User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2008-11-06

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[14:55] Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/Hippotropolis/246/15/25
[14:56] McCabe Maxsted: ahoy there :)
[14:56] Geneko Nemeth: Squittel!
[14:56] Squirrel Wood: Be Affeared! http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/political-pictures-sarah-palin-mayans.jpg
[14:57] McCabe Maxsted: hahahaha
[14:57] McCabe Maxsted: have you seen the latest vid circling about how she didnt' know africa was a continent?
[14:57] Squirrel Wood: nope
[14:57] Squirrel Wood: but I did not expect any less of her
[14:58] Squirrel Wood: she's too stupid to be a politician
[14:58] McCabe Maxsted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWZHTJsR4Bc
[14:58] Squirrel Wood: !hug malbers
[14:59] McCabe Maxsted: aoy aimee, malbers :)
[14:59] Malbers Linden: Hi evreyone
[14:59] Aimee Trescothick: hey :)
[14:59] Pier Jaecies: helllo
[14:59] Geneko Nemeth: You've been... bigger.
[14:59] Squirrel Wood: Today is Hug-A-Malbers day!
[14:59] Geneko Nemeth: 372 textures to go...
[14:59] McCabe Maxsted grins
[15:00] Pounce: Usage: Face your target and Say '/pounce [person's name]' or '/1pounce [person's name]'
[15:00] Malbers Linden: today is hug-a-malbers day?
[15:00] Squirrel Wood: Yes
[15:00] Aimee Trescothick: who knew?
[15:00] McCabe Maxsted: congrats malbers (watch your nuts)
[15:00] Aimee Trescothick: Second Life has textures?
[15:00] Malbers Linden: no doubt
[15:00] Geneko Nemeth wishes to pounce on Malbers, but knowing that it will break the AO...
[15:00] McCabe Maxsted waves to jacek. Ahoy!
[15:00] Jacek Antonelli: Ahoy hoy
[15:00] McCabe Maxsted: she awaketh :D
[15:01] Aimee Trescothick: hey :)
[15:01] Jacek Antonelli rubs eyes sleepily
[15:01] Aimee Trescothick: aww
[15:01] McCabe Maxsted: nap well?
[15:01] Jacek Antonelli: Well enough, yeah
[15:01] McCabe Maxsted: squirrel was just passing out more scary palin 2012 links...
[15:01] Jacek Antonelli: Oh dear
[15:01] Squirrel Wood: http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/political-pictures-sarah-palin-mayans.jpg ?
[15:02] Avatar Genira: hi everyone
[15:02] McCabe Maxsted: ahoy avatar :)
[15:02] Malbers Linden: Charlette isn't quite herself today
[15:02] Jacek Antonelli: hehehe
[15:02] Squirrel Wood: not quite, no
[15:03] Avatar Genira: please exuce the alt, but for continuity I'll relay chat via an object Charlette Proto
[15:03] Charlette Proto: don't laugh
[15:03] Geneko Nemeth: ... you don't need to.
[15:03] McCabe Maxsted: alt! alt! *points*
[15:03] Geneko Nemeth: We do identity switcherroos in #twokinds a lot.
[15:03] Charlette Proto: Ithought it may be easier to deal with
[15:03] Squirrel Wood: Yes. Contrary to popular belief, alts DO exist ^^
[15:04] Charlette Proto: hehe I have a few
[15:04] McCabe Maxsted: she's a witch! burn her!
[15:04] Geneko Nemeth: I don't have any.
[15:04] Charlette Proto: you don't get suspended then
[15:04] Malbers Linden: I'm just waiting until ~5 after the hour to start...
[15:04] Squirrel Wood: your mike is open Malbers
[15:05] Geneko Nemeth: C'mon, just come out as A. Genira.
[15:05] Malbers Linden: thanks Squirrel
[15:05] Squirrel Wood: ^^
[15:05] Geneko Nemeth: Saves you typing.
[15:05] Charlette Proto: wise move, what is the subject today (I forgot)
[15:05] Malbers Linden: lucky for all of you it wasn't in front of my mouth
[15:05] Geneko Nemeth: HUDs ans LL's new hire.
[15:05] McCabe Maxsted needs to login to his alt more. The remembering alt login patch is in Imprudence, just need to fix a few of the bugs in it :D
[15:05] Charlette Proto: saves only two characters
[15:06] Squirrel Wood: Your internet access is going to get suspended
[15:06] Avatar Genira: but if you insist
[15:06] Geneko Nemeth: New hire being a user experience company named Big Spaceship, which has a pretty nice protifilo.
[15:06] Squirrel Wood: The Internet Service Provider Consorcium was made to protect the rights of software authors, artists.

??? We conduct regular wiretapping on our networks, to monitor criminal acts.

[15:06] Geneko Nemeth: Although, the same can't be said on their attention on accessiblity.
[15:06] Malbers Linden: Yes, Geneko is correct -- HUDs and Big Spaceship
[15:06] Squirrel Wood: yumyum spam ^^
[15:06] McCabe Maxsted: will ben be stopping by?
[15:06] Crane Zenovka: Hi Benjamin
[15:06] McCabe Maxsted: aha, speak of the devil :)
[15:06] Malbers Linden: speak of the devil....
[15:06] Squirrel Wood: Hellos Benjamin!
[15:06] McCabe Maxsted: ahoy ben! *waves*
[15:07] Jacek Antonelli: Ahoy Ben!
[15:07] McCabe Maxsted: (jinx on malbers)
[15:07] Geneko Nemeth: People seems to like to poke fun on their full-Flash website.
[15:07] Benjamin Linden: oh now I'm the devil
[15:07] Squirrel Wood: you have been promoted? ;)
[15:07] Benjamin Linden: lol
[15:07] Malbers Linden: large blue staticy devil
[15:07] Benjamin Linden: hi all
[15:07] Squirrel Wood: Hellos ^^
[15:07] Crane Zenovka: lol =)
[15:07] Charlette Proto: hi Ben I'll be Avatar just for today
[15:07] Benjamin Linden: sorry I'm late
[15:07] Theodore Folsom: whoops ... Hullows @ll
[15:07] Theo says: Get your Squirrelly Hand off my nosey.
[15:07] Benjamin Linden: but it wouldn't be me if I wasn't!
[15:07] Benjamin Linden: :-)
[15:08] Malbers Linden: I know that I'm really a n00b when it comes to HUDs
[15:08] Malbers Linden: I don't really use any
[15:08] Squirrel Wood: You are not late. You are just in time ^^
[15:08] Geneko Nemeth: My poinion that more people need to come here still holds.
[15:08] McCabe Maxsted: need to pick up a mystitool malbers
[15:08] Malbers Linden: what kinds of functionality are best suited for HUDs?
[15:08] Male Equine - Tail: Theodore Folsom Get your hand off my tail or you will make it dirty!
[15:09] Squirrel Wood: usually information displays, avatar controls and the like
[15:09] Malbers Linden: what does the mystitool do?
[15:09] McCabe Maxsted uses his hud for radar
[15:09] Avatar Genira: I hate the way huds have such inconsistent interfaces and visual presentation
[15:09] Geneko Nemeth does not use HUDs.
[15:09] Malbers Linden: I've had HUDs for av control -- usually special effects
[15:09] Aimee Trescothick: radar most common, though that would be nicer in the client
[15:09] Geneko Nemeth: They take up screen space and hard to move.
[15:09] Avatar Genira: hugs kisses etc
[15:09] Squirrel Wood: Mystitool: http://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=120285
[15:09] Malbers Linden: radar for combat systems?
[15:09] McCabe Maxsted: most huds I've seen do radar or combat controls
[15:10] McCabe Maxsted: no, just for detecting nearby avs
[15:10] McCabe Maxsted: who's in chat range, etc
[15:10] Geneko Nemeth: Detecting griefers...
[15:10] Aimee Trescothick: would be nice to see HUDs get used more for augmented (virtual) reality
[15:10] McCabe Maxsted: you're limited to 16 due to llsensor, but it's so handy
[15:10] McCabe Maxsted: wouldn't recommend anyone use SL™ without some form of radar
[15:10] Malbers Linden: oh, so radar with extra info -- more than the mini-map?
[15:10] Geneko Nemeth: For example, names.
[15:10] Jacek Antonelli: Some sailboats use a HUD to displaying wind direction, speed, etc., and offer buttons for raising and lowering the sails and so forth
[15:10] Avatar Genira: I have a griefing/combat hug with the biggest screen realestate waste - the Quantom Core
[15:11] Aimee Trescothick: C:SI does a nice thing when selecting someone to challenge to a dual by placing a box round the avatar in the world view that you can click to select them
[15:11] Geneko Nemeth: Avatar control should go without saying.
[15:11] McCabe Maxsted: I pass out the crystal gadget radar to noobs; they never know who's in chat distance and who isn't
[15:11] Avatar Genira: only use it to read the User Support IM chat
[15:11] Malbers Linden wants to see Chareltte's combat hug
[15:11] Squirrel Wood: I have seen an attempt to create a HUD that would map avatar positions from 3D to 2D, take the camera position and stuff into account to 'draw' boxes around avatars
[15:11] Geneko Nemeth: Whoa, how cute!
[15:11] Geneko Nemeth: Hmm,,, a linden?
[15:11] Avatar Genira: hehe notworth the money otherwise
[15:12] Geneko Nemeth: And hiding behind a console... >_>
[15:12] Aimee Trescothick: Squirrel, that's what C:SI does
[15:12] Jacek Antonelli: Interesting
[15:12] Chaley May: I used a hud to make a snapshot to use as a sculptie :)
[15:12] Jacek Antonelli: How does that work, Chaley?
[15:12] Malbers Linden: any HUDs that would be especially useful for new residents?
[15:13] Chaley May: it didnt work well too blurry
[15:13] Malbers Linden: maybe the radar ones?
[15:13] Avatar Genira: my opinion is that a standard interface for HUD building should be developed
[15:13] Avatar Genira: there used to be one for noobs
[15:13] Avatar Genira: it was badly received
[15:13] Malbers Linden: yes, I heard (back there somewhere) that HUD UIs are too disparate
[15:13] Theodore Folsom: there was that new users guide once for newbies ... was available on the OIs .... was helpful imho
[15:13] Theodore Folsom: was a HUD*
[15:13] Jacek Antonelli: Yeah, helpful when it worked...
[15:13] Geneko Nemeth: Gesture controls that intergrate with the client, oh that would be sweet~
[15:13] McCabe Maxsted nods. I'd throw a radar one in by default
[15:14] Chaley May: i like making HUDs
[15:14] Avatar Genira: but I think a noob HUD is a better way to learn than any notecard system would
[15:14] Geneko Nemeth: Yeah, I was pretty confused by that Orientation HUD too (among other problems like lag connection across the pacific).
[15:14] Theodore Folsom: agreed Avatar
[15:14] McCabe Maxsted: hud interfaces would be so much nicer if we had that text-prim idea that was brought up a while back ;)
[15:14] Avatar Genira: radar and a few poses, maybe basic AO
[15:14] Jacek Antonelli: I have my AO as a HUD. It has buttons for turning on and off, for using a sit pose, etc. Based on ZHAO-II
[15:15] Squirrel Wood: HUDs that use a mysql database in the background could be used to provide information for players... like, cool places to visit and such
[15:15] Avatar Genira: above att access to help notes
[15:15] Geneko Nemeth: These, though, really should be built into the viewer by default.
[15:15] Avatar Genira: SQL backend would be great - up to date
[15:15] McCabe Maxsted would rather see aos become built into the client, but yeah, that's another *really* common. AOs are a right of passage in SL™ culture
[15:15] Jacek Antonelli: Another interesting HUD is the FilterCam. It puts image overlays on your screen for special effects when taking pictures. There's one that's white with a picture of an iPhone, but the iPhone screen is transparent so you can see the scene through it, hehe
[15:15] McCabe Maxsted: "you have stepped up from a noob! here's a new walk"
[15:16] Avatar Genira: but a HUD is a way to keep it in one place and detach when no longer used
[15:16] Malbers Linden: so I've heard the notion of a "tourguide" HUD for new residents, yes?
[15:16] Avatar Genira: that sounds like a gimmick
[15:16] Jacek Antonelli: Yep, Malbers
[15:16] Squirrel Wood: I may have such a "tourguide" hud
[15:17] McCabe Maxsted nods
[15:17] Avatar Genira: that is what I was remembering (main account)
[15:17] Squirrel Wood: basically its a pda-style image viewer
[15:17] Theodore Folsom: i found it
[15:17] Malbers Linden: is that better as a HUD or just built into the Viewer in other ways?
[15:17] Theodore Folsom: i have one
[15:17] Aimee Trescothick: thing with tour type things is that they need to be actively kept up to date
[15:17] Theodore Folsom: who needs?
[15:17] Avatar Genira: for noobs I think a video would be the best way to introduce SL like games do
[15:17] Geneko Nemeth: It's best if HUDs can run on the Viewer, makes things faster.
[15:17] Aimee Trescothick: they easily get out of date
[15:18] Avatar Genira: know the video is a problem
[15:18] McCabe Maxsted: you mean like a video intro?
[15:18] Avatar Genira: yes like all the games
[15:18] Geneko Nemeth: Not all the games...
[15:18] Chaley May: would be more fun if the tour guide was a well made robot they could follow in world
[15:18] Avatar Genira: this is what it is this is what you are this is what you do
[15:18] Geneko Nemeth: Navi? Is that you?
[15:18] McCabe Maxsted: interesting idea. Good excuse to put a guitar solo into the viewer XD
[15:18] Avatar Genira: hehe
[15:18] Aimee Trescothick: heh, virtual tourguide rendered as an avatar only they can see
[15:18] Aimee Trescothick: invisible friend lol
[15:19] Jacek Antonelli: hah
[15:19] Geneko Nemeth: Although I wouldn't say no to the Navi idea.
[15:19] russ Sorbet: sorry mp
[15:19] russ Sorbet: sorry no
[15:19] Avatar Genira: my own mentor to torture
[15:19] Geneko Nemeth: Invisible friend FTW~
[15:19] Avatar Genira: SL Mental Griefer
[15:19] Geneko Nemeth: Being able to contact a mentor through the Navi. Would also be an interesting idea.
[15:19] Geneko Nemeth: Ohmygosh. It grew big.
[15:20] Malbers Linden sees that Squirrel is using his vast knowledge of SL to rez things sneakily
[15:20] McCabe Maxsted: haha. Noobhelper Linden says "I see that you've logged into SL. Would you like to create a spreadsheet?"
[15:20] Jacek Antonelli: hahahaha
[15:20] Aimee Trescothick: :D
[15:20] Geneko Nemeth: Nothing says that you can rez stuff on another parcel and drag it in the client strings... >_<
[15:21] Aimee Trescothick: you could have different ones for different entry channels
[15:21] Malbers Linden: are there HUDs that are well tuned for Builders?
[15:21] Geneko Nemeth: Or let people make their own.
[15:21] Avatar Genira: I had a parrot freestandin here last week, great pictures
[15:21] Squirrel Wood points out that this is a hud that only uses a few key control elements
[15:21] Aimee Trescothick: "FightClub Linden breaks your legs and says "NOW learn to walk""
[15:21] Avatar Genira: we need menus for HUDs like the rest of the viewer
[15:22] Avatar Genira: instead of dialogs
[15:22] Squirrel Wood: I think there are HUDs for builders that let you rez differently shaped prims
[15:22] Jacek Antonelli: I've heard of a good builder tool in a HUD, Prim.Docker?
[15:22] Jacek Antonelli: Or something like that.
[15:22] Aimee Trescothick: yeah, a lot of people use Prim.Docker for building
[15:22] McCabe Maxsted nods. I've used that from time to time, it's not bad
[15:22] Jacek Antonelli: It has a lot of texture and prim alignment options. But it requires you to put a script in every prim you're building with
[15:22] Aimee Trescothick: I generally find it quicker to just do things by numbers
[15:23] Aimee Trescothick: than keep dropping scripts around
[15:23] Avatar Genira: that is bad news if it requires scripts, unless it wipes them
[15:23] Jacek Antonelli: Also, there's a HUD that will rez megaprims for you at your current location, since they can be hard to place.
[15:23] Aimee Trescothick: it does wipe them
[15:23] McCabe Maxsted: I'd really like to see stuff like tutorials put into huds rather than built into the viewer, as they could show wrong information when people travel around the open grid
[15:24] Avatar Genira: good that is essential (too many scripts running already)
[15:24] Aimee Trescothick: yup the megaprim searching HUD "Salt is handy
[15:24] Benjamin Linden: what do you mean McCabe?
[15:24] McCabe Maxsted: ooh have you used the salt hud? it searches a database of all the megaprims made
[15:24] Avatar Genira: McCabe is right
[15:24] Aimee Trescothick: gives you the closest sizes it can find to what you ask for
[15:24] McCabe Maxsted: well, if you have NUE stuff built into a viewer, and someone's logging into say litesim, it'll be inaccurate
[15:24] Avatar Genira: it should stand out from the interface and be optional
[15:25] Avatar Genira: get new different HUDs inworld
[15:25] Geneko Nemeth: That's why we have [APP_NAME] all over in the SL client.
[15:25] Geneko Nemeth: Unfortunately there still are a lot of strings that involves SL or Lindens...
[15:26] McCabe Maxsted: well, there's already been a "balkanization" of viewers; all the new grids that are starting to pop up are releasing their own viewers
[15:26] Benjamin Linden: so you're saying use huds so they can be customized for the particular server they're on?
[15:26] Jacek Antonelli: That's it, Ben
[15:26] McCabe Maxsted nods. That'd be nice
[15:26] Geneko Nemeth: It does make more sense: normally people won't think that "I want to connect to Second Life" yet,
[15:27] Geneko Nemeth: instead just "I want to use Second Life[application]".
[15:27] Avatar Genira: HUDs are a very good way to customise the viewer inworld
[15:27] Geneko Nemeth: Although all people going to alt grids know the distinction well already.
[15:27] Squirrel Wood: Aye.
[15:27] Avatar Genira: the Cool viewer lets you select the grid
[15:28] Squirrel Wood: HUDs allow for dynamic change that quickly adapts to new stuff whereas the UI itself is somewhat static
[15:28] Avatar Genira: Cool patch I should have said (old interface however)
[15:28] Benjamin Linden: how does the server you're on affect tutorial content?
[15:28] McCabe Maxsted: new people won't know though, especially when the agent domain is up and we can tp around to other grids; you want your viewer to be able to adapt to that
[15:28] Geneko Nemeth: For example, on GenekoSim there won't be any Lindens,
[15:28] Avatar Genira: hehe
[15:28] Benjamin Linden: the tutorial in the current viewer actually references a web site
[15:28] Benjamin Linden: which can be easily updated
[15:28] Geneko Nemeth: Instead administrators will be called Kittens.
[15:29] Avatar Genira: and avatars would all be animals
[15:29] Geneko Nemeth: So there won't be any Governor Linden either, this means "give up to Governor Linden" won't make any sense.
[15:29] Squirrel Wood: Give up to Governor Kitten
[15:30] Malbers Linden: Do/Have any of you created a HUD?
[15:30] Malbers Linden: Is it easy?
[15:30] McCabe Maxsted: it could reference something on the server, that each person's grid could modify
[15:30] Geneko Nemeth: Nope, never.
[15:30] McCabe Maxsted: yeah, a few times
[15:30] Chaley May: i made incomplete HUDs :)
[15:30] Jacek Antonelli: I have. It's just a scripted attachment. The difficulty of it depends on the complexity of the functionality
[15:30] McCabe Maxsted: it's tricksy :) especially whe you own land and "drop" is disabled (always hated that ui bug)
[15:30] Squirrel Wood: HUDs have the downside that you have to build them pretty small inworld or they will clog up two and a half screens when you attach them
[15:31] Aimee Trescothick: It would be nice to be able to go beyond the 2D HUD and be able to provide 3D interfaces projected in-world that only you can see
[15:31] Avatar Genira: just a bunch of scripts and UI graphics
[15:31] Chaley May: i think you can do that with HUDs
[15:31] Avatar Genira: HUDs inworld would have to be attached to avatar, not the best look and not secret
[15:31] McCabe Maxsted: I've been thinking about something like that for the movement controls aimee; transparent arrows surrounding your avatar instead of wasting screen space on a window
[15:31] Chaley May: make them look more 3D
[15:31] Avatar Genira: private
[15:32] Avatar Genira: all prims look flat when attached to HUD
[15:32] Aimee Trescothick nods, that sort of thing
[15:32] Geneko Nemeth: Field of Vision.
[15:32] Avatar Genira: I like to see my avatar as a person, no arrows
[15:32] Squirrel Wood: the prims look flat until you rotate them. though for proper perspective you will have to employ a number of tricks.
[15:32] Aimee Trescothick: a hugger "hud" for example could show buttons next to each avatar in view
[15:32] Squirrel Wood: and that involves icky math
[15:33] Avatar Genira: image is the most important thing to most users
[15:33] Jacek Antonelli: One of the difficulties of HUDs is that there are no standard widgets or UI controls. No text fields or scroll bars. Only prims that you can click on.
[15:33] Avatar Genira: yes the math would be ugly
[15:33] Chaley May: im not sure if light sorces affect HUDs at all too so surfaces look the same color
[15:33] Avatar Genira: and dependant on the camera position
[15:33] McCabe Maxsted: one problem: huds remember screen resolution, but don't adjust position when resultion changes. so if somenoe builds a hud on a widescreen monitor, it won't show up on your regular monitor since it's being drawn off screen
[15:33] Avatar Genira: 2D HUDs are the norm
[15:33] Geneko Nemeth: Also it would be hard to make text that align to screen pixels.
[15:33] Malbers Linden: So, the HUD-building tools are nonexistant and the lack of a standard set of HUD controls hamper HUD development?
[15:34] Squirrel Wood: another problem with huds: floating text size depends on UI scale
[15:34] McCabe Maxsted: yeah
[15:34] Avatar Genira: HUDs are just script texture and animation files in a prim really
[15:34] Jacek Antonelli: Yes. As well as the built-in limitations of LSL
[15:34] Geneko Nemeth: Give me XUI+client side script HUDs and that would be super!
[15:34] Aimee Trescothick: the maths for coping with the 3D aspect are in the client, you just need to render them as "local only" prims
[15:34] McCabe Maxsted: huds really need to be abstracted from attachments
[15:34] Avatar Genira: LSL is the weakest point
[15:35] McCabe Maxsted: even wearing them is a pain
[15:35] McCabe Maxsted: because when you change outfits, it changes your huds
[15:35] Avatar Genira: that can be good and a pain at the same time
[15:35] Geneko Nemeth: On the other hand though building HUDs from Prims does have the advantage thta you can show them to everyone ^^
[15:35] Chaley May: yes its annoting how everything detaches
[15:35] Chaley May: we need to be able to lock attachments
[15:35] Avatar Genira: eg my TinyMatic is with an outfit which is appropriate
[15:35] Chaley May: especially HUDs
[15:36] Squirrel Wood: I just put the HUDs I always use in a separate folder and after changing outfits I shift-drag & drop that folder onto me avatar
[15:36] McCabe Maxsted: locking huds, interesting idea
[15:36] Geneko Nemeth: ... that kinda makes you want to suggest XUI on a prim...
[15:36] Avatar Genira: look above Tiny need diff stuff
[15:36] McCabe Maxsted: that'd work for avatars that use a custom ao hud...
[15:36] McCabe Maxsted: adn rely on forced switching
[15:36] Avatar Genira: some outfits need their own HUDs like Neko tails and ears
[15:37] Chaley May: i think its possible to create a fully 3D world entirely on HUDs
[15:37] Squirrel Wood: HUDs are also dependent on script performance. If the sim is bogged down, your HUD will react slow, if at all.
[15:37] McKaela Kiama下线了。
[15:37] Chaley May: i mean the HUDs are the world
[15:37] Geneko Nemeth: Not to mention connection delay.
[15:37] Aimee Trescothick: hah, a second life client HUD
[15:37] Avatar Genira: so not all HUDs are universal (mine are mostly related to outfit) except for navigation and combat HUDs
[15:37] Aimee Trescothick: we like recursion
[15:37] Chaley May: each attachment could be an avatar
[15:38] Avatar Genira: hehe
[15:38] McCabe Maxsted: huds could be pretty awesome if there were some sort of development kit... and we didn't have to use laggy xyzzy-text...
[15:38] Chaley May: one attachment for environments
[15:38] Geneko Nemeth: And common animation/effect HUDs...
[15:38] Squirrel Wood: xyzzy is ten times less laggy if you compile it to mono ^^
[15:38] McCabe Maxsted: ugh, that makes me sad
[15:38] McCabe Maxsted: oh, less
[15:38] McCabe Maxsted: thought you said more, der
[15:39] Malbers Linden: There are benefts to HUD attachment to avatar?
[15:39] Geneko Nemeth: Uncaught ParseException.
[15:39] McCabe Maxsted: wonder how long it'll take for people to use mono versions, especially since I think a lot of people get it from freebie boxes and scripts in inv are only LSL..
[15:40] Jacek Antonelli: Sort of. Because it's attached, it can do things in LSL like override animations and move your avatar around
[15:40] Jacek Antonelli: But if those limitations weren't there in LSL, there would be no reason to have them attached
[15:40] McCabe Maxsted nods
[15:41] Avatar Genira: I think there is nothing wrong with HUDs being attached as it is
[15:41] Geneko Nemeth: ....
[15:41] Jacek Antonelli: Well, it is a bit troublesome that there are a limited number of attachment points for HUDs
[15:41] Theodore Folsom: ack
[15:42] McCabe Maxsted: that does seem like an artificial limitation
[15:42] Geneko Nemeth: Nice Sound Effect, Squirrel ^^
[15:42] Geneko Nemeth: But, it does seem a bit big... how large of a screen would this need?
[15:43] Squirrel Wood: this one is optimized for a 4:3 display
[15:43] Avatar Genira: that is true but you can edit them into position which could be replaced with more fixed attachment points
[15:43] Avatar Genira: 4:3 is dead now
[15:43] Geneko Nemeth: Yeah, but for the floating text to fit in the buttons...
[15:43] Jacek Antonelli: Not dead yet, Avatar
[15:43] McCabe Maxsted: give it a while
[15:44] Squirrel Wood: floating text depends on UI scale/size
[15:44] McCabe Maxsted: getting there, though
[15:44] Squirrel Wood: 1.0 or smaller will look ok
[15:44] Geneko Nemeth: Oh, right...
[15:44] Avatar Genira: nearly even if I love my 24" Compaq screen
[15:45] Avatar Genira: the size is a prob now because it is texture based
[15:45] Jacek Antonelli: Could we take the last 15 minutes to talk about Big Spaceship?
[15:45] Geneko Nemeth: Agreed.
[15:45] Hyper-Flute Composer Edition v3 (HUD1-Upper): Playing Score 'Close Encounters Theme... (Transcribed for Hyper-Flute by Gunkeeper Nabob)'
[15:45] Avatar Genira: should be able to make them of UI elements like the build floater
[15:46] Benjamin Linden: sure, were folks finished discussing HUDs?
[15:46] McCabe Maxsted: fine by me
[15:46] Benjamin Linden: Malbers, did you get what you needed?
[15:46] Geneko Nemeth: I think we'll probably still keep it next week...
[15:46] Malbers Linden: Good start. There is always more.
[15:46] Jacek Antonelli: We could talk for days about HUDs, hehe
[15:46] Squirrel Wood: ^^
[15:46] McCabe Maxsted grins
[15:46] Geneko Nemeth: Why nobody talked on sl-ux about HUDs?
[15:46] Squirrel Wood: 't was a pain to script that one behind me :p
[15:46] Malbers Linden: Could continue the talk about HUDs on SL-UX.
[15:47] Jacek Antonelli: I have six questions I've prepared about Big Spaceship and the project
[15:47] Jacek Antonelli: The big one is: What will Big Spaceship be working on, specifically? The viewer interface? New user orientation? On the web, in-world?
[15:47] Malbers Linden thinks Jacek comes TOO prepared
[15:47] Benjamin Linden: Jacek comes prepared :-)
[15:48] Malbers Linden: would you like Ben to take these one at a time OR wait until you ask all 6 Qs?
[15:49] Jacek Antonelli: Let's do one at a time, I think
[15:49] Benjamin Linden: right now Big Spaceship is putting together a set of recommendations related to the new user experience, from the minute the user hits sl.com, through registration, into the client and their first in-world experiences
[15:49] Mm Alder: Based on them being newbies?
[15:49] Geneko Nemeth: Hopefully that doesn't include gratuitous amounts of Flash ^_^
[15:49] Avatar Genira: will it help track griefers
[15:49] Jacek Antonelli: Okay. I take it there aren't any specific plans about what they're going to change, then?
[15:49] Benjamin Linden: they are doing design explorations and prototypes but not building anything functional in this phase
[15:49] Avatar Genira: or just criminals
[15:49] Benjamin Linden: that's correct Jacek
[15:50] Benjamin Linden: we're in the very preliminary phases
[15:50] McCabe Maxsted: "in this phase" meaning no viewer work is planned for now, but what about the future?
[15:50] Mm Alder: What problem are they trying to solve?
[15:50] Jacek Antonelli: Will they be building something functional after the design phase?
[15:50] Jacek Antonelli: Or will LL be doing the building?
[15:50] Geneko Nemeth: Whoa that's a lot of questions.
[15:51] McKaela Kiama上线了。
[15:51] Mm Alder: ...and not many answers.
[15:51] Jacek Antonelli: hehe
[15:51] Benjamin Linden: I'm scrolling back
[15:52] Benjamin Linden: McCabe, we have done some preliminary thinking about the Viewer UI but detailed design hasn't yet begun
[15:53] Benjamin Linden: Mm, at a high level the problem we're trying to solve with Big Spaceship's help is user retention
[15:53] Benjamin Linden: or lack thereof :-)
[15:53] Jacek Antonelli: hehe
[15:53] Benjamin Linden: Jacek, implementation details haven't yet been worked out
[15:53] Mm Alder: Have you surveyed users to see why they leave?
[15:53] Avatar Genira: need to be prepared for high churn since about half come here to find dates
[15:54] Geneko Nemeth: Or a game.
[15:54] Avatar Genira: no kidding I practicall live 24/7 in a welcome area
[15:54] Geneko Nemeth: You can only type so fast, unless you are an AMS agent and need to kill zombies with your typing.
[15:54] Benjamin Linden: implementation will likely be handled through a combination of internal and external development resources
[15:54] Geneko Nemeth: Is it even possible to survey leaving users... oh yeah maybe on uninstalling client...
[15:54] Squirrel Wood: I hope they are taking suggestions from the community into account
[15:54] Avatar Genira: the gamers don't fing extrinsic rewards, daters don't find partners
[15:55] Jacek Antonelli: I'm curious about how Big Spaceship was chosen. Am I correct in assuming that LL chose to outsource it because of limited resources (personell) within the Lab? Or to leverage BS's design experience?
[15:55] Avatar Genira: so they both give up
[15:55] Benjamin Linden: that's an interesting observation Avatar
[15:55] Benjamin Linden: why do you spend so much time in welcome areas?
[15:55] Avatar Genira: I said I live in a welcome area, practically sleep by the PC
[15:55] Benjamin Linden: yes we have surveyed users
[15:56] Benjamin Linden: Squirrel, we're working on a plan to gather and respond to community feedback during the course of the project
[15:56] Avatar Genira: just look at the logs from Korea1 and you will be surprised
[15:56] Mm Alder: So what did the survey say?
[15:56] Benjamin Linden: Jacek, the decision was a combination of both the factors you mentioned
[15:57] Avatar Genira: people don't tell truth in surveys and those that take them are never a representative sample
[15:57] Benjamin Linden: Big Spaceship was chosen during a competitive pitch process with several other design agencies
[15:57] Jacek Antonelli: Great, that answers my next question :)
[15:57] Geneko Nemeth: Kinda makes me curious who are the other candidates.
[15:57] Avatar Genira: read the logs listen for a few days and you get a better opinion
[15:57] Geneko Nemeth: Welcome area eh.
[15:58] Benjamin Linden: Avatar, what are you referring to?
[15:58] Benjamin Linden: logs from welcome areas?
[15:58] Jacek Antonelli: Is there a timeframe for the project? Or is it too early for that yet?
[15:58] Avatar Genira: what users come here for and the reasons for the hight churn
[15:59] Benjamin Linden: Jacek, it's too early to know specific timelines
[15:59] Jacek Antonelli: Okay
[15:59] Avatar Genira: the high churn is inevitable and we should not run LL based on trying to change that
[15:59] Pop Lubitsch: Boo!
[15:59] Benjamin Linden: we're nearly at time, Jacek did you have another question we can answer quickly?
[15:59] Geneko Nemeth: ....
[15:59] Mm Alder: Do you even know if the problem is usability?
[15:59] Jacek Antonelli: My curiosity has been satisfied, thanks :)
[16:00] Benjamin Linden: Mm, my sense is that usability one part of a multi-faceted problem
[16:00] Benjamin Linden: ok great, thanks for those questions Jacek
[16:00] McCabe Maxsted nods agreement to that
[16:00] Malbers Linden: Yeah, almost all problems we have now are multifaceted with experience design as one facet
[16:00] Benjamin Linden: alright folks, I have to run. thanks again for your participation
[16:00] Geneko Nemeth: Okay, seeya.
[16:00] Jacek Antonelli: Thanks for taking the time, Ben. Take care!
[16:00] Avatar Genira: bye Benj
[16:00] Malbers Linden: Yes, thanks for HUD and Big Space ship discussions
[16:00] Benjamin Linden: I guess we're reconvening officially again next month?
[16:00] Theodore Folsom: Byes ^^
[16:01] McCabe Maxsted: take care ben :)
[16:01] Benjamin Linden: I may try to pop in between now and then
[16:01] Squirrel Wood: Have a nice weekend ^^
[16:01] Benjamin Linden: just to check on you guys :-)
[16:01] Malbers Linden: Yep, we are now on our once-a-month scehdule
[16:01] Jacek Antonelli: Correct, Ben. But we'll still be having unofficial discussions here each week :D
[16:01] Geneko Nemeth: Cool then. So next week's topic?
[16:01] Benjamin Linden: ok cool, thanks Jacek
[16:01] Malbers Linden: I'm sure we'll be communicating in the SL-UX alias.
[16:01] Avatar Genira: so next week is out?
[16:01] Geneko Nemeth: Anyone have an idea on the topic, put it on the Wiki pages and/or in the mailing list!
[16:01] Benjamin Linden: take care everybody!
[16:02] Avatar Genira: pooff
[16:02] Squirrel Wood: name the wiki url ?
[16:02] Malbers Linden: we have something on the wiki already. Looking.....
[16:02] Jacek Antonelli: I've made a wiki page about the interest group. There's a link to a page for people to add topics -- https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User_Experience_Interest_Group
[16:02] Jacek Antonelli: Topics: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User_Experience_Interest_Group/Topics
[16:02] Avatar Genira: good i was waiting for that, do we have to register?
[16:02] Malbers Linden: oh crap. we already have this: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Resident_Experience
[16:03] Geneko Nemeth: Where do we put the logs though? On Malbers' page on the RXIG page?
[16:03] Malbers Linden: we'll have to make sure we have pointers back-and-forth
[16:03] Jacek Antonelli: No problem, Malbers
[16:03] Geneko Nemeth: Now where did I put that formatting script to?
[16:03] Jacek Antonelli: I'll post up today's transcript, by the way
[16:04] Malbers Linden: awesome. thanks Jacek
[16:04] Malbers Linden: thanks, as always, everyone. See you again soon. probably before a month from now.
[16:04] Squirrel Wood: ^^
[16:05] Pier Jaecies: bye
[16:05] Jacek Antonelli: Take care, Malbers :) Oh, and *hugs!* It's Hug a Malbers Day :D
[16:05] Avatar Genira: you mean 4 weeks
[16:05] Jacek Antonelli: Oops, to slow
[16:05] Esbee Linden: I should be on my way as well. Bye everyone. Thanks for a great meeting!
[16:05] McCabe Maxsted: hugs!
[16:05] Theodore Folsom: Byes
[16:05] Squirrel Wood: ^^
[16:05] Jacek Antonelli: Bye Esbee!
[16:05] Malbers Linden: hugs to all
[16:05] Malbers Linden: bye
[16:05] Avatar Genira: byes
[16:05] Aimee Trescothick waves
[16:05] Theo says: Get your Squirrelly Hand off my nosey.
[16:06] Theo says: Get your Squirrelly Hand off my nosey.
[16:06] Theo says: Aimee Trescothick Get your hand off my nosey or you will make it dirty!
[16:06] Squirrel Wood: So next week its the unofficial hour ^^
[16:06] Aimee Trescothick: heh, cute
[16:06] Male Equine - Tail: Get your Squirrelly Hand off my Tail.
[16:06] Jacek Antonelli: Yep!
[16:06] Theodore Folsom eeps!
[16:07] Avatar Genira: OK I was confused about that
[16:07] Pop Lubitsch: hey
[16:07] Avatar Genira: maybe we meet without Lindens
[16:07] McCabe Maxsted: yup! I'll see all of you next week :)
[16:07] Squirrel Wood: You must be one of them there...
[16:07] Squirrel Wood: new fangled....
[16:07] Squirrel Wood: queer-o-sexuals...
[16:07] Aimee Trescothick: it's officially unofficial
[16:07] McCabe Maxsted: topic will be: freebies for mccabe
[16:07] Jacek Antonelli: heh
[16:07] Squirrel Wood: ^^
[16:07] Avatar Genira: WHATEVER!
[16:07] Avatar Genira: WHATEVER!
[16:07] Theodore Folsom: *giggles*
[16:08] Avatar Genira: ***** How can I MISS you ~
[16:08] Avatar Genira: ***** If You WON'T go AWAY !! ~
[16:08] Theodore Folsom: o.o!
[16:08] Squirrel Wood: POKE!!!!
[16:08] McCabe Maxsted: hehe
[16:08] Theodore Folsom: AHH!!!!
[16:08] Theodore Folsom: let's go Squirs ^^
[16:09] Jacek Antonelli: Take care everyone! See you next week :)
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