User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2008-11-06

[14:55]	Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/Hippotropolis/246/15/25
[14:56]	McCabe Maxsted:	ahoy there :)
[14:56]	Geneko Nemeth:	Squittel!
[14:56]	Squirrel Wood:	Be Affeared! http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/political-pictures-sarah-palin-mayans.jpg
[14:57]	McCabe Maxsted:	hahahaha
[14:57]	McCabe Maxsted:	have you seen the latest vid circling about how she didnt' know africa was a continent?
[14:57]	Squirrel Wood:	nope
[14:57]	Squirrel Wood:	but I did not expect any less of her
[14:58]	Squirrel Wood:	she's too stupid to be a politician
[14:58]	McCabe Maxsted:	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWZHTJsR4Bc
[14:58]	Squirrel Wood:	!hug malbers
[14:59]	McCabe Maxsted:	aoy aimee, malbers :)
[14:59]	Malbers Linden:	Hi evreyone
[14:59]	Aimee Trescothick:	hey :)
[14:59]	Pier Jaecies:	helllo
[14:59]	Geneko Nemeth:	You've been... bigger.
[14:59]	Squirrel Wood:	Today is Hug-A-Malbers day!
[14:59]	Geneko Nemeth:	372 textures to go...
[14:59]	McCabe Maxsted grins
[15:00]	Pounce: Usage:	Face your target and Say '/pounce [person's name]' or '/1pounce [person's name]'
[15:00]	Malbers Linden:	today is hug-a-malbers day?
[15:00]	Squirrel Wood:	Yes
[15:00]	Aimee Trescothick:	who knew?
[15:00]	McCabe Maxsted:	congrats malbers (watch your nuts)
[15:00]	Aimee Trescothick:	Second Life has textures?
[15:00]	Malbers Linden:	no doubt
[15:00]	Geneko Nemeth wishes to pounce on Malbers, but knowing that it will break the AO...
[15:00]	McCabe Maxsted waves to jacek. Ahoy!
[15:00]	Jacek Antonelli:	Ahoy hoy
[15:00]	McCabe Maxsted:	she awaketh :D
[15:01]	Aimee Trescothick:	hey :)
[15:01]	Jacek Antonelli rubs eyes sleepily
[15:01]	Aimee Trescothick:	aww
[15:01]	McCabe Maxsted:	nap well?
[15:01]	Jacek Antonelli:	Well enough, yeah
[15:01]	McCabe Maxsted:	squirrel was just passing out more scary palin 2012 links...
[15:01]	Jacek Antonelli:	Oh dear
[15:01]	Squirrel Wood:	http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/political-pictures-sarah-palin-mayans.jpg ?
[15:02]	Avatar Genira:	hi everyone
[15:02]	McCabe Maxsted:	ahoy avatar :)
[15:02]	Malbers Linden:	Charlette isn't quite herself today
[15:02]	Jacek Antonelli:	hehehe
[15:02]	Squirrel Wood:	not quite, no
[15:03]	Avatar Genira:	please exuce the alt, but for continuity I'll relay chat via an object Charlette Proto
[15:03]	Charlette Proto:	don't laugh
[15:03]	Geneko Nemeth:	... you don't need to.
[15:03]	McCabe Maxsted:	alt! alt! *points*
[15:03]	Geneko Nemeth:	We do identity switcherroos in #twokinds a lot.
[15:03]	Charlette Proto:	Ithought it may be easier to deal with
[15:03]	Squirrel Wood:	Yes. Contrary to popular belief, alts DO exist ^^
[15:04]	Charlette Proto:	hehe I have a few
[15:04]	McCabe Maxsted:	she's a witch! burn her!
[15:04]	Geneko Nemeth:	I don't have any.
[15:04]	Charlette Proto:	you don't get suspended then
[15:04]	Malbers Linden:	I'm just waiting until ~5 after the hour to start...
[15:04]	Squirrel Wood:	your mike is open Malbers
[15:05]	Geneko Nemeth:	C'mon, just come out as A. Genira.
[15:05]	Malbers Linden:	thanks Squirrel
[15:05]	Squirrel Wood:	^^
[15:05]	Geneko Nemeth:	Saves you typing.
[15:05]	Charlette Proto:	wise move, what is the subject today (I forgot)
[15:05]	Malbers Linden:	lucky for all of you it wasn't in front of my mouth
[15:05]	Geneko Nemeth:	HUDs ans LL's new hire.
[15:05]	McCabe Maxsted needs to login to his alt more. The remembering alt login patch is in Imprudence, just need to fix a few of the bugs in it :D
[15:05]	Charlette Proto:	saves only two characters
[15:06]	Squirrel Wood:	Your internet access is going to get suspended
[15:06]	Avatar Genira:	but if you insist
[15:06]	Geneko Nemeth:	New hire being a user experience company named Big Spaceship, which has a pretty nice protifilo.
[15:06]	Squirrel Wood:	The Internet Service Provider Consorcium was made to protect the rights of software authors, artists. ??? We conduct regular wiretapping on our networks, to monitor criminal acts.
[15:06]	Geneko Nemeth:	Although, the same can't be said on their attention on accessiblity.
[15:06]	Malbers Linden:	Yes, Geneko is correct -- HUDs and Big Spaceship
[15:06]	Squirrel Wood:	yumyum spam ^^
[15:06]	McCabe Maxsted:	will ben be stopping by?
[15:06]	Crane Zenovka:	Hi Benjamin
[15:06]	McCabe Maxsted:	aha, speak of the devil :)
[15:06]	Malbers Linden:	speak of the devil....
[15:06]	Squirrel Wood:	Hellos Benjamin!
[15:06]	McCabe Maxsted:	ahoy ben! *waves*
[15:07]	Jacek Antonelli:	Ahoy Ben!
[15:07]	McCabe Maxsted:	(jinx on malbers)
[15:07]	Geneko Nemeth:	People seems to like to poke fun on their full-Flash website.
[15:07]	Benjamin Linden:	oh now I'm the devil
[15:07]	Squirrel Wood:	you have been promoted? ;)
[15:07]	Benjamin Linden:	lol
[15:07]	Malbers Linden:	large blue staticy devil
[15:07]	Benjamin Linden:	hi all
[15:07]	Squirrel Wood:	Hellos ^^
[15:07]	Crane Zenovka:	lol =)
[15:07]	Charlette Proto:	hi Ben I'll be Avatar just for today
[15:07]	Benjamin Linden:	sorry I'm late
[15:07]	Theodore Folsom:	whoops ... Hullows @ll
[15:07]	Theo says:	Get your Squirrelly Hand off my nosey.
[15:07]	Benjamin Linden:	but it wouldn't be me if I wasn't!
[15:07]	Benjamin Linden:	:-)
[15:08]	Malbers Linden:	I know that I'm really a n00b when it comes to HUDs
[15:08]	Malbers Linden:	I don't really use any
[15:08]	Squirrel Wood:	You are not late. You are just in time ^^
[15:08]	Geneko Nemeth:	My poinion that more people need to come here still holds.
[15:08]	McCabe Maxsted:	need to pick up a mystitool malbers
[15:08]	Malbers Linden:	what kinds of functionality are best suited for HUDs?
[15:08]	Male Equine - Tail: Theodore Folsom Get your hand off my tail or you will make it dirty!
[15:09]	Squirrel Wood:	usually information displays, avatar controls and the like
[15:09]	Malbers Linden:	what does the mystitool do?
[15:09]	McCabe Maxsted uses his hud for radar
[15:09]	Avatar Genira:	I hate the way huds have such inconsistent interfaces and visual presentation
[15:09]	Geneko Nemeth does not use HUDs.
[15:09]	Malbers Linden:	I've had HUDs for av control -- usually special effects
[15:09]	Aimee Trescothick:	radar most common, though that would be nicer in the client
[15:09]	Geneko Nemeth:	They take up screen space and hard to move.
[15:09]	Avatar Genira:	hugs kisses etc
[15:09]	Squirrel Wood:	Mystitool: http://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=120285
[15:09]	Malbers Linden:	radar for combat systems?
[15:09]	McCabe Maxsted:	most huds I've seen do radar or combat controls
[15:10]	McCabe Maxsted:	no, just for detecting nearby avs
[15:10]	McCabe Maxsted:	who's in chat range, etc
[15:10]	Geneko Nemeth:	Detecting griefers...
[15:10]	Aimee Trescothick:	would be nice to see HUDs get used more for augmented (virtual) reality
[15:10]	McCabe Maxsted:	you're limited to 16 due to llsensor, but it's so handy
[15:10]	McCabe Maxsted:	wouldn't recommend anyone use SL™ without some form of radar
[15:10]	Malbers Linden:	oh, so radar with extra info -- more than the mini-map?
[15:10]	Geneko Nemeth:	For example, names.
[15:10]	Jacek Antonelli:	Some sailboats use a HUD to displaying wind direction, speed, etc., and offer buttons for raising and lowering the sails and so forth
[15:10]	Avatar Genira:	I have a griefing/combat hug with the biggest screen realestate waste - the Quantom Core
[15:11]	Aimee Trescothick:	C:SI does a nice thing when selecting someone to challenge to a dual by placing a box round the avatar in the world view that you can click to select them
[15:11]	Geneko Nemeth:	Avatar control should go without saying.
[15:11]	McCabe Maxsted:	I pass out the crystal gadget radar to noobs; they never know who's in chat distance and who isn't
[15:11]	Avatar Genira:	only use it to read the User Support IM chat
[15:11]	Malbers Linden wants to see Chareltte's combat hug
[15:11]	Squirrel Wood:	I have seen an attempt to create a HUD that would map avatar positions from 3D to 2D, take the camera position and stuff into account to 'draw' boxes around avatars
[15:11]	Geneko Nemeth:	Whoa, how cute!
[15:11]	Geneko Nemeth:	Hmm,,, a linden?
[15:11]	Avatar Genira:	hehe notworth the money otherwise
[15:12]	Geneko Nemeth:	And hiding behind a console... >_>
[15:12]	Aimee Trescothick:	Squirrel, that's what C:SI does
[15:12]	Jacek Antonelli:	Interesting
[15:12]	Chaley May:	I used a hud to make a snapshot to use as a sculptie :)
[15:12]	Jacek Antonelli:	How does that work, Chaley?
[15:12]	Malbers Linden:	any HUDs that would be especially useful for new residents?
[15:13]	Chaley May:	it didnt work well too blurry
[15:13]	Malbers Linden:	maybe the radar ones?
[15:13]	Avatar Genira:	my opinion is that a standard interface for HUD building should be developed
[15:13]	Avatar Genira:	there used to be one for noobs
[15:13]	Avatar Genira:	it was badly received
[15:13]	Malbers Linden:	yes, I heard (back there somewhere) that HUD UIs are too disparate
[15:13]	Theodore Folsom:	there was that new users guide once for newbies ... was available on the OIs .... was helpful imho
[15:13]	Theodore Folsom:	was a HUD*
[15:13]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yeah, helpful when it worked...
[15:13]	Geneko Nemeth:	Gesture controls that intergrate with the client, oh that would be sweet~
[15:13]	McCabe Maxsted nods. I'd throw a radar one in by default
[15:14]	Chaley May:	i like making HUDs
[15:14]	Avatar Genira:	but I think a noob HUD is a better way to learn than any notecard system would
[15:14]	Geneko Nemeth:	Yeah, I was pretty confused by that Orientation HUD too (among other problems like lag connection across the pacific).
[15:14]	Theodore Folsom:	agreed Avatar
[15:14]	McCabe Maxsted:	hud interfaces would be so much nicer if we had that text-prim idea that was brought up a while back ;)
[15:14]	Avatar Genira:	radar and a few poses, maybe basic AO
[15:14]	Jacek Antonelli:	I have my AO as a HUD. It has buttons for turning on and off, for using a sit pose, etc. Based on ZHAO-II
[15:15]	Squirrel Wood:	HUDs that use a mysql database in the background could be used to provide information for players... like, cool places to visit and such
[15:15]	Avatar Genira:	above att access to help notes
[15:15]	Geneko Nemeth:	These, though, really should be built into the viewer by default.
[15:15]	Avatar Genira:	SQL backend would be great - up to date
[15:15]	McCabe Maxsted would rather see aos become built into the client, but yeah, that's another *really* common. AOs are a right of passage in SL™ culture
[15:15]	Jacek Antonelli:	Another interesting HUD is the FilterCam. It puts image overlays on your screen for special effects when taking pictures. There's one that's white with a picture of an iPhone, but the iPhone screen is transparent so you can see the scene through it, hehe
[15:15]	McCabe Maxsted:	"you have stepped up from a noob! here's a new walk"
[15:16]	Avatar Genira:	but a HUD is a way to keep it in one place and detach when no longer used
[15:16]	Malbers Linden:	so I've heard the notion of a "tourguide" HUD for new residents, yes?
[15:16]	Avatar Genira:	that sounds like a gimmick
[15:16]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yep, Malbers
[15:16]	Squirrel Wood:	I may have such a "tourguide" hud
[15:17]	McCabe Maxsted nods
[15:17]	Avatar Genira:	that is what I was remembering (main account)
[15:17]	Squirrel Wood:	basically its a pda-style image viewer
[15:17]	Theodore Folsom:	i found it
[15:17]	Malbers Linden:	is that better as a HUD or just built into the Viewer in other ways?
[15:17]	Theodore Folsom:	i have one
[15:17]	Aimee Trescothick:	thing with tour type things is that they need to be actively kept up to date
[15:17]	Theodore Folsom:	who needs?
[15:17]	Avatar Genira:	for noobs I think a video would be the best way to introduce SL like games do
[15:17]	Geneko Nemeth:	It's best if HUDs can run on the Viewer, makes things faster.
[15:17]	Aimee Trescothick:	they easily get out of date
[15:18]	Avatar Genira:	know the video is a problem
[15:18]	McCabe Maxsted:	you mean like a video intro?
[15:18]	Avatar Genira:	yes like all the games
[15:18]	Geneko Nemeth:	Not all the games...
[15:18]	Chaley May:	would be more fun if the tour guide was a well made robot they could follow in world
[15:18]	Avatar Genira:	this is what it is this is what you are this is what you do
[15:18]	Geneko Nemeth:	Navi? Is that you?
[15:18]	McCabe Maxsted:	interesting idea. Good excuse to put a guitar solo into the viewer XD
[15:18]	Avatar Genira:	hehe
[15:18]	Aimee Trescothick:	heh, virtual tourguide rendered as an avatar only they can see
[15:18]	Aimee Trescothick:	invisible friend lol
[15:19]	Jacek Antonelli:	hah
[15:19]	Geneko Nemeth:	Although I wouldn't say no to the Navi idea.
[15:19]	russ Sorbet:	sorry mp
[15:19]	russ Sorbet:	sorry no
[15:19]	Avatar Genira:	my own mentor to torture
[15:19]	Geneko Nemeth:	Invisible friend FTW~
[15:19]	Avatar Genira:	SL Mental Griefer
[15:19]	Geneko Nemeth:	Being able to contact a mentor through the Navi. Would also be an interesting idea.
[15:19]	Geneko Nemeth:	Ohmygosh. It grew big.
[15:20]	Malbers Linden sees that Squirrel is using his vast knowledge of SL to rez things sneakily
[15:20]	McCabe Maxsted:	haha. Noobhelper Linden says "I see that you've logged into SL. Would you like to create a spreadsheet?"
[15:20]	Jacek Antonelli:	hahahaha
[15:20]	Aimee Trescothick:	:D
[15:20]	Geneko Nemeth:	Nothing says that you can rez stuff on another parcel and drag it in the client strings... >_<
[15:21]	Aimee Trescothick:	you could have different ones for different entry channels
[15:21]	Malbers Linden:	are there HUDs that are well tuned for Builders?
[15:21]	Geneko Nemeth:	Or let people make their own.
[15:21]	Avatar Genira:	I had a parrot freestandin here last week, great pictures
[15:21]	Squirrel Wood points out that this is a hud that only uses a few key control elements
[15:21]	Aimee Trescothick:	"FightClub Linden breaks your legs and says "NOW learn to walk""
[15:21]	Avatar Genira:	we need menus for HUDs like the rest of the viewer
[15:22]	Avatar Genira:	instead of dialogs
[15:22]	Squirrel Wood:	I think there are HUDs for builders that let you rez differently shaped prims
[15:22]	Jacek Antonelli:	I've heard of a good builder tool in a HUD, Prim.Docker?
[15:22]	Jacek Antonelli:	Or something like that.
[15:22]	Aimee Trescothick:	yeah, a lot of people use Prim.Docker for building
[15:22]	McCabe Maxsted nods. I've used that from time to time, it's not bad
[15:22]	Jacek Antonelli:	It has a lot of texture and prim alignment options. But it requires you to put a script in every prim you're building with
[15:22]	Aimee Trescothick:	I generally find it quicker to just do things by numbers
[15:23]	Aimee Trescothick:	than keep dropping scripts around
[15:23]	Avatar Genira:	that is bad news if it requires scripts, unless it wipes them
[15:23]	Jacek Antonelli:	Also, there's a HUD that will rez megaprims for you at your current location, since they can be hard to place.
[15:23]	Aimee Trescothick:	it does wipe them
[15:23]	McCabe Maxsted:	I'd really like to see stuff like tutorials put into huds rather than built into the viewer, as they could show wrong information when people travel around the open grid
[15:24]	Avatar Genira:	good that is essential (too many scripts running already)
[15:24]	Aimee Trescothick:	yup the megaprim searching HUD "Salt is handy
[15:24]	Benjamin Linden:	what do you mean McCabe?
[15:24]	McCabe Maxsted:	ooh have you used the salt hud? it searches a database of all the megaprims made
[15:24]	Avatar Genira:	McCabe is right
[15:24]	Aimee Trescothick:	gives you the closest sizes it can find to what you ask for
[15:24]	McCabe Maxsted:	well, if you have NUE stuff built into a viewer, and someone's logging into say litesim, it'll be inaccurate
[15:24]	Avatar Genira:	it should stand out from the interface and be optional
[15:25]	Avatar Genira:	get new different HUDs inworld
[15:25]	Geneko Nemeth:	That's why we have [APP_NAME] all over in the SL client.
[15:25]	Geneko Nemeth:	Unfortunately there still are a lot of strings that involves SL or Lindens...
[15:26]	McCabe Maxsted:	well, there's already been a "balkanization" of viewers; all the new grids that are starting to pop up are releasing their own viewers
[15:26]	Benjamin Linden:	so you're saying use huds so they can be customized for the particular server they're on?
[15:26]	Jacek Antonelli:	That's it, Ben
[15:26]	McCabe Maxsted nods. That'd be nice
[15:26]	Geneko Nemeth:	It does make more sense: normally people won't think that "I want to connect to Second Life" yet,
[15:27]	Geneko Nemeth:	instead just "I want to use Second Life[application]".
[15:27]	Avatar Genira:	HUDs are a very good way to customise the viewer inworld
[15:27]	Geneko Nemeth:	Although all people going to alt grids know the distinction well already.
[15:27]	Squirrel Wood:	Aye.
[15:27]	Avatar Genira:	the Cool viewer lets you select the grid
[15:28]	Squirrel Wood:	HUDs allow for dynamic change that quickly adapts to new stuff whereas the UI itself is somewhat static
[15:28]	Avatar Genira:	Cool patch I should have said (old interface however)
[15:28]	Benjamin Linden:	how does the server you're on affect tutorial content?
[15:28]	McCabe Maxsted:	new people won't know though, especially when the agent domain is up and we can tp around to other grids; you want your viewer to be able to adapt to that
[15:28]	Geneko Nemeth:	For example, on GenekoSim there won't be any Lindens,
[15:28]	Avatar Genira:	hehe
[15:28]	Benjamin Linden:	the tutorial in the current viewer actually references a web site
[15:28]	Benjamin Linden:	which can be easily updated
[15:28]	Geneko Nemeth:	Instead administrators will be called Kittens.
[15:29]	Avatar Genira:	and avatars would all be animals
[15:29]	Geneko Nemeth:	So there won't be any Governor Linden either, this means "give up to Governor Linden" won't make any sense.
[15:29]	Squirrel Wood:	Give up to Governor Kitten
[15:30]	Malbers Linden:	Do/Have any of you created a HUD?
[15:30]	Malbers Linden:	Is it easy?
[15:30]	McCabe Maxsted:	it could reference something on the server, that each person's grid could modify
[15:30]	Geneko Nemeth:	Nope, never.
[15:30]	McCabe Maxsted:	yeah, a few times
[15:30]	Chaley May:	i made incomplete HUDs :)
[15:30]	Jacek Antonelli:	I have. It's just a scripted attachment. The difficulty of it depends on the complexity of the functionality
[15:30]	McCabe Maxsted:	it's tricksy :) especially whe you own land and "drop" is disabled (always hated that ui bug)
[15:30]	Squirrel Wood:	HUDs have the downside that you have to build them pretty small inworld or they will clog up two and a half screens when you attach them
[15:31]	Aimee Trescothick:	It would be nice to be able to go beyond the 2D HUD and be able to provide 3D interfaces projected in-world that only you can see
[15:31]	Avatar Genira:	just a bunch of scripts and UI graphics
[15:31]	Chaley May:	i think you can do that with HUDs
[15:31]	Avatar Genira:	HUDs inworld would have to be attached to avatar, not the best look and not secret
[15:31]	McCabe Maxsted:	I've been thinking about something like that for the movement controls aimee; transparent arrows surrounding your avatar instead of wasting screen space on a window
[15:31]	Chaley May:	make them look more 3D
[15:31]	Avatar Genira:	private
[15:32]	Avatar Genira:	all prims look flat when attached to HUD
[15:32]	Aimee Trescothick nods, that sort of thing
[15:32]	Geneko Nemeth:	Field of Vision.
[15:32]	Avatar Genira:	I like to see my avatar as a person, no arrows
[15:32]	Squirrel Wood:	the prims look flat until you rotate them. though for proper perspective you will have to employ a number of tricks.
[15:32]	Aimee Trescothick:	a hugger "hud" for example could show buttons next to each avatar in view
[15:32]	Squirrel Wood:	and that involves icky math
[15:33]	Avatar Genira:	image is the most important thing to most users
[15:33]	Jacek Antonelli:	One of the difficulties of HUDs is that there are no standard widgets or UI controls. No text fields or scroll bars. Only prims that you can click on.
[15:33]	Avatar Genira:	yes the math would be ugly
[15:33]	Chaley May:	im not sure if light sorces affect HUDs at all too so surfaces look the same color
[15:33]	Avatar Genira:	and dependant on the camera position
[15:33]	McCabe Maxsted:	one problem: huds remember screen resolution, but don't adjust position when resultion changes. so if somenoe builds a hud on a widescreen monitor, it won't show up on your regular monitor since it's being drawn off screen
[15:33]	Avatar Genira:	2D HUDs are the norm
[15:33]	Geneko Nemeth:	Also it would be hard to make text that align to screen pixels.
[15:33]	Malbers Linden:	So, the HUD-building tools are nonexistant and the lack of a standard set of HUD controls hamper HUD development?
[15:34]	Squirrel Wood:	another problem with huds: floating text size depends on UI scale
[15:34]	McCabe Maxsted:	yeah
[15:34]	Avatar Genira:	HUDs are just script texture and animation files in a prim really
[15:34]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yes. As well as the built-in limitations of LSL
[15:34]	Geneko Nemeth:	Give me XUI+client side script HUDs and that would be super!
[15:34]	Aimee Trescothick:	the maths for coping with the 3D aspect are in the client, you just need to render them as "local only" prims
[15:34]	McCabe Maxsted:	huds really need to be abstracted from attachments
[15:34]	Avatar Genira:	LSL is the weakest point
[15:35]	McCabe Maxsted:	even wearing them is a pain
[15:35]	McCabe Maxsted:	because when you change outfits, it changes your huds
[15:35]	Avatar Genira:	that can be good and a pain at the same time
[15:35]	Geneko Nemeth:	On the other hand though building HUDs from Prims does have the advantage thta you can show them to everyone ^^
[15:35]	Chaley May:	yes its annoting how everything detaches
[15:35]	Chaley May:	we need to be able to lock attachments
[15:35]	Avatar Genira:	eg my TinyMatic is with an outfit which is appropriate
[15:35]	Chaley May:	especially HUDs
[15:36]	Squirrel Wood:	I just put the HUDs I always use in a separate folder and after changing outfits I shift-drag & drop that folder onto me avatar
[15:36]	McCabe Maxsted:	locking huds, interesting idea
[15:36]	Geneko Nemeth:	... that kinda makes you want to suggest XUI on a prim...
[15:36]	Avatar Genira:	look above Tiny need diff stuff
[15:36]	McCabe Maxsted:	that'd work for avatars that use a custom ao hud...
[15:36]	McCabe Maxsted:	adn rely on forced switching
[15:36]	Avatar Genira:	some outfits need their own HUDs like Neko tails and ears
[15:37]	Chaley May:	i think its possible to create a fully 3D world entirely on HUDs
[15:37]	Squirrel Wood:	HUDs are also dependent on script performance. If the sim is bogged down, your HUD will react slow, if at all.
[15:37]	McKaela Kiama下线了。
[15:37]	Chaley May:	i mean the HUDs are the world
[15:37]	Geneko Nemeth:	Not to mention connection delay.
[15:37]	Aimee Trescothick:	hah, a second life client HUD
[15:37]	Avatar Genira:	so not all HUDs are universal (mine are mostly related to outfit) except for navigation and combat HUDs
[15:37]	Aimee Trescothick:	we like recursion
[15:37]	Chaley May:	each attachment could be an avatar
[15:38]	Avatar Genira:	hehe
[15:38]	McCabe Maxsted:	huds could be pretty awesome if there were some sort of development kit... and we didn't have to use laggy xyzzy-text...
[15:38]	Chaley May:	one attachment for environments
[15:38]	Geneko Nemeth:	And common animation/effect HUDs...
[15:38]	Squirrel Wood:	xyzzy is ten times less laggy if you compile it to mono ^^
[15:38]	McCabe Maxsted:	ugh, that makes me sad
[15:38]	McCabe Maxsted:	oh, less
[15:38]	McCabe Maxsted:	thought you said more, der
[15:39]	Malbers Linden:	There are benefts to HUD attachment to avatar?
[15:39]	Geneko Nemeth:	Uncaught ParseException.
[15:39]	McCabe Maxsted:	wonder how long it'll take for people to use mono versions, especially since I think a lot of people get it from freebie boxes and scripts in inv are only LSL..
[15:40]	Jacek Antonelli:	Sort of. Because it's attached, it can do things in LSL like override animations and move your avatar around
[15:40]	Jacek Antonelli:	But if those limitations weren't there in LSL, there would be no reason to have them attached
[15:40]	McCabe Maxsted nods
[15:41]	Avatar Genira:	I think there is nothing wrong with HUDs being attached as it is
[15:41]	Geneko Nemeth:	....
[15:41]	Jacek Antonelli:	Well, it is a bit troublesome that there are a limited number of attachment points for HUDs
[15:41]	Theodore Folsom:	ack
[15:42]	McCabe Maxsted:	that does seem like an artificial limitation
[15:42]	Geneko Nemeth:	Nice Sound Effect, Squirrel ^^
[15:42]	Geneko Nemeth:	But, it does seem a bit big... how large of a screen would this need?
[15:43]	Squirrel Wood:	this one is optimized for a 4:3 display
[15:43]	Avatar Genira:	that is true but you can edit them into position which could be replaced with more fixed attachment points
[15:43]	Avatar Genira:	4:3 is dead now
[15:43]	Geneko Nemeth:	Yeah, but for the floating text to fit in the buttons...
[15:43]	Jacek Antonelli:	Not dead yet, Avatar
[15:43]	McCabe Maxsted:	give it a while
[15:44]	Squirrel Wood:	floating text depends on UI scale/size
[15:44]	McCabe Maxsted:	getting there, though
[15:44]	Squirrel Wood:	1.0 or smaller will look ok
[15:44]	Geneko Nemeth:	Oh, right...
[15:44]	Avatar Genira:	nearly even if I love my 24" Compaq screen
[15:45]	Avatar Genira:	the size is a prob now because it is texture based
[15:45]	Jacek Antonelli:	Could we take the last 15 minutes to talk about Big Spaceship?
[15:45]	Geneko Nemeth:	Agreed.
[15:45]	Hyper-Flute Composer Edition v3 (HUD1-Upper): Playing Score 'Close Encounters Theme... (Transcribed for Hyper-Flute by Gunkeeper Nabob)'
[15:45]	Avatar Genira:	should be able to make them of UI elements like the build floater
[15:46]	Benjamin Linden:	sure, were folks finished discussing HUDs?
[15:46]	McCabe Maxsted:	fine by me
[15:46]	Benjamin Linden:	Malbers, did you get what you needed?
[15:46]	Geneko Nemeth:	I think we'll probably still keep it next week...
[15:46]	Malbers Linden:	Good start. There is always more.
[15:46]	Jacek Antonelli:	We could talk for days about HUDs, hehe
[15:46]	Squirrel Wood:	^^
[15:46]	McCabe Maxsted grins
[15:46]	Geneko Nemeth:	Why nobody talked on sl-ux about HUDs?
[15:46]	Squirrel Wood:	't was a pain to script that one behind me :p
[15:46]	Malbers Linden:	Could continue the talk about HUDs on SL-UX.
[15:47]	Jacek Antonelli:	I have six questions I've prepared about Big Spaceship and the project
[15:47]	Jacek Antonelli:	The big one is: What will Big Spaceship be working on, specifically? The viewer interface? New user orientation? On the web, in-world?
[15:47]	Malbers Linden thinks Jacek comes TOO prepared
[15:47]	Benjamin Linden:	Jacek comes prepared :-)
[15:48]	Malbers Linden:	would you like Ben to take these one at a time OR wait until you ask all 6 Qs?
[15:49]	Jacek Antonelli:	Let's do one at a time, I think
[15:49]	Benjamin Linden:	right now Big Spaceship is putting together a set of recommendations related to the new user experience, from the minute the user hits sl.com, through registration, into the client and their first in-world experiences
[15:49]	Mm Alder:	Based on them being newbies?
[15:49]	Geneko Nemeth:	Hopefully that doesn't include gratuitous amounts of Flash ^_^
[15:49]	Avatar Genira:	will it help track griefers
[15:49]	Jacek Antonelli:	Okay. I take it there aren't any specific plans about what they're going to change, then?
[15:49]	Benjamin Linden:	they are doing design explorations and prototypes but not building anything functional in this phase
[15:49]	Avatar Genira:	or just criminals
[15:49]	Benjamin Linden:	that's correct Jacek
[15:50]	Benjamin Linden:	we're in the very preliminary phases
[15:50]	McCabe Maxsted:	"in this phase" meaning no viewer work is planned for now, but what about the future?
[15:50]	Mm Alder:	What problem are they trying to solve?
[15:50]	Jacek Antonelli:	Will they be building something functional after the design phase?
[15:50]	Jacek Antonelli:	Or will LL be doing the building?
[15:50]	Geneko Nemeth:	Whoa that's a lot of questions.
[15:51]	McKaela Kiama上线了。
[15:51]	Mm Alder:	...and not many answers.
[15:51]	Jacek Antonelli:	hehe
[15:51]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm scrolling back
[15:52]	Benjamin Linden:	McCabe, we have done some preliminary thinking about the Viewer UI but detailed design hasn't yet begun
[15:53]	Benjamin Linden:	Mm, at a high level the problem we're trying to solve with Big Spaceship's help is user retention
[15:53]	Benjamin Linden:	or lack thereof :-)
[15:53]	Jacek Antonelli:	hehe
[15:53]	Benjamin Linden:	Jacek, implementation details haven't yet been worked out
[15:53]	Mm Alder:	Have you surveyed users to see why they leave?
[15:53]	Avatar Genira:	need to be prepared for high churn since about half come here to find dates
[15:54]	Geneko Nemeth:	Or a game.
[15:54]	Avatar Genira:	no kidding I practicall live 24/7 in a welcome area
[15:54]	Geneko Nemeth:	You can only type so fast, unless you are an AMS agent and need to kill zombies with your typing.
[15:54]	Benjamin Linden:	implementation will likely be handled through a combination of internal and external development resources
[15:54]	Geneko Nemeth:	Is it even possible to survey leaving users... oh yeah maybe on uninstalling client...
[15:54]	Squirrel Wood:	I hope they are taking suggestions from the community into account
[15:54]	Avatar Genira:	the gamers don't fing extrinsic rewards, daters don't find partners
[15:55]	Jacek Antonelli:	I'm curious about how Big Spaceship was chosen. Am I correct in assuming that LL chose to outsource it because of limited resources (personell) within the Lab? Or to leverage BS's design experience?
[15:55]	Avatar Genira:	so they both give up
[15:55]	Benjamin Linden:	that's an interesting observation Avatar
[15:55]	Benjamin Linden:	why do you spend so much time in welcome areas?
[15:55]	Avatar Genira:	I said I live in a welcome area, practically sleep by the PC
[15:55]	Benjamin Linden:	yes we have surveyed users
[15:56]	Benjamin Linden:	Squirrel, we're working on a plan to gather and respond to community feedback during the course of the project
[15:56]	Avatar Genira:	just look at the logs from Korea1 and you will be surprised
[15:56]	Mm Alder:	So what did the survey say?
[15:56]	Benjamin Linden:	Jacek, the decision was a combination of both the factors you mentioned
[15:57]	Avatar Genira:	people don't tell truth in surveys and those that take them are never a representative sample
[15:57]	Benjamin Linden:	Big Spaceship was chosen during a competitive pitch process with several other design agencies
[15:57]	Jacek Antonelli:	Great, that answers my next question :)
[15:57]	Geneko Nemeth:	Kinda makes me curious who are the other candidates.
[15:57]	Avatar Genira:	read the logs listen for a few days and you get a better opinion
[15:57]	Geneko Nemeth:	Welcome area eh.
[15:58]	Benjamin Linden:	Avatar, what are you referring to?
[15:58]	Benjamin Linden:	logs from welcome areas?
[15:58]	Jacek Antonelli:	Is there a timeframe for the project? Or is it too early for that yet?
[15:58]	Avatar Genira:	what users come here for and the reasons for the hight churn
[15:59]	Benjamin Linden:	Jacek, it's too early to know specific timelines
[15:59]	Jacek Antonelli:	Okay
[15:59]	Avatar Genira:	the high churn is inevitable and we should not run LL based on trying to change that
[15:59]	Pop Lubitsch:	Boo!
[15:59]	Benjamin Linden:	we're nearly at time, Jacek did you have another question we can answer quickly?
[15:59]	Geneko Nemeth:	....
[15:59]	Mm Alder:	Do you even know if the problem is usability?
[15:59]	Jacek Antonelli:	My curiosity has been satisfied, thanks :)
[16:00]	Benjamin Linden:	Mm, my sense is that usability one part of a multi-faceted problem
[16:00]	Benjamin Linden:	ok great, thanks for those questions Jacek
[16:00]	McCabe Maxsted nods agreement to that
[16:00]	Malbers Linden:	Yeah, almost all problems we have now are multifaceted with experience design as one facet
[16:00]	Benjamin Linden:	alright folks, I have to run. thanks again for your participation
[16:00]	Geneko Nemeth:	Okay, seeya.
[16:00]	Jacek Antonelli:	Thanks for taking the time, Ben. Take care!
[16:00]	Avatar Genira:	bye Benj
[16:00]	Malbers Linden:	Yes, thanks for HUD and Big Space ship discussions
[16:00]	Benjamin Linden:	I guess we're reconvening officially again next month?
[16:00]	Theodore Folsom:	Byes ^^
[16:01]	McCabe Maxsted:	take care ben :)
[16:01]	Benjamin Linden:	I may try to pop in between now and then
[16:01]	Squirrel Wood:	Have a nice weekend ^^
[16:01]	Benjamin Linden:	just to check on you guys :-)
[16:01]	Malbers Linden:	Yep, we are now on our once-a-month scehdule
[16:01]	Jacek Antonelli:	Correct, Ben. But we'll still be having unofficial discussions here each week :D
[16:01]	Geneko Nemeth:	Cool then. So next week's topic?
[16:01]	Benjamin Linden:	ok cool, thanks Jacek
[16:01]	Malbers Linden:	I'm sure we'll be communicating in the SL-UX alias.
[16:01]	Avatar Genira:	so next week is out?
[16:01]	Geneko Nemeth:	Anyone have an idea on the topic, put it on the Wiki pages and/or in the mailing list!
[16:01]	Benjamin Linden:	take care everybody!
[16:02]	Avatar Genira:	pooff
[16:02]	Squirrel Wood:	name the wiki url ?
[16:02]	Malbers Linden:	we have something on the wiki already. Looking.....
[16:02]	Jacek Antonelli:	I've made a wiki page about the interest group. There's a link to a page for people to add topics -- https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User_Experience_Interest_Group
[16:02]	Jacek Antonelli:	Topics: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User_Experience_Interest_Group/Topics
[16:02]	Avatar Genira:	good i was waiting for that, do we have to register?
[16:02]	Malbers Linden:	oh crap. we already have this: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Resident_Experience
[16:03]	Geneko Nemeth:	Where do we put the logs though? On Malbers' page on the RXIG page?
[16:03]	Malbers Linden:	we'll have to make sure we have pointers back-and-forth
[16:03]	Jacek Antonelli:	No problem, Malbers
[16:03]	Geneko Nemeth:	Now where did I put that formatting script to?
[16:03]	Jacek Antonelli:	I'll post up today's transcript, by the way
[16:04]	Malbers Linden:	awesome. thanks Jacek
[16:04]	Malbers Linden:	thanks, as always, everyone. See you again soon. probably before a month from now.
[16:04]	Squirrel Wood:	^^
[16:05]	Pier Jaecies:	bye
[16:05]	Jacek Antonelli:	Take care, Malbers :) Oh, and *hugs!* It's Hug a Malbers Day :D
[16:05]	Avatar Genira:	you mean 4 weeks
[16:05]	Jacek Antonelli:	Oops, to slow
[16:05]	Esbee Linden:	I should be on my way as well. Bye everyone. Thanks for a great meeting!
[16:05]	McCabe Maxsted:	hugs!
[16:05]	Theodore Folsom:	Byes
[16:05]	Squirrel Wood:	^^
[16:05]	Jacek Antonelli:	Bye Esbee!
[16:05]	Malbers Linden:	hugs to all
[16:05]	Malbers Linden:	bye
[16:05]	Avatar Genira:	byes
[16:05]	Aimee Trescothick waves
[16:05]	Theo says:	Get your Squirrelly Hand off my nosey.
[16:06]	Theo says:	Get your Squirrelly Hand off my nosey.
[16:06]	Theo says:	Aimee Trescothick Get your hand off my nosey or you will make it dirty!
[16:06]	Squirrel Wood:	So next week its the unofficial hour ^^
[16:06]	Aimee Trescothick:	heh, cute
[16:06]	Male Equine - Tail: Get your Squirrelly Hand off my Tail.
[16:06]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yep!
[16:06]	Theodore Folsom eeps!
[16:07]	Avatar Genira:	OK I was confused about that
[16:07]	Pop Lubitsch:	hey
[16:07]	Avatar Genira:	maybe we meet without Lindens
[16:07]	McCabe Maxsted:	yup! I'll see all of you next week :)
[16:07]	Squirrel Wood:	You must be one of them there...
[16:07]	Squirrel Wood:	new fangled....
[16:07]	Squirrel Wood:	queer-o-sexuals...
[16:07]	Aimee Trescothick:	it's officially unofficial
[16:07]	McCabe Maxsted:	topic will be: freebies for mccabe
[16:07]	Jacek Antonelli:	heh
[16:07]	Squirrel Wood:	^^
[16:07]	Avatar Genira:	WHATEVER!
[16:07]	Avatar Genira:	WHATEVER!
[16:07]	Theodore Folsom:	*giggles*
[16:08]	Avatar Genira:	***** How can I MISS you ~
[16:08]	Avatar Genira:	***** If You WON'T go AWAY !! ~
[16:08]	Theodore Folsom:	o.o!
[16:08]	Squirrel Wood:	POKE!!!!
[16:08]	McCabe Maxsted:	hehe
[16:08]	Theodore Folsom:	AHH!!!!
[16:08]	Theodore Folsom:	let's go Squirs ^^
[16:09]	Jacek Antonelli:	Take care everyone! See you next week :)