeth:	I often have both bubble chat and chat history on.
[15:50]	Geneko Nemeth:	Without bubble chat, I don't know who's speaking. Without chat history, I don't know the order everyone's talking
[15:50]	Charlette Proto:	I never use chat bubbles (did way back for a while) but find it too messy
[15:50]	Geneko Nemeth:	Messy it is!
[15:51]	Ardy Lay:	I have also been known to run that through grep to only display text from the people I am working with at the time.
[15:51]	Geneko Nemeth:	Especially when everyone have their own title.
[15:51]	Jacek Antonelli:	Ardy: You are hardcore ;)
[15:51]	Bronson Blackadder:	I'm with Gen with this
[15:51]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[15:51]	Charlette Proto:	re order - the history has the order wrong too, lag/ping time messes that up too
[15:51]	Ardy Lay:	Well, I have those programs installed on Windows 7 so I find uses for them.
[15:52]	Charlette Proto:	the relative time the text was posted should dictate the order, but that isn't easy
[15:52]	Geneko Nemeth:	(This is basically "let's scrap the viewer and plant $GENEKOS_FAVORITE_KOREAN_MMO->UI on it!".)
[15:52]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[15:52]	Charlette Proto:	haha Gen
[15:53]	Charlette Proto:	nooo lets use Google Lively UI instead haha
[15:53]	Jacek Antonelli:	hah
[15:53]	Geneko Nemeth:	That might not be bad either.
[15:53]	Charlette Proto:	chat bubbles bigger than avs
[15:53]	Geneko Nemeth:	Gestures in pie menu!
[15:53]	Charlette Proto:	actually it was better than Blue Mars when it came to chatting
[15:54]	Charlette Proto:	yess Gen that is what I'm thinking of - 3D pie menu for everything
[15:54]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[15:54]	Jacek Antonelli:	It would be fun to have chat bubbles that worked like they do in comics. Maybe not practical, but fun.
[15:54]	Charlette Proto:	sperical pie - no laughing matter -I'll get rich from that idea
[15:55]	Fury Rosewood whispers: amt 2
[15:55]	Fury Rosewood whispers: amount 2
[15:55]	Geneko Nemeth:	MS Comic chat?
[15:55]	Fury Rosewood whispers: amount 1
[15:55]	Fury Rosewood:	?
[15:55]	Fury Rosewood:	no. hud game
[15:55]	Bronson Blackadder:	ah hell just have a chat bar thats in everything you open
[15:55]	Bronson Blackadder:	chat bay in map
[15:56]	Bronson Blackadder:	chat bar in inventory
[15:56]	Jacek Antonelli:	Spherical pie... mmmm. Baked in space.
[15:56]	Bronson Blackadder:	chat bar on the chat bar....
[15:56]	Jacek Antonelli:	I like your thinking, Bronson!
[15:56]	Geneko Nemeth:	Oh man. You guys.
[15:56]	Fury Rosewood whispers: target Johannason Scarborough
[15:56]	Jacek Antonelli:	"Hey dawg I heard you like chatting so I put some chat bars in your chat bar so you can chat while you're chatting."
[15:56]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[15:57]	Jacek Antonelli:	Pimp My UI
[15:57]	Fury Rosewood:	why does that sound redundant like some fake commercial i heard of
[15:57]	Ardy Lay:	Does this chat bar serve microbrews?
[15:57]	Jacek Antonelli:	I hope so
[15:57]	Fury Rosewood:	mmmm....
[15:57]	Fury Rosewood:	i want :(
[15:58]	Bronson Blackadder:	what I feel is really annoying though is movement keys in the letters area ofthe keyboard
[15:58]	Geneko Nemeth:	$GENEKOS_FAVORITE_KOREAN_MMO->UI. http://picasaweb.google.com/kakurady/MabinogiNA#5179162119689829602
[15:58]	Geneko Nemeth:	Ah yeah. WASD?
[15:58]	Jacek Antonelli prepares a keynote presentation. "Chat bars: Too much chat, not enough bar?"
[15:58]	Charlette Proto:	keyboard? I like typewritters better
[15:58]	Bronson Blackadder:	nothing more irritating the trying to type a sentence and unbeknownst to me I'm flailing about like a marionet
[15:58]	Ardy Lay:	Hehe, yeah. Or flying away.
[15:59]	McCabe Maxsted checks the clock. Ack, gotta run. Take care everyone :)
[15:59]	Geneko Nemeth:	I would prefer using single-click autopilot.
[15:59]	Bronson Blackadder:	yes!
[15:59]	Geneko Nemeth:	(Another $GENEKOS_FAVORITE_KOREAN_MMO->UI->FEATURE !)
[15:59]	Charlette Proto:	C U McCabe (I have to go to)
[15:59]	Bronson Blackadder:	flying around
[15:59]	Bronson Blackadder:	suddenly in build mode
[15:59]	Bronson Blackadder:	walking around
[15:59]	Jacek Antonelli:	Take care McCabe
[15:59]	Bronson Blackadder:	jumping
[15:59]	Bronson Blackadder:	flying
[15:59]	Bronson Blackadder:	pisses me off
[15:59]	Bronson Blackadder:	especialy after a really lengthy sentence
[16:00]	Bronson Blackadder:	that I have to retype
[16:00]	Charlette Proto:	I kind of like a random jump and flip when i really want to make a terse comment and the system seems to magically censor it
[16:00]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[16:00]	Bronson Blackadder:	yeah
[16:00]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[16:00]	Jacek Antonelli:	Or go into mouselook mode at the same time as you're jumping and flying
[16:00]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[16:01]	Geneko Nemeth just had one of that an hour ago. Bleh.
[16:01]	Bronson Blackadder:	even after two years I still find myself doing it
[16:01]	Bronson Blackadder:	about once an hour
[16:01]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yeah
[16:02]	Jacek Antonelli:	Mmmkay. That was a fun and useless hour. ^_^ Anyone have any final comments or speculation or food-related puns?
[16:03]	Bronson Blackadder:	food related buns?
[16:03]	Jacek Antonelli:	*ba-dum ching!*
[16:03]	Bronson Blackadder:	puns
[16:03]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yeah, like toast, pie, or bars
[16:03]	Bronson Blackadder:	buns
[16:04]	Jacek Antonelli:	bun puns
[16:04]	Bronson Blackadder:	LL will make alot of D
[16:04]	Bronson Blackadder:	Dough
[16:04]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[16:04]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[16:04]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[16:04]	Bronson Blackadder:	ok I quit
[16:04]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[16:04]	Charlette Proto:	maybe a bagel torus UI will suit the jewish users
[16:04]	Jacek Antonelli:	And on that enlightening note, let's call it a day. Thanks for coming, everyone! See you next week!
[16:05]	Charlette Proto:	thanks Jacek
[16:05]	Fury Rosewood:	woo stewie is now in the haus
[16:05]	Geneko Nemeth:	Sigh... and I kinda wished to talk on what we could learn from LL's way of doing stuff...
[16:05]	Charlette Proto:	and everyone else too
[16:05]	Jacek Antonelli:	Aww
[16:05]	Charlette Proto:	really yummy cookies
[16:06]	Jacek Antonelli:	How do you mean, Geneko? We can talk about it next week
[16:06]	Geneko Nemeth shrugs
[16:07]	Geneko Nemeth:	Like their development process and that kind of stuff. But I'm to lazy to read the text three times over anyway, so let's not talk about that.
[16:07]	Jacek Antonelli:	Hm, yeah
[16:07]	Jacek Antonelli:	Okay, well. Take care, everyone!