User:Esbee Linden/Office Hours/2010-08-25

List of Attendees

• 3 Person
• Aimee Linden
• Alexandrea Fride
• Ann Otoole
• Ardy Lay
• Boroondas Gupte
• CG Linden
• Charlene Trudeau
• CPU Core
• Ellla McMahon
• Esbee Linden
• Gentle Heron
• Hitomi Tiponi
• Honour McMillan
• I Heart
• Jonathan Yap
• Kopilo Hallard
• Laddie Sutter
• Maggie Darwin
• memory free
• Mojito Sorbet
• Morgaine Dinova
• Nyx Linden
• Opensource Obscure
• Robin Cornelius
• Second Life
• Serra Anansi
• Sit anywhere
• Tillie Ariantho
• TriloByte Zanzibar
• tx Oh
• Uni Ninetails
• WolfPup Lowenhar
• XLR8RRICK Hudson

Transcript

[07:57]	Esbee Linden:	Hi all :)
[07:57]	Uni Ninetails:	hihi
[07:57]	Charlene Trudeau:	hi
[07:57]	Alexandrea Fride:	hi •‿•
[07:57]	Honour McMillan:	Morning :)
[07:57]	Jonathan Yap:	there is room for 4 in the sandpiles
[07:57]	Mojito Sorbet:	/me feels the walls closing in
[07:57]	3 Person	SandPile: Hi Esbee Linden! Say /1a to adjust your position. Touch me to change.
[07:57]	Esbee Linden:	Looks like I'm going to need a larger meeting spot :)
[07:58]	Alexandrea Fride:	:p
[07:58]	Mojito Sorbet:	SUpposed to be about tearing down walls, not building more. haha
[07:58]	Esbee Linden:	lol
[07:58]	Maggie Darwin:	Well, plenty of room in Harrington, with rezzable meeting spaces
[07:59]	Esbee Linden:	Maybe I'll build something new for next week.
[07:59]	Ardy Lay:	Aimee, best to not try that on vertical surfaces. :-)
[07:59]	Esbee Linden:	I just finished a gigantic foosball table meeting spot in my Linden space.
[07:59]	Esbee Linden:	:)
[07:59]	tx Oh:	i think its big enough
[08:00]	Jonathan Yap:	That would be good in a carnival Esbee "Kick a Linden -- 3 tries for L$100"
[08:00]	Esbee Linden:	lol
[08:00]	Esbee Linden:	nice
[08:00]	Esbee Linden:	Alrighty, let's get started. Welcome!
[08:00]	Esbee Linden:	This is my first OH since I started at LL, so I'm pretty excited :)
[08:00]	Honour McMillan:	yay!
[08:00]	Esbee Linden:	Q says hi, by the way.
[08:00]	Alexandrea Fride:	o/o/o/
[08:00]	Uni Ninetails:	:)
[08:00]	Kopilo Hallard:	hi q
[08:01]	Morgaine Dinova:	Is it even possible to hear everyone on voice in a gathering like this? You can't sit in the middle because voice is directional so you miss the people behind you, and if you sit far away then cutoff loses everyone on the far side.
[08:01]	Esbee Linden:	Just wished us all luck at this OH while he heads off to OT (occupational therapy)
[08:01]	Jonathan Yap:	Are we in voice?
[08:01]	Morgaine Dinova:	Voice is simply broken for gatherings like this.
[08:01]	Robin Cornelius:	oh is this in voice?
[08:01]	Esbee Linden:	No voice.
[08:01]	Mojito Sorbet:	good
[08:01]	Kopilo Hallard:	:D
[08:01]	Robin Cornelius:	o/
[08:01]	Esbee Linden:	We'll do this OH in text only.
[08:01]	Morgaine Dinova:	Good
[08:01]	Uni Ninetails:	thank god
[08:01]	Kopilo Hallard:	yay thank you
[08:01]	Esbee Linden:	:)
[08:01]	Esbee Linden:	So first a little intro.
[08:01]	Alexandrea Fride:	bether for transscripts annyway :p
[08:01]	Kopilo Hallard:	Esbee ++
[08:02]	Charlene Trudeau:	yeah, way too hard to have folks talking over one another in voice :)
[08:02]	Esbee Linden:	This office hour will be held weekly and will be a place for us to discuss the Snowstorm Team Backlog, but also for discussion about Viewer ideas.
[08:02]	Esbee Linden:	It's very important to me that our team backlog reflect your thoughts and ideas.
[08:03]	Esbee Linden:	So first, let me post a link to our team's backlog.
[08:03]	Mojito Sorbet:	I am a bit confused about the other teams, and how they work with yours
[08:03]	Esbee Linden:	https://spreadsheets0.google.com/ccc?key=tCVGlO5ndR_oyrfKEC9CxKA&hl=en #gid=5
[08:03]	Esbee Linden:	Mojito - Great comment.
[08:03]	Morgaine Dinova:	Do you mean the Product Backlog, or the Sprint Backlog?
[08:03]	Esbee Linden:	Morgaine - Product Backlog
[08:03]	Esbee Linden:	sorry, should have been more clear!
[08:04]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hehe, aye, it's confusing to have them both called "Backlog"
[08:04]	Esbee Linden:	As we've been discussing at various meetings, there are about 16 or 17 Scrum teams at the Lab.
[08:04]	Esbee Linden:	The Snowstorm Team is just one Scrum team, so this Product Backlog is reflective of just our team's work.
[08:04]	Esbee Linden:	There are other teams working on the Viewer too.
[08:04]	Mojito Sorbet:	How do we see their backlogs?
[08:04]	Esbee Linden:	Our team has committed to working in the open and hoping to serve as an example of how all teams can work in the open.
[08:05]	Esbee Linden:	Right now, not all backlogs are public.
[08:05]	Esbee Linden:	The Snowstorm Team is hoping to get more teams to "come out" so to speak :)
[08:05]	Mojito Sorbet:	So all that talk about a new open process at SLCC only applies to Snowstorm?
[08:05]	Morgaine Dinova:	A list of the scrum names, marked up with those that are open, would make this much clearer. Even just their names alone would help
[08:05]	Ann Otoole:	would be nice if commerce and search would open up lol
[08:05]	Esbee Linden:	We will be posting a roadmap that will include work that other teams are working on. But that's still in the works.
[08:05]	Aimee Linden:	Snowstorm is laying the path for the rest to follow
[08:06]	Mojito Sorbet:	Would be better still if ALL were open, by edict from above
[08:06]	Esbee Linden:	Morgaine. That's a great idea. I'll talk to the Biz Leads about getting a list of Scrum teams out there.
[08:06]	Hitomi Tiponi:	a combined roadmap sounds good Esbee
[08:06]	tx Oh:	snowstorm are the brave :-)
[08:06]	Boroondas Gupte:	:-)
[08:06]	Honour McMillan:	or Snowstorm is cannon fodder :)
[08:06]	Mojito Sorbet:	There is no point proposing ideas to Snowstorm if somebody in a back room is already working on that area.
[08:07]	Esbee Linden:	Mojito - That's true. But that's why I'm here.
[08:07]	Maggie Darwin:	By watching Snowstorm, others can get the drift.
[08:07]	Ann Otoole:	well if ya got something to hide must be a reason :P
[08:07]	Esbee Linden:	So let me explain how I'm working.
[08:07]	Morgaine Dinova:	Esbee: that would be cool, thanks. We're trying to piece together a jigsaw, and the names would provide a framework.
[08:07]	Esbee Linden:	As the Product Manager for the Snowstorm Team, I have a number of responsibilities.
[08:07]	Esbee Linden:	First, I am responsible for being a representative for your ideas and wishes for the Viewer.
[08:08]	Esbee Linden:	So I want to make myself available to you as much as possible to talk about ideas, problems, and challenges for the Viewer.
[08:08]	Morgaine Dinova:	Esbee: you're brave, you know :-)
[08:08]	Alexandrea Fride:	ℒℴℒ
[08:08]	Hitomi Tiponi:	thanks Esbee :)
[08:08]	tx Oh:	(it would be nice to see the QA backlog)
[08:09]	Esbee Linden:	Next, it's also my responsibility to talk to other Product Managers and Business Leads at the Lab to share your thoughts and ideas - and our Backlog, to make sure we're not duplicating efforts.
[08:09]	Robin Cornelius:	Esbee, something i'm not sure of the protocol on still, if i'm working on an issue on the backlog the way this gets recorded or at least noted to avoid duplicate efforts. I understand that on one can own an issue outright and certainly not for extended time but marking someone has started would give someone else a heads up as to what they did and where
[08:09]	Robin Cornelius:	*can not
[08:09]	tx Oh:	well, esbee, i fear that just to have an 'open ear' didn't get things done.
[08:09]	Alexandrea Fride:	he made it :p hey Nyx :p
[08:10]	Esbee Linden:	Robin - If there's something you are working on in the backlog or want to work on, please let Oz or I know and we'll record it.
[08:10]	Morgaine Dinova:	/me waves at the wee robot
[08:10]	Esbee Linden:	And if you're working with us in a Sprint, you're also welcome to join us for the Daily Scrum to give us an update on your progress!
[08:10]	Nyx Linden:	greetings - I heard this was where all the cool kids were hanging out :)
[08:10]	Esbee Linden:	Hey Nyx :)
[08:10]	Robin Cornelius:	i've mentioned it to oz a few times, its the socks 5 proxy work, which i see as fitting under #51 on the backlog, and my test code is at https://bitbucket.org/robincornelius/viewer-development-vwr-20801
[08:10]	Alexandrea Fride:	yup yup :p
[08:11]	Esbee Linden:	Sweet! Robin, I will follow up on this today.
[08:11]	Robin Cornelius:	but i was expecting a nod, saying something or at least a comment linking #51 to VWR-20801
[08:11]	Uni Ninetails:	Number 100 on that spreadsheet need moving to the top >.>
[08:11]	Esbee Linden:	Oz and I have been wrapped up in a lot of process discussion internally unfortunately.
[08:11]	Laddie Sutter:	i second that motion
[08:11]	Esbee Linden:	Item 100. Let me take a look
[08:11]	Alexandrea Fride:	temp images
[08:11]	Uni Ninetails:	:)
[08:11]	Robin Cornelius:	ok thanks, i want to put it out to test for a request a pull anyway, but at least you know its there (and it needs a resync)
[08:12]	Uni Ninetails:	Local aswell
[08:12]	Morgaine Dinova:	I'm hoping that process gets clarified at this meeting. How "the nod" happens.
[08:12]	Esbee Linden:	Yeah, that's a good one.
[08:12]	Robin Cornelius:	*test _before_ a request (i meant to say)
[08:13]	Esbee Linden:	"The nod" - yes, we need to be clearer about that. If you're interesting in working on something from our Sprint Backlog - meaning something we've committed to delivering in a current sprint, it should be a quick nod and we'll put your name beside a task.
[08:13]	Robin Cornelius:	ideal
[08:13]	Esbee Linden:	For something on the Product Backlog, it might take me a few days to talk to other Biz leads and product owners to make sure we're not overlapping with anything they're currently workign on.
[08:13]	Mojito Sorbet:	I am missing something.
[08:13]	Robin Cornelius:	I know another prodict manager was chasing me on this one anyway ;-)
[08:14]	Mojito Sorbet:	Did not Philip say that for the next 6 months, the focus was to be on stability?
[08:14]	tx Oh:	well, the work flow seems to have a very narrow bottle neck
[08:14]	Esbee Linden:	Mojito - we have teams working on stability
[08:14]	Esbee Linden:	But the Snowstorm Team is a new team focused on making rapid improvements to the Viewer
[08:14]	Alexandrea Fride:	@101 more attachment points, dont we have that now in viewer 2 ?
[08:14]	Mojito Sorbet:	I got the impression it was to be an all hands drill. I must have misinterpreted it
[08:14]	Robin Cornelius:	importing the snowglobe patches will help a lot with that, there were a lot of anti-greifing patches there
[08:15]	Esbee Linden:	These could be stability improvements, usability, snowglobe imports, etc.
[08:15]	Esbee Linden:	Agreed, Robin.
[08:15]	Nyx Linden:	viewer 2 has the ability to attach multiple things to the existing points. it does not add new points.
[08:15]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	/me agrees with robin
[08:15]	Esbee Linden:	Right. Thanks for the clarification, Nyx.
[08:15]	Alexandrea Fride:	k :p
[08:15]	Boroondas Gupte:	hi CG :-)
[08:15]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	hey cg
[08:16]	Nyx Linden:	adding new attachment points should be easy, but will take a while to become standard enough for general use
[08:16]	Esbee Linden:	Hey CG :)
[08:16]	Morgaine Dinova:	To a large degree, I think the Snowstorm team may have the most important role of all early on, because unless the UI is rapidly made acceptable along V1 lines, the entire FOSS contribution process is sunk.
[08:17]	Esbee Linden:	Yes, we have a lot of important UI work to do. Agreed, Morgaine.
[08:17]	Uni Ninetails:	Little sidetrack, What imprudence using as a base? someone?
[08:17]	Robin Cornelius:	Uni, snowglobe 1.X currently
[08:17]	Morgaine Dinova:	Impru is now using Snowglobe as base
[08:17]	Esbee Linden:	Right now, we have a few devs working on undockable sidebar tabs. So you could drag a tab from the right hand side of the Viewer and turn it into a Floater.
[08:18]	tx Oh:	imprudence use this and that :-)
[08:18]	Esbee Linden:	Last night, Philip and I chatted about moving floaters outside the main Viewer window. THis is something Q and I have spent some time working on as well. We hope to work on that shortly.
[08:18]	Uni Ninetails:	ty, Just i had a widdle chat with Mcabe hes puttin in local textures :) was gunna im me later to test.
[08:18]	Alexandrea Fride:	thats cool Esbee •‿•
[08:18]	Esbee Linden:	A few members of the UX team are also talking with me about other ways to make our UI more flexible.
[08:18]	Morgaine Dinova:	As tx says, Impru adds changesets from everywhere, on top of its Snowglobe 1.x base
[08:18]	TriloByte Zanzibar:	floating windows would be great
[08:18]	Charlene Trudeau:	one thing that I think a lot of users fail to realize is that ALL UI changes are painful, even minor ones. Once you're used to it, 2.x is not evil incarnate. I'm not saying that changes shouldn't be made, but they are going to scream regardless simply because there is a change.
[08:18]	Boroondas Gupte:	Btw., I've made some comments on the scatch jira issue, might want to consider those.
[08:19]	Boroondas Gupte:	VWR-20695
[08:19]	Esbee Linden:	I'd love to share those discussions. In fact, I think I'll post some of the sketches we've been putting together for that UI customization.
[08:19]	Charlene Trudeau:	most of what is on that spreadsheet, for example, I strongly agree with
[08:19]	tx Oh:	floaters outside the window might be good or bad, some people use the client fullscreen
[08:19]	Tillie Ariantho:	Charlene: it is. try to open 2 profiles. :P
[08:19]	Charlene Trudeau:	true
[08:19]	Uni Ninetails:	ooo giz a look we like drawings!
[08:19]	tx Oh:	yeah, scetches are cool
[08:19]	Alexandrea Fride:	or add an item to a group notice
[08:19]	tx Oh:	sketches
[08:19]	Esbee Linden:	Great. Ill figure out where to post those.
[08:19]	Jonathan Yap:	We need a jira helper here
[08:19]	Esbee Linden:	Maybe in our blog or on the Wiki
[08:20]	Esbee Linden:	Jonathan - Great idea. I'll add a Jira bot for next week's meeting.
[08:20]	Kopilo Hallard:	/me faints
[08:20]	TriloByte Zanzibar:	sidebar also needs to be able to resize. a lot of things don't quite fit and scrolling sub-windows is a huge pain
[08:20]	Morgaine Dinova:	Modality is the sticking point. Break the modality (which is mainly a property of the sidebar), and the core barrier to V2 takeup drops.
[08:20]	Alexandrea Fride:	+1
[08:20]	Kopilo Hallard:	a linden talking about actual UI customisation
[08:20]	Honour McMillan:	forgive me if this is a stupid question - but to add something to that spreadsheet - we send an email ?
[08:20]	Esbee Linden:	Honour - Not a stupid question at all.
[08:21]	Esbee Linden:	So here's how it works. Ultimately, I own the Snowstorm Product Backlog.
[08:21]	Serra Anansi:	/me has wondered the same
[08:21]	Esbee Linden:	So I'm the only person with edit rights.
[08:21]	Alexandrea Fride:	what also would be nice is to be able to quicly scroll down our inventory by just typing a letter (like 1.23 did)
[08:21]	Tillie Ariantho:	Fullscreen SL is good for those with fps issues, fullscreen gives some more.
[08:21]	Esbee Linden:	When you have an idea for the Viewer, let me know and we can chat about it. I'll share your ideas with the team and with other teams at the Lab.
[08:21]	tx Oh:	what about sort the inventory?
[08:21]	Honour McMillan:	kk thanks
[08:21]	Boroondas Gupte:	IIRC Robin partially fixed fullscreen
[08:22]	Tillie Ariantho:	Boroondas: but floating windows will break it again. ^^
[08:22]	Serra Anansi:	what does "let me know" mean? how should we communicate with you.. IM, note card.. email... telepathy? *jokes*
[08:22]	TriloByte Zanzibar:	it's also good for machinimists too, isn't it? they can record fullscreen more easily and wouldn't have to crop window frames
[08:22]	Charlene Trudeau:	same with friends list, Alexandrea, but I like that I can type in a last name and get everyone with that last name, where that didn't work the same way in 1.23, if its a choice between the two, that would be hard....
[08:22]	Esbee Linden:	And if the suggestion makes sense for the Viewer from a business perspective, doesn't conflict iwth something else a team is working on, and will add value to the Viewer, I'll add it to the spreadsheet.
[08:22]	Honour McMillan:	bribes?
[08:22]	Alexandrea Fride:	adding an option to disable group chat popups and or im popups sepertly in viewer2 , on bussy groups thats a bit annoying now :/
[08:22]	Esbee Linden:	If we decide not to add something, I'll let you know exactly why.
[08:23]	Esbee Linden:	As we've promised - all of this will happen in the open.
[08:23]	Tillie Ariantho:	Snapshot popup window "Save as..." is already a popup, and when you are in fullscreen mode, you are doomed. I have cursed a lot, Groupies might remember. ^^
[08:23]	TriloByte Zanzibar:	Good question Miss Serra... Esbee, what's your preferred method of hearing from us? Email? Notecard? Carrier pigeon?
[08:23]	Robin Cornelius:	Ah yea should get full screen added on to the backlog as a story somehow... but its currently on an internal LL branch *somewhere* and i've been asked to see if i can rebase that work on snowstorm anyway
[08:24]	Esbee Linden:	TExcellent question.
[08:24]	Esbee Linden:	If you want to reach me, the best way is email.
[08:24]	Esbee Linden:	My email address is just esbee@lindenlab.com
[08:24]	Serra Anansi:	/me is glad her question didn't get lost under the pile of posts
[08:24]	CPU Core:	i dont own a pidgeon
[08:24]	Serra Anansi:	thank you Esbee :)
[08:24]	Morgaine Dinova:	Esbee, taking this as an example -- http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-19009 -- (example only, not making the request, yet), it's very simple but it requires both viewer work and sim work. What would the process be for getting it on the Product Backlog, since at least two scrums would be involved, probably many more?
[08:25]	tx Oh:	when i do machinima then i just switch all UI off
[08:25]	tx Oh:	then i don't need to crop
[08:25]	Esbee Linden:	Morgaine - Great question. When there is both Viewer and Simulator work required for a backlog item, it will take a little longer for us to coordinate.
[08:26]	Esbee Linden:	Our team is mostly focused on Viewer side work.
[08:26]	Esbee Linden:	But there are Scrum teams in the Lab who have both simulator and Viewer resources.
[08:26]	Esbee Linden:	So if it makes sense for another team to take it, I'll be your advocate to get it on their backlog.
[08:26]	Morgaine Dinova:	Is there oversight, above the scrums, or do the product owners from the scrums just get together and talk about it?
[08:26]	Maggie Darwin:	I'm hoping the new JIRA eventually enables a defeect workflow for stuff where VWR vs SVC disctinction is unclear at first blush.
[08:27]	Esbee Linden:	I can't promise how quickly things will happen - but I'll keep you updated on what's happening.
[08:27]	tx Oh:	who has the 'viewer hat' on top? snowstorm team?
[08:27]	Esbee Linden:	Morgaine - There are a couple of ways we do this. First, there is a Scrum of Scrums.
[08:27]	Esbee Linden:	That still sounds funny to me.
[08:27]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hehe
[08:27]	Esbee Linden:	But the Scrum of Scrums is a place where Scrum teams can talk about their work and where there is overlap or if we're blocking each other.
[08:27]	Esbee Linden:	It's mainly a coordination meeting.
[08:28]	Maggie Darwin:	Oooh, Metascrum FTW.
[08:28]	Esbee Linden:	Product Owners and Business Leads are also talking constantly about their work.
[08:28]	Esbee Linden:	Someone asked about the Viewer Hat.
[08:28]	Morgaine Dinova:	Every scrum has a business lead? or are business leads outside the scrums?
[08:29]	Esbee Linden:	The Snowstorm Team doesn't "own" the Viewer. But we are the people closest to the Viewer.
[08:29]	Esbee Linden:	Both Q and I have been working with the Viewer since we started working at the Lab.
[08:29]	Morgaine Dinova:	Maggie: hehe, "metascrum", I like it :P
[08:29]	Uni Ninetails:	Oh Number 64 (client side AO) is marked high... nice.
[08:29]	Alexandrea Fride:	but please add server suport for that :p
[08:29]	Alexandrea Fride:	way emerald works only when inventory is fully loaded
[08:30]	Alexandrea Fride:	and works hardly at best
[08:30]	Serra Anansi:	esbee, I have been, with a few other people here, been very vocal about defending V2 and SnowStrom in public debate... I think the biggest thing people need to see is the action behind all this work. When will we see some live updates and will they be announces or just kinda shuffled in. I am to the point of needed to be able to point to some improvements in my arguments. Can you offer any insight to "the proof is in the pudding" so to speak?
[08:30]	Uni Ninetails:	I like random walks aswell in an ao.
[08:30]	Esbee Linden:	Morgaine - Every group in our organization has a business lead. And then each Scrum team should have a Product Owner who works with the Business lead.
[08:30]	Esbee Linden:	In some cases, the Business Lead and Product Owner are the same person (like me for Snowstorm).
[08:30]	Morgaine Dinova:	Tnx Esbee
[08:31]	Esbee Linden:	Serra - I agree completely. Our work is going to speak for the success of Snowstorm and what we're saying we're going to do.
[08:31]	Esbee Linden:	Our team is midway through our first real sprint. SO we should be demonstrating some results shortly.
[08:31]	TriloByte Zanzibar:	hopefully the pudding is viewer releases
[08:31]	Laddie Sutter:	well the building features and the inability to walk and talk are killers fo rme on v2
[08:31]	Esbee Linden:	Oz has been working on getting access to daily Development builds of the Viewer.
[08:32]	Esbee Linden:	And we'll be moving to a better cadence of Beta releases as well.
[08:32]	TriloByte Zanzibar:	2.1.2 by end of next week, with detacha-mo-sidebar etc
[08:32]	CG Linden:	http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/oz_viewer-development/latest.html
[08:32]	Esbee Linden:	Awesome, CG! Thanks!
[08:32]	CG Linden:	Bookmark that „ã°
[08:32]	Kopilo Hallard:	:D
[08:32]	Serra Anansi:	I want to also add that, SnowStorm pretty much saved me from leaving SL completely.. thank you for all your hard work and giving me faith in LL again
[08:32]	Second Life:	Second Life: Your region will restart in 5 minutes and 0 seconds for maintenance.
[08:32]	CG Linden:	actually...
[08:32]	Jonathan Yap:	oh no!
[08:32]	Laddie Sutter:	whispers: oh?
[08:32]	CG Linden:	s/oz/snowstorm/
[08:32]	Esbee Linden:	Thanks, Serra :)
[08:32]	Uni Ninetails:	nuuuu
[08:32]	Alexandrea Fride:	/NOOOOOOOOOO
[08:32]	Uni Ninetails:	LOL
[08:32]	Mojito Sorbet:	Speaking of reliability and uptime...
[08:32]	Alexandrea Fride:	NOOOOOOOOOO
[08:32]	Morgaine Dinova:	Oh sh*t, restart
[08:32]	Tillie Ariantho:	Can some linden delay that restart? :P
[08:32]	Alexandrea Fride:	ll delay it :p
[08:32]	TriloByte Zanzibar:	rolling restarts, run away!
[08:32]	Maggie Darwin:	Five minute warning. I figured this would happen.
[08:32]	Uni Ninetails:	Cheese it!
[08:33]	Esbee Linden:	Gah!
[08:33]	Laddie Sutter:	lol
[08:33]	Charlene Trudeau:	lol
[08:33]	CG Linden:	heh, lil at work „ã°
[08:33]	Esbee Linden:	My first OH. I knew this had to happen! :)
[08:33]	Nyx Linden:	real quick: my office hour will only be half an hour today
[08:33]	Mojito Sorbet:	By the way, restarts count as a crash, form the user's point of view
[08:33]	Charlene Trudeau:	what time, Nyx?
[08:33]	Nyx Linden:	noon to noon-thirty :)
[08:33]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	we could go to hippo hollar
[08:33]	Maggie Darwin:	We can move to Harrington 128,128 if you like.
[08:33]	Gentle Heron:	Some of us didn't get a warning. What's up?
[08:33]	Maggie Darwin:	restart in progress
[08:33]	Jonathan Yap:	Someone had better decide a new place quickly
[08:33]	Ellla McMahon:	Q's place at http://slurl.com/secondlife/Longfellow/220/168/25  ??
[08:34]	Tillie Ariantho:	Gentle: Surprise for you. ^^
[08:34]	CG Linden:	my place? :_)
[08:34]	Aimee Linden:	shouldn't that be http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/snowstorm_viewer-development/latest.html now?
[08:34]	Maggie Darwin:	Call it, Esbee, and paster slurl
[08:34]	Esbee Linden:	Let's go to Longfellow.
[08:34]	CG Linden:	yes, Aimee...
[08:34]	tx Oh:	see you at Q's place
[08:34]	Aimee Linden:	(repo name changed from oz to snowstorm)
[08:34]	Morgaine Dinova:	KK, TP to Q's. Want a TP, Gentle Heron?
[08:34]	CG Linden:	/me has an arena „ã°
[08:34]	Second Life:	Second Life: Your region will restart in 3 minutes and 0 seconds for maintenance.
[08:34]	Boroondas Gupte:	Longfellow it is, then
[08:34]	Gentle Heron:	Please Morgaine.
[08:34]	Morgaine Dinova:	kk
[08:34]	Esbee Linden:	See you there!
[08:35]	Esbee Linden:	Ping me if you need a TP!
[08:35]	Alexandrea Fride:	me please
[08:35]	Tillie Ariantho:	Morgaine, your sword always rezzes first.
[08:35]	Laddie Sutter:	am i rezed?
[08:35]	Uni Ninetails:	yup
[08:35]	Tillie Ariantho:	Is the sword the avatar and you the attachment? ;P
[08:36]	Alexandrea Fride:	cool my first forced tp by a linden :D
[08:36]	Morgaine Dinova:	/mw waves @ Gentle
[08:36]	Laddie Sutter:	yeeaa,. check this sexayness out
[08:36]	Esbee Linden:	:)
[08:36]	Alexandrea Fride:	thanks Esbee •‿•
[08:36]	Esbee Linden:	That forced TP still freaks me out. :)
[08:36]	Alexandrea Fride:	ℒℴℒ
[08:36]	Laddie Sutter:	it;s a godsend
[08:36]	Laddie Sutter:	need rlv in the new viewer
[08:36]	Uni Ninetails:	says you mr rlv tp :P~
[08:36]	Sit anywhere:	On
[08:37]	Laddie Sutter:	hee hee hee
[08:37]	Tillie Ariantho:	^^
[08:37]	Alexandrea Fride:	while where waiting for others , could i get your bear Esbee? •‿•
[08:37]	Laddie Sutter:	yes miss i'll get things you tp me and i'll rez
[08:37]	Uni Ninetails:	yeah hang on im aligning some prims... VWWOOOSSHH tpd
[08:39]	memory free	(24126 Byte).
[08:39]	I Heart	Stripes Belt (Pelvis): Starting up scripts, loading settings.
[08:39]	I Heart	Stripes Belt (Pelvis): Startup complete.
[08:40]	Esbee Linden:	whew. Power cut at my apartment.
[08:40]	Esbee Linden:	Sorry about that!
[08:40]	Kopilo Hallard:	x.x
[08:40]	Laddie Sutter:	lol
[08:40]	Aimee Linden:	RL region restart
[08:40]	Sit anywhere:	Off
[08:40]	Morgaine Dinova:	Haha
[08:40]	Ardy Lay:	Hehe
[08:40]	Alexandrea Fride:	now hoping this region dont restart :p
[08:40]	Uni Ninetails:	tsk tsk no battery backup?
[08:41]	Boroondas Gupte:	shouts: Hey poeple over at Q's, we're over here to your East-South-East
[08:41]	Uni Ninetails:	i mean i only had to hoof a 100hp diesel generator up the stairs into my office...
[08:41]	Esbee Linden:	No battery backup here. :( I should pick one up.
[08:41]	Serra Anansi:	/me hopes you have it vented
[08:41]	Laddie Sutter:	easy work,
[08:41]	Jonathan Yap:	Before we resume -- Esbee, will you be posting chat logs of your meetings to your wiki page?
[08:41]	Aimee Linden:	(interesting, double-click tp works on people's heads, not just the ground)
[08:42]	Laddie Sutter:	lol
[08:42]	Uni Ninetails:	Serra why do you think im nuts i huff diesel fumes all day XD
[08:42]	Boroondas Gupte:	:-P
[08:42]	Esbee Linden:	wow Aimee..lol
[08:42]	Alexandrea Fride:	ℒℴℒ Aimee :p
[08:42]	Morgaine Dinova:	Holler at Nyx to join us :P
[08:42]	CG Linden:	It might get rolled, still the old version here
[08:42]	Second Life:	Items successfully shared.
[08:42]	Ann Otoole:	now that half the time is gone... :P
[08:42]	Serra Anansi:	/me makes note to adjust someones behavior later
[08:42]	Laddie Sutter:	venting is for weenies breath that exaust and get strong
[08:42]	Jonathan Yap:	Esbee, I can ge you a few examples to look at if that would help
[08:43]	Uni Ninetails:	I am not a carburetta you dont ajust my mixture. -.-
[08:43]	Esbee Linden:	Sure Jonathan. That would be great.
[08:43]	Alexandrea Fride:	cute bear :p
[08:43]	Esbee Linden:	And yes, we'll post the chat logs on the Wiki.
[08:43]	Esbee Linden:	/me checks to make sure the crash didn't kill this chat log. :(
[08:43]	Laddie Sutter:	and now it; s a matter of public record
[08:43]	Aimee Linden:	in case people missed it in the relocation, the link to bookmark for the latest viewer-development build is http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/snowstorm_viewer-development/latest.html
[08:43]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	esbee i have it if you lost it
[08:44]	Esbee Linden:	Thanks for posting that Aimee.
[08:44]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	/me has datestamped log names :p
[08:44]	Esbee Linden:	Thanks Wolfpup. It looks like I have the chat log. Whew.
[08:44]	Opensource Obscure:	and that's updated weekly .. usually . correct ?
[08:44]	Aimee Linden:	that's the live as it happens one
[08:45]	Aimee Linden:	use at your own risk :)
[08:45]	Esbee Linden:	:)
[08:45]	Jonathan Yap:	I was looking at the commit history -- it is a bit too bad one cannot see the original author of a repro
[08:45]	Alexandrea Fride:	craches for me (problem with llkdu)
[08:45]	XLR8RRICK Hudson:	we may get restarted here too Second Life Server 1.40.4.207155
[08:45]	Ardy Lay:	Esbee, will things comitted to Snowglobe, like SNOW-652-AppUriChatLimit make it to V2 or is more attention needed to make that happen?
[08:45]	Jonathan Yap:	Sometimes it is helpful to see, say, what Robin has been changing
[08:45]	Esbee Linden:	Ardy. I'll have to take a look at SNOW-652 as I'm not familiar with it.
[08:46]	Esbee Linden:	We are reviewing all the Snowglobe stuff to see what we want to import into V2.
[08:46]	Morgaine Dinova:	Aimee: I gave up walking here long ago, now just double-click TP from place to place. I stopped learning the V2 UI when first released because no doubleclick TP :-)
[08:46]	Boroondas Gupte:	Esbee, I've collected and applied (ported/modified where necessairy) all Snowglobe changsets and patches from jira I need to get viewer-development to build standalone and out-of-source on 64bit linux. How do I proceed now?
[08:46]	Tillie Ariantho:	You want to import all of it. :P
[08:46]	Alexandrea Fride:	ℒℴℒ
[08:46]	Nyx Linden:	/me notes double click to TP is on the snowstorm backlog :)
[08:46]	Alexandrea Fride:	o/
[08:46]	Morgaine Dinova:	Yep Nyx, noticed o/
[08:47]	TriloByte Zanzibar:	yeah, snowglobe 1.3 had a few cool things that never made it to 2.x... double click to teleport, right click on mini-map dots to pull up profile, etc
[08:47]	Esbee Linden:	Boroondas - Oz has posted the integration process on the public wiki. There should be step by step instruction there. If you run into trouble, I'd recommend shooting him an email.
[08:47]	Jonathan Yap:	Maybe to avoid naming confusion one of those backlog names could be changed to queue?
[08:47]	Laddie Sutter:	temp uploads
[08:47]	Boroondas Gupte:	well, he told me to bring it up at this OH :-P
[08:47]	Esbee Linden:	Heh, grrrr Oz :)
[08:47]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	Jonathan you can data mine the files to see who has dine what
[08:47]	Uni Ninetails:	estate windlight control ui *ducks
[08:48]	Alexandrea Fride:	rofl
[08:48]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	/me Learned that in the past couple of days
[08:48]	Esbee Linden:	Boroondas - I'll chat with Oz today and get back to you. We probably just need to organize a review. Maybe Oz would like me to do that.
[08:48]	TriloByte Zanzibar:	yes, windlight presets kicking in when you hit an estate would be awesome
[08:48]	Boroondas Gupte:	ic
[08:48]	Morgaine Dinova:	How about "Sprint List" and "Product Backlog"?
[08:48]	tx Oh:	/me sighs
[08:48]	Esbee Linden:	He's been swamped the last day or so with Emerald stuff. So we haven't had a chance to talk.
[08:48]	tx Oh:	or product agenda and sprint backlog
[08:48]	Alexandrea Fride:	that was a future since windlight ever came life (wel it was a promes :p)
[08:48]	Esbee Linden:	Sprint List and Product Backlog is a good idea.
[08:49]	Opensource Obscure:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-7677 by the way even if i guess this is offtopic now?
[08:49]	TriloByte Zanzibar:	to avoid confusion, call one the verizon backlog
[08:49]	Esbee Linden:	The names I've used are the traditional Scrum names, but I'm happy to change them.
[08:49]	Morgaine Dinova:	LOL Trilo
[08:49]	Morgaine Dinova:	Any name is fine, but same word in both is not
[08:49]	TriloByte Zanzibar:	OS, you're brilliant
[08:49]	Esbee Linden:	We have been talking about Windlight Estate Settings for some time.
[08:50]	Nyx Linden:	they're both backlogs though :)
[08:50]	Jonathan Yap:	Backlog has a bit of a negative connotation sound to it, like you are in a traffic jam :)
[08:50]	TriloByte Zanzibar:	seems like an easy thing to do, but would be a huge gain in immersion
[08:50]	Esbee Linden:	There was a team internally working on it, and we've also had an OS developer express an interest.
[08:50]	Esbee Linden:	So you should be hearing more soon.
[08:50]	Morgaine Dinova:	/me hands Nyx some sugar solution instead of WD40
[08:50]	Opensource Obscure:	o.o
[08:50]	tx Oh:	wuld be nice to keep windlight conmpatible with lightshare
[08:50]	TriloByte Zanzibar:	hooray
[08:50]	Alexandrea Fride:	fresh oil would be bether then suger :p
[08:50]	Nyx Linden:	>.>
[08:51]	Nyx Linden:	"short term todo list" and "long term todo list" perhaps?
[08:51]	Esbee Linden:	Woah. A kitesurfer just drifted dangerously close to my window here!
[08:51]	Boroondas Gupte:	Could fields be added to jira to indicate whether an issue is on product backlogs/scrum lists and if so which ones?
[08:51]	Honour McMillan:	now vs later?
[08:51]	Esbee Linden:	Boroondas - we could tag things in Jira for specific sprints.
[08:52]	Esbee Linden:	However, we don't know yet what we'll work on in the next sprint. That's normally determined at our Sprint planning meeting.
[08:52]	Boroondas Gupte:	Yes, I mean when editing the backlogs or lists.
[08:52]	Esbee Linden:	If you have things you'd like to see us focus on though in a specific sprint, you can ping me too!
[08:52]	Tillie Ariantho:	my jiras always got moved to "mysterious future" or something. :P
[08:53]	Esbee Linden:	The Snowstorm Team aims to make the future a little less mysterious :)
[08:53]	tx Oh:	please don't discuss this lists name now
[08:53]	Tillie Ariantho:	:D
[08:53]	Aimee Linden:	and a little more now
[08:53]	Morgaine Dinova:	/me nods at Esbee. No need to assign future work to sprints unless there is a time coordination issue among teams.
[08:53]	Esbee Linden:	+1 Morgaine
[08:54]	Boroondas Gupte:	/me nods
[08:54]	tx Oh:	who puts things on the scrum backlog? isn't it the product manager?
[08:54]	Esbee Linden:	tx - yes, that's me! :)
[08:55]	Jonathan Yap:	Esbee, I dropped you a notecard with a few sample oh log links
[08:55]	Esbee Linden:	Thanks Jonathan.
[08:55]	tx Oh:	but when you need to ask Q and Oz if it is ok to put something on the scrum backlist, they preselct what goes in the list?
[08:56]	Esbee Linden:	I discuss anything going into our backlog with my team.
[08:57]	Esbee Linden:	I also discuss things with our UX group, and other SMEs at the Lab.
[08:57]	Esbee Linden:	Sometimes things belong on other team's backlogs, so the more I socialize backlog items, the better.
[08:57]	Boroondas Gupte:	"SME"?
[08:57]	Esbee Linden:	Sorry, Subject Matter Expert.
[08:57]	tx Oh:	isn't it doubled then? do a discussion what goes in the scrum backlog and then another discussion what get on the sprint backlog?
[08:58]	Gentle Heron:	SME = subject matter expert (?)
[08:58]	Esbee Linden:	Oh, I see what you're asking. I'll restate. Before I add anythign to the team backlog, I discuss it with Q and Oz (the other Snowstorm Leads) and also talk to other Product Owners and Biz Leads to make sure it's not going to block a team or duplicate work.
[08:59]	Esbee Linden:	For the Sprint Backlog, we add items to our list that we plan commit to working on during a current sprint.
[08:59]	Esbee Linden:	That happens during our Sprint Planning Meeting.
[08:59]	tx Oh:	ok, that means Q and Oz are scrum product leaders of other scrum teams
[08:59]	tx Oh:	i understand
[08:59]	Morgaine Dinova:	Since the most important job (IMO) is resolving the UI impasse, could you help us understand who is involved in accepting/rejecting changes? Who is the main barrier to making V2 usable for V1 users?
[08:59]	TriloByte Zanzibar:	yeah, I noticed something I submitted appears to have been combined with something similar... another item i sent in was probably handed to another team
[09:00]	Esbee Linden:	No, actually Q and Oz are the other leads for Snowstorm. Q is the tech and team lead and Oz is the open source lead. It's important that have a heads up when I'm adding things to our team backlog.
[09:00]	Esbee Linden:	We're a tight knit team so it's usually a quick discussion :)
[09:00]	Esbee Linden:	Okay, we've hit 9am!
[09:01]	Esbee Linden:	I need to psych myself up to begin my commute to the office :)
[09:01]	Morgaine Dinova:	I assume UI changes involve more than just the Snowstorm team though. If it's this team only, that's great!
[09:01]	Ann Otoole:	have a happy rolling restart day everyone :P
[09:01]	Esbee Linden:	Thank you everyone for coming!
[09:01]	Esbee Linden:	Sorry about the relocation half way through!
[09:01]	Uni Ninetails:	ty hehe
[09:01]	Opensource Obscure:	thanks Esbee
[09:01]	tx Oh:	thanks for having us
[09:01]	Esbee Linden:	I'll post the chat logs today.
[09:01]	Laddie Sutter:	nice to be here
[09:01]	Hitomi Tiponi:	thanks Esbee
[09:01]	Esbee Linden:	And I look forward to many, many more of these meetings.
[09:01]	TriloByte Zanzibar:	thanks
[09:01]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	tc esbee and see you in the morning
[09:02]	Esbee Linden:	And again, if you have thoughts or ideas, don't hesitate to contact me!
[09:02]	Alexandrea Fride:	tc Evryone was a good chat •‿•
[09:02]	Esbee Linden:	Cheers all!
[09:02]	Tillie Ariantho:	We'll get more technical next time. :P
[09:02]	Esbee Linden:	:)
[09:02]	tx Oh:	it would be nice if you could update the scrum backlog also on a weekly basis, i didn't see new adds there
[09:02]	Boroondas Gupte:	Esbee, is it ok to CC opensource-dev when doing so?
[09:02]	Alexandrea Fride:	not bad for your fist time Esbee :p
[09:02]	Jonathan Yap:	Esbee, you need to update the Office Hour wiki for this meeting (maybe you can just edit up the one for Q)
[09:02]	Esbee Linden:	Will do! Thanks all! (And Boroondas - absolutely, you can CC opensource-dev!)
[09:03]	Esbee Linden:	Cheerio!

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