User:Zai Lynch/Talkpage Archive 01

Welcome to my discussion page =)

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Some of the comments on this page are connected to my old page. It was moved on August 26th 2008. -- Lynch ^{(talk|contribs)} 23:34, 26 August 2008 (PDT)

Awesome wiki page!

I was browsing the Second Life wiki and came across your uploaded images, and followed them here. What a super example of using your wiki page to provide help and info! I really appreciate you having these editing instructions too. :) Keep it up, and thanx for linking to my Video Tutorials! Sounds like you have a lot of fun — the FREE HUGS piccie is just too cute. - Torley on 2008-02-25 @ 7:55 AM PST

wow... *blushes* Thank you very much! =) Hope to see you inworld some day to ask for a Torley teddy. The sightseeing subpage is still a work in progress but I hope to finish it in a not to distant future. Thumbs up for the Video Tutorials. They're great. Friendly greetings, --Zai Lynch 09:59, 26 February 2008 (PST)

Ooh, it gets even better! I like your video bar a lot! AWESOME... and Ffriendly greetings to you too! - Torley on 2008-05-05 @ 5:04 PM PST

Woot! Thx again ^^ Still missing a Torley Bear in my collection tho :-P Gotta have a look at one of your office hours some day. Greetz, Zai Lynch^{(talk|contribs)} 07:09, 6 May 2008 (PDT)

RE: How to have a discussion in a wiki

Well, I am unaware of how to do this, So if you are good at this style of reconstruction, feel free to do so. I am just a rookie at Wiki coding, so something is better then nothing....

You have the go-ahead to change if you wish it to be a discussable page.

Neovo. —The preceding unsigned comment was added on 06:09, 18. Jan. 2008 by Neovo Geesink

Don't worry =) Took me some time as well to figure it out. I'll look what i can do at the Q&A Page. Greetings, --Zai Lynch 01:05, 18 January 2008 (PST)

re: template: delete

Last time I brought this up with Rob, the policy is generally to not delete stuff.

However, it's been a while so you might want to poke Rob at his office hours

SignpostMarv Martin 11:11, 11 February 2008 (PST)

ok, THX =) I'll have a look if I'm able to convince him about the helpfulness of such a template. Greetings, --Zai Lynch 09:49, 12 February 2008 (PST)

I was referring more to actually deleting stuff, rather than using templates to request such deletion.

To memory, the only thing that was deleted (as opposed just blanking the article) was the wiki-coded version of the TOS (I'd ported it over intending it as a means of tracking changes in the TOS) because any differences in the TOS might cause legal issues. Though LL don't seem to mind the wiki-code version of the Community Standards document :-)

The only reason why an article shouldn't be deleted is attribution, or if one article is based off another.

I would suggest & support a system of requesting accidentally created articles to be deleted, as well as redirected articles that aren't used for disambiguation- Orientation Islander redirects to SignpostMarv Martin because they're both me for example, but articles that were moved/redirected because of typos or structure changes that aren't linked to any longer (might be wise to discuss a minimum time frame such an article stays around doing nothing).

SignpostMarv Martin 01:48, 13 February 2008 (PST)

I wasn't requesting Residents getting delete perms, it was just the issue of attribution being affected I think. You'd have to dive around the wiki somewhere, but I think the end result was stuff gets moved into a recycle bin pseudo-namespace, which is incredibly wasteful.

SignpostMarv Martin 07:09, 13 February 2008 (PST)

found it

SignpostMarv Martin 12:45, 14 February 2008 (PST)

re: VTeam

The reason the VTeam article was included as opposed to integrated into the category was to allow the VTeam the option of fleshing out the information at a later date.

Integrating the article either locks them in to the category (in my opinion, categories as articles are a borked concept), whereas with the templating system, sections of the article can be selectively included in the catgegory.

-SignpostMarv Martin 08:28, 19 May 2008 (PDT)

Yeah that sounds like a good idea once the article grew to a mentionable size so it wouldn't be included completly. When I stumbled upon it, I just feeled like having a déjà vu and was a little confused. I made this change since I assumed that others might feel the same way. So once the article becomes more then an introduction/summary which is completely mirrored by the category, I would totally agree that an include of the first summary lines would be best to handle it, since it's a very dynamic concept. I hope that will happen in a not to distant future (*plopp*) and I'd be glad if my edit would become reverted once this happened. THX for pokin' me to it =)

--Zai Lynch^{(talk|contribs)} 11:07, 19 May 2008 (PDT)

Videos?

No more videos on your page? :-(

O r l a 23:18, 19 June 2008 (PDT)

Aawww *snifflz* *hugz Orla*. I hope it's just temporarily tho. I noticed, that some browsers (still) got problems with the overflow, which results in my whole page beeing borked. I'm not entirely sure why it is, since it looks o.k. in case I just have a look at the subpage which I'm embedding. But as soon as I look at the embedded version, it's borked in one of my browsers. Maybe in others too... So I'll have to wait until I find a work-around. :-/

Kewl sig btw!

Greetz, --Zai Lynch^{(talk|contribs)} 05:54, 20 June 2008 (PDT)

Awwwwwww *rehugz*. Just noticed they are gone. Didn't notice any problems yet, using Opera and Firefox :D

O r l a 06:04, 20 June 2008 (PDT)

It's strange. Borked for me in Opera 9.27 (both, embedded and non-embedded), borked in FF3.0 (just when embedded), not borked in FF 2.0.0.14, borked in an IE on my Windowwwz... I don't know. Kuraiko tested it and said it would work for him in FF, IE and Opera. Watched it at 3 different PCs now with multiple browsers and some are able to handle it while others just avoid the scrollbar, displaying the whole page with a width of about 3000pixel or something. So that looks really ugly.

--Zai Lynch^{(talk|contribs)} 06:23, 20 June 2008 (PDT)

I'm using Opera 9.50 and the latest stable FF and not 3.0... :/

O r l a 06:28, 20 June 2008 (PDT)

I see... well, I'll need to think about a version which works in all (or most) of the current browsers so people don't get this ZOMG! WHAT IS DAT?!?-impression by clicking at my page (^_^) Will break my head about it during the upcoming 4hour car ride I'm starting in a few. Your page turned AWEZOMEZ btw =) Cyas In-World. *Hugz*

--Zai Lynch^{(talk|contribs)} 06:46, 20 June 2008 (PDT)

Thanks :D Cya *hugs* *waves*

O r l a 06:52, 20 June 2008 (PDT)

Hej Zai

antecedent discussion (1|2)

I agree with you about a inworld meeting. When you want for me it's ok. When you want send me a message, and I'll be there.

Regards—The preceding unsigned comment was added on 18:48, 26 June 2008 by Ideia Boa

OKies, I'll check back availability times of some people and announce a Wiki meeting for translation-guideline-related discussions for in about two weeks. I'll send you an inworld notecard / IM to let you know. =)

Greetz, Zai Lynch^{(talk|contribs)} 21:39, 26 June 2008 (PDT)

Tank you, I'll wait your message/IM, or post it here, ok?
Regards Ideia_Boa^{(talk|contribs)}written at 11:51, 28 June 2008

OK. Will do both, once it's scheduled --Zai Lynch^{(talk|contribs)} 16:33, 28 June 2008 (PDT)

Welcome to my discussion page

I've copy your "Welcome to my discussion page", I'll hope you permit. Regards Ideia_Boa^{(talk|contribs)}written at 12:48, 28 June 2008

I'm totally fine with it =) --Zai Lynch^{(talk|contribs)} 16:33, 28 June 2008 (PDT)

Template:Multi-Lang

21-07-2008 Zai, could you check the language on the GWA project pages? On the english page it won't load the german version somehow. Would you mind sending me your email addy to vollisa@xs4all.nl ? I am at work and can't login to SL here, but I can edit wiki pages. Might be easier then editing this. Thanks! Lisa :) Oh shoot.....now it works! Grrrrr —The preceding unsigned comment was added on 09:05, 21 July 2008 by Lisa Lowe

Hehe np (^_^) will send the mail nevertheless. The template is sometimes slow... Also updated the page just a lil. Greetz, --

Lynch ^{(talk|contribs)} 02:13, 21 July 2008 (PDT)

Message from Kahloon

I'm not sure what im actually doing here of if this wille ven come out, hmm juz treat this as an experiment and may b a start of sumthin more profound, like yeah Ami ;-).--Kahloon Saphir 15:26, 8 September 2008 (PDT)

Awww TY for the comment, sweetz (^_^) uhm... Ami? ^^ *hugs*

Lynch ^{(talk|contribs)} 06:28, 9 September 2008 (PDT)

About your LSL function/de

Hello Zai ^^!! I have noticed you update all your functions page (+"/de" to function’s categories). You can also use the Asuka's option in the function template : {{#if:{{{cat1|}}}|[[Category:LSL {{{cat1}}}{{#var:lang}}]]}} It will be easier to apply.Gally Young 05:55, 23 September 2008 (PDT)

Heyas! =)

Yuss, I thought about it after I updated some of the pages - and I also thought that the template would already act that way - but it's both a temporarily solution at the moment. I will need to update the templates to fit the revised Project:Languages guidelines. So we'd get Category:LSL Sicherheit instead of Category:LSL Security/de, for example. I'll put it on my growing to-do-list (^_^)

I'm also trying to localize our help templates since the German one finally works. I was wondering if you could have a look at the French version(s). Either here or directly at the templates. In case you choose the later way, try to translate the German one instead of the English, since there are some changes in the code

Greetz =)

Lynch ^{(talk|contribs)} 06:00, 23 September 2008 (PDT)

Time Stamp Problem

Hello Zai,

I was trying to fix double redirects, and updated the list of the double redirects, but then suddenly articles where missing. I looked at the recent changes, and saw you updated them a while ago. Do you know if it's normal for this list to update strangely (Non-logical order, delayed) ? Timothy Dryke 08:08, 25 September 2008 (PDT)

Heyas!

I updated the double redirects after you made your initial edits, so this list isn't delayed. But there is another problem with Wiki timestamps, causing timeshifts in the recent changes and history pages. Have a look at WEB-793 for a description of the issue. It's quite funny to edit pages before they are even created (^_^)

Greetz =)

Lynch ^{(talk|contribs)} 07:57, 25 September 2008 (PDT)

P.S.: This is a nice example of how the bug looks like. I answered your question before you asked it. See timestamps and history.

Lynch ^{(talk|contribs)} 08:05, 25 September 2008 (PDT)

Yes, I noticed that it completely messed up. Do you have an idea when and if this gets fixed? Timothy Dryke 09:18, 25 September 2008 (PDT)

I think it might depend on how many votes, watchers and comments the issue will get in the Jira. Currently, it has only two votes. And Wiki Jiras aren't very popular. So I don't have high hopes that this will happen fast... --

Lynch ^{(talk|contribs)} 09:16, 25 September 2008 (PDT)

Added my own vote to it aswell. Is there a way to give it more attention, so people know about this so they can vote?

Timothy Dryke 10:53, 25 September 2008 (PDT)

Hm... can advertise it in your friends list or visit one of Rob Lindens office hours to ask him about it. I don't know if there is a bug triage for web stuff...

Lynch ^{(talk|contribs)} 11:00, 25 September 2008 (PDT)

Multi language

Another question, cause you also seem to translate articles. I made this translation How to change your appearance/nl And added {{Multi-lang}} to it. However only the German and Spanish version link to this. Do you know how to fix this? Timothy Dryke 09:18, 25 September 2008 (PDT)

Yes, the wiki is caching pages, so Template:Multi-lang needs some time to display the new link at the English page. But you can *poke* the article to recognize the change. Just go to the English page (or any other which isn't displaying the change), press "edit" and then press "save" without changing anything. This won't be displayed in the edit history but it will force the page to cache a new version (and therefor recognize the new article).

However, there have been changes in Project:Languages recently. So you can move the article to a spot with a Dutch article name instead of English_Name/nl, using English_Name/nl for a redirect. I also added Template:Help/nl to the article which includes Template:Multi-lang, a header and registers the article to certain categories.

Greetz,

Lynch ^{(talk|contribs)} 09:11, 25 September 2008 (PDT)

When translating certain words (Like Shape and Skin) to Dutch, it just sounds odd. I'm certain that it's the correct translation but it just doesn't seem to fit, probably cause I got used to the English version. Do you have the same problem when translating? and what do you do with it? (wiki needs a message system :P )

Timothy Dryke 10:53, 25 September 2008 (PDT)

Yeah we got the same problem... So for German translations, we got a style guide and glossary which helps us to unify the translations. The Second Life viewer also has a German speaking user interface (UI) so all translations need to be unified / synchronized with the UI. Tom32 Anatine created a web interface for the German speaking Linguists in order to organize and forward suggestions for changes in the current glossary. Unfortunatly, a glossary or UI isn't available for the Dutch language. I'm not sure if this will change, but you can ask Danica Linden - who is the localization Manager of Linden Lab - if there are plans to start a glossary for Dutch people. Otherwise, make a poll and ask a few Dutch friends what they think about certain translations or if they think that those need to be translated at all. I personally don't think that every word needs to be translated. For example a HUD - Heads Up Display - doesn't need to become a KHA - Kopf Hoch Anzeige - or something similar. In case everything fails: Just translate it the way it feels right for you =) Other people can still change it.

And yeah, a Wiki Shoutbox would be kewl ^^ Or ping me inworld when I'm around

Greetz,

Lynch ^{(talk|contribs)} 11:00, 25 September 2008 (PDT)

SLURL page style reversion

Zai, first off, I REALLY appreciate your continued enhancement of this wiki. Your contributions have been prolific and amazing!

Second, I reverted most of the style changes you made to SLURL because while boxes can help organization, it can also look cluttered (not really the case here), but more importantly, it's not well-suited for most wiki pages and hard for others to keep consistent. It's also a touch harder for newcomers to edit due to the extra code — not a big concern, but generally, I lean away from boxes unless the info clearly benefits from being in a table- or grid-like formation.

If you're using a special WYSIWYG-like editor tho, do let me know. I haven't found one that works to my satisfaction... yet.

You have great ideas re: thumbnails (which I'll apply to some future pages as-needed) and spotted stuff I missed, so I'll include those. Thanx and keep on keeping on! - Torley on 2008-10-13 @ 10:02 AM PST

Heyas! =)

No worries, I'm not taking the revert personal (^_^). I'm just not quite understanding some of the reasons. So I don't think they looked cluttered or that the design wouldn't be well suited for most wiki pages (e.g. almost all LSL Portal related articles got a similar format). What I can understand is the last point mentioned: It's harder for newcomers to edit. I was worried about that too... Especially when I had to get rid of the edit sections, since my anchor templates (h2 & h3) are messing with their order. I haven't yet been able to figure out a way on how to avoid that...

So why am I formatting pages like this although it makes it harder for editors?

We can write the best and most useful manuals ever, but very few people are going to read them in case they look either cluttered, messy or confusing. So we will loose potential readers even before they read the first sentence and figured that the presented information could be useful. Therefor - from my point of view -, a good page needs to look attention drawing/intersting/sexy and clean. That might even make people read an article although they think to already know what it is about. (E.g. which article might attract more readers, this or that?)

So when does an article have the mentioned abilities?

That is a hard question since it relates to personal preferences... And mine seem to differ from yours. I think that huge elements (e.g. pictures and videos in regular youtube size) make a page harder to read and decrease their sexyness (I call it the MySpace-phenomenon). Try to also have a look at them at smaller resolution screens (e.g. 1024x768 or even 800x600). Once you scrolled to a picture that fills 3/4 of your screen, it will instantly break the reading flow. So I'm more of a less-is-more person in that case.

Boxes gave me the impression that they are a simple style element which almost instantly makes a page look cleaner/more professional. I'm not writing that to push "my" style over yours. It's not even "mine". I mimicked it from Lum, who likely mimicked it from Strifes or Marvs contributions. I write it since I really believe it pushes the readability of a page. Eyecandy is important (for the reason I mentioned above). And the readers concerns (readability) is more important than the editors (easy editability).

@Consistency: I was hoping to have this boxed style at all Help Portal related articles once they are somehow "finished". So the first article in that style (which is still unfinished) is the Group article. That was the style I hoped all related articles could have (Sidenote: Hover your mouse above the [KB] links to get the title of the KB article ^^). How to open a box looks the same way now. So that is the main reason why I'm writing this lengthy comment, since I would like to apply that design to all articles on our to-do list. I'm not sure how to formulate this in English so it doesn't sound like bitching (please bear with my language skills) but I would need to know if I should keep that goal or not. Since I wouldn't want to spent the time on it in case it's likely to become reverted afterwards. Don't get me wrong: I will continue to contribute to these when I find the time. The question is just, in which way.

@WYSIWYG: no, I don't know any... So the code is all written "by hand". I'm collecting useful code snippets by looking at other peoples contributions and am trying to implement these in mine in case they fit. Some of the snippets are part of my Sandbox so I can browse there and just copy and paste. I once thought about adding some kind of "Editors Toolbox" to the Quickie Wiki Intro article so other editors could benefit from that too.

TY for the feedback =)

Greetz,

Lynch ^{(talk|contribs)} 06:28, 14 October 2008 (PDT)

Zai, well-explained, and I appreciate you taking the time to articulate this too — so that leads me to wondering (I haven't investigated yet) if we can make the wiki's own base style look more appealing, thus including those benefits without having to add a lot of code? Similar principle: improving a CSS stylesheet instead of having to manually add styling to a blog post.

(As you likely already know, we can change this wiki's skin in our profile. But, few people know about that, and it's user-specific — not everyone sees the change.)

Hee, it's kind of funny that I noticed an old comment by Lum which was in boxes!

I wish images on Mediawiki were link-clickable but that's another confusing, unintuitive little thing.

Re: clutter, in the SLURL article, no, it wasn't really a problem. But too many boxes on the front page (if we were to keep adding more) leads to link paralysis (newcomers not being able to find what they're looking for, since it looks like a wall of text ads) and doesn't improve optical flow.

Re: picture sizes, I tend to use thumbnails if they can't be shown with clarify at a reasonable size, like 500 px wide. Otherwise, I leave them if directly important to the content of the article, to avoid extra clicking. (Someone can just scroll past them as-needed.)

Re: overall style, I mostly recommend: do what Wikipedia.org does for most of its well-presented articles. I'd prefer and suggest "less boxes/tables/separator lines" unless it's really key to presenting content, like this. There is no one right way but I don't want you to go through a lot of trouble if there are easier ways to beautify.

Don't worry about sounding like bitching, you're extremely polite and I treasure your observations and insights.

User:Zai Lynch/Talkpage Archive 01

Welcome to my discussion page =)

Contents

Awesome wiki page!

RE: How to have a discussion in a wiki

re: template: delete

re: VTeam

Videos?

Hej Zai

Welcome to my discussion page

Template:Multi-Lang

Message from Kahloon

About your LSL function/de

Time Stamp Problem

Multi language

SLURL page style reversion

Navigation menu

Search